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bluestjuice Archive

View 2 posts and 10,765 comments by bluestjuice on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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Upvotes Title Category Author Subreddit Date (UTC)
119

Question For Menbluestjuice/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/22 01:12 PM
17

Question For Menbluestjuice/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/23 05:23 PM
Showing the 1,000 most recent of 10,765 comments.
Upvotes Comment on Subreddit Date (UTC)
–

I think this is a reasonable observation. It gets interesting because it positions two frameworks against each other in a way that happens to break along gender lines but doesn't have to -- that's an artifact of how society happened to work in the last hundred years. If we peel apart the gendered part for a minute and just look at the two frameworks in isolation, it's interesting to contemplate the question of which is 'better' or more egalitarian or desirable for society or whatever: growing up…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/26 10:13 PM
–

The degree to which penises are not necessarily relevant to sexual fantasy is really boggling to those who possess penises.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/26 07:08 PM
–

I mean, isn't porn mostly full of men with large (or medium-large) dicks? I admit I've never gone looking specifically for small-dick porn, but I sort of assume that even average guys are going to be shot in such a way as to make their dicks look large.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/26 07:06 PM
–

It is wild how this question is clearly written to discuss opinions on spousal support/alimony specifically, yet the responses wander around through alimony, division of marital assets, and child support. Those are three separate things!
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/26 06:20 PM
–

IANAL so take this with a grain of salt, but my understanding is that divorcing no-fault eliminates considering fault from the proceedings, but also relieves the burden of proof and the legal process that would be necessary to prove fault if you were to want to do that. In order to have a court take cheating (or any other fault) into account they would have to establish that it took place, which takes time and resources. A lot of the time even if providing proof would be relatively straightforwa…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/26 06:18 PM
–

They wrote, "a minority," not nonexistent.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/26 06:12 PM
–

Perhaps. There are a lot of reasons why that might be the case, so it would be interesting to study more.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/26 03:57 PM
–

You're saying Redditors aren't a representative sample of people out in the world?! Nah, I mostly agree with this but my reasoning is somewhat different. I think you shouldn't take dating advice from Reddit (no matter anyone's gender) because what you generally need is advice on how to improve your odds with the people you want to date in your own personal milieu, and that can be very different from one place to another. So while it's probably true that Redditors aren't terribly representative, …
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/26 02:22 AM
3

Such a weird mentality. Life will test us all enough as it is. No need to make up extra shit tests on top of it.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/26 02:02 AM
1

According to Professor Higgins in My Fair Lady, this is a very feminine trait. "She will beg you for advice Your reply will be concise And she'll listen very nicely Then go out and do precisely what she wants."
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/26 09:55 PM
1

We've only had antidepressants and reliable birth control for 60ish years. This is like saying that 78% of women have full time jobs and we've never had such outrageously high social media usage.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/26 09:13 PM
1

Yeah. If anything I think there might be something to the idea that women aren't raised with the idea that they are supposed to be a provider, so ending up at a female provider dynamic probably requires a few more mental steps along the way than at a co-contributor dynamic.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/26 09:08 PM
1

does the fact that women increasingly make money necessarily mean they’re not inclined to want someone who can provide? I'm not sure if there is any kind of research we can look at that digs into this question exactly, but my supposition is that there is a meaningful difference in mindset between a person who is looking for a partner who will provide and a person who is looking for a partner who will share the effort of supporting and maintaining a household and home with them. Externally this m…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/26 09:05 PM
–

Yeah, I'm not talking about the people or the physical infrastructure of the modern world, I was referring to the laws, policies, social norms, beliefs, institutions, etc by which modern society operates.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/26 04:46 PM
-1

Cool, I'm going to refer you back to my thesis statement upthread: modern society was created by the combined efforts of men, women, and nonbinary people. You have a lot to say but I'm not going to dissect your total worldview and debate it point by point.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/26 12:59 AM
2

No, that comparison is absurd. Men are the direct representatives for men in society. There are a great many of them and they inhabit all of the governing and business institutions. Male access to levers of power has not been abridged, and no one is talking seriously anywhere about doing so.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/26 11:37 PM
-1

Society has changed a ton in the past 100 years, but all of these changes were driven by men and women working in concert. There is very little that women all by themselves reshaped, much as there is not much that men did all by themselves. Even feminism, though a significant social movement, isn't necessarily the defining social movement of the past 100 years or the group/ideology/movement most responsible for shaping our present society. Disclaimer: I don't know what movement would actually be…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/26 10:48 PM
1

Again: It's not racist to not be attracted to specific traits and behaviors. I don't think I argued against that, though? I already agreed that nobody needs to date someone they don't want to, so no argument there.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/26 08:35 PM
0

Right, but lots of straight woman are happy to have their man engaging/ed in gay sexuality. Like this is a non-issue to a lot of straight women. So what you're describing isn't a 'straight woman' thing, it's something else. ETA: autocucumber is murdering me, fixed.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/26 08:26 PM
1

There's an interesting side conversation to be had here about if/how another person's orientation dovetails with their gender and how that relates to a person's own sexual orientation. It could probably be argued that we really need more nuanced terminology to capture the variances: like one descriptor for what I'm attracted to on the gender spectrum (male, female, enby, agender, any, some specific combination) and another for what sexual orientations I like my partners to have. I know queer fol…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/26 08:12 PM
3

I mean, yeah, potentially, haha. It really depends on the actual reason presented.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/26 07:59 PM
2

The bar for racism is not actually discriminating against them. I don't actually think this holds, though. That sounds like a reasonable definition for racist behavior -- which to be clear, I think is an important thing to avoid. But it's also common for people to have racist beliefs or thoughts that they actively work against, or at least try not to show through their behavior. That prejudice is also racism even if it isn't as overt. None of which negates people's prerogative to date whom they …
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/26 07:47 PM
5

No, that's not right. Critiquing anyone's romantic choices is fair game (though of course the critique should hold water). Entitlement would be expecting women to change their behavior to meet your (generi-you) needs. People can critique behavior they believe to be flawed without expecting a particular change as a result.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/26 07:39 PM
11

Consider the possibility that all the things you mentioned as "acting like men" are just miscellaneous things that humans can do. The only reason you think those things are manly is because somewhere you learned from the people around you that they were. People just do the things they want to do, or the things that help them reach their own goals. Simple.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/26 05:25 PM
–

Present Afternoon touched on the wilder parts of this comment already, so I'm ignoring those. Your idea about low-trust societal norms resurging after ~2000 bears some scrutiny though. I think that likely has more to do with the internet than feminism, though -- proximity to others (particularly others of other groups) tends to reduce in-group/out-group tension, by teaching us that others are more like us than unlike, and by building trust between members of disparate groups. My guess would be t…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/26 05:04 PM
2

It can certainly be both. Racism often makes people uncomfortable with people from other races.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/26 04:54 PM
17

I see this topic and similar ones about other dating preferences come up a lot, and the mistake is the same in all of the cases. There are two separate, albeit related, questions to consider. One is the question of examining one's own relationship and sexual preferences for conscious and unconscious bias and prejudice. Every one of us has biases and prejudices, and these show up in our beliefs and actions in various ways, including dating. Assuming that one holds a value of human equality and de…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/26 04:50 PM
7

Feminism doesn't train women to look at perfectly neutral shit and arbitrarily decide it's evil. 100%. The more traditionalist here hold up feminism as an interloper standing between men and women preventing them from having trusting relationships, but this ignores the fact that women have understood since forever that some men will do them harm and that many will not have their best interests in mind. Feminism has fuck-all to do with that knowledge. It's such old news that it would be pretty ea…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/26 03:56 AM
2

I think people put a lot of moral weight on questions that are basically down to approach or personal preference. Like, as long as you care about the people you're in relationships with and spend time and effort on those relationships, the exact nature of the relationships and exactly how you prioritize if shit hits the fan is none of my business, really. Just don't be a totally antisocial hermit, and be good to your people.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 04:16 PM
1

Yeah, this POV is more reflective of upper- and middle-class parenting than lower-class.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 04:12 PM
1

This is one of the few things you and I agree on, which makes me think it's less of a 'liberal' issue than you posit. The steady rise in helicopter parenting and the broader societal norms and structures that encourage it are unfortunately pervasive across demographics (even among those over 50, which I find really strange). Fighting this requires bipartisan effort, I think.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 04:11 PM
1

Sure, I guess, but that isn't really where I was going with that. It's not that it doesn't make sense how we arrived here. It's just that financial security and a decent standard of living are the next big social justice issue to focus on, probably.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 04:08 PM
0

This is a total side tangent and not an answer to your question, but something in the way you wrote your post highlighted something I hadn't noted in quite this way before. Namely: the way you summarized traditional expectations for female and male gender roles ("expectations like being the primary homemaker, caregiver, or having to depend on a husband financially, [vs.] be[ing] providers, protectors, initiators"). Of these expectations, nearly all of them are now optional for most people, or ca…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/26 12:11 AM
3

I'm less interested in this from a 'did you make a bad choice?' perspective, and more from a 'how many bad choices does it take to show a pattern of consistency?' perspective. There's a much-hashed-out discussion to be had about the agency of a person who made a bad dating choice, and whether they acted with full knowledge and awareness, etc. etc. But when you say, "a woman who consistently chooses bad men," it makes me headtilt, because are we talking about choosing bad partners twice in a row,…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/26 09:45 PM
3

Good points. Back in Ye Olden Days, when "the ick" hadn't entered slang yet, this concept was called "trusting your gut." It was validated as a concept that would increase the odds of staying safe (albeit in awkward tension with other ideals that prioritized smoothing over interpersonal discomfort). My late grandmother actually had a story about her and her friend jumping out of a car when hitchhiking when the driver started to make them nebulously uncomfortable. This would have been in the late…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/26 07:33 PM
6

We don’t get “the ick.” Rather we have rational reactions which we express rationally. Not really, though. Rationalizing something you (generi-you) find to be a turn-off is perfectly normal and most everybody does it, but the initial reaction of being turned off is the part colloquialized as "the ick." A rational reaction to something you describe above without accompanying 'ick' would look more like attraction and interest paired with a (regretful) rational decision not to engage due to the dea…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/26 07:16 PM
2

To be fair we probably all need to take accountability for choosing living situations with workloads we don't have time and energy to maintain well.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/26 02:04 AM
4

This is so true. I have a work colleague who does this excessively and I'm trying to train her out of it because it's unnecessary and neither of us needs the guilt burden added to whatever task is at hand. There is an important place for apologies and asserting ownership of a mistake or error in judgment when appropriate, but importantly, that should be directed to the person who was wronged. Not the world at large.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/26 01:50 AM
1

You are failing here to draw a necessary distinction between what I personally believe and what can be determined via logical deduction. My personal beliefs don't actually matter. We are delving into the logical support for a claim which means we can only eliminate options we can disprove. My failures in this debate mostly have to do with losing track of the various discussion threads over the course of multiple days. Which, fair enough.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/26 09:47 PM
1

Actually, no. People are sometimes assholes, no mental illness required. Some people believe metaphysical things that I find absurd, but again, that doesn't make them mentally ill. Despite my agnosticism I can't casually diagnose mental illness simply because someone's unfalsifiable beliefs differ from mine. Because I can't prove the absence of demons I can't entirely exclude them from consideration, despite finding them very unlikely. This is the reason why I said that this hypothetical is irri…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/26 07:30 PM
1

I don't think your hypothetical is really offered in good faith either, to be fair. My response to it remains the same -- this person might have mental health issues of some type, or maybe they just really like making people uncomfortable. Maybe they've been spoken to by actual demons (I don't personally find that likely, but it's not a thing that is unheard of for people to genuinely believe), or actually believe they have been. Maybe they are saying random things for attention and believe none…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/26 07:14 PM
1

Okay, so you really just don't understand what gender is. Did you look up the definition yesterday as I suggested? I honestly don't have any capacity to evaluate the mental health of your hypothetical person. Not only is that absolutely not my expertise, but I also think there are a number of other reasons why a person might want to do something I consider dangerous or ill-advised. Mental illness is not a catchall in this way.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/26 04:39 PM
1

Cool. I think there might be things to quibble about in there, but I'm not a biologist so that's close enough for me. Now do gender!
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/26 04:03 PM
1

I didn't answer you because your question is a dodge. In the context of this debate, you made a claim. "The vast overwhelming majority of human history and knowledge" isn't a reasoned support, it's a straightforward appeal to tradition. You have to actually defend your claim with reasons.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/26 03:34 PM
1

You made a claim, currently the burden of proof is on you. Naturally I have my own opinions but that's beside the point at present. You can look up the dictionary definitions for 'sex' and 'gender' if you need to, and then explain your stance in relation to them. You don't need me for this. This exchange thus far hasn't given me any sense that you've engaged deeply with the concept of gender at all. Which to be fair lots of people don't, but then it seems strange to be so firmly committed to an …
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/26 03:55 AM
1

These “gender diverse” people were always wrong in every time period. This piece here is the specific piece you aren't providing support for. Even the DSM5 The DSM5 is revised on an ongoing basis as the scholarship evolves. This only proves a specific psychiatry community's consensus at a moment in time, but nothing absolute. See all of the science we call biology. Gender isn't sex, what are you talking about‽
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/26 03:29 AM
1

So, your argument here is, 'yes these people existed in all these times and places, but that doesn't count because they often experienced stigma, which it so happens I agree with.' You're not contesting that gender diverse people have always existed (point 1). You opined that gender diverse people are freaks, weirdos, and mentally ill, which is an unsupported opinion, and also that there's no evidence that it's actually true that gender diverse people are the gender they say they are, rather tha…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/26 02:43 AM
3

I think it's probably reasonable to tease apart the technological developments of reliable birth control from the sociocultural advancement of women's rights. Although they overlapped in terms of chronology (somewhat -- women's rights expansions occurred over a significantly longer period) and impact each other, they each have contributed to declining birth rates in unique ways.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/26 11:45 PM
1

If the goal is to get support structures from the government, unionizing isn't a very useful mechanism. If the idea is that working spouses should be providing additional funds, I think this idea ignores the issue of many single-earner families operating on really thin margins and subsidizing that by taking on increased risk (i.e. failing to save an 'appropriate' level for future security, not carrying consumer debt, etc.) Probably everyone with an actual employer should unionize however, and th…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/26 12:55 AM
0

Probably, but the phrasing upthread was ambiguous enough that I thought it was worth typing it all out really explicitly for anyone who reads this far down. 🙃
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/26 12:48 AM
1

It's not even "on day 28 they are more attracted to 'more masculine men' than they are to their 'less masculine' husbands." It's: "on day 28 they are more attracted to 'more masculine men' than they otherwise would be and less attracted to their 'less masculine' husbands than they are the rest of the time." Which is to say: these two groups of men don't swap places. The attraction to group 1 goes up a wee bit and the attraction to group 2 goes down a wee bit, and that's it.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/26 12:43 AM
1

Sure. I'm not contesting that. All I said was that you haven't shown that the vast majority of women aren't attracted to their partners.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/26 12:40 AM
1

What about it? That's fine. It doesn't have anything to do with whether they are attracted to their husbands. People can be attracted to multiple people and attributes at the same time.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/26 10:04 PM
1

Because when someone is very very attracted to their husband, if that attraction drops a small percent for a week, they would nevertheless be very very attracted.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/26 09:43 PM
1

Yes, and again, that can be true at the same time that it is true that they are very attracted to their husbands.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/26 09:39 PM
-1

Which presumably means they feel more attracted to them during their luteal phase, etc. You understand how relativity works, correct? The finding was a small downshift during ovulation. That could mean, for example, someone with 99% attraction to her husband most of the time was only 97% attracted to him during ovulation. Someone who was 85% attracted might shift down to 84%. And so on. Your study makes a claim about the downshifting phenomenon. I made a claim about the baseline attraction level…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/26 09:30 PM
10

What are you talking about, this study is about feelings about debt, not debt levels or spending habits.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/26 09:22 PM
1

The study you linked doesn't say that women aren't attracted to their affable husbands. The issue with your post here isn't that dominance has nothing at all to do with female attraction, but rather that you're developing a small amount of evidence into fully blown conclusions that aren't warranted. You're way too far out over your skis here.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/26 09:14 PM
1

You'd have to limit your position to only those people who hold the extreme position you describe herein. There are plenty of people who subject age gap relationships of one sort or another to scrutiny, but who don't believe everything you are describing. People can be in age-gap relationships and still scrutinize them harder than relationships with similar aged folks.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/26 09:09 PM
0

You touch on something worth calling out here, which is that to the degree that women find dominance sexy (as a character trait -- not talking here about power exchange in sex itself), self-dominance, aka self-control, is a big piece of that.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/26 08:56 PM
2

I mean, I didn't read 50 Shades so maybe I'm off. But was bro not a metrosexual finance guy or something? I don't think he's a great example of some 'roided up Wolverine or anything as hyper masculinity goes.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/26 08:51 PM
1

The devil is in the details here, right? For example there is a difference between 'dominant' and 'domineering,' even though it's certainly possible to be both. There's no evidence suggesting it's super common for women to want to date aggressive, frightening men. There also isn't any reason to believe that the vast majority of women who are dating stable, affable 'nice guys' aren't also attracted to them. In between the caricatures of 'aggressive dangerous man' and 'limp-wristed passive nice gu…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/26 08:44 PM
5

To be fair OP didn't quite cut to the chase of their question, the way I see it. I think the paraphrase you've given here is clear and concise.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/07/26 11:57 PM
3

I don't think this is a strawman since it addresses that specifically in the second paragraph.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/07/26 11:38 PM
5

Not what I was going for but also somewhat true, and quite funny.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/07/26 01:13 AM
2

Ah damn, this song slaps!
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/26 05:32 PM
13

Women say they can smell misogyny or insecurity This is the kind of statement that necessarily exists on a spectrum.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/26 05:11 PM
3

Regarding point 4, I think we need more data to really understand how many children are born from casual sex encounters. 'Out of wedlock' is too broad considering that category also holds committed relationships that elect not to marry (or have not married yet but plan to). Same issue with 'single mothers,' I'd like to see better data to differentiate between mothers who are partnered-but-unmarried and mothers who are truly single or in casual or uncommitted relationships.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/26 03:06 PM
1

My AuDHD ass totally agrees with that, but I do feel like there was some kind of a cultural shift. When I was young and direct instruction couldn't be had, the 'pain' of doing nothing was greater than the pain of trial and error, if that makes any sense. It feels like my perception then was that other people would treat you better for making an effort than doing nothing. Today it seems like the perception of young people is that people will treat you better for doing nothing than for doing somet…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/26 02:25 PM
2

Completely.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/26 02:22 PM
2

I see. I suppose my perspective is that while accounting for your own possessions is an important skill, it takes time to develop it and even fully mature and competent people will occasionally mislay things. I actually treat the corresponding skills (of being able to adapt on the fly when you've lost something you needed, and of being able to problem-solve to try to retrieve a lost item) as nearly equally important.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 08:36 PM
2

This is probably pretty accurate, but we aren't going to be able to establish a common definition along gendered lines unfortunately. Everyone has somewhat different expectations about how invested and intimate to be with friends vs. acquaintances vs. close friends vs. a potential romantic interest, it doesn't break cleanly along gendered lines.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 08:29 PM
3

But you didn't really answer me! You made a claim, can't you elaborate on it?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 08:26 PM
3

The purplest of purple responses.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 08:23 PM
1

But why is it pathetic? Can you articulate exactly what the pathos is in someone misplacing their water bottle and asking after it at the desk?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 08:16 PM
1

The one part of this post that I sort of agree with (and this is just anecdotal so I'm open to being wrong) is that young people seem less willing to just fuck around with doing something and figure it out through trial and error than I remember. It reads like an aversion to doing it wrong that they manage by seeking clarification and direct instruction. Unsurprisingly, this dovetails with the tendency we see here for some young men to seek explicit instruction on exactly what to do or not do in…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 08:13 PM
1

Pro tip: complaining about the idiocy of customers is customer service 101. No shade there, but you shouldn't draw broad conclusions about people as a whole or any particular demographics based on that distorted view. Also recommend not staying in customer service too long if you can't inject a healthy dose of humor and into your assessment. We're all just out here being people and a little bit absurd.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 08:02 PM
2

You sound young. Everyone messes up sometimes. Even perfectly normal, mostly competent people have areas of life they're bad at or just fuck up on occasion. You happen to be in the position where you get to see a lot of that all day long, but you're incorrectly inferring that the moment of dumbfuckery you see is representative of their whole life.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 07:58 PM
7

Er, when you are the person being paid to answer their questions, you are their resource.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 07:54 PM
1

Dear gods. This isn't a question that needs a definitive ruling. We can just leave 'whose job is it to address this?!' to the premature ejaculator and/or their partner(s) to address, if they wish to.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 05:45 PM
1

I think this is a classic example of a case where asking the people who participate in a thing about their reasoning and motivations and asking outsiders to speculate about them might result in very different answers.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 05:39 PM
2

This is a really good point. My teen draws beautiful anime-style girls not because she's obsessed with sex with them, but because she thinks they're incredibly pretty.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 05:36 PM
2

If we're describing a world where there are eleventy bajillion genders and gender roles, and people can easily and freely adopt whichever one(s) of them speak to them, yeah, sign me up.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/26 01:35 AM
1

Ah, hahaha, that makes so much more sense.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 04:53 PM
2

What? Where did that come from?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 04:44 PM
1

Just regular life.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 04:40 PM
5

I thought it did, but maybe your question was unclear.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 04:36 PM
17

BP is just "everybody else." This is like a group of penguins looking at all the other animals and being flabbergasted that the millipedes act totally different from the tigers.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 04:33 PM
5

people who object to age gap relationships in this way estimate that the sketchy reasons in the downward-dating direction are more prevalent, more damaging, more predatory, or some combination of all three, than their estimation of the sketchy reasons in the upward directions.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 04:30 PM
7

I think 'leveraging youth and beauty to secure huge amounts of money' falls under sketchy reasons, personally. But my post was meant to illustrate the logical principles at play. Analysing a specific case study is clearly different than analyzing a practice in the abstract, and I would expect anyone who engages seriously in this kind of thinking to be able to handle them separately.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 04:29 PM
–

Why is this post NSFW?!?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 04:25 PM
11

Not really. If you sat down and made a comprehensive list of reasons why a very young person might want to date a significantly older person, some of them would be banal and some of them would be sketchy. If you did the same for reasons why a significantly older person might want to date a very young person, again, some of them would be banal and some of them would be sketchy. All that is happening is that people who object to age gap relationships in this way estimate that the sketchy reasons i…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 04:23 PM
–

The only way to frame this as a 'men' thing is to believe that responsibility for a family's financial stability and procreating decisions falls mainly on men, which I do not. There is a nuanced conversation to be had about the tension between the value of ensuring stability and preparedness before having kids and the biological and cultural urge to have kids, and how all of that plays out in a world where economic stability is extremely challenging for the majority of people. But this simplisti…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 03:14 PM
6

No, I don't think most men would be fine with that. Our culture puts a lot of value on career and the financial independence and status it brings. Most people (of all genders) have that in their core value system. People who would be fine being a SAHP obviously do exist, but I would estimate that to be a largeish minority, 30-40% maybe.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 03:04 PM
2

And in a world where you have to have kids supervised all of the time and can't just send them off in little hordes to play together.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 03:00 PM
9

I agree with you that women do have choices, however you are wrong in saying that "women don't feel stuck." Many women do report these feelings. No doubt men also often feel stuck in this scenario.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 02:56 PM
0

First off, I don't actually agree that this sub is enthusiastic about tradwives. I think you mean that there is a loud contingent here that idealizes a breadwinner/SAHP dynamic, which is true, but tradwife lifestyles are a smaller subset of SAHP lifestyles and I actually don't see a ton of discussion of the most prevalent tradwife elements here. I'm thinking of homesteading, conservative religious conviction, homeschooling, self-sufficiency, families of 4+ children, the umbrella of authority, an…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 02:49 PM
2

the term as used in modern context is heavily weighted towards the context of men being chivalrous towards women Right, I understand that. My point is that this heavily gendered usage was superimposed over the older meaning of the word, and as our gender norms change it is appropriate to further adjust the usage accordingly.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 02:35 PM
2

To be honest, chivalry is far less about gender and far more about relative strength and weakness. It is about those with power making a principled choice to use their power to good ends, and to not take advantage over those they could overpower. Rendering aid and protection to beggars, pacifists, children, the elderly, and so on is completely within the chivalric ideal. And following this principle is something that people of any gender can attempt, if they have some degree of power.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 02:02 AM
3

This is really well put. When we had less access to information about places and peoples outside our direct experience, we understood at some level that we didn't really know about them. This is as true of people in a different socioeconomic bracket across town as it is of people around the world who speak a different language. Now we have more information, in discrete snippets, and it fools us into thinking that we know a lot more about the lived experiences of others who are quite different fr…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/26 01:55 AM
1

I just saw it last night. I have a bunch of complaints but my gods, the conservative complaints are such nothingburgers.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/26 07:22 PM
1

No, because if it were this is the lamest possible competition. Where are the footraces? The challenge to string a heavy-AF bow and shoot through a dozen axes? Weaksauce.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/26 07:16 PM
5

Exposure!
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/26 03:15 AM
7

As the comments here seem to show, people have different things in mind when they talk about decentering men.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/26 03:04 AM
–

I actually do think I'd put it as the threshold of middle age though! 30 seems too young, but 40 seems already in the thick of it to me.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 09:36 PM
1

Oh, yes! We agree.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 09:32 PM
–

Yeah, I feel like a lot of mid general dating advice isn't wrong per se, it's just lacking in all specificity. The people who are asking need to know exactly how to apply it to their own life.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 09:11 PM
1

Sure, that makes sense. I suppose I wouldn't consider that not knowing the general idea so much as failing to execute the measurements. But I hear what you're saying.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 09:09 PM
1

Right, I think the time to tell someone to make different choices is the time when you see them doing something damaging.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 09:01 PM
1

See, I'm generally willing to extend sympathy when someone suffers in some way, whether or not it was obvious. Maybe the tone of my sympathy might change? I'm not explaining this well. But I routinely say things along the line of "oh, that sucks. It's not surprising, but it sucks that it happened."
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 09:00 PM
1

Right, it isn't a math problem, it's a behavior problem. Which is exactly why it's hard. Changing behavior is hard. Trebly so when someone likes the behavior.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 08:52 PM
1

say "I currently don't have the capacity to focus on my weight" I totally agree. (Almost) everybody would like to lose weight if it would just happen via magical vibes. But in reality everyone is evaluating the benefit vs. the cost in their own specific situation.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 08:49 PM
1

No, they pretty much really do know. They just also know, or think, that changing their behavior will be extremely difficult due to <hormones, chemicals, medication, genetics, etc.> It really isn't that people don't know that eating more makes people fatter. It's that when they tried to eat less, it sucked for a variety of reasons and they couldn't keep it going.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 08:45 PM
–

Couple of things here. Yes, there is an aspect of this that is fair play. People who haven't dated in twenty years are not necessarily good advisors on the specific weirdnesses of Zennial dating dynamics. On the other hand, heterosexual relationships and gender dynamics exist as part of a historical continuum, which can make a longer view useful for offering meaningful perspective. Older people are also (potentially) capable of sharing wisdom about the human element, which changes more slowly an…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 08:38 PM
5

Bro, this is three paragraphs of 3 sentences each. What are we even doing here.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 02:40 PM
0

I think in general TRP ideas would be stronger if they limited the scope to be 'X, Y, and Z are attractive qualities to a lot of women, try to have those.' Generalizing too broadly and then using these generalizations to support whatever other sociological and political opinions/values they have are where these folks seem to get really lost in the sauce.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 02:35 PM
1

I don't have any real evidence one way or another to make broad statements about whether men or women are better or worse at self-identifying their 'level' or pairing that to their personal standards. It stands to reason some people are more ambitious and some are more humble in this regard, but it's such a nebulous concept I can't draw conclusions at the population level. Meanwhile the idea of a level itself is extremely subjective and changes drastically depending on what criteria you include …
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 01:00 PM
1

Yes, I'd agree with that.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 12:03 PM
2

Bro better scream like a parrot, that's required.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 06:15 AM
3

Yes, in fact. Arguing with trans folks about their gender is transphobia 101.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 06:05 AM
5

No worries, how were you to know? All good.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 05:55 AM
2

Facts.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 05:54 AM
0

No no, sorry, I mean online content -- short form videos and whatnot. My actual gym is fairly cool and eclectic but not dominated by lesbians. 😄
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 05:53 AM
2

I'm genderqueer, but I answer from the female pov here because I'm female-bodied and date men. Nobody ever posts Questions for Enbys...
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 05:52 AM
20

Ha, this is so relatable. I want him to look my way and hold my gaze and smirk. That's pretty much the entré into interested/attracted, then everything else is like a stepping stone along a path that ultimately leads to awesome sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/26 12:35 AM
4

Yeah that's fair.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/26 10:06 PM
2

It's probably me but I feel like if I'm willing to endure the awkwardness of taking my clothes off and shoving some guy's dick into my tonsils, I can do this. But yes, fair point, you can't be reasonably expected to answer for the perspective of a random cadre of women.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/26 09:37 PM
2

The amount or flavor of the sex != the amount of caring for the partner. That's it really.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/26 09:34 PM
5

Wait until you hear about polyamorous people who have different sexual dynamics with each partner.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/26 09:30 PM
5

A.) Wasn't it? I mean... it was different because smartphones weren't around yet. And I was probably more terminally online in the '00s than some. My take is that the internet was just as popular, but we used it differently.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/26 09:23 PM
6

Interesting theory. I think we should probably talk about class more here but it's a bit difficult since people come from such different backgrounds and it's trickier to self-identity into class vs. gender or political leanings etc.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/26 09:20 PM
1

Most women participating in a casual dating scene are not asking their partner to take an STD test before hooking up. Why not‽
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/26 09:13 PM
2

It's true that some women don't really know what they want, at least in some particular arena. It's sensible to hold space for that possibility in your head. Even so, it's presumptuous to decide that a particular woman doesn't know what she wants unless you actually have some evidence to suggest that. You can understand intellectually that women are fallible while simultaneously having the humility to recognize that another person is usually going to be more knowledgeable about their own thought…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/26 09:09 PM
1

No, I AM CHATGPT!
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/26 09:04 PM
4

I never saw so many slick cars until I moved to a historically Black neighborhood. 😍
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/26 09:00 PM
2

Everything is unmasculine. No wonder men are on the strugglebus.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/26 08:58 PM
43

There are basically liberal men in nearly any subculture someone might be into, too. Urban homesteaders? Liberals. Alternative music? Liberals. D&D? So many liberals. HEMA? Liberals. Reptile shows? Liberals there too. Not all of them, obviously, but there is this idea of liberal men as sort of hapless and unwilling to get their hands dirty and it's really just such a stereotype.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/26 08:57 PM
3

I swear 2/3 of my gym content is from ripped lesbians who are about 40x cooler than I'll ever be.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/26 08:51 PM
14

I think it's a byproduct of 'ivory tower liberal elites' vs. 'salt-of-the-earth working class conservative' imagery.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/26 08:47 PM
1

....why do you think Gone Wild Audio is full of anti-feminists?
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/26 10:35 PM
1

It's beta bucks with extra steps. But you do get to travel, which I can get behind. At least you're expanding your horizons in the process.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/26 10:34 PM
2

Side tangent but it's super interesting how the cultural concept of a midlife crisis has faded out a lot since the '90s. Also mental breakdowns (though I think some of that is swapping in more specific terms for various kinds of mental health collapses). I feel like both of these had their cultural heydays in the same postwar decades that traditional nostalgia tend to lionize.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/26 10:25 PM
3

This argument could get a lot farther if not knowing what you want, or changing your mind about what you want, were some kind of exclusively female trait. In fact this is something many, many people of every gender demonstrate. It does lead to some problems in dating and relationships, and that's about as far as you can take it.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/26 10:21 PM
2

No, I think you are mistaken about most of that.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/26 10:03 PM
1

The issue here is that you're talking about fairly extreme kinks that a relatively small number of people are open to.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/26 09:03 PM
1

Can we make Russian sex spy the new Florida man?
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/26 08:48 PM
2

What is mainstream media in this context?
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/26 08:36 PM
2

I only know about these people because they get brought up here, so while I'm not necessarily sure they're not widely known (I could live in a bubble), I'm not sure you can really draw broad conclusions from... anything to do with them. The more interesting debate here has to do with whether believing in a principle, such as sex positivity, means that you are not allowed to have opinions about various ways that principle might play out in the real world. This doesn't really hold up for the simpl…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/26 08:27 PM
1

Well thank goodness someone is having a good time!
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/26 01:08 AM
4

People who are charming have this tool in their toolkit and can deploy it in a variety of ways. Also Prince Seductive is not PG enough for Disney.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/26 12:42 AM
7

He's literally called Prince Charming. Not Prince Polite and Strong.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/26 12:16 AM
1

Sweet. I love long fashion colors.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/26 02:50 PM
1

I've cut all my fun color out for now and am growing length for awhile so I'm going to live vicariously through you!
/r/PurplePillDebate13/07/26 10:53 PM
6

Putting this in here because I'm not sure my comment really counts as disagreement. I'm not sure if it was you or another poster with a similar story, but in that case the difference and the reason I thought that poster was a bit off was that the person asking for help wasn't a random person he'd gone out with a couple of times. I tend to agree with you that calling up random people you went on a few dates with looking for labor is weird, or at least misunderstands the nature of the relationship…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/07/26 06:23 PM
1

No, I find it curious that OP doesn't.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/07/26 12:06 PM
2

Ah. You are generalizing the whole from an individual.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/07/26 12:04 PM
5

Oh sure, I don't mind that.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/07/26 01:44 AM
5

Wait, like what? You know lots of women live alone, right?
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 11:50 PM
5

That's fine. Women should live their lives according to the things they care about, not metrics men actually care about.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 11:46 PM
1

Well, I established upthread that if a SAHP is not meeting their obligations in that respect, the breadwinner shouldn't continue to facilitate that over a prolonged period. Either the breadwinner dynamic should end or the marriage should, yes? I understand this wouldn't be instantaneous, but it also shouldn't drag on into years or decades of the SAHP failing to meet their obligations. The issue here is that you insist he should continue to pay her bills after the marriage has ended while she has…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 11:33 PM
3

No, this is a misuse of the word. 'Entitlement' means that the person believes that the people they find attractive must be attracted to them in return and that something unfair has occurred if that doesn't happen. It's perfectly possible to believe that it's unlikely that someone gorgeous will fall for you, and to consider that perfectly reasonable, but still hold out for that rather than settling.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 05:29 PM
–

My kid learned the word 'theology' the other day but he def. means 'theory.' I had a laugh and then taught him the difference. 😄
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 05:21 PM
–

I don't read a lot of romance or romantasy so I don't have specific recommendations, but I will say I know those communities have robust subreddits here. I bet this is a commonly asked question and there are lists of different dynamics over there. Tangential anecdote: I browsed the fiction stacks at my local library last week because my holds weren't in yet and I was desperate for something to tide me over. Obviously it's not a representative sample but I was surprised that about 3/4 of the roma…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 05:18 PM
–

That too, but the kink community has been criticizing them for their content for as long as they've been out.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 05:12 PM
1

Hmm. Maybe we should ask some people from developing nations to weigh in on this instead of deciding for them.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 04:07 PM
1

they divorce and she is still rewarded We are still talking about alimony here, correct? If they divorce soon after she fails out as a homemaker, it would be exceedingly uncommon for her to be awarded much alimony, if any. 'I was a stay-at-home mother for 9 months your honor, my ability to get a job is seriously reduced now' is not a compelling argument and I would need to see some evidence of alimony being awarded generously in such cases. Nevertheless, I agree in general that a man should not …
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/26 04:05 PM
3

Kind of, but interconnected social circles work in the same way. It makes sense that the more disconnected dating gets from social networks, the more people get away with callous behavior and the more prevalent it becomes.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/07/26 10:04 PM
2

It's beta bucks with extra steps.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/07/26 12:40 AM
1

Not average-average, but a better average!
/r/PurplePillDebate11/07/26 12:39 AM
1

Ugh. I'm so sorry, that's awful.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/26 09:33 PM
–

Yeah, I'm sure there are a variety of experiences, but I imagine a lot of people experience a shift in mindset from 'I want that Someday but definitely not right now' to 'ohh hey my life is passing if I really want that I need to start getting serious about it soon.' Not necessarily a massive change of course but a gear shift.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/26 09:23 PM
2

It's probably just that the vast majority of people are not that adventurous or have links that tie them down to their current place.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/26 09:18 PM
0

I guess if you want to call skepticism outrage. Good luck with all that.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/26 09:14 PM
12

I guess it's just interesting to be okay with the sexual marketplace having losers as long as it's somebody else.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/26 06:37 PM
19

I think an individual man thinking about how to get his individual needs met is unlikely to do this kind of reflection, but OP posited this as a beneficial systemic approach that everyone should agree with. I wondered why he didn't include average developing country men in 'everyone.'
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/26 06:34 PM
1

most people's idea of a "single father" is not a father who sees his kids every other weekend and pays support to the other parent, most people would describe that as a "single mother family" What? I don't think I've ever heard the phrase "single mother family" and would have no idea how to parse it. My idea of a single father is a guy who is not married now but has kids he lives with some of the time -- the male version of a single mother in my mind. I have learned from discussions here though …
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/26 06:29 PM
49

What are the average men in other cultures supposed to do? Doesn't this merely shift around exactly which men are outcompeted in the global relationship market, not actually increase the total overall number of men in relationships? Why does the loneliness and unhappiness of average men with the means to travel outweigh the loneliness and unhappiness of poorer local men in these places?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/26 05:59 PM
9

I mean, this is 100% semantics, right? I don't think "sexual peak" has a formal scientific definition so it really depends on what each person is prioritizing. From what I can tell OP is talking about people who define sexual peak to be the high water mark for sexual enthusiasm, frequency, and experimentalness. That does not seem to correspond very well to the peak of fertility as defined by the biologically ideal moment to conceive and deliver a healthy baby.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/26 05:51 PM
2

So if she does sit on her ass all day, she gets nothing, right? No dinner this week, no money in the account this week? Not this directly, but if the breadwinner is unsatisfied with the dynamic, they should insist that the dynamic change (i.e. she starts working again) or divorce if they can't agree about how to structure their household. Obviously I think spouses should be good partners to each other and support each other through difficulties, but not to the point of helplessly enduring bad si…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/26 03:49 PM
4

Oh, I was making a joke about how similar angst about a crisis of masculinity contributed to Teddy Roosevelt's ideas about male 'ruggedness' needing to be honed and tested in the crucible of wilderness and combat, and helped to escalate the Spanish-American War.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/26 03:16 PM
3

Do they want another Spanish-American War? This is how you get a Spanish-American War‽
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/26 03:12 PM
–

Real average women are better than scary composite women on the internet.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/26 02:59 PM
1

Hm, that could be. That's actually interesting now that you mention it because I have marital counseling and individual therapy in completely different slots in my head and would never think of conflating them.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/26 02:58 PM
3

Yeah if we could make society prioritize humans instead of money that would be amazing.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/26 02:53 PM
2

Where's his protection against her simply divorcing him and taking the money? I need you to rephrase this or elaborate because I'm not understanding the question. The money is hers, right? So there isn't supposed to be a protection against that. The longer the SAHP setup lasts the larger the total sum of money would be, so it scales directly in relation to services rendered. Will she be compensating him? No. They (jointly, we hope) decided that their household would run on one income. That incom…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/26 02:51 PM
2

Oh yeah. I could never.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/26 02:13 PM
3

Yeah. I think this is a really thorny issue to be honest. Wanting kids is a really deeply held value (as is not wanting them) which means people will take on a lot of risk to fulfill it. I also don't really want to live in a world where children are rare and mainly luxuries for the wealthy. I don't really disagree with you, I just think that this ends up being a real problem for society as we move farther away from the family as economic unit. I have no idea how to fix that though.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/26 02:11 PM
2

I think you can make the same argument as OP if you substitute 'prospects for future earnings potential' in for 'professional ambitions.' Not everybody is excited or ambitious about a career, but everybody cares about their present and future financial security, which means caring about either their present wealth or their future earnings potential.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/26 01:59 PM
3

Most households really just cannot afford a SAHP dynamic. They trick themselves into thinking they can by assuming unreal levels of risk.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/26 01:43 PM
3

Moreover, his obligations continue after the divorce but hers cease. Is she going to keep cooking his dinner and doing his laundry while he's paying alimony? The most 'accurate' system would be for him to be required to meet these obligations at the time of services rendered, by putting the appropriate percentage of his paycheck into an untouchable account of some type and it being paid out in a lump sum in the event of a divorce. Not doing it this way is effectively financing the financial side…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/26 01:39 PM
2

This is a decent point. "Traditional cultures" may not be structured around gender equality or flexibility of roles, but they have generally also been aware of the risks of imbalanced dynamics and often attempted to mitigate them in some way.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/26 01:31 PM
5

I actually tend to agree that providing for the SAHP's future security should be thought of as part of the price of doing business if a couple decides to go this route. The problem of course is that a great many people simply don't have the income to do this, and in some cases one parent staying home is still the 'best' financial prospect due to childcare costs. Hell, an unfortunately large number of working people haven't provided adequately for their own future security. I agree with all of th…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/26 01:28 PM
5

This seems like a pretty reasonable take for those who want that SAHP/breadwinner dynamic. I just had one comment about this bit: they could end up with someone who is just trying to get their money. While this is true, it seems to me that from the perspective of a prospective conniving partner trying to get their money, the most effective way to do that would be to get and then stay married. The potential 'payout' for this person's spouse is always going to be more than for their divorced ex. I…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/26 01:24 PM
2

Failing to live up to one's own higher principles is a universal human problem, which does include feminists.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/26 12:46 PM
1

Come on. No doubt some men do think this way (or have unexamined beliefs that end up in similar places), but this is massively exaggerated both in terms of scale and in terms of how it characterizes men as unfeeling utilitarians who dislike women. There's no need to do this shit. We can challenge reprehensible ideas without denouncing an entire gender.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/07/26 02:13 AM
–

Fun fact: this is called syntribation and apparently some men can do it too (though it seems to be much more common in women).
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/26 10:46 PM
1

....I can't decide if this sounds like an Avengers Marvel spoof, or like they are avenging someone's previous traumatic anal experience.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/26 10:19 PM
3

I hardcore agree with this take. People like fancy parties and dressing up. It would be great if we could enjoy that without needing to justify it via a life event that isn't a good fit for everyone.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/26 10:01 PM
5

Yeah, the substance of those vows is, 'fate is going to throw some wild curve balls our way, but we intend to face all that as a team and figure it out together.' I'm not one to sit here litigating other people's commitments, but I think in principle the marriage lasts as long as the teamwork lasts. If the people stop working as a unit and turn into antagonists instead of teammates, the marriage is effectively over whether they keep it intact on paper or not.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/26 09:54 PM
2

I tried to cover a broad smattering of things people like or enjoy doing to try to forestall complaints that whatever example I picked was a bad analogue to sex, that's all. It's a common phenomenon and I don't think limited to any particular type of activity. Anyway, maybe this is just going to have to get filed under 'different people have different experiences.' I don't think this is very unusual, but perhaps I'm off base on that. I'm curious now!
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/26 09:31 PM
1

Yeah, I was going to say, I don't know about podcasts, but there are definitely short-form content creators doing healthy relationship advice, healing your dysfunctional behaviors advice, keeping the sex alive in your marriage advice, and so on. Hell, you can get 'how to have Christ-centered husband-led home' content or 'how to decolonize your polyamory practices' content -- whatever you're into, really.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/26 09:15 PM
1

[ Removed by Reddit ]
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/26 09:11 PM
5

That's kind of fair honestly, although it makes sense from a pragmatic perspective. It's kind of like how we all bitch about capitalism but most of us won't quit our jobs to go live in a communal living group either. People want society to change but are reluctant to take on personal risk.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/26 09:02 PM
2

A lot of men already do think that therapy is basically a “grift” since it is feminist-centric. I find this point of view befuddling since psychiatry as a discipline, like most of medicine, has been mainly developed by men until relatively recently. And in particular a sizable portion of its focus has been understanding and treating veterans with PTSD, who were mainly men. I can understand why men might find the prevalence of female therapists off-putting, or might think that talk therapy wouldn…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/26 08:58 PM
2

I think this is an interesting subject and one that's worth exploring, but right away I have an issue with the blue pill = progressive viewpoint. To be clear this isn't something you are unique in saying. It's a common equivalence that muddies a lot of conversations here. It's probably fair to say that most people with progressive leanings fall under the blue pill umbrella, but the blue pill is a lot more than that. Blue pill advice for men is also things like whatever is taught about consent in…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/26 08:43 PM
2

No? I think that happens all the time. You don't know of anyone who used to paint, but doesn't do it anymore? Or someone who used to like going to midnight film releases but stopped doing that? Anyone who doesn't do drugs anymore for mundane reasons like "I dunno it's just not as much fun as it used to be." Anyone who went to enough concerts or conventions that now they're over it? Anyone who shares photos of the outfit they picked for a special occasion 10+ years ago and laughs how they have no…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/26 05:27 AM
1

Yeah, I think I responded to that word in particular because it frames changes in taste in a particular way. A change that happens abruptly probably has a specific reason, like an inciting incident or something. But a lot of changes in tastes happen more gradually and often for much vaguer reasons. Losing interest in something doesn't always look like intense dislike, sometimes it's just no longer fun or engaging. And it doesn't necessarily happen overnight, but might just happen less frequently…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/26 01:44 AM
2

It matters in as much as it was the thing I originally brought up?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/26 12:37 AM
2

Sure, but was the change of opinion sudden?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/26 12:32 AM
1

Sure, but we're talking about kids who have a mother that wants to parent them.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/26 12:23 AM
5

But you're proposing they be raised by none.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 10:40 PM
1

So the only way to split 50/50 is by proving the father a bad parent?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 10:39 PM
3

Why should the default be one parent having primary custody instead of joint custody? I'm also skeptical how often this default would play out -- would we not expect mothers to petition for joint or primary custody themselves, in most cases?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 10:25 PM
1

imbecile they not thinking about a mans damn pebbles. Here you go! I had to go c/p it.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 09:42 PM
3

but all of a sudden I mean. How sudden is it, really? I always got the impression we were talking more about something someone used to do 'back in college' or 'tried it with their boyfriend in Cabo once' or whatever, not something they were into last week and now won't consider.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 09:34 PM
–

What are you talking about. People are arguing with OP's premise, not trying to convince anyone to get married without a prenup. Y'all probably should get prenups.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 07:36 PM
–

The only reason i can think of as to why i would be offended at the idea of prenup is... Ultimately this is the disconnect. It sounds as though you believe everyone who gets offended at the idea of a prenup is basing their feeling in a logical analysis, but there is good reason to believe that's not the case.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 07:33 PM
–

marriage is the way that couples can declare themselves members of the same family. This is actually the best succinct explanation for why marriage is relevant that I've ever seen. Props.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 07:09 PM
1

It sounds like you're consistent and egalitarian in your principles so I have no quarrel with that. Can I ask you a follow-up question though? (Disregard please if no.) How does this perspective on singularity and intimacy jive with a potential remarriage in the distant future? Suppose that you married and had a long and happy relationship, but your spouse died while you were in your late 40s. Would you avoid remarrying for this reason, because having that intimacy with a second person would fee…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 06:44 PM
2

I get the impulse, but it breaks down in practical terms really fast. Even with complete information (i.e. from the internal perspective of the woman in this scenario) creating an ordered list about something as subjective as 'how awesome the sex was' is often difficult to do. I highly recommend a likert-style scale instead. Instead of trying to collate data about however many past lovers there were and order them, instead measure your (and your partner's, if you want to get real team-oriented!)…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 06:36 PM
1

I get that part, but I can't imagine this was the only situation where you discovered your working definition of a word needed refinement.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 06:28 PM
–

I find that this has gotten much worse as both sides avoid the "what are we" conversation. Because they don't want to look uncool or they're scared of confrontation. Yeah, I agree with this. Especially for young people who aren't necessarily looking for serious commitment anytime soon, being too clear about intentions or desires comes off as 'too serious' in a way that's really unfortunate.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 03:05 PM
1

I don't understand your position because individuals (even leaving aside genders for the moment) aren't all the same. Variation is intrinsic to the human population so clearly equality cannot be the same as sameness.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 12:56 AM
2

I think you have to throw smartphones in here too. Having the complete internet including videos in a personal pocket device is a game changer.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 12:43 AM
5

I have to say, detailed analysis of the thematic elements of A Bug's Life was not on my PPD bingo card for today but I'm delighted.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/26 12:38 AM
3

I think it's unlikely, as the vast majority of people of all genders prefer their agency in dating.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 10:50 PM
1

Yeah, I think it's important to talk about these types of issues both from an individual agency perspective and a societal dynamic perspective. Ideally both pieces need to shift to see the best results (though individuals can always shift faster than societies).
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 10:36 PM
1

not date women who do want marriage, assume all the benefits these women provide and then try to gaslight and manipulate their way out of obligations. Yeah, that's shitty behavior and not what I was talking about.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 10:33 PM
–

Old men have plenty of kids and trauma.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 10:28 PM
–

Utterly pedantic side tangent: the phrase "young girls" is quite confusing. Taken literally, it means 'all the girls -- but just the younger ones.' So you would think it meant, like, 0-17-year old female children, but the bottom half maybe? Girls of 0-9? But in practical usage, most of the time, people really are referring to girls from 8ish through 17. It's as if somehow 'young women' got smashed together with 'girls' (to reiterate their status as children) into this odd inverse of what it soun…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 10:21 PM
–

Right. We have laws for the explicit reason that a certain proportion of people would engage in a behavior without a more compelling reason not to.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 10:15 PM
2

Sure. But can your point of view win enough general consensus to become reality?
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 10:06 PM
2

What do you mean by this?
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 09:52 PM
1

I don't agree that marriage itself is designed as a failsafe for an untrusting relationship. Others have delved into why so I don't think I need to reiterate that here. The other comment I have is that hypocrisy isn't very relevant to this debate because most of the time people who have a distaste for prenups aren't coming at that from a reasoned position of 'prenups are a bad idea and here's why.' Pushback against them tends to be more about feelings and beliefs that only people who are unserio…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 08:45 PM
1

Eh, women also want those things without actually wanting marriage. I don't see this as hypocritical. Wanting some items and not others is fine as long as it's clearly communicated and everyone involved comes to an agreement.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 08:38 PM
1

Yep. And sometimes that's fine -- but you should read it and see.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 08:37 PM
1

This is a very valid point. My upbringing definitely painted prenups as a modernity reflective of our current culture's unserious attitude towards marriage. I don't agree with that take intellectually anymore, but I think the traditionalism vs. progressive tension here deserves more attention than it usually gets.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 08:34 PM
0

Legitimately, I hope you have the best time.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 08:29 PM
2

It's fair to say that most of the institutional parts of the institution of marriage were developed during the period when 99.9% of marriages ended with a death.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 08:22 PM
–

It stands to reason that someone who isn't mega hot is going to have middling or worse success regardless of the method. The point here isn't to turn some mid dude into Chad, but to determine whether he does marginally better in person or in pics, and then lean into that.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 08:12 PM
1

I see you don't have a flair: please make it "imbecile they <whatever whatever> pebbles" I am begging you.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 08:05 PM
3

There's nothing ethically objectionable to this as far as I can see. My concerns have to do with mental health and life satisfaction. Generally speaking I think people are the happiest and healthiest when they have diversified goals and can be flexible in how they meet them.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 08:01 PM
6

Nah man, it's because the vast majority of people think ignoring free will and having people paired up by AI sounds abhorrent.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 07:58 PM
3

I think the individual case relates to the societal one, but yes, I follow you. Men won't tolerate a society where, at scale, women are fucking guys they had way more desire for (however long it took for that lust to be generated) when the women are young, leaving all sorts of average men out of the game then. But later 'settling' for guys they do not feel as much desire for when the women get older. I don't think we can even present conclusions about how common this is.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 07:51 PM
3

You bring up an interesting point, which is -- I think sometimes we overlook that all this cultural advice about looks not mattering is not necessarily being aimed at less-attractive people to fluff them up and make them feel good about themselves. A great deal of that advice is intended to remind people to not overemphasize looks when searching for a partner. Because we (society) know that people are attracted to attractive people. And it is wise to look deeper when trying to pair up long-term,…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 07:45 PM
1

I have to say, 'men are deluded because of porn!' sounds like the most ridiculous premise. Like way to give men absolutely no credit for understanding fantasy and make-believe and that this product exists and is curated to fill a market-driven need. However... I have been part of some exchanges here in which men explicitly said their expectations for what genuine female sexual desire looks like is: porn. I am reluctantly coming to the conclusion that there are some men (I trust not most of them)…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 07:40 PM
11

Super relevant point. Men want women to understand their own desire and share that information, but women are supposed to possess this knowledge intrinsically without acting on their desire or experimenting with it to learn its shape and details. As I get told anytime I grump about being bad at something I don't practice enough: "No practice! Only good!"
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 06:54 PM
5

In particular, men don't want the women they pair with to have actually slept with men who generated fast desire for her, and for whom desire levels were way higher. See, this is itself nearly a reasonable thing to want. It allows for the fact that different women have different speeds for reaching 'I'd like to fuck' stage. It tries to preclude women pairing up with him who feel lukewarm attraction, which is also reasonable. The main place it falls down is that it doesn't account for women who m…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 06:50 PM
1

I think he's attractive. He's got a guy nextdoor vibe rather than an edgy one, but it suits him.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 06:11 PM
2

I agree with EugeneCezanne on this. There are people who have the unfortunateness to combine enough broadly-unattractive traits that there will be a general consensus that they are unattractive. But most people fall into the wide middle standard deviation and in that space having different taste in which exact men are of interest to you is a good thing, because it means you're not in direct competition with your friends for the same guy.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 06:08 PM
3

To be fair, when women get together and compare crushes, there is also a fair bit of "him? Really?" that goes down. Attractiveness is weirdly both very basic/generalizable (in that there are traits and attributes that tend to show up over and over again) and very idiosyncratic. This gets more obvious when you are looking at people's crushes out of the normal average swathes of the population, but you can sometimes see it in celebrity crushes too. My theory is that the idiosyncratic parts relate …
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 06:03 PM
3

Plenty of people aren’t attractive but still get picked for some reason or another. Well, and -- there are degrees to this too, right? 'He's cute, and I really like him the more I get to know him' is a super normal level of attraction that can lead to a happy relationship, but it falls short of the 'he's so gorgeous I'm overcome by unbridled lust!' level of attraction that a lot of men here indicate they're holding out for.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 05:54 PM
0

Which is kind of wild considering the whole red pill metaphor is 'you're not gonna like the truth but here it is.'
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 05:49 PM
1

Nobody is more gullible than someone who wants to believe, it's true.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 01:55 PM
–

Sure, though at some point we have to start really getting detailed and considering how we define makeup exactly. Cosmetics have existed in Europe and European-colonized locales since the Middle Ages at least, in addition to other places that I'm less personally familiar with. But obviously 14th C Italian cosmetics are pretty different from 21st C. cosmetics, and tended to be used more occasionally and in certain social classes and roles for the most part. There is solid analysis to be done abou…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 01:54 PM
–

Right, I have to qualify because I myself usually don't, and neither did my mother. But that's different from it being a cultural norm, which I think is what they were driving at.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 01:49 PM
–

Nobody here had a grandma who didn't wear makeup. Or at least, nobody here had a grandma who lived in an era where it was unusual for women to wear makeup. Ymmv, of course I don't know your actual grandmas.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 01:06 AM
3

I know that 'whore' there is a typo, but friend, I laughed out loud and startled my kid. 😆
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/26 12:43 AM
2

We're talking about all of it, aren't we? Elder care is just as normal as childcare (and increasingly more relevant as my peers and I get older).
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 09:12 PM
–

Even so, on average it seems to be the case that they dislike her makeup less than they dislike her unmade-up face.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 09:10 PM
–

I feel like it would be illuminating for men to spend a lot of time around women who don't wear makeup.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 09:08 PM
–

Lol, take my damn upvote. Your Sistine Chapel eyebrows sent me.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 09:02 PM
–

I think most men are ambivalent-to-dislike noticeable makeup styles, with some exceptions (like you said, e-girl makeup, some love a vintage glam look, etc.) I think the 'generic' male perspective on female beauty is: natural blemish-free stunning beauty with a clean face > subtle natural-looking makeup > visible makeup in a style that they appreciate, but still light on the skin > anything with visible foundation/powder.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 09:00 PM
–

Yes, thank you. To be fair I think a large part of this comes from actual ignorance (the difference between a gymbro and a bodybuilder may not be obvious to someone who isn't that interested in lifting, in the same way that the difference between a clean face and a natural makeup look may not be obvious to someone who doesn't apply makeup).
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 08:51 PM
2

Tbf, this is fairly true, because 'unpaid domestic labor' covers a lot of ground. It includes both simple physical tasks like cleaning a mirror and complex emotional labor like caring for elderly parents at their end of life. So you kind of have to identify scope to make sure you're comparing like with like.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 08:43 PM
2

Yeah, I don't see why anyone would find that a bad thing. It's an awkward imperfect tool.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 08:22 PM
5

Mercifully my human adult coworkers never scream at me, nor do they wail in misery when their desires are thwarted, nor do they throw up on the floor and saunter away unconcerned. (I started this comment thinking of toddlers and ended it thinking of cats, but honestly I think it works either way.)
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 08:15 PM
2

This is well said, and regarding point 3, I feel it's worth noting that when you've been doing A Thing all day, sometimes you just want an opportunity to do A Different Thing. Even if both things are labor of some sort, changing tasks can be mentally refreshing. This comes up in the context of SAHPs all the time, where the working parent comes through the door and the SAHP wants them to take over child wrangling immediately. I think that comes not from a sense that the working parent hasn't been…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 08:12 PM
6

Eh, these kinds of arguments are irritating because they're impossible to prove in the specifics, but there's no compelling reason to believe spending some time researching before making a purchasing decision isn't a good use of time and labor. Sometimes when you make a hasty decision you end up having to replace a poor-quality item in short order, or accidentally buy the wrong version of the thing (see my spouse's most recent charging cable purchase -- oops). Presumably there are diminishing re…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 08:07 PM
5

That's a full-on hobby, that is.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 07:57 PM
3

It's weird to say that unpaid domestic labor doesn't exist. Obviously it exists (I did some a few minutes ago). You're trying to make an argument about unpaid domestic labor imbalances within households, which is fine, but it would have been a stronger premise if you'd phrased it differently. I also don't agree that domestic labor is irrelevant, although I think the evidence suggests we are moving closer to parity on that front compared to twenty, forty, or sixty years ago. The important part of…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 07:44 PM
7

Sure, except a.) this dynamic can also take place in a cohabitation situation where finances are practically and legally separate, and more importantly, b.) 'unpaid domestic labor' is the phrase used not to emphasize the financial status of the person doing the labor, but to differentiate it from paid domestic labor of various kinds.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 07:32 PM
1

I suppose it would depend on why we didn't match on the dating app. But in general, I tend to think that dating apps involve a lot of guesswork hoping to up the odds of an in-person meeting going well. If the in-person meeting already happened and went well, in most cases the dating app miss is irrelevant.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 07:27 PM
1

Thanks for sharing this, I'll try to come back later on a real machine and read it.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 02:21 PM
3

What? I have no idea what this social media challenge is, and your post did not make it clear. Social media challenge + custody = suss AF though.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 01:39 AM
2

The other commenter did a better job than I did of articulating what I disagreed with in what you wrote. Kudos to them. I think financial fraud is a useful place to refer to when writing this kind of law, but it's worth noting that fraud in a situation of fiduciary responsibility might end up being different than how fraud is defined in a family law setting. To be clear, we're (most of us) talking out our ass a bit since we're generally not lawyers.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/26 01:01 AM
4

I'm not talking about orgies. Did you think I meant someone literally having sex with more than one person at the same time? I'm talking about someone who is having sex with multiple people over the course of the relevant timespan during which conception would have occurred. ETA: I am also assuming for the sake of logistics that one of those people is the presumptive biodad.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 11:17 PM
2

Yeah, I'm not talking about me, I'm talking about the population at large. OP was saying women have it easy, but this plan of yours sounds fairly difficult.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 11:16 PM
2

It's starting to not sound that easy.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 11:06 PM
4

People who are having sex with more than one person at the same time still get pregnant accidentally, and they don't necessarily know who the father is. Though they may believe they know, or have a strong suspicion. (And they may be incorrect.) I think disclosing the possibility of paternal question is the right thing to do, but I'm not sure failing to do that equals intent to defraud. If it did, for one thing, the crime should stand even if it later turned out to be the case that the bio dad wa…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 11:03 PM
3

I mean it's an MBA but go on. But yeah, not everyone is suited to work in medicine.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 10:53 PM
2

if you are willing to go through it, you absolutely have an intent Hold up, you lost me. People get pregnant through carelessness or negligence all the time. And many people don't consider aborting an accidental pregnancy for a variety of reasons. How are you considering those cases intentional?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 10:45 PM
–

Sure but I don't have statistics to hand, and I don't want to argue with that guy about the statistics, and it isn't necessary to my argument anyway. Feel free, I just don't have the heart to dig into that today.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 10:41 PM
2

So... no women meet the expectations that have been devised by examining a make-believe fantasy performance for the camera? Shocking.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 10:39 PM
6

Wouldn't intent to deceive be proven by the very fact that the individual knew multiple people could be the father but willingly hid that information from the person they claimed to be the father? Not exactly. Clearly they intended to deceive their partner about having other sex partners, but I can pretty easily see someone being like, 'oh shit, maybe I got pregnant when I had that affair sex,' and stressing that they were gonna get caught, but then the baby is born and it kinda looks like the p…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 09:59 PM
2

Agreed -- I would think that these two tiers of malfeasance would need to be specified and addressed with different severity.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 09:44 PM
7

Good point. What sorts of penalties are typical for other types of perjury?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 09:40 PM
3

I have a master's degree and I don't make anywhere near that kind of money.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 09:27 PM
–

Attention, the gender wars have been deferred until after the billionaire takedown has been completed. Please reconvene at that time.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 09:25 PM
2

I guess? It seems unnecessary though.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 05:22 PM
6

I don't think you needed to make up a fallacy to describe making assumptions about other people.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 04:21 PM
-1

See, we'd have to get into the weeds arguing about each of these specific items which I don't have a desire to do today. They are each worthy of a closer look in their own threads (and tbh have been debated specifically many times). Suffice it to say, I don't fully agree with your position on each of these points, and that explains the disparity in our positions there.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 04:10 PM
1

Nah, it's pretty straightforward. Doing stuff because you decided to is great. Doing stuff because society tells you you are supposed to because woman is bad. Go forth and live life.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 04:06 PM
3

Yeah, comparing homelessness to period pain doesn't make any sense. I believe the commenter upthread mentioned women's health as a large area that OP omitted to mention, but I'm not them so that's just my take. Completely agree that homelessness is significant and warrants societal effort.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 04:03 PM
-1

So far I've seen and agreed to some cases where women get a small unfair advantage. So I have to say I think your thesis here is also exaggerated.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 03:59 PM
2

Seems legit.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 03:27 PM
1

Oof. That is a really heavy set of feelings. I appreciate you typing it all out. I can see why that might be a difficult thing to share with a woman (and probably an uncomfortable thing for a woman to hear). For what it's worth I think we (meaning, you know, people) do need safe places to share complicated, unvarnished, hard emotions. We need relationships where it's safe to do that. It's hard to make space for that though.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 03:26 PM
-1

I don't expect that, and I didn't say so. I said that OP's belief is exaggerated and unfounded.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 03:21 PM
2

You must hang out with the 1%!
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 03:15 PM
2

Hahaha, citation needed!!
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 03:14 PM
3

.....you are aware that mothers are feminists, SAHMs are feminists, lots of feminists cook, clean, and have sex, right?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 03:07 PM
3

I am serious. I'm also not making the reverse comparison you made above. They are indeed completely different issues. I agree that the majority of women do not experience rape -- the reason it is treated as a more pervasive issue is because it is distributed throughout all ages, social groups, economic groups, and so on, so the concern about being raped does impact all people. In contrast, homelessness is of concern to a smaller group of people who find themselves in real risk of it, while a lot…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 03:01 PM
0

Right, I am not going to pick apart each of these findings (though I think some of them are a little less straightforward than you presented them). Someone else might have the energy for that but it's not what I'm interested in here. However -- the advantages you are describing aren't at all the same as women exerting little or no effort, right? It would look more like: a boy and a girl both work hard writing an essay of the same caliber, and he is scored at 92% while hers is scored at 95%. If t…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 02:54 PM
1

In some sense because people don't a give a shit about men. We're disposable. Well, I don't believe this, and I don't treat the men in my life this way. Is this really how everyone you know treats you? Do you treat other men in your life this way also? we live in an oppressive patriarchy where men have had it too good for too long, and all efforts must be concentrated on women. Sure, but this doesn't mean people should treat men like shit. Especially in personal relationships. Again, I believe p…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 02:39 PM
7

Nah, not to downplay homelessness by any means, but it's just facts to say that homelessness is a thing that affects a relatively small percentage of people. It's important, but not a common factor to male life in the way menstruation is a common factor to female-bodied life. The comparison is off. Honestly this is an issue with several of the statistical points OP made -- these are issues that disproportionally affect men (and that matters), but they aren't common issues that are a part of most…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 02:31 PM
16

So, the specific claim you are making is about ease -- which I am going to consider to be the ability to expend minimal or no effort and receive acceptable or positive outcomes. However, I noticed that for most of the examples you point out, you are comparing outcomes without any real evaluation of the effort expended. School/uni -- is it your observation that women obtain success here (good grades, good placements, admission to competitive programs, degrees) with low effort, or dramatically les…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 02:21 PM
1

to allow someone to live in a comfortable world of assurance that I don't ever remotely get to live in myself. Maybe this is the crux of the issue -- can we dig into this belief some? It seems that although the world can be a tough, uncaring place, close personal relationships are meant to provide a buffer and respite from that harshness. Why can't you live in a world where your partner (and other people who are close to you and care about you) treat you with care and reassurance?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 02:05 PM
5

Unfortunately, the internet democratized therapy jargon, so everyone can now use it and misuse it. The presence of that vocabulary is no guarantee that the person using it actually understands the concepts, much less has developed the corresponding skills and is able to use them.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 02:00 PM
3

Ah, but this time they baited the hook with an actual worm!
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 01:55 PM
5

So true. We are so poorly equipped to coexist with existential horror and our attempts are feeble.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 01:54 PM
1

.....tapestry hoes?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 01:52 PM
2

Do you do cinnamon rolls?!
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 01:45 PM
1

I think it's pretty easy to identify why women might like to have their father walk them down the aisle despite its vestigial symbolism of property transfer. Equivalizing these different manifestations of sexual control over young women doesn't make a lot of sense.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 01:27 PM
2

Excuse me, TIL that Tobey Maguire is 51, I need to walk into the sea.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 01:20 PM
3

I legit love that your boundary on this is 'be respectful and tip them.'
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 01:15 PM
1

I have a theory it might also have been more common in a particular place and time.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 01:13 PM
1

In addition to what others have said, I wanted to chime in that this expectation isn't completely gendered -- my partner and I both have an agreement that we will give kind but honest assessments if we ask each other sartorial questions like this. It sounds like you need a partner who values accuracy as much as you do (or at least more than your ex did) -- that's something you can take into your next relationship decision.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/26 01:04 PM
4

I think it depends, because people who are drawn to TRP come to it with different foci and perspectives. I think there is a contingent that appreciates a set of clear directives to follow, with relatively immediate results, as you say. I also think there is a contingent whose main draw is that TRP ideas, and the adjacent ideas in related spaces, validate their own beliefs about dating and their feelings of having been screwed over in some way. There are a lot of people with a lot of resentment, …
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/26 07:28 PM
1

Although I think that probably you can get away with having no backbone if you are the right combination of hot enough and/or fun enough to be around -- I kind of feel like we downplay the role of luck in general in people getting together. Obviously all these factors matter but sometimes I think the dumb luck of being in the right place at the right time tips it over the edge, kwim?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/26 05:55 PM
1

Completely true. Being good often requires courage which people sans backbone mostly lack.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/26 05:52 PM
0

This is fair. I think the apps suck but building a real-life social network is not a quick or easy fix either.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/26 05:50 PM
–

Kind of, but the way you frame this is misleading. "Weak and shy guys" display clear behavioral characteristics that are less appealing to date, on average, than the 'strong and confident' guys that would be their characteristics inverse. If you present as your premise 'women like to date strong and confident guys more than weak and shy guys' I think all else being equal you'd have few dissenters. "Violent misogynists," are a different axis of behaviors (and incidentally not diametrically oppose…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/26 05:46 PM
–

I'm actually open in theory to government-organized initiatives to address male loneliness. I'd love to hear what actual ideas people have for what that could look like, though. My suspicion is that a metric ton of good would be done on that front by ameliorating poverty and improving mental health for all populations but particularly those in below-mean income households.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/07/26 10:11 PM
3

Aw, damn. I can't pass up any opportunity for a spreadsheet. I hear your perspective, but this actually does seem more difficult in practice, even if both people are acting with the best intentions. Opening up to someone is a process with steps, and increases in trust at each stage when disclosures are handled sensitively.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/07/26 10:00 PM
4

Genuine question: although most people don't need an actual spreadsheet to navigate appropriateness of sensitive topics based on intimacy level of the audience, such a thing could probably be developed. My question is: would a tool like that be actually useful to people who find it difficult to determine how to open up in socially acceptable ways? Would they use it to guide their behavior?
/r/PurplePillDebate02/07/26 08:47 PM
–

Bisexual people aren't open to being cheated on; in addition to being wrong this is a wildly biphobic comment to make. You're off-base by thinking that the only way to be comfortable in a relationship is to be emotionally detached. But I agree slightly in that the risk of being cheated on exists anytime one is in a relationship, and if you are preoccupied by the possibility and terrified of it, you're likely going to find yourself doing messed-up, controlling things to try to protect yourself fr…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/07/26 07:30 PM
–

This doesn't really seem arguable -- it makes sense that these self-reinforce in a vicious spiral. I'm interested in examining the roots of those responses, in order to try to identify places where that cycle can be broken (or intercepted before it gets started). In my opinion that looks like people developing more resilience and the ability to respond to setbacks and disappointments with equanimity. How do we help young people to develop these skills?
/r/PurplePillDebate02/07/26 07:21 PM
–

Right?! I watched the really unfortunate Hugh Jackman Les Mis, I can do this. 😆
/r/PurplePillDebate01/07/26 08:58 PM
2

I don't really have a disagreement with your premise in principle --- I would agree that a particular set of standards might not be meaningfully related to relationship success. I sort of fundamentally don't understand what there is to debate here, though. Everyone's standards are individual (and often rather idiosyncratic). It feels like we are trying to make a case for a broad assessment (X people have standards that are too high, or poorly related to happiness, or whatever), but I don't see h…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/07/26 07:12 PM
–

I haven't made myself sit down and watch the films yet because I really like the stage show and am afraid I won't be able to get over it being its own thing. I really need to do that one of these days.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/07/26 06:57 PM
–

Man, I can't say enough good things about this Little Women. It's so thoughtfully structured and beautifully filmed.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/07/26 06:51 PM
3

Hugo Weaving is a godsdamned delight.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/07/26 03:44 AM
3

Oh, I think childcare expectations are wildly different from the 1960s! In a combination of ways, some of which I agree with, and others that I definitely don't. That's a fascinating and complicated topic because it's not just parents deciding to do more or differently, there have been serious societal shifts in thought about this (and structural changes too). I totally thought you were going to talk about home cleaning standards though, which is a different (though also interesting) conversatio…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 07:02 PM
1

Fwiw this type of content is out there. I've mostly left IG these days so I can't remember names, but there were at least a couple dudes I was following who were focusing on body positivity and ED recovery from a male POV.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 06:45 PM
2

I'm not terribly optimistic that online dating can be 'fixed' or improved in a way that will bypass its most obvious, pernicious drawbacks. But since it's not going away, fuck it, might as well tinker with it and try to improve it anyway.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 04:41 PM
1

I feel slandered. 😭
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 02:12 AM
3

At one point around the turn of the 20th century children were running amok in the streets unsupervised so some enterprising do-gooders invented playgrounds to create relatively safe spaces for them to play and hopefully not be squashed by a milkcart. This take is ahistorical in the extreme and one of the obvious tells is how you imagine mothers in the Beforetimes were doing so much intensive hands-on parenting. They were not.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 02:05 AM
1

Yeah, I think that there's potential for relationships to take on a leader/follower dynamic which I actually think is fine if it suits the persons involved and isn't imposed dogmatically from the outside. I suspect a great many relationships actually operate this way the majority of the time due to personality, even if the ultimate Final Word is settled more egalitarianly (or even in a leadership dynamic tilted the other direction). There's some interesting research about followership out there,…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 01:44 AM
3

I feel like 'strawman' is the wrong word for this phenomenon, but that's just a semantic argument and it doesn't change the main thrust of your debate. I have two thoughts about what you describe. First, there's an element of this that tends to fall on anyone (especially anyone young) who expresses clear and specific ideas about what they want their future life to entail. Mainly it comes from older people (not necessarily vastly older -- ten years is plenty). I personally think this is partly we…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/26 01:25 AM
1

I think that mistrust is somewhat understandable, though I wonder how much of it comes from anti-feminist rhetoric rather than from direct engagement with feminist ideas and communities? But either way, skepticism is reasonable in general and I usually don't fault people for it. Human nature is prone to self-serving and all ideologies can be subverted in that direction so it makes sense to pay attention and be watchful. The only other thing I want to mention is that my proposed stance above is a…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 11:30 PM
2

Maybe it's stripping! Honestly I have no idea but I'm now chewing over this like a puzzle. Some area of academia maybe.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 07:53 PM
1

This seems so obvious to me. Like, I think it's a little weird to be worried about, but if it's a big deal to you mention it way ahead of time in the dating process so it's super upfront.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 07:31 PM
0

Mmmph, too much generalizing despite there being a grain of truth. Yes, most women who are upset and hurt by an unexpected demand for a paternity test are not going to go all the way through to a divorce on that basis alone. Divorce is actually a pretty last-ditch contingency most of the time, and that goes doubly for someone pregnant or with a newborn. That doesn't mean, however, that the hurt and breach in the trust relationship isn't grave and significant. It's very unlikely that it would blo…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 07:25 PM
2

I don't necessarily think it would be ethically bankrupt or anything, but there are logistical considerations that make it a less-than-compelling option as a blanket practice.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 07:18 PM
2

Certain things already changed -- that happened in the past. In 2026 you believe certain other things must change. You don't exist in 1950, and your feelings about changes that happened before either of us (I assume?) were born don't impact the present day. From the perspective of the present moment, which is where all of us actually reside, you have the same desire for social change that I do. I don't ask you to argue for feminism as a whole. I'm confused though why you kick the legs out from u…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 07:14 PM
–

The real psyop is men gaslighting themselves into believing fashion is dumb and boring and gay and effeminate.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 06:54 PM
–

Speak for yourself, men in '70s shorts are hot AF. It certainly wasn't my idea to have y'all wearing baggy everything down to the knee all the time. Fashion is complicated and cyclical and people use it to signal a bunch of stuff, including but absolutely not limited to sexual availability/desirability.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 06:47 PM
1

I do love me a good analog pasttime but I also notice that there is a lot of digital content about digital detoxing, which... seems a little sus. 🤨 Meanwhile, sometimes I get to talk to people here about weird topics that don't come up at work.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 06:42 PM
2

Yeah, it'd be unpopular. Quite unfortunate.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 06:30 PM
5

Some feminists do advocate for this already. (I'm one). Some women do pay on dates. It's simply not the case that "no women will choose to pay on a date." There is no actual mechanism for feminism to "deal with this instantly." Feminists who believe in splitting date costs have to convince feminists who don't, the same as anyone else does. There isn't even a feminism High Council or anything that can put out a ruling or recommendation. I understand that date paying is just an example. This is my…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 06:24 PM
0

Eh, I think a segment of female voters would vote in favor of equality. Whether that's enough together with whatever segment of male voters would vote that way, or whether any politician wants to deal with the unpopularity too, is hard to say. This isn't my nation so I don't have enough information to have a more developed opinion on this, though.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 06:15 PM
3

Huh, I did not know that. That actually seems like a policy that should be adjusted, unless I'm lacking important context.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 06:08 PM
3

Again, facing pushback and disagreement isn't really losing, right? It's a basic part of arguing for social change. I disagree with randos calling you 'brokie,' but I can't think of how to argue for social change in a way that will be popular with everyone. If it's an important social change it's worth enduring the discomfort of people disagreeing with you.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 06:07 PM
6

Sure, I understand the practical aspects of trying to thread a needle in this way. I don't actually think launching into a big speech about equality is a sensible idea. I'm honestly pretty sympathetic to men who are trying to balance their beliefs with tactical success pragmatically in this way and making concessions in terms of their actual behavior. The real-world pressures are a bitch and I get that. What makes less sense to me is online rhetoric that is anti-feminist in nature. It makes sens…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 04:30 PM
3

Right. I think my definition is closer to, 'because of feminism X works out better for men' -- a definition that doesn't rely very much on direct control of outcomes. More of a 'things are better in X way' descriptor. I see your understanding though and don't necessarily disagree within that scope.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 03:15 PM
1

Ja, I saw that later. Fair enough I guess.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 03:12 PM
0

I don't think it was, but no point arguing over it.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 03:12 PM
1

Ah, you answered my question elsethread well enough.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 03:11 PM
2

I've never met anyone who loathed Quakers before -- what's that about?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 03:09 PM
2

Huh, I'd agree, that needs to go.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 03:05 PM
19

Your female coworkers get more days off?! How does that (and the retiring earlier) work?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 03:03 PM
3

You seem to be making an argument (correct me if I'm wrong) that the only benefits are protected legal powers. I can sort of see the logic in saying that feminism hasn't granted men as a class any new legal powers (I can't think of any off the top of my head -- maybe things relating to being present at their child's birth, but I'm not sure that's legally protected so much as a cultural norm, and anyway the mother's wishes probably still supercede his there). I think I don't define 'benefits' so …
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 03:00 PM
1

The comment upthread was claiming the premise: in order for old gender norms to be killed, men need to want to do it. Obviously men have free will and can do what they wish. Edit to correct quote-from-memory.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 02:52 PM
8

I don't really agree that "it doesn't matter," but I think you speak cogently about the tension that exists when two different paradigms are both in play. That's definitely real and causes real difficulties. I actually think feminism does talk some about male gender roles being outdated and what it looks like to move on from that. But I think it's fair to say it's not the central focus of feminist dialogue and that more attention is paid to women's roles and experiences. Can I ask -- since the t…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 02:49 PM
1

No, it's absolutely possible to do something for reasons other than liking it. We all do things we don't like all the time. Whether it makes you a hypocrite or not has to do with whether taking the distasteful action compromises your values or not, not with whether you enjoy it.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 01:17 PM
1

That all sounds pretty unlikely. But even if it were true... would it matter in some way? What difference would it make to the 'unselected men,' to know this, or to the 'powerless women' to hear this?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/06/26 01:03 AM
–

You are better off being a bachelor and have ONS or GF’s, unless you just can’t get sex elsewhere. Yeah, I think we all really underplay how much limerance amps up a person's baseline sexual desire. I'm not anti-marriage at all, but I would tend to agree that you have to be interested in that commitment for solid reasons above and beyond regular sex. There is unfortunately no way to guarantee that you will want to keep having sex with someone (or they will want to keep having sex with you) forev…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/26 11:29 PM
–

This. There's a grain of truth in the OP -- I don't think anyone truly believes that being intentionally misleading about what your ideal sex life will look like is fair to your partner or likely to end well. But I think flattening a sexual relationship between two people over a long period of time into a math problem between their two libidos is woefully oversimplified. There are too many factors at play and many of them (the effect of kids, the effect of a decade of age, everyone's health leve…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/26 11:25 PM
1

If you're looking long enough or obviously enough to have lost plausible deniability, yeah, that's a thing to work on.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/26 11:12 PM
8

Women don't know what you're thinking unless you externalize it somehow.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/26 09:32 PM
9

That's what we call an intrusive thought. Which is normal enough, but yeah, your job as a person is to catch yourself doing that and practice doing better.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/26 09:10 PM
4

Sure did. It's a pretty consistent model across any type of transaction. It could also be applied to earning academic credentials, or negotiating salary, or whatever.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/26 06:32 PM
2

It's a rubric; you could probably 'score' each skill from 0-10 and roughly map out any person's social skill level. Of course each individual will be more or less skillful (aka have a higher or lower total score). Different people have different skill levels (and may be good at or struggle with different sections of this chart). Women are not exempt from this, and are not universally socially skilled in all ways.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/26 06:29 PM
8

You're conflating two different things here. It's perfectly possible (savvy, even) to leverage a mechanism that provides a possibility for advantage for yourself, but not love the system. It's even possible to love the advantage you gain while disliking the mechanism. If work for tips, as a server say, and I know I make more money when I smile and act friendly with the customers, it would be foolish of me not to do that, even if I dislike it. It's possible to think that this is a stupid system o…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/26 06:22 PM
3

Same, but I assume that speaks to the kind of friends I have. TBH the women who most enjoyed 50 Shades seem to be exactly the ones who have no real interest or experience with BDSM in real life. Which is fine (and probably best, since as you say it's an awful handbook).
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/26 05:26 PM
2

Bahahaha, I'm glad you worked that out, I would have never.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/26 05:23 PM
1

Nah, they're right. There are also romance genres about pining Edwardian gentlemen. There is a whole subgenre of Amish romance that is FTB light on the sex and features nothing but wholesome farmers who want to marry a good woman and have kids. There are ten thousand Hallmark Christmas romances about women falling for kind-eyed pine tree farmers or brokenhearted bakery owners or whatever. There is 'boy next door' romance. There is 'childhood sweetheart' romance. There is also at least one 'sweet…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/26 05:22 PM
7

"abused by an ancient minotaur" sent me. 💀
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/26 05:05 PM
3

My guy gets compliments from random people (a decent mix of men and women) about his distinctive moustache all the time. When my hair is distinctive we keep a running score when we go about about who collects more comments. I think noticing/commenting on fashion and styling choices is a thing done more by women, but it's definitely some men as well.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/26 01:36 AM
–

I have my own theories about why survey results of high schoolers might work out that way, but it's interesting whether I'm on track of off base.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/26 04:49 PM
–

Interesting, thanks!
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/26 03:53 PM
–

Do we actually have data suggesting that Gen Z men are more interested in marriage and procreation than Gen Z women? I see this conversation conflating dating, sex, marriage, and procreation pretty freely, but these are not at all the same thing even though they relate to one another. I would expect that the number of people interested in dating would be higher than the number interested in marriage, for example.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/26 02:44 PM
3

Low-key jealous of your homebirth! I had one planned with my third but instead got a placental abruption at 36 weeks and an unplanned C-section. Obviously given the circumstances that was all for the best, but it was too damn bad. I'm glad you all got to experience it.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/26 12:56 AM
–

Yes! This is the part that I think gets left out of this conversation. There are presumably people who lie or say what their partner wants to hear, but there are also a whole lot of people who have genuine good intentions but abysmal follow-through. Either way the end result is unsatisfactory division of labor.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/26 10:48 PM
–

I can get behind this, but it doesn't weed out men whose gender politics and expectations are egalitarian and great but who have awful standards for maintaining a home.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/26 10:42 PM
6

It's frightening. In some ways it's a bit of a mindfuck to know that pregnancy and birth is the safest it's ever been in history, and even so it's still quite unpredictable and scary.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/26 10:11 PM
8

Wise words. "Unglamorous and humbling" is dead on. Hang in there; may your labor and birth be calm and easy and your kid healthy and a good sleeper. 🖤
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/26 10:09 PM
5

It's almost as if perhaps there could be a healthy middle road between "being hedonistic and organizing life around my immediate comfort and convenience" and 'sacrificing my physical self, financial security, and personhood.' I think the question of virtue is actually a good one. Sacrificing for duty and to care for others is virtuous, but so is setting healthy boundaries and caring for the self. If increasingly there seems to be no balanced route forward and people feel stuck choosing between t…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/26 10:07 PM
7

You're focusing overly much on the risk of death and not considering all of the other outcomes that a person risks throughout a pregnancy and postpartum. Pregnancy is a really involved process that interconnects with every system in the human body, which means that any individual has no way of knowing which possible outcomes they'll walk away with.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/26 09:52 PM
3

This feels familiar. I think for me the best word for it is 'vocational' -- it felt like something that would be meaningful and challenging and I wanted to be a part of it. I can't explain it any better nor can I explain why people who don't have that urge don't have it. Having kids isn't really a logical decision -- when you break it down pragmatically it mostly doesn't make sense.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/26 09:46 PM
2

Well, we are!
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/26 09:26 PM
1

None idea, but this reminded me of a song lyric. "But a long-legged twenty-something looks as good as ever, And her mother, and her grandma both look better every day."
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/26 06:11 PM
3

Actually we should probably bring dancing back. It's social and active, both things we all could use a lot more of.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/26 07:35 PM
1

when women (quite rightly) complain about men expecting them to do the bulk of the house chores, do you tell them to just 'not date those men'? Honestly, yeah, I would advise people to date people who expect to split house chores equitably and who are competent at domestic work in general. It is a bit more difficult though in the sense that paying for dates happens immediately in a new relationship (you can see if they follow through on what they say) whereas sharing a household takes longer to …
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/26 07:28 PM
5

It's not 1st world men's fault that they are attracted to women from Thailand, Philippines, Columbia, and Venezuela, but 1st world women are only attracted to men from the "good countries" and have a certain amount of privilege and social status. Bizarrely this is a tacit acceptance of the notion that some percentage of the least-desirable men are just undateable, too bad, oh well -- you're just okay with it if they're Thai, Filipino, Colombian, or Venezuelan.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/06/26 10:49 PM
3

Yeah, chronic illness treatment (which is basically what mental health treatment is) is a whole different ballgame, and it's often really hard for people to make that shift from the well/unwell binary paradigm to a spectrum paradigm of more or less severe symptoms.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/06/26 09:46 PM
3

Sure? I don't really see accusing someone of something incorrectly as lying so much as being wrong, but ymmv.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/06/26 08:16 PM
6

The response to that accusation is, 'no, I want a loving and respectful relationship where we team up on life and divide labor in this way.' The accusation is 'you don't even care about the person, their hopes, dreams, ambitions, or who they are.' If that's not true, that's the rebuttal.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/06/26 04:55 PM
1

I think this hinges mainly on whether there are serious feelings of disgust on either's part towards the other. We tend to talk about attraction and sexual orientation in terms of positive feelings, aka what traits or genders entice you, because in regular life that's more relevant, but in an extremely limited scenario like this it becomes all about whether the idea of sex with that other person revolts you or not.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/06/26 04:24 PM
7

Sorry, this hypothetical is strained and doesn't prove anything.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/06/26 04:20 PM
4

It is absolutely about semantics. This is a good place to recognize you didn't really understand the word and walk back your claim.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/06/26 04:17 PM
3

No thanks. I watched too many documentaries about the Habsburg dynasty.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/06/26 04:15 PM
7

20 people is already too few. There's no way back from that.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/06/26 04:03 PM
1

So really the 14 people in the hypothetical who are procreating need to not.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/06/26 04:00 PM
1

If you are looking for a strictly transactional exchange of financial support for housework and sex, I personally find that squicky. But it's not unethical as long as you are completely transparent about it and pair up with someone who finds that arrangement satisfactory.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/06/26 03:54 PM
3

Eh, the real problem is that the phrase 'bare minimum' is vague AF and doesn't have a specific, fixed meaning. People use it to try to describe that they're not asking for a lot, relative to their own perspective, but everyone has their own perspective. It's just not a terribly useful term.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/06/26 11:40 AM
2

Always in imminent danger? Yes, that's way above baseline. That would have to interfere with ADLs in a really debilitating way. They're in active distress constantly. That person needs serious professional help, not a partner who validates their emotions.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/06/26 12:10 AM
4

Wild.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/06/26 08:42 PM
12

Tbf, nobody likes being called out by data. That's why my Garmin is very rude to me.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/06/26 08:27 PM
5

Right. Risk assessment and risk tolerance are only somewhat related to actual statistical risk.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/06/26 05:36 PM
6

Oh hey, so I'm actually a super data-driven nerd, and I am also the sort to have time data to reference (I find it helpful in managing my ADHD, what can I say). I also have the type of autism that has a horrible time letting an inaccuracy stand (you are all shocked by this, I can tell). My response recommendation, that both validates the feeling and sets the record straight in a way that satisfies my brain, would be something like, "I don't think I played videogames that much last week -- my log…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/06/26 05:30 PM
2

Ah, it's pretty hard to validate someone's feelings while dismissing them as neuroticism at the same time, yeah.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/06/26 05:22 PM
3

True, good point. Many people do kinda suck at identifying what will actually make them feel better, and just stab around in the dark hopefully. I contend talking about it improves it, though -- even if you have to say super asinine things like, 'ugh, I thought I wanted to cuddle but now I'm just sitting here being mad while cuddling, this isn't working, let's try something different.'
/r/PurplePillDebate19/06/26 05:19 PM
3

That just means her perceptions and what she wants are more important than his perceptions and what he wants. Nah. Again, the perceptions don't really matter (unless you are arguing with the sort of eminently rational person who will actually be able to reason themselves out of a feeling when presented with new factual info -- not common). This is true for both of them. What she wants matters. What he wants matters. Neither one is more important. When two people want different things, they can c…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/06/26 05:15 PM
9

I've never heard a claim that the difference is entirely social, and that sounds absurd to me.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/06/26 05:04 PM
5

Well yeah, because the emotion is the problem. Not the small chance of a random rapist. Validating and supporting someone through a difficult emotion is a pretty solid fix.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/06/26 04:21 PM
2

but the messaging is always the same work for the same pay Not really? I'm not quibbling that many people fail to engage very deeply with the topic and misunderstand it in this vein, but it's definitely not hard to find people talking about it in a more sophisticated way. People who are invested in closing the wage gap and engaged with that work understand that means addressing the related gender imbalances (such as who does more caregiving, who does more overtime, what fields people go into, et…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/06/26 04:14 PM
9

Therapists would tell you this is the place to use 'I' statements instead of 'you' statements. It isn't 'you play videogames too much,' it's 'I want to do X with you during your videogame time' or whatever. Their perception doesn't really matter, which is why making it more accurate almost never does anything to defuse the argument. Their feeling that they want X matters. (which anyone with half a neuron would recognise as setting up an unsatisfiable condition - her perception will always be tha…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/06/26 04:06 PM
3

We really should. I don't like to get too moral panic about this, but internet connectivity combined with pocket computers really is the wild west for the human brain and people a few centuries on are probably going to be aghast at the way we did this.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/06/26 12:48 AM
7

Speech, instruction (given and received), debate, plus of course reading others' written words (both texts and correspondence) and writing one's own (not all written word communication happens as published work).
/r/PurplePillDebate19/06/26 12:41 AM
11

This is mistaken. Of course books were not the only medium for engaging with intellectual ideas.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/06/26 09:38 PM
3

Sure there is. Philosophy and intellectualism in general has always been the realm of a relatively small group of people (skewing towards the elites who could spare the time and access to education that fuels them). The general public in 1792 wasn't putting their every thought on the internet for you to read but the everyday banality of human existence is ongoing. If anything the Internet has probably made philosophy more accessible to people outside elite spheres (while at the same time providi…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/06/26 09:36 PM
16

Excellent comment. Men who will not believe anything a woman tells them should not waste everyone's time asking questions pointlessly.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/06/26 07:37 PM
–

It feels like men are expected to show emotional investment without ever making the other person feel restricted. Yes, basically. Although in a committed long-term relationship it's fair to have an understanding that your decisions affect your partner, and agreements about how you both will navigate that. In regards to your quote though -- most people want their partner to be on their team. They want a cheerleader, encouragement when the going gets rough, and enthusiasm when they have an idea th…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/06/26 07:28 PM
2

Fair. I think probably what I meant was more of, 'it's not surprising that people sometimes misunderstand.'
/r/PurplePillDebate18/06/26 03:30 PM
4

Nah. The generalities are pretty obvious and well-known, and get discussed here all the time. They're not a secret, but for any single item that is generally desirable, there is a significant minority who prefers the opposite. It's more like any commonalities come with a large caveat. 'Women like this -- except for all the ones that like that.'
/r/PurplePillDebate18/06/26 01:25 PM
4

I feel like in this case you should be doubly aware of how much the average person does not understand taxes. 😆
/r/PurplePillDebate18/06/26 01:22 PM
6

That's so basic I don't think it could be considered a 'type.' I think most people want a partner who matches this. The poster upthread is talking about personality variations, like -- do you want her to be a bubbly chatterbox that wants to talk to you all the time, or the still-waters-run-deep type who is happy to sit with you silently or work together on a project without necessarily talking nonstop? Do you want to have a busy shared social calendar or do you want to limit that? Do you want to…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/06/26 01:19 PM
5

Yeah, I think it's a little bit of a failure, but also I think it's unfortunately a little bit of how the natural transition from limerance to long-term love goes. I don't mean this as a malicious thing, either. It's very easy to fall in love with the version of someone that they are when they're head over heels for you, you're new and exciting, and they're just getting to know you. That version of the person can inadvertently come off as more emotionally open, more enthusiastic, etc., than thei…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/06/26 01:11 PM
2

I get what you're describing and mainly agree, but I want to point out that men and women both do both sides of this.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/06/26 01:06 PM
1

Yeah, it is true that people (which in this case means women) have a tendency to overgeneralize their experience and believe that their own opinions are more universal than they are in reality. It's not malicious, but it doesn't make understanding any easier.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/06/26 01:03 PM
3

Yeah, I don't think this take is it. You're trying to argue for a utilitarian idea that men doing the vast majority of housework in addition to paid work and whatnot will result in better results for domestic, familial bliss, but all of this assumes that this could happen without taking an emotional, physical, or mental toll on the man. That seems unlikely most of the time. You got a few things right. I do think women tend to find competence hot. And though I think 'feminine energy' is some Tikt…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/06/26 12:55 PM
1

I looked up wtf Bunnings was just because of this comment. 😅
/r/PurplePillDebate18/06/26 12:43 PM
1

Actually this is a valid point. People pleasing is a type of manipulation at its heart, though it doesn't involve lying and basically just involves being so agreeable and nice that someone will (hopefully) keep liking you.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/06/26 12:31 PM
1

Eh, I would agree with you if you softened this to something like 'the best men for relationships tend to be in relationships' or 'a large proportion of the available men are not necessarily great men to be in a relationship with.' I think statistically that is probably more or less true, because men (and women) who are bad at doing relationships are more likely to find themselves single more often. Finding a great match in the pool of available matches is certainly akin to looking for a rare Ma…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/06/26 12:26 PM
–

Indeed, reexamination is and should be a continual, iterative process. Outcomes matter, and principles matter. That tension is definitely part of what makes system design difficult.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/06/26 12:20 PM
–

Yep, and if this is indeed the best option, reexamination should arrive at that conclusion again. There's no reason to assume that people in the past were invariably correct, but a bad system will be demonstrable as bad each time.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/06/26 11:43 AM
2

I genuinely had no idea Wikipedia had so many photos of penises. o.O
/r/PurplePillDebate17/06/26 08:23 PM
4

Right, I think it is possible to have a 'you're growing up' celebration or ritual that doesn't hinge on bodily functions that are outside of your control. From my understanding a lot of masculine rituals that transition a boy to a man involve going out and doing some difficult, dangerous, or painful task. I'd be pretty cool with some kind of 'once you have completed X then the community will celebrate you as an adult!' ritual. Maybe our teens could take public transit and complete a quest or som…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/06/26 06:38 PM
1

What I mean by average is essentially the middle ground between being objectively as good as you can be and as bad as you can be. Median. The word you're looking for here is median. But a woman is objectively arousing and attractive just by being a woman. I realize I'm a pedantic asshole who cares about the meaning of words, but whether a woman is arousing and attractive is definitionally subjective, not objective. We talk here and nauseum about men tending to be easily aroused by appearance and…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/06/26 06:12 PM
2

To be honest I think this inclination relates to my general observation that secular US culture doesn't really have enough celebrations, holidays, and lifetime milestones. Many of the ones we do have are directly lifted from religious practices, and adopted with the serial numbers filed off. Which is fine if you're culturally associated with that religion, but doesn't leave much for the fully secular folks.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/06/26 03:58 PM
5

I got a sugar cube corsage for my sweet 16 (a weird tradition that nobody else my age has ever heard of, but apparently was mildly popular in the northeastern US in the 1950s?). Mercifully it was not linked to menstruation, though.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/06/26 03:55 PM
2

I wouldn't link it directly to puberty, an awkward period that most teens do not want to have extra attention called to, but I do think that coming of age rituals or celebrations are meaningful and worth practicing for young adults of all genders. For what it's worth, there have been many examples of male manhood rituals or celebrations in various cultures. And most modern Americans don't really celebrate a girl's first period formally (thankfully). I actually think high school graduation is bas…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/06/26 03:52 PM
–

Sure. I notice you said, "correctly," which implies you believe there is a right way and a wrong way to pair up romantically/sexually. This is probably the first point to examine and discuss within society, to determine whether there is indeed a correct way for that to work that people can agree on. Laws and policies such as tax expenditure tend to derive from society's ethical codes, so establishing a consensus on the latter will be the most effective way of proposing changes to the former.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/06/26 03:46 PM
11

No. Visual sense occurs by allowing light to be turned into electrical signals by the eyeballs and sent off to the brain, where the brain analyzes the data and in some cases goes, 'wow, very sexy!' and pumps out some arousal chemicals. More or less. All that is being described is a dynamic where the electrical visual signals don't trigger arousal chemicals (or trigger them in smaller quantities), but behavioral stimuli (how he acts, moves, talks, smiles) also trigger arousal chemicals to be sent…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/06/26 04:01 AM
10

Porn is made up. It is a fantasy of how we wish sex/the world works. Wishing real life were more like it is like wishing Tatooine was a real place.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/06/26 03:45 AM
1

I get that, but I think probably the M&Ms themselves aren't the problem in that case, it's the actual idea that upsets.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/06/26 03:39 AM
6

The Original Dick, as Hazbin Hotel so elegantly coined him.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/06/26 02:12 AM
0

Yeah, pretty much that. Like, human beings are not objects and I understand why it rubs people the wrong way to read analogies like that. But I think it can be easier to stay chill and calm and step outside heightened emotions a bit when talking about M&Ms or roller skates or whatever to analyze a dynamic, because it puts a little bit of distance between us and the analogy. So I personally try to give some grace to people who offer analogies to try to explain their perspective. (It might also be…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/06/26 02:04 AM
–

Honestly this is probably the number one disenchantment of growing up. Yes, you can fail, at things you really cared about and wanted.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/06/26 01:45 AM
3

What you are observing here is the tendency for ancient literature to provide instructive and cautionary lessons, like 'disregarding the instructions of a god will end in big fuckery for humankind.' This isn't particularly about women or their choices. People making bad choices and being punished for it is bread and butter stuff in ancient texts.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/06/26 08:08 PM
3

True, true.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/06/26 07:56 PM
1

Very doubtful to be honest.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/06/26 07:54 PM
5

"My only love, sprung from my only hate! Too early seen unknown, and known too late!"
/r/PurplePillDebate16/06/26 07:53 PM
3

Romeo was a besotted horndog who went to the party to stare at Rosaline, saw Juliet, and lost his damn mind over her instead in approximately four seconds. Dude is so fickle even his bros roast him for his change of heart.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/06/26 07:51 PM
4

Right. Obviously there are lots of women out there who like nerdy guys, but presumably there are also lots who do not, just like there are men who don't like nerdy guys. It's by no means a dating death knell, but it does mean you probably need to locate your market.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/06/26 07:44 PM
2

Agreed.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/06/26 07:41 PM
4

I would say late-stage capitalism, but why not both?!
/r/PurplePillDebate16/06/26 07:32 PM
4

I feel like the specifics of the harm are pretty relevant, too. Getting picked last for flag football is hurtful, but it's a different caliber than having someone trip you and grind your face in the mud. (This is meant to be a pretty vague metaphor -- I don't have a specific dating harm in mind as analogy.)
/r/PurplePillDebate16/06/26 07:29 PM
0

I mean, there's something pretty distasteful about any kind of analogy that compares people to objects, but I'm sympathetic to the use of analogy to try to lower the temperature on dating dynamics.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/06/26 07:25 PM
1

People don't wait until marriage because waiting until 26-32 to have sex is really hard.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/06/26 07:23 PM
3

You're assuming that most men consider a woman who's had past sex partners a 'downgrade.' Most men don't care about that to this degree. Mostly they have their own past sex partners and are fine with that. You're also assuming that most people getting together at 30 are unattractive, and/or that they didn't also have "an attractive woman in her prime" earlier in their dating history. Just because people are marrying later doesn't mean that most men are never sleeping with women under the age of …
/r/PurplePillDebate16/06/26 07:21 PM
8

If I, as a thinking person, observe that a previous situation was unjust, I should celebrate that system being overturned even if it means my personal situation being less advantageous. I don't want to live in a world where injustice is the norm. And I don't want to have an advantage that is the result of an unjust system.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/06/26 07:17 PM
9

It's not really true that there are no obligations and nobody owes anyone anything whatsoever in a society. Aside from the most committed libertarians, everyone believes in a social contract of one sort or another, and recognizes and accepts mutual duties of safety, security, dignity, and care to one another. These responsibilities are codified in law as well as appearing as social customs and mores. There are, of course, lots of differences in exactly what that looks like in practice, and lots …
/r/PurplePillDebate16/06/26 07:08 PM
2

Yeah, I mean, I'm personally somewhat ambivalent about the option to forgive a cheater. It's an interesting question though as it's one on which various religious groups, cultural groups, etc. don't cleave neatly as to which option is more pro-social. I think I agree with you that people inform their attitudes to cheating with general social attitudes.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/06/26 10:20 PM
2

Question: isn't a person staying with someone through thick and thin (even up to and including being cheated on) an example of that person's loyalty? This discussion makes it seem like men don't value loyalty in their prospective woman so much as they are looking to women's generalized attitude on male loyalty in order to determine how loyal they should be.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/06/26 10:02 PM
5

I think broadly speaking, most people like a variety of cheap and simple touchpoints in their relationship, with more elaborate or special occasions sprinkled in at intervals. Obviously there is a lot of variation between people, but in my experience people's desires for their relationship-sustaining activities mirrors their desires for other lifestyle activities. That is to say, people who like hiking in general probably are happy to have hiking dates, while people whose lifestyle is such that …
/r/PurplePillDebate15/06/26 09:38 PM
3

This is an odd perspective to me, because it seems likely that the current moment represents something of a low point in terms of women putting up with cheating, right? Of course some people do reconcile with a partner who cheats, but this seems to have been more common in eras past where a divorce was even more damaging than it is today.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/06/26 08:50 PM
2

Sexual assault conversations usually focus on women who are assaulted, which is its own problem, but yes, this principle applies to men as well.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/06/26 02:44 AM
4

Half of me?! I honestly have no interest in personal attacks, but your responses are really lacking in substance to debate with. You just keep asserting that you're right and that other respondents are lying, without arguing their specific rebuttals.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/06/26 08:46 PM
8

Everyone has some bias; this comment doesn't show a great deal of reflection. Also, 'no u' is not a brilliant rebuttal.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/06/26 08:39 PM
9

Interesting. I define my community as my family, my friends, my close geographic neighbors, my regional geographic neighbors, and the world, in concentric rings. I have different duties to each group, with stronger bonds of obligation and mutual support the closer to the center you go. This sounds like a difference of values, not a failure of logic. But can you clarify why the items I mention upthread aren't part of one's obligations to community, with this context?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/06/26 08:34 PM
11

You have to show your work here. Why is women volunteering, donating to charity, and participating in society not socialization and fulfillment of their duty to society?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/06/26 08:12 PM
7

No, your supports are claims for which you have no evidence. Please see above for specifics.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/06/26 07:59 PM
11

No. Because I wouldn't use the word 'selfish' merely to describe a person doing something with self-gratification as part of their purpose (or even as their only purpose), when the net result is also gratifying for someone else. I reserve that word for people doing something for self-gratification where no one else benefits, and more commonly where someone else must endure a dissatisfaction at the same time.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/06/26 07:58 PM
11

I mean, everything is done to some degree due to self-interest. I'm not sure you can say that because of that, there's no meaningful difference in selfishness between a person who buys an ice cream cone, and someone who donated the money for an ice cream cone to a little kid, so that they can enjoy feeling like the kind of person who would give an ice cream cone to a little kid. Wouldn't we normally call the second person more selfless than the first?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/06/26 07:24 PM
9

Women, men, and nonbinary folks are all capable of selfishness. But -- Women are not properly socialized: don't feel any pressure, don't think as being part of a community. Citation needed. I see women regularly feeling pressure to perform, excel, role conflict, and so on, and this is echoed in media -- see the song 'Surface Pressure' in Encanto, the famous America Ferrera speech in Barbie, Paris Paloma's 'Labour,' etc. Women also significantly participate in community building, including social…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/06/26 07:20 PM
3

Honestly, assuming Erica retained memories of her Eric experiences, dealing with a nonconsensual physical and mental alteration of this scope would probably fuck up the majority of people for life. Erica would most likely be a mess, her mental health would collapse, and she would act out in one or more ways before dying tragically young.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/06/26 06:57 PM
1

Okay. We can argue about that, but it doesn't really matter. If it turns out you're right and these ideas I'm seeking to change are basically baked in, then I'll fail and you don't need to go to any great effort to fight against my efforts.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/06/26 04:10 AM
4

All animals are equal. Some animals are more equal than others.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/06/26 03:59 AM
0

Sure, although I don't think I was particularly dismissive about it. I don't think there's anything casual about the marketplace of ideas. Even so, we have radically reshaped dominant beliefs and ideas before, and we will continue to do so.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/06/26 03:50 AM
3

Society is gynocentric and politicians pander to the women’s vote. Can they pander a little harder? It seems like a gynocentric society catering to women would have things like mainly-female leadership, maybe revoke male franchise, super normal things like that.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/06/26 03:46 AM
3

Finding other people's emotions tiresome and uncompelling is, itself, an emotional perspective. Men would do better if they acknowledged the role of emotion in their own argumentation.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/06/26 03:43 AM
0

Everyone has the power to influence change and not abide by these norms, but they uphold it because it benefits them in some way.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/06/26 03:31 AM
4

This part is fairly true. I don't totally agree that the direct benefit isn't there, but it's mingled with some serious direct drawbacks. I also think the lack of clear benchmarks of success makes it more difficult in general to see whether progress is being made, especially in a way that feels meaningful to an individual.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/06/26 03:19 AM
0

It describes ideas. There is nothing unchangeable or destined about prevailing ideas.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/06/26 03:01 AM
-1

This is exactly, literally, what patriarchy is. Patriarchy is all of us upholding patriarchal beliefs and norms, reinforcing them through myriad social mechanisms.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/06/26 12:29 AM
2

not enough of society wants that. Too many people, again men and women both are continuing to enforce them. Yeah. This is the problem. We all know this is a problem. Progressives aren't unaware of this dynamic, but the only option for changing societal norms is to continuously, slowly, practice other norms and share them and teach them to others.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/06/26 12:24 AM
1

I think maybe we mean somewhat different things by 'simping.' I tend to think of it as meaning: making ongoing bids of attention, affection, and interest to someone who might not be uninterested, but also isn't reciprocating that energy or escalating the relationship at all. Is that what you're talking about?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/06/26 12:22 AM
2

Okay, I guess? Women have been looksmaxxing forever (as have some men -- while the cultural importance placed on male beauty seems to vary more than female beauty across time and place, and according to social group, it's hardly a new idea). Looking attractive attracts more partners which generally means more opportunity to pair up with partners you prefer better. There's argument to be had about whether this dynamic is desirable or how much any given person should go out of their way to improve…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/06/26 10:59 PM
1

Honestly, this is totally my pedantic language ass showing itself, but this idea can be expressed in a moralizing way or a morally-neutral way. Probably more often people do mean it in a moralizing way, though, so I take your point.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/06/26 05:59 PM
1

Ehhh. This overlooks the many extremely average-looking men (and women) in the various free love movements over time.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/26 09:46 PM
1

Eh, but these ideas are all intertwined and many people consider them to be part of 'sluttiness.' There is a fella just above saying that a woman 'acting slutty' with him, aka being overtly sexual, is disconcerting. I take your point, but this topic is complex and there is a lot of variety in people's experiences and opinions.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/26 09:42 PM
1

Ohhhh.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/26 01:13 AM
1

Yeah, that is what I said. They are separate things.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/26 01:10 AM
6

Super relatable, haha! I am happy compromising my preferences and being considerate of my spouse when we are together. But when he is out of the house for a long period, I sure revel in the freedom to play whatever music without headphones, turn on lights and get dressed in a puttery fashion while being able to see what I'm doing, and know that when I set things up a certain way they will remain like that until I get back.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/26 08:01 PM
6

I agree with you. I'm not even bi, but friendship across gender lines of all types has always been normal to me. I can only assume the way I form boundaries between 'friends' and 'maybe more than friends' differs in some way from people who refrain from any kind of closeness with others of their preferred gender.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/26 07:56 PM
1

I think you'll find that a lot of people's experience with relationships (whether by preference or because that's just what they've experienced as normal) falls more to the enmeshed/somewhat codependent side of the scale. To an extent some of this is simply a lifestyle preference and a question of compatibility. But it is possible to go really far in either direction of course.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/26 07:52 PM
3

This doesn't really make sense. If we waved our hand and erased the patriarchy* today, biological variation in a bimodal form would still exist. And probably be challenging, but maybe less so since we could just worry about the biological variations themselves. *For definitional purposes, in my comments 'the patriarchy' = 'the set of beliefs, norms, and expectations describing how people of various genders ought to think, and act.'
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/26 07:42 PM
1

It's a bit circular. He's unsuccessful because he's bitter, and we know he's bitter because he's unsuccessful and complaining about it. The irony is that for quite a few guys, this is basically how it goes. Some rejections feed into bitterness which makes further rejections more likely, and everything descends in a vicious spiral.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/26 07:33 PM
2

What this other poster said is true, though. This is further complicated in that some people will experience loss of attraction to this man based on his behavioral cues, while others will remain attracted to him but make a reasoned judgment call against him and reject him anyway. From the man's perspective he may never know which is at play in any given case.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/26 07:26 PM
2

No, this continues to be a sticking point that many men consistently struggle to grasp. Many people, including what seems to be a majority of women, experience attraction based on both physical appearance/attributes and behavioral cues. It's fine honestly if your attraction doesn't work this way and is strictly physical in nature, but this is not so for many people.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/26 07:23 PM
-1

Being unsuccessful at dating doesn't necessarily mean one is a bad person, but some bad people are also unsuccessful at dating.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/26 07:20 PM
5

Insults aren't all about morality. 'Jerk' is an insult with an aspect of morality to it -- it's given to a person who acts in an unkind way (or to someone whom the insulter wants to paint in that light). 'Loser' is an insult without an aspect of morality to it. Instead its sting rests in the implication of failure. Different axis: failure<-->success is not the same as bad<-->good.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/26 07:14 PM
1

Yeah, I think the fantasy of Disney films is in the absolute black-and-white nature of things. Real life is messier, people who are basically good do bad things sometimes, and people who are basically bad can act good sometimes. A few Disney movies examine this (Hans in Frozen and Mother Gothel in Tangled come to mind), but mainly their protagonists make small errors of judgment if anything, like rebelling against an authority figure in pursuit of a higher cause. I agree with you re: hitting peo…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/26 08:28 PM
–

I mean, that's probably true. Lots more people are self-centered or oblivious than are truly malicious. There's a related debate about whether people who act selfishly are 'bad actors' but that mainly depends on how one defines the term. The harm is done regardless.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/26 07:30 PM
–

Are you trying to talk about people not intentionally being bad actors, like that bad actions come more often from people acting selfishly but meaning well, rather from moustache-twirling versions of outright villainy? I think you might be saying something that sort of holds water, but it's not clear.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/26 06:20 PM
2

I think maybe we're talking past each other. I agree that little kids don't necessarily understand nuanced reasons behind characters. What I don't really understand is why anyone, of any age, would watch these films and think women or girls are always good and innocent, incapable of deceit or evil. The narrative simplicity of these films is that there isn't too much in shades of gray -- characters are usually good or evil, not a little of both. I would agree with an analysis that Disney films do…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/26 06:15 PM
1

This leads into a couple of interesting side discussions! But I'm going to leave it there, cheers.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 10:48 PM
3

To create an incentive structure that punishes the breaching of the contract. Any penalty provides a disincentive, so while I take your point that they shouldn't be so mild as to be "easily shrugged off," it doesn't follow why the middle ground short of ruinous is off-limits. Why do we need to ruin people who break obligations? This feels like maybe a personal belief rather than a reasoned one.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 10:46 PM
2

Sure, the minority who actually values marriage intrinsically.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 10:43 PM
2

All kids are naive. But these are also films made for kids so they are not that sophisticated, either. Kids who are two are not adept at textual analysis but watch Disney films all the time, so this argument seems like a nonstarter. Obviously the understanding of a two-year-old vs. a six-year-old vs. a ten-year-old is going to be different in terms of complexity. It doesn't follow that the two-year-old can't identify which characters are 'good' and which are 'bad.' Can you revisit some of my exa…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 10:42 PM
7

Why must the penalty for breach of contract be ruinously costly? That seems excessive for a breach of this type. Penalties for breaching contracts are pretty normal, but not typically ruinously so.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 10:37 PM
2

Honestly, the only party who would make a contract like that would be one who considers getting kicked in the balls all day to be the reward. So this metaphor actually kind of works, weirdly.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 10:30 PM
6

Mmmn, consent can be revoked freely at any time. A contract cannot, so while you might be able to say that a person has agreed freely to enter this contract, you can't say they would have consented to every sexual act that follows.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 10:26 PM
4

Right, I agree about that. If it's an important and valuable role then it should be equally important and valuable for anyone to fill it.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 10:23 PM
5

I would venture to say these are all very straightforward understandings of these films, so yeah, I think a kid would understand them. Depending on the age they might not be able to articulate them very well, though, or explain the whys behind each character.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 10:20 PM
2

Full agree.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 08:06 PM
18

I would agree on average that a shy weirdo girl who is not also distressingly unattractive will probably get enough sexual/romantic interest to potentially have relationships. But I would not say that is because people take pity on them.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 06:49 PM
3

My fifteen-year-old is into this right now and honestly it is damn hilarious.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 06:45 PM
3

Super valid point -- men singing/rapping about sex in the pursuit of status = power feels less sexual to people sometimes than people singing/rapping about sex in the pursuit of pleasure.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 06:36 PM
1

Good point re: the target audience's tastes.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 06:33 PM
8

.....what?? Maybe you should give some examples of artists in these genres that you consider to be devoid of sex, so that other people can weigh in on them specifically.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 06:31 PM
5

I have a hilarious metal cover of WAP on a playlist somewhere though. It is a lot.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 06:29 PM
2

Music is huge and most people aren't familiar with the vastness. We all tend to listen to our own preferred subgenres and whatnot. I assume I'm not in the loop enough to even know what counts as 'modern female popular music' so I'm just cruising through the comments.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 06:28 PM
7

Like fucking Billy Joel has a song about oral sex, right? It's everywhere.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 06:24 PM
6

TIR that Peaches by The Presidents of the United States of America is probably also about asses. I'm doing great, y'all. 😆
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 06:22 PM
25

Honest question: are you close friends with a lot of shy women at the back of classrooms? I was and I wouldn't agree that this was their typical experience.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 06:16 PM
1

Mmn. Sure, let's run with that. Answer this question for me, if your a woman during a time where you need to get married young, you can't really fool around with a hot player who you know won't take you seriously due to risk of pregnancy and your reputation, and dating apps do not exist so it's not like you can increase your scope of options beyond your own town, who else will you be dating if not the average guys around you in this scenario? Okay, so in a 1950s scenario, you are not supposed to…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 06:06 PM
4

The real answer about SAHPing, in my opinion, is that taking on that role represents moving from a position of independence (employment) to dependence, and that feels to most people like a loss of standing or security (probably both). The opposite move for women (from dependence as a SAHP role to independence and employment) feels like a gain of standing and/or security. That made it an easier (or maybe just more desirable) transition for them.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 05:48 PM
4

Aladdin -- Jasmine pretends to be a poor woman and lies when they meet, Aladdin is shocked to find out she's a princess. He then pretends to be a prince and lies to get access to her again, then she is shocked when this is revealed. Beauty and the Beast -- Belle is pretty uniformly virtuous throughout, but this is a classic tale of the beautiful heroine loathing the handsome jerk and instead falling in love with the horrible beastly jerk who grows more compassionate and considerate through their…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 05:42 PM
1

I want to treat this question as a serious one because this topic is of interest to me and I've studied it a fair bit. Can you clarify when-ish pre-sexual revolution you're talking?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 05:22 PM
1

I don't know anything in specific about Nigerian families, so if you have a source to point me to to read up on this I'd be happy to do so. The broad strokes of my comment are not misinformation, however, and are based on a comprehensive body of knowledge about childrearing practices in the US and Europe over the past three hundred years. Feel free to give a more developed rebuttal if you like.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 05:11 PM
1

It is about both, but also they are more intertwined than you're acknowledging. If people have to work such long hours to afford to live that they no longer have bandwidth to take on an intensive, two-decade project in addition to that, is that a money problem or a culture problem? It's both. Children stopped being an economic insurance policy in industrialized nations (as they are in poorer countries where the economic prospects of a family are more closely tied to total labor capacity and chil…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 04:28 PM
3

Sure, but the reproduction rate is a changing variable, and there is no reason to think it can't uptick again if needed.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 04:20 PM
1

It seems much more likely for humanity to become extinct through some kind of mass mortality event than through failure to procreate over time. These conversations seem somewhat hyperbolic to be honest, as though a declining birth rate is fated to just continue its descent unchecked forever, and nobody would notice or change their behavior around this at any point along the way.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 04:17 PM
2

Maybe, but it's worth examining whether the circumstances that made such a relationship dynamic possible for your father or grandfathers exist and are realistically achievable for you today. In the same way that a child of wealth and privilege that falls on hard times in adulthood should adapt to their means instead of insisting that they ought to have a lavish lifestyle anyway, we all should be making decisions about our lives based on our current reality as well as any values we may have been …
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 04:08 PM
3

You've got some decent points in here -- the shift towards white-collar work was an important shift in the indistrializing workplace and it initially it had gendered limitations that kept women from accessing those career options for the most part. Feminist attention to that disparity probably was needless in an industrial context where that work mostly didn't exist. The distinction/conflation you close with is accurate, but it also results inevitably from this shift of work out of the home/farm…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 03:47 PM
2

Women working on their family's agricultural or business pursuits, or working in cottage industry, are active participants in their family's economic prospects. Housewives are not, so critiques against that is raising a very specific concern.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 03:36 PM
9

When the Christian fundamentalists are on board it's safe to just nope out on principle.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 12:44 AM
10

The hilarious thing is that this was largely a Victorian myth. The early modern and medieval myth was that women were closer to animals and therefore more ruled by base lusts, while men, being more rational, were better able to rise above such instincts and better control their passions.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 12:39 AM
16

I think truly a lot of modern secular folks who debate here simply cannot relate to the impact religion has in shaping behaviors of people existing in systems like this. If your religious practice holds that God has put you together with this other person in a sacramental or otherwise divinely blessed bond, living with it and finding silver linings or growth opportunities becomes a spiritual imperative, not just a social belief. People in these kind of belief structures think of bad spouses the …
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 12:31 AM
6

The details of this vary quite a bit depending on exactly which "back in the day" we look at. I personally think in the 40s, 50s, and 60s, most western couples were marrying for love in one sense or another. But that's quite a different matter from modern love marriages; they tended to marry younger and sooner, to not cohabit prior to marriage, and were less likely to opt out of marriage before 30 if they hadn't met anyone they felt was an excellent match. Marrying badly was a known risk and cau…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 12:20 AM
4

Yeah, I think it depends heavily on the exact family culture. Some families have a very strong 'don't air your dirty laundry' dynamic and talk about issues very circumspectly if at all.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/26 12:13 AM
1

It sounds like you're arguing that men need more societal supports, encouragement to not make martyrs of themselves and to set healthy boundaries, collective action to support labor interests against unscrupulous employers, and maybe even updated etiquette guidance to match 21st century social norms. Those things sound good. Let's have them.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/06/26 06:59 PM
1

Damn, they're making another predator film?!
/r/PurplePillDebate04/06/26 03:49 AM
3

I suppose. I see women who care about men's issues and women who don't care about men's issues both wanting others to agree with their perspectives about women's issues, so that makes it seem like caring about men's issues (or not) is an unrelated conditional.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/06/26 06:10 PM
3

Eh, these are not mutually exclusive things. They can care about it and use the statistics as a rhetorical tool.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/06/26 05:52 PM
10

I don't follow this chain of logic. Women who take offense at the belief that abortion should be outlawed generally feel that is a violation of pregnant people's bodily autonomy. Obviously that constitutes a serious difference of opinion, but how does that relate to not caring about men's issues? Similarly, women who disagree that women should be stay at home moms disagree because of their own deeply held beliefs. I guess you could say that represents feeling entitled to have others agree with t…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/06/26 05:51 PM
3

It also depends on the strength of their self-control. There are two inputs in this equation.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/26 09:45 PM
8

Listening to a lot of random YouTubers also doesn't make you an expert on anything. Being a YouTuber doesn't make you an expert on anything! We are almost all amateur sociologists with no real training in this field as well as varying life experience and educational backgrounds. Yay!
/r/PurplePillDebate26/05/26 08:29 PM
2

If you set up conditions where that level of TFR happens more naturally to most you maximize the freedom of individuals who are innately more averse to mating and/or reproducing to opt out. Right. I'm obviously averse to rolling back human rights gains, but I think there are plenty of potential solutions to tweaking the preferred choices of the influencible middle of people within ethical boundaries. But it's difficult to discuss in detail because the foundational consensus of, say, 'we need a 2…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/05/26 08:25 PM
3

It's possible to argue a case for needing to try to adjust the population-level reproduction rate (and how one might go about doing that), but one of the major problems with this argument here is that the question of exactly how much procreation is necessary for society to persist, how much would be ideal for society to thrive, whether and how that changes over time, and how wide the gap is between the current rate of reproduction and the desired one is, are not at all settled. People here tend …
/r/PurplePillDebate26/05/26 08:10 PM
5

I disagreed with that post and I disagree with this one too, but if all else fails, at least can the people who think this way date each other and leave the rest of us out of it?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/05/26 07:55 PM
1

Ding ding ding.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/05/26 05:22 PM
3

Honestly, as this interaction shows pretty well, in part there is no internet-wide consensus because social norms and mores can vary widely regionally and by community. It's worthwhile to investigate what people say on the internet but it's also important to tune in to the social milieu you exist in.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/05/26 05:12 PM
1

I think this is right -- at one point I was going to try to collect survey data from respondents here about this very question and chart it out a bit. But yeah, although I feel like most people have one noteworthy cold approach meetcute story in their family tree somewhere, part of the reason those get told and retold is because they are in fact rare and kind of cinematic (in hindsight, after they got married and had fifteen grandkids and are celebrating their golden anniversary). My parents met…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/05/26 05:01 PM
1

The argument happened several days ago and I made my point pretty clearly at the top of this thread, I think. In the context of women's sexuality, their actual arousal is irrelevant because a lack of arousal can be paired with either attraction or non-attraction.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/05/26 12:05 AM
6

Cat tax: here is a weirdo eating a lemon. https://preview.redd.it/o37bdmtvdc3h1.jpeg?width=4080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dfaf47dc8199ee888d24221d3a1f37f2cbd8a921
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/26 08:19 PM
3

You lost me, man. I realize you think this idea is nuts, but I think sticking a finger in someone's ass as a test is nuts, ngl.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/26 08:12 PM
1

No. Trying to argue that being attracted to someone is the same as being turned on makes no sense.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/26 08:11 PM
5

I don't really know what it would mean to have a close personal relationship where specialness wasn't a part of it. On the one hand I don't consider myself better than or more special than other random people, generally. I feel that I have equal significance to them; no better, no worse. And my actual merits may be better or worse in various aspects based on all the qualities, statistics, normal distributions, and so on. But there is a warmth and closeness that comes from holding another in spec…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/26 08:05 PM
4

No. Just use your words.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/26 07:56 PM
2

This doesn't even follow. Plenty of people enjoy anal stimulation/fingering who aren't into pia penetration.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/26 07:39 PM
2

I actually largely agree with you. I think most people do have heightened sexual frequency during the NRE phase, and might not even necessarily recognize that's what's going on. It doesn't make them bad people, but it does mean that when that settles out in a year or so the resulting baseline might not work any longer. I also agree that people have a bad tendency to be too committed after a year and go to significant lengths to try to make a relationship work, even if it shows clear signs at tha…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/26 07:34 PM
7

The one thing that FetLife got right!
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/26 07:26 PM
3

Maybe so. I would love to know if that holds true for men who have been in long-term sexual relationships, as well. And perhaps if it holds true for men over 35.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/26 07:21 PM
1

We were talking about attraction here, not arousal.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/26 07:19 PM
17

Right? Like, I was there and even I can't tell you exactly how I was during any specific past moment of sex, or why I did a particular act. It seemed like a good idea at the time? I was in the mood? The stars aligned? It's like trying to articulate why I ordered the scallops instead of the steak one night at dinner twenty-three years ago. I dunno, I felt like it then. It's not that deep.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/26 03:04 AM
1

I don't actually understand at all how a person is meant to tell the purported difference between their partner now vs. their partner in the past, unless they have known this person that entire time and have some kind of direct insight into their enthusiasm, eagerness, and effort in bed at both points. It seems like the past version of the partner would have also had boundaries and required respect, right? Or if they didn't for some reason, that's recognizably bad and we should all be glad they …
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/26 02:55 AM
6

It's really just whether they're stating their real boundary, or bluffing hoping their partner will change their behavior to match their preference.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/05/26 12:28 PM
2

I agree that giving/receiving X are separate kinks, definitely. I dunno, at some level I don't know where the dividing like between a super common kink and a standard mainstream sex act falls. Obviously there are some men who aren't into receiving (giving? Unclear which verb is more appropriate here!) deep-throating, but that's true of everything.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/26 11:05 PM
–

Nah bro. Women do a lot of chores because they look around and see a bunch of chores that need to be done. If they complain about having to clean up after their husband, it's because they think he should be able to put his own plate in the dishwasher and mop up when he tracks in mud or whatever. If women wanted to avoid sex with their husbands, that's what smartphones are for.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/26 10:42 PM
2

Yeah, my response was a side thought not so much a disagreement, sorry if that wasn't clear.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/26 10:38 PM
3

Yeah, no sex act is inherently submissive or dominant. This is actually why I'm super glad top/bottom/verse terminology is getting more mainstream alongside dom/sub/switch terminology.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/26 10:35 PM
0

I think the main difference is that certain kink dynamics -- female submission, whether exclusively in sex or in terms of lifestyle/relationship dynamics, are super normalized and accepted as part of non-kinky relationships and sex dynamics. Basically I think a lot of people are practicing kink without really recognizing it (and without much of the accompanying community emphasis on safety and consent that helps make these practices safer).
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/26 10:24 PM
1

It probably still counts, in the same way that fisting counts. It's technically just a bigger/fuller insertion, right, but it also involves an element of pain/pressure being overcome as well as a more extreme level of vulnerability/openness for the one being penetrated, so I'd allow it.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/26 10:20 PM
1

Oooh.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/26 10:16 PM
3

That guy is married, what are you talking about? I care about lots of people I'm not planning to sleep with.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/26 07:55 PM
–

True!
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/26 05:25 PM
–

Nah, I care about him. That shit sucks.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/26 05:20 PM
–

Sure, I don't disagree that professional success earns people respect and acknowledgement, and that that feels great. I think most people would like to 'not work' in the sense that their financial comfort was assured, they could choose their own adventure in terms of doing passion projects or working a schedule they find pleasant, and continue to have the lifestyle and social success and respect that they have while working. I actually don't think people are very happy lazing about watching Netf…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/26 04:59 PM
–

Dude, are you okay? You should stop having sex or doing sex acts you don't like. Seriously.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/26 04:51 PM
3

It's a mindset that stems, I think, from being deeply afraid of abandonment, which includes needing confidence in the reality of their partner's affections that can only be obtained through demonstrations of importance and continual reassurance. Well, I mean, I guess this particular iteration also stems from being indifferent to their partner's actual enjoyment in the face of their own wants. But the other I swear is the throughline that adheres so much of the RP/BP perspectives. "What if I'm no…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/26 04:49 PM
1

I agree with that so I'm not sure what you disagree about, but fair!
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/26 04:43 PM
6

Now this sounds like "I can change him!!" with more steps.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/26 04:39 PM
6

Bro, I agree with you, but the "it is obvious that she didn't stop doing it because she doesn't like you enough" part is the part that they refuse to believe.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/26 04:24 PM
–

This seems obvious, in the same way that most men (people) don't like having to work for a living. Most women don't especially enjoy their man having to work, either. This isn't a thing that is enjoyable. I don't disagree that having a full-time housekeeper and family manager is a great advantage if you can get it.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/26 04:16 PM
2

I don't know, maybe. I imagine there are degrees of intensity to this mentality and also more- and less-romanric ways to go about it. I'm not sure that men with this mindset won't also sometimes be pretty unsuccessful.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/26 04:10 PM
0

No, nobody is discussing that.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/26 04:07 PM
0

'Enthusiasm is better than begrudging agreement' is still an opinion based on values and preferences, but yeah, it's one the majority of people will agree with. This OP is talking about a wide variety of differences, though. 'Oral sex is better than no oral sex' or 'bondage is better than no bondage' or 'diaper play is better than breeding play' or whatever are opinions that are going to invite a little more disagreement between individuals.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/26 02:54 PM
5

So much romantic and sexual unhappiness stems from the misguided idea that there is a standard script that works most of the time and therefore we can skip having conversations about things. Or from people believing that what they like in a relationship/in bed is obvious or normal and people they get into relationships with must naturally want the same things.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/26 02:49 PM
24

Yeah, I think there are definitely men who like it, and who particularly get off on the idea that they have 'succeeded' in capturing a woman's affection like it was some kind of Skyrim quest. It seems fair to say that the idea that all men are like this is drastically overinflated.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/26 12:58 PM
17

You want me to pass on having a honest conversation with my man about something he did to upset me, and instead use our sex life to Pavlov him like a dog? This is so fucking bleak.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/26 12:56 PM
12

Look, you're right because "better" is a subjective assessment. But fundamentally this is a semantic argument and the men who make this argument won't care because they want whatever they mean by kinky sex, and are using 'better' according to their subjective opinions. I don't really know why people who want a certain kind of sex or lifestyle or mutually satisfying activity don't seek out partners who are compatible with that, but I'm going to guess it has to do with everyone's inability to talk…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/26 12:53 PM
-1

Preach.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/26 12:50 PM
4

It proves they got different treatment. Whether it's better or worse depends on how individuals feel about the differences.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/26 12:49 PM
19

But what if I want sex as a reward for myself?!? I've been doing a lot -- I deserve a little treat.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/26 12:46 PM
9

It doesn't really follow that women are impossible to get, when most of them are in relationships and a portion of those who aren't actively do not want to be. If there are women doing what you say they must be a relatively small percentage of the total.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/26 12:41 PM
13

Increasing birth rates has very little to do with women's mating strategy. Plenty of people date and marry with no intention of having kids, because they don't want them for a variety of reasons.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/26 12:39 PM
1

I made a more comprehensively detailed reply that expressed the same idea somewhere else here, but sure, if you like. Everyone's desire is a synergystic combination of their own internal appetite and the external stimuli that increase and direct it.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/26 12:35 PM
6

"Practice trusting them" jumped out at me and is so, so important. I tell new parents this a lot and I think it's critical. Your dad sounds like a hell of a guy.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/26 09:45 PM
3

Yes, thank you. Throughout the vast majority of history, everybody worked because that was literally where the food came from and people like to eat.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/26 09:41 PM
2

I think anyone who claims the orgasm gap is caused by any single thing is talking out their ass. It seems most likely that it's a multifactoral phenomenon, to which people of all genders contribute in various ways. To be honest teasing out the factors that contribute to it is only interesting in terms of theorizing ways to shrink it. Who cares whose fault it is? What can we do about it? Let's up our orgasm reps. Jeez.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/26 09:28 PM
2

Short men = lower tier than fat women. The "tiers" claim is silly but yes, I was only making a direct reference to fat married men. I don't dispute that shortness is a disadvantage in dating or that fat women get married. I don't think that's inconsistent with my prior statements. Women are amazing with their track record of sticking to their standards, no matter how unrealistic they are. Could be, but I guess we'll have to see. My personal opinion is that high-earning women will continue to mai…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/26 08:08 PM
2

There really is no clear dividing line, though? One person may defend me in one instance and harm me in another instance. It is more useful to distinguish between harmful and helpful behavior than individuals.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/26 07:32 PM
0

I just don't think modern people who debate politics and philosophy on the internet are blind to the concept that a free society where discourse on sundry topics without fear of reprisal can exist is a conscious decision of that society and supported by corresponding power structures.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/26 07:30 PM
1

Sure, but I think this is a more convincing argument when noting a positive action as potential evidence of an underlying feeling, than citing inaction as evidence of an absence of feeling. I also think it's particularly absurd to do this (claiming inaction is evidence of an absence of internal state) when talking about sexual expressions and behavior, an area of life that is rife with taboos, mixed cultural messaging, embarrassment, and shame.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/26 07:26 PM
2

You can't spit in any direction without hitting a married fat woman. How are beauty standards hitting women so hard when this is true? Sure, but the same is true for men. It's also a somewhat moot point when we have no idea what those married couples looked like when they first got together. Being adequately attractive is a getting-together thing, primarily. Not that many people will dump a spouse that they love and are committed to just because their looks changed. Beauty standards cover a lot …
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/26 07:19 PM
2

You can't help how you were born. This standard no longer applies to women, why should it apply to men? It's true. We all have to contend with the physical framework the fates gave us. Women do also contend with cultural beauty ideals though, even if the ideal differs from the male ideal, so it's odd that you contend it's not so. Women love his value more than they value his love. This is a conclusion you have drawn based on the standard I mentioned. It might or might not be true, and would need…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/26 05:23 PM
1

If men want women to behave differently, they can ask for that or encourage it; that would be a different conversation. It's foolish to assume that inaction means a lack of internal feelings, especially when the person states the contrary. We all can think of instances where we did not act on feelings for a variety of good and bad reasons.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/26 04:07 PM
2

I can see the logic behind thinking it's gauche to be too forthright about the specifics of someone's attraction. It's probably hard to walk that back as a society when oversharing about all of this stuff is ubiquitous, but I can see the argument that knowing more in detail about others' attraction is basically disadvantageous to everyone.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/26 12:12 AM
14

The standards you listed were: be beautiful not have sexist ideas make about as much money or more as the women that you want to date To be honest, we can quibble about whether each of these are absolute, but they don't seem at all excessive as things to look for in a prospective long-term life partner. There are already several important things you left off. Maybe the better question is, why did you think this is unreasonable?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/26 09:14 PM
2

I mean, I hate the phrase because it's imprecise and therefore kind of meaningless without further clarification.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/26 09:09 PM
5

Convenience, and probably confusion, stress, and frustration at the idea of trying other options.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/26 09:06 PM
2

Yeah, I agree with you. I think there are those (probably not that many here though as our BP contingent tends to be more thoughtful, precise types) who hold the nuance-free overly generalized view.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/26 08:50 PM
–

Agreed, though I also think there are usually a lot of people who basically fall in this camp but 'don't consider themselves feminists.'
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/26 06:17 PM
5

It tells me nothing about attraction, as previously mentioned.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/26 05:23 PM
–

This is such a crucial point. The position 'women getting the vote and more economic independence was good and laudable but now that that has been achieved we are in a post-feminist world' is still feminist in the sense that it's not anti-feminist, and it's not looking to push back women's rights. But it's also a very conservative (small-c) form of feminism.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/26 05:18 PM
5

Not really; I didn't bring up ghosts snidely. Internal mental states often do not have external observable evidence. This is extremely common.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/26 05:11 PM
6

To be honest that thesis statement would be a coherent and relevant discussion.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/26 05:03 PM
6

I cannot observe you, are you a ghost?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/26 05:00 PM
6

Not at all. And you know this, because surely you don't question the existence of erectile dysfunction.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/26 04:59 PM
9

You did the thing again where you supposed an internal mental process would be exhibited in some externally visible way.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/26 04:57 PM
5

I agree, and have before, that there is a heavily oversimplified opinion going on with this idea, underpinned by just world fallacy. It's also not "gaslighting." Overgeneralizing isn't gaslighting. And plenty of men (people really) have various skill issues.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/26 04:46 PM
12

Also, 'heterosexual women, which is the majority of them, are pretty much all either lying or deluded' is not the use of Occam's Razor you think it is.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/26 04:43 PM
6

Indeed, which is why I didn't talk about arousal (which is indeed a different thing) but attraction.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/26 04:40 PM
11

'Static pictures are boring' is not some fifteen-step mystical enchantment and it's wild that you can't discern that.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/26 04:37 PM
11

The fundamental issue here is that you don't believe women's self-reported experience of their own sexual attraction, even though sexual attraction is invisible to the outside eye. You are guessing at people's thoughts and feelings based on how you think those thoughts and feelings should influence their behavior.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/26 04:33 PM
5

It's possible to be ace and not sex-repulsed, so that you're okay with having sex for other reasons than actual sexual appetite. Which doesn't mean OP is on point at all. They're consistantly conflating attraction, identity, and behavior.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/26 04:31 PM
2

No, that pleases me.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/26 05:14 AM
–

That's a wildly unserious take. But am I to take it that your objection to social safety nets isn't really that it's making women too free from men, but rather that you just don't like society taking care of any people who are struggling?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/26 03:40 AM
–

What you can do however is making society more fair. Get rid of DEI program, social welfare programs, food stamps, affordable housing etc. So according to the US Census data from 2022, about 34.8 million men and boys received Medicaid or CHIP, vs. about 42.5 million women and girls. That is a 21.5% vs. 25.4% ratio. SNAP was about 15.9 million men and boys (9.8%) vs. 22.4 million women and girls (13.4%). Rental subsidies were 4.9 million men (3%) vs. 6.8 million women (4.1%). Not utterly insignif…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/26 03:32 AM
–

Sometimes it does. But I bet we can just say that all the single mother payments are paid for by the working women's taxes, and the men can pay for the old ladies.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/26 02:47 AM
–

Being poor, or old, isn't obviously a mistake or a shortcoming.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/26 02:45 AM
–

I can appreciate that but it was such a glaringly bad turn of phrase that I felt obliged to mention it anyway.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/26 02:43 AM
–

The fact is that women are the primary beneficiaries of all the safety nets and welfare programs, funded primarily by men. All this really means is that >50% of people benefitting from safety nets are women, which seems unsurprising since a huge number of people utilizing those programs are elderly, and women live longer into old age on average. And that the funds for said programs come >50% from men, which also isn't a surprise since more women of working age are out of the workforce than men. …
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/26 02:39 AM
–

Safety nets are not rights, but they are literally entitlements. Rights are a different thing (that people also have).
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/26 02:30 AM
–

It's a hard question to answer. It's important (to most allosexual people), but how important? It seems to vary widely. In terms of Maslow's hierarchy of needs I figure it comes into play at the 'belonging and love' level and possibly also the 'esteem' level, depending on the person. Society and government mostly seem to focus on ensuring that more basic needs are met -- physiological needs and some security and safety needs. Although it's true that my government also provides for other needs, s…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/26 02:26 AM
–

....no. Guys who just jam their dick in do not necessarily orgasm quickly. Those two things have no relationship to each other. Also the absolute worse sex for women is not lackluster quickies. It's being raped, painfully.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/26 02:18 AM
1

I mean, to be honest, my armchair quarterbacking of the thing is that women generally need less chronic stress and overstimulation, combined with long leisurely makeout sessions prior to any genitals getting touched. I think modern sex tends to be fast-paced and hurried because we have so many other things we could be doing in our connected houses with our 24/7 electric lighting, and men's arousal responses are better able to adapt to that on average compared to women's. I'm just one guy though,…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/05/26 10:38 PM
–

This is only one specific way of thinking about sex, though, right? Even if we assume that 'sex' only means piv penetration, if a man inserted his penis exactly once and didn't orgasm in the process, would we say he was defective?
/r/PurplePillDebate20/05/26 10:07 PM
–

Nah, nobody evolved to have sex in the 21st century way. Our nervous systems evolved for a slower pace of life. Our hormone levels and overall stimulation levels are different now than they were a hundred years ago, let alone ten or twenty thousand. Our erotic selves are certainly not unaffected by our current biological environment. I actually don't know that we have any real body of data to draw on in trying to study, for example, whether the orgasm gap is improving or worsening even in the la…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/05/26 09:30 PM
–

Kind of yes, except that developing a connection and knowledge of the other that leads you to consider them to be safe is pretty much the definition of trust. I don't really disagree with you that moving slow with intense feelings and being cautious to not get out over your skis is good advice. But also I can't advocate for avoiding ever developing trust. It's delicate.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/05/26 09:18 PM
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It means that sticking my hand into someone's ass is not as scary or embarrassing as letting someone else stick their hand in mine.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/05/26 09:04 PM
2

This isn't a rebuttal, it's just a retort. My point here was that dissatisfaction with a scenario isn't irrational. It might not be fixable, but being displeased is not surprising.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/05/26 07:38 PM
–

Okay? Women (some women) would like to do it more and would therefore like the risk to be lower.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/05/26 06:57 PM
–

I think we see that the women who find it the most unfulfilling or unsatisfactory don't bother, or try less often. I think this probably has to do with how hopeful they are that it might go well.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/05/26 06:54 PM
6

Emotional intelligence? I believe the research shows that women's average emotional intelligence is a bit higher than men's average, but I have no idea by what margin. Everyone has emotional intelligence in the same way that everyone has intellectual intelligence. It's a question of how much.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/05/26 04:23 PM
5

It's a judgment call, right? Fundamentally there is no 100% safe sexual relationship to be in. The risk is baked in to it whether you are engaging in drunken hookups or marrying your childhood sweetheart. It's never a question of risk/no risk, it's always a question of how much. So people have the option to eschew the whole thing (which is kind of silly since risk in every other part of life works the same way), or to figure out how much risk they are willing and able to tolerate, and proceed ac…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/05/26 04:19 PM
6

Nah, 'prize' is not the right word here as it suggests that the woman is holding on to it waiting until someone checks certain boxes, at which point she bestows it. It's a lot more basic than that. You could as easily say that 'male sexual desire depends on the woman's ability to ignite it and keep it alive' (presumably by looking hot). In one sense... sure? Without the hotness, he will not have the desire. But she also doesn't 'earn' his desire by looking hot. It's a direct cause-and-effect rel…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/05/26 04:03 PM
6

Since about 1995 it looks like. But psychological work on social and emotional intelligences goes back to the 1920s and '30s.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/05/26 03:58 PM
7

I think people put a lot of value on their gut instincts to tell them whether an individual is a danger to them. I don't necessarily think that it's reasonable, but that doesn't mean the person is lying about it. 'We talked for two hours and I felt like I could trust him' is a perfectly cogent belief even if it's not underpinned by any logic. People do all sorts of things based on irrational beliefs.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/05/26 02:38 PM
3

I agree with this.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/05/26 02:33 PM
1

Hard agree. It's also tricky, ne? Especially in the era of the internet, since so much of what we enjoy is actively harmful to developing robust perseverance and social skills. Much balancing act going on over here. And it makes sense that many families with autistic kids have fewer resources or abilities or bandwidth than my family has to implement effective structure. It's a huge problem and to be honest we're seeing a lot of the effects in Gen Z.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/05/26 02:32 PM
4

'Blame' is the wrong word here. I'm autistic. I understand very well how easy it is to think you understand a subject and not pursue further inquiry, only to later be blindsided by discovering that understanding to be flawed or incomplete. It's frustrating when others mock that surprise by saying things like, 'well, wasn't it obvious?' or 'you should have realized' or whatever. Clearly it wasn't obvious to me, and maybe I should have realized but I didn't. My bad. I don't believe in blaming anyo…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/05/26 02:27 PM
6

Eh, sure you can? Assuming you want casual sex, and are aware it constitutes potential danger, the entire process is an exercise in vetting for someone where the likelihood of danger decreases from whatever the baseline threshold for a complete rando is down to a likelihood of danger that feels acceptable.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/05/26 02:20 PM
5

Dude. No. This is a bad take. Nobody is entitled to an orgasm, but looking at orgasm rates as a biological tautology rather than examining the entire ecostructure of how we handle sex as a culture is foolish. Our biology has been established a lot longer and is less likely to be flawed than our particular current moment's cultural soup.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/05/26 02:13 PM
4

Definitely not. It's one thread of a convoluted hot mess of cultural dynamics around sex, and everyone who is having sex is involved. I think citing it as a contributing factor to some other downstream phenomenon can be done without assigning fault.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/05/26 02:11 PM
3

Eh, I think you're reaching here. There's an aspect in which everyone's desire and arousal is an interplay between their internal state (how they feel, whether emotionally, physically whatever) and the external other who is fueling or amplifying those feelings (whether by their looks, behaviors, actual actions they are doing to the other, aspects of whom they are or their character, whatever). These are pretty much all the ingredients for sexual chemistry and apply to everyone who engages in sex…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/05/26 02:04 PM
11

This is the answer.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/05/26 01:39 PM
1

Everything counts as sex, ha.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/05/26 07:49 PM
1

more men seem willing to hookup compared to women, overall women seem to have larger and deeper social circles than men in general, giving them a deeper bench to access for potential dates via social networking men have to contend with the cultural norm of men initiating dating, which leaves them more incentivized to use apps vs. in-person approaches apps are static and photo-forward, which seems to generally suit men's attraction and arousal paradigms better than women's can't speak to this one…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/05/26 07:46 PM
0

I was going to joke, "they were all written 2000 years ago in Latin!" but I guess it wasn't really a secret.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/05/26 05:48 PM
4

There is a small overlap in the venn diagrams between men who are considerate and thoughtful and careful of others, and men who are not reasonably confident in their ability to behave in a way that meets their own standard. Those men seem to be the ones you are describing. The rest of the considerate, thoughtful, careful men are reasonably confident in their ability to behave well and continue dating.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/26 10:25 PM
1

Well sure, that can also be true. I think many blue pill debaters here would be happy to acknowledge that movement happens between descriptive and proscriptive modes. It is also true that blue pill debaters might disagree with either half of a statement framed like above. I have no doubt that sometimes descriptive statements get responded to with proscriptive claims like you said above, but I think pointing that out when it happens is a valid rebuttal. I'm also not sure that this is particularly…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/26 09:42 PM
9

You are correct in observing that discussions on PPD move freely (and sometimes unproductively) between descriptive and proscriptive modes. You are incorrect in thinking this is particularly a blue pill thing. All pills and really all points of view are guilty of this quite often. This is exacerbated by the fact that the subject matter most focused on here is both descriptive and proscriptive, intrinsically. 'Dating is X, therefore women should Y.' 'Women are X, therefore men should Y.' 'Male hu…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/26 09:26 PM
7

I think this is a great example of how different framing changes the 'most obvious' answer. Most people (myself included) seemed to come at the question asking 'which of the possible good outcomes is better?' and picking that. Moral came at the question asking 'which of the possible bad outcomes is better?' and choosing that. Which highlighted something I'd overlooked -- that in scenario B there is no guarantee that the ongoing relationship with this person would end up being a good one.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/26 09:03 PM
1

I dunno, in my imagination they are like people in terms of ethical alignment though probably nothing like us in physiology or psychology. Way outside the scope of your thought experiment though. 😅
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/26 08:59 PM
2

Well this premise sucks, haha. B, but everything about it is terrible. Why are these aliens monsters?!
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/26 08:30 PM
5

Valid. There's a reason most of us are not cut out to do cold call sales.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/26 05:21 PM
8

If only there were a universal woman!
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/26 05:20 PM
1

Pretty much, yeah. There is some nuance (some approach locations or styles are more favored than others in general, and some will be pretty much always disliked), but yeah. How things land depends on a bunch of variables, even if the approach is generally good and consistent overall. You're right that this has no moral dimension. Which is lovely, honestly. You check with some trusted advisors to make sure your approach style is solidly in the 'inoffensive and respectful' zone, then go forth and …
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/26 05:19 PM
–

Denied!
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/26 05:02 PM
2

It might be true that western passport bros are willing to accept an unemployed woman who cooks, but this group is a very small number of men overall. Generally they have plenty of money but few options for women in their home country for whatever reason, so their decision-making process is far from typical.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/26 04:29 PM
1

Sure, go for it.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/26 04:22 PM
–

I don't disagree that leftist narratives exist, I just disagree that they are all that the bluepill label covers.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/26 12:56 AM
–

Er, leftists and progressives famously squabble. It's a meme at this point.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/26 12:53 AM
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Ah, classic blunder. You mostly see leftist, progressive folks here on the bluepill side of debates because there are a lot of us on Reddit in general. But my eighty-year-old grandma who doesn't believe in divorce because it's against the will of God, and probably J.K. Rowling, and a bunch of random people at my bus stop who run the political gambit are also bluepill. They just don't show up here as often.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/26 12:51 AM
6

I find all this possessiveness toxic AF, but even if I were inclined to countenance it, the equivalence here is off. 'Advertising,' aka posting portraits on social media, dressing attractively in public, and/or going to clubs/bars, if anything is equivalent to 'window shopping' -- checking out social media portraits, checking out attractive people in public, and going to clubs/bars. Talking to other women in a suggestive/exploratory way is equivalent to talking to other men in the same way.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/26 12:38 AM
1

Dude. Practice your cookery and start making meals for your mom too.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/26 09:41 PM
3

But you said you aren't into traditional women, so this point isn't relevant to your situation.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/26 09:40 PM
6

Bro is cooked.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/26 09:38 PM
2

You would have had the same skill issues, you just would have been working through the early stages at the age of 8 or 12 or whatever. Maybe that would have been less annoying (probably just differently annoying to be honest), but you're not too old to learn.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/26 09:35 PM
2

Are you, yourself, a pre 2000s era man?! I release you from arbitrary bullshit gender norms. Go on, fly, be free.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/26 09:32 PM
1

Eh, a woman who doesn't want to learn how to cook is also a child. 'Womanchild' does sound stupid though.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/26 09:30 PM
1

Bruh, most everyone here grew up in the 1970s or later. We came of age in the era of television dinners, hot pockets, and/or microwavable entrees. Your assumption everyone here had a mother who cooked is doing some heavy lifting.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/26 09:26 PM
1

Are you a competent person, if you're flummoxed by a frying pan?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/26 09:24 PM
3

To be fair pretty much one person cooks in my home and that is my husband. We hosted my kid's birthday party this weekend which meant I was more involved in the menu planning and prep than average, and there were some inefficiencies and hiccoughs (in part because we had other things going on this weekend too so our communication game was not A+ on this). Anyway, some people subsist without ever cooking anything. There are a lot of potential ways to handle food provisioning.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/26 09:21 PM
–

Lol at the hamsters. 😅
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/26 08:18 PM
–

Yeah, I think there's probably room for it to work if both people are chill with solo time and the independent hobbies don't absorb to fill every moment of free time.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/26 08:15 PM
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I agree with this. I'm not into clubbing but I'm involved in other 'lifestyle hobbies' and it's similar. A couple really has to have other important time-intensive bonding activities or routines, or the time-intensiveness of lifestyle hobbies ends up eroding the relationship slowly.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/26 08:11 PM
–

Holy fuck. I literally, today, from looking up the PMOS renaming, learned that oligo-anovulation -- a condition that I have had pretty much my whole life -- has a name and exists in the medical literature. No doctor, NP, nurse-midwife, or nurse that has worked with me through three complex pregnancies over the last eighteen years, had ever told me this or even considered it worth looking into.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/26 01:51 AM
2

I think maybe you were a little unclear about what you meant to be contrasting the bare minimum with. I, too, got the impression romance, excitement, and anything emotionally intense were being held up in contrast to stability, calm affection, and mutual support. That might not have been what you were driving at though.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/26 01:42 AM
3

To be honest I don't like the 'bare minimum' phrasing because people use it to mean whatever they want it to mean. It's nebulous which means it's easily misinterpreted even by people who aren't already prone to disagreement. I think you have some nuggets of truth in here; there is a lot of value in not getting too invested in a romance too fast, in having your own satisfying, meaningful activities as well as spending time together with your partner, and generally in not becoming enmeshed to an u…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/26 01:31 AM
0

No, I added it to clarify that when those two things happen in tandem, a response that includes moralizing towards the latter makes sense despite the inappropriateness of moralizing the former.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/05/26 10:24 PM
2

Because it's extremely commonly juxtaposed with unhappily single men, the topic of this post. ETA: to clarify, I also don't really have any estimate of how many unhappily single men there are in general. Not that these groups are overlapping Venn diagrams (they're not). I don't believe my capacity to quantify a phenomenon is needed to weigh in on it.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/05/26 09:59 PM
9

People call Hiddleston and men similar to him as feminine and I don’t think that’s particularly true. They’re a more gentlemanly and softer flavor of masculine, but still fall into the ‘masculine man’ category none the less. This is a really good point. We really tend to flatten masculine archetypes here and then pretend that women are only attracted to the hero-athlete version of men.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/05/26 09:57 PM
1

To be honest I'm whatever the opposite of a Greek life oriented person is, so I have exactly 0 grounds to make statements about frat parties or fraternities in general. All my opinions about them are stereotypes based on in-group vs. out-group status and therefore I won't give my opinions any credence. They're biased and probably wrong.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/05/26 09:51 PM
0

My statement upthread that misogynistic men exist? I see people (who claim to be men) say things I find misogynistic in this subreddit and elsewhere often. I don't have any data to surmise how commonplace this is, in the world at large or in my particular bubble.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/05/26 09:48 PM
7

I would say that across the board, each of these three activities or characteristics probably enjoys a minority popularity among women, sure. I don't have a strong sense where exactly that lies for each of them, but <50% of women liking each seems totally plausible. Getting a little more into the weeds with this topic, we have to acknowledge that this presumably varies according to the demographic of women you interview -- not just along political lines, but in terms of regionality, age, etc. I'…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/05/26 09:41 PM
–

Jilling It In a Vacuum is my new post-industrial band name. 😅 But I follow you, actually.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/26 10:56 PM
3

Are you going to try to explain, or just leave me hanging?!
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/26 10:32 PM
0

Uh. If we agree that good men or women might like parties, then it stands to reason that some of the guys at frat parties are good guys, too. Also, "these bitches" doesn't make me real confident that you're a "good ass man."
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/26 10:23 PM
10

This sounds a bit like a game of Never Have I Ever.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/26 10:05 PM
–

Sure, but I guess I feel like there are women who would be perfectly happy to be bi, would rather they were, even, who describe enjoying lesbian porn scenes but being straight. It doesn't make sense to me that someone who has every reason to identify as bi would demur unless they were being honest.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/26 09:59 PM
2

I actually have no idea what this even means. I think you must mean something specific with "desiring a male body for itself" but I don't know what that is or how it would manifest in a 15-minute sex encounter. When you say "10 seconds of sex," again, what does that mean? 10 seconds is long enough for an extremely short handjob, or a tiny bit of oral, or something, which might be fun, but won't be satisfying to anyone involved. Whether that's better or worse than no sex at all is really a matter…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/26 09:56 PM
–

That's fair. I think I was reacting to the idea that there are all these men fantasizing about transwomen with their clothes off but still being hateful and making them unsafe in life. But your take is more optimistic and I appreciate that. Trans visibility has increased massively since 2010, you're completely right. It feels grim in the US right now in this regard but it's still objectively better than when I was a youth.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/26 09:50 PM
4

It's not an unpleasant chore, but personally, 15-minute sex on the regular would lead into a slow spiral of hating sex. That is not enough time for me to have a really great time.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/26 09:32 PM
–

Man, it really sucks that trans porn is so popular but this has almost no impact on how transwomen are actually treated out in the world.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/26 09:18 PM
–

I actually do think that the romantic vs. sexual identity is less aligned in a lot of people than we tend to think -- mainly in that I think many people are more binary in their romantic alignment even if they are more bi or flexible in their sexual attraction. I think the porn thing is overblown, though. I kinda feel like if someone is watching lesbian porn and doesn't want to take over for one of the ladies, she's probably not secretly a lesbian. Something else about the scene is landing right…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/26 09:16 PM
0

Honest question: do you think good men universally dislike parties? My experience has been that many people like parties of one sort or another, and their morality spans the gambit. Of course not everyone does, and this goes for women too. There are introverts and shy folks in every gender.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/26 08:55 PM
2

No. I don't really trust you to be pursuing this line of questioning in good faith, and in any case I don't feel comfortable putting forth a guess on a question with so many variables and no data to inform it.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/26 08:46 PM
3

I think there’s an amount of unspoken subtext in every human interaction. Super valid point. I run into issues with this in conversations with my spouse, a person I trust deeply to have my best interests at heart and vice versa. Small surprise it turns up here as well, in a space where everyone is primed to dissect the comments they reply to.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/26 08:38 PM
1

I couldn't possibly do anything but guess. It'd also be irrelevant.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/26 07:50 PM
1

That is an issue, but your post covered some additional ground.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/26 07:48 PM
1

Nope! I believe the correct response from me here is: Noice.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/26 01:44 AM
8

I can agree that making moral judgments against men simply on the basis of not being chosen for dating or sex is unfair. Being single, consensually or not, is not a moral question. It really weakens this argument to do things like put women's autonomy in scare quotes, though. It's not salient to your point and undermines your credibility. Unfortunately, there are men who are misogynistic, entitled, and so forth. Those qualities are often considered wrong and do see moral judgments made against t…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/26 01:02 AM
1

Possibly, or perhaps since the phrase "essential jobs that run society" has no real definition, OP should have defined his terms more clearly to facilitate discussion. Expecting everyone to intuit what he intended is ineffective.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/26 12:52 AM
2

To be honest and fair, friendly and helpful, considerate and caring, courageous and strong, responsible for what they say and do; to respect themselves and others, respect authority, use resources wisely, and make the world a better place.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/26 11:19 PM
1

I thought the red pill was all about radical acceptance of hard realities?
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/26 09:23 PM
14

If it really troubled me I think it's fine to ask about it, but my first thoughts as to why that might be would be the most boring-ass, logistical ones. 'The opportunity came up,' 'they had a family wedding happening there,' 'they were making more money then and could afford it,' 'their fear of long-distance air travel was less severe then.' To be clear, I am a person who has often overthought things, and taken things personally even when they had nothing to do with me, and interpreted meaning i…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/26 09:13 PM
16

Total sidebar but dude, hard same on 69. Great, I'm supposed to do two totally different things at once? Well now I'm gonna do both of them badly.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/26 09:06 PM
7

Mad kudos to you for saying what I tried to say but needed eight billion paragraphs to articulate.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/26 08:59 PM
17

This is one of those topics where I can understand why a person might feel worried about it -- yet I think the best course of action is to work on letting go or moving past those feelings. You did a fine job breaking down some of the possibilities of how this might arise. And as you noted, the only one that really represents a real, current issue is if they are actually into this sex act in the present moment, but don't want to do it with generi-you. Is this sex act a non-negotiable for you? Can…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/26 08:56 PM
5

I am constantly reminding myself that there are actual children here.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/26 08:00 PM
1

Exactly this. It's possible she's not actually that into him, sure, but shouldn't he be able to tell that from the passion of the sex they are having? Or if this is just a type of sex that's really important to him, it doesn't matter what her reason is -- they're not compatible long-term.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/26 07:59 PM
1

Wait, so what kind of source material are you using for this claim? I'm not necessarily sure you're wrong but I want more info.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/26 07:49 PM
5

Mmn, to be fair sometimes they do.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/26 07:44 PM
1

Sure, no one has to have any kind of sex they're not into. All these personal opinions about kinky sex being bad for relationships, or kinky sex not being better or whatever, are you assigning your own values onto other people's desires, though. After you just got done telling everyone that their desires don't have more standing than anyone else's and everyone should try to find partners they are compatible with.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/26 07:34 PM
3

Ha, I mainly agree. Probably the most accurate statement is more like: 'many people have a boundary that they do not want to be in a relationship where they and their partner do not treat each other thoughtfully and care about their happiness and satisfaction.' Everyone has and retains autonomy at all times, but even so, there are things we have to do. Not because we literally have to do them, but because the consequences of not doing them really suck.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/26 07:31 PM
3

It's more likely (and consistent with the data) that women are more likely to complain about their male partner wanting to do things that she's not into.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/26 07:24 PM
–

Victims do have responsibility for the risky decision they made beforehand, and over themselves in the aftermath of whatever happened. So we agree on that point. They do not have any responsibility for the thing that happened to them in the middle. I think OP is talking about blame, though. Or at least, OP is arguing that a victim who took fewer or no risks is a better victim than a victim who took more risks.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/26 06:52 PM
0

Ah, you're doing the same thing the OP did of assuming that "all essential jobs that run society" specifically meant, I dunno, blue-collar infrastructure jobs I guess? There are some baked-in assumptions here that OP didn't unpack and didn't really consider, is what I was saying. I'm not arguing about the gender distribution in various industries.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/26 06:47 PM
–

This is a great example of my feelings on this topic. IS it stupid to hike alone in the woods? Because I personally hike alone in the woods routinely, and so do many people. It constitutes a risk, but overall that risk is pretty small. No doubt it would be safer to hike with a partner or a group, but lots of people have limited or no access to a hiking buddy or a group, and in order to make that change they would have to give up something important to them (maybe hiking altogether, maybe the fre…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/26 06:36 PM
–

Because you're infantilizing women instead of expecting them to behave like adults. No. This principle applies to everyone. And adults have the right to make decisions about their risk tolerance, engage in risky behaviors when they choose, and still receive compassion instead of blame when they fall victim to the odds. There's probably some coherent argument to be made here that this principle fails at some point where the risk becomes egregiously high -- like, I don't know the exact risks of de…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/26 06:12 PM
1

Cool.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/26 11:26 PM
3

I do love gen Alpha. They know we're cooked, but they're having fun with it. It's depressing to see all the downward generational hate landing on gen Z these days though. Did we learn nothing from the Boomer--Millennial rift?!
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/26 07:21 PM
7

I have no need to draw some kind of distinction between a victim and a victim-ier victim (your "pure victim"). Your argument, if I understand it aright, is that women's arguments always deflect and circle around your argument to reassert victimization. My counterargument is that reasserting victimization is the correct response when someone is arguing a victim's responsibility to avoid being victimized. Asserting that someone who was victimized should have done differently in order to avoid bein…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/26 07:12 PM
–

Sorry, I was agreeing with you and pulled the first three actual porn categories that popped into my head. That probably wasn't at all clear.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/26 07:04 PM
–

I presume it's because prostates are baller, haha.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/26 06:57 PM
–

Haha, the real secret is that women's porn interests are all very specific niche items that absolutely no content is sorted by. Fuck off, Barely legal and group sex and lesbian, bring in voracious oral and guys doing that eyebrow thing and dude moans categories.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/26 06:56 PM
13

So, you took two topics in which there are obvious victims involved (someone being cheated on, someone being sexually assaulted at a frat party) and tried to argue that they weren't actually victimized, and received pushback on that. That doesn't seem odd. It sounds like you have an unpopular opinion that is definitionally victim-blaming, and that was correctly identified by the people you argued with. (I don't think the third example really fits the pattern, and I'm not clear where the victimiz…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/26 06:51 PM
11

Agreed. Everyone is trying to thread the needle between doing nothing to protect themselves, and being so risk-averse that they avoid doing things entirely. But different people have different sensitivities to risk and different tolerances to risk, in addition to different capacities to assess risk accurately. The entire question of risk mitigation is not as clear-cut as OP suggests.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/26 06:43 PM
10

I think you didn't think this one through very hard. All the essential jobs? All the jobs that run society? All of them?! ....are you sure that's what you meant? ETA: I'm very curious how old one has to be to qualify as an "old man" under this premise. I have a bet going.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/26 06:34 PM
2

Ha, neither is quite correct but maybe Sovereign is closest? But gender binary is the thing in this sub so I don't take it personally. I appreciate you making an effort (and this dragony exchange has been fun!). 🖤
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 11:10 PM
1

Godsdamn. Everyone loses their fucking mind that nonbinary folks exist but then we get this 'hur dur a third gender!?' drivel? Maybe we need to bring back the N-count threads -- they were saving us from the true lunatic fringe.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 11:00 PM
2

Haha, I accept this.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 10:18 PM
2

I just had a mini hyperfocus last week on the disaster of inbreeding that was the Habsburg dynasty, I cannot agree.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 09:21 PM
1

Haha, I appreciate your commitment. I agree dragons are delightful but you can keep your sketchy Targaryan bloodline. 💀
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 08:32 PM
3

Yeah, the fundament is honestly pretty similar biologically regardless of sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 07:58 PM
5

This -- I also think a lot of people are more switchy than exclusively dom or sub. Which sort of sounds like it would be easier to navigate but ends up being tricky still if you're after a LTR because you have to get the proportions to line up as well.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 07:53 PM
6

Look, this is a debate. You can't just say a phrase, have it stand in for a fully developed argument, and expect people to respond to it as if it was the full argument. I am not going to argue against what I suppose your argument to be. If you don't want to debate, that's okay, but please be direct about it.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 07:11 PM
4

You'll have to develop that idea.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 06:45 PM
9

Women are to blame whenever they do something wrong, but not wanting to date someone isn't something wrong that anyone is to blame for. Sometimes you can do everything right and still lose.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 06:10 PM
2

Oh yeah, agreed. Definitely not just a men thing.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 05:55 PM
5

This. Obviously people are attracted to hot people. If this wasn't known there would be no point in adults, media, etc. preaching the importance of whom someone is inside.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 05:46 PM
5

Every time someone writes this awful euphemism for pedophiles, the gods kill a least weasel. Type real words. Please. Think of the least weasels.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 05:40 PM
3

...but there were always some good nuggets in there Yeah, I think this is true about a lot of ideologies and is part of how they gain a following, honestly. The nuttiest stuff is the most off-putting (and also the most hotly-debated) but there are often nuggets of truth or good advice even in terrible belief systems. I am interested in weird ideologies and cult behaviors in general and see this dynamic over and over again all over the place.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 05:27 PM
10

Kind of, but you're overlooking somewhat that whining about treatment of fat women turned into real discussion about the treatment of fat people in society and consensus-building that it was a real issue that enough people wanted to see change that activism made some impact. All of which to say, it isn't just complaining that effects social change. Complaining can prompt discussion but building consensus behind an idea is important too.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 04:29 PM
7

I agree with most of this. To be honest gamification and focus on inputs instead of outputs is my personal go-to for driving changed behavior. And yes, hard agree on most of the guys here not being ready to change and risk psychological safety. I hope that doesn't sound disparaging, as I don't mean it to be. But you can't change until you're mentally ready to change.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 04:26 PM
4

Coming right up!
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 04:20 PM
9

......this doesn't make a lick of sense.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 04:17 PM
4

Honestly it's just been a ton of practice, learning to notice what I'm doing. Not doing it (or at least not sharing my ideas) is pretty much a mental 'sitting on my hands' sort of deal, haha. For myself I find it helps diffuse tension if I name it out loud when I notice it -- I'll literally say, "oh, shit, I started trying to problem solve; sorry, that maybe wasn't what you were looking for here." It relieves the other person of having to clarify what they wanted and opens space for them to say,…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 04:06 PM
5

Same, I've actively worked on that, haha. Luckily my partner is the same way so we've both gotten pretty decent at catching ourselves out trying to fix when the other person just wants to vent, and are both chill with being called on it by each other. It helps!
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 03:59 PM
12

Booo to her. For what it's worth, kudos to you for doing the traveling you want to do and not waiting for a partner.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 03:55 PM
7

Women aren't bad. Men aren't bad. Women and men and enbies and everyone contain capacity for good and evil. That's the human condition. That's the whole thing.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 03:54 PM
1

I'll drink to that.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 03:53 PM
6

Women as a class don't agree on much of anything. They also have no designated spokesperson. This desire is functionally impossible to see met.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 03:52 PM
14

I have a ton of tolerance for people who get stuck on the 'how?!' portion of self-improvement or life-improvement or whatever. The how can be confusing! Improvement is hard! It's reasonable to ask for help! The really frustrating thing is defeatism ('it's impossible to reach my goal so why bother even trying') and people who want there to be One Easy Trick to achieving whatever it is. Most improvement is incremental. Most of the time it's also multifactoral. You (general-you) are probably going …
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 03:49 PM
34

I feel like everyone gets maybe 1-2 'whining tokens' from me in, I dunno, a week. They recharge over time. But whining has a cooldown period, you gotta use it sparingly.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 03:42 PM
3

I do think more people would steal if there were no consequences (probably more useful to say 'if it were not illegal,' but either way). But most people recognize consequences beyond legal ones, and see personal benefit from ethical behavior aside from not being punished by the law. For example, I don't loot stores because it is beneficial to me to act in alignment with my own ethical code (internal consistency feels good), and because I prefer to live in a world where taking things freely isn't…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 03:39 PM
6

There is definitely a contingent of men here who believe women don't really feel sexual attraction in any meaningful way, they just pretend when they feel it's advantageous.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 03:14 PM
1

Question, because I generally have found you to be reasonable and rational in your debates here, and I think you would have sources on this -- do we have even moderately good data regarding what percentage of men offend when considering the broad range of sexual crimes and/or misbehaviors that fall short of criminality -- sexual assault, harassment, groping, spiking drinks, coerced consent, not stopping sex when consent is revoked, etc.? I agree that the percentage of men who are violent offende…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 03:12 PM
7

Oddly I find I agree with this (at least that it is an aspect of the dynamic). Weird corrolary but I see this as well in regards to child death. Many people really struggle with how to process the horror of seeing someone else lose a child, and contemplating it happening to them, so if there is any possible flaw or mistake in the parent that they can point to in order to show that they 'deserved' it, they will.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 02:56 PM
9

Can I put you and the guys here who believe women are all asexual and use sex purely transactionally in a room together and watch the discussion?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 02:52 PM
-1

I'm not necessarily talking about men who are very promiscuous, just the dark triad men mentioned upthread. I think they can see repercussions for those behaviors, though of course it varies.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 02:46 PM
2

Sure, but it was a quippy analogy, not an exact 1:1 correspondence. My broad point is that doing wrong is often more effective than doing right, but we (mostly) advise people how to improve their effectiveness while staying on the side of right-doing.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 02:40 PM
3

I think (super broadly speaking) women's arousal doesn't fire off from seeing a hot body in isolation. Women tend to want to see how he moves, how he smiles, how he talks, and so on. Obviously women like attractive men but it's one piece of a total package, not the thing itself.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 01:50 PM
5

It's a lot smaller than that, sorry. Bro upthread probably doesn't mean 'the top 12% of men' and probably means more like, 'Matt, Phil, Jaden, Rob, Jack, and Gregory.'
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 01:41 PM
16

And bank robbers make more per hour than the vast majority of people, yet we don't advise people to go out and become bank robbers in order to pay the bills.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 01:24 PM
3

I think a lot of men who do have sex still don't think of sex with an abundance mentality. They prefer for it to be relatively rare and difficult to get, because they have a lot of ego attached to the fact that they are successful in this arena. They like that they have sex, but they also like that they are winning relative to other men. If sex was more freely available they wouldn't be able to feel like their sex-having was an accomplishment.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 01:15 PM
1

Well, I think more women are open to long-term FWB than hookups. There are also a lot of women interested in LTRs but not particularly worried about marriage. "Almost all" seems to be a real overstatement here.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 12:25 PM
2

This is a great conversation and I appreciate you being willing to engage thoughtfully with these ideas. I also just love some media analysis and it's fun to get to do it through a gender studies lens. I'll have to come back later when I get a break to reply properly on a computer -- we've covered too much ground for me to reply coherently on mobile.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 12:16 PM
1

No, being in a secure relationship mirrors the security of belonging to a tribe. I don't mean that prehistoric people wanted romantic relationships the same way modern people do. I'm arguing that 'belonging' is the primary security need that being in a relationship meets. It would be interesting to test that out, sure! I don't really agree with your hypothesis but that isn't surprising.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 12:08 PM
3

I don't fully grok what you think I omitted, but let me try this: If the main benefit of short-term relationships or hookups is sex, and a significant number of women find that they have the best sex in relationships of other sorts, they would lack an incentive to have short-term relationships or hookups.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 06:44 AM
1

I don't think that the security need you describe is the most powerful motivating force for women to seek relationships, though. I think relationships first and foremost meet emotional security needs: needs for acceptance, communion, and belonging. If you want to look at this through an evolutionary biology lens, belonging and community represented a graver, more existential threat to an individual in a prehistoric setting than most other abstract threats. Modern humans might not actually starve…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 06:40 AM
2

Hmm, well, I don't think men would fantasise about that. I really think the most obvious male-focused wish fulfillment fantasies are porn (in which very hot women meet their every sexual desire) and certain types of power-up fantasies (less so the type where they encounter setbacks and slow, more normalized growth and increased skill, but more the type where they get magical or technological upgrades to suddenly be competitive at a much higher level than previously). I'm not making any sort of m…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 06:28 AM
6

Well yeah, that's what makes it a fantasy, right? It offers relief from an unpleasant reality of life. There are lots of books about women striving and working for what they want, whether they ultimately fail or succeed. But genre romance isn't that. Can I ask you about the Titanic thing? What makes it your favorite film? Most people (and to be honest particularly most men) seem to have a fairly low opinion of it, but I think it's underrated.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 04:48 AM
1

To be fair I think being spoiled is basically the theme of genre romances. Not necessarily financially, and the better ones have other themes as well, but I do think a key aspect of the genre and part of what makes it enduringly popular is that it indulges the fantasy of being treated really well and having all one's desires (emotional, sexual, possibly material) met. There is lots of literature about women undertaking personal growth and change narratives, but that isn't the main focus of genre…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 04:33 AM
6

.....you can't just be out here developing trusting relationships, that's crazy talk! Oh right, that is how relationships work. Time to get off the internet again.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 04:19 AM
3

I think women believe that men's motivation for a long-term relationship comes primarily from the same place that hers does: enjoying being together with him and not wanting to be apart. Wise people would also evaluate their dreams, goals, lifestyle preferences, values, etc. to make sure they are compatible as a team.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 04:13 AM
3

I don't even know if I think you're wrong per se about the rich Chad of romance novels (if I'm reading wish-fulfillment fantasy why not include material comforts that I can't enjoy in real life too, while we're at it?!), but this really makes me want to do a vast analysis of genre romances to get some real data to crunch. I mean I don't want to have to read that many genre romances. But I want the spreadsheet.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 04:10 AM
4

How do you account for women wanting LTRs more than men then? All else aside, women on average seem to prefer sex in the context of a trusting relationship rather than a one-off hookup to a greater degree than men on average (presumably some of that is cultural, but also female sexual pleasure seems to often improve with repeated encounters with the same partner).
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 04:06 AM
1

No, that's my point. Rich people don't have inherently better genetics, they have inherently better environments. They have variable genetics (like everyone else) and variable behaviors (like everyone else). Talent exists, and so does training. The existence of one doesn't negate the value of the other. Lacking one, you can compensate with the other, but the most successful people generally have some of both.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/26 02:57 AM
3

I don't think this is a taboo subject particularly, but I have a hard time figuring out what the debate is supposed to be. People who date people who are toxic or shitty or just a bad fit probably should choose someone better next time. I don't think this is terribly contentious, and it doesn't release the toxic or shitty person from responsibility for their own bad behavior.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/26 09:11 PM
1

....you resurrected a two-month-old thread to yell at me about CICO?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/26 06:42 PM
1

I would convene panels of experts.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/26 06:39 PM
1

I also read a lot of books, so well met. There are a variety of ways to be smart so for the purposes of this discussion let's just keep it to smart at academic learning. No, not everyone inevitably retains information with enough repetitions. Also, how many repetitions would be necessary would be variable. Also, retention of information is one part of learning and succeeding academically, but comprehension and ability to synthesize ideas is also critical, especially at the university level.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/26 06:34 PM
12

Cheating situations also almost always file as no fault. Proving fault as grounds to divorce is a massive pain in the ass, is more expensive, and involves much more interpersonal fallout. There's not really much upside.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/26 01:24 AM
1

How do you know? I personally don't think most people are that shallow, but I could be wrong.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/26 12:54 AM
2

Oh hey, I didn't know you were in nursing school! Badass.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/26 12:35 AM
2

Oof, most of this thread your opinions are dead wrong, but I just had to weigh in about "getting straight As in college by not drinking partying dating or making friends is something anyone can do." This is just wildly delusional. Not anybody can get straight As, regardless of the rest. Some people work extremely hard and fail classes. Some people can't even get accepted into college. Some people are legitimately very stupid, man. You sound like a smart person. The thing you have to come to grip…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/26 12:32 AM
1

Right. It used to be there was scarcity of calories, and/or money to buy calories. Now there is abundance of calories at low prices, and the scarcity is in time, and higher-quality or healthier calories that are behind a higher paywall, and what for a lack of a better word I'll call willpower. Not in the sense that people should 'just eat less!' but in the sense that it requires ongoing attention and effort to restrain yourself from doing something that would be pleasant and satisfy a strong bio…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/26 12:15 AM
1

In that case, why did you ask upthread why nobody brings up toxic women here? You just argued that they aren't important.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/26 12:00 AM
5

There is a substantial difference though between 'I need to control everything' and 'I need to be careful not to be controlled by someone.'
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/26 11:56 PM
0

Of course not. You have to dig a lot deeper than that. I'm not expert and certainly don't think I could fix the world with just my ideas anyway, but for this I might focus on things that increase intracommunity engagement with less friction as a starting place. And in general anything that improves the baseline of financial and personal security to free up time and mental energy to focus on other pursuits is likely to improve quality of life generally.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/26 11:40 PM
7

Oh no, I have to disagree on that. Some women definitely wield 'gay' as a perjorative to men who fail to meet their expectations in some way.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/26 09:43 PM
2

Huh. This is an interesting theory honestly.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/26 09:37 PM
4

I almost agree with your title statement, with one small change: Women are scared of not having the power in dating. I don't think most people perceive dating and romance through a lens of dominance, of jockeying for the upper hand. But I do agree that women tend to be aware of the fragility of their agency in life, and that dating is one of the most common ways to find it circumscribed, and to be accordingly cautious.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/26 09:33 PM
1

I don't see it, sorry. It appears not everybody feels that way.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/26 09:13 PM
2

Bootstrap stories are very inspiring and often demonstrate individual excellence. However, when we look at a population, we have to recognize that a population is always going to be average and distributed across a bell curve of excellence, mediocrity, and failtasticness. When we design systems for society, we need to build them in such a way that the vast majority of people (which includes a large part of the below-average people) are able to succeed. A system in which only the uppermost excell…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/26 09:09 PM
10

I think possibly girls have an increased tendency towards cooperation compared to boys on average -- not necessarily that they lack competitiveness, but they are more inclined to channel that competitiveness through approved channels instead of bucking systems.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/26 09:04 PM
3

I mean, as someone who's not attracted to women, nor a severely obese woman, I can't really speak to this personally on any level. I did run a Google search for images of women at 5'5" and 240 lbs to see whether that seemed plausible to me, though, and to my non-attracted eye there were some who looked like they would get male attention. I'll defer to the folks here who are actually attracted to women, though.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/26 02:29 AM
5

I understand the differences, but to be honest for a woman of my height, the obese designation spans from 180-230 lbs, and severely obese is 240 lbs upward. I agree that a woman at that size would consider herself fat (unless she had some really significant muscle mass body comp stuff going on), but there are definitely women 240+ lbs at that height whose proportions are such that they would still be attractive to a sizable number of men. If you have a favorable waist-hip ratio it's not unusual.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/26 04:46 PM
3

Look, I see what you are talking about here, and ultimately you and the other commenter are on different pages. There are really different discussions to be had about 'expected gender roles' in early dating and 'expected gender roles' in a long-term committed relationship. Both of them are discussions worth engaging in, but they don't interact that much with each other. I think that people who try to connect them strongly are doing neither discussion any favors.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/26 04:38 PM
2

Well sure. We started this line of argument with a homeless drug addict so I assumed we were talking about a person much closer to that end of the 'success spectrum.' I don't know you personally; I have no specific opinions about whether (or how) you should improve, or for what reasons.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/26 04:33 PM
1

Yep!
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/26 04:32 PM
0

This seems like a foolish argument. Although I'm sure this sometimes happens, surely the likelihood of a beautiful woman having sex with a successful man is much higher than with a homeless drug addict. Therefore a logical person would conclude that improving himself likewise improves his odds of landing the sex partner he wants.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/26 12:44 AM
1

This is because the topics debated here usually don't center around 'why don't men want to date women?!', but the opposite. Toxic women certainly exist and suck, but they don't have much impact on other women's dating preferences and choices.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/26 12:37 AM
3

Yeah, everything is hyperbolize to the Nth degree.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/26 12:25 AM
1

Again, I really think it depends. I live in a more socially conservative part of the US, it wouldn't be odd to see this play out here as I describe. I assume it might be different elsewhere.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/26 12:24 AM
0

I disagree, but if that's so then I guess we can deal with it.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/26 12:21 AM
1

Oh, is this claim limited to this sub? That wasn't apparent.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/26 12:15 AM
2

This is highly contextual though. In a progressive online space like Reddit? Probably so. In real life at the bbq? Not so much.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 09:33 PM
1

Doggy style oral sex?!? 😱
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 09:32 PM
1

These high value men must be exhausted. Poor dears.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 09:31 PM
–

Okay, this makes sense -- but I'm not convinced most people would actually like for random strangers to assume that they are ugly as hell, either. Basically any way you slice it, random strangers making negative assumptions about someone on the internet is going to hurt feelings.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 09:16 PM
6

I thought women settled as they get older and that's where betabux dudes come in. Is that not what you're advocating?
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 09:04 PM
5

I understand your position as to why disproving that argument is a worthwhile thing to spend time on. In fact in that sense I suppose I agree, since I also disagree with it. I think it might be on OP to more clearly outline the context in which the original post should be viewed as a rebuttal (though to be so fair, I'm tired AF today and might simply have overlooked that in the OP. In which case, that's on me). I also appreciate you bringing quantifiable data in to support your argument about th…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 08:55 PM
4

Okay, but I straight up do not know what you mean exactly. You replied to a three-hours-old top-level comment, and Monochromatic Prism and I argued a bunch of things across several replies apiece downthread. I don't know which part(s) you agreed with or are crowing about.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 08:47 PM
2

You said: Men who have high body counts are shamed and chastised publicly while the women were “just discovering themselves”. But you didn't support this claim with evidence, and I'd like to see it.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 08:43 PM
9

What are you talking about?
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 08:40 PM
1

You first; then maybe I'll do the same.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 07:50 PM
–

Oh yeah, for sure. Lots of sucktastic women. Minus the ad hominem, though.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 07:44 PM
5

Ye Good Olde Days TM
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 07:42 PM
3

This is definitely a thing that happens, but it's just one of a handful of common results. How fast someone moves on (either sexually or romantically) after a relationship ends depends on a bunch of factors. Things like: were they done with the relationship when it ended, or taken by surprise by the breakup? do they use casual sex or romantic entanglements as a distraction from emotional pain? are they generally an in-demand dating or sex partner, or not? do they like casual sex in general? do t…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 07:31 PM
1

The day that this subreddit realizes that BP =/= liberal will be a glorious one. Your lips to God's ears, sister.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 07:24 PM
1

In 2026, society includes a robust sex-positive 'you go' culture, a strong 'traditional values' slut-shaming culture, and a variety of positions in between. All at the same time. This claim is wild though unless you can provide some evidence of men being shamed for their promiscuity in significant ways.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 07:22 PM
6

I was playing a mixtape yesterday that my uncle put together back in the early '70s and 'Cherry Hill Park' by Billy Joe Royal came on. I was all, 'damn, I totally forgot about this 'man I miss the local slut' top 40s song from 1969.' 💀
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 07:13 PM
1

I don't absolutely reject the usefulness of self-report data, just clarifying that we have to be careful reading too much into the results here. In particular I think it's important to note that 'disagreeable' here doesn't mean 'unpleasant to interact with' the way I initially took it to. Why did you bring up men vs. women's self-report reliability? Does it change the argument in any way?
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 06:49 PM
5

Okay. So if I understand you correctly, you are arguing that OP's post should be understood as a rebuttal to this common argument that 'men are the whole problem with dating,' by arguing, 'no actually men are basically fine'? I don't really disagree with that because I never agreed with the common argument 'men are the whole problem with dating' in the first place. I didn't respond to that argument in my response to OP because that argument never crossed my mind, because it sounds stupid. I resp…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 06:47 PM
1

To distill the truth by testing our ideas against the logical rhetoric of others.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 06:35 PM
6

To be clear, 'disagreeableness' within the scope of this study reflects the subjects' self-reported beliefs on four questions regarding how much they care about others and their feelings. I actually think it's an interesting study and worth reading, but these results don't say anything about how pleasant these men are to interact with.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 06:34 PM
22

I think it's also reasonable to note that since women have obligate fat storage as secondary sex characteristics, the actual physique of an overweight woman is probably more likely to appear appealingly shapely vs. an equally overweight man. Men effectively have biologic bias to appreciate fat reserves in the female physique in a way that isn't mirrored in the reverse.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 06:07 PM
5

Since you are on this forum, I suspect you already knew this was the answer. Sure -- I wasn't suggesting that there are no issues in the dating market (as evidenced by producing several possible issues). My statement conveyed that there is no consensus on what the issues in the dating market are, nor on what the cause(s) of them are. I think you are overstating by presenting this as a clear and consistent thesis statement on which everyone (the BP, feminism, and women on social media) agrees. It…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 05:59 PM
2

Apparently BMI ranges don't differentiate between men and women, so both. And yeah, I'm very aware of the limitations of BMI as a metric, but it's what the study linked above was using.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 05:20 PM
17

I suppose I am ignoring that thesis statement because I don't agree with it, or even necessarily agree that it is the primary argument put forward by the BP(?), feminism, or even women on social media. To be entirely frank I'm not sure what "the issues in the dating market" even are in this context. Is it the rise of harmful black pill rhetoric? Is it dating apps and how much most people dislike them? Is it lonely single men? I'm sure single women would like there to be more quality single men t…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 05:17 PM
11

To be honest I think it's a phrase that became a meme so a lot of women know/say it, but I see it used mainly as an exasperated response to some particular case of bad behavior on the part of some man. It comes out in an eye-rolling "Look at this shit" sense, similar to how queers respond to examples of weird heterosexual bullshit with, "Oof, the straights are not okay."
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 05:09 PM
9

Sure, understood. I think in that case the question really comes back to: is it necessary for a person to only have standards in a partner that they themself can meet? This has been debated here a lot and I tend to fall on the pragmatic side of thinking it sorts itself out in reality. The abstract is more philosophical but less relevant. Actually the more I think about it, if men were (broadly) on a better footing than women, wouldn't that mean that men (broadly) would be in the position to need…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 05:06 PM
2

Leaving this here in the automod because I went looking for the details on the obesity study, because I was curious what 'obese' and 'severly obese' meant here. Obese = BMI of 30 - 39.9 Severely obese = BMI of 40+ To put some general stats alongside those numbers, here are some frames of people who fall into the obese range: 5'2", 170 lbs 5'2", 210 lbs 5'7", 200 lbs 5'7", 250 lbs 6'0", 230 lbs 6'0", 290 lbs 6'5", 260 lbs 6'5", 330 lbs Corresponding frames of people who fall into the severely obe…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 04:57 PM
15

Somebody brought up something regarding this phrase in another thread that crystalized a thought for me. I think when women say this phrase, they understand "the bar" as being behavioral, exclusively -- that is, only related to how a person acts, carries themselves, presents -- things they do. I don't think women actually fail to understand that intrinsic physical traits also impact dating success, but it seems that this phrase only comes out when discussing men's behavior, not their general att…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 04:49 PM
18

This is an interesting topic, and I love that you brought data, truly. It's going to be difficult to debate comprehensively because you touched on so many different avenues of improvement. As my overall general response, let me say -- I think fundamentally no one is required to "do better," and people who say this as a critique or some kind of general call to action are making really vague statements that nobody is required to take seriously. If someone is happy with themselves and their life, t…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 04:45 PM
1

I don't know enough about SpongeBob to affirm or refute this, but I'd not dismiss it out of hand.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 04:26 PM
3

I agree with some of your points in that I also think men should be able to determine what 'masculinity' means to them and how they wish to perform it. I don't think that absolves them from being (or striving to be) good humans, which is something I expect every person to be working on. The thing I think you're missing is that when people talk about "positive masculinity" they are holding it up as a gesture of goodwill to others whose thinking about gender and masculinity is more rigid than mine…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 04:16 PM
4

What if they just want to treat women as equals because they believe it's the right thing to do?
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 04:09 PM
–

Eh. In the absence of specificity people generally tend to assume negative aspersions don't apply to them anyway. This is supposed to be a space for debating, not educating the masses, anyway.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 04:05 PM
1

Agreed. To be honest I think our cultural loss of mystery/privacy around sex does them no favors here. 'A gentleman never kisses and tells' philosophy leaves an air of possibility that can never be confirmed nor denied, casting everyone in the best possible light whichever state is more preferred.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/26 04:03 PM
–

Oooh, shout-out to the 1930s vintage representation! Sorry about the conservative vintage values folks though.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/26 11:59 PM
–

Your style sounds awesome.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/26 11:48 PM
1

This is an interesting point. I think OP unfortunately left their thesis a little too broad so people are reading into it with their own interpretations (which have gone a bunch of different directions). I think 'vigor' is a really good description actually of positive energetic activity.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/26 11:46 PM
2

Shit, I need a plant club. Is there a remedial plant club?!?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/26 11:31 PM
–

The trenchcoat mafia thing predates most of the guys here but yeah, there have always been moral panic about 'what the young men are doing.' The internet only exacerbated an ongoing phenomenon.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/26 09:54 PM
7

I think it's worth observing that you introduced the word "addicted" to this thread -- the poster upthread that you responded to merely said "people tend to enjoy [...] seeking novel stimulation." Which is much less hyperbolic and seems more defensible as a position. EDIT to correct the quote for accuracy
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/26 06:50 PM
–

I have issue with what you said, because I think you are being disingenuous in this comment thread. It seemed to me like the point of your post was actually to assign blame, and perhaps to withhold sympathy from anyone who had a bad experience dating an asshole. I summarized my disagreement above.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/26 05:53 PM
–

So what's to debate? The women who date assholes mostly also would like to stop dating them. Literally nobody is going to argue against that advice. It seemed to me like the point of your post was actually to assign blame, and perhaps to withhold sympathy from anyone who had a bad experience dating an asshole.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/26 05:45 PM
–

Okay. I don't think anyone is actually arguing, "women should date assholes!" though, right? This doesn't seem to have much to do with what the best course of action would be (pretty much everyone agrees), but rather how to treat people if or when they date an asshole anyway.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/26 05:13 PM
2

I think that processes that are good for the kids are by extension good for society. The larger percentage of kids growing up into happy, healthy, functional adults, the better off for everyone.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/26 05:10 PM
2

Info: are you talking about a specific age range of women in this thread? Or is this an opinion that is meant to apply to all women?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/26 05:04 PM
1

I think we might need more explanation of what you consider hyperactive, and how it differs from more 'normal' levels of activity. I also disagree strongly that being constantly active and never not doing something is a particularly masculine trait. I associate this tendency with people who are prodictivity-oriented and feel guilt if anything is undone or resting, and in my life that has more often been women (generally older women, mothers and aunts and so on). I think it's probably gender-neut…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/26 04:54 PM
3

You seem to be taking this in extremely binary terms. "Should" doesn't really come in to pursuits that are for leisure and enjoyment. You can have 15 different works in progress if you want (I know, you don't want). You can also just focus on one thing at a time. The point is that there isn't one true way to do leisure activities.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/26 04:48 PM
–

What is the purpose of this argument? Meaning: if we all agree that you're right, now what? What outcome depends on this point of view? From where I stand, I don't think anyone is "to blame" for their attractions. People do have responsibility for their choices and actions. This includes people choosing to date people they can see are bad or bad for them, and people who do bad things.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/26 04:45 PM
2

Yeah, that seems perfectly possible. To be honest, I think a lot of the work of maturing and calibrating these sensitivities is working out what is a genuine, personal boundary ('I will not be happy/satisfied/comfortable with X dynamic') and what is a discomfort that represents a place for necessary personal growth ('I don't like/am uncomfortable with X dynamic, but that doesn't mesh with my personal values and I'm trying to figure out how to sit with that discomfort and learn how to behave more…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/26 04:32 PM
3

You're framing 'caring' and 'indifference' as though they are opposites on a spectrum, but ignoring the obvious third option. Nobody* wants their partner to control their behavior or be endlessly critical. Indifference is preferable to that. But what people mostly want from someone they are in a relationship with is affirmation and support -- they want you to like what they like, either for itself, or because you love to see them thriving. Of course people are looking for that option over indiff…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/26 07:26 PM
2

It's just classic stoicism. "Whatever this is that I am, it is a little flesh and breath, and the ruling part. [...] But as if you were now dying, despise the flesh. It is blood and bones and a network of nerves, veins, and arteries woven together. [...] You are an old man so no longer let this be a slave, no longer be pulled by the strings like a puppet to unsocial movements, no longer either be dissatisfied with your present lot, or shrink from the future." ~Meditations, Marcus Aurelius
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/26 07:17 PM
9

No, Machiavellian philosophy is 'don't rely on cavalry; horses are crazy beasts and will betray you.'
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/26 07:04 PM
4

Bro, you know autism presents in a variety of constellations, yeah? Also the idea of Chad is context-dependent anyway, because nobody has access to the entire human population at once. If we believe in Chad, we have to acknowledge the existence of a redneck Chad, a frat house Chad, a nerd Chad, a disc golf Chad, a regular golf Chad, a yacht club Chad, a Burning Man Chad, and on and on.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/26 07:02 PM
2

It's true.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/26 06:58 PM
8

The funniest part of this is that Titanic doesn't really lionize emotional dependence, either. Jack certainly doesn't seem to need Rose. And all evidence suggests Rose doesn't need him either in the long term. He acts as a catalyst for self-growth for her and that's it. Annnd we're back!
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/26 05:24 PM
1

Hahaha, bonjour!
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/26 05:08 PM
–

Jack Dawson, OG manic pixie dream boy.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/26 05:07 PM
9

Look, this is a semantic argument and that's fine, but it's not going anywhere except around in a circle. People who use the word 'date' to include 'going on a date with someone' would agree with the question upthread -- they needed to date 100 people to find their husband. People who use the word 'date' to mean 'being in a relationship with' would disagree -- they needed to be in a relationship with 2 people before finding their husband. All of this is perfectly clear from the top-level comment…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/26 04:47 PM
–

The funniest part of this is that Titanic doesn't really lionize emotional dependence, either. Jack certainly doesn't seem to need Rose. And all evidence suggests Rose doesn't need him either in the long term. He acts as a catalyst for self-growth for her and that's it.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/26 04:42 PM
1

Variable ratio reinforcement isn't a mental illness, it's a standard principle of behavioral study.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/26 02:19 PM
1

Hilariously an aroused vagina is probably both loose and tight. Loose because tenting, tight because engorged with blood. Schrödinger's vagina!
/r/PurplePillDebate03/05/26 09:56 PM
1

Sure, but I'm talking specifically about the psychological mechanisms that induce people to keep pulling the handle on a slot machine, etc.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/05/26 05:32 PM
1

....we just have flight attendants of all genders. They don't even empathize or nurture air passengers. They demonstrate seat belt safety and serve drinks.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/26 09:17 PM
2

I hesitate to share this thought because I usually stay out of detailed OLD discussions -- but it occurs to me that they may draw on the same 'gambling' feedback loop that helps keep people hooked on scrolling social media. You run into a lot of dross, but occasionally you find something (or someone) amazing! And we know that intermittent unpredictable rewards are the most compelling kind in order to produce more compulsive play.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/26 09:12 PM
3

Shania Twain told us all this in the '90s!
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/26 09:04 PM
1

Yeah, agreed. I simplified a lot, haha.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/26 09:01 PM
3

Providing for and caring for children are both necessary. Kids need money for supplies and people to comb their hair and change their diapers and make sure they wash behind their ears with soap and make impressed noises over their LEGO builds and teach them how to run a lawn mower and keep them from parachuting off the upstairs landing and so on. Taking care of the home environment is also important and can be construed as caring for kids indirectly, but it's the most direct, hands-on parts of c…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/26 08:54 PM
4

I think there's truth in this, but I also think there's something going on with men who might be perceived as cool and carefree by others, but they themselves feel like losers. I'm not sure the experience of this hinges completely on outside perception.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/26 08:03 PM
6

Solid points. I tend to forget that meninism sounds at all like feminism since I only see it written down.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/26 07:36 PM
2

I genuinely don't think most people think this way. Maybe I'm wrong, but damn.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/26 05:20 PM
14

That's a bold statement, considering how tricky happiness research is and how sparse our long-term historical data on it is.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/26 05:13 PM
6

Yeah, my sense is that the attitudes around this started shifting a long time ago and have been moving for awhile, with that shift accelerating with the social media uptake. I'd love more data about relative singleness rates in men over a hundred years. I think they are definitely louder now (as we all are), but I'm not sure whether the percentage is dramatically bigger as well.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/26 05:10 PM
5

That's no rationale. Can you provide a reason other than "because?"
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/26 05:05 PM
2

I personally want reciprocal acts of service.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/26 05:04 PM
2

Dude got promoted! ....my guess from watching Downton Abbey is that maybe the male equivalent would be a "bang footman?" ..."bang butler" has a much better cadence, you're right.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/26 05:03 PM
1

Nah, you can do it. I promise. There are no special lady bits or anything once you wean them (and those can be worked around!).
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/26 05:00 PM
2

So, I agree with you that not every aspect of life can (or should) be treated as a financial equation. This idea here operates more as an illustration of value than as a genuine proposal. What I find illustrative is to swap places mentally and genuinely evaluate whether this arrangement feels as fair, safe, and satisfying when you are the one in the non-provider role. Assume for the sake of the exercise that your partner is willing and capable to provide just as well as you are. The point of thi…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/26 04:58 PM
1

Everybody is tired, that's what happens.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/26 04:50 PM
3

"Bang maid" has a specific connotation that you're kind of glossing over here (probably in order to make your point). You are correct that there is nothing dishonorable in doing the caretaking and homemaking labor of a family. If this is a fulfilling role for someone (and it certainly can be!), and they are respected and have strong interpersonal ties to their family members, this is an important vocation. The fact that our capitalist mindsets devalue it because it is unpaid doesn't inherently m…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/26 04:40 PM
3

Why is it the responsibility of the person who carried the fetus?
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/26 04:29 PM
15

I've been pondering what changed to help nudge the idea of a 'committed bachelor' away from being cool and carefree and into the idea of the 'loser incel' instead. With the understanding that the difference in attitude is more pronounced than any change in the general experience of long-term unpartnered adult men (by which I mean, I think 1950 also had its share of average, unremarkable men who were not necessarily as glamorous and cool as the ideal makes them sound, and who probably would have …
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/26 04:24 PM
8

Total tangent: why did male activism end up with the awful word 'meninism' and not something correlated with the Latin roots of feminism? I prefer 'virinism' because it's better grammar and sounds cooler but would accept 'masculism' as being more obviously understandable to modern English speakers.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/26 04:08 PM
1

That is not the entire set of dating and romance advice from the world beyond TRP.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/26 09:44 PM
2

I was going to mention wellness/health influencer content -- it's a huge space of course but definitely some super-grifty content as well as plenty of outright misinformation.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/26 09:36 PM
2

Needlessly rude, bro.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/26 09:29 PM
1

Yeah, pondering it some and pairing it with my prior knowledge that readership in general is quite low in the adult population, I can see my way to there. This is one of those areas where I'm in a bubble (in this case a readers bubble).
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/26 09:29 PM
–

I would love to know what constitutes a silly trend and what constitutes a valid, serious period of popular culture, fashion, architecture, or whatever.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/26 04:08 PM
3

Huh. I did not expect that stat to be true. That's wild.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/26 03:52 PM
1

Yes, the 'don't hang out with the opposite gender' rule only works for very heteronormative people whose social spaces share that framework. I'm nonbinary, I'd never get to have any friends!
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/26 12:47 AM
2

Five Ways to Forgiveness was intense. I need to read more Ursula Le Guin.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/26 12:37 AM
1

This is super interesting because the way you described ACoTaR sounded a lot like my take on Twilight back in the day, haha. I feel like there is a space for writing that is nothing earth-shattering but perfectly readable.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/26 11:19 PM
2

The thing about bad bluepill advice is that most people just call it 'bad advice.' With the possible exception of any bad advice that happens to be specifically redpill. All of which is to say, it's totally fair to ignore or argue against bad advice. Bluepill folks also think a lot of it is bad.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/26 10:20 PM
1

Dig it, that makes sense. I'll probably pick it up at some point (not for a bit, I'm chewing through the last quarter of The Will of the Many reread in anticipation of launching into the sequel right after).
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/26 10:16 PM
0

Lord, you are not wrong re: Amanda Palmer.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/26 09:50 PM
0

Tricksey hobbitses.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/26 09:47 PM
0

Re: #3 -- not judging you, but curious -- did you like it? How'd you find it? I haven't jumped into it yet partly because it seems overhyped and I'm curious for perspectives that come from outside the most expected demographic.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/26 09:46 PM
7

I'm either an idiot or a really pure person because I interpreted that as an actual hole cut into the center of the table like some kind of sleight of hand trick. 💀
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/26 01:03 AM
2

Sure, I can understand that. It's cool that you have that option.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/04/26 10:00 PM
5

Male strip shows are deeply weird. Like to the point where I can't even opine too strongly on them because I don't know whether this is a Juice being weird and trans and neurospicy thing or an everybody actually finds them weird AF thing. They seem to mainly operate as a kind of... female group bonding over performative arousal/taboo-breaking thing? It's like a group sexual encounter that stops short of actual sex acts. Completely different vibe from female strip performances IME.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/04/26 09:28 PM
1

You're describing someone being willing to engage in riskier behavior with someone she perceived as being more desirable or exciting or whatever. I'm not saying anyone needs to feel pleased about this (it's reasonable to get a bit in your feels about it), but it's a perfectly ordinary way to behave. People risk rejection more readily with people they're more into. People buy into a lottery when the jackpot goes up. People take a chance when they think their once-in-a-lifetime opportunity comes.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/04/26 09:20 PM
4

This is the one. Women respond to a woman gushing about how much she loves women (as a category) very differently than men respond to a woman gushing about how much she loves men.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/04/26 09:11 PM
–

Ironically this is the just world fallacy that RP blokes here love to pin on all BP ideas. It's probably true that anyone who's having no success at dating has things they could work on improving (because be real; we all have things we could improve!), but that's not quite the same.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/04/26 08:59 PM
2

You and I agree. I think my comment is confusing because of the inverted phrasing, but I was critiquing OP's perspective that women don't have to strive to improve or contribute to society, and saying that my experience was the opposite.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/26 10:55 PM
2

Oh hey, my partner made me the lemon and honey and ginger drink last week on day 2 of the head cold, and it really was delicious and exactly what I needed. Thank you for the ginger tip, it was a great inclusion.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/26 10:04 PM
1

And yet we also have so many underserved communities and pervasive health issues. Solving these disparities and improving access and uptake is one of modern medicine's big challenges, for sure.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/26 10:02 PM
1

Sure. If you figure out how to provide knowledge, therapies, and medications to every single person who is struggling and needs them, I hope someone puts you in charge of healrhcare on a global level posthaste.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/26 09:31 PM
–

PSA: Guys, if your lady isn't touching your body during sex, find a better partner. This post is funny to me. Sexual arousal happens in a feedback loop between the brain and the body. You're observing that for many men looking at an attractive female body is a quick trigger for arousal in the brain. No objections from me -- when people say 'men are more visual' this is what they're talking about. Looking at a man's attractive body doesn't seem to trigger arousal in a woman's brain as straightfor…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/26 06:38 PM
2

It kind of is. I went down a rabbit hole a few weeks ago watching socialization and dating informational films from the 1940s and '50s -- this one is a decent example. https://youtu.be/3D32Z5hjtR0?si=GnX16hdTpoPs4CvI
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/26 06:26 PM
1

Yeah, I think my disagreement is mainly semantic. Which, I do love a good semantic argument, but we don't disagree too much here.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/26 06:03 PM
5

Unclear whether Hugo Weaving is not conventionally attractive enough to count as a hear me out, but that man is so hot. Damn. He was at least nobody else's pick from the LOTR cast which is a deep bench of hot dudes.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/26 06:01 PM
4

I'm not sure I agree that it's useless. The same advice is useful to the same degree whether it is presented or adopted due to wanting to impress a woman or due to wanting to self-improve for your own satisfaction. I also think male self-improvement gets presented through this lens because it's effective advertising -- men tend to want women to like them and will consider things they wouldn't otherwise. I don't disagree that it would be mentally healthier to focus on self-improvement for your ow…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/26 05:36 PM
2

I don't really believe in 'laziness,' which means I disagree with your framing. Not wanting to work on social skills is probably mainly a sign of one or more of the following: having no real idea what to work on specifically or how to go about trying to improve (a lack of knowledge) having an impediment standing between knowledge of what would be best to do and taking action (this could be overwhelm, executive function, anxiety, depression, other priorities, financial or logistical barriers, etc…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/26 05:24 PM
3

This sounds like a broad misunderstanding about how this type of content works. If there is a lot of content instructing women to 'know their worth,' what that means is that content-creators have determined that: many women struggle with 'knowing their worth' and settle or sell themselves short and/or many women think they have this problem and are willing to click on a video that discusses it, offers advice on how not to do that, etc. Right now I'm seeing a lot of content about getting offline …
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/26 05:12 PM
5

It seems more like a cycle of abuse than a conspiracy to me, but yeah, it's absurd that we've made so little legal headway in twenty years.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/26 06:46 PM
3

You just seem like a cool lady. I'm glad you're here. 🖤
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/26 02:54 PM
3

Only if I can keep switching endlessly whenever I want. Not sure what the opposite of genderqueer is, though, but if I can just change my physical at will, I'm down.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/26 02:52 PM
5

I can't believe you took my man Willy Wonka's name in vain like this.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/26 02:24 PM
5

Unfortunately yes. Tone policing doesn't make their arguments wrong, so I try to leave it out entirely, but I'm sure rudeness erodes goodwill.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/26 02:23 PM
7

Yes, the provocation is part of the point. Trebly so since TRP became slightly more mainstream/more visible to women. Any TRP content made with the expectation that women will encounter it is intentionally phrased to be as rude as possible.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/26 02:08 PM
7

I think the part you're missing or ignoring is that the mindset coaching is TRP.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/26 02:03 PM
27

You might have a point if you were talking about the broad cultural discussion about dating, but this idea falls apart here within this subreddit. There are plenty of bluepill or -adjacent people here who are perfectly fine having a frank discussion on these topics. A lot of what you describe is people agreeing with a premise, or part of a premise, but thinking it's overstated or taken to incorrect conclusions. That is a very ordinary part of disagreement.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/26 01:58 PM
3

It probably depends, yeah? Some RP observations are just wrong, or overgeneralized or whatever. Those aren't necessarily indicative of men trying to control women. Sometimes men really do exhibit a pretty large degree of wanting to control women, though. And to be honest that wouldn't be so concerning, except we just got some of those systems of control changed fairly recently, so walking those reforms back is a particularly undesirable possibility that people tend to feel strongly about.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/26 12:56 AM
1

I mean I don't agree. I just think most men don't really want a return to having to prove fault and sue for divorce. It's a perfectly reasonable position to say: 'no-fault divorce is a more functional process than fault divorce, and I think people who blow up their marriages for dumb reasons are shitty.'
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/26 11:25 PM
1

Ha! You're supposed to provide reasons to support your position or refute mine, what is this?!
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/26 10:55 PM
–

Why, is 'women don't play video games' a criticism? Or is 'women do play video games' the criticism? Honestly either way it's boring AF.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/26 09:32 PM
–

I'm yoinking these recs.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/26 09:26 PM
3

The second part is true!
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/26 09:21 PM
–

Hey, this bloke is not interested in arguing in good faith about this and will ignore all evidence. Carry on, just fair warning!
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/26 09:19 PM
–

Oh, you again, with this boring and incorrect argument. Anyway.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/26 09:19 PM
–

I feel like the Scouts USA move (in addition to all the other reasons mentioned) is aimed at families that are already doing scouting and want their kids to have a similar experience regardless of gender. Girl Scouts can be almost anything, but it's so open-ended that the specific experience and especially the activity focus can vary a ton troop to troop. Scouts USA has their programming structured in a more rubric-y way for lack of a better term.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/26 09:16 PM
–

For clarity, Girl Scouts' policies support a girls-focused experience, and welcome nonbinary, transgender, and gender-nonconforming kids who find that experience a good fit.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/26 09:13 PM
2

Mainly yes. So it's the legal process that makes it possible to file for divorce without a specific reason, and have that processed through the court system without having to provide evidence of any sort, potentially without having to retain lawyers, and without having to have a trial to determine whether grounds for divorce have been met. Basically, previously you had to sue for divorce, you had to be able to prove the relevant wrongdoing that was grounds, and it was a much more complicated, em…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/26 08:46 PM
1

Back up a smidge. Can you tell me what no-fault divorce is, exactly?
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/26 08:21 PM
7

You're using a pretty broad understanding of manipulation here that includes every sort of social influence. You're correct in saying that some sorts of social influence are considered acceptable and appropriate while others are not. You're off-base in supposing that people disagree with TRP tactics because they disapprove of social influence broadly. To assess your claim that feminist society doesn't approve of TRP because they do not want men to have control, you would need to analyze whether …
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/26 08:20 PM
0

I don't think that gulf is at all as apparent as you think. We see this all the time whenever perfectly normal people talk about being fine with having sex with someone who would rather not be having it. Or talking about it being unthinkable to stop having sex partway through if something happens that makes the other person lose interest. Or religious teachings about spouses needing to be "joyfully available" to their spouse at all times, regardless of their own feelings. There are lots of very …
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/26 05:59 PM
1

Sure, statistically speaking this is so. I don't know that it matters which way it ultimately shakes out for them as far as evaluating their thoughts and opinions now.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/26 05:44 PM
1

Not at all. Like I said, before no-fault divorce people did the same things, they just called it 'having an affair' or 'taking the kids and fucking off to Cypress for an indeterminate length of time' or 'weirdly they are always traveling for business.'
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/26 05:42 PM
1

That breaking up a family frivolously sucks and that's what you dislike, not no-fault divorce.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/26 03:33 AM
6

Pretty much. When I was young this was known as 'playing games' and the proportion of young men who thought this was necessary to succeed at dating seemed pretty similar to the proportion of young women who felt their games-playing was necessary to succeed. A lot of people grow out of this, some never do.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/26 03:12 AM
2

Right, people can do that, with or without no-fault divorce. We agree, then?
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/26 12:10 AM
3

Right, all no-fault divorce is doing in this scenario is allowing her to divorce instead of being a party girl while technically remaining married. Why do you care about that piece of it?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/26 11:28 PM
3

Cool, but my point is nobody is trapped in the painful limbo of having to prove fault of some kind before divorcing a spouse in a marriage they don't want to be in anymore.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/26 11:18 PM
3

Good news, men can also use no fault divorce at any time and take a woman's years of hard work!
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/26 11:14 PM
2

Sorry, hold the phone, are you saying that you think rapists are all extreme outliers and not part of the normal population of people? Because that doesn't bear out at all.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/26 11:12 PM
-1

Honestly, yes. Women dating assholes are not doing anything to anyone else.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/26 11:00 PM
1

This! Men are primed to... adapt and use tools, mostly. To be resourceful and survive in a wide variety of climates and contexts. To develop strong communal bonds in social groups of ~15-30 people. To make stuff and do art and poke things with sticks.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/26 09:51 PM
1

I think any individual is going to have 'peaks' along various metrics that end up falling at different times. Broad debates like this put a lot of weight onto which metrics matter most to the people doing the debating. If all you care about is a person's physical beauty, that peak is presumably young adulthood somewhere. If you care about emotional stability, that peak is probably later in adulthood. If you care about physical strength, that depends on the person. Etc. It works out for the indiv…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/26 02:29 PM
2

I think that if you want to understand other women's obsession with marriage, you have to step aside from your own thoughts about it and dig into what exactly they are so enthusiastic about. What are the reasons why women (or anyone) who really want to get married want that? Your arguments all have to do with why you, a woman who doesn't want to marry, feel that way. This is fine but easily answered by simply observing that other people feel differently about it. I also think it's interesting to…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/26 02:21 PM
1

Completely valid tbh
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/26 02:10 PM
0

In addition to what the other commenters mentioned, I think most women who are reflective enough to have thought about it probably do expect to die alone. Not necessarily because they never marry, but because the statistical odds are in favor of them outliving any husband they have in their old age.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/04/26 11:21 PM
–

Ha! My youngest child is deeply offended that I know Gen 1 Pokemon but nothing else.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/04/26 11:07 PM
–

Quick, go eat all of the protein, or none of it!
/r/PurplePillDebate23/04/26 11:03 PM
–

Not that you want or need my advice, OP, but yeah, this PerformativeRacist is right.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/04/26 10:47 PM
7

I had a long debate with my friends about this once upon a time and the conclusion I came to was that the friend zone is the same as unrequited love, except that in classic unrequited love, the love object is considered to be blameless. The lover suffers because their affections are not returned, but this is the result of bad fortune. This understanding of love treats it as an external circumstance which happens through the power of nature (or doesn't), and the responsibility of the people invol…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/04/26 10:02 PM
–

Gaslighting was invented in 1944. Narcissism was invented in 1899. Fat shaming seems to date from the early 2000s though. There's nothing especially fancy about specific terms for specific topics. This is just how language works, I'm afraid.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/04/26 09:51 PM
–

I think wage income is a survival skill, not a gender role.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/04/26 09:43 PM
–

I agree with you that the structure of modern society expects people to be able to handle routine cleaning and household management tasks as part of the general package of adult life skills. I'm somewhat sympathetic to people who didn't get raised by parents who took the time to teach them -- especially since the educational expectations for professional work are quite time-intensive and specialized, so I can even see the logic in focusing on educational advancement for a teen and young adult, w…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/04/26 08:51 PM
–

This is an incredibly important point. I think most people who don't have a special interest in this subgenre of history don't necessarily realize the ubiquity of paid domestic labor even for working-class people until pretty recently. The heyday of the 'career housewife' was so short-lived.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/04/26 08:42 PM
1

Oh, I guess I should clarify it's more of a liquid lozenge than, like, a drink. Like you take a spoonful at a time with an hour in between or something.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/04/26 08:29 PM
1

My mom always did straight honey and lemon juice roughly 50/50. I haven't been motivated to actually make it happen yet though. Ginger sounds good too. The unfortunate part of being an adult is having to take care of yourself when you're feeling gross.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/04/26 06:31 PM
2

Ha! Tell everyone they are annoying as hell is certainly an option. This does raise an interesting point though -- it is difficult to assess the veracity of anyone's own observations and conclusions about the people around them when the rest of us each have our own distinct contexts. It's reasonable to believe that some people are not reliable witnesses, or interpret their observations incorrectly, but it's also possible that some people simply are in contexts that concentrate clusters of people…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/04/26 06:29 PM
7

Agreed. I think to the extent that things like divorce rates are cultural, you've got to reckon with the fact that you are going to bring your own cultural baggage with you wherever you go, whomever you pair up with.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/04/26 02:00 AM
0

Yeah, sometimes.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/26 11:06 PM
1

I guess so. Honestly I'm in favor of both and think they target different needs.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/26 11:03 PM
0

Anytime we say that people "just need to <something>," we need to pause and consider what the barriers are between them and this action we think they should take. Sometimes it's just knowledge, in which case telling them would be enough. But pretty much everyone knows they ought to eat better and get more physical activity. So we know that if they know this, yet are not doing it, something else is standing between them and this behavior change. Figuring out what that is (and how to reduce or rem…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/26 10:51 PM
1

I don't think women think men should go to therapy instead of getting coaching help? For one thing, it's quite possible to do both. For another, I haven't observed much of these two ideas being portrayed in opposition to each other. Saying men need therapy isn't necessarily saying anything about the merits of coaching.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/26 10:46 PM
4

Ah my guy. The evidence is against you on this one. But if you're aromantic or on that spectrum, take heart! Y'all have a really cool flag.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/26 10:20 PM
5

Okay. What conclusion should we draw from this?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/26 09:31 PM
–

Many people like being married. Also insurance is expensive in the US.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/26 09:19 PM
–

We absolutely can and should leave open the possibility that people lie. Self-report data is not the best type of data. However, the correct response to that is to look for further studies on the same topic and compare results, and keep a grain of salt our conclusions, not throw up our hands, completely ignore any data, and draw conclusions based on vibes.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/26 09:17 PM
–

Eh, or more sex ed = less accidental pregnancy leading to marriages that maybe weren't thoroughly considered first = marriages made on more-considered foundations persist better? Or any number of other correlational reasons, this is a gnarly complex topic.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/26 09:13 PM
1

This kind of therapy sounds baller, honestly. I've had therapists in the past and it wasn't bad but it wasn't a great fit and it didn't seem to be very helpful in terms of my day-to-day. The process of finding therapists and dealing with insurance surrounding it in the US sucks rocks though to be honest.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/26 09:07 PM
1

I agree with you about needing goals and action plans, and to be honest I don't even think that's completely a 'men' thing. I'm not trying to argue about the prevalence or if there's any gendered slant in this, just observing that there are plenty of women who also want and need actionable goals. To be honest I don't think that therapy is a bad fit for men in general, or that men generally don't like talking about the stuff that's bothering them. The issue I see is that therapy is best for certa…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/26 08:55 PM
3

I misread the chart title when I saw it initially and was sure it said "Sexiness is rising by every measure!" Massive disappointment.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/26 04:11 PM
12

That's the thing though, is one's dating pool everyone in the entire world?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/26 04:05 PM
5

I mean, there isn't really an average job. You could do median or something there. ETA: no I'm an idiot who forgot how medians work, you can't use that either. You could calculate average income!
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/26 03:50 PM
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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