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Israel proved that female soldiers get injured during training and represent a threat for their male fellows, but they keep pushing it!

Rabid_Pink_Princess

May 30, 2017
37 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.vox.com/world/2017/5/29/15619574/marine-corps-women-sexual-harassment
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Title Israel proved that female soldiers get injured during training and represent a threat for their male fellows, but they keep pushing it!
Author

Rabid_Pink_Princess

Upvotes 37
Comments 34
Date May 30, 2017 8:41 AM UTC
(9 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/6e64nq/israel_proved_that_female_soldiers_get_injured/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/israel-proved-that-female-soldiers-get-injured.921622
https://theredarchive.com/post/921622
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Comments

[–]Rabid_Pink_Princess[S] 14 points15 points16 points 9 years ago* (31 children) | Copy Link

As I've said some time ago:

First of all: I'm a woman. That being said, I strongly believe that women shouldn't join front line infantry units for many reasons:

1) Those soldier are required to meet high phyical standards (endurance, running time, carrying weight and so on). These minimum standards they must meet exist so they can perform well in front line combat, avoiding part of the risks, helping heir team and not becoming a burden to their fellow soldiers. Only a few women were capable of meeting those minimum standards, so the minimum standards have been lowered for them. What does this mean? It's nothing like sports, in the army these women go to the front line side by side with physically more capable male soldiers, becoming a burden for their team. Best case scenario: the male soldiers carry on their shoulders the female ones to bring their back to camp, as tons of reports and videos show.

2) There is something even more serious: recent data show that, despite the lowered minimum standards they have to meet, a perchantage around the 46% of female soldiers suffer lasting physical injuries just during the training (and many of them become sterile). They don't even have to go to actual combat, and those who manage to be ready to go to combat, get shot and suffer other damage in a perchantage way higher than male soldiers.

3) There's even a factor of combat effectiveness. Expert analysis report that mixed team of males and females are always resulting less efficient cause of social and psychological dynamics. So you could say: do team of only females, but there are not enough women.

Allowing them to do this, it doesn't simply mean that we allow them to seriously hurt theselves most of the time, it even means that, after sustaining this damages, they can press charge against the army, taking a lot of money and lasting benefits, becoming a big cost for their countries.

Saying that "they have the right to chose to hurt themselves" is silly. There are things people can't chose.I can't chose to drive without a license. Why? Because I can hurt myself and others. Plus, women infantry soldiers are becoming a cost for their country too many times.

And yet they keep complaining, and now they want more female soldier in the marine. Why? Because it's more prestigious than other corps. After all we already know feminist complain about the number of female CEOs and not about the number of female truckdrivers.

Sources:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/198853

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2512412/Female-RAF-recruits-100-000-compensation--march-like-men.html

http://dailycaller.com/2016/04/18/israeli-military-theorist-female-idf-combat-troops-are-inferior/

[–]the_unseen_one 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

It's almost as if millions of years of evolution as the warrior and defender of the species makes men more suited for combat and hardship. Whoda thunk it?

Excellent post, thanks for sharing and citing sources.

[–]SwordofGondor 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Isn't this subreddit about equality? We need both men and women in armies and as soldiers if we want an equal society.

We should keep the requirements rigid for both sex but get that "defender of the species" shit outta here, we've not cavemen. Especially in modern war, a woman is just as good for like 95% of military jobs. Infantry is a small part of a modern military, and even then, a well trained/dedicated woman can be a fine infantry soldier. See the Canadian army for examples.

[–]the_unseen_one 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Equality where possible, equity where it isn't. Short of highly sophisticated retroviral gene treatments to make women as strong, fast, and durable as men, they have zero place in the military.

get that "defender of the species" shit outta here, we've not cavemen

You can deny biology all you want, but that doesn't change it.

Rather than trying to force women into the draft and ruin our fighting ability even more, we should give all men a substantial or total tax break for the years he is elligible for the draft. Not worth your life, but it's equitable in some ways. All drafting women into more noncombat jobs will do is free more men to go die in the meat grinder, worsening the burden that is placed on men. At least with the current system, some men can get lucky and not be tossed into combat.

[–]SwordofGondor 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Short of highly sophisticated retroviral gene treatments to make women as strong, fast, and durable as men, they have zero place in the military.

This is just blatantly wrong. There's a ton of jobs in the military that aren't infantry. Logistics don't require you to be as strong, fast or durable as men. The military needs medics and engineers, quartermasters and cooks just as much as it needs infantrymen. Sexism won't get you anywhere.

All drafting women into more noncombat jobs will do is free more men to go die in the meat grinder, worsening the burden that is placed on men

If a "meat grinder" situation is happening ( WW1/2 style), then we're in deep shit. I would want to see everyone drafted to put more bodies in the field. In a deep-shit situation, anyone that can hold a gun and march is good enough for army work, man or woman.

Also, if more women were drafting into noncombat jobs maybe then less men would get drafted overall. Women are almost never placed in like elite infantry units, but an average woman with training can definitely be fit for regular infantry work, especially in wartime.

[+]GettingGains points 9 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

WRONG. Women should be put on the front lines. That is equality. Women vote for men to die at war, so they should be on front-lines as much as men.

Keeping women out of the front lines just means that more of our valuable men are going to die. Not acceptable.

What needs to change mixed combat units. Women and men should NOT be in the same units for the reasons you listed. It endangers men and makes the units less effective. Women should be in all-female units.

Women have all the benefits of civilization. It is time for them to start paying the cost in maintaining it.

[–]lynx_and_nutmeg 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm a woman and I agree. If men can't handle being in the same unit as women, then I guess they should be separated. All-female combat units are certainly not a novelty, some countries' examples like the Kurdish female fighters prove that women can fight successfully.

[–]SwordofGondor -5 points-4 points-3 points 9 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

Lol so you're some chick who wants women to get off from doing the actual difficult conscription work? How is this discrimination against men? What is this doing on mens rights?

Also your english is fucking awful, I sincerely hope it's your 3rd language or something.

[–]Rabid_Pink_Princess[S] 8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago* (13 children) | Copy Link

Hello imbecile, how many languages can you speak? :)

That been said: could you provide counterarguments and maybe some corrections to my bad english to help e dumb girl improve? :)

And it's discrimination for a series of reasons:

Men are required higher standard to obtain same results.

Women soldier end rapresenting a cost for the state, and the state is financiated mostly by men (taxes)

And if you watch at some videos of mixed infantry squads who come back from the frontline, you'll see the men carrying the women on their shoulder.

There are many other things which can be said actually, I can try to repeat even slowlier if it helps.

[+]SwordofGondor -7 points-6 points-5 points 9 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

I speak 3. There's so many english mistakes in your replies that it would take way too much time to comb through them all, but keep at it.

Men are required higher standard to obtain same results.

Obtain same results for what? I agree that standards shouldn't be lowered for either sex, but it's better to have lower standards for women than to omit them from infantry service entirely. It's at least somewhat fair, there is a biological difference. But yeah, I wouldn't want to be going into combat with a female soldier who didn't at least pass the same standards I did.

you'll see the men carrying the women on their shoulder.

That's on the men, I doubt they're forced to.

and the state is financiated mostly by men (taxes)

Lmao source? You're talking about Israel.

I can try to repeat even slowlier if it helps.

Slowlier? Hahahahah

[–]Rabid_Pink_Princess[S] 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I speak 3

What are they? And what's your first language?

Obtain same results for what?

Become a certain type of soldiers, with related duties, rights and income.

agree that standards shouldn't be lowered for either sex

But they HAVE to be lowered to allow women to join it, that's the fucking point. And even with lowered standards half the women who attend just the training courses get permanently injured becoming a burden for society and a cost to the state.

And it has to be lowered cause when it wasn't lowered almost no woman could match the standards. There are the official data somewhere, it was like 1 on 10.000 women. And sadly that's a big problem because it requires resources which don't exist: training requires time, funds, space, staff and so on. They couldn't train a lot of women and end up with none. So you basically live in a fantasy land where whenever you say something is right it's automatically doable. Smart.

I wouldn't want to be going into combat with a female soldier who didn't at least pass the same standards I did.

So you are basically saying I'm right. This is smart for real! I'm surprised!

That's on the men, I doubt they're forced to.

So they should leave them dying, of course, they will receive great awards for that and they will live a beautiful life full of pride! Jeez, you are smart!

Lmao source? You're talking about Israel.

Men are the ones who work more, and gain more and pay more taxes... damn, you are smart!

Slowlier? Hahahahah

English is a second language I learnt alone thanks to the internet with basically no formal education, I can improve. I doubt you can become smarter tho. But don't worry, you are already extremely smart! :)

[–]SwordofGondor -5 points-4 points-3 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

English, French and Arabic.

Become a certain type of soldiers, with related duties, rights and income.

Yes this is true but women also have a biological weakness when it comes to infantry related roles, it's fair to give them an equal playing ground related to promotions and such. Not so much for combat readiness but I digress.

But they HAVE to be lowered to allow women to join it, that's the fucking point.

Says who? If you want a shitload of women in infantry due to conscription then maybe.

Here in Canada there's women in infantry and they go through the same standards as men. Of course we also don't force anyone to serve in the army, so there's that.

So you are basically saying I'm right.

I already stated that I don't believe standards should be lowered. I'd rather have lower standards than banning women from infantry though.

So they should leave them dying, of course, they will receive great awards for that and they will live a beautiful life full of pride!

Lol, you're an idiot. Do you think that soldiers who have trouble moving just get left for dead? Call in a medical evacuation, cars exist you know.

Men are the ones who work more, and gain more and pay more taxes

Again, says who? I asked for a source. Back up your statements.

learnt alone thanks to the internet with basically no formal education

Lol that was obvious. You really need to learn how to construct an argument because you come across like a 13 year old child.

None of this is discrimination against men, at least not to any remotely serious degree. Israel should stop the lowering of standards and do some initial testing before sending their male/female conscripts to infantry, but it still doesn't belong on this subreddit.

[–]Rabid_Pink_Princess[S] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

English, French and Arabic.

So you are making fun of me because, as a foreign speaker, I speak your first language worse than you do... And you called me 13 years old child... I don't even feel like mocking you about that attitude, it would be sad.

Lol, you're an idiot. Do you think that soldiers who have trouble moving just get left for dead? Call in a medical evacuation, cars exist you know.

Seriously. That's your comeback. Because you think that a soldier should leave a fellow back saying "Do not worry, they'll come for them right in time"? Jesus.

Again, says who? I asked for a source. Back up your statements.

Do you need a source for this? Man I'm here to discuss an argument, not to teach you Society 101, fucking google it.

Says who? Here in Canada there's women in infantry and they go through the same standards as men. Of course we also don't force anyone to serve in the army, so there's that.

Oh... well... I didn't know that... okay, so if in Canada it works than you are right...

Oh but... but wait... and this?? What is this?? There are even tabs who shows the lowered standards for women in Canada's Army! O_O Oh my! so you don't know what you are talking about! Who would have thought!?

Honey, hush hush, go to sleep, don't let dumb italian girls humiliate you. :*

[–]SwordofGondor -2 points-1 points0 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

And you called me 13 years old child

No I didn't, I said you were acting like a 13 year old child. Not because of your grammar, but because of how you compose an argument.

Because you think that a soldier should leave a fellow back saying "Do not worry, they'll come for them right in time"?

What are you talking about? If a soldier is injured then you get them help, generally without leaving them.

Man I'm here to discuss an argument, not to teach you Society 101, fucking google it.

Wow, it's almost like arguments depend on facts. Lmfao, how stupid are you?

There are even tabs who shows the lowered standards for women in Canada's Army! O_O Oh my! so you don't know what you are talking about! Who would have thought!?

That tab is an archive for the MINIMUM MILITARY STANDARDS. You clearly didn't even fucking read the website because it says this directly

Furthermore, some CF occupations, including firefighters, Search and Rescue technicians, parachutists, divers and members of Joint Task Force 2, have developed and implemented trade-specific physical fitness standards. These different standards are more physically demanding than the MPFS, and do not distinguish between men and women.

If firefighters don't have different standards then it's likely the infantry doesn't as well. Minimum standards are for the desk jobs, they're an absolute joke. Learn how to fucking read you absolute dolt. You can have women in an army and they can be fine soldiers, but you probably won't have a lot.

[–]Rabid_Pink_Princess[S] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

If firefighters don't have different standards then it's likely the infantry doesn't as well

Sure... It's likely. And they mention parachutists and not infantry. I mean...

Wow, it's almost like arguments depend on facts.

And then you will ask me to give you sources to prove that the fucking sun is hot... man, it's the gender wage gap the feminists always talk about, the only thing that actually proves is that men earn more than women, but because women work less hours and less payed job, not because there's a difference in payments...

Seriously, I'm done wasting my time with you.

[–]SwordofGondor -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Sure... It's likely. And they mention parachutists and not infantry. I mean...

They were minimum standards just to enter the military. Your argument was centered around "front-line infantry" work, not minimum standards. Parachutists, firefighters etc have higher physical standards, I would assume infantry does as well. The first two don't discriminate by sex.

man, it's the gender wage gap the feminists always talk about, the only thing that actually proves is that men earn more than women

Taxes are based on a lot more things than just income. Sales tax, property tax, estate tax. Who the fuck knows if men pay more in Israel compared to women? Maybe they do, maybe they don't. Hence why I asked for a source.

Seriously, I'm done wasting my time with you.

Okay great, seconded. Your stance on things is so ridiculous that I don't even know why I bothered. Your typing and argument style gives me a headache.

[–]J_Schafe13 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Nothing about being in war should be based on fairness. That's the same kind of politically correct idiocy that has been getting our people killed since Vietnam.

[–]SwordofGondor 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

That's why I said I disagree with lowering testing standards. All I meant was it's just a bit "more fair" but I agree, it's still completely wrong and inappropriate for a military, especially in wartime.

You do have to keep in mind that Israeli has like a 3 year conscription period for every able-bodied adult, which helps understand why they need to be accommodating sometimes.

[–]J_Schafe13 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Providing accommodations is simply another way of saying putting other soldiers lives at risk.

[–]Rabid_Pink_Princess[S] 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for being smart

[–]SwordofGondor -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree, to an extent. But when you want to keep millions of people happy when you're forcing them into the army for 3 years, sacrifices have to be made.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

One of the rules of every decent Internet's discussion forum since ages has been not to be rude and not to complain about the language. skills of foreign speakers. You could have said: I had hard time understanding the language you wrote so perhaps you could consider studying it a bit more.

But then again you had no problems understanding because the OP knows Englis enough to get her message through perfectly.

[–]Rabid_Pink_Princess[S] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for your kindness.

[+]smthhappy points 9 years ago [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

No thanks. Equality means half of soldiers should be women especially in the drafts

[–]Rabid_Pink_Princess[S] 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

Equality means that half of the soldier should be women

And half of the pregnants should be men.

[–]SwordofGondor 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah except one is biologically impossible and one isn't.

What a stupid fucking argument

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

If it meant we had some say in whether or not the mother was allowed to murder our unborn child, I'm sure many of us would sign up.

[–]Rabid_Pink_Princess[S] 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

That's a good point, but the reality is that sadly you can't, in the same way the majority of women can't make good front line soldiers.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Agreed. In the future, both of those things could change though.

Women could wear advanced mech suits.

Men could have artificial wombs implanted.

[–]Rabid_Pink_Princess[S] 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Luckily I suppose I won't be here at the time when my man could ask me to impregnate him.

[–]McFeely_Smackup 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm all for integrated armed forces, but pretending there's no difference between men and women while simultaneously lowering standards for women is social engineering, not a strategy for the highest quality forces.

Decide what the standards are and hold everyone to them. A gender based caste system that elevates one sex over another is poison to what should be the highest levels of camaraderie and esprit de corps.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

In Israel it seems a little more vital and important to have the best possible military due to immediate surroundings. And their people have accepted this and desire the best for their safety and for those that have to fight. In the US people have been in a bubble so long and a war with strategic bombing and destruction has not occurred on the US mainland since 1865. Of course these people have a ridiculous world view and view of how the military should bow to their own ridiculous anti-scientific and statistical beliefs often while selectively applying that same logic to things they despise such as Christianity (but not Islam) and in the scientific world.

[–]Rabid_Pink_Princess[S] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah... feminism love Islam so much. I find it very funny, and I think it can shows us how both work together to make women happier.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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