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Weinstein Effect Backlash: Men Now Too Scared To Perform CPR On Women

TheAndredal

January 3, 2018
167 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://squawker.org/analysis/cpr/
Archived from /r/MensRights

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Post Information
Title Weinstein Effect Backlash: Men Now Too Scared To Perform CPR On Women
Author

TheAndredal

Upvotes 167
Comments 54
Date January 3, 2018 5:31 PM UTC
(8 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/7nw5ml/weinstein_effect_backlash_men_now_too_scared_to/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/weinstein-effect-backlash-men-now-too-scared-to.908395
https://theredarchive.com/post/908395
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Comments

[+]reformedorbiter1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

Where I live you are legally obligated to help people if you have CPR training and if you don't could be in trouble.

Planning on letting all of my first aid tickets expire and not renew them.

[–]SunosUnix 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Where is that so i can avoid the area entirely? UK i assume?

[–]JoeBender1 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Europe ... probably

[–]JebberJabber 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Safest to avoid the whole northern hemisphere.

[–]JoeBender1 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Could go to the extreme ... I’ll find an uninhabited island somewhere and inhabit it ... only me. Nobody else. The islands population is exactly one. Fuck humanity. Those bald semi aquatic apes deserve to drown in their own filth.

[–]WillMeatLover 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Seconded. Please answer OP.

[–]WillMeatLover -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's idiotic.

[–]BaileysBaileys 18 points19 points20 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

No, this study was based on data from before Weinstein.

[–]mwobuddy 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Right and it'll only get worse.

[–]njullpointer 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I was going to say -- this is already a problem, has been for a while. There have been, I seem to recall (though I might be talking out my arse), some cases where a savior has been sued for it.

[–]BaileysBaileys 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There should be good samaritan laws against the latter of course, but not every country has those.

[–]HerbyDrinks 11 points12 points13 points 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

As a health care provider who has had to do CPR on women I never even considered this. It's life or death and the thought that someone would use a instant like that to fondle anyone is hard for me to wrap my mind around.

I find it even more troubling that I could be considered a sexual predator for doing what I was trained to do without thinking.

[–]TheAndredal[S] 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

the most famous case happened in Japan, where a man saved a woman's life and got accused of being a pervert

[–]JebberJabber 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

How many cases have there been, in the entire world, ever?
Has there ever been a single case, even one, which resulted in the rescuer receiving any kind of punishment?

Was there even one where the rescuer received, on balance, more of a social penalty than a social reward?

Squawker is a fake news site BTW. Did you really think CPR requires removing clothing and touching breasts? It is sternum compressions.

strangers now likely find themselves increasingly reluctant to remove a woman’s clothes let alone touch her breasts. Both of which are required in successful female CPR in most cases.

Here is another one of their headlines:
Is Obama Plotting A Second Civil War? EX-Aide Says Yes, Obama Still Thinks He’s The President.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/squawker/

[–]TheAndredal[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

the guy in Japan almost had a trial regarding this

[–]JebberJabber 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

A perfect case of fake news. We are all supposed to be getting worried over something that has not even led to a single court case anywhere in the world.

[–]TheAndredal[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

so the guy that was shamed in Japan and all the MeToo crap is just ok?

[–]JebberJabber 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

Who said it was OK? Bad things happen in the world, so what?

What would you suggest? To save that one guy in Japan his embarrassment should everybody stop talking about sexual abuse? Should Weinstein be given his job back? What should we do about the hundreds of other mini-Weinsteins all over the place?

I'm sure a hell of a lot worse things are going to happen to men as a result of MeToo than for a CPR giver to have a crazy accusation which does not result in charges. I don't see a problem with that.

There is a balance to be made. There is a huge amount of damage being done already and women bear the great majority of it. I get to see a lot more of it than most men and it just gives me the shits that a lot of guys are so self centred they think any unjustified or inadequately justified bad thing happening to a man is the end of the world. It isn't. I see worse things.

[–]TheAndredal[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

no, stop this mentality in general, there's gonna be consequences if this shit continues

[–]JebberJabber 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

This shit has continued for tens of thousands of years. There have always been consequences. Huge, tragic, terrifying, life changing consequences in many cases.

MeToo is just a very small rearrangement in the distribution of consequences. It is a storm in the media purely because it involves celebrities. Hardly any men are affected - less than a hundred on the website that records all the men accused in the media. If you think a hundred men is a significant number then you have no idea about the scale of rape.

I was talking to a couple of rape victims just earlier tonight. One popped up on our suicide support sub, too terrified to report to police or even phone a support line because her parents almost threw her out of the family last time she got raped. She's in high school, has no money, wants an education. It is her former best friend, now he says he owns her and rapes her repeatedly. She's pregnant and too terrified to interact with any professional because she believes, rightly or wrongly, that they would be required to report her rape to her parents.

Another one will be OK, she's recovered before. She won't recover from her parents' reaction. Now she's been raped on two continents. This one was a MRA-approved "real" rape - stranger, violence, outdoors.

There are dozens more out there tonight I guess, and there will be more tomorrow night.
We have subs for rape support, it isn't my thing. But it is so common it turns up all over the place.
.
So, what "consequences" do you forsee? Apparently three YouTube RedPill ranters have suggested chaperones for Redpillers and MGTOW. Sounds like a grand idea to me.

[–]JebberJabber 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Below is an explanation of why this shit is going to continue. A lot of women have said similar things, basically "welcome to my life".

I’m very sorry that men feel fearful of sex right now but, as a woman, I have always been frightened of it.
I have always been fearful of being sexually assaulted.
I have always been fearful of casual hookups.
I have always been fearful of what could happen and, for good reason, because I was eventually sexually assaulted.

If men are just now feeling a bit scared about what could be, perhaps they should try to explore the subject from women’s perspectives more. We’ve found ways to deal with our fear. Perhaps you all should too.

If that feels callous, that’s because it is. Many people didn’t care about our fears until this movement began so you’ll excuse me if some of us who actually do want to find a balance between the Salem witch trials and no one caring about what happens to women aren’t jumping to put women’s concerns back into the closet.

[–]JebberJabber 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Relax, it is a fake news site.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/squawker/

[–]Adanu0 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It happens. The sooner you wrap your head around it, the sooner you can protect yourself from the moral panic stupidity.

[–]herefortheparty01 23 points24 points25 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

It’s true. I had to get permission to perform cpr on a woman. Ironically it was granted from her husband.

[–]yvaN_ehT_nioJ 16 points17 points18 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

When I did my first aid training with the American Red Cross they really hammered down the importance of getting consent from a person who appeared to be in need of aid before we do anything. That could be through gestures (e.g., nodding of head), actually saying it was ok to aid them.

If memory serves, we could provide aid to someone who was unconscious as they would be implicitly consenting (or something of that nature).

Of course, that wouldn't preclude the person you helped from suing or conducting legal action against you (barring Good Samaritan laws, which vary from place to place) after such aid was rendered.

[–]mwobuddy 35 points36 points37 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If memory serves, we could provide aid to someone who was unconscious as they would be implicitly consenting (or something of that nature).

Unconscious = consent... nice...

[–]McFeely_Smackup 11 points12 points13 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Hah, ok that is pretty funny.

[–]Egalai 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Training course I went though was for trauma and they said if the injured doesn’t consent to help to wait until the bleeding knocks em out and then administer care

[–]yvaN_ehT_nioJ 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ah, forgot about that bit! Don't forget it applies in cases of esophageal blockages too.

[–]JebberJabber 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Permission is about non gendered liability if something goes wrong, they get injured say.

[+]mwobuddy -13 points-12 points-11 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

How is cupping breasts and rubbing the nipple with your thumb effective CPR?!?!

[–]Aeponix 19 points20 points21 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I'm trained in CPR. I will not perform it on a woman, period.

I'm hesitant to even shake a woman's hand. Unless we are dating, or are close friends, I'm just not initiating physical contact with any woman for the foreseeable future.

I'm not losing my job over a hug like some of these people, fuck that.

[–]Tex623 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I only shake a woman’s hand if it is in a group setting and everyone is shaking hands. Otherwise, I give a nod and say “nice to meet you.”

[–]ToplessNedFlanders 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

ITT people who are medical providers admitting to bias based on sex in a sub where the idea is to discuss how terrible bias based on sex is.

Perform the CPR like a professional and not a creep and move on. If you get sued let a judge or jury convict. It’ll never happen.

Source: CPR trained professional.

[–]JebberJabber 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You don't think you would lose your job from walking away? Even if the woman was unrescuable you would be the main story if it got out.

It is a fake news site BTW.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/squawker/

[–]crash_over-ride 13 points14 points15 points 8 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link

Paramedic here, both the article and the "sources" are garbage

Limiting unnecessary physical contact to keep yourself out of potentially compromising situations? A fantastic idea. I hate (and it isn't just me) being in the back of an ambulance with individuals of a certain age/gender because of the "my word versus theirs" and my livelihood (possibly freedom?) is on the line. The fact that some patients have underlying mental or substance abuse illnesses only makes the risk of being falsely accused worse.

Refusing to perform CPR because you're afraid of getting jammed up? That's a different matter. The American Heart Association and American Red Cross are constantly researching cardiac arrest outcomes, and have identified prompt and effectively performed CPR, and cardiac defibrillation, as being key to survival. Both of these can be done by the layperson.

The nonsense article, which pulls a statistic stating fewer female arrest survivals, posits a reason and then runs with it, and cites nothing, actually contributes to the problem in-and-of itself. It stirs up fear and uncertainty using non-sourced and likely made up material (Fake News?) that ends up negatively impacting our world. It reduces the chance a bystander will perform CPR by literally making shit up. Put your hands on the sternum, between the breasts, and push. There's no need to remove clothing, or touch anything but a person's sternum. In a case like this, consent is implied (legally, an unconscious person is assumed to consent to life saving care unless a Do Not Resuscitate order is in place).

If you get jammed up over your actions during a cardiac arrest situation, then you probably weren't doing actual CPR. "Mouth to mouth" has gone by the wayside, continuous high quality (compress the chest at least 2 inches at a rate of 100-120 times/minute) is what is now being taught.

A circlejerk over an article like this isn't exactly doing this sub any favors. 15 years in emergency services and I have never seen, nor heard, a peep of this so-called "phenomena".

[–]Birdofhermes69 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The citation is there man. The article Hasan empirical basis, but with data far older than has little to do with #metoo

[–]JebberJabber 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

This is a fake news site. What part of this did you not understand?
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/squawker/

Here is another headline of theirs:

Is Obama Plotting A Second Civil War? Ex-Aide Says Yes, Obama Still Thinks He’s The President

General principle: If presented with "news" on a site as obviously dodgy as this one, or just one you don't recognise, Google search for the alleged news / research. If it is genuine there will be articles about it by well established, respected news sites. If they won't touch it, why would you even read it?

The link is to respectable research in this case, but their alleged quote is not in the linked document and is implausible. CPR does NOT require removal of clothes or touching of breasts. If it did then you would be covered by consent to resuscitation implied by unconsciousness. If they had a DNR notice then I guess a hospital could have liability if circumstances were such that they had time and info needed to check for it.

That does not apply to a bystander though. You would not normally have a name let alone a reliable ID, or time to check even if you knew how and had access to the info. So a DNR notice is not a factor.

[–]yvaN_ehT_nioJ 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You didn't post about it being a fake news site until ~five hours ago (at the time of this post, 8:57 AM CST), Birdofhermes posted the comment you're replying to ~ten hours ago and has not made any comments on the site since then so I highly doubt he saw your comment.

[–]JebberJabber 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Damn, I fell asleep before reporting this to the mods. I'll do it now.

Fake news is all about rapid response, or lack thereof. We should have a bot to filter out links to fake news sites.
Then we can have big wars over "But Infowars published an accurate recipe for cheese muffins five years ago" and "Snopes.com was started by Karl Marx".

[–]WillMeatLover 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

"Mouth to mouth" has gone by the wayside

Any links on that?

[–]crash_over-ride 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If you've taken a CPR course they should have emphasized it for single-rescuer CPR. If it's two person then it's a 30:2 compression/breath ratio. The pressure differential in the chest created by CPR will draw air into the airway, and lead to gas exchange in the lung's capillary beds. Think of CPR as a pump, when you first start a pump it typically needs to prime. CPR is no different, it takes several compressions to "prime" the pump, and it can take 5-10 compressions before full circulation/gas exchange from CPR occurs.

This is why current standards emphasized uninterrupted CPR for maximum benefit.

Poke around AHA/ARC CPR standards. I'm gonna guess it'll be on their website.

link

[–]PM_ME_MORE_PICS 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"Mouth to mouth" has gone by the wayside, continuous high quality (compress the chest at least 2 inches at a rate of 100-120 times/minute) is what is now being taught.

Not everybody knows that. I heard it for the first time for example.

[–]theothermod 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not a paramedic, but I did receive CPR training from a government emergency organisation. We were explicitly told to remove metal bras because they would cause excessive bruising when CPR was applied.

We were also explicitly told to remove the bra without touching the woman's breasts or exposing them to sight. This was because a woman had, in fact, sued her rescuer for touching her breasts - and won.

There was supposed to be a safe and legal method for bra removal, but who's going to remember it in an emergency?

As for ambulances - why aren't they already equipped with video cameras recording events inside? Seems they should be.

[–]Adanu0 -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Point, missing it.

[–]Blutarg -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There's no need to remove clothing, or touch anything but a person's sternum

You're crediting certain people with far too much rationality.

[+]Juicyjackson -7 points-6 points-5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If women can have fake articles about a disproved wage gap. Men can have some fake articles to circle jerk over

[–]boringcarpets 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh, this isn't Weinsteins doing, it's years of false accusations and demonising all men all the time, the media should look closer at themselves

[–]Mythandros 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I wouldn't do CPR on a woman either. I am not risking my livelihood on the risk of a false accusation.

Feminism, you reap what you sow.

[–]TheOnyxBlade 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What about the good sumaritain act??

[–]chambertlo -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I would never perform CPR on a woman in this climate. Fuck that. I have been trained in CPR for years, but I would rather walk away than worry about being accused of some shit by some dizzy broad.

[–]PM_ME_MORE_PICS 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Most women aren't feminists. I don't think they should suffer because of the crazies. That will just broaden the divide.

[–]JebberJabber 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What has this got to do with feminists? Do you think feminists are more likely to make false accusations and tell the police they remember stuff from when they were unconscious?

Squawker is a fake news site BTW, their credibility is zero.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/squawker/

[–]PM_ME_MORE_PICS 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Do you think feminists are more likely to make false accusations and tell the police they remember stuff from when they were unconscious?

yes

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