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BluesForBoltzmann Archive

View 8 posts and 87 comments by BluesForBoltzmann on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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1

Thank you for the alternative perspective. Honestly, I have met women who are as you describe yourself, i.e., not at all desirous of the archetypal masculine man. They aren't in the majority and they often have something discernible about them which makes them stand quite apart from traditional femininity, so it's perhaps not a surprise that they are not as attracted to traditional masculinity as are their own traditional counterparts. The comment about an egalitarian marriage is interesting in …
/r/PurplePillDebate30/08/22 03:58 AM
19

Oh yes. Women have different conceptions of masculinity and of what is attractive in men. Men also have different conceptions of what is attractive in women. Surely, you can be yourself and find someone who is attracted to you, and such a possibility is largely the basis for much well-meaning dating advice on being authentic to who you are. But I am primarily concerned with probabilities and aggregates. You have a number of chances "at bat" with a community of people (say women). What traits sho…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/08/22 06:35 PM
3

I would say that women are generally romantically attracted to a kind of authenticity that conforms to their expectations of safe masculine behavior. Imagine two different incredibly authentic people who differ only along the "financial provider" axis. Take one to be authentic by building model trains in his parent’s basement. Take the other to be authentic by becoming an investment banker on Manhattan. Assume each have relatively stable personalities. Which profile would women (again, in genera…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/08/22 06:27 PM
5

Oh sure. People can certainly “be themselves” and meet these requirements. My argument is that there is some acculturation which makes men become this way, and that some men are conscious of this shaping and others are not, and that those who are conscious of it (and oppose it) are generally derided as failing in some way. It is kind of like if you have been trained from birth to be a certain way, and then over time that certain way suddenly becomes “yourself,” would recognize that you have been…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/08/22 06:23 PM
3

Well don't make the stakes so high in your mind that you don't write it. I think such a discussion will always be relevant even if the existing problems get worse. I think there is something deeply ingrained in our cultural upbringing which makes everyone-men, women, and people of all other gender expressions-view men as intrinsically less deserving of empathy. It is incredibly visceral and you can see it in how many other subreddits discuss conflicts between two genders. The general view is tha…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/11/21 05:18 PM
2

Thanks for the reference. I read the article in the second link and I agree that the advice is blind. Much of it is a veiled blaming of men for objectifying women ("We glorify shitty treatment of women"), for not being sufficiently open ("You’re also not “supposed” to say you’re hurting for a relationship, even if you are") or for internalizing the bad advice of some general "other" ("You often got told there would be a gorgeous woman who’s perfect for you, but she ain’t there", "You’re being ma…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/11/21 05:08 PM
6

I'd be interested in reading a more fleshed out OP about this. Something like "Society's entitlement to male sacrifice" with a discussion of how this entitlement refracts differently for men and women, especially leading the latter to view the former largely as tools to achieve their own social and economic goals, and leading the former to believe they don't have worth unless they are sacrificing themselves for something.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/11/21 03:35 PM
14

Whenever I hear women talk about being compensated for their emotional labor I wonder who is going to compensate men for the emotional labor of constantly having to listen to women complain about all the emotional labor they do
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/11/21 03:23 PM
8

If a guy thinks that he's going to be accused of sexual harassment when interacting with a woman, then he probably should leave women alone in general. This quote reveals an incredible lack of empathy. It sounds like If a woman thinks that she's going to be sexually harassed when interacting with a man, then she probably should leave men alone in general. You have no idea what goes through the mind of a stranger that you first meet, and many women are quite different with regard to personal boun…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/10/21 01:13 AM
1

Thanks. Yep
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/10/21 02:46 AM
1

It is inaccurate to say they properly scope their claims when they put in the NYT an opinion piece based on this research that categorically states as its title "Academic Science Isn't Sexist." One could argue it's a click-bait choice, but more accurately seems like a motte-and-bailey fallacy. In any case thanks for your breakdown. It is very detailed and shows a clear desire to support the essence of the Williams and Ceci study. Much like my post and the Chronicle posts reflect a clear desire i…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/10/21 09:06 PM
1

Thanks for your perspective. I think this was a good discussion.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/10/21 08:56 PM
1

Yes, and that is why ultimately I don't think we're going to see eye-to-eye on this. I've actually seen belief in female superiority expressed pretty often in my life compared to any disparaging comments about their competence. That being said, I'm not in STEM. Thank you for your comments. I think this quote is a good summary of our positions. We likely won't see eye to eye on this. I think that's fine. The extrapolations to society at large might be concerning, but within the context of this fo…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/10/21 06:12 PM
1

Having been part of such hiring groups I can tell you that applicants indeed often come one-by-one and that the sense that you have a rare qualified candidate from an underrepresented group is clear even if you have no immediate comparisons to candidates from non-represented groups. You recognize that you need to consider this candidate seriously (if not hire them more quickly) since such a candidate doesn't come as often as candidates from the more represented group. It is a superficial demogra…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/10/21 03:01 PM
1

It doesn't exactly assess competence, but it appears to be clearly incompatible with the idea advanced by the study you linked (Moss-Racusin et al, 2012) that women in science are evaluated as less competent in their field than their male counterparts because of stereotypes and are correspondingly seen as less hireable. Yep I have seen and read this study. I can believe the conclusions even if they conflict with the ones from the explicit-competence studies linked above. I can believe them both …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/10/21 05:34 AM
3

Thanks for your comment. To be clear, all of the studies I referenced (the lab technician study and the vocal inflection ones) used the term "competence" explicitly in their surveys/interviews whereas the meta-analyses had to use proxies for the word competence in order to combine results across studies. Thus the results of my referenced studies do point more directly to the sense that the study participants perceived men in those contexts as more competent than women. The words used to get at t…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/10/21 05:00 AM
3

I took the study to be a specific example of a more general phenomenon. But I concede that the generality is in question. I did some searching to see if is generally true that the gendered perception competence indeed leans in favor of men, and the results seem to be mixed. The study that u/problem_redditor linked points in the opposite direction, but it doesn't (one might say conveniently for me) use definitions of competence that seem right to me. Some other studies (vocal inflection ones, aga…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/10/21 01:41 AM
6

Thank you for the data link. It is significant and interesting that the authors separate "agency" and "competence". I would have taken the two terms to be largely overlapping, but the authors are also fortunately explicit about their sub-definitions. From Table 1 it shows that they generally define competence as some combination of "creativity" and "intelligence", which is not exactly the definition I would associate with competence. Speaking, purely anecdotally, there are many intelligent and c…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/10/21 01:13 AM
37

u/throwra_coolname209 made a good point about the trickiness of this "women are wonderful" idea and refutation. My sense of it is that society has a latent view of women as more "child-like" than men and that this view comes with a number of positive and negative connotations. The positive side leads people to being more sympathetic towards women than towards men in situations where the two genders confront one another, but the negative side leads people to viewing women as generally less compet…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/10/21 04:58 PM
4

This seems hyperbolic but is in fact the case. In the book The Dating Divide, the authors show based on data from OKCupid that women of all ethnicities had a preference for white men over men of their own ethnicity (black women had a slight and perhaps not statistically significant preference for white men), whereas men of all ethnicities had a preference for women of their own ethnicity. All women except black women had antipathy towards black men. The authors connected these trends to women's …
/r/PurplePillDebate03/10/21 05:37 PM
1

Your assumption is wrong. Super fem guys are often pure tops, and the bottom in my experience is often a bit more "assertive" and less romantic in the relationship. Bottoms know what they want. I don't know why you say his assumption is wrong so categorically given the reality of such relationships is often a complex mix between what the OP asserts and what you assert. Relevant quotes from Butch Tops and Femme Bottoms? Sexual Positioning, Sexual Decision Making, and Gender Roles Among Young Gay …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/09/21 05:53 AM
10

I think you're right. And I've heard this idea before. Essentially: whenever women complain about men across various dimensions of complaints, it seems like they're only focusing on the men they're attracted to because those are the only men they really see. This video summarizes the idea and its consequences: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u13\_Bdw5eY I don't subscribe to all of Grace's views, but I think he was spot on in this deconstruction.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/09/21 03:11 PM
3

Bacon's rebellion was an armed uprising of settlers against landed gentry in 17th century America. The uprising joined forces between white indentured servants and black slaves against the gentry. After the rebellion was quashed, the landed gentry instituted laws to give the white indentured servants more status which led to these white servants eventually learning to direct their animosity towards enslaved blacks (rather than towards the upper classes) as a bid to solidify their status. It was …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/09/21 04:04 AM
9

You should check out Ellen Lamont's The Mating Game. Even left-leaning women (and self-avowed feminists) often still have the expectation that men pursue them and pay for dates. She found this was mostly true for women who want to get married and have children. Women who didn't want marriage and/or children were generally less attached to gendered dating scripts. This was for women in the SF bay area.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/09/21 11:48 PM
8

Underrated perspective. Feminism is a capitalist's dream. Divide and conquer the middle and lower classes while bolstering the narrative that value and success and equality only matter if they exist along an economic axis. Women work harder to become the economic elite, men work harder because they must both compete with and attract women who now have higher socioeconomic standards for marriage. Each gender blames the other for the gendered battles in which they find themselves, all the while fa…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/09/21 11:40 PM
2

As much as "Don't be weak" resonates, it also seems to be paired with a contradictory, "Don't be too strong/traditionally masculine." Is that what you meant by the "acceptable refractions that extend from that tenet"? Yes. It is partly what I meant, but more on the other side. Men can be emotional and expressive as long as they don't slip into "weak emotion" territory and convey helplessness or fear. It is interesting that you know of men being afraid of expressing their traditionally masculine …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/08/21 04:59 AM
4

True. But one of the results of the study was that women (except for black women) were willing to date men of their own race OR white men. Some non-white women even had a preference for white men. Meaning if you were a white man you had access to most women in much the same way that tall men have access to most women. And also most women, except black women as you acknowledge, had a specific antipathy towards black men. Interestingly, all men had an antipathy towards black women. Not doing the o…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/08/21 04:35 AM
3

What I don't think should be the case however is the monopoly women have in talking about men...On the other hand if a man was to do this I feel It would reflect rather badly on him in the eyes of others. Agreed. I personally don't think any heterosexual men/women should be saying things like "Women/Men should behave like this in order to be worthy of dating." I think if you find that the gender you want to date is behaving in a way that you dislike, then, rather than prescribing to them certain…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/08/21 03:21 AM
4

In my experience, it's mostly facial attractiveness and height. And race, which may not seem like a particularly limiting filter for Reddit's mostly white and male users. But researchers for an online dating (OLD) study found that heterosexual women users primarily filtered men based on race and attractiveness (Dating Divide). Women tended to prefer attractive white men. Admittedly this is online filtering rather than in-person filtering, but with OLD being increasingly the ways couples meet, I …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/08/21 02:54 AM
2

I think you're oversimplifying things quite a bit. Maybe there should be another zone in between green and yellow. Yep it's certainly a spectrum. From your characterizations you do seem to be in between Yellow and Green. And my intent was not to imply that the place where people fall is always a conscious decision. But I think people aren't aware of how their personalities are dictated by outside forces. People's personalities are shaped by their environments and their cultural narratives, so me…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/08/21 02:48 AM
3

Thank you for putting together this thoughtful post. In distilling so many threads into a coherent description of a "Swiss cheese version of masculinity" you have provided a helpful language to discuss the confusion. Thank you for your thanks. It is why I wrote something like this. I believed it could help people. As Mother to an adolescent son, I think a lot about whether, what and how to teach him about concepts of masculinity. I think the central tenet of masculinity is "Don't be weak." All o…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/21 06:24 PM
9

I think this is true of many women. All women know what it is like to live within society's contradictory expectations of " What it means to be a woman," but very few women know what it is like to be a man, to live within the contradictory expectations many women have of men. Many women who view men exclusively through the lens of "male privilege" don't even think there are any societal constraints on male behavior and instead think men are like women with just more privileges rather than a comp…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/21 05:48 PM
3

Of course working class men (who do likely embody this traditional masculinity) also expect a certain level of traditionality from their women and also have incomes and jobs which make them undesirable romantic partners to professional status women. What I wanted to convey in the picture is that the space of acceptable/desired masculinity is not merely getting smaller but it is getting more arbitrary, almost like a gerrymandered electoral map in America. The lines of the map of masculinity are n…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/21 05:34 PM
6

In a sense, what these people are doing is attempting to "colonize" masculinity. Masculinity and male identity is not something that should be allowed to develop on its own and determine its own direction, instead it should be colonized and controlled, allegedly for its own benefit, but in reality for the advantage and "better life" of the colonizers. This is a great way to put it. Western society now views masculinity as inherently dangerous, as something that needs to be tamed and reeled in an…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/21 05:30 PM
4

I think it is a mistake to treat these opinions as devoid of credibility. These are LinkedIn posts with 1000s of comments and from the comments (which you unfortunately need a LinkedIn account to see), it is clear that many women agree with her. Even if not every professional woman wants the exact same image of a traditional man as that shown in the posts, many do want some traditional aspects. Whether these views are representative is easier to determine. Ellen Lamont's The Mating Game intervie…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/21 05:21 PM
5

They are the same women. And you can't see it because of the type of links I sent, but many women in the comments are agreeing with her and say that she's articulating something that they have always felt.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/21 05:13 PM
8

What I love about the LinkedIn posts is that LinkedIn is a site for professionals and many of the women in the comments have moved beyond their gender roles by entering the traditionally male workforce, but still expect a certain traditional model of a man. (Note: To see the comments you need a LinkedIn account). I'm reading Ellen Lamont's The Mating Game and the professional women in the book reflect similar contradictions. They delayed marriage to focus on their careers and they expect a man t…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/21 05:12 PM
2

Forgot to include a summary statement: The demurring and conscientious guys who struggle with dating sometimes do so because in internalizing feminist complaints about dating, these men attempt to be inoffensive to everyone. But this renders them without a personality and thus unattractive to women. Instead, in order to be successful in dating they often have to be willing to offend prospective dating partners and go after what they want even if it isn't universally culturally acceptable.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/21 05:04 PM
4

The happiest men in my life are the people in the yellow zone. They are good guys, but they can definitely come off as brash or assholish in the right contexts. Most importantly though, they don't give a fuck what anyone thinks about them. If they do something and someone is offended, let them be offended. If they know they were being reasonable, it's on the other person to be more comfortable. Completely agree. But fortunately I think even the Green zone men get to the Yellow zone eventually. F…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/21 05:01 PM
5

This was very well articulated and comprehensive. Really enjoy these tempered academic comments. I think it deserves its own post.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/08/21 02:53 PM
1

She or he is unintentionally summarizing the justification for MGTOW. Replacing men with women we have: [Men] don't ask [women] out because they are doing all the other things (that [women] can also do) to not have to need to go begging strangers for a solid hour or two of attention based purely on what the stranger looks like. Solipsism is likely preventing the poster from recognizing the symmetry
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/21 05:07 AM
1

Worse, when it comes to theorizing, men have the opposite problem: they are impatient for levels of clarity and certainty that go beyond the data we have. They extrapolate from everything to create these comprehensive theories of the world that go well beyond the evidence. +1 for this. Physics is replete with men and their grand unified theories of the universe. Never thought of it as a male-centric thing (even though much fewer women propose such theories) but it fits in with gendered norms aro…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/21 02:54 AM
2

My god. Isn't the recent history ratio essentially the 20%-80% ratio men are always talking about?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/08/21 07:44 PM
3

I try my best to stay away from that sub because it makes me sad and angry. I have indeed heard from women (professional women with well-paying jobs) that they still want men to pay for them because it shows he cares. So many of these biases are ingrained in all of us. What is unfortunate is that people only seem willing to interrogate these biases and change them when they are not advantaged by them.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/07/21 09:34 PM
2

Yep I get that. I think Gay's behavior in this debate is a representation of the way many feminists argue their positions. Their arguments are more coercive and along the lines of "How horrible or stupid can you be to not agree with my obvious perspective on these social problems?" To be fair, this is how liberals in general argure with conservatives. Gay's initial statement about not wanting to explain what feminism is since "everyone should already know what it is," lacks incredible self aware…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/06/21 03:22 PM
3

Quite true. And in the same way that Camille Paglia is a feminist. There's an online discussion between them which felt like a breath of fresh air after watching this Gay-v-Sommers debate.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/06/21 02:13 PM
4

"Who cares what the reasons are? There's a paygap!" This was the most egregious things Gay said. Strangely, I'm sure she would be interested in the reasons for the gap if men were to talk about male suicide rates or educational disparities. But Gay is not stupid; surely she realizes how crazy this sounds. Perhaps she was caught in the heat of the debate. What is incredible to me is that her rebuttals sound perfectly reasonable and correct to the audience. It shows that once one gets far enough d…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/06/21 02:11 PM
12

Old Bill Burr. Classic. The artists/creatives always get there before the academics.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/06/21 02:42 AM
23

The views of the interviewed women can be summarized with the cynical saying: Gender equality in the streets; Gender norms in the sheets. Feminists often characterize men's complaints about inequalities in dating and relationships as petulant and irrelevant to feminism, but I think they are an essential, if not the essential, obstacle to men accepting feminism more widely because dating and relationships are the arenas in which all heterosexual men have gendered interactions with women. If such …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/06/21 02:35 AM
2

I think there is a deep solipsism in some people's view of equality. They want to be free from their own social contracts and they think that when they are free everyone else will be free, but when these other people point to the social contracts that bind them, specifically, the first group acts like this second group's pursuit of freedom is just an attempt to oppress them. So few people seem willing to step outside of their reference frame to see how other's lives are constrained by systems th…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/04/21 11:11 PM
3

We shouldn't cede too much argumentative territory here. So many debates are won even before they are started because one side agrees to how the other side defines the debate's main "problem." The "oh, poor baby..." sense you describe is often expressed by women who are looking at this scenario from their own perspective. No woman would accept a man doing something similar about a problem that concerns her. How would women react if they complained about an unequal share of housework and men said…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/04/21 05:28 PM
3

Reminds me of a quote from Warren Farrell's Why Men Are The Way They Are When women's consciousness was raised, women ended up seeing housework as their shit work ; when men's consciousness is raised, risking sexual rejection will be seen as the male shit work .
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/04/21 03:29 PM
5

This is so on point, but men are never warned against it happening. People routinely warn women "Some men will use you for sex, and throw you away when they're tired of you," but no one tells men "Some women will use you for emotional support and throw you away when they're tired of you." So men keep providing emotional support to women, believing that they are building a relationship when the woman is just using them for the moment.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/04/21 03:27 PM
5

Yes. It's not only your sisters. American society for the past few decades has been telling men many many stories about how they casually infringe on women's freedoms, and conscientious men have responded by trying to become the anti-thesis of the men women complain about. Of course, it would have been better if men recognized the meta-message contained in these complaints: Women are complaining about the men they are constantly interacting with and not the men they are ignoring, so if you want …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/04/21 04:32 PM
4

With regard to the first question: Maybe a bit of both? Environmental factors can shape biology over time. What is clear is that it is very ingrained in humans and it is also hard for them to recognize that they are doing it. Still whether it's biological or not, I think it is amenable to change. I'm somewhat confused by what you mean in the second paragraph. Is it that feminism led you towards being more feminine? What do you mean that you "give more credence to the ideas that hurt you than don…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/04/21 11:48 PM
6

I posted some links (related post) above of our culture refracting this phenomenon. Here is an article linking to studies about the attractiveness of bisexual men. Here is another article published last year in a well established science journal which makes the case the bisexuality in men indeed exists. (I mean imagine anyone publishing an article today saying essentially "Hmm. It indeed seems that homosexuality exists.") Note there is no analogous study for women.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/04/21 11:38 PM
29

Interesting perspective. It fits in with the common experience of men who say many women act hysterically when they (i.e., women) are denied sex by men. Men who tell a woman "No" to sex are in a way telling her "You don't have power over me in the ways you were taught you have power over me," and because many women think that sex is one of the few ways they have power over men, they seem to experience mini-identity crises where their entire framing of the world has been imbalanced. Encountering …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/04/21 09:07 PM
32

As a dude who dates men and women, I can relate to the anger in your post. It palpably reflects everything I've felt when dealing with women and my sexuality. The truth is many women really do like traditional forms of masculinity. They just dislike the parts that they think limit their freedom. With regard to the other parts, many women's views of men are based on fairytale ideals of what masculinity is, and because women don't have to live within the box of this fairytale, they are seldom disa…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/04/21 08:58 PM
3

Yep. After reading it, I felt like someone had just turned on the light in a dark room. Many of her podcast interviews are similarly enlightening.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/04/21 08:23 PM
5

"Man up" is motivated by empathy. Men are not identical to women. While women can rely emotionally on social support, men have a deep internal need for a feeling of self-reliance. If this is replaced with "male feminism" men are not reaching well-being but the exact opposite. Women are likewise expecting men, innately, to be self-reliant and to demonstrate it and will generally reject dependent men (this includes feminists). This is an interesting perspective. On one hand I see what you mean. By…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/04/21 08:20 PM
4

It seems that women were indeed blocked from practicing both medicine and law in England. Of course this is just a single country, but England is also the mother country of America and Dr. Reynolds is an American so it is not surprising her focus is so Western-centric.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/04/21 03:35 PM
8

I'm not really sold on the whole "Humans are naturally more Empathetic to Women" argument. From History, we know that Men used to treat Women Harshly(compared to Modern era). Hitting women for "Discipline" was Nomralized Your last statement follows from the notion that women have historically been regarded more like like children than as fully-realized adults. I don't think you would say people have less empathy for children than for adults just because children are physically disciplined. IMHO …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/04/21 03:30 PM
10

See my response here. Women who were of the class to have access to education only had access to certain types of education. I do however agree that a class-barrier prevented most people from having access to education, so both class and gender were pertinent.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/04/21 03:16 PM
10

I think the phrase "for centuries" is important here. She doesn't say "for the vast majority of human history." Also she says "were denied educational and occupational opportunities that men could take for granted." This isn't to say that women were denied education outright. Women have for centuries been allowed to be educated for caregiving and teaching positions, but there was a professional ceiling on what they could be educated for. They couldn't, for example, be educated to be doctors thou…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/04/21 03:13 PM
4

The notion that men must be the pursuer and women must be the prize is as old as time. It is held up by people who think its slutty for a girl to ask a man out and pitiful for a man to date a girl who takes the lead. This leads to rape of both men and women, men because the implication that you must always want it removes consequences for the woman and allows for rape and women because they are a prize to be won through any cost and one that should not be won. Yes. Women have a lot of sexual ent…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/04/21 02:31 PM
31

Agreed. We must first paint the invisible cage if we are ever to escape from it.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/04/21 10:44 AM
2

The discussions in this post are drawing to a close, so I'm going to wrap-up with a final comment. I think my original claim (i.e., that male supremacy does not exist) is not universally true. The original claim was based on known disparities in male educational and health outcomes and the apparent indifference society has regarding said disparities (citation). However, this seems to reflect a collective lack of empathy for men and a sense of male disposability rather than a sense that men are i…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/04/21 02:06 AM
1

This is an interesting point. And here I think race provides a good analogy. America (taken as an example since I am American) no longer has a legal system of race-based discrimination, but would you say that white people are still believed to have more value than people of other races? I would think so. Does this mean white supremacy currently exists in the west? This is a harder question. Perhaps this relative value does not represent an institutionalized form of currently existing white supre…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/04/21 01:54 PM
1

Thank you for your additional two comments. Our respective positions in this discussion have been clarified and future readers now have additional context with which to evaluate whether patriarchy by the definition I gave exists or does not exist.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/04/21 01:46 PM
1

No where in my post did I say that I was using feminist theory to define patriarchy. (I motivated the post by saying we should not be inconsistent in the way feminists are inconsistent) My definition comes directly from the first sentence in wikipedia entry for patriarchy.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/04/21 01:42 PM
4

I agree with your taking issue with that. It doesn't make sense, and feminist's main argument for it seems to be that the patriarchy locks men into gender roles which lead to only a partial realization of their humanities. Which is of course true but is also something to which feminists only pay lip-service. They don't really care about relinquishing men from their gender roles, especially if relinquishing men in such ways would require women to acquire new responsibilities or to lose certain pr…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/04/21 12:11 AM
1

I think it is hard to contest that what I wrote down "is not what patriarchy is" given that the very name "patriarchy" means "father (men) rule". It is not a "made up" (as in arbitrary) definition. It is a definition which is derived from the word itself. Now the word could be used differently from it' original definition (by which I mean it could have different modern connotations) but that does not mean that it doesn't have a precise definition. Women might make up the majority of the electora…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/04/21 12:02 AM
5

Right. I think feminists do this intentionally. By saying that "patriarchy" and "male supremacy" go hand-in-hand you can make the moral argument that all men should be on board to dismantle the patriarchy, and thus feminists need not admit that what they are seeking is not real gender equality (because why would they want to be rendered as disposable as the average man) but access to power. They are of course making a false-equivalence, as it is easy to point out, but it seems they think the log…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/04/21 08:02 PM
5

When feminists talk about their desire to "destroy the patriarchy" they primarily want to destroy the social and political system that has locked women out of power. Feminists have no interest in destroying the system that says men do not have intrinsic value. This is why they are at best indifferent (and typically hostile) to the issues of average men and are only interested in acquiring the privileges that are held by the men they see as constituting the patriarchy. At the same time they do no…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/04/21 07:08 PM
2

Why do you say "there is no female libido around to judge it?" Don't women also discuss the sexual market place in which case their libido is affecting their judgments? Judgments which you say include some sense of whether a man is "alpha" and "beta" (or clicks the "alpha" or "beta" switches)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/04/21 08:47 PM
1

I think the Match group is a predatory corporation that designs their products like slot machines and to create enough desperation in a desperate group that they shell out cash to get their profile noticed a bit more. Perfectly put. And so obvious if one simply thought about it. Since their business model is essentially a subscription based model, they need a relatively constant if not increasing number of subscribers. Having a product that facilitated people joining, finding a relationship and …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/04/21 08:34 PM
1

The whole point of his post is that THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN ALPHA MALE OR A BETA MALE. This was not the whole point of the author's post. The author said that "alpha" and "beta" are female-derived notions that characterize how women subliminally value men, and that men do not value men in these ways. Here are the sections I'm basing this on (boldface mine) You can now discern the origin of the Alpha and Beta terms. It is a female notion. It refers to a female state of... well, not mind, but…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/04/21 08:03 PM
2

You have to admit it's a bit of a mind-boggle to hear everyday for the first two decades of your life about gender equality only to find that it has an asterisk attached to it. People coming to this knowledge should be surprised. I don't think acceptance is the best advice, but I think this comes from my unwillingness to accept the state of the world as it currently is. The quickest way for men to gain respect is for them to fulfill the standards of utility society has set for them, but this jus…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/03/21 06:38 PM
3

Totally agree about the validation piece. People should not seek validation from anyone. I think the issue is that when you have a problem that you and many like you can clearly see, and then the wider society does not merely not-validate that problem, but actually says that said problem does not exist. I think that is where the anger comes from. By saying "join the military" it seems like you're sidestepping the main question and thus reinforcing the idea that the problem does not exist, and al…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/03/21 02:20 PM
2

People say you should just "play the game" but I know myself well enough to know I wouldn't be happy with that. So I'm willing to die on this hill, and only when enough men think the same will there be any chance for real change. Of course, enough guys would have to think like me in the first place (in terms of what they genuinely want), and I have no idea if that is the case or not. I have actually "played the game" just to establish a counter-factual, and I was definitely more successful in da…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/03/21 02:03 PM
4

Thanks for reading. I think it's important to have these discussions. There aren't many good spaces for them yet, so it's typically either hard to find people willing to rigorously engage with these ideas, or it's too easy to find people who are too ideologically motivated in your direction and who automatically agree with you. Consequently the arguments cannot grow to become more than just caricatures of the ideas they're arguing against. I'm glad that LWMA is currently different from such spac…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/03/21 02:28 AM
3

Thanks for linking your post. I think when people use evolutionary arguments to justify why existing dating practices should continue, they are really just using a currently accepted standard of knowledge to justify what they already believe. They don't really believe in the evolutionary argument, as is clear when they apply it selectively, because they first formed their conclusion about how dating should be and then used evolutionary theory to rationalize why that conclusion made sense. Kind o…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/03/21 02:19 AM
1

The last sentence of your comment reminds me of this ad: https://www.ispot.tv/ad/tnBK/selective-service-system-stronger-america
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/03/21 09:27 PM
2

This is a good point. But I think concluding that tribalism and xenophobia is uniquely brutal comes from the advantage of hindsight. The way our society grinds people down, throws them away, and then blames them for being so thrown is also brutal. And people have an enormous capacity to change and grow, in spite of biological drives, so I think people can learn to be empathetic for people they never before considered deserving of empathy. I guess I am being a bit fuzzy about this, but I do think…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/03/21 09:08 PM
7

Oh I think when men complain about women, they are also complaining primarily about the women they have been in relationships with because it is those interactions which are sufficiently deep that when the relationships go bad they can lead to trauma. And I do think men complain a bunch about women (many subreddits attest to this). I think what is different is that such complaining is not culturally sanctioned. You're right about the "if you don't want to stay single" remark. Many women who want…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/03/21 08:12 PM
2

It does seem as though the most recent waves of feminism have devolved into this lop-sided inspection of gender roles to the advantage of women, but we should acknowledge that feminism did have a past where women primarily sought citizenship rights such as the right to work and vote. Something has led the movement astray, and I think many women who uncritically accept the tenets of feminism (even if they are not avowed feminists themselves) are losing something of their humanity in their current…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/03/21 07:08 PM
1

I absolutely agree that the assumption that CHWM don't experience the sort of superficial identity-based judgments that other groups experience is wrong. I think we are all trapped in narratives written by people who are not us, and others always interpret us through these narratives. Just as there are narratives around femaleness and blackness and gayness that can lead a black queer woman to feel as though people see her as a caricature of a person, there are narratives around maleness and whit…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/03/21 08:46 PM
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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