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tigalicious Archive

View 0 posts and 167 comments by tigalicious on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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1

Yup, I came, and now I'm leaving. Not as fun as I hoped it would be. Worth a shot though. I hope you find more satisfying discussions!
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/16 10:15 PM
2

I don't particularly care about proving anything to you. This discussion is getting tiresome. But yes, you are partially correct. If the issue is saving lives from emotional struggles, whatever the cause, then in my opinion therapy is most likely to be the best place to start.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/16 10:05 PM
2

I have never claimed that it would work for everyone. I only said that's what people should go to rather than TRP. I think it has a higher chance of being helpful. Fun strawman, though.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/16 09:41 PM
1

No, I don't feel that I insulted anyone. But I assume that's what you meant; it's a common misunderstanding. Thank you for your advice. I hope you absorbed the information I shared with you as well. And we can both argue better in the future. :)
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/16 05:02 PM
1

Simple is not the same thing as easy. And personal insults, direct or implied, are not the same thing as an ad hominem. Any other words you'd like to condescendingly misuse today?
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/16 04:25 PM
1

If you're going to lecture people on their debate techniques, you should learn what they are. That's not an ad hominem. It's super ironic to make assumptions about other people's opinions, and then lecture them for making assumptions, though. That was entertaining at least.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/16 04:12 PM
2

Oh cool, I guess those entire fields of science can just shut down now, because of your anecdotal opinion.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/16 02:54 PM
3

It's not a magical cure for everyone. Nothing is. But it's at least evidence-based and guided by professionals, rather than a bunch of people who also don't know how to solve the same problem.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/16 02:47 PM
7

Google the difference between therapy and psychiatry. It's useful information sometimes.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/16 02:35 PM
10

A good therapist will work with their patient to develop strategies for improving their life based on their individual needs and strengths. And they are literally professionals at doing that. Do you have any actual arguments for why you think TRP's approach would be more effective, or are we leaving it at "I disagree with you"?
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/16 01:45 PM
14

If someone is struggling and unhappy, they should go to therapy. Not join a misogynist cult. Super simple stuff.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/16 12:22 PM
1

So you're pro hate speech? That's classy.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/16 12:11 PM
2

Weren't you just saying that personal insults are not acceptable to you? Or is it just insults towards people who are being "misogynist assholes or whatever" that aren't okay?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/16 04:11 AM
2

Those seem like vastly different subjects...
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/16 04:02 AM
2

Not if you have good communication skills.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/16 03:28 AM
2

Are you trying to prove my point? They're so hung up on being lonely, they end up blaming women for everything bad that men do, whether those men are getting laid or not.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/16 12:04 PM
3

Assuming that's true, how does that benefit anybody? He still doesn't get any sex. He just becomes an objectified fantasy that people can think about from a safe distance.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/16 10:08 AM
4

Wait, don't they also blame women for men's crimes because they "reward" "bad boy" behavior with sex?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/07/16 10:07 AM
1

So do you want equality, or do you want to be a special snowflake?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/16 03:14 PM
1

Medical and financial ethics don't care about your gender, or your sense of persecution.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/16 02:41 PM
1

Yeah that's pretty awesome. In the US, you're pretty much just stuck at the mercy of your boss.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/16 11:46 AM
1

Do you think your job would appreciate you going missing for 3-4 months?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/16 10:40 AM
2

Because a fetus is not the same thing as a child, and a medical decision is not the same thing as a monetary arrangement.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/16 10:38 AM
6

That's something only a virgin or someone that didn't have a lot of sex would say or otherwise you would have noticed that most women aren't like the average women when it comes to sex. Or someone who doesn't actually please their partners, and just does the same shit all the time without bothering to get to know them.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/16 10:38 AM
4

You want an actual CMV? Stop trying to equate voles with humans.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/16 11:24 PM
4

And that's why they made a subreddit devoted to "strategies" to get women's attention?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/16 09:34 PM
3

I think it's exactly the opposite. Being intelligent gives you the ability to pursue whoever you want while avoiding the negative aspects of it. And the ability to navigate healthy relationships without relying on all of that "alpha/beta" crap.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/16 03:25 PM
5

Lol I love this statistic. It's fun to imagine a world where men have more sex with each other than they do with women.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/16 01:48 PM
1

Oh what a surprise, an insincere CMV on PPD.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/07/16 10:31 AM
1

I thought you guys were all about personal responsibility. Isn't that the alpha thing to do?
/r/PurplePillDebate01/07/16 11:59 AM
18

The fact that you have trouble finding women who you respect does not mean that's the greatest challenge of 21st century men. That's some serious projection. Some men have more pressing problems, like homelessness, mental health, physical health, lack of awareness for men who have suffered through abuse and sexual assault, the desperate need for prison reform, and that's just "first world problems". Men in other places are struggling to simply survive through war or hunger or disease. Your penis…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/07/16 11:32 AM
1

Partly, yeah. If you can't make a valid point on the topic we're actually talking about, then I'm not going to engage with you. Besides that, you were completely off the mark in your assumptions about what I know and what I believe.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/16 11:01 AM
1

Dude, I already knew all of those facts. But we were discussing the development of men and women into adulthood. Not slavery, or race, or European history. There is no reason to bring that shit up, or make any assumptions about what I know or what I believe about those things. You didn't blow my mind with new information. You just made yourself look a little obsessed with racial issues.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/16 09:58 AM
1

Why the fuck are you ranting random racism at me. What is it with you people?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/16 11:49 PM
4

If only feminism was actually the cultural norm. I'd be so happy. If you seriously think that the last 200 years of new information on human biology and psychology is something that can just be scare-quoted as fake "enlightenment"... Frankly, the size of that hamster belongs in a Goosebumps book. Dead dudes from the 19th century do not trump actual scientific knowledge.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/16 02:26 PM
2

Is every observation you make in your own life based on scientific data? No, which is why I don't use anecdotes to try to make amateur conclusions about the world. Do you know where the 'women stop developing at 18' meme comes from btw? Do you need an invitation to say what you obviously want to? Go ahead. I invite you. I'd be happy to discuss it.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/16 12:20 PM
6

Nice back pedaling. Inductive reasoning is actually one of the foundations of science. But that doesn't mean that our personal anecdotes are scientific data.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/16 12:00 PM
4

Liking Harry Potter, or thinking that anecdotes prove anything?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/16 11:16 AM
9

I know men of many ages who love Harry Potter. Does that mean that our anecdotes cancel out?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/16 10:37 AM
1

Yup! Also, some serious questions about why he felt the need to be secretive about it, because all I would have needed was a text or something saying "X is coming over. She's a friend, but I think I might get lucky".
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/16 12:57 PM
1

If they're happy in the relationship, then good for them. In your terms, yeah, I guess you could label that "getting a prize". Good relationships can be hard to find. Projecting your baggage onto other people's lives doesn't seem like a healthy way to spend your spare time. Not everyone is obsessed with N counts and college-aged women. In this case, it sounds like both parties have matured in the past several years, but they still have some stuff to talk out about their mutual past. Beyond that,…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/16 10:09 AM
8

If you had quoted the rest of my comment, you would have answered your own question. Is a red flag to most adult women, specified as the ones who don't consciously manipulate relationships with the goal of "whipping" their partner.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/05/16 08:37 PM
17

You are fishing hard for a confirmation of what you already believe. Sure, maybe some women are consciously manipulative and want to be in control of a relationship. Which sounds exactly like what TRP advocates for men to do. But to most adult women, it's a simple request to help carry things. And it's a huge red flag if you're too worried about being "whipped" to spend five minutes helping your partner.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/05/16 10:21 AM
2

Becoming aggressive is not the only solution. It's probably not even the most effective solution. The most effective solution would be to separate your sense of self-worth from your success in dating. Happy, emotionally healthy people draw others towards them. If you build yourself a good life, other people will want to be a part of that life. Go to therapy. Don't give up on being happy while also being a good person.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/16 05:21 PM
2

You didn't answer either of my questions. And you still haven't made a convincing argument for why anyone should believe your theory about having a new sexual partner every month.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/03/16 08:17 PM
5

Are you trying to suggest that flirting and dancing should be included in a person's N count? Or just expressing your disapproval at women who have fun doing it and then go home with their girlfriends?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/03/16 07:14 PM
6

Why do you assume that going to nightclubs means having sex with new people all the time? Some people just like to go dancing.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/03/16 09:46 AM
1

Early twenties
/r/PurplePillDebate20/03/16 12:41 AM
1

Maybe that's how you behaved when you were a virgin. But yeah, these guys happened to be virgins and also over-eager and pushy. Hell, with one of them I had to literally pry myself out of his grip when I wanted to get up for a drink.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/03/16 10:37 PM
1

Not the same person, but I've had more than one experience with guys who I was initially attracted to and planning to sleep with, only to have him blow it by trying to push my boundaries. I understand being inexperienced and excited, but it's still not my responsibility to risk sexual assault if he keeps acting that way when we escalate to more intimate things. Learning how to negotiate consent is mandatory for getting it.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/03/16 01:30 PM
1

Dude, either the analogy was twisted away from its intended meaning, or building mutually beneficial relationships actually isn't a part of your dating model. Pick one.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/03/16 09:23 PM
4

It's creepy to model dating strategies as hunting prey, for one thing. The point of dating is supposed to be finding someone who wants to be with you and then building a mutually rewarding relationship. Not finding someone who is easy to manipulate, whom you think of as a sick gazelle, for chissakes.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/03/16 10:47 AM
1

And I'll never understand why you are so committed to believing that it's so rare, after being confronted with so many examples to the contrary. Just because women don't approach you, doesn't mean that we don't approach anybody.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/02/16 10:47 AM
-2

Blue pill checking in. Not spineless. Or a guy. In fact, I'm pretty sure I've never dated a man who I didn't initially approach. Although I have to admit, I've dated a few who think that they made the first move. But since then I've learned how to avoid people (like you) who don't acknowledge women's contributions to social interactions.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/02/16 04:29 AM
1

Look. Almost succeeding isn't actually success. This isn't horseshoes. And considering the content on TRP, the older generation is definitely not the only demographic that still holds onto sexist beliefs.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/02/16 11:22 AM
3

And where are these screaming women? Have you ever met one?
/r/PurplePillDebate02/02/16 07:17 PM
4

Has civilization been destroyed? I must have missed the memo. Or maybe I'm just capable of adapting to my environment instead of clinging to nostalgia.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/02/16 06:49 PM
2

Aww, I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/16 01:34 AM
6

Oh cool, so there's a mathematical analysis behind your claim to back it up? I certainly hope it includes an objective measure of which girls are "finest". Either that, or you're using your profession as a shield from criticism and hoping I'll fall for an appeal to authority fallacy.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/16 03:46 PM
3

I hope you have enough good sense to not try acting out that little fantasy. It would be a shame if your life got derailed without even the consolation of "the finest girls" magically showing up in your life.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/16 02:02 PM
5

Then being thought of as a rapist would be a positive development in his life! I guess it isn't so bad after all. /s
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/16 01:35 PM
4

Fits of rage, crime, and psychopathy are not attractive.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/16 01:18 PM
8

Why don't you unsubscribe, then?
/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/15 11:55 PM
2

And finished up with a strawman! Good job.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/12/15 10:24 PM
2

Then you've misused the word "disingenuous". But whatever. Your point is pretty ironic considering the fact that you immediately followed it with a claim about "the majority of women" that isn't even supported by anecdotal evidence.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/12/15 09:07 PM
1

Why would it be disingenuous to use the exact same debate strategy?
/r/PurplePillDebate25/12/15 05:43 PM
-4

Because everyone already knows that red pill is morally reprehensible? That's a pretty shitty excuse to just continue being hypocritical.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/15 05:51 AM
-2

Holding your group to a different standard of behavior than other people is also hypocrisy.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/15 01:19 AM
-1

So you wouldn't mind using the UVA rape story as an example of how horrible sexual assault can be? I mean, even if that story isn't true, there are plenty of other sexual assaults that actually are committed. I thought you guys were so passionate about the seriousness of falsely accusing people of crimes. Or does that only apply if the accused is a man and the alleged crime is rape?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/11/15 02:05 PM
2

Why does your "perfect" world sound like men are in some kind of sexual slavery? Is that what you think a perfect world would look like, or are you projecting your opinion that women should be in that position if the world was "perfect" for men?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/10/15 12:36 PM
5

I was drawing the exact same conclusion as the commenter I was replying to, in order to demonstrate how silly it is. I don't think that was particularly subtle. What are schools teaching kids these days?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/10/15 06:36 PM
6

Again, what gave you this impression? I have literally met zero feminists who think anything positive about ISIS. Frankly, your comment sounds like an emotion-based strawman. I invite you to show me rational evidence to the contrary though.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/10/15 05:51 PM
12

Besides your bizarre assumptions being presented as fact (What ideal is feminism supposedly promoting?), your entire statement is a double-standard. If feminists (which is not the same thing as women) aren't capable of cooperation and rational thought because they are often anti-TRP, then red pillers (which is not the same thing as men) aren't capable, either, because they are almost exclusively anti-feminist. Or are we assuming that only TRP has rational ideas that should be cooperated with?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/10/15 04:49 PM
8

I understand that insulting people like that and distancing yourself from them feels more satisfying, but I don't think denying people's identities is helpful... Male adult humans are men. Some of them are really shitty people, but that's okay because the vast majority are not. But I do understand your insult.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/10/15 12:58 AM
12

They may be men that you don't approve of, but they're still men.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/10/15 11:01 PM
6

That is a perfect demonstration of the delusion of persecution that /u/anandya was talking about. Your "translation" assumes a lot of hostility that is not there...
/r/PurplePillDebate01/10/15 10:57 PM
2

Barely entertained, actually. But thanks for checking in on me.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/09/15 01:22 PM
5

You've got a funny definition of "all" if you ackowledge that it doesn't even apply to "most of the time".
/r/PurplePillDebate14/09/15 04:10 AM
2

You don't like when people agree with you? Of course, they must thoroughly critique your hard work! Not just agree that it's a bad analogy?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/09/15 04:05 AM
1

So you knew it was a shitty analogy, but you still object to the analogy being criticized?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/09/15 01:31 AM
2

You must not understand how respect works.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/08/15 08:41 PM
0

I know a guy who is like this. I've told him jokingly that there's a waitlist to get with him. The primary characteristics that add up to that pattern seems to be: He cares about his appearance. Irons his clothes, takes care of his body, etc. He is constantly pursuing social interactions. Not just sex or dating. So women who meet him get the (correct) impression that he cares about who people are and values any form of relationship that they're comfortable with. Not just about getting his dick w…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/08/15 12:07 PM
1

Maybe I misunderstood you. What are you talking about? Could you describe what you think the similarity is between those made-up quotes?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/15 06:02 PM
-2

So general discussion is fine, but not specific manifestations of sexism? You're not making yourself sound any better. Still just sounds like a rationalization of a double standard. I agree that stuff like that can be oversimplified in harmful ways. But that oversimplification is a lot more common in arguments against feminism than within it. And if they're not oversimplified, then they can be very useful in describing how sexism effects people's lives.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/15 04:50 PM
0

TGRs treat women as objects, robing them of agency. Feminists claim that all of human history has been men oppressing women - in other words, men have acted and women have had no agency. So in other words, when you acknowledge the fact that traditional gender roles rob women of agency, you're just stating a fact. But when feminists do the same thing, they're actually robbing women's agency by talking about it... Makes perfect sense. /s
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/15 04:36 PM
5

Well yeah. There's a difference between saying a short, negative statement about people, and being more diplomatic about it by balancing negative things with reasons, theories, positive sides to it, etc. The latter will get you better reactions from most people. I don't think that has anything to do with feminism; I think that's just a tool for effective communication. If you don't want people to think that you just think X group is bad, then if you criticize X group you should also show somehow…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/15 06:41 PM
0

The "nicer" options that you listed aren't any less accurate though. They're just more complex than the shorter statements.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/15 06:34 PM
15

So it encourages guys to not come off as judgmental... just to secretly think less of them and treat them differently? And then complain about women who don't participate in slutty stuff? How does any of this make sense?!
/r/PurplePillDebate23/02/15 11:10 PM
-4

And you're so concerned about the welfare of "the queers and coloreds" that you're spearheading more effective activism, I take it? No? What a surprise. Empty accusations of bigotry coming from a bigoted perspective.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/02/15 03:31 PM
5

If you have a problem with people making assumptions without asking for more information, then maybe you should give more information when asked instead of complaining that people respond positively to things that seem moral.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/02/15 03:13 PM
5

Just for clarity here: telling you to stop doing something is not shaming other people's behavior. Disapproval of red pill tactics is based on the premise that they're abusive. Pointing out abuse does not mean automatically blaming the victim ("shaming women" as you put it). Quite the opposite; it holds the abuser accountable instead of deflecting blame. Whether you think red pill tactics are abusive is a different subject. But holding women up as a shield from criticism is bullshit.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/02/15 12:57 PM
2

I don't think being a feminist means that you can't also be devoted to your partner. Especially if your partner agrees with your views on gender and preferred relationship dynamics. I mean, if you choose a partner who wants a different kind of life than you, then that's the mistake that will inevitably end the relationship. Trying to be something other than yourself will do the same. The relationship dynamics prescribed by RPW works for some people, but it doesn't have to work for you, and it do…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/15 12:46 AM
2

Does building a strawman with rhetorical questions make him stronger?
/r/PurplePillDebate01/02/15 01:21 PM
2

Oh please, keep explaining how this opinion (literally the context of this conversation) doesn't exist: I'm sure that there is a correlation, but TRP doesn't care. We're not going to go off and LTR men, we're going to LTR women. I'm fascinated. You're right, these are not the droids I'm looking for.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/02/15 12:29 PM
2

Sooo... Men who want LTRs should pursue a good mate, without wanting to be a good mate themselves? That sounds really ineffective. Self-improvement is based on one's personal goals, not your (sexist as hell) judgment.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/02/15 11:03 AM
8

I thought it was all about self-improvement. TRP doesn't shy away from telling men to work out to attract a good partner, so why would it shy away from other advice like "keep your partner count low" if there really is a correlation there?
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/15 07:44 PM
4

Two different groups. And why don't you think that's the answer to the original question? Women are also individuals with (gasp!) different opinions and desires.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/15 03:30 PM
4

You can't pretend that physical and emotional abuse are the same. As humans, we all get physically damaged in basically the same ways. Emotionally, context and intention create a lot more variation.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/01/15 08:18 PM
8

You say that as if women have never been coal miners.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/14 02:25 PM
1

Very true. Your advice just seemed a little stronger than the way I would communicate myself, or the way that communicates best to me I suppose.
/r/MensRights05/01/13 06:02 PM
3

I don't want to minimize the importance of raising awareness about the abuse men face. Just trying to say that it would have taken a lot less time for me to reach a balanced idea of domestic abuse if I didn't get berated every time I tried to talk about anything remotely related to abuse against women. Raising awareness needs to be done with tact in order to be most effective, and your advice sounds a little bit like propaganda-spreading itself rather than encouraging productive conversations th…
/r/MensRights04/01/13 06:23 PM
2

You are the one making judgements. The burden of proof is on you. There is no need to justify one's decision to not morally judge people.
/r/MensRights05/12/12 05:39 PM
6

supposed "victims" Aren't you a charmer. Literally victim-blaming. You're doing wonders for the face of the movement.
/r/MensRights29/11/12 04:03 AM
2

Are you sure you're responding to the right person? I said no such thing. I tend to think of trauma more in terms of lasting damage, especially mental and emotional. But I think it's pretty obvious to point out that there's zero chance of healing in any way if you're dead.
/r/MensRights28/11/12 06:19 PM
2

You don't have to agree with me. The whole point of piping up was to play the devil's advocate and show that there is more than one way to interpret the same types of experiences. Just try to remember that torture is mental as well as physical, and so is sexual assault. Anyone who's been through either will tell you that the mental aspect causes the most lasting damage. One reason for that is because it's so difficult to see from an objective perspective.
/r/MensRights27/11/12 11:32 PM
3

I understand that completely, and I agree. I apologize for the way that the arc of the conversation came across. That pattern is something to chew on and learn to avoid. I have to say though, I also have a hard time understanding how in the entirety of the comments here, the woman's experience was trivialized to "harassment". Honestly it's a bit disturbing to me. I didn't mean to minimize what the man in the situation was going through though. I meant only to respond to the specific comment that…
/r/MensRights27/11/12 05:05 AM
-1

If you can't follow a discussion when it leaves the original topic, then don't participate. It was explicitly stated that we were talking about real life experiences rather than the show about zombies. Chill dude.
/r/MensRights27/11/12 03:33 AM
5

Thank you for not making assumptions about it. I just thought it was worth pointing out that there's diversity in how people would rate the same kind of experiences.
/r/MensRights26/11/12 04:52 PM
25

As someone who's experienced both ass-kicking and attempted rape, personally I would take the beating any day. I didn't hate myself for years after getting the shit kicked out of me, or question if my entire value as a human had been stolen from me. I got support, because nobody told me that I deserved a beating or that I was overreacting. In that specific episode, yeah. Saying he got off easy is complete and total bullshit. But people experience different levels of trauma from the same type of …
/r/MensRights26/11/12 04:32 PM
1

I'm sure this post does wonders for advancing equality for men.
/r/MensRights08/11/12 05:56 AM
2

Yes, but why do you associate wanting alternative forms of contraception with "screwing everything that moves"? That wasn't said anywhere in this silly link, it came out of you. There's a difference between acting like a sex addict and simply wanting to enjoy sex without procreating, but you jumped immediately to the former. There's no logical reason for that.
/r/MensRights28/09/12 01:07 PM
2

Free condoms are actually ridiculously easy to find too if you're in the position of needing help affording basic things like that. Not so much with other forms of contraception, but I agree that there's no reason to treat condoms like they're less valuable to women than to men. I agree that this whole thing was silly, but slut-shaming isn't a great way to criticize it, though. We can measure value on things like being irresponsible or entitled, but not how total strangers 'should' express their…
/r/MensRights28/09/12 05:30 AM
0

You don't have to be so dramatic, objectifying somebody isn't illegal. It's just a mental attitude that many people find to be negative. You don't think anybody ever gets a bad reputation at work because they don't come across as a team player? Just because there's no word for that specific attitude doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. These things aren't new, and they aren't as extreme as you're painting them. It's just how people relate. Men and women usually want a partner who is attracted to…
/r/MensRights24/09/12 02:44 PM
1

'Objectification' is an idea, a word created to define a way of thinking. Harassment and sexual assault are physical actions. Defining the examples doesn't mean that there is no valid underlying concept.
/r/MensRights24/09/12 05:05 AM
0

Chill out dude... You asked. I've already said that if you feel like it was a miscommunication then everything's cool. But let me just add your instant hostile tone when the conversation turns to gender issues as something that puts me off about this conversation. Whatever, we're not getting anywhere...
/r/MensRights08/09/12 04:04 PM
1

I just found some things you said to be problematic, like saying that scantily clad women on the street is the same as pornography, or that to criticize pornography is the same thing as accusing all male sexuality of being demeaning to women. Could always be something that failed to translate into the conversation, of course. I was a bit blunt in the heat of the moment, but that's what I was talking about when I mentioned rape culture. I've got some stuff to chew on, as well.
/r/MensRights08/09/12 02:13 PM
1

Then we see the specific topic of pornography differently. That's fine. I really do feel that you should look into some of the attitudes that you've expressed, though. Sexism is counterproductive for everybody who's trying to work towards equality. I'll be doing the same after this conversation.
/r/MensRights07/09/12 06:47 PM
1

Why do you want an argument so bad? If you actually want to understand my stance, do some research into classic conditioning in humans related to sex and violence. "On Killing" is a good book, not about pornography or sexuality, but about the ways we can accidentally condition ourselves towards violence. The way that relates to pornography in your own opinion would depend on how you see porn, so you might come to a different conclusion about this issue. And that's totally cool. But if the proble…
/r/MensRights07/09/12 02:05 PM
-1

But there are more men than women. And despite the relatively high number of queer men, the majority are still straight. So, I thought it was most likely that I was addressing a straight male, since nothing about your communication style had tipped me off otherwise yet. Thank you for the statistics, and thank you for catching my slip into heterosexism. I'll really look into that. But frankly, hon, I say that because it's my opinion. Just like it's my opinion that valuing respect for women is not…
/r/MensRights07/09/12 05:16 AM
1

That's awesome! So am I, actually. I apologize for any heterosexism, I thought I had made a safe assumption considering the usual demographics around here. I still feel the same way about the issue itself, though. As a woman myself who is looking at both sexes in straight porn, I find that in a basic way, men tend to have more power and get treated with more respect in pornography. I didn't start watching porn until awhile after I became sexually active, and I noticed that my own tastes shifted …
/r/MensRights07/09/12 03:20 AM
0

I mentioned that, dude. I was also assuming that you're straight, so you're probably not looking to be learning any cues for when to make your move on guys... So while neither party is really having a good time, you're actively fantasizing about the woman, no? So over time, with enough time spent on 'hardcore' porn, you can associate feeling turned on with women who aren't enjoying sex. If it was unclear, I also already said that "flicking the rape switch" is oversimplification to the point of j…
/r/MensRights07/09/12 03:06 AM
1

As I see it, at least, seeing scantily clad people is very different than seeking out images of people having sex, male and female, who don't look like they're genuinely enjoying themselves. If nothing else, it dulls a person's sense of what true, uncoerced consent looks like. Having sex for money is a far cry from having sex because you want to have sex. Saying that anything "makes men rape" is oversimplifying the idea of subtle mental conditioning, plus it's disrespectful of men, who have the …
/r/MensRights07/09/12 01:39 AM
3

See, there's never been a doubt in my mind that what you described isn't exactly what rape culture is. Not that you're turning it on it's head, but that your example is a perfect depiction of one of the most extreme manifestations of rape culture that we have in our society. As I've always seen it, it's not just the idea that men are assumed to be predators and women as prey. It's also that men are assumed to be invincible (other side of that coin being, women as weak). Men's pain isn't taken se…
/r/MensRights16/08/12 05:38 AM
1

If you don't understand the meaning shown in the patterns of behavior in the groups you identify with, then you are just as guilty as the feminists you see misbehaving. I'm not even going to bother with the other moral and logical failings in your argument. This shit just isn't worth it anymore.
/r/MensRights14/08/12 06:12 PM
0

After taking some time to chill out, I did return to the discussion. I need to take time to process arguments, and it takes time for me to process and discard nastiness from other people too. So my forays into MRA territory usually end with me just giving up on trying to discuss gender in a community who has a high percentage of straight-up misogynists in it. It's the exact same argument I hear about feminism from you guys: why spend my time in a space that is hostile towards me? But I do believ…
/r/MensRights14/08/12 04:26 PM
2

I'll give that some thought... I really don't have any form of response besides that. Thank you for giving me something to chew on, and for doing it politely. Honestly, the biggest barrier to understanding what the MRM is even about is the hostility I experience any time I enter a men's rights space. It's really nice to read something that is put so well. It's so much more effective at getting across the information that needs to be considered by someone who doesn't yet agree with you. I will de…
/r/MensRights14/08/12 04:57 AM
0

Of course, and I knew even when writing it that it was a very weak analogy. Really I just couldn't think of a more appropriate example from the perspective of race, because that's usually a more cut and dry case of power disparity, where gender inequality is of course something that affects everyone, just in different ways for different people. I'm sorry if that came across as taking men's genuine issues lightly. I don't, and it wasn't my intention to say so.
/r/MensRights14/08/12 04:46 AM
2

Makes sense. Thank you for explaining your point.
/r/MensRights13/08/12 08:38 PM
-5

Congratulations. You're the inevitable angry guy that makes these conversations not worth having. It's just so very high school to quote the other person and respond to each point with angry, caps-lock ridden attacks. You, personally, are responsible for the loss of an ally and the increase of hostility between feminism and men's rights activism.
/r/MensRights13/08/12 08:32 PM
2

I don't know about that... I mean, doesn't training to use a weapon give a person power, even though the process of learning might be painful? I just don't quite see how that parallels, can you explain?
/r/MensRights13/08/12 08:26 PM
-4

It's nice to know that you have a system of society that you support. You also don't have a monopoly on the term patriarchy. Don't tell me what I think or what my movement thinks. Out of the two of us, who do you think is more well-versed on the feminist definition of the patriarchy? It is a culture. Everyone participates, usually because they perceive that it's a fair trade or that there isn't any other option. But on a basic level, it's because our culture shapes who we are. In the big picture…
/r/MensRights13/08/12 08:24 PM
-1

I understand, and I can see where the disconnect of communication is for you. I was only trying to illustrate what the same thing can feel like from a different point of view. For feminists, it's patriarchy, because that's something they care about. For you, it's the ways that they ignore or exacerbate the problems you care most about. That's very understandable.
/r/MensRights13/08/12 08:09 PM
-1

That's exactly what I'm saying? Privilege is defined exactly by being favored. Legal privilege is a form of privilege. We just have different ways of saying the same thing. Just like when I say that equality of women in the workplace benefited men by relieving unfair financial expectations of them, you might say more simply that chivalry is BS or women should have to work for what they have, too. Do you not see that we actually agree?
/r/MensRights13/08/12 08:05 PM
-1

I'm sorry to put words in your mouth. I just don't take well to mockery or hostility, and that's the tone I gathered from your first response. Stringing words together isn't a big talent of mine, but my point in defining "your issues" was that you can't hand over too much of the responsibility for other people not knowing about them or knowing their importance. I can't blame my friends for not knowing I had a bad day if I don't tell them. And you can't blame a movement for not knowing the need f…
/r/MensRights13/08/12 08:01 PM
4

I think that's a much better way to describe that disconnect than the way I've attempted to explain it. I talk a lot, but it's usually about something that only needs a well-chosen sentence. :)
/r/MensRights13/08/12 07:13 PM
0

The fact that we share in these issues is exactly what I mean. We totally agree on that front. I was talking about us, about our problems as a shared human race. In any cases that I wasn't, I was shedding light on a feminist answer to a question about what feminists think, which you sought fit to try to derail with a criticism of feminism itself. Please excuse me for not treating it like the circlejerk you obviously feel that this space is.
/r/MensRights13/08/12 07:05 PM
-1

You either recognize that special privileges are wrong and should be rejected, or you don't. You don't get to keep yours and ask other people to recognize and reject theirs. This may just be a difference of opinion on that level, but I feel that if we are discussing how women are reluctant to reject their privileges, being reluctant to recognize and take responsibility for your own makes for a weak argument, no?
/r/MensRights13/08/12 06:40 PM
4

I'm sorry about all of that terrible stuff that you've experienced. Real life is how these discussions always get so sticky... Being male doesn't automatically mean that you're on the top of the social ladder. Being white doesn't automatically mean that you have more power. And trying to talk generally about culture always glosses over the reality of what each of us have to experience. I was trying to talk about generalizations and historical patterns, but I didn't mean to minimize your experien…
/r/MensRights13/08/12 06:31 PM
-2

I think in the long run feminism has been fixing the big stuff because it needed to get fixed first. I also think that advocacy for women's equality helped achieve more equality for men, because equality is equality. And now that so many things have been achieved, I think this is the era where we'll look back and see that feminism could afford to shift focus and fine-tune the inequalities we all face, including men. We couldn't talk about parent custody until we made it possible for men and wome…
/r/MensRights13/08/12 06:15 PM
-6

And my point is that if you're talking about inequality, then I believe that the people on the bottom of the totem pole get to talk first. Not that anybody doesn't experience prejudice, or that their experiences are more important than anybody else's. I just think it helps balance the scales to give them the respect of approaching the issue on their terms. White people have experienced terrible things throughout history. Of course they have. We all have. Things are never simple. Sex, age, financ…
/r/MensRights13/08/12 05:35 PM
6

Everybody loves their privilege. Women love their privileges too, that's why these discussions can get so heated. But men don't deserve all the blame for patriarchy. It's a culture that everyone participates in. I mean, for hundreds of years footbinding was a huge thing in China. Frankly, mutilated women became a fetish and a status symbol. Footbinding made all of life incredibly painful for the women who were a part of this culture. It's one of the most extreme cases of oppression of women in h…
/r/MensRights13/08/12 05:18 PM
0

Noted, thank you. I wasn't very clear about that. I was talking specifically about American culture because that's what I know, and America has a history of race-based slavery. I was pointing out that the fact that a couple hundred years ago having black skin meant that you were automatically a member of the slave class, and that has reverberations that deserve to be listened to in my opinion. When I enter discussions about race in my culture, I think people of color deserve to speak first becau…
/r/MensRights13/08/12 05:10 PM
6

Actually it's not. Patriarchy is a system of society that benefits men above women. Your definition doesn't make sense and it isn't helping anybody.
/r/MensRights13/08/12 05:01 PM
-5

Yes. I think that's exactly where the disconnect is. I'm a feminist visiting this subreddit myself. I find that more and more often, discussions about feminism end up at least mentioning MRA, so I try to keep myself educated about what goes on here so I can discuss it intelligently. And I understand that it won't be a popular thing to say here, but here is my attempt at a logical and personal answer to why we tend to disagree. Personally, I believe that feminism can work for equality for everybo…
/r/MensRights13/08/12 04:55 PM
1

I try to balance my idealism and realism, and while I believe that education applied properly is capable of solving all of our most basic problems, I don't think it will ever be quite right. You just can't reach everyone. Some people lack the desire or capacity to learn, or already think they know and will die before reconsidering their opinion. Plus there's the sheer number of people in the world, and no way to know the best way to get through to all of them. On top of that, ideally we are alwa…
/r/MensRights02/07/12 03:53 PM
1

With the wrong kind of education, Christian communities can become very anti-Semitic. In other places and other times, people find themselves much more likely to say "oh, you're Jewish? That's cool." Both firmly maintain their respective religions in either case, they didn't have to lose a part of their identity in order to get along. They just learned how to agree to disagree on religion. Years ago, things overall on our planet were more violent, with more of a tendency towards domination or de…
/r/MensRights30/06/12 03:29 AM
2

Interesting article. I don't see what it has to do with men's rights though, all it does is point out biological differences and suggest modified training. Any competent trainer or athlete would want to optimize the use of their body, and it offers advice on that.
/r/MensRights26/06/12 07:24 AM
1

I never did read "The Watchmen". Watched the movie of course, but I don't usually like American style comics so I hesitate to spend my money one them. Did you watch "Chronicle" though? I've noticed that since that movie came out I've heard the term "apex predator" a lot more. Maybe I just didn't particularly notice it before. Sorry for the long response time, I've been working more hours than I can really handle lately. I get what you're saying about cultural relativism. I think though with how …
/r/MensRights26/06/12 02:41 AM
1

You know, it always takes me a bit for me to process what you say enough to have a response. You always have so much content in what you say. Honestly this time it took a drink to really absorb it. Deep thought and poetry always work better for me in that state. It seems to me what you're saying in short is that while prejudice in theory is wrong, profiling is a logical way to function in real life in some situations because of the patterns that society weaves out of people. And it is logical, b…
/r/MensRights21/06/12 05:28 AM
1

I really see privilege as the blank space prejudice causes. In my opinion the only answer in that case is education about prejudice on a personal level and education on a wider scope. That really is it to me. I mean, you can have lengthy conversations about how the legal system fails at this or that, but on a basic level it fails at those things because not enough people in the right places have learned the kind of values that good policies come out of. Sadly, not everyone pursues their own educ…
/r/MensRights19/06/12 08:28 PM
1

Glad I could help! I don't think there's a word for that phenomenon because it never really gets talked about, but I'm happy that I could help you see something new. I took awhile to just chew on what you've said about feminism and men's rights, and I think what rings so wrong to me about what you're saying is the fact that you're using the word "privilege" like it's something made up. As I understand it, privilege is the word to describe the experience of not being discriminated against. It's h…
/r/MensRights19/06/12 05:18 PM
1

Actually after your self-description, that makes a lot more sense. I hope this doesn't offend you, but if I met you in person I would probably not be talking to you in the way I am now. Most women have at least some history of intimidation or abuse and go through a period where they become very insecure around men in general, until they become mature enough to be completely over it. I know I still do that. I tend to be very up front about it and just straight up say something like "I know it's c…
/r/MensRights17/06/12 07:37 PM
1

lol, sorry I didn't realize how long I rambled. I always seem to jump on opportunities to analyze and discuss things; I don't get the opportunity very often.
/r/MensRights17/06/12 04:08 AM
1

Honestly the book wasn't in those kinds of terms... The author is a journalist so basically all of his knowledge is from researching topics he can sell articles on. That's part of why I like most of the stuff he writes; he's very down-to-earth, an easy read but always quirky topics. It's all about applications of gut feelings, referencing psychological research about how they can be accurate, but also the problem of when they can be trusted since there's no telling what your "feeling" is based o…
/r/MensRights17/06/12 04:06 AM
0

Not at all! You're a really interesting person to talk to.
/r/MensRights14/06/12 05:25 AM
1

Well, even a smart person can be a douche that's always quick with an excuse for their behavior. I think using the words intelligent and intellectual interchangeably is a mistake though. Which makes me realize that my first comment made exactly that mistake... :/ I actually get what you're saying a lot more in that case, intellectualism is hard to find. In another way, though, making that distinction makes your question more puzzling to me because, while I don't have many friends who I can have …
/r/MensRights14/06/12 04:50 AM
1

At the risk of sounding arrogant, I would identify myself as an intelligent woman, and I have a pretty sharp asshole radar but you don't seem to be on it. From the sound of it, you do seem to have high standards for the people you surround yourself with, which is a good thing. From what you've said here one thing you may want to question about your opinions is; why do you say intelligence and emotions as a dichotomy? Women do tend to be more openly emotional, between biological and societal infl…
/r/MensRights14/06/12 03:28 AM
2

honestly I'm too lazy to find the ads online that I've seen in LGBT centers before, but yeah, I always thought it was cool of them to be so gender neutral. The problem of not addressing female violence towards men is still an issue, but I think that's more because they like having their space for supporting same-sex relationships. The only criticisms I tend to hear are that they aren't inclusive enough of bisexual and transgender people by focusing only on gay and lesbian relationship violence. …
/r/MensRights18/04/12 02:06 AM
0

I take it you don't spend a lot of time in the queer community then. In environments that aren't heterosexist, gendered messages are a lot less common. I'm not saying that there isn't a problem with not holding women accountable for domestic violence, but again, if that's an important issue to you, make ads for that. I don't think it's inherently sexist to draw attention to this issue.
/r/MensRights17/04/12 01:13 AM
1

I believe the goal is to identify assault as at least as serious of a crime when it occurs within a family, since the opposite subconscious opinion is a problem in dealing with this issue. The ad also ties that statistic in by pointing out that the majority of violence towards women actually occurs as domestic violence. It's a poster, not a research paper, dude. It's raising awareness of a social problem, one that apparently you aren't very aware of, if that number is so surprising to you. So I …
/r/MensRights17/04/12 12:52 AM
1

Awareness ads about domestic abuse in colleges are aimed towards preventing dating violence and violence within marriages, and the vast majority of people date and marry people of a different sex. Violence is a problem across all demographics, but addressing the straight, white, sexually active population in a college strikes a chord with the most people, no? I get that the image has that connotation, but I also notice that you didn't have anything to say about the language in this ad, and that'…
/r/MensRights17/04/12 12:41 AM
1

I remember when I recognized that privilege, growing up on the other side of that. Women and girls do have privileges to reject, just like men do, in order to actually work towards equality. Personally, that issue was one of the first things that helped me realize that people were not treated equally. For me at least, it is easier to recognize injustice towards others than injustice towards myself. It took more reading and more maturity to educate myself on other forms of injustice, and to becom…
/r/MensRights16/04/12 10:27 PM
1

Judging by the percentage of people I have personally met, that is actually a pretty accurate estimate. Why don't you find that number believable?
/r/MensRights16/04/12 10:11 PM
3

In what way? It is an ad focusing on one issue, which does happen to be about women, but it seems to me like the people who made it were careful not to demonize or blame men or anything like that. Other ads focus on domestic violence against men, and it's not sexist that they only talk about men. If your issue is that you aren't seeing any telling that side of the story, make one. The world could always use more people who care about equality.
/r/MensRights16/04/12 10:07 PM
9

That would be the same fallacy as reading only extremist feminist sites and then assuming that women never rape men, and any man who says otherwise is lying. Yes, some women are horrible liars who ruin men's lives through false rape claims. Some people are also horrible rapists whose crimes are made easier by people sensationalizing the liars and encouraging well-meaning people like you to not be an effective ally if someone close to you tries to tell you about their experiences. It is a good th…
/r/MensRights16/04/12 09:58 PM
1

I do understand that. My point is that feminism is also not an organization, and they have trolls too. It has been organized in the past, but like you said yourself it's so diverse now that it's completely decentralized. Ideally though, if equality is the goal then feminists and men's rights activists should be working towards the same thing. I am not saying that you are being disrespectful towards women and I'm sorry if that came across, but the issue of alienating feminism over their trolls ju…
/r/MensRights11/04/12 03:02 PM
2

So by that logic men's rights would have to weed out every single male supremacist before they should be taken seriously? Because that strikes me as counterproductive thinking if you are trying to contribute to equality for anybody. Give others the same respect you ask for your own causes. That's how we work together towards all of our goals.
/r/MensRights11/04/12 05:50 AM
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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