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BaileysBaileys Archive

View 2 posts and 622 comments by BaileysBaileys on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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Upvotes Title Category Author Subreddit Date (UTC)
11

Social IssuesBaileysBaileys/r/MensRights10/12/17 10:05 PM
6

GeneralBaileysBaileys/r/MensRights27/05/18 12:19 PM
Upvotes Comment on Subreddit Date (UTC)
2

'hatred of others for their self compassion' ... That is such a good way of phrasing it! Thank you.
/r/MensRights05/08/22 12:21 AM
0

Hey, fellow feminist and masculinist here. Generally you won't have a good time on this forum when you come forward as (also) a feminist, and so I don't participate a lot here anymore, but it's good to know others like me exist!
/r/MensRights04/08/22 05:37 PM
1

I agree with you. I am a woman and sometimes call myself MRA but due to the hatred I'm reading in this sub towards women (and enormous hostility every time I have written anything here, no matter how small) I am not so sure anymore that I support the movement. I will always support men's rights as I have always done so based on feminism (and believe there is a lot to be improved, e.g. compassion for men and boys), but I am not sure I am comfortable supporting the MRA movement seeing that it rejo…
/r/MensRights22/07/22 10:38 AM
2

Thank you so much :)
/r/MensRights19/10/21 10:25 PM
2

Thank you so much! As a female MRA it is so important to me that the community remains prohoice and doesn't become a cesspool of prolifers. That would make it impossible for me to help. Glad there are people like you here too.
/r/MensRights19/10/21 10:24 PM
1

Thank you! You seem like a great person :) It's sometimes hard supporting men's rights when I read comment threads like this, where some men seem driven by some kind of wicked anger at women, and exude joy at being able to harm women by forced gestation. That's an awful human rights violation, and I cannot understand how some men are so low on empathy that they would revel in the thought of a woman forcibly needing to have a fetus grow inside her. I mean, come on, that's why the film Alien gives…
/r/MensRights19/10/21 04:59 PM
1

the prevailing opinion is that isn't enough time for most folks True. I also want to add that my cycle was never 4 weeks but more like 5-8 weeks, and currently I do not have any periods since I use birth control, hence would be very unlikely for me to notice a pregnancy between 4-6 weeks (4 weeks being the earliest gestational time when tests work).
/r/MensRights19/10/21 04:39 PM
1

Thanks :) Bit of a ranty text incoming sorry (since you already agree, so you don't need to hear this :-). I personally don't "count" condoms as the same thing, for various reasons (1) amongst the lowest protection of all bc, (2) can be forgotten or not available in the moment compared to e.g. IUD or pill which you take in the morning (3) I have understanding for the fact that not everyone likes them, man or woman. There can be a wish/pressure from both sides not to use them. (And I don't agree …
/r/MensRights09/09/21 01:22 AM
1

Agreed. Sorry, I see now how my statement "I am fiercely prochoice" may have signalled that I thought you were not, but I meant it more in a way that "because of my fierce prochoice-ness, maybe you think I'm against considering men's feelings in this, but I'm not". I've actually never before spoken with a man who expressed this feeling of hurt, but not in order to push prolife legislation. With prolife men I found it hard to talk about this, as they have an ulterior motive. So this conversation …
/r/MensRights07/09/21 11:18 PM
1

I'm a woman and fiercely prochoice, but that's fair. Pain is pain and you should be able to talk about it. Sorry for what you went through. It's a bit difficult for me to imagine as I'm childfree but you clearly felt much pain.
/r/MensRights07/09/21 10:40 PM
1

But it's not that the woman has to trust male bc. It's that if both exist, each partner can protect themselves (both using bc would be even better).
/r/MensRights07/09/21 10:23 PM
1

Well, I am quite shocked at how many are in this thread are advocating for it. (For example adoctorswife saying "If an abortion is done out of convenience, both parents should be required to get consent for an abortion.")
/r/MensRights07/09/21 10:20 PM
5

This makes no sense, because then men would have jumped at the opportunity to be stay at home partners as soon as more women went to work with the help of feminists. However, in large part, men did NOT stay home. If they had, it would not "take two incomes to support a family in most places" as you say. Why do you think that is, that few men stayed home in response to more women working, if as you claim that is what they dreamt of? I think in the back of your mind you do know that women stayed h…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/06/21 03:42 PM
5

If men always had that opportunity, then why did you say "Yes, men have goals and dreams, but they're about leaving their job and not having to work for somebody anymore." They'd just leave if it were that easy. So either they want to work because they need self-actualization like everyone does (which you denied), or they feel socially pressured to work (which you also denied). I disagree that women always had the ability to choose to work. There was a tremendous societal pressure for women to s…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/06/21 02:45 PM
4

Well, you do you :) Though I know for a fact that there are many men who also enjoy their job and the money that comes with it, because I work with them and we talk about these things. But anyway, I think that's something both feminists and MRAs want, for men to be able to choose also to be a stay-at-home partners. Basically, for people of both genders to have more freedom to choose.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/06/21 02:01 PM
7

In their foolishness, I think feminism has worked as hard as they can to deconstruct hundreds of years of socializing men to be protective of women. I am a feminist (and an MRA) but I would say it's simply not a man's responsibility to "protect women". You can if you want to, but you don't have to anymore than I have a responsibility to protect a stranger. What if they actually were able to completely deconstruct our socialized masculine mores, (i.e. "Never hit a girl,")? Maybe I'm wrong, but I …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/06/21 11:15 AM
3

Like, you see men spending their lives working all day to make somebody else rich and you....you want that? Yes, of course! It's called self-actualization and it is one of the fundamental needs people have (see Maslow's hierarchy). Wanting to have fulfillment by producing something. Women have goals and dreams, just like men do, and a job is one of the primary ways to achieve a sense of fulfillment. Also a great way to boost the second of the human needs: esteem (need for respect, status, recogn…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/06/21 10:43 AM
1

Even less than a century ago. My mother was fired in '73 as standard practice when she married my father.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/06/21 05:06 PM
0

I see. Well, the OP talks about: The pro-choice crowd and you said: "these people" so that suggested to me to refer to "the prochoice crowd". I am part of the "prochoice crowd" (and an MRA) hence I am here to help clear up some prejudices for you.
/r/MensRights25/05/21 04:02 PM
0

Because you asked me a question directly. And made an implicit accusation of hypocrisy inside the question. So I answer to clear up your prejudices.
/r/MensRights25/05/21 03:21 PM
1

Yes, why would you assume not? Strange how you acknowledged nothing of what I said.
/r/MensRights25/05/21 08:08 AM
1

I appreciate your comment. It's for me very hard to understand incels (I am female) even though in general I *want* to have empathy. The way you explain it provides 'hooks' to attach that empathy.
/r/MensRights24/05/21 05:49 PM
1

Thank you, means a lot to me that you say that. (female MRA, finding it quite hard that someone like that To_Soldier gets so many upvotes and a reasonable person is downvoted).
/r/MensRights24/05/21 05:45 PM
0

Certainly. In that case I would be very supportive of 'paper abortion'.
/r/MensRights24/05/21 05:34 PM
1

Not true. I am prochoice and care enormously about men. That is why I am a female MRA. We value bodily integrity, hence we're also intactivists. I do expect you to also have that same respect for women and be prochoice.
/r/MensRights24/05/21 05:29 PM
1

WTF??? I am a female MRA and thought we were the good guys? Now you are here spouting nonsense about why I am prochoice? Childbirth damages a woman in the most intimate and painful way, do you guys not see that? You should be ashamed of yourself.
/r/MensRights24/05/21 05:27 PM
1

Agreed.
/r/MensRights24/05/21 05:24 PM
1

WTF!! This makes me so angry as a female MRA. We are damaged by childbirth. You ass.
/r/MensRights24/05/21 05:22 PM
2

Thank you both /u/Lrdofthewstlnd and /u/TCPOAbuseInColorado Just wanted to say that I absolutely agree. In fact, I am both a feminist and an MRA. When I post that here, I usually get a lot of hate and aggression, because people have told themselves feminists are "evil" so they can't accept it that I call myself a feminist also. I must be destroyed at all costs. The way I see it: from what I have seen from the MRA community, I could equally decide that the whole MRA community is toxic and evil. A…
/r/MensRights02/05/21 04:41 PM
1

I mean, that depends on the person. I am a feminist and an MRA so obviously you wouldn't need to "approach" me or "change" me. You just need to not be hate-filled about women or feminists, it's all that's needed. I'm an MRA because I'm interested in men's rights and advocating for men's rights, and so likely would welcome whatever you want to say.
/r/MensRights26/04/21 03:44 PM
1

I mean, it doesn't have to completely be 'upside down' but if women do not feel shamed and ask a guy out in a certain portion of cases, I don't see the problem with that.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/03/21 05:24 PM
2

This should raise a shitstorm from us MRAs though. We are against bodily rights violations (like mgm).
/r/MensRights17/02/21 05:09 PM
1

I am so annoyed by these idiots who try to talk about taking rights away from women because they are the reason its hard for us to get listened to. Thanks. As a female MRA it is quite hard to read through this thread. I want to belong to the "good guys", not some hate group that wants to gravely violate women!
/r/MensRights17/02/21 05:03 PM
2

I'm still very skeptical about the thought of a man having more control over a woman's body than she does herself. Thank God. As a female MRA it is quite shocking to reqd this thread and see how many MRAs are happy to violate women and believe they own women's bodies. Fortunately there are good MRAs too.
/r/MensRights17/02/21 05:00 PM
2

Thank you, from a female MRA.
/r/MensRights17/02/21 04:46 PM
2

Thank you from a feminist MRA :)
/r/MensRights17/02/21 04:41 PM
1

Understandable. It's just that for me, the MRA movement also has that public image (and I've certainly met many MRA men whom I consider misogynists) and I still don't back away from the MRA movement, because I care about men's rights. Because both feminism and MRA movement do exactly what their name suggests: advancing the rights of their respective associated genders to get as close to equality as possible. Ans both groups have radicals that I don't want to be associated with, but I can live wi…
/r/MensRights10/02/21 07:34 PM
2

Thanks for your understanding. I agree with you exactly in your description of Menslib. Extra thoughts on this topic (if you'll indulge me): Menslib is also a bit too tame for me because I don't mind criticism of feminism and believe it sometimes has a place. Otherwise men cannot express where they feel feminism is limiting them and their rights. I just mind the type of criticism that I suspect is simply a mask for being upset at emancipation and being upset that women dare ask to have their rig…
/r/MensRights10/02/21 07:29 PM
1

I agree you can flip it around. It may be my point of view because I am a career woman so I see the work out of the house as the prize. I'd say men have to push equally as much as women to work parttime, so they have more time to do housework/childcare, just like women have often had to do (but which I consider a 'punishment' because you don't get to work towards your goals/ambitions).
/r/MensRights10/02/21 03:45 PM
1

I see. That's reasonable. As I just wrote elsewhere, on reddit the Egalitarianism subreddit is essentially run by radical MRAs. It almost never mentions anything about women's rights. And it is my feeling that egalitarianism is often a mask for men who want to fight for men's rights (as I also want) but not for women's rights (as I also want). So a bit like radical feminists but opposite gender. This is why I am not an egalitarianist but a feminist MRA or MRA feminist.
/r/MensRights09/02/21 06:15 PM
2

True but on reddit the related subreddit is essentially run/ruined by radical MRAs. It almost never mentions anything about women's rights. This is why I am not an egalitarianist but a feminist MRA or MRA feminist.
/r/MensRights09/02/21 06:12 PM
2

Thanks, I'm a feminist MRA (or MRA feminist) and I think this is also how I would describe it. People like yourself really make a difference, because rather than polarizing you make it easy to work together.
/r/MensRights09/02/21 06:06 PM
1

This is what I never got about the feminist movement. Names which inherently contain But we are in the men's rights movement, which inherently contains male focused concepts, no?
/r/MensRights09/02/21 05:55 PM
1

> being a feminist is hypocritical as would be a 'masculinist' But we call ourselves MRAs, so that could also be interpreted as not wanting equal rights for women.
/r/MensRights09/02/21 05:53 PM
1

I do think there is also the fact that women are compelled to do more of the housework, so not being able to work equally long hours.
/r/MensRights09/02/21 05:50 PM
1

Completely agree.
/r/MensRights09/02/21 05:11 PM
1

Thank you, that is kind.
/r/MensRights09/02/21 05:06 PM
1

Well perhaps some women are angry, but I bet many other women are happy. I know I am. What could be better than *both* myself and my partner being able to protect ourselves against an unwanted pregnancy? But anyway, it's not about whether woman are happy about it (it is about men now having better protected reproductive rights), and I would have liked the POST more if that hadn't been the focus. Not everything has to be about getting back at women. Can we just celebrate advances in male birth co…
/r/MensRights09/02/21 05:03 PM
2

Just wanted to quickly say it was nice e-meeting you, and thank you for reacting kindly even from the first comment. Some mras react quite unpleasantly to me being a feminist and seem to forget that I'm also an MRA. So I appreciated this :)
/r/MensRights09/02/21 01:57 PM
2

Thank you, from a feminist MRA. I truly appreciate you saying this as I've not been able to make this point without receiving quite hateful comments in return.
/r/MensRights09/02/21 11:03 AM
3

Thanks for the tip! I'll check him out. If he tends to rail against feminism I'm probably not going to agree with him on that point, but it's always interesting to see another perspective and certainly the legal system part could be interesting for me.
/r/MensRights09/02/21 12:36 AM
3

I see. This does happen, and I'm sorry for it. I'm simply one of the feminists for whom that is not the case. I can probably understand them a bit, being a woman; it can feel very scary to "give men more power" even if it is simply rightfully so in a certain area where men are disadvantaged. Especially when like me you debate prolifers all day and feel like there are loads of men out to get you (in regards to abortion rights). But you got to look at the big picture: everyone deserves their right…
/r/MensRights09/02/21 12:24 AM
2

That's okay! :) Happy to answer. I think I don't fully understand the question, can you please elaborate?
/r/MensRights08/02/21 11:47 PM
0

, where the big names of the first wave were from, Eh, no? We had our own feminist movement.
/r/MensRights14/01/21 11:20 PM
0

In many countries vote was never linked to comscription, but simply to being a citizen, just like taxation.
/r/MensRights14/01/21 10:38 PM
1

Suit yourself.
/r/MensRights13/01/21 10:20 PM
-2

I don't entirely agree that men's rights activists are for gender equality. We are for men's rights in the same way that feminists are for women's rights. We don't (generally) go and discuss where we should improve women's rights. But as I said, you are welcome to hold your views and I'll hold mine. I'm sure there's a place for both of us in the movement. And I'm certainly not going anywhere just because you don't believe I can be both. But anyway, this thread is about intactivism, not about whe…
/r/MensRights13/01/21 10:01 PM
5

You are welcome to hold on to your views.
/r/MensRights13/01/21 09:13 PM
1

Perhaps, and I'd definitely be willing to stand up against those feminists. But I I feel the same way about some MRAs who really seem to use the movement only as a way to pander their misogyny in a politically correct fashion, which is not very nice for me as a woman either, and yet I don't walk away from the MRA movement. My main point was: why welcome someone and then immediately put in special effort to make them feel unwelcome? Unless the real message was that I'm not welcome as an MRA becau…
/r/MensRights13/01/21 09:09 PM
1

Yes, this is me sometimes. I'm a career woman. I think "Oh my god, why are you doing that to yourself!" (being SAHM). But then I step back and remember that not everyone has the same hopes and goals in life. I don't want children (and in the unlikely even that I'd go through pregnancy *for* my partner them I'd want *them* to stay at home) so obviously to me that seems like a horrible life. But that doesn't mean it is, for someone else who isn't me. They might actually be super happy with it.
/r/MensRights13/01/21 06:34 PM
2

Why be welcoming and unwelcoming in the same sentence? This doesn't really make me feel welcome at all.
/r/MensRights13/01/21 06:14 PM
1

I wasn't raised either left-wing or right-wing, and also not feminist. I just grew up and found I value both feminism and the MRA movement, so I am both.
/r/MensRights13/01/21 06:13 PM
9

Yes, as a female MRA (and feminist), I try not to be at the forefront of this discussion, so I hope this is okay, but it seems obvious to me. It is the same type of bodily autonomy which I ask for "myself" (e.g. regarding abortion rights). So indeed a no-brainer. Judging from your username, we are from the same place, where it is not widespread culturally. But I still makes me angry that it's not forbidden! What I find most difficult is, when a man says that I am stigmatizing/body-shaming them (…
/r/MensRights13/01/21 01:41 PM
-1

Sorry, I don't agree with Karen Straughan. I am indeed a feminist MRA. Also I never said sexist feminists aren't feminists? Just like sexist MRAs are still MRAs.
/r/MensRights13/01/21 12:37 PM
5

Just confirming Oshiio's statement that we do exist. Also pro-choice female in favour of the option of parental surrender.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/01/21 11:18 AM
1

I do believe that is suffering, too. It's an imbalance. It could mean women are less likely to feel they can pursue a career. Suffering doesn't need to always be something grandiose. Just like men complain about always needing to take the first step in a relationship. (And the emotional labour of that as well.) You could say 'next time men will be demanding payment for asking you on a date' but that negates the very real point that it's difficult to always be the one to ask the other out.
/r/MensRights13/01/21 11:14 AM
0

I am a female MRA and feminist, and have watched it before. But I did not really 'get' it. All the things she seemed so "enlightened" by were all things that I stood for as a feminist (and then later MRA) already. The things she said, any normal compassionate person would already think on her own. I kept waiting for 'the red pill'. Not saying she did anything wrong, and highlighting men's issues is great of course, just that I did not find it revelatory as a feminist, as I already held those opi…
/r/MensRights13/01/21 11:04 AM
1

Because feminism is opposed to men's rights on the strongest terms. Erm, no? Is the MRA movement opposed to women' rights? Also, you yourself have issues with this... Yes, if you go back, it was in response to radical/misogynist MRAs. Does that mean the entire MRA movement is intent on subjugating women? I don't believe it is, fundamentally. It just wants rights for men in the areas where they are disadvantaged, and rightly so.
/r/MensRights13/01/21 08:26 AM
1

Por que no los dos? :-)
/r/MensRights13/01/21 12:24 AM
1

Just out of curiosity, are you then going to split hairs and declare I'm supposedly not an MRA because you predecided what I should answer to be "allowed" by you to be an MRA? No thank you. I'm an MRA because I want to help men and have them achieve equality in the areas where they are disadvantaged. I can only do this by being an MRA, reading on these forums (especially since I am a woman), and participating in the movement. Sure, it could be that there are things you see differently. But you d…
/r/MensRights12/01/21 01:12 PM
1

Excuse my language, but that's a shit excuse for egalitarians not talking about women's rights. You don't need to be feminist to post about women's rights; that's the whole idea of egalitarianism.
/r/MensRights12/01/21 01:06 PM
3

Thank you for this calm and balanced answer. I agree with this. I am a feminist but also a (female) MRA for the reasons you mention. I have previously advocated for men's rights under the umbrella of feminism, but as you say, men's rights issues don't directly affect me, so it's wasn't all that easy to do. It definitely makes sense to have a men's rights movement led by men :) And I can definitely support both :)
/r/MensRights11/01/21 09:28 PM
1

I felt this was a very balanced and honest answer, and I think you are very right. From a female MRA and feminist, this is very much appreciated.
/r/MensRights11/01/21 09:14 PM
-1

I don't believe it is. If you go to /r/Egalitarianism, for example, you will almost exclusively find posts about men's rights, and most posts bashing feminism, whereas the subreddit as the name suggests is supposed to have posts on the rights of *both* genders. So sometimes 'gender equality' is automatically identified with men's rights.
/r/MensRights11/01/21 09:10 PM
-1

Sure. Jordan Peterson, absolutely hate him and he is a prominent and very influential academic. Warren Ferrell is a political scientist and I find some of his books have promoted misogyny. I found Karen Straughan very abrasive, but she is celebrated by the MRA community. Then I'd also like to add that, I feel that in feminism there is a large majority who is more silent but also more reasonable than some of the radical feminists in the spotlights, I feel that within the MRA community the wider m…
/r/MensRights11/01/21 07:43 PM
0

I mean, as a female MRA I have the same aversion against some of the prominent and most influential MRAs. Some of them are genuinely misogynistic in my view. It makes me uncomfortable to associate with the MRA movement, but still I won't give up. Because I am the movement just as much as them. Because I care about men's rights.
/r/MensRights11/01/21 06:09 PM
-4

Totally agree with you. I am a female MRA, and a feminist.
/r/MensRights11/01/21 04:14 PM
1

This is not true. I know women who need to pay child support.
/r/MensRights11/01/21 02:06 PM
2

I mean, you can have custody of an aborted baby, I'm fine with that.
/r/MensRights11/01/21 02:05 PM
1

As a female MRA, I think I love you haha :) Completely agree with this.
/r/MensRights11/01/21 02:03 PM
1

I really appreciate this! I don't think you have to view the fetus as a parasite, and most prochoicers would agree that a new organism begins at conception. There are prochoicers who throughly dislike abortion (though I myself do not). What I think is important is to look at it from the point of ethics/human rights. Do people have the right to use other's organs and genitals non-consensually? No. So even though the fetus is cute, it is there by permission (from the woman), not by right. And so i…
/r/MensRights11/01/21 01:47 PM
4

Agreed! :) Although it still doesn't sit well with me that a man can have a child against his consent (since you can't force anyone to have an abortion). Having a child is huge deal and I would like there to be a "right not to have a biological child", but don't know how to solve that issue without violating any human rights. But the least we can do is not force the man to pay child support when they didn't agree for the pregnancy to be brought to term.
/r/MensRights11/01/21 01:28 PM
1

You're basically saying that a fetus is a parasite. I mean, by definition it isn't because it's the same species. But yes, you are right, it does have a parasitic rlationship to the pregnant person. It attacks their organs. I view it as a human being that needs to be taken care of And that is fine, so long as you don't use your feelings to damage others by forcing them to remain pregnant against their consent. I said that that's the argument that pro child support people use when trying to justi…
/r/MensRights11/01/21 01:23 PM
0

I will take responsibility by having an abortion. That is the most responsible choice in my opinion.
/r/MensRights11/01/21 01:18 PM
4

As a female MRA, completely agree. We need to do something about the latter situation. I think the least we can do is have a window where he can indicate he will not accept the child and thus not pay child support. This does require excellent and well-established abortion rights for women.
/r/MensRights11/01/21 01:17 PM
2

Thank you for your compassion, from a female MRA.
/r/MensRights11/01/21 01:10 PM
2

Abortion to me is killing a life that has already begun. To me it is also a life that has already begun. But I don't find that in itself very important information. Because it is attacking someone's internal organs, I can easily reconcile with it being killed. Emotionally it is also easy since, if you abort early, it is not much bigger than a pea. I don't value an embryo or fetus as much as a born person for this reason. It's an embryo, so I'm going to value it as much as another life of the sam…
/r/MensRights11/01/21 01:08 PM
3

As a female MRA, thank you for your empathy, and I agree with your position.
/r/MensRights11/01/21 12:53 PM
3

Ah, I see, thank you. We'd probably not get along then, because I am fervently prochoice :) I believe it is important women can have elective abortions at all stages, and would have one myself if I experienced an accidental pregnancy. And I believe that when abortion access is made an inalienable, well-established right for women, then we can also have a full abdication of child support for men within the period where a woman can have an abortion (so the longer the abortion limits, the longer th…
/r/MensRights11/01/21 12:50 PM
2

Ah, okay, so you are not actually against women's right to abortion access? Sorry, I misunderstood.
/r/MensRights11/01/21 12:36 PM
0

You seem insane. Wanting to torture a woman. As a female MRA makes me furious.
/r/MensRights11/01/21 12:29 PM
1

What the fuck. It's her body. As a female MRA I am furious you support torture of women.
/r/MensRights11/01/21 12:27 PM
1

Thank you, from a female MRA.
/r/MensRights11/01/21 12:27 PM
1

You're nicely avoiding to answer again. What you are talking about *after* the change. The question was about how to make the change: by pulling both sexes' privileges up to the others' level or tearing both down?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/01/20 07:22 PM
1

You could answer 'both' or neither' to be more clear.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/01/20 06:51 AM
1

You did not answer his question?
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/20 10:47 PM
3

You accidentally put the full stop in the middle instead of at the end. ;-) ​
/r/MensRights03/03/19 10:55 PM
1

Indeed, if you want children, that demands sacrificing. And men also want children. So it is fair to consider both partner's life goals if both want children. In my case, I do not want children but my partner may perhaps want them. I may be convinced to do the childbirth, but since I am not the one wanting children, I could not be convinced to then also take on the childcare role just because of some notion that "couples are happier in traditional roles". However, I get tired of the endless crie…
/r/MensRights24/02/19 10:59 PM
1

These studies always talk about what makes couples 'happiest' or 'what people value'. But people are individuals and they do not talk about what people want for themselves, separately from their relationships. Even if it were to make me somewhat less happy in my relationship, I want to make something of this life. I want to develop myself and for that I need a job. But I think we as people constantly echo it is important for men to contribute most financially and for women to care well for child…
/r/MensRights24/02/19 10:24 PM
2

Thanks. That's of course completely unfair with only men having potentially these huge consequences. There's also something fishy about the government being able to force other people to fight and perhaps die, but then at least don't discriminate on gender. We did have mandatory military service for men only until somewhere around 1991. It was never attached to voting rights though. Now there is still conscription (by which I mean: can get called to serve in the event of a foreign invasion) and …
/r/MensRights24/02/19 10:06 PM
1

Convenient for you to think that :) Going to work is way more fun!
/r/MensRights24/02/19 09:46 PM
1

Can you explain how that works? What is elective service? Do they not send you a voting invitation/card if you're male and not signed up? I'm from the Netherlands and we don't have this. It seems to me completely outrageous to exclude legal citizens based on anything other than age (here you cannot vote if you are younger than 18).
/r/MensRights24/02/19 05:25 PM
1

Thanks for your further explanations, which I agree with. As a female MRA I am deeply hurt by you saying I am sexist. Can you elaborate a bit more on what you found unfair in my comments so that I can maybe learn and but mainly I ask because I need to heal from this?
/r/MensRights23/02/19 05:15 PM
6

I did not like the OP's spin on this, but this is a fair remark. I did not actually know men could get postnatal depression and thought it was from the hormones from pregnancy. Thanks, TIL!
/r/MensRights23/02/19 01:02 PM
1

Thank you. I don't mean to be too forward since this is a men's rights sub and I am a woman. But when a post is unfair it's difficult not to say anything.
/r/MensRights23/02/19 01:00 PM
1

Yes, it is true that me saying 'we women have to ask our partners more to take care of the children' is not a simple solution in practice, and also I did not mean to imply that men would be unwilling to do that. There are a lot of hormones involved in pregnancy, and the oxytocine surge is of course meant for women to bond very strongly to their babies. It's another reason I do not want to have a pregnancy, because for my work I need a clear mind and I know pregnancy can affect it. That must have…
/r/MensRights23/02/19 11:56 AM
-1

Sorry, I take offense in your title stating " after they choose to have a baby ". Many times, couples will together have chosen to have children. It is insincere to then depict women when they postpartum depression resulting from the pregnancy as greedy for being supported. And what Arby01 said, too.
/r/MensRights23/02/19 11:10 AM
3

Yes, you are. 'Worth' lies not in what's been done to you, but in how you treat people.
/r/MensRights23/02/19 11:00 AM
3

Am woman, totally agree. When you love each other, you accept each other's bodies. Maybe I have an 'ugly' scar from a surgery and they have been subjected to mgm, and though you wish you could change it for them, you accept them as they are.
/r/MensRights23/02/19 10:58 AM
3

> Men and women make different choices and that’s completely fine, I am a woman and want to make a small remark. The question is of course whether it's always a choice or someone giving in. I wouldn't feel capable of (nor want to) 'making' my partner take care of the children. As I have career aspirations and little wish for children it is not a problem in my case. But I am quite sure that if both me and my partner wanted children, I'd still not feel confident to ask him to quit his job and take…
/r/MensRights23/02/19 10:50 AM
1

Eh...I know a certain man who was not only given a voice but elected president for it... Idiot men definitely do get a voice.
/r/MensRights23/02/19 10:38 AM
2

I'm a female MRA and for me it's quite important that these things are also posted. I think it makes me feel that male MRAs do see when people try to help men. I know that's perhaps petty, but also quite human I think to want to feel that your support actually makes an impact.
/r/MensRights23/02/19 10:35 AM
2

I completely understand that feeling, it's very unfair when people do that. I've sometimes experienced it too (for me from the other side of course).
/r/MensRights22/02/19 12:08 PM
2

The article is based on a documentary by the BBC (plus their article on it), which was aired yesterday. I don't see the problem with dailymail in this case since it's true just the same, but it is not true that no better news outlet existed and you would use it if it existed.
/r/MensRights19/02/19 02:53 PM
3

They actually borrowed it from the BBC. It is based on a documentary about this victim that the BBC broadcast yesterday.
/r/MensRights19/02/19 02:48 PM
1

The BBC is pretty mainstream here.
/r/MensRights19/02/19 02:30 PM
3

if the police showed up to a violent situation between a couple, despite whos actually hurt, hes probably going to jail I feel it is not completely fair to say that without mentioning that that is untrue in this case. The police showed up to their violent argument after a neighbour called the police, and seeing he was actually hurt, she went to jail. (Edit; it's also the UK, maybe different than US?) The police did admit that they do not recognize domestic abuse of male victims quick enough yet.
/r/MensRights19/02/19 11:05 AM
2

Thanks! :) On a positive note, the person saving him was the policeman, and the victim's male friends clearly never stopped hoping for his safe return. I saw some solid humanity there, coming both from men and women.
/r/MensRights19/02/19 12:11 AM
3

Inescapable 'I am a woman' and just want to say I don't see posting this as painting women as evil. It's very necessary and important to post this! And it is exactly what I would expect to see in a men's rights sub (I was looking to see if it had been posted or whether I should). The only way it will annoy me is that there are of course going to be a couple of MRAs in the comments who are going to grab their chance to pitch that 'women are evil and we should punish them'. But yeah, that's bound …
/r/MensRights18/02/19 10:00 PM
2

This is a social medium. I am a woman. I applaud this documentary.
/r/MensRights18/02/19 09:47 PM
1

They advertised it on their news app, in fact.
/r/MensRights18/02/19 09:45 PM
4

Very shocking story and a very well-presented/respectful documentary. I admire him for speaking out, so soon after all of this unfolded. It's a relief to see him relatively happy in the end.
/r/MensRights18/02/19 09:39 PM
1

To be fair, when I have to do demonstrations for high school boys, that's exactly what I have to teach them, too. Science is fun! With explosions and glowing stuff and bright colors. Imho this is not a gender specific issue.
/r/MensRights04/11/18 10:02 AM
1

Cheers, thanks for answering! I understand. I'm off to bed now and too sleepy to think, but maybe will come back to it when I have time.
/r/MensRights04/11/18 01:28 AM
1

No need to be insulting mate :) We're all here with the same goal. It does make me wonder if would you would also look at it that way with men's issues. For example higher homeless problems, mental health problems and suicide rate; I feel that there's a component to that where society puts more pressure on men to be 'successful'.
/r/MensRights04/11/18 01:10 AM
1

Speaking for myself here, but for me it's definitely a 'nurture' thing that I wouldn't approach men at the bar. I mean, I am free-thinking about gender roles so I might push myself to do it, but there's definitely an element of "I am doing something bad" when I do that. I feel like I'm considered 'not classy' if I do that. It really does feel more out of a societal influence to myself at least.
/r/MensRights03/11/18 11:52 PM
1

I see. Hmm, yeah, as a female MRA who is also a feminist that of course saddens me. But hopefully at some point after that people become understanding of each other.
/r/MensRights07/10/18 11:03 PM
1

That's not anti-feminist, just anti-women. And a lame joke at that imho, but humour is of course very personal. ​
/r/MensRights07/10/18 03:13 PM
5

Well as a female MRA I have a great problem with him. Also, I really don't understand how a man like that can be elected. This man is clearly not impartial, which is the main point of a judge!
/r/MensRights07/10/18 03:01 PM
2

Seeing your unwillingness, I don't feel like arguing with you. Whether you willing to see the contributions or not does not change the fact that they're there and often overlooked. It's okay. You make me angry to have to be an MRA but the cause is important to me.
/r/MensRights05/10/18 07:25 AM
1

It bugs me when the achievements of women are brushed aside so easily as the CERN guy did when he said "physics was built by men", I find that very unfair. It feels to me that by saying "physics was invented by men" all contributions of women are made to vanish and all contributions by men are made to fill up the entire discipline, if that makes any sense. Made more hurtful by not even considering how of course gendered roles prevented women from contributing more. (I typed this elsewhere but ho…
/r/MensRights04/10/18 05:05 PM
4

While that is indeed sad, I mean to say that we're/reddit's not innocent ourselves if we perpetuate that trope by saying 'she must have regretted the sex'. Don't do it.
/r/MensRights03/10/18 07:58 AM
3

Plus, it's only weird in the States where it's a habit. In other countries the opposite is weird. It's just such a pointless argument to go by; it's the boy's body, one shouldn't change it without his consent because *other people* might have an opinion on how it looks.
/r/MensRights02/10/18 09:07 PM
4

because at least with FGM the gender of those effected will never support the practice, but with MGM a high majority of men support and encourage its continuation. Just a small comment; In the countries where FGM is perpetrated, actually the practice is supported by women. Often the mother and grandmother are the ones to bring the girls up for FGM, and the practitioner can be a woman. It's just that in most western countries FGM is not supported by either gender, and MGM is supported to a certai…
/r/MensRights02/10/18 08:56 PM
11

Tbf, I have seen comments on Reddit suggesting that a female victim must have regretted the sex and that that is why she accused the man of rape.
/r/MensRights02/10/18 08:41 PM
2

True that religious guys also were often in science. Now if they were monks they also had a lot of time on their hands. But then again nuns did, too :) I do agree interest may play a role as well, I'm not offended by the suggestion that men gravitate more towards 'finding out how stuff works' than women. I personally wouldn't even be offended if anyone thinks men are on average smarter than women. Because even if that were true (though I don't think we have reason to believe it), that wouldn't n…
/r/MensRights02/10/18 04:25 PM
2

My point is that these 'few crazy guys' are guys because from the pool of all people, the chances that they were not held back by society was higher. Oversimplifying but: if we have 100 test subjects, and we give 50 of them an education and no taxing caring responsibilities, and the other 50 no education plus a daily task of caring for children and the message that success is having/caring for children, then which group has the higher chance of producing the more scientists? I would say it's sim…
/r/MensRights02/10/18 03:51 PM
1

No, because as a female MRA and female physicist, I am indeed offended by his words and do not support him.
/r/MensRights02/10/18 01:07 PM
4

Thank you. As a female MRA and female physicist I appreciate your nuanced statement. It was needlessly hurtful of him to state that it that way. We all know that for the most part of history women were denied education and it was expected for them to become full-time mothers; of course under these circumstances you're going to have fewer female physicists than male physicists. It's dishonest to then act as if "men are better at physics because look at history". It also seems very dismissive of p…
/r/MensRights02/10/18 12:58 PM
1

I find this way too harsh. I am a woman and a feminist (and an MRA btw) so you can bet I can get angry about this type of thing if I feel it's unfair for women ;-) But here I empathize with this poor man and can understand his probable anguish in disclosing his condition. That should be taken into account as a mitigating circumstance. I feel that little harm has actually been done to these women. Yes, they've been lied to, but they've not for example had sex against their will (rape). I don't se…
/r/MensRights07/09/18 05:53 PM
1

Thanks for this. It really helps. I just read a few too many of those women-hating comments on here that were not called out. In combination with reading a couple if times that female MRAs were treated so much better, that made me really annoyed. I know there are mostly honest, decent MRAs, and that of course we are going to have some spillover women-haters from other groups, just by the nature of our group. Probably I of all people should know how that goes, because I am not only an MRA but als…
/r/MensRights29/08/18 08:57 AM
2

No, they do not get 'murdered in the comments' unfortunately. This comment in another tread got 64 upvotes: " If only women were the same way; it seems they're largely willing to oppress and dominate men to the extent they're capable (which is to say the extent they're able to manipulate men into doing it for them). " Very difficult for me as a female MRA.
/r/MensRights28/08/18 11:15 AM
2

Thanks for this! I needed this right now, as a female MRA. I just read again a comment here saying, in short, 'women are pure evil, it's their biology'. Also someone saying: "It always will because at the end of the day any power a woman has in the world is power a man at some point in the food chain has allowed her to have." So offensive for me as a female MRA. Almost makes me want to call it quits, but I try to remember that whatever assholes come in here, it's the goal that I stand for, same …
/r/MensRights28/08/18 11:12 AM
1

Guess I'll stop being a female MRA then. Seeing as I am evil according to you. LOL I keep reading that female MRAs are being treated better than male feminists. I certainly don't feel this way because of your comments.
/r/MensRights28/08/18 10:17 AM
1

Thanks for your understanding. No need to be sorry though; I'm not missing anything in terms of love and joy :') It's just annoying that it appears as if people want to convince me otherwise. Because if I followed the advice, had the child and hated it (the experience, my life), then I would be considered the bad mother, not them.
/r/MensRights20/08/18 04:02 PM
3

Very true of course. I do want to add as a female MRA I do notice the same mindset among too many male MRAs about women. "Women are evil." I will support the case anyhow, but that point is frustrating for me, especially when it is often said that the MRA community does not treat female followers the way feminists treat male feminists.
/r/MensRights20/08/18 01:09 PM
1

Though only if you actually want children, I think. Because as someone who does not want children it can be a bit hard sometimes to hear this expressed so often, as if it's a rule, when I know for sure the experience of having children would for me be the most sad, despairing experience I would have.
/r/MensRights20/08/18 12:23 PM
3

I am a female MRA and disagree. I have often felt mistreated here, just for giving my opinion if it was ever so slightly different from what other MRAs felt. That doesn't mean I will not support the MRM; I think it's very much necessary. I also think the maltreatment of 'them' (in this case me) is a bit inherent when you have an 'us vs them' type of group. But I don't like hearing this myth that the MRM treats female MRAs better than feminists do male feminists. It's at least not been my experie…
/r/MensRights11/08/18 09:11 PM
2

Interesting point. I am a woman and I identify as a feminist and an MRA. I get a good amount of hate sometimes because people here don't like it when a woman doesn't consider herself an anti-feminist (especially if in addition I am pointing out the female perspective of why I think women do this or that -- which I do because I feel that is something unusual I can bring here), but I feel it is the correct description for me. It sort of helps me focus on different parts of human rights. When there…
/r/MensRights11/08/18 02:54 PM
1

I do feel for you, but I do want to say for balance that I am a woman and was also pulled aside to tell me this, when I volunteered to work with children. I assumed it was standard practice to remind volunteers of this, and I appreciated the reminder. But I can see how if you are a man this must be annoying because of how society is around men and children.
/r/MensRights11/08/18 02:35 PM
7

I think it must vary per person. I am a woman who does not want kids because honestly it seems so exhausting compared to going to work. Mentally exhausting I mean. I don't like interacting with kids at all and then 'as a break' doing housework seems like the worst way to live my life. And I certainly couldn't handle it at 6 hours of sleep. On the other hand, I love my job and I often work from 9am-9pm out of my own will. So for me, being a stay-at-home parent absolutely seems the hardest. But if…
/r/MensRights10/08/18 10:57 PM
1

Well that's a negative way of saying it, but personally if I wear makeup (I don't normally do) it is indeed because I want to look into the mirror and enjoy seeing myself. So I agree with OP.
/r/MensRights10/08/18 07:36 PM
-3

Why is this met with derision here? A woman was standing up for a man! It's what this subreddit is asking for usually. That in hindsight the person didn't deserve it seems less important to me.
/r/MensRights09/08/18 08:48 PM
1

Well, I can only offer a personal account (N=1), but I have no children so that has not factored in. I hope it does not sound arrogant or 'full of myself' but I just feel like I have a reasonable sense if fairness and empathy and thus I find it kind of logical that therefore I am pro men's rights. I've also been treated excellently by men all my life so I don't harbor any feelings that could jeopardize my empathy (e.g. resentment if you had a nasty divorce. Then it is just going to be harder to …
/r/MensRights07/08/18 08:45 PM
1

I agree that that vilification of men happens and is bad. I do not agree with your broad statement 'seeing men as people is difficult for them'. Also I wager that many cat ladies are not unhappy therefore nothing is biting them in the ass :) Do notice that vilification of women does happen btw, and is particularly noticeable in this sub (a bit understandable of course given the topic of the sub and that it attracts a considerable number of men who are hurting). It is not at all uncommon for peop…
/r/MensRights07/08/18 05:30 PM
1

I never considered that, that's actually important. Although someone above explains midwife means 'with women' (and so in that sense it is gender neutral), I can still see how the word may cause fewer men to perform this job. Would be good to have an alternative word. My native language does have a gender neutral word btw (translates to 'person with knowledge of the birth process').
/r/MensRights07/08/18 04:18 PM
3

Well, the thing is, you don't have to. It's not obligatory even though society may make you feel like it is. I also won't marry (although I'd reconsider if my boyfriend wanted this deeply).
/r/MensRights07/08/18 04:03 PM
1

> You seem to have become defensive, maybe I inadvertently hit too close to home. Yes, I am defensive, because I am a female MRA and I do not want to be part of it if this devolves into some movement where people have these stereotypical views of women. I was promised the MRA movement wouldn't do that kind of thing. It would be inclusive, empathic, and welcoming to anyone interested in men's rights, and it would not fall pray to describing the other gender as evil. I am angry that the MRA moveme…
/r/MensRights06/08/18 10:37 PM
0

I interact with women and men daily for work and as friends (am woman myself btw) and see no difference. I do see that in general people who are not very empathic and nice tend to do spew venom towards the opposite gender.
/r/MensRights06/08/18 10:31 PM
0

What? No, what rubbish. I understand that you like to believe that because you enjoy thinking negatively about women.
/r/MensRights06/08/18 10:23 PM
1

I mean, the piece is supposedly from the male perspective. Avoid men like this entirely (I don't mean OP, who kindly deleted the post, but the narrator).
/r/MensRights06/08/18 05:49 PM
2

That's very nice of you, not everyone does that. I find it very hard actually and admit that I don't always admit stuff :') But more importantly, this is the first time I feel listened to as a feMRA when I was not just supporting male MRAs (rather giving a female perspective). Thank you.
/r/MensRights05/08/18 11:48 PM
1

Thank you.
/r/MensRights05/08/18 11:28 PM
2

Thank you for this. Some people ... go a bit off the deep end. They think their anti-women stance is what defines Men's Rights, whereas their thought process is much more similar to those feminists who think men conspire to oppress women. I understand, they're hurting from a difficult break-up or an abusive relative. But it's still not the right way to go about healing. I think for some people blaming a whole gender is sometimes easier and less painful than learning how to be empathic, to see th…
/r/MensRights05/08/18 11:07 PM
1

Sorry, this is all a bit too "theredpill" for this female MRA. I must've missed the meeting where we women conspire to "suppress" the male half of the world by not having sex (same as I assume you didn't go to the meeting where it was discussed to 'oppress' women -- equally silly thought). And of course recording someone without their consent is just criminal. What would you say if a woman recorded you? Is empathy really that hard for some people?
/r/MensRights05/08/18 10:54 PM
3

> just want to love and be loved, but I can't. I am a disgusting man, I am terrified of authority, I break down into a crying mess every time I am involved in a situation involving police because I'm so fucking terrified of being hurt. I'm not confrontational, I can't get a job, or a raise, or a fucking girlfriend. I am not a man, I'm a mouse, a fucking useless mouse, and I hate myself. Dear xyzyx, I have no idea if this helps but there is nothing wrong with you. You are a man as is, no need to …
/r/MensRights05/08/18 03:30 PM
1

Yes, this is a great trait of men, being so brave and strong and goal-oriented :) Masculinity is good! Am a women, feminist and MRA myself so I can't agree with the title of the post -- also because I don't subscribe to the term 'toxic masculinity' which I find a stupid term -- but the event itself is of course fantastic. And just to amicably annoy you a bit: a woman would have done the same thing alone :-P https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/humankind/2016/01/12/teen-girl-uses-crazy-strength-lif…
/r/MensRights05/08/18 03:07 PM
1

Okay, we agree then. Apologies for my sarcasm above. I saw a bit of maliciousness towards women in your comment (enjoying if they got custody much less often than men due to them being more often stay-at-home-parents at this point in time), and being a woman myself it rubbed me the wrong way.
/r/MensRights05/08/18 02:50 PM
2

Implying that '(all) men are dicks' is indeed misandrist, in my opinion.
/r/MensRights05/08/18 02:45 PM
1

You say 'not a single woman does that' yet you haven't even asked them. And then you answer your own answer in the way that fits your narrative.
/r/MensRights05/08/18 02:40 PM
1

My thought process is the same and I also don't feel a need to have children. So now we have N=2 :')
/r/MensRights05/08/18 02:38 PM
0

That would mean that if you are abused by your spouse (m/v) you couldn't 'get out' if you are financially dependent on them.
/r/MensRights05/08/18 02:36 PM
1

Except if the person who can support the child is the mother, right? /s A child needs both parents, except for cases of abuse or severe and damaging mental problems of the parent. The most logical solution to me seems automatic joint custody.
/r/MensRights05/08/18 02:32 PM
1

Well I am pro all that, so the statement 'Feminists oppose all that' is not correct of itself. If I meet other feminists who do oppose it, I tell them my opinion. That's not so different from when I meet other MRAs who are not opposed to male circumcision; I tell them why I think they should be against male circumcision. So for me it's not really about 'choosing sides' as I feel the two movements fundamentally revolve around the same issues but just look at it with a different emphasis. I also d…
/r/MensRights22/07/18 11:15 PM
3

You are right.
/r/MensRights22/07/18 10:46 PM
1

I'm sorry you haven't had good experiences with feminists. But you're speaking with one with sympathy for the MRM, so now you cannot make the same statement in the future.
/r/MensRights22/07/18 10:37 PM
1

Take it as you will. I'd just be highly surprised if I were some kind of 'special snowflake'. If there's me then likely there are many like me. I'm an MRA, so you can rest assured that I'm for men.
/r/MensRights22/07/18 10:29 PM
4

The foreskin certainly has a purpose: it acts as a natural lubricant and protects the 'head'. So in that way my point that removing the foreskin is bad is even more true than what I already argued.
/r/MensRights22/07/18 06:45 PM
6

Well I am a woman, but I feel that nobody has the right to cut parts off my body without my consent if not medically required, so likewise I feel no one is allowed to cut parts off male babies without their consent. Not only is it non-required medical risk but you cannot know whether they will have wanted to have the foreskin. I react the same way as I would if parents cut nipples off of their baby boys. Even though the boys won't need the nipples, it's still wrong i.m.o.
/r/MensRights22/07/18 05:08 PM
2

Well, I'm a woman and even I think girls talking about that are extremely rude. Everyone is allowed a preference but who are they to judge other people's bodies like that? Rather weird as well given that a non-circumcized man is the non-altered version. I wouldn't speak negatively about a circumcised man either, even though they are in the minority in my country and so the practice is very very strange to me, as I know it might be medical or they might have not been able to consent to it since t…
/r/MensRights22/07/18 04:56 PM
1

I am a pro-MRA feminist. On this sub I get attacked if I don't absolutely stick to only supporting men (which is understandable as people are angry/grieving), so for that reason I don't hang around here much anymore, but we do exist. edit: actually I think I am an MRA and a feminist, so maybe that's not the same as a pro-MRA feminist.
/r/MensRights22/07/18 04:23 PM
1

While I can now completely see where you are coming from, I always understood this as a statement that is degrading to women. Basically saying 'women are such naggers that they will make everyone unhappy if they don't get what they want, and so the easiest way for men to be happy is to just appease them'. I've always been offended by it myself. So I'm really surprised your female relatives use it, and even worse to get what they want. And give it an interpretation which is sexist to men. Maybe y…
/r/MensRights30/06/18 05:22 PM
2

You are right! I do apologize for being misinformed. Thanks for pointing that out. Very glad he is free. I can only hope the princess can be freed too, but it's not looking good.
/r/MensRights30/05/18 07:16 PM
1

There are way more pro-life women then their are pro-life men. In the Irish referendum by percentage more women than men voted to repeal the eighth (66% of men and 72% of women). So that women are more pro-life than men is a questionable statement. But you are right that it is not a women vs men issue at all. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/26/ireland-votes-by-landslide-to-legalise-abortion
/r/MensRights27/05/18 08:05 PM
3

That's a no true Scotsman fallacy.
/r/MensRights27/05/18 07:19 PM
3

Myself :') I'm super reasonable of course, haha. I'm also an MRA by the way, if that helps. Obviously I do not automatically go with 'feminism is bad' so this has sometimes angered people, understandably not everyone likes me here and I get regular insults.
/r/MensRights27/05/18 07:15 PM
3

Victim blaming. Abuse is abuse, whether you could have seen it coming or not.
/r/MensRights27/05/18 05:42 PM
3

No, staying married should never be the security. That way if I beat him or cheated on him, he would have to stay with me because financially dependent. That's just not right.
/r/MensRights27/05/18 05:32 PM
1

I wouldn't feel comfortable if I didn't have to pay anything. I mean, that way what security is in it for my partner if he stays at home? I think on this viewpoint I can then not align mine with rest of the MRM.
/r/MensRights27/05/18 03:17 PM
2

I'm surprised to see so many of my fellow mra's here react sarcastically. I thought they'd welcome the increase in female alimony payers, because one of our arguments is that it's not fair for men always being expected to provide. I'm also surprised about the headline, because being female it does not suprise me at all that I might have to pay alimony; that's just a logical (and fair of course) consequence if we women start to work more. The word 'duh' comes to mind.
/r/MensRights27/05/18 12:42 PM
3

You see, your last sentence makes it very difficult for me as a female MRA. I mean I am thankful, but I am also thankful for all the other women existing/existed. I can't really pinpoint why that sentence makes me annoyed. I guess because it's a one way street. Maybe because I also wouldn't say "men should be thankful for the existence of women". It just seems arrogant and foolish to me to ask another group to be thankful for the existence of your group. It irks me when feminists do that, and it…
/r/MensRights03/04/18 08:13 PM
6

It's not about the article for me; but posting it here has a particular reason of course. Apparently the audience likes to hear about studies where negative points about women are presented. The point of the article is not to bash women (it's a study), but the point of posting precisely this article on this subreddit is. Such posts give me a feeling that we're not purely about men's rights, but we also just enjoy hearing negative things about women. That has a place, but conflating the two seems…
/r/MensRights27/02/18 09:27 PM
5

I know I'm going to be put aside as an SJW, but there's no need fight for men's rights by bashing women.
/r/MensRights27/02/18 04:36 PM
2

I think you're comparing with the wrong situation; the control experiment here would be if you did not receive compliments either way. Then I think yes, I think I would still like to look at myself favourably. I do think there's at least a some human drive where you want to like the sight of yourself. Call it vanity, or more positively perceived a very human wish to look well (I believe even primates are known to enjoy adorning themselves! :) Some people even dress to their likes when these are …
/r/MensRights26/02/18 10:03 PM
2

(Of course, why does it make them feel good? Because they get positive attention for it.) I kind of disagree. Of course it's true that dressing the part will get you positive attention, but I'd argue that is the same thing as that we react more positively to a nicely groomed man or a man in suit than someone more unkempt. I see that as quite general. However, as far as I can judge myself and I'm trying to really be honest with myself here, it's because throughout the day I look in the mirror and…
/r/MensRights26/02/18 08:42 PM
1

Thanks for your reply. I'm not sure that I agree that I 'want to have my cake and eat it'. I don't feel that what I describe is wanting two irreconciliable things. Rather I recognize that what is my preference may not be representative for all women, and that men are 'allowed' (for lack of a better word) to compliment women on things they like, even if it irks me when traditional female roles are accentuated. And indeed, men are allowed to say negative things about women, although that is a new …
/r/MensRights26/02/18 08:18 PM
0

Just because nobody replied yet, I wanted to say that I find your post beautiful :) I also know I am one of those women who sometimes reacts negatively towards comments (especially if by men...unfair I know) where women are being praised for their femininity. This is because I myself feel restricted by the bounds of being expected to be feminine. I enjoy looking feminine, but for example I am not great with domestic skills because I care more for work, and have few feelings of nurture towards ch…
/r/MensRights26/02/18 12:48 AM
1

That's a different point, I'm not here to say that men have invented less than women (though I'd argue women also have not been given equal chances throughout history). But you were being dishonest by saying it was a man who invented that, just to suit your narrative. Especially painful since women's contributions have already historically been overlooked or downplayed anyway.
/r/MensRights26/02/18 12:22 AM
1

False question. They don't hate feminity. I understand that's not a popular opinion here because most mras dislike feminism, but we have to be above this type of self-congratulatory stuff. I'm surprised, I'd think as MRAs we'd also not be too fond of food being specifically designed for women. Like women need to be treated extra well. I personally find it rather silly, crisps for women.
/r/MensRights25/02/18 08:09 PM
1

The dish washer was not invented by a man. You were just assuming that, weren't you?
/r/MensRights25/02/18 07:54 PM
1

You're right, thanks. ESL It's not a zero sum game i.m.o. We can have attention for both kinds of people. Like for example I wouldn't be outraged if someone brought up legitimate issues of racism against whites.
/r/MensRights24/02/18 06:22 PM
1

No, because I also don't look down on myself for being a female MRA. It's great that male feminists want to help women, and it's great that you and me want to help men. And we're all needed, there's plenty of issues to advocate for, there's room for us all.
/r/MensRights24/02/18 05:43 PM
3

I don't get it. Why was it an eye opener for her? I am a woman and know that this is how it goes. I would have to pay alimony in my case if we were to marry (which I would accept, but I do not wish to marry for other reasons, unless perhaps if my partner wanted it).
/r/MensRights07/02/18 10:00 AM
2

I am a feminist and an mra, and completely agree with you. Your two above posts are also so well-worded and with empathy. Just wanted to say that.
/r/MensRights28/01/18 07:41 PM
3

Are you sure you want to use that argument? /r/feminism exists too. But yeah, I agree that both genders lack equal rights, be it on different fronts. And I don't understand why both sides are so accusatory every time the other side expresses interest, resulting in them never collaborating properly. It bothers me.
/r/MensRights28/01/18 07:31 PM
1

Women who are MRAs get respect in their communities, but not on here, at least not if they happen to also be feminist (obviously I mean in the egalitarian way). This has been difficult for me.
/r/MensRights22/01/18 05:07 PM
3

Well, I am. So I don't understand why you think I should be enraged by this statement?
/r/MensRights22/01/18 04:38 PM
2

There should be good samaritan laws against the latter of course, but not every country has those.
/r/MensRights03/01/18 10:44 PM
19

No, this study was based on data from before Weinstein.
/r/MensRights03/01/18 09:09 PM
2

Hi, thanks for this link. It is useful to me. I am a feminist and female MRA but intend to try not to be on this subreddit anymore in 2018 as it makes me a bit bitter towards MRAs despite also the nice interactions I've had (though the subreddit keeps pulling me back because I'm always interested in men's rights, so I don't know whether it'll work out). Of course I understand that the negativity towards me has to do with me being a feminist (not a feminazi btw, and pro men's rights from the star…
/r/MensRights03/01/18 03:15 PM
1

Good. Hopefully some progress.
/r/MensRights21/12/17 01:01 AM
1

Agreed. I would even go further: I think that if we women had the same amount of physical strength and testosterone as men do, we would rape the same number of people. So now we can all feel equally bad about ourselves being 'potentially rapists' (if given the opportunity or the physical strength). But then I don't know what to do with that feeling...why does the potential matter? The point should be that most of us don't/haven't and that's the only thing we can know with some certainty, not wha…
/r/MensRights21/12/17 12:59 AM
1

I'm a feminist and I've watched it, but since I already agreed with / advocated for all the points made, there was not too much for me to learn personally. To be fair I've always focused on men's rights as they are my favorite topic (am now also an MRA) so that's not too surprising. But good documentary for people who have really never thought about issues from a man's view.
/r/MensRights21/12/17 12:48 AM
2

These skeptical quasi-feminists who don't know what feminism is really like That's a 'no true scottsman' fallacy. Those people are also feminists even if you don't think they are "real" feminists because they are not against men's rights. The argument works both ways.
/r/MensRights21/12/17 12:41 AM
2

But it works both ways. Likewise, you cannot say that those female friends and family are not 'real' feminists because they use it in a positive way. That would be a 'no true scotsman' fallacy.
/r/MensRights21/12/17 12:35 AM
1

I'm happy to concede that you're an exception. That's kind of you I think. Only thing is of course that I almost only know feminists who are like me, but perhaps I gravitate towards like-minded people? Also I find it strange to think that I'd be somehow "special" - much more likely that I am not a special snowflake at all but just one of many I'd think. No, actually you did say "way of life". Apologies, I was indeed totally wrong there. I was convinced I remembered it correctly, but no. ('Way of…
/r/MensRights19/12/17 12:15 AM
4

should make you feel good in yourself Yes it should...but of course it doesn't. Well, it would if it were just that (no appreciation - for example in regards to gay rights that was never an issue for me, as far as I recall) but it has to balance out the negative responses towards being a feminist. But that's enough complaining; recently I feel I've received kindness on here even after initial arguments, from people like yourself. Many men that fight for good causes (many causes that directly ben…
/r/MensRights18/12/17 11:50 PM
4

Please say 'some feminists' instead of 'feminists', so that I as a female MRA and feminist can also feel somewhat appreciated for my efforts. It's often more accurate than saying "feminists" anyway. Thanks. Also, thanks OP!
/r/MensRights18/12/17 10:18 PM
0

I am going to be annoying here, but in the other thread someone indeed said that. No one objected to it or called them out. In fact got over 10 upvotes. https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/7ka81f/will_misconduct_scandals_make_men_wary_of_women/drd8erz/
/r/MensRights17/12/17 08:15 PM
1

I wish that feminists didn't hate MRAs. I'm thinking about that question, but most MRAs here have given up on it. Hi hixidom, just wanted to say thanks for this. I am a feminist and female MRA. For me it's just been the struggle that as a feminist I've mostly focussed on men's rights, as I find that more interesting and more pressing. Then I learned that the MRM exists and obviously I had an interest; I became a female MRA as well. However I have been very disappointed by the backlash I've recei…
/r/MensRights17/12/17 07:30 PM
1

I literally just talked to somebody who think it's a "way of life". I want to jump in here because Aloysius is talking about me here without linking the statement. Now the statement is a bit distorted because I am probably the most MRA feminist you'll ever meet (in fact I am also a female MRA, and have a whole list of men's issues which I advocate for and find very important). I don't believe in things in patriarchy, rape culture, or toxic masculinity. But I indeed find feminism a way of life (n…
/r/MensRights17/12/17 06:46 PM
2

wtf?
/r/MensRights11/12/17 09:24 PM
1

t's just this is a subject that feminists use in order to dismiss women on male rape But here nothing was dismissed at all, since there was even a scene discussing female-on-male violence. So if you 'suspect' the BBC of being feminist, then you have to commend them for that. Anyway, I as a feminist would never use male-on-male rape to dismiss female-on-male rape. That's horrible.
/r/MensRights11/12/17 09:23 PM
3

Hey, I'm the same as you! Also feminist and strongly pro men's rights (a female MRA in fact). Nice to meet you.
/r/MensRights11/12/17 09:15 PM
3

Well I'm feminist (and female MRA btw) and very strongly anti-MGM, so I don't know that that's a given.
/r/MensRights11/12/17 09:11 PM
1

Yes the UK is weird on that. I hope it changes. In my country there's gender-neutral definitions.
/r/MensRights11/12/17 12:07 PM
2

Well there is some mention of that too. The policeman indicates that it they have not always responded correctly to male rape victims because they've always been trained that men are the perpetrators and women the victims, and continues to assure that big changes have been made recently, so that men are recognized as victims of rape too. We also see a scene in a meeting where violence on men by their female partners is discussed. But the three men that spoke out in person and not anonymously as …
/r/MensRights11/12/17 09:39 AM
1

To make rape of men more easily discussed. Some people still look down on men who are raped whereas they are the victims and so that's victim-shaming.
/r/MensRights11/12/17 09:21 AM
1

Why? You don't believe men can be raped?
/r/MensRights11/12/17 07:32 AM
1

Of course you may! Thanks for the question. Nothing outrageous I think, but: I want equal compulsory parental leave for fathers. Of course this will be good for men as it will allow them to bond with their newborns as they should be allowed and hopefully it will also change the way society looks at men (that they are equally as good carers). So I strongly support that as a female MRA. But you asked me for my feminist standpoints and from a feminist perspective I want this because it will be good…
/r/MensRights10/12/17 11:50 PM
1

Hmm, I've considered it, but it does not do it for me. Like you said, you lean to the MRA side, so I think you feel some kind of 'activity' or 'motivation' when you think about being an MRA. I feel the same when I think about being an MRA. And also when I think about being a feminist. It's more active, it makes me feel more like I need to do something. When a woman says "men are scum" I think "wait, I'm an MRA, I should not keep silent". Egalitarianism does not really do that for me. It doesn't …
/r/MensRights10/12/17 10:57 PM
1

Well, I disagree with that notion of feminism of course (not disagreeing that there are indeed feminists who do think that way). For me it's a viewpoint which helps me take full responsibility of myself. Most people here also have no problem with Prof Christina Hoff Sommers being a feminist so your story is not the full account.
/r/MensRights10/12/17 10:44 PM
10

Hey, I'm really sorry you had to go through that. I feel aweful for you. In my country circumcision is rather rare, but I still want it prohibited. I'm strongly against it and don't understand how it's still allowed to cut pieces off somebody without their permission or medical need (I'm a feminist by the way, just because of the snide remark in the end).
/r/MensRights10/12/17 10:36 PM
3

I'm not scorning anyone.... I'm sorry but I did not say you were, did I? Men's rights kinda folk tend to be a hell of a lot better at calling out people for things that actually matter than feminists do... I believe that was the first point I made, and I feel it's a bit unfair to make this point to me whereas I was with you on that in the first place. ("But I think we're already pretty good at that and generally calling people out on that when they say or post such things.") Not liking feminism …
/r/MensRights07/12/17 12:11 AM
5

Thanks for the kind response. My choice is unfortunately not out of solidarity (sorry for that! :) but several other reasons. For one: I find love a personal matter that I do not feel obligated to declare in the presence of other people than my partner, and I feel there is way too much pressure on the relationship being eternal (vows etc) as if, say, a twenty year relationship is less 'worth' - even if I fully intend my love to be eternal but why the pressure to make that promise if we both don'…
/r/MensRights06/12/17 11:45 PM
6

Hmm, yes you are right, that's a valid point. Men are indeed much more judged than women are on whether they are successful and wealthy. I reacted to the headline 'an sich', whereas it is of course referring to the article so specifically to this point of inequality. Thanks for explaining :)
/r/MensRights06/12/17 11:22 PM
17

Why limit the headline to men? I am a woman and also don't see a reason to marry. But yeah, what this woman doesn't seem to understand is that that argument then goes both ways. Why doesn't she buy an expensive ring for him? What prevents her from working her ass off?
/r/MensRights06/12/17 09:12 PM
3

That's going quite well. Its not very hard really. Maybe easier for me since I am also a feminist, I will concede (I.e. they know for sure I am not 'against' women as they might think if I were exclusively a female MRA and not also feminist).
/r/MensRights06/12/17 11:12 AM
12

The million dollar question, right? Several ways to go about it, but to be honest the real hard-core feminazis I think you can't change by deliberate action from our side (they can only change from within, like the stereotypical homophobe who only changes their mind after their son or daughter comes out as gay). But some feminazis who have just gone down that path from being normal feminists we might be able to reach. One thing to do is of course be honest ourselves, not abusing statistics or tu…
/r/MensRights06/12/17 11:09 AM
27

Or they become both, like me :) I was a feminist working mostly on men's rights, then I learned that the MRM exists and that they really aligned with my values, so now I am both. Some people don't like it, because they care more about the anti-feminism part of the MRM than whether someone is on their side, but I learned to not feel crushed by that. I want equality mostly for men because I find their issues most pressing at the moment, but I do find it reasonable that I may also want equality for…
/r/MensRights05/12/17 11:55 PM
1

That's a blanket statement so discriminatory. You should be happy you're not on Facebook. :)
/r/MensRights05/12/17 09:06 PM
3

As a feminist this gives me great pleasure. I don't like being made to look bad. Good for them, so they can learn that you can't just go spew hate. And good on Facebook for treating people equally.
/r/MensRights05/12/17 08:35 PM
1

Those people can come to me and explain where she's been hateful. As far as I am aware, she's just an advocate for men's rights and only in a peaceful way.
/r/MensRights04/12/17 03:18 PM
1

Christina Hoff Summers is indeed a feminist, she clearly stated that right?
/r/MensRights02/12/17 09:32 PM
2

I see I did not answer your comment yet. I my opinion I was not trivialising a role. I was just asserting that men can do that role just as well as women. If that (when there's no special consideration for a job when a woman does it) trivialises the role in some woman's eyes, something is of course wrong with her view of men and women. Then she's (or he) asking for special treatment; wanting the role of parenting to be considered more special when it's the mother doing it than when the father's …
/r/MensRights02/12/17 10:08 AM
1

It's simply a fact though, that that's a no true scotsman fallacy. I can't claim that they are not 'real' feminists, but likewise they cannot claim that I am not a 'real' feminist. We are both real feminists.
/r/MensRights02/12/17 09:31 AM
1

No true Scotsman fallacy.
/r/MensRights02/12/17 12:39 AM
1

Interesting comment as you were around at a time when I wasn't. I have no time now but I'll try to get back to this.
/r/MensRights30/11/17 11:58 PM
1

You are right, it was not made up as OP provided the source. It seems some sort of company tailored at mothers-to-be. Shocking, and horrifying that it did not receive backlash.
/r/MensRights30/11/17 11:56 PM
2

Well, I am not using insults for arguments, so there's at least that :)
/r/MensRights30/11/17 12:54 AM
2

Hmm, I indeed did not think the comment through enough. In my defense though, I do think I meant the 'should' in a slightly different way. I hope I am able to explain myself: you are of course never obligated to be with someone and we are free to have our preferences even if not politically correct, but I do think we can cultivate an atmosphere where the emphasis on men having high incomes is less stringent. I think that if everyone in a society expects men to earn a lot (or women to become moth…
/r/MensRights30/11/17 12:47 AM
2

Thanks for the source. Not unreasonable to ask, right? I found it on the page, shocking! I honestly don't get how anyone could say that, especially mothers-to-be. I also found another picture very irritating: "The greatest gift and blessing in life is being a mom" Wonderful snide remark towards women like me who do not want children. Safe to say this is not my favorite company.
/r/MensRights30/11/17 12:16 AM
1

I disagree of course, but thank you for your opinion. Rest assured that I'm very much in favor of men's rights, and that I have the highest opinion of men, even if I sometimes feel the need to give a dissenting voice when i.m.o. the sub becomes a bit too much about hating feminism and thereby limits its ability to work with/draw on people like myself who are in principle very much interested in the topic but will be disappointed when the main topic is bashing feminism. Also, don't undervalue lip…
/r/MensRights30/11/17 12:05 AM
2

thanks :)
/r/MensRights29/11/17 11:56 PM
2

Thanks. As I'm not in the States, it's difficult to influence them, but I can do my best in my country (though I feel here it's more reasonable and I hope my feeling is correct).
/r/MensRights29/11/17 11:55 PM
1

Not the exact same yet because I just read this article just now, but things along those lines (as I was a feminist with a main focus on men's rights, but now also an MRA) and they were generally well received.
/r/MensRights29/11/17 11:47 PM
3

Erm...no, as a woman I have never experienced that. The friend must be really insecure or something. And I'm a feminist (okay, and female MRA as well) so if I had any complaint I'd feel entirely free to say, haha ;-) I've always been treated excellently by men, so no reason for this nonsense. Okay, on an empty train station or dark alley maybe considering the physical difference, but I imagine everyone is (a bit) afraid in those situations.
/r/MensRights29/11/17 11:37 PM
2

Yep, this is very difficult to see for me as a feminist (and female MRA). I hate it. But ehm, there's no source? I mean we're all assuming here it was a feminist but for all I know OP could have made it him/herself to spread hate for feminists.
/r/MensRights29/11/17 11:32 PM
2

This is not the way we want to treat other people as MRAs. I am sure you know that.
/r/MensRights29/11/17 11:18 PM
4

It's called a 'Good Samaritan law'. Many countries do have something like that in place. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law
/r/MensRights29/11/17 10:52 PM
3

Of course! One of my core issues as a feminist :)
/r/MensRights29/11/17 10:29 PM
1

Why do you say no? I am interested in both :( But as a feminist and female MRA I already agree with you, and I guess it's less fun when you can't mock and demonize the other person?
/r/MensRights29/11/17 10:15 PM
7

Well, though I am a feminist (and female MRA) who doesn't believe in patriarchy, even I would agree with that statement. I believe gender roles are enforced by society as a whole, that is by both men and women. For example, the pressure for women to become mothers comes from men and also from other women. And the pressure for men not to be stay-at-home dads comes from from women who want a 'breadwinner' and from men (and women) looking down on men who do not have a job. (Nothing wrong with tradi…
/r/MensRights29/11/17 10:07 PM
22

I understand the header fits our narrative, however in the article I can find nowhere that the researchers compared before and after Weinstein. In fact, they studied 19000 cases from a database so it seems likely a significant portion occurred before #metoo. The correct conclusion seems rather to be that in fact people do not give CPR to women as often because they are worried to touch the breasts. Which we can also choose to simply take into consideration and talk about, without turning it into…
/r/MensRights29/11/17 07:01 PM
1

Normal as in anti-discriminatory. Same way as I refuse to believe that saying that women are empathy-less monsters is 'normal' men's rights activism, even though it's the top comment in the below thread. I believe those type of "MRAs" are misguided and I hope that enough normal people keep standing by MRM. https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/7fkwfw/seeing_their_man_upset_makes_women_happy_because/
/r/MensRights29/11/17 12:00 AM
3

Okay here goes: The genders should enjoy each others company regardless of how much a man earns. Which seems really obvious to me as we also advocate for more women being the breadwinners and men not being demonized for wanting to be a stay-at-home-dad.
/r/MensRights28/11/17 09:23 PM
4

I disagree. If normal people just stand by normal feminism, then feminism does not have to be anti-discriminatory. Therefore I still feel that saying that 'a man who is a feminist is like a black klansman', is insulting to those men that stand for normal feminism (which as a female MRA I feel I may want/hope to see more of) and to women like myself that stand for normal non-discriminatory men's rights activism.
/r/MensRights28/11/17 12:37 AM
3

Well then I'm also being compared to a black person being a Klansman. I'm advocating for men's rights while not a man myself.
/r/MensRights27/11/17 11:54 PM
5

I am a female MRA and now I feel insulted.
/r/MensRights27/11/17 11:27 PM
3

Pfft... 'biological role'. Everyone should do the role they wish in life. Plenty of women want to work and plenty of men want to be a stay-at-home-dad.
/r/MensRights27/11/17 11:22 PM
1

I'm happy for you. The catch is, you cannot have children if you don't want them, since you cannot be sure that somehow once it arrives you will change your mind. If that doesn't happen, the child suffers (and yourself too). You see, I think I'd hate my child for being alive, so that's not a good basis for me to have a child "just in case I'll later regret not having them". Even if other people tell me you magically start to love your child once its there...what if it doesn't happen?
/r/MensRights27/11/17 09:14 PM
2

So very true. I don't have much to add, but am glad it's being discussed at least a little bit by MPs now finally. Here's to change!
/r/MensRights26/11/17 11:53 PM
6

Totally out of line for a seller to pass judgment on a customer. On top of that 130 dollars is a big sum of money in my eyes. I don't think I've ever owned a piece of jewellery that expensive. So the jeweller can f right off.
/r/MensRights26/11/17 11:38 PM
4

Thank you from a female MRA ;)
/r/MensRights26/11/17 11:38 PM
1

Hi, I promised to get back to this one. Sorry for being late. Most vocal doesn't necessarily equate to most influence. True, but most influence does not always happen because people find you 'good', also because people find you 'bad'. The type of tumblr feminists which hate men get an unhealthy amount of interest from MRAs simply because they find them annoying and bad (which they are, and I understand people don't always ignore them), whereas as a feminist I simply ignored them and I gave them …
/r/MensRights26/11/17 10:55 PM
1

What a beautiful comment. I also welcome more of these articles. Does this mean that men generally avoid making this known even with their partners? And if so, why? My feeling is that (generalizing here of course) men want to sort out their problems in peace and not by extensively speaking about it, which they feel remembers them of the problem and rehashes it. Perhaps this is really innate, attaching more value to actually solving the problem than to decreasing its effect on one's emotions, or …
/r/MensRights26/11/17 10:19 PM
2

You and me both ;) But I do maintain that one cannot be selfish towards a person that does not exist, so we shouldn't feel too bad! And I do intend to use the extra mental energy this frees up to be other people's rock in difficult times. Not that I am so great at handling stress but knowing myself I think without children I will have more to give to the world.
/r/MensRights26/11/17 05:56 PM
14

I think economics is only one factor. Millennials also think better about whether they actually want (more) children or maybe prefer not, compared to previous generations. Helped by the fact that we have less social stigma on not having (many) children.
/r/MensRights26/11/17 05:01 PM
13

Misrepresentation of the article. That's so wrong. It's not the way we as the MRM want to go. The article states that women are happy when they can spot if their man is unhappy. That is, if their man is unhappy they want to know. Which is exactly the kind of compassion that we are calling for on this subreddit, and now you smear women for showing this compassion with a misleading title.
/r/MensRights26/11/17 02:15 PM
1

Hi, thanks for the responses. I have a very busy day ahead and think I won't not be able to respond properly, but I wanted to say that I'll try to do it later. Sorry, I took on too much work but I worry you might think I don't want to answer.
/r/MensRights22/11/17 12:59 AM
2

Hi, I have a busy day ahead but just wanted to say I'll try to answer this later. Thanks for the kindness.
/r/MensRights22/11/17 12:52 AM
-1

Thanks a lot! :) I can see why not everyone likes feminism these days and I respect that. Also I feel terrible for the bad things that many feminists do. Why I am also a feminist (apart from a female MRA) and how it helps me in life I have tried to explain before but I won't repeat it here (it was met with little efforts to understand my position that time, which is okay by me, but then it doesn't make sense for me to explain). For me men are of course not disposable at all, but I know this is t…
/r/MensRights22/11/17 12:49 AM
3

hey, thanks for this :)
/r/MensRights21/11/17 03:55 PM
0

And why does your courtesy not extend to me? It would seem I go against the grain as well. I disagree that men and boys have no institutional power as you say. With the percentage of men in government, they most certainly do (nothing wrong with that btw). But some feminazi's do as well, and that's not okay.
/r/MensRights21/11/17 03:23 PM
0

Well that's the same for feminists of course, but that has never kept MRAs from saying that feminism should be judged on the most vocal ones 'cause they have the most influence. I feel it'd only be fair if I did the same.
/r/MensRights21/11/17 03:17 PM
4

No MRA has ever argued that we should kill the majority of women and girls; and no MRA has ever argued that men are "superior". Well my first encounter with an MRA was exactly this. He was a fervent supporter of avoiceformen.com which is fine of course but he spouted the 'men are superior'. As a feminist mainly working on men's rights at the time I felt annoyed and betrayed for my work. But it still got me interested to at least look into the MRA movement, and of course as a feminist I knew from…
/r/MensRights21/11/17 02:48 PM
1

Thanks for the kind reply, I do really appreciate you said it wasn't meant dismissive. But isn't this what I just said, that we view it as a problem of society as a whole, even though the direct perpetrators are male in my example?
/r/MensRights21/11/17 02:30 PM
1

What do you mean 'they'? I am both.
/r/MensRights21/11/17 02:22 PM
2

Thanks OP for seeing us! Very kind of you, much appreciated.
/r/MensRights21/11/17 02:17 PM
0

Well I agree with Calvin of course :) Not for nothing do I do all those efforts as a feminist (yes, and female MRA but that came later) for men's rights. Thanks OP for seeing us!
/r/MensRights21/11/17 02:16 PM
3

That's not a good argument though. Much more extreme but as MRAs we also want more recognition for the suffering of men in wars and for example the killing of boys (as opposed to the kidnapping of girls), even though these crimes were commited by men. We don't say 'the demographic causing the problem is the same as the victim, therefore it doesn't count'. We see it as a problem of society as a whole.
/r/MensRights20/11/17 12:56 PM
2

As a female MRA, this one I find difficult to just believe because you say so. I don't feel I get held to lower standards than men are. It varies a bit maybe per topic according to the traditional gender roles (e.g. when I forget someone just had a baby it's worse than when my partner forgets the same thing. But when my partner forgets my birthday he is considered a worse partner than if I forget his even if I don't mind at all). So yeah, this one I cannot just go along with. I feel some indigna…
/r/MensRights20/11/17 09:03 AM
5

:D Thanks a lot!! Just to elaborate on what's awesome about men i.m.o.: gentle and kind to those less strong, often have a strong sense of justice and willingness to act on it, seeing brilliance/beauty in others, irresistible when they apologize, sexy bodies of course (hope that's not objectification, haha), and many of our brightest minds and greatest writers and most celebrated artists were male. And lots more things if I think longer about it. Though everyone is different of course, I don't m…
/r/MensRights19/11/17 10:27 PM
1

Happened to me too, at mgtow :) It's a pity, because I thought I was bringing in some much needed reasonableness and nuances.
/r/MensRights19/11/17 07:05 PM
4

Sigh, why do people like that even bother if they can't say anything nice? I always try to reverse the situation and try to imagine how it must feel if someone said this to me with the gender reversed. "Happy women's day but only to lesbian women because heterosexual women have always been bitches to me". What?! It also makes me think of when someone says that I "am not like other women". Yes I am like other women, and if you like something I do or say you don't get to ascribe it to me 'being di…
/r/MensRights19/11/17 07:04 PM
8

And that would be wrong because... ?
/r/MensRights19/11/17 06:45 PM
1

This is great advice, i.m.o. I am a female MRA and take breaks from this sub occasionally, because otherwise it tends to get to me. Obviously I receive some critique sometimes for being female and if that occurs a couple of times in a row, I start to think "well fuck you guys, you ungrateful *s, sitting here all day hating women for just being women! I was on your side the whole time, and if this is what I get for it, I'm out!" Then after a break I cool down and realize that this is a warped vie…
/r/MensRights19/11/17 05:45 PM
21

Happy international men's day. Thanks for being such awesome beings! :-) Best wishes from this feminist and female MRA
/r/MensRights19/11/17 04:44 PM
1

Hi goodbeertimes, your warm comment really means a lot to me, thank you so much! I don't know how to express that well, but really you made me feel much better, thanks. Also, I know I may not say everything right as a female MRA (because I do deliberately give a female perspective sometimes), but that is why I have talk and hear counterarguments. I don't always like that bit though :-) And I'm glad you are still here! Best wishes to you.
/r/MensRights19/11/17 01:10 AM
1

Thanks, nice to hear your perspective as a man, and as someone having both worked and stayed at home. The point about physically taxing I had not realized for example.
/r/MensRights19/11/17 12:51 AM
1

Not really happy to meet someone who is supposed to be an MRA like me, but then spews very traditional family values. Family is indeed a joint effort, and the caring can be just as well done by a man as by me. Men are not inferior carers, that's pure feminazi thinking right there on your part. Childcare is just not my thing; I was born for working. Your last words don't make sense to me. It's pure logic that if childcare is so great as you purported that no woman should complain about it, then s…
/r/MensRights19/11/17 12:16 AM
0

I thought Men's Rights wasn't like the feminazis. Guess I was wrong.
/r/MensRights18/11/17 06:36 PM
0

I disagree. Just because a job is fulfilling (spending time with your children), does not mean the job cannot be hard. I work and I love my job but still I find it hard. I also don't get why you had to mention prostitution as an alternative, and not a less controversial job like most people have, working at the city council or in a company. Otherwise, I am yet to meet a woman who is willing to trade motherhood with anything else Well now you've met one :) As to your edit, I wonder that if that w…
/r/MensRights18/11/17 06:13 PM
2

Another thought based on your comment: since you enjoyed staying at home, have you considered asking your partner (if you're together) to be the breadwinner? I personally would love to be asked that! Must be so great to have someone stay at home, and then when you get home from work the house is clean.
/r/MensRights18/11/17 05:33 PM
2

Well, then I can only take your word for it :-) I've only ever worked so I have no point of reference. Edit: But my boss and coworkers are fantastic and I can provide for the two of us so I don't need to worry financially. I just work very long hours, is all. I'm worried a lot that one day I'll give in to the social pressure and will have children, and especially that then my partner won't want to be a stay-at-home dad and I'll feel obliged to do it and I really don't want to.
/r/MensRights18/11/17 03:58 PM
2

I mean there's always a more heavy job to be found, but let's compare it to being a manager of a small team in a company (which I think is more fair; both not physical but mentally straining). I think both have their difficult bits and their advantages. Might be comparably hard, I'd think. Difficult to judge really, as I've never been a stay-at-home parent and the thought of it sure frightens me. Have you by chance been one? Does the idea not frighten you?
/r/MensRights18/11/17 03:42 PM
2

Well I imagine it's massively draining, having children around you all the time, and also there is no real end time of the workday. But there's also some positive aspects such as not having to commute and being able to take a break in your own home. Probably depends also on how much you like caring for children :-) I am a woman who loves her work and does not like childcare at all. So I think for me it be hell on earth, but if you're a man or woman who loves children then at least there is a sen…
/r/MensRights18/11/17 03:33 PM
4

I'm still not convinced. I think it's occasionally not that bad to be amongst boys only (or in this case girls only). It can I think sometimes be nice for children, maybe a bit more relaxed. But not all the time, e.g. I am opposed to boys' schools and girls' schools as it means children have never learned to just be together. There's a boys coding camp at Texas Southern University. Are opposed to that too? http://www.tsu.edu/about/administration/university-advancement/communications/news-reel/st…
/r/MensRights18/11/17 03:21 PM
4

Can you explain why? I myself do not find it wrong, as I also don't take issue with summer camps for boys.
/r/MensRights18/11/17 02:35 PM
1

Yes, this is also what I see. I'm quite optimistic :) It looks to happen in quite a healthy way, I mean centered around compassion and celebration, without going over into "men are better than women" or "all men should be [strong/breadwinner/other traditional male quality]". Nice!
/r/MensRights18/11/17 02:29 PM
2

Thanks for realizing this, that's very kind. I've indeed been hurt by the MRA community, where I've been attacked pretty bad for also being a feminist. Though I'm willing to consider that maybe it's felt extra bad there because I had different expectations from them coming in compared to the feminist community. I thought the MRA community wouldn't do that kind of thing, because they portray themselves as not like the feminazis. This is not to say that I have not also had wonderful conversations …
/r/MensRights16/11/17 03:05 PM
2

I've never had any problems working with women.
/r/MensRights15/11/17 11:54 PM
2

I'm happy you are proud to be a man. Good for you. I am not proud to be a woman. But also not ashamed to be a feminist as well as an MRA :-)
/r/MensRights15/11/17 11:54 PM
-4

Thank you. As a woman, I am annoyed by this person saying 'I hired a female manager once' and then speaking as if therefore this must be how all women are. I'm sure he wouldn't accept a similar statement about men.
/r/MensRights15/11/17 11:45 PM
0

Yet they didn't, so it's not really fair to still imply this.
/r/MensRights15/11/17 11:33 PM
1

I don't see why we can't find both are important issues? Good on your university, and on this one in the article.
/r/MensRights15/11/17 11:29 PM
1

Well, that's a problem, because I've been having a wonderful time working alongside men for a decade now. Now I'll need to somehow erase all the good memories because these people decided that it is impossible that I had such a good time. Great.
/r/MensRights15/11/17 11:24 PM
1

I'm a feminist (as well as MRA), so I should know, lol :-)
/r/MensRights15/11/17 09:03 AM
1

No, that does not make you a misogynist. I mean, depending on whether you are rude about it to them it could make you a bit mean, but I'm assuming that was not the case (and regardless you have no obligation to date anyone).
/r/MensRights14/11/17 10:15 PM
1

Thanks for the reply. Difficult for me know what would be a hostile environment for men (as I am not one myself), but I would imagine that there probably exist work environments in female-dominated fields where people make many remarks related to the gender to the few males that work there, and I imagine those men will feel equally hurt by that? I'm not talking about the odd friendly remark here and there, but for example persistent reminders that you stand out because of your gender or being ma…
/r/MensRights03/11/17 11:30 AM
1

Hey, sorry for not coming back to this, busy workweek. Just wanted to say that I agree, also the part where you say that you don't have to call yourself a feminist or an MRA to advocate for equality. I mean, for example, before I called myself MRA I did just as much for men's rights, so I could have just stuck with feminist. I just wanted to give the MRA movement due respect and show that I take the movement seriously, but in effect I still do the same as before. Maybe at some point I'll decide …
/r/MensRights03/11/17 12:00 AM
1

In my opinion you are seeing that wrong. I have been pleasantly surprised at how serious people have reacted to stories of men who had been victim of rape or groping. In my youth people simply were not even aware that men could be raped really. I know there haven't been that many stories from men raped by women (although I will welcome such stories), but I feel that at this rate and with this level of acceptance by the public, it shouldn't be far away where men will feel free to tell about such …
/r/MensRights02/11/17 11:49 PM
1

Serious question: will you stop calling yourself an MRA if at some point the movement were taken over by TRP type people? Or will you be like 'go away, you bunhc of pancakes!' and just continue working towards men's rights?
/r/MensRights30/10/17 10:35 PM
8

No, I feel attacked on behalf of men.
/r/MensRights30/10/17 10:32 PM
7

Thanks for your kindness, much appreciated of course. Regarding men's rights, the issues that make me most angry are: Rape and abuse of men by women. Speaks for itself, but especially how it is not recognized or acknowledged in the same way as abuse of women by men. Lack of shelters and other aid. Also abuse of men by other men, but my focus is more on 'by women'. MGM. This is a big injustice. How is it possible that cutting in boys' private parts is considered normal? It's the same thing as doi…
/r/MensRights30/10/17 07:19 PM
5

Of course I am willing to condemn Julie Binder. No problemo.She's an absolute piece of shit for holding that opinion. How lacking in any empathy do you have to be, to say something like that? I don't get these people. I do judge you for not being willing to believe me without some type of test, rather than being interested in what I am doing for men's rights. This is what I mean when I say I do sometimes feel a bit dehumanized here. When I've said that I am a female MRA, why is the focus now sud…
/r/MensRights30/10/17 05:40 PM
5

You ask the wrong question because you start with the wrong premise. I am a feminist and I do not want to kill all men (quite the opposite in fact) therefore I am a counterexample to your premise that 'the' feminist wants to kill all men.
/r/MensRights30/10/17 05:21 PM
9

But, if I am all for equal rights and are probably one of your strongest advocates, is it any of your business really how that goes in my head? You see, I do not have that problem. And would you say the same to Christina Hoff Summers?
/r/MensRights30/10/17 04:48 PM
6

I would say that that's true, it just does not always feel that way here. I am both a feminist and a female MRA. When I tell only the latter, I usually receive praise. When I tell only the former, you can bet I still get abrasive reactions and often indeed there's an element of dehumanization in them (because it doesn't matter anymore that as a feminist I mostly work on men's rights, and it doesn't matter anymore that I am usually reasonable and nuanced). Then again, I've also received a lot of …
/r/MensRights30/10/17 03:46 PM
1

True, but I was comparing it against drafting both, not against drafting men only.
/r/MensRights29/10/17 08:29 PM
1

Hmm, that is a bit too optimistic. Sometimes I am (and I am grateful for it), sometimes I am not.
/r/MensRights29/10/17 06:58 PM
1

True, but that way the inequality remains that more men than women will die at the front. So I don't find it a satisfactory solution.
/r/MensRights29/10/17 06:45 PM
1

Difficult one. In my country there is equality in the draft since a few months (but we only have mandatory draft if a state of war is declared, so this means in practice nobody is drafted). I am very happy with this change. But being 5ft2 I will also understand why men would not be happy to fight by my side and wouldn't want to cause more danger for them. So I haven't figured this one out yet.
/r/MensRights29/10/17 05:47 PM
1

Well, it sounds a bit harsher than meant really, but I explained myself above and don't really care whether I am a feminist in your opinion. You can find me a pure MRA or a "not-a-feminist", if you like :)
/r/MensRights28/10/17 10:47 PM
1

Thank you for your kindness. It's much appreciated! :)
/r/MensRights28/10/17 10:38 PM
1

And you still want to help us? Np, glad to help! It's only the right thing to do. You agree that society was constructed by men, with the purpose of the total subjugation of woman? Of course I do not agree on that, as you could probably have derived already. I don't really care for what theories some other feminists do or do not believe. In general I feel it's good to be the change you want to see in the world. If you're afraid that you'll be linked to what some other members in a group profess,…
/r/MensRights28/10/17 10:03 PM
2

No. I don't like the whole conspiracy theory vibe that comes off of it. Like men have some secret meeting to subdue women. I think probably from an anthropological standpoint our society would still count more as a patriarchy than a matriarchy, but that's not what those people mean when they talk about 'the patriarchy'; they attach some special meaning to it.
/r/MensRights28/10/17 09:27 PM
8

Upvote from this feminist :) I fully agree. While I focus on men's rights as a feminist, I think it's very important to have a movement which focuses just on men's rights (and which is mostly led by men). And so I am happy to be an MRA as well.
/r/MensRights27/10/17 09:05 PM
2

From my perspective, you can speak to women about fertility and age and all, but if you don't want a child at that age, you cannot "have a child anyway because fertility". That would be harmful to all involved. For example, I have the right age now, but having a child is a nightmare of mine. I would be devastated if it happened, for I have no desire whatsoever to be a mother. So I cannot choose to have a child, even if I perhaps might regret it later.
/r/MensRights26/10/17 11:29 PM
1

Your post is so compassionate and adds a bit of nuance, very beautiful.
/r/MensRights26/10/17 11:26 PM
1

There's a limit you can argue a passing connection because "well feminism hurts men, so anything that shits on feminism is men's rights because I say so". At that point it is in fact just anti-feminism, not men's rights. I say this as an anti-feminist. Thank you! I say this as a feminist and female MRA :-) I'm very much interested in and advocating for men's rights. But if the whole page is filled with posts just burning feminism down rather than building the case for men's rights up, I do get t…
/r/MensRights26/10/17 11:16 PM
1

So I am that one feminist and female MRA. We spoke earlier. I now watched The Red Pill, but I don't get why it's supposed to be so eye-opening; there wasn't anything new in there. I don't get how Cassie Jaye apparently never thought about those issues when she called herself feminist. That's weird to me. How can you advocate for gender issues but never think about how it must be for 'the other side'? For me that is always the most interesting part too, as it requires putting yourself in another …
/r/MensRights26/10/17 10:33 PM
2

Dear sexpanther, that is not okay. She needs to get treatment (anger management) and unlearn that this is 'female empowerment' or you have to leave your abuser. She is the one who is supposed to care more than anyone in this world about your wellbeing, and she is the one damaging you! That is evil! Your sight and hearing are way too important. Look, I am a feminist and a female MRA, and so you might think it is hard for me to say that the woman is the abuser here. But it's not. It's clear as day…
/r/MensRights26/10/17 10:01 PM
1

Feminists need to understand that some women love a bit of cheeky banter. Well even if I don't like a comment, I'd probably laugh it off, because I think it's good to always respond positively rather than make something relatively harmless into a negative experience. So, it would probably still be experienced as something positive for them even if I don't particularly like attention out of nowhere. What would you do, how would you react?
/r/MensRights25/10/17 08:52 AM
2

Women are conditioned to have this overly negative response to male attention because they are in a position of power and privilege when it comes to sex, romance and dating. I'm not saying you are necessarily wrong (obviously women get more attention), but when I respond that way, most likely the reason is that I feel some need to protect myself. Being kind has occasionally resulted in further negative consequences for me, namely that this person now thinks I like them in a special way. Even tho…
/r/MensRights25/10/17 08:49 AM
1

I understand and it's very reasonable, but you have to know women are really discouraged from doing this. The times when I've dared to compliment were usually met with a sort of "you are weird" feeling, or perceived as flirting. And then I feel bad.
/r/MensRights25/10/17 08:43 AM
4

I see nothing wrong with this reasoning :) If all men are responsible for the few that rape, then also all men can take pride in what good men in general have done for this world. Likewise if all women are to blame for the few that are gold-diggers, then all women share in the good that other women have done for the world. And why even limit it to men or women; we can all take pride in the good things that our species have done.
/r/MensRights23/10/17 07:10 PM
1

In my opinion the former is the more shallow of the two. But notice that I was the one specifically refraining from formulating it as 'shallow' and I therefore feel treated slightly unfairly by your question. I even refrained from believing men judge appearance more highly. I still have difficulty believing that; I think men equally value character and charisma, as this is what I've noticed so far.
/r/MensRights22/10/17 04:01 PM
1

I see that that would be an argument supporting your position. I don't really have a way of knowing whether men value appearance more than women do in men. I was actually trying to believe otherwise, as it feels a little bit insulting towards men :)
/r/MensRights21/10/17 05:19 PM
1

You really strike me as a fantastic person! Thanks for considering my comments :) Just to be clear, I do think men have it worse on this issue here because of this hostility on top of it. For the mods: there is a line now above my comments saying 'please don't comment if you come from an external subreddit'. What does it mean? I came here via front page --> search --> men's rights. Should I use a different path?
/r/MensRights21/10/17 04:53 PM
1

I'm sorry, I do not have the understanding that the degree of distraction is different. While I do think men are more often met with hostility just for finding someone attractive, I do not think men find women attractive in a different way or to a different degree than women do men. But I'm open to changing my opinion :)
/r/MensRights21/10/17 04:32 PM
2

That I do agree with, viz. "While there's some truth in what you say" edit: But still I have to say, you wrote it down well. Thanks.
/r/MensRights21/10/17 04:27 PM
2

If it were just distraction and not the hostility, I'd probably feel as you do. I can understand it must be really unpleasant to be met with hostility for no reason at all, and I am sorry for that. I just felt your statement went a bit too far in the places where it was directly transferable to women; I do feel shame when I accidentally look at a man because they are in my line of sight. So, while the first part you wrote is legitimately worse for men, the last part is the same. it must be nice …
/r/MensRights21/10/17 04:25 PM
1

Can you explain how it is different, in your opinion?
/r/MensRights21/10/17 04:12 PM
3

While there's some truth in what you say, I want to remark that this is of course also true for women. When I go to the gym I just want to exercise, and the good-looking muscled men are distracting. Yet I refuse to go to a women-only gym and when my gym introduced women-only hour I left with the men at the start of that hour. Because I believe I should be able to cope with being distracted by good-looking people.
/r/MensRights21/10/17 03:47 PM
1

Well, as a woman I wouldn't mind. I myself do not feel a need for women-only trains or gyms or such, but if (some) men would feel more safe if there's a men-only train, I don't mind. Just so long as there's also place for people who do want to mingle like myself.
/r/MensRights21/10/17 03:35 PM
2

You jest but... as a female MRA there is some truth in that no? Not to this extent, where it's preposterous and sort of insulting, but I do for example feel there's some truth in (10) and always feel a bit guilty for participating here (but I do it anyway, haha). Now to make sure you don't like me too much (point 6!), I'll add that I'm not only an MRA but also a feminist. Let the storm begin ;)
/r/MensRights18/10/17 09:57 PM
4

Thank you. This means a lot to me that you can see that. I'm a feminist and MRA, mostly focusing on men's rights on both sides, and what is really harmful to me a.t.m. is that some MRA are more interested in burning that other side of me down by all means available, than that they are actually happy for the support. And that makes it hard for me not to be bitter. So thanks, this helps.
/r/MensRights18/10/17 09:47 PM
1

I would consider myself a feminist if I didn't feel that modern feminists have tarnished the term. That's fair, I can understand that. I do call myself an MRA even though I'm sometimes hesitant (because I'm bitter about & don't want to be associated with some of the reactions I've received from MRAs upon saying that I am a feminist. I would not want people to think that I'd approach people like that just for how they call themselves). But since I am sure there are also feminists that react the s…
/r/MensRights18/10/17 09:34 PM
1

I'm already free :) I like standing up for men's rights, it's really nice to put yourself in other people's shoes.
/r/MensRights18/10/17 09:12 PM
1

They are not incompatible for me, but rather two sides of the same coin. Take responsibility yourself; be kind and open.
/r/MensRights18/10/17 08:52 PM
1

MRAs hate feminists, not women. So do you hate OP because she is feminist? I would think you'd only hate those feminists that do not practice feminism as an egalitarianist movement.
/r/MensRights18/10/17 09:31 AM
1

I was banned from mgtow for asking questions politely. I know it's not the same as this subreddit, but I do think there is some overlap.
/r/MensRights18/10/17 09:24 AM
1

Correct. Regarding your last sentence, it's more than just feminists making MRAs look bad or the reverse. What I mean is that a few negative experiences affect me, as they do most people, much more than many good experiences. If I meet 2 or 3 unkind MRAs here, it will much more impact my view of the MRA community (to which I actually do count myself as well) than all the nice people I've met such as yourself. I'm sure that works both ways, i.e. men on a feminist forum will experience the same. I…
/r/MensRights18/10/17 08:55 AM
1

I have no problem being both, so the problem lies with you. You apparently do have a problem with me being both. But it is not my obligation to satisfy your need for divided camps by picking sides. I would imagine you'd be happy with feminists advocating for men's rights and being MRAs. Seems rather counterproductive to me to be hostile to the very people showing interest in your well-being. But oh well, my support won't depend on it.
/r/MensRights17/10/17 11:53 PM
1

I don't mind that label, but it seems a bit silly to me. I guess you are probably egalitarian at the very least as well? Yet you are here, and I think you do have special affinity for the MRM, right? I feel for me most correct would be feminist&MRA or feminist&masculinist. Egalitarianism is also much broader than gender, and I cannot really claim that I am doing much for other forms of equality besides gender (perhaps sexual orientation, I occasionally speak out for LGBT people).
/r/MensRights17/10/17 09:39 PM
1

Hmm no, that is not what I think or practice as a feminist (and MRA). Maculinity is very important.
/r/MensRights17/10/17 06:59 PM
3

That would be the equivalent of someone saying that you cannot be an MRA if you don't hate women. Obviously some MRAs hate women and they shout loud, but the majority just wants to see their rights not be trampled upon.
/r/MensRights17/10/17 06:26 PM
1

Thank you for this warm and kind response. Not OP but another feminist (and MRA) and I think I agree with all of what you said. I hope you don't find it wrong, but for me your words "That is obviously not true of the majority of your people" make all the difference.
/r/MensRights17/10/17 05:27 PM
1

that women still have it worse in society, and given that, that we need to focus on women's issues and dedicate our energy to that, right? If I may answer (not OP but a feminist), I actually do not believe that. I believe men have it worse in society, and that we do not need to focus on one gender but that it all hangs together. As a feminist I do focus on men's rights myself because I find it more interesting to work on (putting myself in men's shoes). Additionally I believe we do need a men's …
/r/MensRights17/10/17 05:15 PM
2

And...you're going to help by being abrasive to someone who wants to listen? You want the MRM to grow, right, not to drive people away?
/r/MensRights17/10/17 05:02 PM
1

Hey, also wanted to offer my support. I don't know whether you will believe me, but as a feminist this is an issue I want to (/am already) take up to change.
/r/MensRights17/10/17 04:24 PM
1

We rarely get feminists visiting this sub. Maybe they do visit, but just not commenting, like myself? It's going to sound whiney I know, but I just met with too much maltreatment just for being a feminist (and an MRA also). Somehow the combination of being a feminist and MRA drives some people to especially harsh statements. I guess some men experience the same thing in the feminist subreddit (where I do not like to hang out either). I switched to another subreddit instead, where I feel more at …
/r/MensRights17/10/17 04:11 PM
1

When feminists fantasize about a world where men oppress women, they begin to see it everywhere. Maybe true, maybe not; maybe they are just sexist independent of their fantasies. And if it is true; why then would other women and feminists not be allowed to fantasize about whatever they like? Let's just confront sexist people about their faults, not other people who did nothing wrong. but if a woman was raped or 'raped' by George Clooney, they'd enjoy it anyway Maybe. Or maybe they wouldn't. Beca…
/r/MensRights09/09/17 11:08 PM
1

I ... don't get what's disturbing here. The penultimate paragraph of the study sums it up nicely. The point of some people bad-mouthing men as being 'all rapists' is an important issue but I find it unnecessary to conflate it with the topic of this study.
/r/MensRights09/09/17 10:22 PM
1

Can't believe you got in the minus for this spot-on description.
/r/MensRights19/07/17 09:57 AM
1

OP sounds like someone who understands those things already.
/r/MensRights19/07/17 09:36 AM
2

One of the greatest things I have seen in this subreddit is that there is no quick judgements. Less than within feminism, that is true. Please don't take this as nagging (because it's somewhat understandable), but you still get a fair amount of hate if you're a feminist who cares about men's rights.
/r/MensRights19/07/17 08:31 AM
1

But wait, maybe I misunderstand, but isn't it part of men's rights that they/we want women to take up part of the work load as well? So that not only men have to work hard? Like, some men want to be stay-at-home parent too.
/r/MensRights19/07/17 08:29 AM
1

So am I hostile? Yes, but not because of personal experience. Sorry if I sounded condescending or dismissive. That's not what I intended. I understand that there are feminists who use feminism for bad intentions and have a totally different version of what feminism is ('academic' feminism), and it pains me that I am so unable to change it. At the same time, ('normal', in my eyes, not in many other feminists' eyes) feminism has led me to think about men's rights, and I also cannot change that tha…
/r/MensRights18/07/17 10:14 PM
1

What a gruesome experience. I feel really bad for you. I'm also very very sorry for how your feminist friends reacted (am also a feminist, but you know, a normal one). Seeing as you've been treated so badly, completely reasonable you're now hostile towards it.
/r/MensRights18/07/17 09:09 PM
0

I am still a feminist, and just like I've always done, still working mostly on men's rights. In respect of the MRA community I also call myself an MRA now.
/r/MensRights17/07/17 07:33 PM
10

Oh no. Poor guy, this is horrific. Such a young life destroyed. Acid attacks are pure evil. Even though she got the highest prison sentence possible for this crime (I think?), it still feels too little.
/r/MensRights16/07/17 11:50 PM
0

She is! :) (Great, now I've been busted secretly hoping it was me...:-)
/r/MensRights15/07/17 12:34 PM
24

As a woman (sorry, I don't know how to start the sentence differently here), this also makes me uncomfortable when this happens. I usually try to awkwardly force things to go differently by looking intently at a male friend sitting closer to the server. If I'm not looking at the server it becomes natural that I do not order yet. It's even more awkward when the server is male, because then if I said something about it I fear he, or my dinner company, will see me as the feminist (well I am, but I …
/r/MensRights15/07/17 11:59 AM
2

gender roles does not only apply to women. it also applies to men. i've had firsthand experience. May I politely say something which possibly you disagree with? In my circle of friends, family, and acquaintances it is entirely normal for the woman to be the breadwinner. I thought that was because of feminism, since the MRM is much more recent? I understand that in your family there is still this gender role for men, but it sounds like your family may also not be very feminist? Anyway, you seem l…
/r/MensRights15/07/17 10:22 AM
2

Thank you. I'm also a feminist and an MRA, but a female one, and you writings really touched me. It is amazing to me how well you can see the other side. You describe how I also see it, including your words on men's rights. I'm actually more active on men's rights than on women's rights, but lately have been 'hurt' (for lack of a better word) a few times by MRAs, as of course was bound to happen if I post here, but I need these words to keep on believing that the MRM is not about hating either f…
/r/MensRights13/07/17 07:00 PM
2

CallOfReddit, thanks for your trust. I'm a feminist (worked mostly on men's rights, so I do call myself an MRA as well now that I know about the movement), and it's much appreciated.
/r/MensRights13/07/17 06:45 PM
1

ends up focusing solely on women I want to respectfully disagree. If you look at the Egalitarianism subreddit, it focuses almost entirely on men's rights. I know, a subreddit is not a movement, but it does mean your statement is not really correct.
/r/MensRights13/07/17 06:34 PM
0

Hmm, I've not noticed that among my female acquaintances. I mean, nothing out of the ordinary. I guess everyone likes to look good now and then (many men here go to the gym to look good, obviously not for women as they are mgtow, so for themselves).
/r/MGTOW12/07/17 11:16 PM
1

I get it, you have a particular idea of gender roles. You say your advice is for women to take up your idea of the female gender role. And then you smear women for having fulfilled that role for most of history :) Great job advertising it! :) Well, the traditional role doesn't fit me. It is not what I want for myself in life. I don't like babies/children and I have other interests than housekeeping. So yeah, that's not gonna do it for me. (It would save me a lot of trouble if I had a wish for ch…
/r/MGTOW12/07/17 11:01 PM
1

I'm thankful for feminism for freeing men from the forced burden of being their parent and caregiver. You're welcome :) No, I didn't do much for that as I'm too young, so I can't really take credit. I would not like to blame anyone for my failures (especially not a patriarchy which I don't believe in), nor for that matter thank others for the successes I made myself, so we both got what we want! I mean we're not there yet, for example I work a lot on men's rights, but you are right that some cha…
/r/MGTOW12/07/17 10:44 PM
1

Thank you once again. Your post made my day. Really I should thank you! Your posts made my day, also! Here I was bracing for impact for mentioning that I am a feminist, and instead I receive kindness and a genuine exchange of ideas/viewpoints. That's just amazing. It's also been healing for me as I'd been reading a bit too much on MGTOW. I know that is something totally different and I do respect their choice to want to live alone, but obviously it is not only about men going their own way, but …
/r/MensRights12/07/17 09:48 PM
0

I understand your position, I'm just saying that, like men can choose to mgtow, women can choose to wgtow right? There's nothing wrong with a life alone. I wouldn't have a problem with it as I'm a loner and have many hobbies and interests. I mean, I've found a wonderful man with whom life is even more enjoyable, but actually I had planned to be alone. He just messed my plan up, haha.
/r/MGTOW12/07/17 09:20 PM
-3

I'm afraid I am! :) Careful, DangZAgnut says I'm dangerous!
/r/MGTOW12/07/17 09:13 PM
0

Honestly I think this is true (am woman), and I think it counts for all people, not just men. To be attractive it helps if you've just got some hobbies and some experiences to talk about. For example when I was alone I used to travel and study languages and that helped me become somewhat at ease with myself. It adds some flavour to the person. In the process of becoming a better person for yourself, you might meet someone, or not but then you still got something out of it :-)
/r/MGTOW12/07/17 09:08 PM
-2

About the former I indeed don't really care (it's just not really important to me, can't hep it), but about the latter I most certainly do :)
/r/MGTOW12/07/17 09:02 PM
-3

That's a pity. I have lots of compassion for men (and women), it just comes very easy I guess :) Then again, I have never been wronged by any men or women, so that helps probably.
/r/MGTOW12/07/17 08:49 PM
1

Even if I know, I would probably still treat you kindly. I don't see a point in treating you bad just because you don't respect me. No one's helped with that.
/r/MGTOW12/07/17 08:40 PM
1

Thanks for the kindness! I didn't expect it, so this is really nice. Well, according to me of course they are the sexist ones (namely sexist towards men) but I cannot say they are not real feminists unfortunately (that would be a 'no true Scotsman' fallacy). But they really make my life harder and I wish they didn't exist. And there's a lot of them too, or at least more than we normal feminists can handle. It's a pain. Obviously I could choose not to call myself a feminist to distance myself fro…
/r/MensRights12/07/17 04:13 PM
2

Very understandable, I think there's many men and women who feel the same. Now I think about this, a while ago a woman mentioned this to me. She needed to sit down with the cat and a cuppa for 30 minutes, and then she was fine with talking again. I guess it's a matter of compatibility. If you clearly explained it to me how important it is for you (as you probably tried to explain already many times to your partner) I think I would do my utmost to meet that important need. On the other hand, then…
/r/MGTOW12/07/17 10:25 AM
4

I just don't get why feminists can't put a little effort into seeing things from our POV and then working with us. Hi there! I'm a feminist working mostly on men's rights (also an MRA of course). So yeah, absolutely willing to work with you. Of course in return I do ask that you're also a bit open and not hang on to hating because of the fun of hating. If you don't believe me, I'd rather not write out all the topics I find important as it's a bit much (but they include: MGM, equal paternity leav…
/r/MensRights12/07/17 12:02 AM
2

Ah, that's rough. I'm guilty of that myself I think, but the difficulty is that for me it works the other way around: if you talk to me for 30 mins about your day, I will leave you alone for the rest of the evening if you like. I'll most likely be doing my own stuff. I don't need my partner to be 'all mine' for the rest of the evening. Rather it would irritate me a bit if that is expected. However those 30 mins are to know what's bothering you, what's going on in your life, so that I know how yo…
/r/MGTOW11/07/17 11:39 PM
2

I'm a woman but that's rough! Sorry that happened to you. Wish you could have met me first, ghehe! But then you wouldn't have to pay the bills as I want to do that, so maybe that wouldn't match (it's not every man's cup of tea). Anyways, best wishes to you. Since you're here on this sub I think you're happy as is, which is great!
/r/MGTOW11/07/17 11:30 PM
2

I'm referring to something a bit bigger than personal relationshits. Ah, thanks for the clarification. Almost no man has done most of these things. We all build on other people. That's just how we grow as a society. I'm quite sure that women would be fine doing these; I certainly would be up for doing dirty inconvenient jobs if required. (But I think most people, if finding that they have the chance, will try to do something else, and so have I, although others may find mine a tough job.) it's j…
/r/MGTOW11/07/17 11:05 PM
2

Partly because I like it, partly because I see no other way to be productive enough. Edit: but the job has many good parts as well compared to other jobs, so I take the good with the bad.
/r/MensRights11/07/17 09:58 PM
2

I do. We don't get paid overtime in my profession. But badhairguy is right that that wasn't the initial statement.
/r/MensRights11/07/17 09:49 PM
1

I know I'm not allowed to speak here, but I'll do it anyway :-P I disagree, because I found it quite easy and enjoyable to be self-reliant. It was never a problem. I cohabitate because I love my partner and because we have such a good match that being together is way more fun than being alone. However should it somehow end (I cannot really see why it would) then I'm quite sure it wouldn't be hard for me to live alone. Okay, in the beginning because of grief over the break-up of course, but after…
/r/MGTOW11/07/17 08:22 PM
1

Well, to be honest I've never opposed to that. I don't see the issue with a men's night or a father-son event or something. I can imagine that might be enjoyable for men, being among other men sometimes. Though I myself would not go to a women-only event.
/r/MensRights11/07/17 07:57 PM
12

That's indeed fair to say as I always say 'boys should have the chance to decide for themselves when they are 18' and now I'm still not happy. Because 18 is still very young and if there's group pressure ('you need to do this to be a man') then of course still it is a case of abuse, taking advantage of vulnerable young people. (P.S. I'm not at all thinking you disagree with that, just adding to your comment)
/r/MensRights08/07/17 11:01 PM
1

That's called "being an adult" In that case I also don't see the need to call myself an MRA, seeing as it's of course just about being a sensible adult with decent empathy, and expecting/asking others to do the same. Strictly speaking I don't need a special name for that. Just like I can not call myself a feminist while being every inch a feminist. Yet I do call myself an MRA, to try to show to men that I take men and men's issues seriously.
/r/MensRights08/07/17 01:01 PM
1

True of course. But your premise is that they are opposites, whereas that is only the case if you are either of the tumblr feminist type (a.k.a. 'feminazi' ;) on the feminist side or of the "women are poison, it is their nature" type on the MRA side. If you are neither of those, they are basically the same thing with a slightly different emphasis. As a feminist I was mainly focused on men's rights anyway, since I find that intellectually more interesting (you have to mentally place yourself in a…
/r/MensRights08/07/17 10:07 AM
3

No.
/r/MensRights07/07/17 03:12 PM
6

As a female MRA (and feminist), it is nice that you noticed about the misogynistic comments going up with more attention. I don't know if you care for my appreciation, but it's appreciated :) OT: you are right, that is annoying. The other commenters have already given some good reasons. I think maybe it is also similar to feminism, that low-effort screaming posts with a high amount of 'look at what these wymyns/mens do!' get more attention as they more easily incite anger in people and anyone ca…
/r/MensRights06/07/17 11:49 PM
1

No, women's rights is when you think that actual legal changes are required, and I don't need more rights (that's different in some other countries). I just need changes in attitudes (on women's part by taking responsibility, not by fictitious concepts like patriarchies and rape cultures); that's why I'm a feminist but not a WRA. I do think we need legal improvements for men (eg prohibiting MGM), that's why I'm an MRA.
/r/MensRights06/07/17 10:11 PM
1

Wtf is the patriarchy?
/r/MensRights06/07/17 10:06 PM
1

Wait, how did you infer that I think all men want a bimbo whereas literally in my second sentence I explain I am of precisely the opposite conviction? Well, apparently that did not transmit well so let me reiterate: I am strongly convinced that most, if not all, men do not want a bimbo. But I am glad I asked and that you were willing to comment, because from your first post I thought you were saying exactly that. It could be understood as "have these women thought that maybe they are undesirable…
/r/MensRights06/07/17 07:44 AM
2

I don't think they are undesirable. I have a good opinion of men that they actually like women who learned a thing or two (in this case a university education, can be other educations too of course. I will use 'education level' to mean the conventional way education is labeled but am fully convinced that for example a skilled timber worker has a high education level). However, I think educated women, including myself, hold too high standards thinking that they could only be happy with a companio…
/r/MensRights05/07/17 11:17 PM
2

I am a woman who does not want children, but this made me smile :)
/r/MensRights04/07/17 10:17 PM
1

I'm so very sorry for what you went through, and really happy that the court case went more positive than thought (even though probation is still unfair since you did not wrong anyone). What she did to you was so unjust. And keeping you away from your child is doing wrong to both you and the child. P.S. If it helps, I mean in order to keep faith in half of humanity, I am also a woman...couldn't imagine doing this to someone, let alone the father of your child.
/r/MensRights03/07/17 05:52 PM
4

Agh, this makes me angry. Both for that poor husband and for the kids.
/r/MensRights03/07/17 05:24 PM
1

Well, though I strongly feel circumcision is wrong and shouldn't be done for several reasons, I am aware that a good number of men are not bothered by it at all and I am happy for you! It is not my mission to make circumcised men feel bad about their bodies or to make them feel like they should be upset about having had the procedure done. That would defeat exactly one of the reasons why I'm against circumcision (that I want people to be happy with their bodies).
/r/MensRights02/07/17 10:21 PM
3

You should definitely label (or not label) yourself as you feel most comfortable and best represented! No need to call yourself a feminist, especially if you've had bad experiences with people claiming you had to do things in solidarity with them. I guess in my case I could indeed ditch the MRA label since I was mainly working on men's rights as a feminist anyway, but I think the best way to describe it is this: I wish to signal to men that I take their plight seriously, that I take their moveme…
/r/MensRights02/07/17 05:59 PM
1

Blaming patriarchy for everything didn't get me far. That is why I stopped being feminist That is fine of course, you should definitely label yourself (or not label yourself) how you feel most comfortable/well represented. For me, having never had any resonance with or belief in patriarchy theory as a feminist anyway, it just doesn't change that much for me when other feminists see it that way. It's a bit like how some MRAs do not oppose MGM (male circumcision), while I am against it and is for …
/r/MensRights02/07/17 05:52 PM
1

Ah, did not know that :) ...maybe I should stay out of this! :)
/r/MensRights02/07/17 05:44 PM
1

As a female MRA and a feminist, this resonates with me. Thank you for this. Just like probably for men who support feminism, it can be really off-putting when you then encounter people who use MRA to fuel their personal antipathy (however sad their experiences may have been to become that way). Or MGTOWs acting like their not wanting to marry is somehow a punishment for women (I don't even have a desire to marry...). However I feel it's my responsibility to look through this, just like I hope pe…
/r/MensRights02/07/17 12:27 PM
1

I'm an MRA, and a feminist, but not a WRA. I feel like we have achieved equal rights for women (not everywhere, I know), and the issues to be changed are mostly in the level of social attitudes/common practice. For men, I am a right's activist because for them I feel there should be really some legal changes.
/r/MensRights02/07/17 12:07 PM
3

Yes, that makes sense. As a feminist (and MRA) I agree with your post. I never like the 'women have been oppressed for X centuries, so they deserve Y now', because none of the men living today have anything to do with the past, they were not even existing to do anything about it. Nor did women who live now, including myself, suffer from that oppression. I'm no saint and I do turn a bit like that if a man really wants to argue that women are less worthy 'Because look at history and how little wom…
/r/MensRights02/07/17 12:00 PM
3

We are attracted to masculinity I recently saw a documentary on this (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p052q803). The point was that in gay communities there is a bit of a problem that the more 'feminine' gay guys are being looked down upon by other gays. So I do feel you have to be a bit careful with the use of 'emasculate' and 'we are attracted to masculinity'. It can give off the idea that feminity is bad.
/r/MensRights02/07/17 11:29 AM
1

The bill is in the process of being passed. Here is the publication on the website of Defense stating that the Ministers ("kabinet") accepted the bill on 24-2-2017: https://www.defensie.nl/actueel/nieuws/2017/02/24/dienstplicht-ook-voor-vrouwen You are right in the sense that I would have a stronger argument if it'd been a complete process, but this is all quite recent. As the Ministers formally accepted, I have every confidence that it'll pass. The current situation arguably also violates our C…
/r/MensRights02/07/17 09:44 AM
1

Yes. But in their defense, if the circumcision went without complications they may feel it is not hurting them, and they may even be happy they are circumcised (and no matter my opinion I am happy they're happy), so from their point of view they aren't hurting anybody. I just don't agree.
/r/MensRights01/07/17 09:52 PM
3

I hope that's not true but if it is, I'll speak even more :) I do think the most difficult people to convince are men who have been circumcised. They are in a dilemma, because they'd basically have to say their parents made a wrong choice, which is never fun, especially if they are lucky and the circumcision is not bothering them that much.
/r/MensRights01/07/17 07:56 PM
1

Well, here in the Netherlands we now have our first ever female Minister of Defense...and BAM women are in the draft (but we only have compulsory draft when we are in a state of war).
/r/MensRights01/07/17 07:23 PM
2

You are right of course, I meant to convey that I do think some modesty on the topic on my part is fitting. Easy for me to talk about other people's bodies... For example someone who is circumcised might retort that "you're advocating against circumcision, but you don't even own a penis, while I am circumcised and am happy with it! It doesn't bother me! I just don't want to be the only one who is circumcised, like you're trying to achieve!" And indeed indirectly I would be harming them, while I …
/r/MensRights01/07/17 06:26 PM
2

Thank you, I will. I don't always know what is right and wrong (often see both sides), but this one just seems so simple: you are not allowed to cut into people's bodies without their consent if it's not a medical necessity. Especially not there.
/r/MensRights01/07/17 06:17 PM
2

Thanks for your kind words, (really) much appreciated :-) Yes maybe you are right and they can be kept in check. Feminism obviously did not succeed in doing so, but then again they did not have a historic example to look back on. The MRM with that knowledge (and to their credit) is much more aware of the potential influence of destructive elements. That should help.
/r/MensRights01/07/17 03:38 PM
5

Is effectively a lubricant, and protects the most sensitive part of the organ :)
/r/MensRights01/07/17 03:21 PM
14

Well I don't have a penis so maybe I'm not allowed to speak, but from my point of view it is wrong to alter people's bodies irreversibly without their consent if it is not medically necessary. And the more so if it's such an intimate body part. If I decided to cut off a nipple off of my child everyone would scream abuse (and rightly so!). But somehow something as intimate as a foreskin is okay... And, as a weaker argument, the nipple was at least genuinely 'purposeless' (for men) but the foreski…
/r/MensRights01/07/17 02:21 PM
5

I'm not the poster, but also a feminist (and MRA). Thank you for your kindness. I think you describe it very well. But the issue for me is, even if I stop calling myself a feminist out of fear to be associated with the academic theory, I still feel very much a feminist. For me it's super important to take responsibility for myself, to not expect things from men (eg to provide for me financially) simply because they are men, etcetera. 'Egalitarian' really does not fit that; also they hardly ever …
/r/MensRights01/07/17 10:34 AM
3

Well, I do the same to them, so there's that. I also label women-haters non-MRAs even if they label themselves MRA. As a feminist my main area of interest has always been men's rights, partly because I find it more interesting intellectually as I am not a man (so it requires the mental placing myself in another's shoes even if some things feel different for me). The first time I learned that there was also an MRA movement, it had my immediate attention, but it was from a man who was in hindsight…
/r/MensRights01/07/17 10:01 AM
2

Thank you, that is very kind and makes me feel better. And you're right of course.
/r/MensRights01/07/17 12:54 AM
4

I'm not the poster but maybe I may answer as well. I am also a feminist (and an MRA) and I do not believe in patriarchy theory. I mean, I understand it's a term in anthropology to describe societies but as a 'theory' that men are out to oppress women it's ridiculous. Anyway, keep up the good work. I think the MRA movement is very important.
/r/MensRights01/07/17 12:48 AM
6

Hear, hear! I'm a fellow female feminist who loves men (I'm also an MRA). Nice to meet you.
/r/MensRights01/07/17 12:39 AM
1

No no, I think it's great what you're doing. Keep at it. I'll support you.
/r/MensRights01/07/17 12:20 AM
1

So you want to take away women's right to vote, so that they can't vote to be drafted :) And then they have to patiently wait until the men finally decide that they can be drafted :)
/r/MensRights01/07/17 12:17 AM
2

Nope :)
/r/MensRights29/06/17 09:37 PM
5

Even if that were true, which it isn't, it's better than being an angry person who is too busy thinking of the next insult to read, think, and give opinions with reasonable arguments.
/r/MensRights29/06/17 04:36 PM
1

Yup. Can I ask a question back? I don't know whether you're American, but in the Middle East there are people who will hate people that use a US flag for what has been done to them out of the US government's name. Do you feel people in the US should not use the flag in order not to be associated with that? Personally I feel like if an American waves a flag he does not mean all of that, and I find it fair to see that.
/r/MensRights29/06/17 04:29 PM
3

That's true then, right? The rest are the Jewish minority. Christian people don't circumcise in the Netherlands. Okay, and there are the medically required ones, which I thought was clear I have no issue with. Anyway, any thoughts on the actual content of my post?
/r/MensRights29/06/17 04:25 PM
1

If I were using it as a hinduist, yes indeed. As a normal peaceful hinduist you don't have to put away swastikas because they were used as a hateful symbol over here by some other guy. I've grown up with stories from WW2 but I've never felt hurt by seeing a swastika used in a hinduist sense. Especially if this person clearly demonstrates to be a nice normal hinduist if asked about the swastika. edit: hindu --> hinduist (hindu is the language I think)
/r/MensRights29/06/17 04:11 PM
1

Careful there, feminists can bite ;)
/r/MensRights29/06/17 04:02 PM
1

:-D Thank you, this was nice.
/r/MensRights29/06/17 03:56 PM
1

Well, I (really) am glad you're not angry with me anymore, even if I don't know what made you change your mind :-) edit: Ah, I think I get it. It is not me who changed, but you were mistrusting my words on what feminism is for me in that other conversation, and basically testing what I would say if you completely denied what I said there. You have no problem with me being a feminist per se, as long as I live up to the description I gave of it. I feel smart now for figuring that out haha :)
/r/MensRights29/06/17 03:50 PM
1

Okay, thank you...I think? I don't understand why before you had a problem with me being a feminist, and now, just because of my comment "It's okay, I understand", you don't find it a problem? Especially since I already wrote something to the same effect ("I do understand well that men may be offended by the word") which you said you had read.
/r/MensRights29/06/17 03:42 PM
1

I believe that and don't blame men who chose that (only maybe if they take it as an excuse to hate women). It's understandable and human, and it's a valid choice you can make. For me, but this is very personal and I do not mean to imply that other choice are wrong, I don't want to call myself any different just because I might be associated with people who do bad stuff but adopt the same name. Then if MRA gets infested with haters I'll have to drop that name too and I keep running. I did try to …
/r/MensRights29/06/17 03:36 PM
2

I was already in the movement, so you can't welcome me really. I can welcome you to feminism though ;)
/r/MensRights29/06/17 03:19 PM
3

Read again without your rage. All the evidence and you choose to ignore it because it doesn't suit you.
/r/MensRights29/06/17 03:17 PM
3

More lies. No, that's true: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-dutch-circumcision-health-idUSTRE78M3R620110923 "The majority of male circumcisions in the Netherlands are done in special circumcision clinics by doctors using anesthetic on Muslim boys between 5 and 7 years," Compare also the US (75%) and The Netherlands (<20%): http://www.photius.com/rankings/circumcised_men_country_ranks.html Actually, now I research it, the Netherlands Federation for Medicine has as a viewpoint that circumcision …
/r/MensRights29/06/17 02:52 PM
3

I do agree that I should not ask you for when it is necessary, since you are not a doctor. However, doctors are medical experts, but not ethical experts and it is wrong that doctors in the US have this power to decide. Although I also have less faith in the US justice system than in that of my own country. In my country the difficulty is in more in getting enough people to care about MGM as it is only performed by ethnic minorities.
/r/MensRights29/06/17 02:39 PM
3

Don't worry, I represent myself, not you. You're never to blame for other people's actions. Like, when I encounter someone who is an MRA and hates women as occasionally happens, I don't feel they represent me or you, and I won't stop advocating for men's rights.
/r/MensRights29/06/17 02:15 PM
1

It's okay, I understand.
/r/MensRights29/06/17 02:11 PM
2

Well obviously that's untrue as I am both.
/r/MensRights29/06/17 02:01 PM
2

Well if you're not willing to believe me that's okay of course :) You can't convince someone who wants to mistrust you anyway, so I won't even try. If you want you can take a look at my post history.
/r/MensRights29/06/17 01:59 PM
2

If for you it does not add up, you could read the other conversation following my post. I think that should make things clear.
/r/MensRights29/06/17 01:53 PM
8

Yes. Would they say this about any other crime? "Oh, you've been mugged, well, it'll toughen you up". "Oh too bad you've been assaulted, well, it'll toughen you up" Even if that were true, it is part of their job to protect me from it! And why is it needed that people toughen up? And does FGM toughen up girls, too? (am girl, the thought of FGM alone makes me rage) Clearly there is the sexist undertone that boys need to be made tough.
/r/MensRights29/06/17 01:34 PM
5

What makes me think that, is the fundamental human right not to be physically abused, which unnecessary and irreversible medical procedures fall under. Apart from wanting to prohibit physical or mental abuse, I do not have any wish to interfere with how people treat their children. But apparently you are not able to give me an example of when it is necessary, and therefore you revert to accusations.
/r/MensRights29/06/17 01:19 PM
1

Obviously, I don't agree with all parts of the history of feminism. That's because it is a movement and a movement evolves and is often not linear. For example, for the suffragettes the bad part is that they only wanted the vote for upper class women. They also tried to shame men who did not want to conscript. However, all progress has to start somewhere and even if they didn't get it all right in one go, they had an inkling that it was not right that only men had the right to vote. Then it goes…
/r/MensRights29/06/17 12:57 PM
6

I'm not a penis owner, but what in the world could circumcisions be 'necessary' for? I know in puberty for some boys it can become a problem (too tight), but that for me does not justify cutting all children's private parts. And how about cutting a nipple off a male child (they won't need nipples anyway)? Also fine? For me those two situations are identical.
/r/MensRights29/06/17 12:38 PM
1

:-) That's another way to say it. Basically if you added "in the way it's currently being promoted most visibly" in the last sentence, I would agree.
/r/MensRights29/06/17 12:13 PM
1

Thank you. You maybe don't know how much that means to me :) Thanks for being able to see past the word. I do understand well that many men may be offended by the word, seeing how many women who are also feminists (well, they are not in my eyes of course, but I know that's a 'no true scotsman' fallacy) are actively harming men. It's just...I still feel 'feminist' in the above sense describes me well.
/r/MensRights29/06/17 11:19 AM
4

Because nobody likes being misrepresented :) I'm sure you wouldn't like it either. I call myself a feminist because that describes best how I feel. As a small example, for me it's very important to take responsibility for myself and not for example expect a man to provide for me financially. If anything I feel a personal need to provide for someone else. Same with things like carrying heavy stuff: I might accept someone's kind help but fundamentally it's my own responsibility to carry my stuff a…
/r/MensRights29/06/17 10:37 AM
10

I do feel the need to say that I am a feminist (and MRA) advocating specifically against MGM. It's a gross undecency and inequality. I agree with your words that it is nice the BBC chose to cover this topic.
/r/MensRights29/06/17 09:32 AM
7

Of course. This is not something that can just continue. Fortunately in my country MGM is rather uncommon as it is seen as a custom belonging only to certain religions, but I still want it prohibited. Nobody needs to have their body changed in such a private place without consent.
/r/MensRights29/06/17 09:28 AM
1

This is so unfair! I feel for you. I'm not experienced with this and have little in the way of advice... I'm really surprised Linkedin does not have an anti-slandering policy in place. I mean this is something completely different than 'I was unhappy with the way this contractor built my house, for such and such reason". This is harassment.
/r/MensRights28/06/17 10:31 PM
1

Threatening is a very strong word, I never threatened anyone, Well, the I'm watching you, know it. When you least expect it. is certainly meant to scare me a bit, per creare un po' di paura, sono abbastanza sicura :-) (Practising Italian!) I offered you goodwill and discussion, but I believe you use my sarcasm to dismiss the many serious points. Well, it didn't feel like goodwill to me, but I feel like we know each other a bit better now, and I may go back to it some time when I feel more like i…
/r/MensRights28/06/17 08:11 PM
1

Yeah sorry, my bad, I mixed you up with someone else there. It was indeed a misspelling for unclassy (which I'm not even sure exists because English is also not my first language :)
/r/MensRights28/06/17 07:41 PM
2

Not only would this not apply to women(it doesn't matter that math is unmasculine, because they are not men) but men judging women by gender roles would also be something that is considered very taboo True, especially this quote. I do agree with everything you say in this post, and I was not necessarily disagreeing with the previous one either. I was just feeling that particular sentence was a short on the girl's perspective (but fair enough, this is Men's Rights) and was adding in something ext…
/r/MensRights28/06/17 07:37 PM
1

Ah, sorry, you are right that your comment was not sarcastic, I mixed you guys up! Apologies. I must indeed admit my first comment is sarcastic (indicated explicitly so with /s), though I feel this is a bit more justified as I am defending men against what is essentially hatespeech against men by Clementine Ford. I am not being sarcastic personally to another redditor. What I hoped it added to the conversation, is that men hopefully feel/see that some women do support them and will not accept th…
/r/MensRights28/06/17 12:43 AM
0

True dat :) I hear you.
/r/MensRights28/06/17 12:35 AM
0

True that, buit that counts the same for men :) A smart woman will appreciate a smart man, and 'nerdy' does then not always matter. Okay, at some point, where very little social interaction is possible, that becomes a bit difficult, but I think that reversed that would also be true, no? Or am I wrong?
/r/MensRights28/06/17 12:29 AM
1

Can you show me an example? To the best of my knowledge I don't think I've done that. But so, you don't feel your sarcastic replies above are a bit... uncassy? It's okay if you don't mind that type of talk in a discussion, it's just that I will stop participating at some point if it happens. In the end reddit is for relaxation and learning :) (bedtime here, so I do need to stop talking. Cheers!)
/r/MensRights28/06/17 12:23 AM
1

That's okay, I'm not asking you to be a feminist too. Anyway, I like many of your posts, because they often align with my opinion. Sometimes you word very well what I think and I upvote a lot. Basically I don't enjoy the 'bitchy' talk you sometimes use such as in the above posts, so that is why I choose not to always answer. Catfights, sarcasm and threatening don't interest me. I am here for discussions where I feel there is some mutual goodwill coming from both sides. I am interested in hearing…
/r/MensRights28/06/17 12:09 AM
1

You can watch me, that's all right. You will probably notice we're not very different, as we hold many of the same views (which is not surprising since we are both MRAs). Just some slight differences in style, which is why I don't enjoy talking to you.
/r/MensRights27/06/17 11:48 PM
1

Hi Rabid, that is assuming your way is the right way. Obviously I disagree and think instead you don't want to learn.
/r/MensRights27/06/17 11:36 PM
2

I've yet to read of any female passengers insisting on even equally sharing them with men Well, please don't ask it while the boat is sinking (jk), but yes, I find it ridiculous if women are given preference for lifeboats. So, now you've heard one female passenger, and one feminist who does think this, so in the future I expect you to say "I've heard of at least one feminist who thinks women should not go first".
/r/MensRights27/06/17 10:31 PM
1

Guys won't look at a nerdy girl, or a woman who's really good at math, and call her boring, lame and not worth I wouldn't be so sure about this. You're not the popular girl when you're good at math.
/r/MensRights27/06/17 10:20 PM
-8

Well, 'cause when we do, you will still find a way why it doesn't count ;-) No worries, that's only human.
/r/MensRights27/06/17 10:07 PM
2

Eh...because they are (wonderful) people? Weird thought, I know. /s Greetings, a feminist.
/r/MensRights27/06/17 10:05 PM
2

That's because in latin 'man' was viewed as synonym for 'human' just like we use 'mankind' even though 'womankind' should then be just as acceptable (and should include all men).
/r/MensRights24/06/17 01:53 PM
1

Ah, the famous no true scotsman fallacy :-) But I appreciate your /s :)
/r/MensRights24/06/17 01:48 PM
-4

I already stated my case. You just still have not come back with any arguments. I am not nitpicking grammar; you were the one that said: "we are not calling it androcide". If that is really a valid argument to you, then I feel you should also be willing to admit that we are normally calling it 'homicide' ("killing a man"), just the latin prefix rather than the greek one. And so it is in principle a bit unfair that the word "femicide" ("killing a woman", latin prefix) has a weird ring to it, 'cau…
/r/MensRights24/06/17 11:34 AM
-4

I thought you were interested in an actual exchange of thoughts, but apparently not. When you have no arguments you choose to insult randomly to try to put your opponent in a bad light because you are unable to defend yourself. Classy.
/r/MensRights24/06/17 11:08 AM
-6

When a woman murders her husband we don't call it androcide We call it 'homicide', which literally means 'killing a man' (androcyde is wrong, as the opposite would be 'gynocide' not 'femicide'). I don't really see how you can oppose the word femicide but not homicide on a etymological level. Since men and women are equal, it is slightly insulting that the word homicide is a normal word but femicide is not as normally used. But I do agree that attaching a special meaning of the type "femicide is …
/r/MensRights24/06/17 10:39 AM
2

Thank you for your kindness. I've been meaning to watch it. The thing is, I'm already an MRA as well (as a feminist my mean area of interest has always been men's rights anyway). I most likely already am advocating for the issues raised in the movie. I've since long been working on points like prohibiting male circumcision, having more male teachers, support for male victims of female abusers, stopping the vilification of men, attention for the higher rate of suicide among men, recently learned …
/r/MensRights24/06/17 10:05 AM
1

Thank you, that is kind. It just feels like I really want to somehow even out what she did. To find some way to undo it and make it right again. To let men know that most women do not hate them for being white male people (as if you even have a choice in the matter...).
/r/MensRights24/06/17 09:57 AM
1

No, 'patriarchy' is not my thing. I think I just don't "get" that word. Sure, previously men used to have much more influence in the world as a result of the way that men and women were assumed to perform roles according to their gender (i.e. women were not supposed to be working, therefore had less influence in the wider society of course), and sure enough there are some things today which are a result of that (e.g. that we mostly call children's last names after the father), but the word seems…
/r/MensRights24/06/17 09:47 AM
3

Yes, it's interesting for me how an ideology that is so dear to me and helps me to be a better person (for example to work on men's rights), inspires another one to hate. Apparently you can take something and make it reflect your own personality.
/r/MensRights23/06/17 10:03 PM
3

This is what we want for women as well. I hope not. I hope we want all people to be treated in a just manner, with no excessive punishments, rather than all people being treated equally badly.
/r/MensRights23/06/17 08:57 PM
9

Oh god, as a woman I'm sorry for this (and as a feminist, too). Jeez, what is wrong with this woman. This poor man died by horrible treatment for something completely harmless, at only 22 years old.
/r/MensRights23/06/17 08:54 PM
5

Thanks. Since in my eyes (well, I guess almost everyone finds this) men and women are equal, I feel I cannot expect things from my partner simply based on his gender nor vice versa. I can no more expect him to provide financially for me than that he can expect the same from me, since we are the same. We all have this responsibility for ourselves. Now, I really like working, and so we could jointly make a deal that I work and my partner takes care of the home, but I find it important that this is…
/r/MensRights23/06/17 08:33 PM
8

I did become an MRA, but I am also a feminist. As a feminist one of my main areas of interest was men's rights anyway, I just previously wasn't aware so much of an MRA movement (for me it fell under feminism, but I respect that not everyone feels the larger feminist movement does a good enough job of actioning for it, and I can appreciate that there should be a separate movement driven by men themselves and with women supporting the movement.) It's basically the same to me. I am also a feminist …
/r/MensRights23/06/17 08:02 PM
8

And your type of views is why there is feminism :)
/r/MensRights17/06/17 03:35 PM
1

I see myself as a men's rights advocate and a women's rights advocate, but not a feminist. That's interesting. I see myself as an MRA and a feminist, but not a women's rights advocate (if we are talking about western countries, that is). Because unlike men's rights, I think we're quite well on our way to have equal rights for women. However I do think there is a bit to gain in the way we portray and view women, and also how women view themselves and how they use those equal rights. For example, …
/r/MensRights17/06/17 12:30 PM
3

Would feminism as a whole cease? Well no. I am a feminist who does not 'believe in' patriarchy theory. You don't need that to find that women should take full responsibility for themselves (which sounds a bit negative but for me is something positive). Nevertheless, if 'patriarchy' is simply worded as the fact that historically had more influence as they were regarded as more important, and that there is still some influence of it today, then yes I would not deny that. Would it splinter into sec…
/r/MensRights17/06/17 12:18 PM
3

Wouldn't it make sense to put an equal amount of energy into encouraging men to go into "female dominated" fields, so that women would have less men to compete with for the "male dominated" jobs, as a greater proportion of men would now be in "female dominated " fields. It does, I just wouldn't agree with that reason. It should be encouraged because (a) probably some men would enjoy but are now not feeling as welcome, and (b) clients/patients/pupils should be able to interact with a range of dif…
/r/MensRights17/06/17 10:04 AM
1

Thank you for your considerate response! And for helping me find a way. I would imagine most people would be more open to listening to 'one of their own'. Probably true. It is human and has happened to me as well on non-gender related topics. But since I am not only a feminist but also an MRA (and not hiding either of the two), I might still feel as an attack I think.
/r/MensRights17/06/17 08:48 AM
7

Good, that's only fair.
/r/MensRights16/06/17 06:12 PM
1

True, or all true reports.
/r/MensRights16/06/17 06:10 PM
1

Thank you for this. Yes, I do participate in discussions on Men's Rights (I am an MRA myself actually). but don't expect many MGTOW to care about what you have to say. You are right, I do understand I am an intruder here. (In fact, I see now that I am violating rule 2 on the sidebar, and must be happy I have not been blocked so far.) I'm just interested in how (some) men really feel and this is a sub where I can find out. But sometimes it's difficult to read but not to say anything.
/r/MGTOW15/06/17 10:20 PM
1

Well I'm happy you say 'almost'. Being a feminist, I would go so far as to say my main area of interest is men's rights :) Then again, I'm also an MRA.
/r/MensRights15/06/17 10:12 PM
2

As a feminist, I wholly agree...but how do I make the feminazis see?
/r/MensRights15/06/17 10:09 PM
2

Grr, you just have to destroy my petty victory huh? ;-) Jk, you are right of course. I guess for me x=MRA.
/r/MensRights15/06/17 09:53 PM
1

I'm disappointed taht you are willing to assume that my partner is a good person (which indeed he is), but not me (indeed I am as well), just based on my gender and moreover despite the fact that (a) we clearly had a few things in common, and (b) I am the one here reaching out to understand men's struggles. I will not accept your apologies as they seem insincere in light of this, but I accept your well wishes and wish you the same. So far I understood MGTOW is about being the best man you can be…
/r/MGTOW12/06/17 10:44 PM
1

If I may ask, how is he at my mercy and how do I have the backing of the legal system? For example, I would be the one having to pay spousal support if we were to marry and divorce. Thanks for the well wishes, same to you.
/r/MGTOW12/06/17 08:18 AM
1

Ow, that's scary :( But fortunately, nasalt! ;-)
/r/MensRights11/06/17 06:40 AM
1

Hmm, let's see, I don't deal in absolutes I think, so...jedi? And yourself? :)
/r/MensRights11/06/17 01:35 AM
1

Haha, I'm afraid not, sorry to disappoint! Sweet pies yes! Love your edit on the other comment :)
/r/MensRights11/06/17 01:13 AM
1

Thank you for this kind response. (I'm a woman though and basically did the WGTOW thing only until I found my partner and now I'm happy because we match well) I'm happy you're happy and content with your life!
/r/MGTOW10/06/17 11:35 PM
1

Uhm, I interpret that as maybe you want me to tell a bit more about myself. To me, feminism and MRAs have the same goal: reducing negative effects of strong gender expectations. Sometimes these go hand in hand because when men are pushed into one corner usually women are pushed into the other and vice versa (for example when we have strong expectations that women are primarily caretakers, then that creates a situation where men are often disadvantaged when it comes to custody and negative prejud…
/r/MensRights10/06/17 11:32 PM
1

You called for me? Men are fantastic! :-) Happy to be an MRA as well and think it's very important we stand up for men's rights.
/r/MensRights10/06/17 11:05 PM
1

Can I ask, how does it not bind her? If she earns more she will have to pay spousal support (unless you change this in some sort of prenup), right? At least where I live.
/r/MGTOW10/06/17 10:41 PM
1

Thank you for answering. I don't really understand, because for me money becomes less important with age as I start to earn more. Can I ask you another question? Why were the 14 years not worth it if they were great?
/r/MGTOW10/06/17 10:38 PM
1

Wait, I thought MGTOW were just men who do not want relationships because they feel it's not worth the effort (nothing wrong with that)? Not plain women-haters who want to take human rights away, no? I'm confused.
/r/MGTOW10/06/17 07:49 PM
1

She married you when you were broke and jobless. Does that not go against mgtow beliefs that women only marry rich guys?
/r/MGTOW10/06/17 06:33 PM
2

Sad that this happened to you, I feel really bad for you. I hope you are living a happy and fulfilled life now, after all that suffering. I strongly believe that one can live a happy and fulfilled life alone. I somehow feel the need to tell that for me it was the other way around. I thought I could never live with someone because I tend to need a bit of me-time and I like my own hobbies and activities. Then I found a man who doesn't mind that at all, and I did not know that men like that existed…
/r/MGTOW10/06/17 05:28 PM
1

Fair enough, I am a woman and maybe then I wouldn't mind having a child (currently I do mind). Still better not I think, because I don't think I'd enjoy being a parent and therefore wouldn't be a good parent.
/r/MensRights10/06/17 04:46 PM
3

Nice one, I would have gone if I were living somewhere near.
/r/MensRights10/06/17 12:40 PM
1

Thank you wikitextbot! I promise the upvote is not only because the definition conveniently aligns with my opinion that there's feminism and radical feminism ;-) And I just learned that radical egalitarianism exists, as well.
/r/MensRights10/06/17 12:28 PM
1

Thank you for the kind compliment :) I'm not sure it's true though! I do become sarcastic sometimes. I indeed did not realize point (2). It is quite an important point for me to know actually, because now I'll take that into account when i.m.o. someone takes the shouting too far. I would have previously thought I'll never be able to understand those people.
/r/MensRights09/06/17 06:48 PM
1

I disagree. Whether the source that prevents you is your fear of or love for the other person or people mocking you is irrelevant to me. To say that fear or caring is the victim's fault is victim blaming. If a man does not report a rape because he is scared (we just discussed prison rape where this fear is definitely reasonable), I also refuse to consider that 'weak'. Being accused of being 'weak men' for having feelings is exactly one of the things we as MRAs want to change. That happens too th…
/r/MensRights08/06/17 11:24 PM
1

The bombings and killings I don't really feel are fair. Then we should also count Marc Lepine (killed 14 women claiming to fight feminism), this MRA Peter Nolan who called on twitter for killing all women, Luby's shooting, the Collier Township shooting, and Elliot Rodger's killings. But these are the nutjobs that should not define a movement.
/r/MensRights08/06/17 11:17 PM
1

Well I do like spineless people, because they are often sweet and not of the victim blaming kind. You keep calling it stupid, but you don't get to judge. The reasons men don't report rape could also be called 'stupid' but we don't. Victim blaming is never right.
/r/MensRights08/06/17 10:55 PM
1

I don't feel you get to judge on this. Also, in my opinion it is ironic you say that when we as MRAs want women to emphasize with men.
/r/MensRights08/06/17 10:37 PM
4

True. As a woman it's better not to go there to read as it might break your confidence a bit, but fundamentally I have no issue with mtgow. Some people like to not be in a relationship as it doesn't work well for them. And they want to vent about why it doesn't. That's fine and it's only human. (There's the occasional woman-hater there too of course.)
/r/MensRights08/06/17 10:17 PM
2

We're a team: Same rights, same responsibility. Any particular "role calls" we negotiate among ourselves. This is exactly how I feel, too. You describe it so well! Great post, thank you.
/r/MensRights08/06/17 10:12 PM
2

Thank you for the thoughtful reply :) I tried to hide it for a while, but it didn't feel right, it felt like denying a part of my identity out of shame over other people's actions. And the (egalitarian) feminist outlook on life stayed anyway. Maybe if there will be a more appropriate name other than egalitarianism (which I feel is a bit too broad), I will. And I would still be an MRA as well of course.
/r/MensRights07/06/17 11:45 PM
2

[serious] Can I ask something? Suppose MRA gets infested with haters, would you be like 'go away, I stay' or chose to rename yourself and start a new movement?
/r/MensRights07/06/17 11:22 PM
1

I don't have advice, but I wanted to offer my sympathy. This is horrible and very unfair. I really hope the other people's advice is of use to you.
/r/MensRights07/06/17 11:15 PM
1

Yes, there is indeed a lot of sexism against women by women. There also exists sexism of men against men of course. For example I know a man who would not put their child on a daycare with male carers, whereas I would specifically want there to be men as well.
/r/MensRights07/06/17 10:49 PM
1

Thanks, I think I understood your points. Abortion is a bad example To suggest that the insignificant part of abortion where something physically happens is to overwhelm the important part which is a social economic relationship Yeah, abortion was a bad choice as too controversial, sorry. Let's not go there too far. But I can't refrain myself from saying that I meant it the other way around from how you read it (The significant part of abortion that if you cannot have one you have to go through …
/r/MensRights07/06/17 10:45 PM
1

Haha, nice analogy :) I indeed did not mean it as in 'presuming my experience is now the authoritative consensus of how women feel'. Just that if I think A is an action we can take to improve men's lives, then it seems fair to mention I am not a man myself. A bit like the feeling I would get if a group of men were to discuss what is the best way to deal with abortion -- men of course have a right to have an opinion on that, too, but well, it does feel fair if they at least can acknowledge that i…
/r/MensRights07/06/17 10:20 PM
1

Don't do that. Wouldn't that be perceived as disingenuous, lying? I feel like I'm misleading if I do that.
/r/MensRights07/06/17 09:33 PM
1

:) This is heartwarming. edit: Wanted to add Men are fantastic! but I chickened out 'cause it might be too much too sappy...
/r/MensRights07/06/17 09:29 PM
1

Thank you very much for reading! I agree with everything you said and do not have much to add. The points you added to my list are useful. Disposibility and misandry I had actually thought about before but invisibility not so much. You also made the glass floor more explicit for me. Previously I had only heard about it in the form of the question 'why do feminists only ever whine about too little women in infuencial positions and not about the number of garbagewomen, huh???' I always felt that w…
/r/MensRights07/06/17 09:06 PM
2

I agree. My partner wants children while I do not, so from experience (well, N=1, but still) I know that it is not true that men only have children because of social pressures or by pressure from women (it does happen regularly I know, and which is wrong, as is not telling you stopped birth control). Men indeed can want children too. Maybe if it was stated as 'men on average feel a bit less pressure to have children before a certain age' I would agree with that. That is a pressure that women hav…
/r/MensRights07/06/17 08:14 PM
2

Just to make it clear to other people, you are not quoting me here (with the quotation it may look like that). It was not meant as finger-wagging. The last insult I had not seen and is indeed a blow below the belt. The one about 'retards' is also appalling and an easy ad hominem. It's just that I felt that the first quote was a reaction to your You're what's called a concern troll. which was the first insult of the conversation, to an honest opinion, and I felt a reaction there was not really un…
/r/MensRights07/06/17 10:20 AM
1

No, I'm not protected, because I would potentially be the one having to pay spousal support. It is not a problem in the sense that you can live a happy life without having a partner. Why somehow act as if it's a loss for the other persons? It is your life and you should absolutely live it how you think it will make you happiest. Like me, I am happiest not marrying but cohabitating. And I am surprised that people who are not very fond of women somehow bring up marriage, which seems quite old-fash…
/r/MGTOW06/06/17 07:29 AM
2

You make the MRA movement look bad. MRAs like to NOT be like radical feminists and you behave like one, immediately going ballistic over the slightest idea that someone is not just an MRA. Change or follow your own advice.
/r/MensRights06/06/17 07:21 AM
1

A woman :) It's just that I was surprised it was expressed as if it's somehow a punishment for women that the commenter doesn't want to marry. If he doesn't want to marry, then don't. It is not a problem. I myself don't understand why anyone would marry and so I won't.
/r/MGTOW06/06/17 12:36 AM
0

that is the definition of feminism that is supported by feminist writing, thought, and leadership. Clearly not, cause here I am writing and thinking and leading by example :) When the MRA movement grows bigger, as it hopefully and I think certainly will, at some point it will face the same issue that the hateful ones of course always shout the hardest. Yet I and hopefully you will just continue working towards a better world for both men and women.
/r/MensRights05/06/17 11:24 PM
2

Sorry, it is Monday and I had to work today and I do have a busy day ahead tomorrow for which I need to prepare. I could find some time for a few answers but couldn't do long answers. And since you did not strike me as a very kind person (inferred from your 'I am smarter than you' remarks and again the ad hominems and assumptions here), I also did not feel too much enticed to answer yours first. In any case, thinking about it the best way I can describe it is as I have described it before. To me…
/r/MensRights05/06/17 09:40 PM
1

Okay, right, anyone can see that if this argument is valid, then it can be reversed ("men are better than women"). You don't have to be a feminist like me to see that ;-P Nice to see that the commenters on the instagram page mostly also don't agree.
/r/MensRights05/06/17 09:00 PM
1

JestyerAverageJoe, remember what you yourself said about that we don't need hate in this movement. No need to make snide remarks about someone's virginity or asking someone to commit suicide (that's not right). You're both good people and it's annoying to see you argue. CountDodo is bringing up an honest opinion and it's not fair to call it hate speech. Like we said, we have our differences, and you were right, that is a good thing. Let's just discuss them respectfully.
/r/MensRights05/06/17 08:49 PM
2

That's nice, thank you :) we probably will have our differences, but I always remember these things :) And completely agree. I'm sure the MRA movement will grow just as big as the feminist movement in the future. I'm not sure it is possible not to let the crazy people define the movement, as happened with feminism, but let us try.
/r/MensRights05/06/17 03:24 PM
1

so even moderate feminists after nothing but unpleasant interactions will just view it as a hate group Yes, this is what I struggle with sometimes as a feminist and an MRA (you see, I can't be asked to advocate for men's rights but not for women's :) Some MRAs like to sweep under the rug that hateful MRAs are quite a vocal group, just like hateful feminists. So when you express interest as a well-meaning person, you are quite likely to meet some of those. And I mean, it's not strange that a righ…
/r/MensRights05/06/17 03:08 PM
2

True, that's why I'm a feminist MRA. But tbh I was also quite shocked by the amount of actual women hatred that even as a feminist I didn't know about until I started to speak with other MRAs. It's quite disheartening. But I guess that's the same feeling for male feminists.
/r/MensRights05/06/17 02:19 PM
1

As much as they may try to malign us as women hating, male supremacist assholes True, that is why I'm here :) But it goes the other way as well. I get a lot of opposition for being a feminist MRA, but if people can't even discuss in a nice way with me, someone interested in men's rights, and instead feel the need to make snide remarks based on the fact that I am also interested in women's rights, they will have to deal with the ACTUAL men hating feminazis. edit: to say there's also a lot of enco…
/r/MensRights05/06/17 02:16 PM
-2

Well that's nice, because I'm also not interested in marrying! :) Granted, my life partner fortunately also doesn't want to marry as he also thinks it's not useful, so it's easy for me to say I guess.
/r/MGTOW05/06/17 12:58 PM
2

Thank you, much appreciated. Your last sentence describes it well for me.
/r/MensRights05/06/17 08:32 AM
1

I don't subscribe to that definition. If we use such insidious terms then I'm of course also not an MRA. That movement also hasn't been all roses and sunshine if you look at its history, and I could make a similar definition that says it's a mysogynistic movement that endorses patriarchy (because many men's rights problems stem from patriarchy if you want to use that term, see Allan Johnson's book). However, given the positive advancements both groups have made, and how those are in line with ho…
/r/MensRights05/06/17 06:46 AM
0

No, different country.
/r/MensRights05/06/17 06:30 AM
1

You non-radical feminists, the rational ones, lack it. Thanks for calling me non-radical/rational, not everyone here looks at the person once the word 'feminist' is out. I think you are right. I'd say we're growing as I see many more feminists speaking out for men's rights than before. I'm going to give it time to grow, as any change needs time always. It just doesn't make sense to me to hide that I am feminist (nor hide that I'm an MRA) because I'll still be a feminist (and an MRA).
/r/MensRights04/06/17 11:05 PM
3

I don't see why I couldn't oppose some of the laws some other feminists have supported or blocked? I agree with some (e.g. when in my country the feminists successfully campaigned to change the definition of rape in our laws such that men could also be a victim and not just women), but not others. I hope you also don't agree with everything the radical MRAs blurt out.
/r/MensRights04/06/17 10:57 PM
1

Yes, fully agree with everything you said!
/r/MensRights04/06/17 10:50 PM
7

Female MRA's are real examples of "strong independent women" Thank you, that's a really kind compliment. Mind you, some female MRAs are also feminists, for example myself. I can of course not be asked to stand up for men (which I gladly do) but not for women :)
/r/MensRights04/06/17 10:47 PM
3

Thanks for posting, I had not heard of this. That's gruesome, poor men.
/r/MensRights04/06/17 10:39 PM
2

Yeah, this is one of those people you wish you could somehow force to do volunteer work for someone else for a month, see how much they like it.
/r/MensRights04/06/17 10:23 PM
2

Exactly. I don't mind either way, as long as it is okay that I hold doors open for either gender as a sign of courtesy.
/r/MGTOW04/06/17 09:29 PM
2

You are right of course, but for the people who enjoy hating feminists, that's not convenient :)
/r/MGTOW04/06/17 09:28 PM
2

I think you got the wrong post in that thread. I never asked that question. edit: I see that you corrected it, but you still don't comment on the actual post. BTW, your support to men's rights is because it benefits you. That's purely selfish.
/r/MensRights04/06/17 09:12 PM
13

As a feminist this one makes me laugh. Especially the "not trying to put u men down" and the "it ain't about the money or anything". Sure.
/r/MensRights04/06/17 07:00 PM
3

But for me as a feminist that is not a valid argument (obviously), because it does not negate the fact that men have a right to protect their own bodies, and (of less importance) because women can take the contraceptive pill like they do now so it doesn't even take anything away from us.
/r/MensRights04/06/17 05:50 PM
7

Thanks JestyerAverageJoe :)
/r/MensRights04/06/17 05:45 PM
6

Right...you think it's wrong to find this horrible? A bit weird, but okay. edit: Ah, I see you now edited your comment to clarify what you meant. If you're interested in why I am a feminist and how it inspires me to fight for men's rights I refer you to my post in: https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/6ewqpf/feminists_at_troll_x_celebrate_getting_a_man/
/r/MensRights04/06/17 05:25 PM
1

As a fellow feminist: what this girl or guy said :) It's only right that men have control over their own bodies.
/r/MensRights04/06/17 05:18 PM
4

Well as a feminist I support of course. It will be great if men can be boss over their own bodies and whether they want children or not.
/r/MensRights04/06/17 05:13 PM
2

Valid point. As a feminist-MRA, this one I'm sometimes guilty of myself. It's just sometimes too enticing to think we're not actually weaker, because that's just not a nice thing to know about oneself. Makes me feel somehow 'of more worth' to think this. But it's not good (and not necessary of course, because there's no shame in being weaker).
/r/MensRights04/06/17 05:07 PM
1

Hmm, I've had different experiences. For example some men when they have had a bad break-up they grow fanatically anti-women and anti-feminist in their head, wanting women dead or subjugated. What they need is often not being aggressive and fighting back on their own low level. They often need a bit of understanding and normal interactions with women and (non-radical obviously) feminists that are not in their head.
/r/MensRights04/06/17 04:44 PM
3

You'd be surprised :)
/r/MensRights04/06/17 04:38 PM
2

You are very right. And I do fight, whether I'm attacked for being a feminist or for being an MRA. But I do try to place myself in their shoes and to find out why they do it.
/r/MensRights04/06/17 03:40 PM
2

As an MRA-feminist, thank you so much :-) (Though I hope you do see that women's rights are not only important in Saudi Arabia). And agree with the last line and I must remember it. Because sometimes it's easy to only see the hating MRAs, and be discouraged to fight for men's rights at all. But I need to remember I'm doing it for the other 9!
/r/MensRights04/06/17 03:36 PM
11

Exactly! (Or of course 'women are worthless', 'women are crazy', 'kill all women'.)
/r/MensRights04/06/17 03:29 PM
3

As a feminist, couldn't imagine saying something horrible like that. WTF is wrong with some people. Like, if they were all bakers, would she say 'Bakers are worthless'? Cause you know, that happens to be a common denominator and let's just generalize? And why is it okay for her to take this aspect - gender - of their personality to generalize? Would she be okay with saying "All people with brown eyes are worthless" if it is found each of them had brown eyes? I really don't get these people.
/r/MensRights04/06/17 03:28 PM
1

Sad story. I totally agree with your viewpoint there. And to me even the assertion "why should women have to constantly..." is unjust, because I have the same advice if a female worker expresses unwanted interest in a male client and he doesn't like it. The assertion furthermore assumes that only women get asked out, that only men can ask out, and that it happens all the time (which I do not believe, granted I only have my own experience for this, but I also take away from the comments that it i…
/r/MensRights04/06/17 02:56 PM
1

Well, as a person not wanting to be a mother, I would say there are still such expectations, though i'm sure it's much less than 50 years ago. However note that that was not originally the point of the sentence: it read 'if we expect ....' and indeed we have seen a huge improvement in this aspect thanks to feminism. On both sides. Because it has also become much more normal than before for men to be stay-at-home dads or to work part-time. Because as I said, these are two sides of the same coin. …
/r/MensRights03/06/17 08:51 PM
9

Thanks for your question. To me, feminism and MRAs have the same goal: reducing negative effects of strong gender expectations. And often these go hand in hand because when men are pushed into one corner usually women are pushed into the other and vice versa (for example when we have strong expectations that women become mothers and are the primary caretakers, then that creates a situation where men are often disadvantaged when it comes to custody and negative prejudice against stay-at-home dads…
/r/MensRights03/06/17 02:11 PM
3

So nice to meet you!
/r/MensRights03/06/17 01:09 PM
1

I think we'll have to agree to disagree, because in my view your analogy is not analoguous (because the father didn't just rent out his clinic to this doctor and she goes off to do circumcisions; his clinic offers circumcisions and she is his staff).
/r/MensRights02/06/17 10:16 PM
5

Well, or if he met a person who is just not so easily offended. I mean, I don't think I would have reacted that way, even though I don't find it very professional of him.
/r/MensRights02/06/17 09:42 PM
9

Completely agree! (But I am a feminist. And also an mra btw :-)
/r/MensRights02/06/17 09:31 PM
1

Except, I don't :) I love men :) Which is why I am an MRA, but of course I cannot be asked to not want to stand up for women as well.
/r/MensRights02/06/17 08:55 PM
1

I think I disagree. If the father owns the clinic, he is responsible for making the decisions what procedures happen in the clinic by profession. In this case he is also a parent, just like the mother, but on top of it (just like the female doctor who also like him faces life) he has a professional responsibility. So, the male and female medical professionals get the same sentence (life), and we simply don't know what the father would have gotten if he had no relation to the clinic and had just …
/r/MensRights02/06/17 08:45 PM
1

Then don't marry us if you find those things objectionable :) I would't mind if I were single, as I do not wish to marry (but I have a partner for life who also doesn't want to marry, so I guess this is easy for me to say :-)
/r/MensRights02/06/17 08:34 PM
16

Yeah, as a feminist I also find that glee horrendous. I mean, it's not professional to ask clients out I do agree, but a stern word would have done the job just as well. And it's just vengeful to rejoice in someone needing to relocate over something so small and very possibly even without actual bad intentions.
/r/MensRights02/06/17 08:22 PM
2

I don't see the problem with the post. It's true, right, that strict gender roles restrict men (different ways than women, but restricting all the same)? I would be interested to hear opinions on this. In my view OP's explanation is after "it's clearly based on faulty reasoning" is not logic, just a series of sarcastic sentences. Moreover, the post referred says that society plays a role in enforcing male gender roles, i.e. including women, whereas OP says that the post ignores the role women pl…
/r/MensRights02/06/17 08:11 PM
1

Wholeheartedly agree with this! (am feminist and mra).
/r/MensRights02/06/17 07:58 PM
1

Bleegh, horrendous. Not my brand of feminism (though I am a feminist and an mra).
/r/MensRights02/06/17 07:42 PM
1

Men do not have that freedom, there are very few stay-at-home dads because society expects more from men. Entirely true, and that is what I would want to change, the way in which society devalues men who wish to stay at home. Although you might not like it so much that for me feminism (which for me means that I must care about men) inspires me to want to work towards that goal. Other goals I think are very important - decrease suicide among men - prohibit male circumcision - more attention to ra…
/r/MensRights01/06/17 03:52 PM
1

Do you think women give a shit if other women abuse the system? If it helps, as a woman, I do :-) Your only concern is what a, an might do to a woman. From the_unseen_one's history, I am quite confident that is very untrue :-) He has a history of posting on men's right issues.
/r/MensRights31/05/17 11:13 PM
1

But don't you see that what you say is not true? You are saying you are objective, while you are not, because you are only seeing the man-hating femininists. That it looks to you like they are somehow less prominently present in the mra community is just because the MRA community is still smaller and less visible in the wider society than the feminist one at the moment, however they are very central to it from my experience.
/r/MensRights22/05/17 10:32 AM
1

Right, so the loons in feminism get to define it, while you just gloss over my efforts which define it just as much, but the MRA loons get a pass because that's convenient for you. Maybe you should direct some of your activism efforts in that direction? Not 'maybe', I do that where ever I can.
/r/MensRights22/05/17 07:54 AM
1

I promise you I would not speak about FGM :-) I have often initiated discussion about male circumcision without bringing that in at all. Okay, I understand you need room to breathe and am willing to leave. But it seems silly to just be here and wallow in women hatred, no? That is exactly why I don't hang out in some feminist places where that if done. It seems to me a movement like men's rights needs to talk to women and exchange viewpoints if we want to change anything in society?
/r/MensRights22/05/17 06:58 AM
1

Thanks for your extended reply and for explaining your viewpoint. I think it is difficult for you to see, but it is not true that MRAs are approaching men's issues without attacking women. I have been shocked by the amount of women hatred in subreddits related to men's rights, and how much is advocated to reduce women's rights. Then there's the people like Peter Nolan, who actively proposes to killl all women. Those are the nutjobs you say? Well yeah, but that is also the case for the women who …
/r/MensRights22/05/17 06:48 AM
1

Well, since you keep coming back to insult me but are not prepared to think about what I said, that assertion looks to me very true of you.
/r/MensRights22/05/17 12:20 AM
1

Because by imagining how I would feel if insulted in the way that the post title is insulting men, I can understand how those male feminists will feel, and I can stand up for them. In fact, it is of course something I don't really need to imagine because I experience something very similar; being ridiculed for being a female mra. I don't mean to take away from the good efforts of those male feminists. Rather because I see men and women as equal I feel that those male feminists and myself are the…
/r/MensRights22/05/17 12:10 AM
0

LOL How many times have I told you the post does have to do with me since the male feminists and female mras face the same problems, with people like you stigmatizing them, and therefore undermining the improvement of women's rights resp. men's rights? Yet you keep evading that point. Have you been diagnosed with something that could be a factor in your inability to see this?
/r/MensRights21/05/17 11:55 PM
0

Like I said, it reveals a lot about you that that is the reason you think most probable why I support men's rights. If you cannot fathom that I might simply care about men, then you should be ashamed of yourself.
/r/MensRights21/05/17 11:45 PM
0

Conflating is the wrong word here, because they are the same thing with genders reversed so they have everything to do with each other. A male feminist with face the same issues with radical feminists as I am experiencing with you. But I explained this already several times and yet you accuse me of being a slow learner?
/r/MensRights21/05/17 11:34 PM
1

The nice thing is, you reveal quite a bit about yourself in the process. I mean, you apparently don't want to say anything about the contents of my comment (because you realize that what I say is true, I think). Also, if 'wanting sex' is really the reason that seems most likely to you and you cannot even fathom that someone cares about the well-being of men if they are not themselves men... then I understand why you cannot reach over the boundary and see my point. Have a nice day :-)
/r/MensRights21/05/17 10:58 PM
1

facepalm When you don't have arguments you resort to insults. You're so similar to radical feminists in this respect. I trust you do see that all your previous statements work the same way for women supporting men's rights, no? Unless you think radical mra's don't wage war on women, which is simply untrue.
/r/MensRights21/05/17 10:22 PM
0

Well, you should ask Tibor, it's his/hers.
/r/MensRights21/05/17 08:46 PM
2

Yeah, as a woman this (I mean that hashtag) gets me real mad. But there's little I can do. I'm already advocating for men's rights but because I am, of course, also an advocate for women's rights since I am a woman, I get all the hatred and malice from men's rights groups that a person can get. Very difficult to keep supporting men's rights, but I'll do my best.
/r/MensRights21/05/17 08:21 PM
0

So I am like a Jew for Hitler because I am advocating for men's rights?
/r/MensRights21/05/17 07:10 PM
2

That...clears a lot up for me, thank you! Though, I have found one subreddit (Men's Lib) where it isn't like this thanks to good moderation and rules. It's just that it would be nice if "Men's rights" were that kind of place as it's the first a person interested in men's rights is likely to encounter, but to be fair the same applies to several feminist subreddits imho.
/r/MensRights21/05/17 05:33 PM
-1

Well, apparently then I am a suddenly a 'beta woman' or something who adopts an alternative strategy to mate because she is inadequate... rather than simply a woman interested in the well-being of men. Nobody wants to be seen as inadequate, so I better not advocate men's rights.
/r/MensRights21/05/17 05:09 PM
1

I agree. I am a feminist interested in advocating men's rights, and so I thought I should come here and read & learn. However, immediately when I tried to contribute to the discussion, I was met with hatred, and lack of respect/empathy. But this is of course not conducive for changing society, and very contradictive to the men's rights movement's request to have more empathy for men. My best guess is that some men maybe feel belittled if a woman is interested in men's rights? It's sad, because i…
/r/MensRights21/05/17 04:59 PM
1

Well I guess then as a woman I shouldn't advocate for men's rights either because that apparently makes me a sad creature?
/r/MensRights21/05/17 04:07 PM
2

I was just wondering, do you need any help? You sound not okay, like you have anger issues or something. I mean, that's nothing to be ashamed of, we all have our problems. The way you react to people looks very off. I know no one who reacts with such hatred simply to a comment they disagree with.
/r/MensRights21/05/17 10:23 AM
2

As you wish :-)
/r/MensRights21/05/17 10:02 AM
2

You're not interested in a respectful discussion I see. That's okay, but of course I will then not try to see your point of view. My advice to you is try to empathize with people a bit more if you wish to be heard.
/r/MensRights21/05/17 09:52 AM
-3

I don't know what you're fucking game I don't have a "fucking game"; I am just giving my point of view on your comment. Please be more respectful. completely changed the meaning of my comment - why? I do not agree that I changed the meaning of your comment. With your explanation I understand now that you focused your attention more on the pictures rather than the way the public image of a person affected their sentence. In my eyes they are the same thing: that strong/manly/influential men are le…
/r/MensRights20/05/17 10:06 PM
-4

I would be surprised if male abusers got the same treatment ... you know "Evil John Doe, 28, too brainy to be jailed Well it happens (the famous Brock Turner rape case, too sporty to be jailed), but that is beside the point. It is a gross injustice, because a sentence is a reflection on what is done in the past to a victim, not a reflection of what someone might possibly do good in the future (except maybe in juvenile court, but that also takes brain development into account).
/r/MensRights20/05/17 09:32 PM
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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