Remember, practice REAL masculinity, not the knock off "toxic" variety lol

foot_kisser · 2018-03-30T00:44:50+00:00

making inappropriate remarks, shouting out of a car window as she walks down the street, whipping out his genitalia after one too many drinks, or being opportunistically crude at a coffee shop, even as she sits there with a very young child ... How dare we do that to something so exquisite and delicious?

Maybe, just maybe, there's a middle way in between the two extremes. Maybe we don't have to choose between treating all women identically as either dirty tramps to molest or else exquisite and delicious goddesses to worship.

Perhaps we could take women off of their pedestal while simultaneously refraining from kicking them into the gutter. It might shock feminists and PUAs alike, but I think we could actually try treating women as people.

We could treat them as if they could sometimes lie about things. We could treat them as if their merit mattered more than their sex. We could treat them as if they had agency, and were responsible for their actions, both good and bad. We could treat them as individuals, rather than mere representatives of a group, who could be either good or bad without the entire group being exactly like that. We could treat them as if their preferences were valid, and that they could be allowed to be homemakers, if that's what they want.

Maybe we should treat women as if they didn't have to pick between being Slutty McTramp or the pedestal-goddess.

Not only could we treat women like they were people, we could treat men like that too.

We could treat them as if they could sometimes tell the truth. We could treat them as if their merit mattered more than their sex. We could treat them as if they were not only responsible for their actions, but as if they were not responsible for things they didn't actually do. We could treat them as individuals, rather than mere representatives of a group, who could be either good or bad without the entire group being exactly like that. We could treat them as if their preferences were valid, and that they could be allowed to be sexual without being monsters, if that's what they want.

Maybe we should treat men as if they didn't have to pick between being Rapey McSexMonster or a worshiper of the pedestal-goddess.

throwaway46819 · 2018-03-29T21:39:56+00:00

While I overall agree with the point, I really hate the overall tone of "yeah, so many guys are like this" throughout the article. There are maybe only 2 people out of every guy I've known well enough (which is actually quite a few) that would act like this. Maybe.

My point is: Yeah, I agree, those people act terribly, and they need to stop. But will you please stop assuming this is the norm, that this is something every guy needs to be taught in school, that, left unhinged, a guy will turn into a sexual harasser and/or rapist.

And that last paragraph:

And explain to us that that context always involves the prior establishment of mutual respect, a sense of safety, and trust. We are basic creatures. You, ladies, are gatekeepers. So let us know that respect and social competence will open that gate much more easily than will crude attempts to bash it down

Seriously? Yeah, please apologize my animalistic behaviors whilst around the sheer glory of these angelic female deities.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate and agree with the fundamental message of the post, but I'm getting tired of reading this kind of tone in articles. But I guess if it helps get the message across to feminists, maybe it's worth it for the time being, but for the love of everything good, let's try to keep this temporary.

raluth · 2018-03-29T22:20:23+00:00

Would you tell a woman that she wasn't demonstrating "REAL femininity"?

thrway_1000 · 2018-03-29T21:31:06+00:00

Be a sap and take up traditional roles while belittled, derided, and stomped down by society as it uses you for the workhorse you are. Thanks but no thanks.

furchfur · 2018-03-29T21:53:44+00:00

There is no such thing as "Toxic masculinity". It is just masculinity. If society does not like it I do not give a flying XXXX. Masculinity is not a problem for men and we need a lot more of it in society.

Title	Remember, practice REAL masculinity, not the knock off "toxic" variety lol
Author	PowerToAnnihilate
Upvotes	3
Comments	7
Date	March 29, 2018 9:17 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/8850xy/remember_practice_real_masculinity_not_the_knock/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/remember-practice-real-masculinity-not-the-knock.903609 https://theredarchive.com/post/903609

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