Help a brother in need.

Dreesy · 2015-10-17T16:36:32+00:00

I suggest doing nothing. This is something that he has to figure out himself, its a personal journey. It sounds like he's piecing it together himself, slowly, and hes experiencing some of the grief stages. This is where he will either keep pushing, or give in and completely slide backwards.

Wallaby-wacker · 2015-10-17T15:07:03+00:00

I have a friend, he's mostly MGTOW but he doesn't know it yet.

And we start off with assumptions and pigeonholing, dis gonna be gud.

He carries a lot of frustration on his shoulders because he can see all the corruption (namely with the government, and falsely with 'capitalism'),

Capitalism has a lot of problems that need working out. Maybe your friend is just a socialist/communist thinker where economics is concerned. Governments are inherently burdensome and corrupt but thats been true since they were invented.

but I think he doesn't have any clarity (and this is the source of his frustration/depression) because I think he swallows a lot of blue pill ideas.

Theres a lot of vagueness here.

He thinks he needs to fix the world before he can be happy... (He would have become be a prime SJW if he wasn't so smart and they weren't so repulsive.) rather than fix himself, find his own happiness, and lead by example.

Maybe fixing the world is what he wants to do? Perhaps he doesnt see the problem as being internal or he sees the external problems as more easily fixed. Not everyone is a leader by nature or has the desire to lead.

So how can I pull him into the light?

Dragging someone "into the light" of going their own way seems really counter-intuitive and cult like.

I don't know, but I think he still harbours a lot of gynocentric thinking. I don't know enough about him, but I suspect he's had a strong female presence in his upbringing, perhaps an abusive mother, or a beta father that was able to collude with the gynocentric method of raising boys (beat them into submission), which has drilled into him a philosophy of self-sacrifice for other people is the goal to your happiness. (which of course, is not working for him).

Thats a fuck ton of assumption to follow "I dont know enough about him".

The root cause is all speculation, but the reason why I tell you this, is that it might be too early for him to receive any anti-feminism wisdom, as his programming will cause him to reject it and not look at it with any reason or critical thought.

Then you shouldn't be pushing philosophies onto him. If youre not comfortable with having uncomfortable conversations with your friend then youre in absolutely no position to try and sell him mgtow.

Theres also nothing wise about being an anti feminist any more than being an atheist/anti theist means youre a skeptic or even intelligent.

He thinks that selfishness is what caused all the problems. He might not be entirely wrong.

Hes not, but enlightened self interest is a natural and universal trait with lots of positives.

But MGTOW is inherently selfish, so I see a fundamental problem here in trying to convince him that being selfish is actually going to make him happier.

Will it really? Maybe he's the kind of guy who wants what we reject. Have you ever spoken to him about your position on these subjects because that's step one in any scheme.

I want to send him some kind of video that will lift the heavy shackles he is carrying on his shoulders... that he has been programmed to be this way, and his frustration is coming from a deep but subconscious desire to break through the programming, if only I can pull him out.

You know how many therapists it takes to change a light bulb? One, but the light bulb has to want to change. I dont think you know enough about this person to be making such drastic plans to modify his behavior.

What should I do? Can you recommend a good youtube video that will hit the nail on the head?

How could we know what he needs when you dont know enough about him to even accurately describe his living situation or parental connections?

thrownaway_MGTOW · 2015-10-17T20:38:53+00:00

Sounds like he's a fairly "intellectual" guy -- in which case some youtube video is probably NOT the way to go.

Instead, I'd suggest a book -- probably Ayn Rand's "The Virtue of Selfishness", and possibly "The New Left: The Anti-Industrial Revolution" and especially the essay in the latter named "The Comprachicos" -- either or both of which can usually be picked up ridiculously cheap (at least in the US) in the old trade paperback editions at some used bookstore.

Now you may not even have to BUY those and "foist" them off on them -- if I'm right in analyzing what you've said about him you might even just be able to ask him (especially if you ask him in writing of some form, whether email or text message, etc -- i.e. something he can refer back to, rather than a voice conversation that is likely to be forgotten) if he's ever heard of or read those books (or that essay), and if so... what he thought about them.

He'll probably go dig them up himself. (And indeed the "Comprachicos" essay is at least available in bits and pieces online, I think there's even a PDF version.)

I'd also note that one doesn't have to agree 100% with what Rand says in that essay or the other essays in those books in order to have them significantly affect the way that one looks at (and thinks about) the world.

The problem of course is that the word "selfish" is conflated and these days generally comes fully-loaded with a host of additional meanings that are NOT necessarily required: to with "selfishness" is generally seen as combined with a sort of "unbridled greed", both for money, power, fame, etc -- a sort of combination of "infinite avararice" and "unlimited ambition". But of course many people who seek those things are in fact NOT necessarily so "selfish" at all, in seeking "fame" they are often exhibiting a need to impress and receive validation (and how!) from others; and it is self-less (a negation of self, dismissal of pride, etc) in that it often includes submitting to a host of humiliations (say a male actor donning a dress and appearing "in drag", or doing "nude" scenes, and so on) that are contrary (and possibly damaging) to their own morals, ethics or self-image, but which they endure under the rubric that it is necessary to become "popular".

Or of course there is the example of the PUA's -- who are willing to (and at least attempt to) "reshape" their behavior, appearance, dress, physique, etc -- all to appeal to what they think women "really" want. Is that really selfish?

From one perspective it is -- they are after all simply seeking sexual gratification for themselves, to obtain access (however fleeting) to "pussy" (however sloppy or used or low value), and generally other than "gaming" the female into compliance, they really don't give a shit about her.

But on the other hand they are ALTERING, modifying, even discarding their very "self" to do achieve that... in essence selling themselves into a prolonged "slavery" (including not a small amount of time and money) in order to gratify someone else, to "appear appealing" to a subset of females. In that sense, is there anything LESS "selfish"... or MORE "self-negating" and thus "self-less"?

TheRealMewt · 2015-10-17T22:51:29+00:00

I have a friend

Stopped reading right there.

It's very noble of you for wanting to look after your mates, but as the late great Michael Jackson once said "if you want to make the world a better place, take a look at yourself and make a change". Others must want change for themselves and change brought on by other forces is just going to lead to resistance and resentment.

oldredder · 2015-10-19T08:49:02+00:00

You can't force the red pill to anyone. It's invisible to those who aren't ready for it.

Title	Help a brother in need.
Author	Im_Justin_Cider
Upvotes	3
Comments	5
Date	October 17, 2015 2:46 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/3p46tm/help_a_brother_in_need/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW/help-a-brother-in-need.640778 https://theredarchive.com/post/640778

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