Pay Gap and sourcing

Gregorian_Tree · 2017-12-24T16:29:35+00:00

The problem with the pay gap argument is that there's virtually no study based off of government statistics that is going to do what's necessary to truly isolate out whether men and women get paid different amounts for the same work, because government statistics don't even remotely get down to the granularity you need to truly compare people at the same job.

Think about how difficult that would be. Within an industry there's companies that pay more and companies that pay less for the same position. Within a company there's many different positions, and they don't always pay the same. Getting to 'the same work' with federal job classifications, or industry statistics is effectively impossible. To truly do this topic justice, you need to get people a) at the same company, b) with the same job title, and c) with the same tenure or general experience/education level.

I've only ever found ONE study that even approaches this standard, and it's the Korn Ferry Hay Group Study. For their study, they ignored government statistics and went straight to employers, getting right into their HR data. They compared men and women in the same company and job title, so they almost get the perfect set up, missing only tenure/experience. It's a huge study, too, covering 8.5M workers in 33 nations.

And they found that the average pay gap between men and women was a paltry 1.6% across the 33 nations. The US wasn't included in their sample, unfortunately, but many other western nations were. Canada was, so I routinely use this study when talking about this topic in /r/Canada.

So, if that study went the extra mile and made sure they were only comparing people at the same company, with the same job title, and who had been there the same length of time, what are the odds that there would be something left of that 1.6%? Virtually nil.

At least in those 33 nations, men and women are NOT paid differently for the same work.

zulu127 · 2017-12-24T16:47:24+00:00

Here's something that might interest you.

DolphinsAreOk · 2017-12-24T13:36:08+00:00

You could also bring up other aspects, like the fact men have a far higher chance of dying on the job (http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Accidents_at_work_statistics#Analysis_by_gender). Ask them if that might be worth a higher salary.

chmbrs · 2017-12-24T15:13:12+00:00

They are right. Accounting for everything that we know, there is a pay gap to the tune of 0.5%.

You can google all the evidence you need. There are hundreds of articles from various sources including left wing papers. Many of those site their source studies.

No amount of evidence will win this argument though. The evidence has been around for a long time. They are arguing from emotion based on ideology.

“that’s accounted for and there is still a wage gap” - With this they mean that there is still a wage gape BECAUSE OF SEXISM. Even if there is a wage gape (there is as small one) that is not evidence of sexism.

Sexism exists, and probably effects some women in the workforce. It also effects men. The people who you are likely going to be arguing with see sexism (and racism) as a one way street: MEN --->Women. WHITE--->OTHER etc... their belief system is based (though they don't know it) in cultural marxism which is power class vs non-power.

Your best bet when dealing with people who's entire ideology is based on the rejection of reason is to make emotional appeals. Ask questions rather than making statements. Postmodernism has a response for every statement based in reason that you can make.

Title	Pay Gap and sourcing
Author	C-Doge
Upvotes	9
Comments	12
Date	December 24, 2017 12:27 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/7luws3/pay_gap_and_sourcing/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/pay-gap-and-sourcing.908800 https://theredarchive.com/post/908800

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