An Existential Conundrum.

Readership: All; Men;
Theme: Validation; Whorable Wonders; Feminine Submission;
Author’s Note: Some of the text has been lifted from previous comments. Links embedded in the initial words.
Length: 1,100 words
Reading Time: 6 minutes

A Model of Learning

Our brains are constantly taking in information and trying to make sense of the world around us. As we gain more experience, we start to form mental models, attitudes, and expectations to simplify and streamline the process of decision making. After a while, we rely more upon this process, and any new information is examined and then used to fine-tune the process.  After a long while, it is easy to get lazy and rely on the process alone without thinking too much, i.e. ‘Auto-Pilot’.  At the extreme, we operate solely on ‘Auto-Pilot’ and deny or ignore new information that is right in front of our noses.   The result is that we perceive what we expect to see.  We have become blind.

Moreover, our experiences shape our mental models, and our mental models help us form expectations.  In turn, our expectations affect how we experience the world, and thereby shape our reality.

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With that in mind…

Oscar and Thnking had a lightning volley under the previous post, How to Induce Humility in a Proud@ss Woman (2025/4/23).  I’ll review their dust-up as follows.

Expectation Shapes Experience

Thnking is a younger man (I’m guessing) and his view is more introspective and orthodox (according to Red Pill lore).  His viewpoint is that Proper Expectation Shapes Future Experience.  That is, if you’re dwelling on a bad mental model or ruminating on a fear of women, then you’re more likely to live that out for the worse.

Thnking introduced the following insights throughout several comments.

  • The basic Red Pill idea that women are attracted to ‘Scary’, and get turned on by domination.  “Tingles are born in a defensive crouch.”
  • Ephesians 5:33 — “Wives, see that you phobeo your husbands.”  The majority of versions translate ‘phobeo’ to ‘respect’ in this familiar verse, but WYC hits the nail on the head with ‘Dread’. Heh.
  • Dalrock: Sarah was a doormat by Complementarian standards, as are her daughters. (2016/3/22)
  • IMPORTANT: It is better to overshoot and get a woman who is ‘too submissive’ than to undershoot and get a contentious ball of contagious misery.

In summary, Thnking’s point is that the female desire to be ruled over is good, God ordained, and necessary to create a male dominant hierarchy, and this cannot be negotiated. Her FEAR of him has to be baked into the wedding cake from the start, not added to the icing.

This is the premise behind the success of a Meet Cute.

This is why St. Paul advised women to phobeo their husbands.

This is also why women are attracted to strong Men, even rogue antagonist characters, and NOT Nice Bryce.

And AWALT.

Thnking’s point entails that if a man intentionally chooses a woman who has qualms and fears about being dominated by a man (which is most women, especially Feminists), because he thinks a woman’s innate desire to be ruled over is synonymous with any of the worst-case scenarios of dysfunctional abuse (as Feminists like to obsess over), rather than with the better-case scenario of genuine Christian Headship, then he is excluding himself from finding a good relationship having a God Ordained structure of authority.

Expectation Shapes Experience.

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Experience Shapes Expectation

Oscar is speaking as an experienced older man, and his view is more practical and tempered.  His viewpoint is that Past Experience Shapes Proper Expectation.  That is, if a woman has a bad track record, then she’s very likely to bring all her rubbish into every subsequent relationship, and is therefore NOT to be chosen as a wife.

Oscar made the point that women who are on the upper end of the spectrum of being susceptible to fantasies and FEARS are emotionally and spiritually unstable, and are NOT to be chosen as wives.  He cited the following passages.

  1. It’s wise to marry a virtuous woman (Proverbs 31)
  2. It’s wise to avoid contentious women (Proverbs 21:9,19; 25:24; 27:15)
  3. It’s wise to avoid immoral women (Proverbs 2, 5, 7)
  4. A wise woman builds up her house, but a foolish one tears it down (Proverbs 14:1)
  5. An excellent wife is a crown to her husband, but one who brings shame is rottenness to his bones (Proverbs 12:4)
  6. A beautiful woman who lacks discretion is like a gold ring in a pig’s snout (Proverbs 11:22)
  7. “Never stick your dick in crazy!”

And don’t forget what the Sirach has to say about women.

Furthermore, women who are already crazy about The Lusty Fantasy have probably already had that kind of experience and are thus spoiled for wifery by another man.

Many readers agreed with the general wisdom of Oscar’s point.

Experience Shapes Expectation.

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Conclusions

Both men have valid viewpoints, but come from very different perspectives.

Oscar feels compelled to warn younger men about the pitfalls associated with evil women and therefore won’t tolerate any compromise.  But actually, younger generations are MUCH more aware of Women’s carnal nature than Xers or Millennials ever were (until recently), thanks to them growing up with the Manosphere, The Red Pill, and TikT0k, etc.  They don’t need to be told to be aware of women’s sinful nature.  They already know all about it.  Instead, they’re wanting encouragement, male fellowship, and tips on building a solid Frame, as S. D. James wrote in Why Christian Men Need Friendship, Not Just “Accountability” (2025/3/24).*

Concerning their argument, from what I can tell, the main issue of contention is whether the meaning of phobeo in Ephesians 5:33 refers to and/or includes women’s innate attraction to aggressive men who may also be abusive and controlling, and whether AWALT.  (If any readers see their issue of contention as being something else, please explain in the combox below.)

It is difficult to address this issue because this is yet another conundrum.  That is, choosing a woman who truly FEARS you in order to form an authentic Headship relationship is the same thing as joining yourself to a raving psychopath.

AWALT strikes again!

J/K (but not really).

Oscar and Thnking never reached a consensus, and as of now, I believe it is because they have NOT fully understood the other’s viewpoint.

  • Oscar thinks Thnking is (1) mischaracterizing his own viewpoint and (2) insisting that men should seek out women who want to be forcibly dominated.  (But this was not Thnking’s point.)
  • Thnking said Oscar has flown off on a tangent and has made a strawman out of his argument.

I hope that my above analysis can reset this discussion on a more fruitful track.

I will continue to go over this complex topic in future posts this month.

* H/T: jvangeld

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