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Then_Election_7412 Archive

View 2 posts and 55 comments by Then_Election_7412 on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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9

It's a result of a deep-seated sexism, one that denies agency to women and ascribes hyperagency to men. Making progress on gender roles, without any significant part of society acknowledging that, is impossible. It's like trying to climb into the air by pulling on your own shoelaces.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/11/24 07:24 PM
2

Imagine you created a Gender Inequality Index the same way as the UN does here, except instead of maternal mortality they looked at prostate cancer rates. The net result of it would be an index representing the world as highly biased against men. In fact, it would be impossible for gender inequality disfavoring women to be represented. Of course, that would be ridiculous, but that's exactly what the UN is doing here, except on the other side. The choice to do so is a choice to create propaganda.…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/10/24 11:40 PM
7

Something that's been bouncing around in my head: Why has feminism failed? Not failed men, but failed even by its own standards: giving women happy lives, shifting men away from "toxic masculinity," even in protecting rights it secured half a century ago. It's kind of surprising, because despite its reach and power over society being far greater than it was a decade or two ago, feminism seems further from its goals than ever. And I'm coming around to this: it has a deep theoretical issue. It tre…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/10/24 02:52 AM
1

For instance, the expectations that men learn to self police their emotions. For society, it results in a stable, compliant population who can be relied on to work consistently and reliably even in the face of considerable stress. For the men self-policing, however, it results in a kind of self-abnegation, where their emotional responses are considered invalid and they have no expectations that anyone cares about their feelings. There's a healthy middle ground, but society indoctrinates men far …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/10/24 02:04 AM
–

I agree with you that, if you're not in a metro area of at least ~1M, your pickings are pretty slim. Gay cowboys are pretty SOL. They could probably move to an area with better demographics, but it's fair to point out straight men in places with unfavorable demographics could also move. So I'd probably say that "it's easier to date as a gay man in a major metropolitan area than it is to date as a straight man in the same area."
/r/PurplePillDebate04/09/24 08:48 PM
–

No. I'm a bisexual man. However, many of my partners have been gay men. (As another point: gay men are far more open to dating bisexual men than straight women are, who tend to write bi men off as not real men or diseased or just plain ick.)
/r/PurplePillDebate04/09/24 08:22 PM
–

Suppose it takes X effort points to evaluate a potential partner. You have two populations: one where there are 10000 people who have a 1% chance of being a match, and one where there are 100 people who have a 25% chance of being a match. The total size of the population is irrelevant when it comes to the amount of effort or difficulty of finding a partner. For the former population, it takes 100X effort points to get your first one. For the latter population, it takes 4X effort points to get yo…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/09/24 08:16 PM
–

I guess this is a good example of straight womansplaining. It's an absolutely mild preference compared to women. A 5'4" twink with a shy personality will still get 100x the interest from gay men than he would from women, quite literally.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/09/24 07:57 PM
–

The difference is that becoming fit is much more accessible than becoming tall, becoming rich, and adopting a "masculine" personality. The former takes like six months at most and there's a clear pathway to it; the latter is much more difficult or impossible.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/09/24 07:44 PM
–

As a bi guy, gay men have much wider and varied preferences than do straight women. Particularly, around expectations of masculinity. Of course hookups are easier to get, but so are relationships. So long as you're fit and not insane, men seeking men have a much easier time of it.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/09/24 07:31 PM
1

It's rare: most men don't end up Prince of Silicon Valley. Those that do, end up dating conventionally attractive girls in their 20s who are on track for a professional career. They certainly don't spend even a minute per year thinking about Becky from English lit. That said, it's entirely reasonable for guys to be a bit salty about that. Imagine you're a woman, and in high school you were pretty much invisible because boys didn't consider X to be a feminine attribute. Now, you do have X, and th…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/08/24 04:51 AM
2

I think on the Internet, it's all very adversarial and not at all collaborative. In real life, most everyone is pretty collaborative, even if they don't agree on every single thing.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/24 07:47 PM
10

Feminists, you can say in an equally biased way, don't actually care about solving women's issues but focus more on bashing men. You can see that with e.g. pay gap rhetoric. Instead of addressing the root issue of men being subject to a restrictive gender role, they invent wild conspiracies about male employers secretly docking women's pay just out of spite and misogyny. The key here should be progressive men and women working together to tear down restrictive, socially-enforced gender roles to …
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/24 03:16 PM
1

A "finer differentiation" that exclusively affects women? I don't think you really understand what the claim is here. You presumably agree that sorting into coarse occupational buckets is one of the causes of the wage gap. We don't have infinite visibility, however, into all of the finer differentiation within one of those coarse buckets. The same factors that drive men into those higher-paying coarse buckets may drive them into higher-paying fine sub-buckets within a coarse bucket. Nope, that's…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/24 02:49 PM
2

If you didn't get 1 to 5% of your salary, you'd be raising hell with HR and you're not going to accept that it's "within the margin of error." You can't simply assert that the a gap of 1% after everything is controlled for is due to sexism. It's simply that: a gap that we don't have data to control for. It could be classical discrimination; it could be due to finer differentiation in roles than accounted for in coarse occupational categories; it could be higher male productivity. Or a dozen othe…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/24 06:13 AM
0

If you look at e.g. Uber drivers, women consistently make around 7% less than men do per hour (note that excludes tips). The algorithm doesn't take into account gender, and it still comes up. The reasons? Women drive more cautiously than men; they offer rides in less lucrative areas; they go for more regular hours and not peak times (e.g. 2AM on a weekend). Those same traits play into other occupations.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/24 05:52 AM
1

Therapy can be useful. But then it's usually a focused intervention to give tools to handle life better. Therapy as it exists today is almost a lifestyle choice, where you hire someone to kvetch to who never tells you you were wrong, and you then go around talking about how much you love therapy to show how emotionally mature you are.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/07/24 11:38 PM
2

has your female partner ever frustrated you with a constant bombardment of questions aimed at figuring out what you’re thinking/feeling? This is emotional labor. Yes, this is emotional labor, but you're confusing who the laborer and who the recipient is.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/05/24 11:04 PM
8

But in inegalitarian households, where the man is the primary or sole earner (over half their sample), the man works more (paid and unpaid) hours overall than the woman does. Overall, it appears that things are relatively equal between men and women, at least in terms of hours worked. It's only when there's a sole breadwinner that that breaks down, and always to the non-earner's benefit. That's usually the woman (though, the inequality is genuinely ridiculous when the woman is the sole earner, t…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/24 12:17 AM
26

I think it's more like "the large majority of extremely online women are like that, so on Reddit/Twitter/etc you see that perspective more than anything else." In real life, most women would readily agree that a guy can have a hard time dating even if he's a decent guy. There the issue is the much milder one where they offer the prescription of "be more confident" or "just be yourself," but those are just well-intentioned platitudes that don't have any of the malicious intent.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/02/24 10:15 PM
6

The scope of allowed emotional expression is typically much broader in male-male relationships than male-female relationships. I think the difference in broad vs narrow scope of appropriate emotional expression is what men are pointing out when they say women don't like vulnerability, not that they want to be able to rant and yell at women.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/22 07:11 PM
6

Eh, as a bi guy, I like that there's a wide variety of potential partners who don't require a carefully crafted presentation and performance of emotional state. Why would I go for a girl who demanded I never show genuine vulnerability in her presence when I can go for a guy or open-minded girl who doesn't demand that?
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/22 07:08 PM
18

Any time I see men thinking they're being vulnerable they're actually being too open to the woman of their interest... Do not cross her boundaries by being too open, but also don't feel like you can't express yourself with her either. I've noticed and what works for me is being open about something painful but just not letting it get to you. In other words, men shouldn't offer their raw selves, but a carefully calculated version of themselves that elicits feelings of closeness by the woman of in…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/11/22 06:56 PM
6

When I struggled with dating, I imagined being in a romantic relationship would bring emotional intimacy, provide a support structure for addressing life problems, and make me far happier. I thought it'd be better to die than live a life without love. After finding romantic relationships, I found emotional intimacy, had a support structure for addressing life problems, and became incredibly happy. And I still think a life without love wouldn't be worth living. For the life of me, I don't underst…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/10/22 02:57 PM
43

The Left correctly points out that the Right offers nothing to men besides lip service and the maintenance of a crappy social contract. But that amounts to a huge self-own: how little do you have to be offering to men that lip service and shitty policies is beating you?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/10/22 12:43 AM
35

The core idea is great: people should strive to live the life they want to lead and not think of getting a partner as a prerequisite to achieving that life. The issue with the MGTOW sub was that they very clearly were spending more of their time raging at random women instead of building beautiful lives.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/10/22 12:15 AM
11

For whatever reason (biological, cultural, it doesn't matter) boys have a different typical developmental path than girls. The issue is that schools are optimized for girls' developmental path. That's leaving aside the discrimination boys face in school (which is in part driven by the choice of evaluation standard, which aligns with girls' developmental path). Even if it's 100% cultural, it's still far more effective to modify curricula for the sake of equity than it is to punt the issue to vagu…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/10/22 05:52 PM
5

How is someone who's not having that entitlement met while in a relationship worse off than someone who's not in a relationship at all, considering that they can switch to not being in a relationship at any point (barring rare exceptional circumstances)?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/09/22 05:25 AM
10

So you're saying guys don't have the right to complain about how gender roles enforced by women adversely affect them? That seems a convoluted way of saying "men just need to shut up." Women don't have an obligation to date anyone, but that doesn't mean that men have an obligation to suppress their observations and feelings to better fit the gender role you're trying to enforce. And the point still stands. You're saying that women are entitled to an equitable relationship, but men aren't entitle…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/09/22 05:14 AM
12

Many women complain that their husbands don't do enough housework. Is that entitlement? I have a hard time understanding why women complaining that they aren't able to be in a specific type of relationship is any better than men complaining they aren't able to be in any relationship. (I think both are valid complaints, fwiw.)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/09/22 06:42 PM
11

Even if someone blames women (or the attitudes they tend to hold) for their dating struggles, that doesn't rise to the level of "entitlement," unless you reject the idea that women can ever be blamed for things.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/09/22 06:26 PM
8

Even if so, that isn't entitlement, no more so than a woman complaining that she's never promoted because she thinks companies only promote white men is showing a sense of entitlement. They're perhaps wrong, but frustration and identifying (incorrectly or correctly) social structures that are leading to bad outcomes isn't entitlement.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/09/22 06:20 PM
13

The only settings where women are clearly searching for a partner are online dating apps and singles mixers. Beyond that, it'll always be a judgement call. That does mean reading the room, but a very significant number of men err toward reading the room too conservatively instead of too liberally. Errors of reading the room too liberally shouldn't be considered evil or misogynist, so long as the guy backs off after a clear indication of lack of interest.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/09/22 05:33 PM
24

Someone getting frustrated over not having sex isn't a sign of entitlement to sex; it's simply being frustrated he's not having sex, unless he starts saying that the law should be changed to allow sex at will or that he thinks he should be able to ignore the law and have sex with who he wants. This applies still when complaining about gender attitudes that women statistically have when choosing sexual partners: that's simply complaining about the situation causing the frustration, again not enti…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/09/22 03:15 PM
11

I'd elaborate: the big issue with confidence is that it literally means something internal, but people use it to mean something external. It's supposed to mean something like self esteem, but in practice it means performing certain male-coded behaviors (e.g. occupying an expansive space, both physically and socially; emphasizing his own agency instead of situational limitations). Implicit in that usage is that a man having that interior quality would inevitably result in him performing these mal…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/09/22 02:38 PM
5

From Pew: https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2013/03/14/chapter-6-time-in-work-and-leisure-patterns-by-gender-and-family-structure/ In total paid + unpaid work, men work 45.6 hours per week, while women work 45.2 hours per week. Or, from the Bureau of Labor Statistics: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/atus.t01.htm Adding up the categories I'd classify as work, men spend 6.74 hours per day on it, while women spend 6.82 hours. (That includes weekends.) My takeaway is that men and women spen…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/08/22 05:11 PM
1

Look how unaccepting people are of many common male behaviors / body language signals from women, Clothing is superficial by comparison. This doesn't align with my experiences. Could you give concrete examples? For example, meekness vs assertiveness. The difference in overall level of interest a woman will have with one trait vs the other is relatively small. But a man switching from assertive to meek would have a significant dip in interest. As far as the dress thing goes, I'm skeptical. I thin…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/08/22 03:59 PM
1

I dunno. A man who wears a dress, vs a woman who wears overalls: who'd have more success dating the opposite sex? Though you could argue overalls are less gendered than a dress, but that just kicks the can down the road: why do people accept a narrower range of gender expression for men and a wider one for women? Or, if we're talking life/career choices, a man who wants to be a househusband or a woman who's a software engineer?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/08/22 02:25 PM
1

"Women are unwilling to consider dating someone who performs masculinity outside of traditional norms" is just another way of saying women are more close-minded than men.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/08/22 05:15 AM
1

As a bisexual man, you're deeply mistaken if you think women are more accepting of bisexual men than men are. They're not. You just arbitrarily define the ways women discriminate against bisexual men out of the definition of discrimination. In terms of psychological damage on account of being bi, women have done far more to me than men have.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/08/22 05:14 AM
1

"Women are turned off when men are bisexual, while men are turned on when women are bisexual" seems like just a convoluted way of saying men are more open-minded than women.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/08/22 05:11 AM
12

Men are willing to date bisexual women. Women aren't willing to date bisexual men. You can call it homophobic or not, but it is a definite point in the ledger toward men being more open-minded.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/22 07:33 PM
5

The data is noisy, and COVID is an important confounder. It stands out in contrast to the preexisting trend line. See https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FDSXtwHXMAIdwtm?format=jpg&name=900x900 for historical data. That said, if the 2021 results continue into the future, that will cast doubt on arguments about disproportionate male sexlessness.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/08/22 08:06 PM
1

But there is enough evidence to feel with some certainty that overall, right now, women are more likely than men to be on the wrong side of an unfair division of labor. And that is factoring in EVERYTHING. I'd be curious where you get this. From the government, see page 9 for a full breakdown of how Americans apportioned their 24 hours per day: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/atus.pdf There isn't a crazy difference. Adding together housework, childcare, and paid work results in men doing ar…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/22 05:08 PM
19

Why do you write off someone's body type as a reason they have a great deal of difficulty finding partners? Case in point: I'm a 5'3" bisexual Asian guy. When I first went online and listed those traits, I got literally zero likes from women for the first three months. At the same time, when looking for men, I got over 100 on the first day. Another time, I did a test: what's the effect of height on rates of interest? I varied my height, started getting likes around 5'6, and each two inches more …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/06/22 07:57 PM
7

I was just Googling for the particular study that showed that to refresh myself on it, and I found this news piece that covered it. I wanted to share it here because... well, I'll just share it, and the title. Their own fault: Why men don’t live as long as women Enraging. And the article itself isn't even bad--it says nothing about blame or saying that men deserve it. But I think the title points at the core of mens' predicament: our issues aren't considered structural or systemic, because it's …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/05/22 06:26 PM
1

Anecdata update: in a discussion with two lesbian women and a bisexual woman, one of the lesbians said she's always explicit about asking for consent, and the other two women usually don't but wouldn't judge a woman who did ask for consent. The bisexual woman owned up to being open to a woman asking for consent but being turned off by a guy who does. Grindr is interesting as far as consent and explicit communication of desires goes and is just so totally different from straight apps that it's ha…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/04/22 08:58 PM
19

People pretend confidence means something like self esteem, but in practice it's just a proxy for masculine gender performativity. For instance, consider this study: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1508932113. In short, men who "manspread" were perceived as more confident and attractive than men who didn't. Manspreading, of course, doesn't indicate anything about a man's self esteem, but what it does do is act as a signifier of masculinity by establishing dominance and laying a broad claim…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/04/22 07:32 PM
2

I'd be curious to hear a lesbian perspective on this. My sense is that they don't judge someone for asking for consent. I'll ask some friends tonight. Of course, that just shifts the question to whether heterosexual norms are malleable or not.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/04/22 06:58 PM
1

That's absolutely ridiculous and extremely insulting. I apologize; that was unwarranted and me being out of line, as well as me badly stating my intended point. My intention wasn't to imply that you had raped someone, but to say that you had been in situations where she may have been uncertain (or at least not having decided one way or another), and once you proceeded without verbal consent she enjoyed it and consented. Technically yes, you can never guarantee you know 100% that the other person…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/04/22 06:34 PM
1

You're correct: it would still select against genes for that trait (although if they're located on the X-chromosome, it'll select less strongly). Eventually it'd be eliminated from the gene pool, assuming it provides no other compensating advantage.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/04/22 06:23 PM
2

The idea some people are pushing - that you should ask verbally before escalating - will never take off. I agree with most of your comment but disagree here. There's no particular reason things have to be this way. Case in point: LGBT dating. I'm bisexual guy, and I've never once had a male partner get turned off by asking if we could suck dick. In context, it's shifting 90% certainty that they want to suck dick to 99% certainty; at worst they find it cute or amusing that I asked. With women, as…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/04/22 06:08 PM
6

There's always ambiguity, full stop. As you point out in your original comment, even if a woman communicates explicit verbal consent to you, there can still be ambiguity. Unless you're claiming most women use nonverbal body language less ambiguously than they use their words, there's every bit as much an issue with figuring out what they want from their body language as there is with relying on their words. And if you've regularly initiated sexual contact with a variety of straight women and nev…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/04/22 02:05 AM
8

That's the only pragmatic way to approach things, but it makes the entire idea of consent culture trite. No one out there, even the most rabid TRPer or misogynist, thinks you should ignore clear nonverbal cues and force a woman to have sex with you. But if consent culture really just means "men must rely on reading ambiguous nonverbal cues that will vary in meaning from woman to woman to determine whether they want a particular form of sexual contact," you're just repeating the stuff that dads w…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/04/22 07:47 PM
4

There are also lots of gendered expectations on men that pressure them into the role of breadwinner, more often than not enforced by female romantic partners. Which is also related to men's shorter lifespan, more hours worked, more on-the-job fatalities, lower job satisfaction, fewer social connections, etc. Gender roles are a huge sprawling mess.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/03/22 04:50 PM
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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