So I'm not really sure if this topic is appropriate for this sub, but I think this might be one of the best places to have a discussion on this topic and get the opinion of other men who aren't just completely ideologically warped on this issue.

Here's my take on the whole 'nice guy' thing.

So, I feel like that are people out there who are interested in simply just manipulating women for sex, right? I think this is an important thing to start with. I'm not denying that in any way.

You can pretty much make the argument this is what PUA / The Red Pill does, except they bring a more realistic strategy to the table. Whereas a guy that's trying to manipulate women by being 'nice' has likely just been misinformed in terms of what actually attracts women. So likely one too many Disney movies?

So if the concept of 'nice guys' was literally just that. Guys that try and actively manipulate women into fucking them by acting 'nice'. Then I'd be pretty fine with the concept.

My issue really comes into play because I feel like woman pretty much use this as an umbrella term for anyone they're not sexually attracted to? Why do they do this?

Well to me, it just seems like woman have this desperate aversion to being seen as shallow. Being completely fair, it's something most people probably don't want to be known as, but it seems as if women are especially sensitive to it. Why do I say that?

Well because rather than just admit they're not attracted to someone it seems they tend to latch onto this 'nice guy' concept and begin to create a strawman of that person to justify not being interested in them?

I've had this misfortune of seeing this a lot both in person, being present for conversations in a work/school/social environment, and also on social media.

I notice is that it always tends to happen to shorter guys, or guys that aren't particularly attractive. The guy can be a perfectly well put together dude. Has a job, is responsible, in shape, has interests, etc.

There are so many ways that it can go down, but it's like they have to downplay someone's character, marginalize their accomplishments, etc.

Because obviously, to their friends and family, they always say they prefer personality over appearance. But then when once a nice guy with a great personality comes along that tune changes if he's not what they're looking for physically.

Suddenly being nice is the 'bare minimum' and he's seen as having no other desirable personality traits. I find this a bit funny because I think people who are genuinely 'kind' are a bit of rarity their days, and obviously, these are the types of people who have dated 'jerk' after jerk in the past.

It's the same thing if they have similar interests in a hobby or something like that. It's always something like "Oh yeah, well I mean I like that too but... 'X' is just obsessed with it. Like, there's nothing else he likes to do at all. It's kind of weird"

You know, just these extremely intellectually lazy generalizations about people that in some cases they barely even know.

I've seen it with fit guys too. Particularly not so attractive guys or short guys with great bodies. The woman will say she wants a guy with a fit, active lifestyle, etc. And instead of just admitting when she doesn't find someone who has those things attractive due to their face/height she'll always have to attack their character.

"Oh, him? Are you kidding? All he does in the gym? Does he think he can just be nice to me and the fact that we have similar interests will get him in my pants? What a loser. Like, I like being fit, but he's just... obsessed, it's kinda gross...."

The TLDR is that they create this strawman of the guy where he is only 'nice' and has nothing else going for him in his life. They'll take any mutal interests, or interests at all, and find a way to spin them in a negative light to justify not being romantically interested.

To me, it's just hilarious because of the fact that they have to retroactively create these strawmen of people that, on paper, might be a good match because they fear being seen as hypocritical... Well, to me it's just proof of the amount of virtue signaling they're doing in regards to dating/relationships.

Otherwise, they'd just be honest!

What do you guys think of this? Have you seen and or witnessed this type of behavior?