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This basically questioning Allah which in Islam is one of the worst things u can do,so no u are not muslim

MrDomNaai

August 25, 2019

25 upvotes

/r/MGTOW

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Title	This basically questioning Allah which in Islam is one of the worst things u can do,so no u are not muslim
Author	MrDomNaai
Upvotes	25
Comments	40
Date	August 25, 2019 7:12 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/cvcs3u/this_basically_questioning_allah_which_in_islam/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW/this-basically-questioning-allah-which-in-islam-is.405963 https://theredarchive.com/post/405963

Comments

[–]tower-rounder 18 points19 points20 points 6 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Trollileo1237 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Trollileo1230 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Trollileo1230 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]den-kun0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]EndTimesMartyr0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]countinginsolitude8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]reinaldo8665 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

God's word ≠ Man made rules.

Ignorant muslims not even understanding their own "religion".

I've read the Quran and there isn't a single commandment by "God"/"Allah" and commands women to wear clothes to cover her hair, NOT A SINGLE VERSE which is commanded by God.

Women were told by other men to cover themselves to hide their beauty from other men/tribes/empires to avoid being raped and taken as war prizes, it was then when women were told to cover themselves.

Ignorant Muslims taking the word of "Mohammed" as the holy word instead of "a guide", you are as bad as Christians following Jesus as a mean of salvation.

Also, read the damn qoran and do not read the fucking "sunnah", Qoran says by God's word, "do not kill", Sunnahs (mohammed biography) says "Kill all those who are not muslims", who are you going to obey stupid muslims, God or the prophet? Follow God, don't follow men.

If only people used their damn brain when reading theological stuff we'd have a better place, but nah, people read a single line and take it as a commandment directly sent by heaven.

Sadly the woman is right, the veil thing is forced, it had its usage back in the days, nowadays people are not "raping" muslims just to take over and conquer some land and you just "prevent it" by wearing a jihab, american soldiers will rape you regardless of your dressing code, didn't it happen in Iraq?

[–]EndTimesMartyr1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

NOT A SINGLE VERSE

I’ve read the Quran

You have no idea what your talking about. No offense but this is just a rant with a lot of false ideas.

All the women of the time(Prophet and the companions wives wore it) it wasn’t invested out of thin air. Even orthodox Jewish women wear a complete veil essentially the same.

There are four verses in the Quran. And you’ll lose count of how many in the hadiths. And I see you mentioned that hadiths aren’t important, when in reality a Muslim would be rejecting the Quran if they do not follow/believe in the hadiths.

“And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer palms of hands or one eye or dress like veil, gloves, headcover, apron), and to draw their veils all over Juyoobihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands (al-Noor 24:31)

When Allah revealed the words “and to draw their veils all over Juyoobihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms)”, they tore the thickest of their aprons (a kind of garment) and covered their faces with them. (Abu Dawood 4102)

“And as for women past childbearing who do not expect wedlock, it is no sin on them if they discard their (outer) clothing in such a way as not to show their adornment. But to refrain (i.e. not to discard their outer clothing) is better for them. And Allah is All‑Hearer, All‑Knower” (al-Noor 24:60)

“...And when you ask (his wives) for anything you want, ask them from behind a screen, that is purer for your hearts and for their hearts...” (al-Ahzaab 33:53)

“O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful” (al-Ahzaab 33:59)

[–]reinaldo8660 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Even orthodox Jewish women wear a complete veil essentially the same.

No, what they do is they cover their hair or use a wig, I've never seen a jewish woman covering her full face, I bet there must be some group that does it, but that must be like 1%

There are four verses in the Quran. And you’ll lose count of how many in the hadiths. And I see you mentioned that hadiths aren’t important, when in reality a Muslim would be rejecting the Quran if they do not follow/believe in the hadiths.

The Sunnah is the life is Mohammed, so it's a record of all the actions he made in his life, a biography, so if God says "Do not kill innocent people", how come Mohammed later killed everyone who wasn't a muslim? He killed jews, christians, everything... so was he following God's word? You see... one of the big differences between the muslim hipocrisy that other religions is that other religions accept that their prophets were unperfect. Jews acknowledge that Solomon and other prophets committed mistakes, Christians know that Judas out of the twelve disciples betrayed Jesus, Catholic acknowledge that the Church has been long infiltrated by homosexuals and pedophiles, that's why there are protestants, you see? this is called "Heresy", questioning or judging a common belief.

For muslims mohammed was perfect, he did no mistake, you guys don't even dare to question his actions, that's what makes it a cult

Another thing about your loved Sunnah, did you know that the Jews also have something similar? Torah = Quran. Sunnahs = Talmud.

The Torah and the Quran say "do not kill", "do not steal".... but then the Sunnas say "hey kill those fucking infidels because I Mohammed say so", and then the Talmud says things like "It's okay for 2 Jews to kill and steal from a Christian as long as they split the loot".

So.... tell me, do you have a fucking functioning brain to think by yourself or are you just another stupid fuck that follows Islam without questioning it?

Also, let's not forget how the Islam has this hidden philosophy that women should only look pretty for their husband at home, yet if you go to any Muslim country you'll see women using (not even properly, just put it in their head) the Jihab that reveals everything and I've seen some semi-transparent ones and their faces are full of makeup, they use big earrings (which as far as I know are not allowed in Islam) and they have their arm full of garnets.

Also let's not forget that Muslims pray in direction to Mecca, because according to your own religion was the place of birth of Mohammed, but in certain point in history that Mecca was full of idols that he confiscated from everyone and the new "so-called" muslims continued to pray to a house full of idols.

I mean your religion lacks so much sense when you compare it to other religions that it makes me think you are either in a cult or you are literally worshiping the devil.

Muslims are the only ones who "pray" in a specific direction, when Jews had their holy temple built in a place and had the presence of their God INSIDE of it, yet Jews do not pray in a direction facing Israel because God almighty is everywhere, from South America to Siberia, Catholics think that the entrance of heaven is the Vatican because Jesus said something like "And let this stone be my church and it will guard the doors of heaven" and that's where the Vatican is nowadays and people still reject the wrongdoings of the Pope.

When God gave people free will he also gave them logic, reason and the ability to differentiate between right and wrong.

May I ask you this: Do you find acceptable that a man over 40 years old has sex with a 9 years old girl? and Catholics and Christians are not far away from it, Joseph was round 50 when he was already engaged with Mary the virgin who had (14) but they didn't have intercourse after the had Jesus, they had sex when she was already 15, not very legal nowadays right? If you cannot differentiate right from wrong, good from evil you are not a person of God.

Also: And as for women past childbearing who do not expect wedlock, it is no sin on them if they discard their (outer) clothing in such a way as not to show their adornment. But to refrain (i.e. not to discard their outer clothing) is better for them. And Allah is All‑Hearer, All‑Knower. This verse means it's entirely optional for a single mother to wear the veil.

"draw their veils all over Juyoobihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands" Something they do not do, I had a relationship with a crazy cult following muslim woman, she always wanted to follow the Quran, ended up doing the opposite, tit jobs, makeup for going out, but then when she came back home she'd put a black veil and pray to "allah"

O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies, That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. THEY SHOULD BE KNOWN THEY SHOULD BE SHOULD. <--- should is a recommendation, not mandatory.

I was raised in a catholic family, the kind that has images and statues of "Mary the Virgin" at home, one day I read a Catholic Bible I bought in a Church, as I was reading I read many of the things that we shouldn't do, Idolatry was one of them, I threw mine to the trash and started doing things correctly even though I know the Bible has been heavily modified, but I don't take it as a literal word from Yahweh to me, I merely take it as a guide and try to do what I think is morally right without harming others, and that's how I decide to take my Godly life, I'm far from perfect I'll admit, but I am not the kind of crazy fuck that goes around killing spree because "hey the bible says that I think we should kill faggots because two men cannot sleep together", even though I dislike homosexuality I just mind my own business, is that hard for Muslims to do? just fucking mind your own business and refrain from doing evil acts like killing, raping, murdering? even if Mohammed did commit them, be yourself.

Another reason why I highly dislike islam is becaues in the Torah/Old testament/bible God says "Emulate my ways" (some Jewish translations say try to be like God, like in a pure heart/mind), he commands people to be as merciful, as forgiving. The Bible tells you you should TRY to be as good as God, and I say "try" because no human will be as perfect, but you know it's a nice message for people, meanwhile muslims try to emulate the life of Muhammed, a warlord who conquered a lot of land and spread his religion by force and had sex with a 9 years old girl and had no mercy with his enemies.

Which one sounds better? Not only on paper and theory but in practice?, and keep in mind, I'm not criticizing "Islam" itself, I'm criticizing Muslims for not following the book properly, but I don't even know why I'm writing all this, the same Bible says that Israel neighbors will never live in peace

[–]EndTimesMartyr0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for the reply.

I've never seen a jewish woman covering her full face, I bet there must be some group that does it

Agreed. It’s called a Frumka, and you’re right it’s a small minority. It is worn by the ultra-orthodox Jewish women(I didn’t say all, I said orthodox) So we’re both right on this minor point.

It’s not just the his life, but his commands. The Quran didn’t just fall out of the sky, it took over the course of 23 years to reveal. And the Quran itself is more about the stories of the Prophets and the purpose of life and the signs of Allah, although there are some direct commandments/laws in it. That being said the Quran itself very explicitly makes it clear to follow Muhammad(SAW) over and over again. If a person believes in the Quran, they also have to believe that anything he says is also revelation in itself. We believe he was physically incapable of speaking from his own desires/whims(the angel Gabriel didn’t come to him only in the cave but when he was a young boy as well). (The few times he did say something wrong without knowledge, he was given the knowledge and made the correction which there are examples).

And also we believe the Prophets we free of major sins, not minor sins(which can be as simple as giving wrong advice). According to the Bible some of the Prophets have committed murder, adultery, and along with other major sins which should raise some red flags 🚩

The whole point of messengers that the Creator sent was to be an example and teach the people straying from the correct path. You’re tell me that God would send messengers who can’t even deliver their message properly?? LOL

We have “heresy” as well because Islam does have sects to an extent.

God says “Do not kill innocent people”

Are you referring to “killing one person is like killing all of mankind”?

The Creator doesn’t only say not to kill people. That would be misleading because there are instances it is necessary/permissible. Not just in Islam btw.

God also says eating pork is forbidden. But that it is permissible in some situations.

When it comes to the issue of killing/violence, it’s not black and white. One extreme are the people who say Islam is peace and the other extreme is people like you who make it sound like he was a warmonger(about 1000 total casualties), sure there were battles(not even wars) that he approved/commanded:

From Wikipedia

There are certain directives of the Qur’an pertaining to war which were specific only to Muhammad against Divinely specified peoples of his times (the polytheists and the Israelites and Nazarites of Arabia and some other Jews, Christians, et al.) as a form of Divine punishment—for they had persistently denied the truth of Muhammad's mission even after it had been made conclusively evident to them by Allah through Muhammad, and asked the polytheists of Arabia for submission to Islam as a condition for exoneration and the others for jizya and submission to the political authority of the Muslims for military protection as the dhimmis of the Muslims. Therefore, after Muhammad and his companions, there is no concept in Islam obliging Muslims to wage war for propagation or implementation of Islam, hence now, the only valid reason for war is to end oppression when all other measures have failed. (jihad)[52][53]

Islam isn’t a religion of “peace” although peace is part of it (And btw neither are the other two Abrahamic faiths which have several even more violent verses than the Quran)

I can see how truth comes across a cult. No problem with calling it that. I know many Muslims don’t question it, so you have a valid point, but the learned people do look at it all, but yes never questioning the authority.

So.... tell me, do you have a f——— functioning brain to think by yourself or are you just another stupid f—- that follows Islam without questioning it?

Actually in my case, looking into all the “controversial” stuff about Islam is what made me believe it is the truth. And instead of name calling(although I understand your point), you should at the least admit you were completely off the mark about the “hijab” not being in the Quran, “not a single verse”

The Torah and the Quran say "do not kill", "do not steal".... but then the Sunnas say "hey kill those fucking infidels because I Mohammed say so"

It literally gives the direct command in the Quran(for that time). This is a favorite of Anti-Muslims, you should know this.

let's not forget how the Islam has this hidden philosophy that women should only look pretty for their husband at home, yet if you go to any Muslim country you'll see women using (not even properly, just put it in their head) the Jihab that reveals everything and I've seen some semi-transparent ones and their faces are full of makeup, they use big earrings (which as far as I know are not allowed in Islam) and they have their arm full of garnets.

I agree 100%. What’s your point? It’s not a hidden philosophy, it directly says that in the Quran/Sunnah. There is no Sharia Law today so it’s not surprising over time basics of religion will decrease especially when the secular rulers “modernize” and westernize the Muslim world.

Also let's not forget that Muslims pray in direction to Mecca, because according to your own religion was the place of birth of Mohammed, but in certain point in history that Mecca was full of idols that he confiscated from everyone and the new "so-called" muslims continued to pray to a house full of idols.

Muslims used to pray to Jerusalem at first. Then switched to the House Abraham built. It’s literally just a direction. There has to be a direction otherwise everyone just prays in random directions. When we do “Du’a” which is praying(but not “salat” bowing/prostration) the direction doesn’t matter at all. This addresses your other paragraph as well. We don’t ask God in a specific direction. You have decent comparative religion knowledge but you don’t seem to understand Islam.

I mean your religion lacks so much sense when you compare it to other religions that it makes me think you are either in a cult or you are literally worshiping the devil.

If you actually brought up some points then I’d be able to counter this. Just emotions...what doesn’t make sense, the “violence”? “Women’s rights”? Hahahaha

[–]reinaldo8660 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You have decent comparative religion knowledge but you don’t seem to understand Islam

When I was dating this muslim crazy bitch, I made a "muslim" conversion because she wanted me to do the things in the right way, so I went to a Mosque and I spoke with some guy who was from Saudi Arabia and they made read a sentense in Arab, they gave 2 copies of the Quran, one in Spanish one in Arabic, and a sort of "guide", I was reading it and there were many things I was already doing and many others I agreed, however she once said a few things I did not agree 1. Those who do not pray in Arabic go to hell Ok, what about her own mother? my mother? her sisters? is everyone going to hell? 2. She did not speak a single word of Arabic and yet she used to scream in a few learnt sentences in arabic, "Inshallah" was one of them I know what they mean, in fact we have a borrowed word from Arabic into Spanish (Due Caliphate invading southern Spain) 3. For her everyone who wasn't following Islam was a sinner 4. I saw many people join Islam not because they had faith or were seeking spitirual guidanse, but rather because they needed money 5. I was 21 at the time and I remember this kid in a mosque asking me, "Are you a muslim?", I said "Now, I suppose", he asked me if I knew the Quran, I said "Not yet, but I'll finish reading it some day", his answer was a little bit upset "Then you're not a real Muslim!, a real muslim knows the Quran by memory, it's printed in your heart!!". Keep in mind, THIS KID WAS A FUCKING WAYUU (Native indigenous people from North-West Venezuela) 6. I really tried believing all the bullshit of Mohammed and his story, I really did, but keep in mind I was "raised" catholic, my faith is judaism, and now I was trying to "enter into this new islamic thing" fooling myself with "well... it's just judaism 3.0" (judaism 2.0 being catholicism/christianism), but there were things I could not believe, I just didn't have any faith in them, for me Quran was nothing but an arabic tale, guess what this crazy bitch and one of her friend messaged me? "DO YOU KNOW THE PUNISHMENT FOR ABANDONING ISLAM IS DEATH?"

5 years later, away from that crazy fuck and that cult what do you think I think about that religion?, also the bunch of lies you guys are told by the schoolars, I remember she told me this one.... "Did you know that some Jews eat cookies made with Christian flesh as a part of their rituals?" (I guess she was refering to Mitz'bar), now... do you comprehend why I say your religion is nothing but a cheap copy of Judaism made into a cult?

This is not something someone else told me, this is what I witnessed by having actual contact with Muslims and trying to join that religion... like REALLY? Jews are evil greedy and evil that they make human cookies with Christians flesh? what was next? Jews got Jesus killed to make some cookies? this is the kind of crazy shit I was told by Muslims

Islam is a trojan horse in western society, even though I agree with many of the basic shits Islam preaches, I take YOUR society as a moral compass of what WE need.

No Islamic country in the middle east has a somewhat "safe" country. If I had to pick a country to move in besides USA/Canada/Europe I would pick Israel or Japan, just take a look what religious fanatism does to YOUR societies.

Palestine: Failure Syria: Failure Iraq: Uber Failure Iran: Becoming Failure (Even though I understand that what is leading Iran to a doom isn't Islam itself but the "Islamic Regime" that wants to become a Persian Empire 2.0) Saudi Arabia: Failure with a royal family with the country's wealth in their pockets and the pockets of their over 10k "princes" Yemen: Total failure Pakistan: Once Hindu, now Islamic failure Afghanistan: Once Buddhist, now Islamic failure Han Chineses: From poor communists to rich capitalist assholes South-Western China: Poor muslims with non-functional society Turkey: Once a secular country with liberties, until Uncle Herdogam came and is destroying its currency and the Kurds Chechenia (Southern Russian state): Once one of their warlords went to Russia and killed 300 people in a school and have bombed Russian civilian trains more than once, and who lives better? oh yeah, people from Russia & Moscow Somalia: This is not even a Failure, this is an abyss

you see now? in the west we have slutty women, faggots, transfaggots, but at least we have managed to build roads, we have built laws and made courts following some religious values, did you know that most of the western political/judicial systems are based on the Romanistic System? (Roman empire), and the Roman Empire built many of its values based on Judeo-Christian values, we've inherited all that crap, and we as a society, even with all our mistakes we have functioning countries.

Take a look at the "worst western" countries, Mexico, Colombia, Venezuela, Brazil, you know the classic "catholic and corrupt", at least these countries have functioning societies where you can preach your religion in public without being decapitated, can I go to Iran & Saudi Arabia and bring a catholic Bible and open a Church? We both know what would happen to us

One last thing, watch this guy, he says everything the west feels for Islam: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9ZSII3qADI

[–]EndTimesMartyr1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with a lot of what you said. There is plenty of hypocrisy from those in power and the Muslim people. I am with you on that.

⁠Those who do not pray in Arabic go to hell Ok, what about her own mother? my mother? her sisters? is everyone going to hell?

The Prophet Muhammad’s (SAW) said that both his own mother and father would be in hell. And he would weep about it and ask God for them(especially his mother) to be forgiven and admitted into paradise. But the Creator made it clear that kufr(disbelief) is unforgivable. And people who identify as Muslim can fall into kufr despite saying “La ilaha ilAllah Muhammadur rasool Allah.” Many people who come across as “Muslims” meaning they were born Muslim, if they are not practicing and pray 5 times a day etc, then they may be no different than Jews, Christians, other disbelievers. In fact, I believe that people who were given Islam(and didn’t practice it)are to be given double the punishment of the disbelievers.

Now I can see how Muslims make it seem as though they will all be in heaven and everyone else will be in hell but this is far from reality. We shouldn’t try to judge others belief, but it is clear that not praying, taking loans, backbiting, zina, music etc are things that many who identify as “Muslim” take part in...so it doesn’t matter what our “status” is on Earth based on other people. Only the Creator knows our true intention. So the same thing that would happen to a convert, assuming Islam is the right religion, will very well happen to many Muslims(meaning family members in hell etc)

In addition, this idea of most people going into the hellfire is not just in Islam:

(Matthew 7:13-14) Enter through the narrow gate(to paradise). For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. In Islam, “the bridge is narrower than a hair and sharper than a sword.” Here’s more of a description:

When Allah created Paradise and Hellfire, he sent Gabriel to Paradise saying: Behold it and what I have prepared therein for its people. Gabriel came and looked at it and what Allah had prepared therein for its people. He returned to Allah and he said: By your might, no one will hear of it but that he will enter it. Allah ordered that it be surrounded by adversity and he said: Return to it and behold what I have prepared therein for its people. Gabriel returned and found that it was surrounded by hardship. He returned to Allah and he said: By your might, I fear that no one will enter it. Allah said: Go to the Hellfire and behold it and what I have prepared therein for its people. Gabriel found that it was in layers, one above another. He returned to Allah and he said: By your might, no one who hears of it will enter it. Allah ordered that it be surrounded by desires and he said: Return to it. Gabriel returned and he said: By your might, I fear that no one will escape it.” (Sahih: Tirmidi 2560)

For her everyone who wasn't following Islam was a sinner

Ehhh, sorta but not 100% true. If a person has remembrance of the Creator(and worships him alone) and abstains from that which is forbidden, that is the essence of Islam. If Islam is not known to this individual, they will surely be in paradise(God knows best). There are a lot of factors.

⁠I saw many people join Islam not because they had faith or were seeking spitirual guidanse, but rather because they needed money

So these individuals, if they don’t have sincere belief and don’t pray 5 times a day, fast etc, then in the eyes of Allah they are not Muslim. Of course people will treat them that way in mosques and whatnot but that is because we aren’t supposed to judge other people’s belief(obviously if they do unIslamic things out in the open) then that’s different. But we have to treat everyone will respect, kindness without judging. Perhaps the biggest hypocrite at the end of his days will become a sincere believer, or the sincere believer a hypocrite-so we should never judge other’s faith/practicing.

⁠I was 21 at the time and I remember this kid in a mosque asking me, "Are you a muslim?", I said "Now, I suppose", he asked me if I knew the Quran, I said "Not yet, but I'll finish reading it some day", his answer was a little bit upset "Then you're not a real Muslim!, a real muslim knows the Quran by memory, it's printed in your heart!!". Keep in mind...

This guy, oh man....this is sad. He is no judge, only the Creator is. Yes reading the Quran is important, but it’s different from prayer...but man this really upsets me. This is not Islam. Even if it comes from a Muslim. This was a test, and a hard one at that.

⁠I really tried believing all the b....but there were things I could not believe, I just didn't have any faith in them, for me Quran was nothing but an arabic tale, guess what this crazy bitch and one of her friend messaged me? "DO YOU KNOW THE PUNISHMENT FOR ABANDONING ISLAM IS DEATH?"

Bro idk how you put up with this. Your ex is mad...you seriously had the worst people around you, trust me this isn’t Islam. Yes the apostasy punishment is there, but it not like people come into your home looking for you to see if your not practicing, it’s more about it being in public. This female legit gave you worst introduction to Islam(seems accusatory and full of estrogen) idk how you put up with this.

do you comprehend why I say your religion is nothing but a cheap copy of Judaism made into a cult?

Yeah I can see how it comes across that way. And also make sure the source is authentic. There are very few legit scholars. The best site to check is https://islamqa.info/en.

this is what I witnessed by having actual contact with Muslims

A lot are ignorant just like the other 2 faiths. But I get your point. These people are to be ignored(I have heard some falsehood as well from Muslims but 99% of the time it’s not true and they have no proof-even from some of the shaykhs!) I advise you to believe that site I linked and refer to that for questions and to verify anything someone says.

Islam is a trojan horse in western society, even though I agree with many of the basic shits Islam preaches, I take YOUR society as a moral compass of what WE need.

No Islamic country in the middle east has a somewhat "safe" country. If I had to pick a country to move in besides USA/Canada/Europe I would pick Israel or Japan, just take a look what religious fanatism does to YOUR societies.

I agree 500%. Here’s the issue: there is no Caliphate. There is no country with Sharia Law. All the Middle East truly is, is a bunch of secular nationalist states with small drops of the Sharia mixed in to modernized, and unislamic, forms of government. The last Muslim society that existed was before WWI. If it’s not a Caliphate, it’s basically not Islam. If you want an idea of a society that actually represented Islam, it would be the first 600-700 years of Islam(especially the Abbasid Caliphate, while the Ottomans were somewhat hit or miss, which was the next 600 years).

Palestine: Failure Syria: Failure Iraq: Uber Failure Iran: Becoming Failure...

I agree with this whole paragraph lol. The thing is they are “Muslim” countries. They were divided up by the West after WWI. They are unislamic from the core(from the system of government) to their borders(nationalist division of the Caliphate is haram). Basically there is no Islamic society today(as a state under Sharia Law).

And yep I agree that minus the women at least technology and functionality are 5x better in the West.

Take a look at the "worst western" countries, Mexico, Colombia, Venezuela, Brazil, you know the classic "catholic and corrupt", at least these countries have functioning societies where you can preach your religion in public without being decapitated, can I go to Iran & Saudi Arabia and bring a catholic Bible and open a Church? We both know what would happen to us

Actually it says in the Quran that we have to protect the church’s and synagogues. Jerusalem was under Muslim rules for the majority of time and everyone was able to practice(and there are several several examples when there is true Sharia Law). If a Muslim state was truly under Sharia law, they would be obligated to allow Jews and Christians to practice their religion(but not out in public in the open, that is the only stipulation- can’t have preachers on the street talking about the trinity for example). But yes church’s would be allowed 100%, otherwise a “Muslim” country that doesn’t allow it isn’t following Sharia, isn’t following Allah’s divine law, and is in reality a secular country, not a Muslim one. “We both know what would happen to us” they are an illusion of Sharia Law. Saudi Arabia is, or was closer to Sharia(now they are modernizing), and are oppressive and don’t follow many parts of Islamic law, such as this issue that you brought up.

And as a side note, those South American countries, yeah you have freedom of religion more or less(although Muslims do get persecuted there sometimes) but bro those countries are far from safe. In KSA you can leave valuables outside and nothing will happen, while over there gangs will kill you for small amounts of monetary benefit.

I’ve seen this video, I don’t disagree with you on most points tbh

You really have had some difficult tests, and it’s hard for people to know what Islam is, especially given the Middle East is supposed to represent it. Sharia Law is not followed by any of these “Muslim” countries. These countries are secular and do not follow Islamic law.

[–]EndTimesMartyr0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

May I ask you this.......not very legal nowadays right? If you cannot differentiate right from wrong, good from evil you are not a person of God.

In the eyes of our Creator, you really think a girl becomes a woman at 18? Meanwhile she can begin riding the CC from middle/high school...

That’s a load of crap(If you’re referring to A’isha being 9 years old-since many women would often get married to older men when they were 9-13 back then).

Mary was around 12 when she gave birth to Jesus pbuh. Did Mary give birth as “a child”?

The reality is that girls become women when they start menstruating.

And in fact many MGTOWs would agree that women hit their prime far earlier than society wants us to believe. Lol simps out here marrying females right before they hit the wall. The average age of marriage is close to 30. That is from Dajjal(the Anti-Christ).

And yet when an 11 year old boy has sex with an older female teacher no one cares and cheers him on. But if the genders were reversed, people would crucify the male. Everything has flipped in this Clown World.

Yet it seems you are using society as the moral compass to “differentiate between right and wrong”, instead of what the Creator ordained. (I get your point about using the Bible as a guide, but we can’t judge right and wrong ourselves)

This verse means it's entirely optional for a single mother to wear the veil.

How in the @$!? did you come up with women past childbearing=single mother. If she’s still able to produce kids and has some fertility left, it is mandatory. At least your now admitting it is in the Quran though.

Something they do not do, I had a relationship with a crazy...

I don’t disagree, but this proves absolutely nothing....taking loans for example is a far more serious sin yet many Muslims take loans. The Muslim world and people are a mess right now, I take no offense if you call our secular countries s•••holes.

THEY SHOULD BE KNOWN THEY SHOULD BE SHOULD. <--- should is a recommendation, not mandatory.

‘Sigh’.... it’s taking too long to type all this but I can talk whenever if you’d be down. You’re superimposing a misconstrued wording claim in English, not Arabic(this argument really doesn’t make sense). So I guess the Prophet had no idea what he was talking about, neither did his companions and followers, neither did all the scholars who all are in agreement it is required. I literally gave you four verses making it clear. God is not speaking figuratively here.

statues of "Mary the Virgin" at home, one day I read a Catholic Bible I bought in a Church, as I was reading I read many of the things that we shouldn't do, Idolatry was one of them

I know the Bible has been heavily modified

And you say you use it as a guide and started doing things correctly based on common sense morals...

So knowing this you do believe in Jesus’s message? And what was his message then? Do you not believe in the trinity?

And do you think the Creator would leave us hanging with no clear direction in this world? Do you believe this world is a test for the hereafter where we will be judged by our deeds?

spread his religion by force

The actual conversions cannot be forced. If they are the people who forced them are extremely sinful. And their “conversion” wouldn’t even count. When the Muslims conquered Persia, they didn’t convert the masses whatsoever, it took a long time and eventually turned into Shia Islam.

Maybe this will make more sense: Yes Islam’s goal is to establish Sharia Law...but not to convert the people. The ratio of Muslims is not the focus, just having Sharia Law is. And Jews and Christians are ordered to be protected directly in the Quran(under the Sharia) and the Jizya is a drop compared to Uncle Sam. Gay peoples homes won’t be invaded...they just can’t be gay in the public sphere, along with feminist/liberals and other deviants. They can do whatever strictly in their homes.

Which one sounds better? Not only on paper and theory but in practice?, and keep in mind, I'm not criticizing "Islam" itself, I'm criticizing Muslims for not following the book properly, but I don't even know why I'm writing all this

Bro honestly we agree on a lot in a way(and disagree). I’m glad you replied. I would say Sharia Law(and Islam) is perfect, I feel that way to the core, ask me about the hand cutting, women’s rights, all of it lol, but honestly I really feel this last paragraph. Feel free to PM me bro

[–]reinaldo8660 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

In the eyes of our Creator, you really think a girl becomes a woman at 18?

I never said that, but this is what a 9 years old girl looks like: https://sharedmedia.grahamdigital.com/photo/2018/09/12/Harper%20Nielson%20Australian%20national%20anthem.jpg.jpg_12647150_ver1.0_1280_720.jpg https://cdn.abcotvs.com/dip/images/5298920_051319-wpvi-embiid-letter-10pm-vid.jpg?w=1600 Do you think it's okay to have sex with them? Or "Legging" "tighting" or whatever you call it, masturbating using the girls thights instead of penetratin her, do you accept this behavior? I think it's sick, would you give your daughter to a 40 years old man that looked like this: https://1naky92nnmnx455uj13k518t-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/Muslim-Man-Looking-angry.jpg

And yet when an 11 year old boy has sex with an older female teacher no one cares and cheers him on. Not me, in these cases I'm more worried about the kid's health, doesn't a Quranic passage say not to have sex with/in front children because they may grow up and become wicked/perverts? The west being wrong doesn't make the east right, both are pretty wrong.

many women would often get married to older men when they were 9-13 back then With boys/men close to their age, or at least there was a cap, like 12 years more, so if the girl was 9 cap would be 23-25, not 40

And you say you use it as a guide and started doing things correctly based on common sense morals Yes but applied things for MYSELF only, I never went around destroying my family's idols, I never went to a catholic church and yelled at everyone "REPENT FUCKING SINNERS, REPENT BEFORE JESUS OUR LORD AND SAVIOR" and broke their images, no, I just point it out if someone asks me, I do not participate in any wrongdoing but I will not fight against those doing it, I apply these two phrases: 1. Live and let live 2. Religion is like a penis, if you have one cool, but don't put it down my throat The problem with muslims is that they want to go to other people's nations, neighborhoods and tell people how to behave, I believe you may live in a crack filled ghetto and still be a law abiding citizen, but you won't necessarily go to the people in the neighborhood and kill them if they don't stop selling/consuming drugs, that's their business, it will hurt them not me, you see the problem with Islam? muslims go to Europe, abuse native europeans, and then criticize the "fucking western infidels", like why go to this infidel land in first place? oh yeah... you don't call it migration, you call it "conquering"

Yet it seems you are using society as the moral compass to “differentiate between right and wrong”, instead of what the Creator ordained. (I get your point about using the Bible as a guide, but we can’t judge right and wrong ourselves) I'd never use society as a moral compass, specially not my latin american catholic society, a country in ruins filled with corruption, thieves, whores, golddiggers, faggots and murdereres, but there are things even in fucked societies that are not acceptable, and pedophilia is one of them and my society is pretty relaxed regarding having sex with underages, legal age here is 16, but a 9 years old?, sadly our creator had 1 mistake, and I truly believe this, his only mistake was letting "us" be free (free will), he lays a bunch of guides for the man to live, but satan made sure to destroy everything that was once "holy" and correct in this world, everywhere you look is corrupted, humans are doomed to failed, people should find right from wrong by themselves but society also plays a big role in here, I personally think that people who "steal" should be killed on the spot, murderers should be given a death penalty with no fair trail if there's evidence (a video) of him killing a person mercilessly but then again, society thinks everyone should have "a fair trial"

So knowing this you do believe in Jesus’s message? And what was his message then? Do you not believe in the trinity? No, I do not believe Jesus is my way of salvation, but I do think that his message is important for a person to achieve salvation, which is different, do I consider Jesus God? no, I don't consider him "his son" in the literal sense, since we're all children of God, even in the Jewish Bible angels and certain holy spirits are called "Beni Elohim" (Children of the Gods), I think Muslims should do the same, do not emulate Mohammed's life, emulate the message, do not kill, do not hate, respect others, do not commit evil acts yourself, tell me how raping 2 women alone in Morroco is something good? Did Mohammed tell those men to rape them and then cut their heads off? what about the ones all over Europe driving trucks and running over people? Bombing a concert where mostly kids and teenagers will attend? I think the issue with Islam is that no matter how fucked the west is, it will be better in this side rather than yours, you guys had your chance, but then there are things like "Wahhabism", the pretorian iranian guard financing terrorism world wide, do you comprehend this is a silent battle right? if we let you win we know what will happen to us, just take a look taking over Iraq, what they did when they had most of the country and formed their "Caliphate"? started killing Christians & Jews, you are telling me Christians should be protected but your most "enlighted" schoolars are killing them? oh yeah because let me remind you the ISIS leader was a "Muslim schoolar" who had a degree in Islam

[–]EndTimesMartyr0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m assuming your asking me theoretically speaking...this would be seen as extremely normal for the entirety of civilization and humanity! Not just in the Muslim world. Everywhere. Think about it.

The first girl appears to be a bit too young. Girls hit puberty at different ages. In the case of a girl who hits puberty at 13 or 14 which is very late, of course it’s not permissible to have sex with them. However many girls hit puberty at the age of 8. Some girls look pretty mature looking at 11. It varies...and that why under Sharia there is no specific age of marriage(or age before sexual relations are permissible). It depends on the situation, and there is a reason why the father is given utmost importance in Islam, because he is responsible for the safety and upbringing for his children(in order to marry a girl you have to go through the father).

at least there was a cap, like 12 years more, so if the girl was 9 cap would be 23-25, not 40

This isn’t true bro...if the guy had money it didn’t matter. Could even be 50 or more, it just depends on two things, fertility of the girl and the resources of the guy. I can bring the proofs of this if you want. It really was normal for extreme age gaps, especially if the guy had money. Because it’s really all about her fertility when it comes down to it.

Yes but applied things for MYSELF only, I never went around destroying my family's idols, I never went to a catholic church and yelled at everyone

Lol I understand. But I beg to differ on your “live and let live” because it’s clear the Creator does not exactly advocate for that...also about the point of Islam being totalitarian(but not the way of the Muslims in your example), only when it comes to the law, without a doubt. It is totalitarian, I agree. I honestly believe that is good because it is what God ordained and why would he not want his law to prevail(this has nothing to to do with “forced conversions”). And I agree with your example that many of those Muslims are hypocrites but “conquering”....Lol the Muslims are far too weak for such a compliment...

Pedophilia is not part of Islam at all. 16 is waayyyyyy too late. We can act like puberty is meaningless, however that is the real transition from a child to an adult. Girls hit puberty earlier than boys and even mentally develop faster. Many girls hit puberty even at the age of 8(https://www.girlshealth.gov/body/puberty/timing.html) It varies by region and depends on the girl. Honestly on this point, I’m not even being defensive, the fact that this is something considered “bad” only today is honestly more proof.

tell me how raping 2 women alone in Morroco is something good? Did Mohammed tell those men to rape them and then cut their heads off? what about the ones all over Europe driving trucks and running over people? Bombing a concert where mostly kids and teenagers will attend? I think the issue with Islam is that no matter how fucked the west is, it will be better in this side rather than yours, you guys had your chance, but then there are things like "Wahhabism", the pretorian iranian guard financing terrorism world wide, do you comprehend this is a silent battle right?

None of this is Islam, none of it. They are going against Islam and will most likely be in the hellfire(God knows best). And what difference is there between NATO/the US and ISIS? They are all terrorists stemming from the same source.

if we let you win we know what will happen to us

This is a good point. I agree with this. But here is the problem. If the West wanted to get rid of terrorism and “radical” Islam and all this stuff, much of which is unIslamic btw, all the have to do is establish Sharia Law in some part of the world. But the Anti-Christ(Dajjal) will never do that. Instead he will give you a fake Islam(Iran) or corrupt regime which is owned by the West which ignores much of Sharia(Saudi Arabia) and will not allow Sharia anywhere. If you think Sharia shouldn’t exist anywhere, well than groups like ISIS will inevitably always come into existence.

just take a look taking over Iraq, what they did when they had most of the country and formed their "Caliphate"? started killing Christians & Jews, you are telling me Christians should be protected but your most "enlighted" schoolars are killing them?

I addressed this is my other reply just now. They are going against Allah and the Sharia. That was a caliphate? Lol, I also addressed this question of true Islam in my other reply.

oh yeah because let me remind you the ISIS leader was a "Muslim schoolar" who had a degree in Islam

I am aware of this. I believe what ISIS gets right is attacking the forces that prevent Sharia from being able to exist. However do they do this? No they don’t. Instead they kill random innocents, which is why I am convinced it is from Dajjal and I am very wary of how they get funded...

No, I do not believe Jesus is my way of salvation, but I do think that his message is important for a person to achieve salvation, which is different, do I consider Jesus God? no, I don't consider him "his son" in the literal sense, since we're all children of God, even in the Jewish Bible angels and certain holy spirits are called "Beni Elohim" (Children of the Gods), I think Muslims should do the same, do not emulate...

Ok thanks for elaborating. Very good points although of course I disagree with the last bit. I still think you don’t have a clear understanding of Muhammad(SAW) and Islam because you keep referring to stuff that the ignorants, hypocrites, and oppressors of the “Muslim” world have done. The only true statement you brought up about the Prophet was that he had intercourse with a 9 year old. Which btw is 100% fine according to the Creator’s divine law/wisdom in the Quran and other religious scriptures.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link