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[–]Delicious_Ad_1853 10 points11 points12 points 5 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
Do not do it without consent. You don't get to make health decisions for her.
So what should you do? Get her consent! Talk about it all openly from the beginning. Find out what she's comfortable with right away and find out what she might be comfortable with after getting to know you a little bit. As things progress, keep checking in and keep escalating... with consent.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Yeah this likely sounds like the best advice. So is this something you'd bring up on the date, or discuss beforehand? A lot of the time I'll ask their opinion on meeting up during covid and then get a date out of that conversation, but I just find it super hard to escalate with this barrier in person.
Should I just straight up be like "what kind of interactions are you comfortable with during covid?" Seems super clinical but I'm not really sure how else to approach it re: consent.
[–]Delicious_Ad_1853 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Before the date, you should already be asking these questions:
How do you feel about a date? Would you prefer some public or private, indoors or outdoors? Are comfortable getting close or do you want to wear masks and keep some distance for a little while?
If she says she's comfortable getting close, you're probably good for normal escalation. You can confirm that by simply offering a hug when you meet up with her. If she agrees to the hug, you're off to the races.
If not, just keep your hands to yourself for awhile. If the date is going well, you can try again by commenting on how weird dating during covid is. Mention how your dates are usually more interactive and expressive, high fives, side hugs, etc. Whatever some of your early escalations are. Explain how weird it is for you be sitting there keeping your hands completely to yourself.
If you've built enough comfort by then, she'll give you the green light to be your normal self.
If she's still not comfortable, she at least knows now that you're holding back for her sake, so it's up to her to make a move when she's ready.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thanks for this, will take this approach in the future. Very much appreciated!
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
with all due respect, this sounds like advice from a female - overly cautious and permission seeking constantly before proceeding further. A female will most likely be put off by a guy constantly asking for reassurance: "is this ok?"
Read her body language and proceed. Don't verbalise as this comes across as weak and needy.
[–]Delicious_Ad_1853 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Under normal circumstances, you're absolutely right. A socially competent man knows the social norms and confidently crosses minor boundaries based on body language alone.
There's a pandemic, though. The ordinary social norms went out the window for many people. You can't possibly know where their boundaries are without asking. Barging through them like nothing has changed will just leave you looking like an arrogant asshole.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
no one said anything about "barging through", so that's a strawman right there. And on your main comment I disagree: a pandemic or otherwise, 95 per cent of communication is non verbal. Too much permission seeking is a weak trait.
[–]Delicious_Ad_1853 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
See, even in written communication, there can be disagreements over what means what.
That's why people use nonverbal communication for things that don't really matter. The simplicity outweighs the occasional misunderstanding.
For things that matter, we use our words to double-check our intuition. The slight pause to avoid big mistakes is worth it.
And for things that really matter, we write it all down in excruciatingly detailed language to make sure everybody understands all of the possible details. There's an entire upper class industry dedicated to this.
The higher the stakes, the less we rely on nonverbal communication. A pandemic raises the stakes of every in-person activity. Calibrate accordingly.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
...except when it comes to sex.
Thanks for all that, but I wasn't aware I was sitting in a university lecture hall.
[–]Delicious_Ad_1853 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
There's probably no hope for Rapey McRapeface here, but for the rest of you, miscommunications about sex is exactly how you become part of an assault statistic. You should try to avoid that.
I think what he's missing is that there are two types of permission seeking. If you're asking someone for permission to do something you already have the right to do, that is a sign of major of weakness. You don't need anybody's permission to tell a corny joke or express an opinion or whatever. You have every right to be yourself.
You don't have any rights to her body, though*. You must seek permission before crossing over from your space to her space. Recognizing that she owns her own body is not weakness; it's just the basic reality of a free country.
This guy is right that nonverbal communication is a thing and so is implied consent. They should absolutely be part of your toolbox, but don't get so caught up in trying to seem "alpha" that you're afraid to ask a simple check-in question at key moments. Especially if you're a rookie who still sucks at reading body language and especially during a pandemic.
* And in a pandemic that expands to include a bubble of space around her body.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Probably just need to have a convo about it. Personally, I knew I wouldn't be comfortable getting in someone's personal space given my (and my households) risk level for Covid, so I just choose not to date until now (I have the vax now). If she's in the same boat, respect her boundaries.
[–]denl67 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's a bit tacky but one thing you can try is using an excuse to touch like the way they did their nails, palm reading (old school) etc. And see how they respond. If they're comfortable, slowly escalate more if not then back off a bit and you know where they stand
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Nowhere on the planet is 100% safe. Nowhere...give things another few months, or a year until they improve. A 5 minute romp in the sheets is not worth your health, spreading it to someone you love, or...your life.
Depends on if this guy has been vaccinated or not yet. If he hasn't, then I agree.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Vaccine or not, you can still get it, still spread it.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
But, at least in America, pretty much everyone who wants a vaccine has gotten one, so the only ones you're spreading it to is the dumbasses who didn't get it for themselves (aka social darwinism). The risk of dying for a fully vaccinated person is incredibly low.
Not sure where you got that information, but its not even close to accurate. There are perhaps a 100 million kids that are not vaccinated, and one is not even offered to them yet. Plus, there are tens of millions of so called "EpiPen carriers" that are advised not to take it, or maybe yes, or no, its unclear. On top of that, as of April 20, the CDC reported a total of 7,157 cases of COVID-19 among fully vaccinated people and 88 deaths. Some doctors and scientists are speculating that the Moderna version and others, might need a "booster" shot within 6 months of the first round of shots...but they're unclear and unsure. And, the new variants, especially one going around in India, *might* be resistant to the current versions of vaccines, its still unknown, and other mutations and variants will come into existence. So...anyone thinking they get a shot and its all good, is being naïve. And again, a vaccinated person can still spread it to another person, their sex partner, someone on the bus, their beloved grandmother and so on. And lastly, yes, the anti-vax dumbasses are not helping, with anything...ever. :)
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[–]Delicious_Ad_1853 10 points11 points12 points (9 children) | Copy Link
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