https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnDH-RXCptY

There has been a recent upwelling of MGTOW posts reaching the front page, and I felt that some comments I made would be better as a post.

The Red Pill is not pickup. It has become the new internet landing page for late adolescents and early adults trying to learn new strategies to get laid, but there are key distinctions between PUA and RP. PUA teaches scripts to convince a girl that your value is higher than it is, here we tell you ways to actually increase your own value.

MGTOW responds to this by saying that they do not want to increase their own values, it's not worth the effort just to get laid. Look on any of /u/GayLubeOil posts about self improvement, near the bottom there will be quite a few comments saying 'this is why I don't bother with the dating game and I'm MGTOW.'

Now the issue here is that you are combining a group of people who are dedicating themselves to self improvement with a group who say hard work is meaningless. This is not a natural relationship, and I doubt it will endure. Many MGTOW will disagree with me, saying that they still do increase their values but that they do it for themselves, not women. Here's why I don't believe you: All self improvement should be for personal reasons. The women that come with a higher value are added perks. Once your value is truly high enough, women will make it very clear that they are attracted to you.

If you are saying that you are increasing your value for personal reasons but are spurning female advances for the sake of an internet movement, you're probably gay. Or, more realistically, you probably aren't improving yourself the way you think you are, you've just found a new group online to make yourself feel good about being a lazy virgin.

MGTOW is kind of bullshit within the context of The Red Pill because they aren't making plausible arguments. Either you're promoting hard work without reaping the benefits of determination, or you're saying hard work is meaningless. Either way, I don't believe you. Having sex with young, attractive girls is calculably better than not having sex with young, attractive girls for a straight man. When you say you are forgoing the obvious intense pleasure that comes from it, you either sound lazy, socially awkward, or full of shit.

I completely respect the idea and the movement, I just think MGTOW can be insidious to an alpha male space like this that promotes an ethic of conviction for a clear and calculable goal. Every dude who skips a gym day because 'fuck it I'm MGTOW' isn't furthering the male movement, he's being a bitch, and I'm tired of hearing about the values of doing so.

1:04 in the Louis CK video is a pretty fai