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theory_of_kink Archive

View 0 posts and 485 comments by theory_of_kink on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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1

I definitely think human mating is complicated. Its like we are wired for competing strategies. In that sense I don't think we are strictly a monogamous ape. But I'm skeptical about some ideas like "Sex at Dawn," it seems to have an active agenda. I'll need to look up a podcast by Bergner now, thanks.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/15 03:29 PM
1

If you don't believe in morality there can't be worse people.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/15 07:49 AM
1

Well I guess my experience of the scene is different.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/15 06:19 PM
1

I guess some need a veneer more than others.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/15 11:31 AM
1

Top/bottom has no correlation with the genders of people involved, there certainly isn't a clear majority one way or the other, and female tops are as common as male tops. Never seen a stat on the BDSM population was anything close to equal. Do you have a citation? All the surveys I see show something similar to this. The association of BDSM role and gender was strong and significant. Among the men 33.4%, 18.3%, and 48.3%, were Sub, Switch, or Dom, respectively, whereas these percentages were 75…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/15 11:29 AM
2

50 Shades is not BDSM, not by a long shot. It makes me cringe to even see the comparisons, frankly. People in the BDSM community overwhelmingly despise how that book makes them look. Sure its not a BDSM manual. But it is BDSM erotica. I think the majority of people that read it recognise it is not example of how BDSM works in reality they get that it is a trashy piece of fiction for erotic thrills. It deliberately breaks consent rules to create fantasy pleasures. How exactly does it work that in…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/15 10:57 AM
2

I tend to think the male imperative lies with the male sex drive and possibly the legitimate fear of male violence. Maybe that's only a mild difference. To me this is culture working around behaviour rather than causing it.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/15 10:29 AM
1

Nope couldn't find any. I concede on that. Blue pill seems relatively sex positive. Outside of blue pill BDSM is a devise topic within feminism. Which is surely red pill's bigger target than blue pill. You would agree to that? Feminism does have a history of being sex negative. I can understand its problems with aspects of BDSM, sex work and porn. And even today critics of BDSM are usually self declared feminists using a feminist critique.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/15 10:25 AM
1

Know what's infinitely more popular than erotica (across both genders)? Slasher films. Does that mean people actually want to be murder by serial killers (or alternatively, that people want to be serial killers), and that the popularity of these films challenges a pacifist worldview? Of course not. Well it does kind of point to deep and probably natural stimulation from violence. I think the meaning of slasher films is interesting. You can't say it means nothing. Just because somebody chooses to…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/15 10:04 AM
1

I read better erotica than Twilight fan fiction and bodice-rippers, and sometimes I watch porn. Most women below middle age watch porn fairly regularly. I need a citation for that. All I've read points to the majority women enjoying written erotica over visual porn. http://healthland.time.com/2011/05/19/mind-reading-the-researchers-who-analyzed-all-the-porn-on-the-internet/
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/15 09:34 AM
3

That's too circular. "I think most men directly approach because they're used to the woman not making the first move."
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 11:27 PM
9

Do you have evidence it is "left over from our Judeo-Christian roots?"
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 11:25 PM
1

How does he know it will ultimately be for his gain? There's lots of things that can fall into this category; selling out to a rival; disappearing with the codes, IP, contacts. Prisoner's dilemma defection. In game terms its a payoff that is exclusive to the friend at the expensive of me. It's a payoff high enough that it negates the future value of friendship. If you say you are Christian or express traditional morals then you are saying I am explicitly irrational enough to sacrifice myself for…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 11:01 PM
0

I've made the same argument. My issue is not consent. The problem is the conflict between the blue pill model and the reality of female desire. Blue pill stands for the blank slate, against sexism, against alpha male sex gods and even sometimes against BDSM. But here in the most popular erotica with women are anti blue pill tropes. This does not validate red pill but challenges the blue pill world.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 10:28 PM
1

I refer to my other comment. https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3d9t5p/the_most_common_problem_between_trp_and_tbp/ct3b502
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 10:17 PM
1

And its rational to avoid people who say they are rational egoists?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 10:05 PM
1

I don't think rational self interest is necessarily moral.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 08:37 PM
1

The comment I responded to was about explicitly about morality.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 08:19 PM
1

Would you call that lying to these people?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 08:08 PM
2

Imagine a situation where I am going into business with someone. I have the offer from two friends. One is either a Christian, a Kantian ethicist, a socialist, a Catholic Conservative or even a regular salt of the Earth type. The other is a self proclaimed rational egoist. In the business I know there could be times when he can dump me for his own financial gain. We may never trade again together but overall it will be for his gain. It is rational for him to burn me. All other things being equal…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 07:56 PM
1

Isn't it rational to deny being a rational egoist?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 07:02 PM
1

Ha, yes I looked up 'shitty erotica,' it said coprophilia.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 05:52 PM
1

Unless you believe in the blank slate human sexual behaviour is connected to human psychology which has is the product of evolution. All sexual behaviour, being such an unconscious base animal trait, is linked to intuitive biological behaviour. For whatever reason nature throws up sexual variations. Evo psych is abused to morally justify immoral acts but the I think theory is sound. But that is the appeal to nature fallacy. Men are more sexual than women generally. Men are more generally more do…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 03:10 PM
0

Are we debating flavour or quantity though?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 02:01 PM
2

I think you're projecting.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 01:15 PM
1

I think that's too circular to make sense. Fantasy and imagination come before experience mostly. Though I guess women can come to sex more passively. Attractive women still fantasise and still read erotica.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 01:12 PM
1

You mean that all women are secretly hardcore submissive BDSM enthusiasts? I don't see any evidence of that.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 01:06 PM
2

Explain?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 12:55 PM
2

The average, mainstream, vanilla woman.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 12:39 PM
2

If there was a popular movie about a man being dominated , society would still freak out. If. There is no popular femdom. Male domination is popular in women's erotic fiction. Mild male dom is vanilla mainstream culture.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 12:20 PM
2

What do most women do to engage their erotic imagination? Unless you are saying they don't engage in sexual thoughts as much in which case I'd say I agree.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 11:06 AM
7

Are you saying nothing can be understood about sexuality from the popularity and form of erotic fiction?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 10:55 AM
7

Fiction is not meaningless.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 10:53 AM
6

Apparently a lot of women like to be dominated in bed , I see nothing RedPill about that . But it's very much not blue pill. Plus mainstream society is squeamish about things like 50 Shades. Mainstream society condones sexist romantic narratives. BDSM fiction through it's extremeness forces us to admit to politically incorrect fantasy. The popularity of male domination and female submission in erotica popular with women is a problem for equality and the blank slate model.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 10:50 AM
0

Hear's to abnormal women.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 10:28 AM
0

I might like some of that but it's hardly mainstream. The reality is women's erotic imagination is more aligned with what the OP describes.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 10:07 AM
4

Are you kink shaming?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 10:06 AM
2

And what do the "HB10s" use for erotic stimulation of the imagination?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 10:04 AM
8

That's a cop out and you know it. We are talking about the leading fictional erotic model for women. Sure it's not all women but it's the leading model. Are we supposed to just pretend it's not there?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/15 10:00 AM
1

Yet it seems so much much more.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/15 01:08 PM
3

Hey I'm not blue pill. I think there are bio truths or more like bio differences in statistical means. Men and logic, there's probably something going on. Maybe its the Empathizing–systemizing theory. But then I'm wary of conclusions after that. That men are cold logical machines and women are wonderful warm mothers? Ultimately reasons always lead back to passions. Logic is only a tool for fulfilling passions.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/15 06:19 PM
2

Then they would prefer the male prison population to be as low as the female population. To be fair I think everyone would prefer a lower prison population.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/15 03:36 PM
1

are there not always going to be exceptions to the rule? outliers? The exception that proves the rule is not universal. Are we debating ought or is? I guess for Savile a selfish strategy paid off. Technology will always be changing the environment. Not sure an environment without privacy would be utopia.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/15 03:24 PM
1

There was a good example of successful selfish strategy recently. I'm in the UK where a couple years ago the children's entertainer Sir Jimmy Savile died. After it was revealed he was a serial child molester, rapist and necrophiliac. He died of old age, rich, with friends in powerful places, honoured by the state with only the odd bad rumour. Cosby just happened to live long enough to be the villain. I guess there others we never get to hear about and we still champion as heroes.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/15 03:00 PM
3

Probably a men are monsters effect.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/15 02:47 PM
2

I wouldn't deny that.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/15 02:44 PM
2

"Selfishness beats altruism within groups. Altruistic groups beat selfish groups. Everything else is commentary" If everyone around you is practising communality the best strategy is selfishness. If everyone around you is practising selfishness the best strategy is communality. The optimal strategy is environmentally dependent. Humans are however social animals so they will always require altruism.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/15 02:43 PM
6

To play feminist advocate aren't you picking male criminality and incarceration as the norm? They would say male levels of crime need to go down to the female rate. I actually kind of think you are falling into a kind of feminism that champions masculinity as the benchmark. For the record I think men will always break the rules more than women. In that sense I am an essentialist.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/15 01:51 PM
1

But nowhere is running absolute capitalism right? It's mitigated. It is explicitly not free markets. Sometimes a freer market might help sometimes not.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/15 12:32 PM
2

Pretty sure starvation and death squads still appear under capitalism. But then maybe just less so. We are looking for an optimal blend of virtues. Self interest can lead to tyranny. Autocratic monarchy for example.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/15 12:22 PM
1

Sure. My problem is the idea that self interest always arrives at the optimal social outcome.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/15 12:10 PM
1

I think people have competing virtues. Any proposed system that places one virtue above all others fails in comparison to a system that respects multiple virtues.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/15 12:00 PM
3

I guess I think morality is an evolved trait that is vague, contradictory and essential. Society needs it to function.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/15 11:56 AM
1

But the moral part of rational self interest seems to break down. It's also confusing as if you believe in self interest, then it is in your self interest to lie about being self interested.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/15 11:10 AM
1

He seems like a borderline neo nazi.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/15 11:04 AM
1

Rational self interest seems as believable as utilitarianism. Morality remains just out of reach so we always have to bend the ideas to make it work.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/15 10:35 AM
3

It's not a hat it's a crown.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/15 10:05 AM
1

He's very clever and very mad. He'd make a great villain in a cyberpunk version of Games of Thrones.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/07/15 09:54 AM
2

You say fetish like its bad thing.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/07/15 02:48 PM
1

Do you recognise any difference between a radical feminist and a regular one?
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/15 04:47 PM
2

But isn't this treating relationships like a zero sum game? It's not that relationship are all zero sum but that life and human interaction is not wholly zero sum. Most people would rather deal with people who saw others being on the same side to an extent.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/15 03:53 PM
2

I guess part of the reason I find TRP to be such BS is that I don't find many alpha male personality traits attractive at all. Red pill would say you are the exception that proves the rule.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/15 03:44 PM
1

Does gender role hierarchy recreate itself in that environment?
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/15 11:47 AM
7

90% of the citizens are bluepill No. Most people are closer to purple. It's red and blue that are on the fringe.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/15 11:34 AM
1

But there is a difference between making yourself more attractive which increases lust and faking insecurity to increase dread and fear. You seem to be saying the carrot is the same as the stick if the result is the same. In the long term with a larger population of people this strategy fails and practitioners are pariahs.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/07/15 10:56 AM
1

Dread game is about making people insecure though right?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/15 11:36 PM
1

All attraction is about making the other person fearful and insecure?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/15 11:29 PM
6

In my opinion dread game is a useful tool. If people use it for platonic friendship and relationships its a sign they are on the psychopath spectrum and should not be trusted. Don't employ them, don't work for them, don't sleep with them, don't marry them.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/15 11:41 AM
0

People believe everything isn't about money. Most people would pay money not to be around people who only think of money.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/07/15 03:46 PM
2

They've all renounced traditional femininity, traditional marriage and believe the country is under control of a patriarchy?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/07/15 03:40 PM
7

Radical feminists have substantial influence on politics, legislation, education and media. Really? Radical Feminism? Can you name me any Radical Feminists in prominent places of power in the politics, legislation or media. I think prominent ones are in education and academia. But I wouldn't say they were that influential.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/15 11:47 AM
5

I don't think these women are pro red pill.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/15 11:30 AM
2

I think historically its been a lot more common. As I understand it monogamy has a lot to do with a more equitable distribution of wealth.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/07/15 04:32 PM
2

Is this the 60s communes with free love that which broke down into de facto harems with dictators? Or am I putting a too negative interpretation of it?
/r/PurplePillDebate02/07/15 12:51 PM
6

So true for most of the world and most of history? But not true for your community which you would admit is small? It's only a problem if its popular.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/07/15 11:47 AM
6

Most polygamist societies are bad for the majority of men. As I understand it Monogamy was about equally sharing "the supply of women." Power is a quality people find attractive in men. Power by its nature is concentrated. Hence the problems.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/07/15 11:17 AM
1

I feel that women's sexuality is inherently perverse. As opposed to what? If all women's sexuality is perverse then it is normal. How could it be a perversion of the normal if the normal is perverse?
/r/PurplePillDebate01/07/15 11:07 PM
1

yeah but I can't see trp making much ground in BDSM culture. It's like a lifestyle D/s Ff couple, that refuse to use consent rules, deny mutual respect and assume everyone really ought to be doing it there way to be happy.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/07/15 09:27 AM
2

The sub dom roles in BDSM also include female dominants or 'switches'. Absolutely. Female dommes? Super rare. Probably because it clashes with two traits, women are less sexually/kink orientated and less dominant.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/15 10:25 PM
1

It's not all and its not generally extreme but most women like men in the active role. Is there any popular romance that does not have traditional roles in its core? I would agree that the fantasy of romance is not actually how they would like their life. But the model is there. The sub dom roles in BDSM just seem like an exaggerated form of regular relationships.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/15 09:53 PM
2

It just sounds like BDSM done wrong. Taking wild untamed sexual desires and leaving it dangerously untamed.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/15 05:06 PM
3

I think most women like sexually aggressive men though and I don't think that's just a supply demand issue. I just think biologically women are more passive. Romantic fiction is very popular with women and has very traditional gender models. Other aspects of gendered life has changed but that remains consistent.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/15 04:16 PM
2

The thing they avoid is consent. Listening to red pill can sound like like a BDSM lifestyle dom who doesn't believe in consent. A huge deal in the scene is holding fantasy. The players want it to be real and don't want it to be real. If you drop consent it becomes abuse.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/06/15 04:08 PM
2

I like debating sex politics. I like to understand where people are coming from. There's so many taboos and unspoken values under the surface. Yet people are acting upon them.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/06/15 08:48 PM
2

I know a red pill man in real life How does he get on with other men? What are the women around him like?
/r/PurplePillDebate25/06/15 08:42 PM
0

Its one of the great imponderables.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/15 06:58 PM
3

However women are just as prone to want to "punch someone," it's simply not in their best interest to instigate a physical fight with a larger person... I don't think its usually in the best interest of the man to punch either. Men and crime? There's all kinds of ways to frame it but I can't help seeing men as more likely to be violent rules breakers.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/15 03:45 PM
1

I can see choice matters. She has to be wanting to do those things. But those things are still vague. Though I think most people recognise it when they see it. Even if they do not acknowledge philosophically.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/15 03:36 PM
-3

I think its very tricky. How does TBP define it? One of my assumptions about TBP is it would be very anti gender essentialism. Defining masculinity looks too essentialist for that position. But then I don't believe in red pill blue pill dualism. Plus its definitions would shy from anything negative. Masculinity I think is related to dominance and aggression. Maybe I just think these things need to be subordinate to morality, consent, society.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/15 01:11 PM
8

But Blue pill seems unable to define masculinity. It's afraid to define it. True enough. But how do you define it so it's inclusive for all men? Why does it need to include all men? I couldn't define masculinity easily. Hey like art, I know it when I see it. And I see it in men and women.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/15 01:04 PM
13

I'm not red pill but aren't you only explaining their anger at women not their success with women? I always find the issue of masculinity as the elephant in the room here. Perhaps the successful part of red pill is recognising women find masculinity attractive. Can masculinity be attractive without being misogynistic? I think it can. But Blue pill seems unable to define masculinity. It's afraid to define it.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/15 12:10 PM
2

Do you have definitions of masculinity? I wouldn't call a woman who knows how to install an operating system or mow a lawn "masculine". She just knows how to get shit done. At what point would you say she has masculine traits?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/15 11:01 AM
1

That is unusual. How do you explain it?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 08:34 PM
1

But you can't judge society by your experience right? Also things change. Sadly it is a common problem that people loose their passion after marriage, after years of familiar sex. I believe I am correct in saying it is usually the woman. That's not a judgement.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 08:08 PM
1

No I can see vibrators being popular with women. I still think men are more sexually driven.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/06/15 07:56 PM
1

I'd agree. But even with women masturbating more than every I would still say the default pattern is for men to be more sexual.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/15 04:54 PM
0

I'm all for women being sex positive and enthusiastic but really the pattern is very clear. You just happen to be the exception so there is less advice for you. Bonus question: for women like me, what advice is there to be given on how to get our men to desire sex with us more frequently? Lower male libidos are rarer. Most people would wonder at the individuals not the generally accepted rule. The advice to men with higher drives is, communication, use porn consider an open relationship. The cyn…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/15 04:47 PM
7

Plenty of men are paid to have sex with women. No they aren't. Define "plenty."
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/15 04:34 PM
1

It's funny to associate porn with a low sex drive when the usual fears have been of creating an over sexed male. Tend towards thinking it satiates rather then creates a demand for real sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/15 11:02 AM
1

How much of that industry is for men? How much of that industry is for couples trying to stimulate women who otherwise are unsatisfied or plain uninterested?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/15 11:00 AM
2

Would you recommend blue pill for a daughter and red pill for a son? The choice between one pill or the other seems too binary for me. I think the world is more complex in action and morality. Full of grey zones.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/06/15 09:13 AM
2

If I wanted to protect a daughter and her suitor was from red pill school I would recommend she avoid them.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/06/15 03:39 PM
2

Are you saying as a red pill advocate that you should treat people as individuals and not make judgements based on evidence that points towards certain behaviour?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/06/15 03:24 PM
2

If red pill was an amoral book on stone masonry it would not be a problem. Red pill is an amoral guide to human relations. If someone lives by an amoral guide to making money would they make a trustworthy employee for transporting currency between nations for a bank? It might work for them but for everyone else. Some might say the book is moral because "that's how it is," some might say of course its amoral, who cares? Speak to your gods about it. Making money is more important than being moral.…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/06/15 02:37 PM
1

Is red pill amoral?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/06/15 01:50 PM
2

If you have a mechanistic, materialist view of humanity there can't be anything BUT "biotruths". Absolutely but a biotruth does not offer suggest a course of action. I'm willing to concede any "biotruth" may turn out to be false as we understand more about human biology, but until we do I'll generally believe what makes the most sense to me in the current state of biology and evolution knowledge I still think this quickly becomes a question of morality. There can be truths we do not think should…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/06/15 10:33 AM
3

I tend to think morality is an evolutionary product. But it's kind of hard to measure. Either way morality matters to people, it influences how they act and want to act. They also try to debate what is moral and what isn't. People are judged by it.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/06/15 05:35 PM
3

Imprecise. Room for humility and doubt.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/06/15 05:30 PM
6

Yes. How could it not be?
/r/PurplePillDebate20/06/15 03:57 PM
3

It's relevant to human interactions.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/06/15 03:41 PM
6

A few problems with this. How precise is your model? Are there numbers on these facts? Probably not, thats ok, but its hard to take precise action based on rough numbers. Bio truths have exceptions. Maybe lots of exceptions. Like "All men are taller than women." On average yes, but it would be absurd to base society around that. "Appeal to nature." A biological truth is not a moral truth. Humans are naturally violent. That does not mean violence is moral. Humans are social primates that does mea…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/06/15 02:59 PM
8

I think you are unusual. But that's not a moral judgement. Women like masculinity, masculinity is associated with sexual aggression. I think that's a mainstream opinion. Certainly the majority behaviour.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/06/15 01:15 PM
5

People who do a job they hate all their lives usually don't end up happy people to be around. It leads to depression, alcoholism, self harm. It begins to sound like the sacrificial masculinity that MRA complain about.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/06/15 09:11 AM
1

Pragmatism without morality is hedonistic tyranny.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/06/15 09:17 PM
3

It kind of goes against AWALT. Though I guess we should see it as a "guide line." "Women usually," "women often," "the normative behaviour of women is," I guess sound less revelatory.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/15 01:50 PM
3

Would red pill accept these women are born feminists?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/15 03:16 PM
1

I like half agree, i think men need to stop initiating (so much) and be far more selective with women and look at traits other than looks. Not going to happen though is it? I mean porn has become the equivalent of men on strike. Not sure what the female equivalent is. There's probably a few candidates.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/06/15 11:15 AM
2

Don't pull at that thread the whole edifice of reddit would fall.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 08:14 PM
3

So I say not all women are like such and such and you say most are such and such. Is there any description of a woman from a man that would make you think the problem is the man? If someone says the all men are like X, all women are like Y, all Asian people are like Z, all Americans are like W, and then if the description is overly negative then people generally conclude the person is at fault. That's not to say that groups don't have characteristics but the scale and degree matter.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 07:46 PM
2

You do realise this is purple pill debate not the red pill?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 07:32 PM
3

Are all women who say they are financially independent lying devils?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 06:50 PM
5

You understand how that sounds? If this is your experience of women I'd think the common element in that story is not the women.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 01:54 PM
13

The Rules were popular in the 90s
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 11:24 AM
30

Not red pill, but is that not more of a test of "is this woman self reliant?" It also resolves fears of "Is this woman after my money?" some men can have.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/06/15 11:21 AM
1

Probably a good range of reasons. Though because the activity is so gendered there maybe some bio factors. Note that well groomed men trigger people's gaydar.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/15 09:00 AM
1

I think you've never debated free will before.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/15 08:29 PM
1

So what is an act of free will?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/15 07:39 PM
1

Is enjoying something an act of free will? If its not what is?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/15 07:23 PM
1

Is enjoying fashion an act of free will? If its not what is?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/15 07:06 PM
1

Have you heard of the debate about free will?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/15 06:31 PM
1

Are you saying there is no free will?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/15 06:16 PM
1

If you want to dismantle all of free will I'm happy to. But I don't think you can do it just for some desires and not for others.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/15 05:43 PM
1

My starting point was a lot of women enjoy fashion and adornment for there own sake even if biology has other intents.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/15 05:17 PM
1

Right you are, carry on.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/15 05:13 PM
1

Because it has intrinsic value though people will do it regardless of other pay offs.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/15 04:40 PM
1

If your work happens to be fun, well then you have even more incentive to keep doing it. That is intrinsic pleasure right there.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/15 03:58 PM
2

I actually thought this was red pill text with the words swapped round.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/15 03:24 PM
2

I'm still not seeing the fallacy. Are you saying their pleasure is inauthentic somehow? An obese person still gets pleasure from eating. The pleasure is real. They do it because it is "fun", but that is just a proxy for reproduction, that it is fun is just our incentive to do it. It depends on how far you want to take reductionism. To the point of every decision being just a proxy for gene competition? Even if you do take it that far some pleasures remain first order. They may contribute to gene…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/15 03:17 PM
2

Its more complicated than that.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/15 02:52 PM
0

You are using a fallacy here. They "think" that they find the activity fun, but there is a underlying reason for it. But they do find it fun. If you look on /r/makeupaddiction the people are having fun. They are not focused on impressing a mate. You can claim that a person trying to make themselves look beautiful, interesting and attractive is all about genetic reproduction but the direct link was broken some time ago. In that sense people generally have sex not to reproduce but because sex is f…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/15 01:55 PM
0

It is literally a mask. Nothing more. But women find the activity itself fun. People find jewellery, clothes and fashion fun. It is not a mere utilitarian act. You are saying self-actualization is entirely about the physical body not about behaviour.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/15 01:02 PM
0

You think girls don't enjoy playing with make up? You think women don't enjoy fashion? Sure there's mixed reasons, social convention, presentability, courtship, identification. But I just don't think it's right that women don't enjoy those things. Certain forms of feminism have it that "traditional femininity" or "mainstream femininity" is part of "the patriarchy." They regard it as part of the oppressive system of gender. The same goes with exercise. Sure it helps impress other people. We are s…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/15 12:15 PM
3

That seems like a reasonable critique.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/15 11:06 AM
0

I think women "doll up" partly for themselves. It's fun.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/06/15 11:00 AM
-1

Doesn't that amount to the same. Because it matter less a guy has to be a lot more handsome for it to be of value? There's probably a technical economic term for that.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/15 03:02 PM
0

Hey I'm all for a bit of uninformed speculation.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/15 03:00 PM
0

Oh people are still clever monkeys but they'd be living further from nature. They still have desires and fears. The rich have a centuries old tradition of leaving the messy labour of bringing up kids to others. Would people really skip the machine for that hassle? Think of it like junk food. People know its bad for them but still, the time saving, the cost, they just go with it. Whats the difference between leaving it to the wet nurse and leaving to the wet android? If its cheap enough? Oh sure …
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/15 02:52 PM
1

It's not that it doesn't help it's just that it matters more for women. I'd point to the porn verses romance consumption. And it's not just women are prettier. Gay men like visual porn like straight men like their visual porn.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/15 12:29 PM
2

I'm in the UK. Our population is going up. I find it hard to judge with certainty what the effect of automation will be. If creative destruction really has outpaced creation then a crash is inevitable.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/15 10:42 AM
0

TRP thought tends to be conservative leaning so simple solutions to problems like 40% of children being born into fatherless homes cannot be imagined - instead the solution is thought to lie in massive, archaic social engineering campaign to repress sexuality and turn the clock back. Not going to happen. Even if rich countries went through some post automation crash and pulled some "Handmaid's Tale" theocracy it would be as successful as the Iranian Revolution.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/15 10:32 AM
1

RPW can sound like undiagnosed Hybristophiliacs. Remember the Rules. I always thought Red Pill was almost a counter action to that. I imagine a closeted Rules woman in some kind of intense cold war marriage with closeted Red Pill guy. I guess it must happen. EDIT that was pretty random of me A think bubble above both their heads "I rule." Poly? Poly isn't for everyone. I think jealousy is pretty wired in. If jealousy was just culture cuckholdery wouldn't be kicks for folks.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/15 10:25 AM
0

It helps but I don't think women respond to physical appearance as much as men. I couldn't give you a margin.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/15 10:10 AM
1

Until it doesn't. This is the reactionary position. I think modern technology has undone the gender roles. Late industrialisation killed the homemaker. If we automate childcare that would end tradition relationships for good.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/15 10:08 AM
2

You're welcome.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/06/15 07:15 PM
1

I can't see the vanilla female being in short supply any time soon. Despite the impression from reddit, sexual variants of men and women are and always will be a minority. And I hear you say "a good thing too."
/r/PurplePillDebate04/06/15 06:00 PM
1

But what are you asking for here? That you should know everyone's past? Or that they deny their desires? Perhaps. Some desires should be denied. Some desires should never be allowed to develop, in that one's initial flicker of interest should take into account the end game, so that it doesn't take you down the path to becoming, for instance, a comic book nerd or a cat lady or a person who masturbates in soiled diapers. In practical sense how would you stop it? Kink shaming? Or should I say incre…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/06/15 05:57 PM
1

Only if someone is lies about there past. Which is only likely if they pass very well. In which case you would not know. It's unlikely to matter then though right? It very much fucking matters. I refuse to have men successfully disguised as women, anywhere, ever. I refuse to have a male be the beneficiary of my emotions or behaviors intended for a female. I refuse to be tricked, raped or stolen from. A con artist who passes well is a threat; you may not be the one who gets fucked, but somebody w…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/06/15 05:50 PM
1

I have opinions but I'm not an activist. I like reddit for exploring things. Sometimes taboo ideas and politics. There are surely different forms of gay too? There are butch and fem gay males. To me that's gender expression right there. That makes it sound like only gay people have gender expression. But I think most straight people express gender all the time and to express the wrong gender would be very alien. It is not merely clothes. Hey your turn to ask questions.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/06/15 05:38 PM
1

Functionally, factually correct. "Gender" in animals would be exactly coterminous with sex, so any instance where the signalling did not indicate the animal sex correctly would be considered a form of camouflage or subterfuge or something of that nature. Do you think homosexuality has a biological function? It's so common, persistent and widespread in the animal kingdom I reckon it might do. Behaviour can have multiple functions. Rather than it being a strictly dysfunctional trait that persists.…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/06/15 10:40 AM
1

You think deviant and minority sexual identities are a new fad from the internet?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/15 11:07 PM
1

You mean functionally correct within nature or moral correctness? Is this where you are worried about people not disclosing their trans nature?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/15 11:04 PM
1

Without "gender" there would be flags of sex. What would you like to call that hypothetical thing? Gender? Animals certainly have sexual signalling. But they are animals.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/15 09:11 PM
1

So related it is then.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/15 09:04 PM
2

I'm not a huge fan of free will but its good to understand the human mind's workings. It comes back to the humonculus fallacy. But there does seem to be degrees of agency going on. Similarly, we can choose (a little) how we express our sexual drive. There is no inner biology that makes you specifically aroused to watch My Little Pony or to masturbate while wearing diapers or to visit /r/sissyhypno and fantasize yourself as a woman. That is strictly down to taste, or the lack thereof. But we can …
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/15 09:03 PM
1

I would place sexual orientation, gender identity and expression in the one topic. They are generally related, in the sense that there are patterns to their occurrence.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/15 07:38 PM
1

I find it hard to believe people choose to be gay or trans or even have the kinks they have. Sure it's related to the environment but if it was a simple choice then they would choose the one that did not cause as much social rejection. I don't think people can choose their politics and then choose their sexuality.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/15 07:36 PM
1

You believe people choose their sexuality?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/15 07:23 PM
1

Do you think they chose that?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/15 07:20 PM
1

I kind of think if testosterone "fixed" gender issues you might be having we would have been on to it a long time ago. And if natural efforts to change testosterone levels to notable levels we would have warnings on lifestyle patterns that can induce dangerous levels. "Don't eat too much **** or you will get Testosterone poisoning." Seems much of the advice is just about living healthy. At which point testosterone reaches a natural level. In other words not run down. I don't think gender issues …
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/15 05:31 PM
1

Yeah thats all fine. I think I'm roughly agreeing with most of this. What thing is missed is perhaps a biological requirement of a gender flag. Without gender what would sexual attraction be? Clearly there must be sexual signalling. Flags of interest, flags of gender. It's the most basic kind of thing that goes beyond language. I, however, reject taking culture out of the equation. Culture clearly plays a role in constituting the specific normative prescriptions which make up a lot of gender rol…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/15 05:22 PM
1

Which is a far softer claim than the actual claim of gender essentialism. Then what would you call it? Whatever you call it those against gender essentalism will be against it. In addition, "some biological cause" doesn't necessarily exclude phenomena which arise out of biosocial interaction (i.e. out of both nature and nurture combined), and no one would describe a biosocial interactionist as an essentialist. I'm sure pretty much all those people accept that it's an interaction. The debate is a…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/15 12:59 PM
1

I'm testing with testosterone related supplements and excercise, hypnosis aimed for masculinzation and restricting my sexual enjoyment to more traditional & dominant settings. So far it is working in a sense that I'm more comfortable and enjoying more the activities that I aim to, but as expected, It hasn't had removed the preferences of the previous configuration. To be honest that sounds like quackery. Where have you got this idea that testosterone will fix your problems? Have you taken medica…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/15 11:43 AM
3

But gender essentialism is a stronger claim. Gender Essentialism is principally an epistemological claim - it requires either Aristotelian/Moderate Realism or Platonic/Transcendent Realism to be true with respect to the Problem Of Universals. I think it really depends on your definition of essentialism. For most people they see it as a traits with some biological cause, like orientation. Gender and orientation seem similar and related. Orientation is hard to define but most accept it as real and…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/15 11:23 AM
1

Is all gender expression a fetish or only when someone non gender conforming does it?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/15 10:29 AM
1

You're saying there are no psychological differences?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/15 08:49 AM
1

There are no deferences between men and women beyond the physical?
/r/PurplePillDebate02/06/15 11:06 PM
1

Would you accept men and women have essential positive and negative traits? As a red piller what would you say the negative male traits are?
/r/PurplePillDebate02/06/15 10:49 PM
3

Gender essentialism is very much controversial in the feminist community.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/06/15 10:48 PM
1

What is your preferred treatment for trans people?
/r/PurplePillDebate02/06/15 10:47 PM
1

I hear Diamond is junk, seriously, look it up. I've heard some Rawls but I need to read more. I just think no one has answered Hume.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/05/15 10:33 PM
1

Sort of economically leftish, socially conservative?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/05/15 09:03 PM
1

But its all emotion. Reason is only a tool satisfy the emotions. Morality being one of the emotions - Justice, Fraternity, Equality, Freedom. That kind of thing.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/05/15 08:41 PM
1

Where would you say you were politically?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/05/15 08:39 PM
3

The problem is humans have escaped unconscious biology though. They are the moral animal. They have logic, reason, passions, morality, justice, insight. You can't get the ought from the is.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/05/15 08:21 PM
2

What works and what doesn't is just logic. Nobody lives only by logic.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/05/15 08:18 PM
2

How would you describe your moral universe?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/05/15 07:58 PM
4

It's not really supporting them now.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/05/15 11:53 AM
2

The problem is nihilism never really builds, does it? It's about decadence, decay and degeneration. There is no society to build. Once you want to have society you have to step away from it.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/05/15 11:31 AM
3

But then self centred hedonism makes as much sense as selfless fanaticism.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/05/15 11:12 AM
1

Morality is a very difficult subject. But no society lives without it.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 04:38 PM
1

Aspects of morality. Why do you ask? Do you have a sense of right and wrong?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 03:21 PM
1

You can't really go through life assuming the worst from most people, can you though? It's like assuming the very best from most people. It's not going to happen and people will get hurt.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 12:55 PM
0

But is it wrong?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 08:11 AM
4

The Halo Effect can be true and men can still commit more crime, violence and disorder than women. You don't believe in the blank slate right?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 12:33 AM
1

People shouldn't use social manipulation to get others to do things they don't want to do?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/15 12:31 AM
2

I would wager that in those societies listed that men still carry out a disproportionate amount of crime. You understand that its hard to believe there are no innate traits when some features of gender appear consistantly across all time and cultures. I have no issue with this one. I don't think there is a problem saying that orientation could be biological, the point of this post is that I don't think sexual strategy is biologically gender specific. How do you explain gender non conformity in c…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/15 01:38 PM
2

Men and women are different behaviorally, perhaps not biologically but just culturally. Think about boys being raised not to cry after a point; girls getting dresses and dolls, being called princesses and having their first complement being how pretty they are. I can elaborate further but in essence it's that due to differences in being raised men and women will inevitably be different. Transgenderism is (a symptom of) a problem. The individuals don't deserve to be bullied and shouldn't get blam…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/15 11:07 AM
7

The blank slate model is one thing that annoys me most about blue pill. I kind of hope its something that there might be progress on. That is that blue pill people might have to understand the world with the acceptance that men and women are different. The clear variation in sexual desires is a good place to start.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/15 03:14 PM
1

You are proposing some kind of religious war to expend spare men on?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/15 02:47 PM
2

The pill changed things but I think other birth control methods helped too. It's also kind of hard not to see white goods as part of the revolution. Hard to have the feminist revolution without the white goods revolution.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/15 02:41 PM
2

Yeah that was more like what I wanted to read thanks.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/05/15 02:12 PM
1

I just wanted some examples, an outline from yourself. Maybe something you did before that you don't do now.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/05/15 12:47 PM
1

So what is that you do inside marriage with the red pill?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/05/15 12:25 PM
1

But it's not pressure from "feminising society." It's more like the popularity of games and the internet. Life offers more distractions from sports and sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/15 05:40 PM
-2

Oh Christ not more pressure on men to enjoy sports. Red pill claims we live in a feminised world yet we have sports news on the hour every hour. It's like a live update on the state of world masculinity. I guess feminism doesn't complain about this so much as its one area that lesbians and the average man agrees.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/15 02:54 PM
1

It is annoying but generally male desire is greater than female desire. I'm not red pill but that's one area I'd agree. So it isn't going to change.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/15 02:41 PM
1

I can see tyrants and dictators having sex appeal. I'm just concious that it comes with other problems. Perhaps many of us might view red pill in a similar light.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/15 09:34 AM
0

It's stupid to tell people what they should want or be. There might be a lot of dommes who were repressed by slut-shaming or by being told "women don't enjoy sex as much as men". Like fuck we do. Same goes for thinking sub men are somehow emotionally damaged. Red pill and a lot of blue pill are anti kink, anti flipped sex roles. red pill blames "the media" for creating people with "unnatural" sexual desires. anti sex blue pill blames porn for creating men with "fetishistc" sexual desires They ju…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/15 02:57 PM
1

I think gay people are born that way. I don't think people pick up their sexuality from porn, slash fiction, comics or the internet. Sure there's cultural factors but even then we don't understand how they work so try to apply a rule will fail. Even the patterns in kinks point to biological routes.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/15 02:27 PM
1

Are you saying sub desires come from the media or not?
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/15 09:04 AM
1

80% seems a bit high to me.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/15 09:02 AM
-3

They seem like closet BDSM sub females. Because they are closeted they can't admit they are submissive, that's for freaks. The rest of the world has it wrong. Like red pill, "its a just a choice but everyone ought to do it our way."
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/15 12:08 AM
1

You think submissive males have inauthentic orgasms? They aren't really enjoying sub sex? When a sub male goes to a pro domme for femdom its because he has failed to understand he'd be happier as a dominant man? I don't want to put words in your mouth but is that what you are thinking?
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 11:58 PM
1

Are you saying progressive tropes in the media in the last two decades created sexually submissive desires in males?
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 09:27 PM
1

Plunger penises don't necessarily imply female choice though. Have you read Sex at Dusk? I understand that's the rebuttal. It's not that I think people are exclusively monogamous. I think there are competing strategies in place. Contemporary monogamy is a compromise. It's always a compromise. I worry that popular polyamory would lead to polygamy. As it exists in most places. That is a minority of powerful men would monopolise women. You know the cliché of a man who drags his wife to a swingers c…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 08:12 PM
1

Well I guess we all pick our sex scientists by our sex politics. A causal search reveals articles like this. http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/07/how-strong-is-the-female-sex-drive-after-all/277429/ You would at least agree Sex at Dawn was controversial. You'll be aware of the criticism of him. I think the poly community got too hung up on Ryan. It's not that people aren't poly, its that "we are all naturally poly," that irks. Kind of like the idea we are "all naturally bi." I recall…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 07:27 PM
3

The issue is blue pill is blank slate. "Bad sexuality" like sexually dominant men and submissive women comes from the gender roles in society. If men are submissive then it goes against that narrative. It is then viewed that porn has caused submissive men. It baffles me that the red pill claims dominant men are not lauded in the media. Seems more like the norm.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 06:29 PM
3

But none of it encourages male submissiveness right?
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 05:56 PM
2

Blue pill would say dominant male sexuality comes from culture. "Why BDSM? Porn! that is why." I don't think crazy male sexuality comes from porn.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 05:34 PM
1

I still think men have a higher sex drive. I'd say "Sex at Dawn" has been successful challenged many times. It sounds like wishful thinking rather than science. Too much blank slate for me.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 05:31 PM
1

Sometimes I read what trp says and it sounds like a dom male BDSM lifestyle done badly. The kind sub women complain about on boards.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 04:26 PM
1

Yeah their stats conform with my experience in the scene. I'm not clear on how that compares to non kink people. I just assume women are less kink focused.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 04:22 PM
4

Yeah but its not culture is it? The desire comes first, then the culture. There is "pussy whipped" meaning a happy woman and an unhappy male in a female lead relationship AND there is a happy couple in a female lead relationship which is a different thing. Red pill would say "pussy whipped" male is undersexed and unhappy. But yes its more complicated than what the red pill says.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 02:41 PM
6

This is one of the problems I have with blue pill. If we are blank slates and male desire is at least formed by culture where do straight male submissives come from? Culture is set against it, red pill, blue pill, Hollywood, childrens cartoons, romantic fiction. But there it is. Of course it goes against red pill ideology, at least some aspects.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 02:22 PM
1

3% dommes sounds about right. But 50% males as subs? No nothing like it. I don't have a stat to throw handy. But most BDSM porn is for a male market and most BDSM is the Mf dynamic. Majority BDSM culture is Mf dynamic. But then men are just more into sex than women. And men are more into BDSM. Anyone have some decent stats? OKC?
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 02:02 PM
0

And yeah I'm kind of with you on the polygamy play out. In the kink scene poly is common. If I'm asked I would say I fear that a more popular poly society would lead to some men holding all the women. It's not like I don't have society examples to point at. But then as a social liberal I'd say people can do what they want. I'm kind of caught in between.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 12:32 PM
0

What I fear is that the relationship between resources and relationships. I'm for personal liberty and people choosing the kind of relationships they want, who they sleep with and who they marry. But I don't just worry culture matters, I fear the culture comes from economic reality. If science, technology and progress enfranchises the common man (and I mean man) then it can de enfranchise them if it swings in other ways. Its the question of neo feudalism. Of course dark enlightenment would embra…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 12:27 PM
2

The weird thing about serial killers is the love mail they get. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybristophilia All our cultures view serial killers negatively and view women who love serial killers negatively. I guess it could be a warped outcome of gender roles. But I suspect both have a more biological cause.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 11:57 AM
0

Note that if all men were red pill, all raised their value it might not make much difference in theory as the women would still be sleeping with the alpha males. Unless the alpha males were forced to improve themselves again. Sexual market value in a polygamy society is somewhat zero sum, like a sports league. All the winnings go to the top. Unless there is no top or the winnings are shared out (monogamy).
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 11:12 AM
0

Yes and no. Remember we're dealing with a few different codes and cultural customs here. The closest thing we have to understand RP world is something like the dark enlightenment. Perhaps something like pre 20th century Western relationship values. Or maybe traditional polygamy. The "The Moral Animal" by Robert Wright covers ideas about the origin of moral codes. Probably not approved reading by the red pill, but then probably not blue pill either. In there he says most societies in the world ar…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 11:05 AM
0

Maybe I'm in a different world but I don't recognise the absolute totality of this lie being told to men. I see competing voices. Part of knack of living is picking out those opinion that work for you. Red pill lifestyle is not going to work for everyone. It represents things traditional values that did not work for them and they are trying to get away from. That's not say all "blue pill" ideas work or that "red pill" ideas cannot work. It's horses for courses. Even though a chunk of red pill fo…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 10:10 AM
1

its not you its me Isn't this the most common white lie told by anyone leaving a relationship. It's a euphemism employed to spare our feelings. One of things everyone just needs to learn rather than a big mean lie.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/15 09:31 AM
2

Are you asking us if we've met feminist women who seem to date misogynistic men? I'm met a few. The women loudly boast about the great relationship they have with their man. Everyone is too polite to point out the kind of guy they are dating - its their relationship. The ones I know had kids and had super awkward break ups. I kind of think these women are closet submissives. They would never see themselves as submissive, they don't do BDSM, but from an outsiders view they seem to show some trait…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/15 10:22 PM
1

Are you offering something better than democracy?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/15 07:01 PM
1

It would end up being one of those countries they have to build a wall round to stop people leaving.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/15 06:55 PM
1

Yeah its complicated. But isn't mostly about being polite? I think both sides might agree people need to be polite. But then I'm from the UK which is culturally slightly different. The US, which I guess is where you are coming from generally has a cultural tradition of directness. Being polite is very useful for getting things done. It can aid communication to achieve mutual goals without getting misdirected with emotional political reactions. I recall watching a you tube recently about a US cop…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/15 11:08 AM
-1

What is it though that you feel you can't do you'd like to do or say to minorities that you can't? I think most people accept political correctness can go too far. But then most red pill people would take it too far in the opposite direction.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/15 09:59 AM
1

Ah right I see. It can just seem like an odd contrast between trp saying "women are such terrible sluts," and "here is how to sleep with sluts."
/r/PurplePillDebate03/05/15 06:07 PM
1

In an ideal red pill society women do not sleep around. If red pill ideas are accepted more then women would be less likely to sleep around. Leading to men having to marry younger to get sex. Women would be faithful but demand marriage. In order for men to sleep around before marriage requires "sluts," which red pill theory would disapprove of. If red pill is just a guide on getting sex then this doesn't matter. If it's concerned with how society ought to be it seems like a problem.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/05/15 05:30 PM
3

I think a liberal society is generally more tolerant of different lifestyles. I'm not saying it entirely works and I'm interested in hearing different ideas about. You are probably right, I'm sure a balance could be struck where you could have a bit of "liberalism" But liberal society seems perfectly fine with a man and woman marrying in a church of their choice. He works and she stays at home. They are faithful and have kids who they bring up with their own ethos. They have their liberty to cho…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/05/15 05:25 PM
2

So who is he having sex with?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/05/15 02:53 PM
2

Is the older man celibate until he marries?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/05/15 02:46 PM
2

There are so many ways for men and women to be unhappy living in a very socially liberal world. I think over all people are happier in a more liberal social environment. I don't doubt there are still problems. But social conservationism has a blanket no to so many people. There is no place for them in that society. I think a liberal society is generally more tolerant of different lifestyles. I'm not saying it entirely works and I'm interested in hearing different ideas about. Ultimately social l…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/05/15 02:45 PM
2

Isn't this pretty much the religious conservative view of life. Yes, probably because it worked I think it only worked for a small segment. There are so many ways for men and women to be unhappy living in a very socially conservative world. I reckon all kinds of tech arrived and dismantled it.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/05/15 12:56 PM
3

Seems a bit idealistic. Isn't this pretty much the religious conservative view of life. Seems a bit unrealistic compared to actual human behaviour. I always thought there was a lot of lying and hypocrisy being done by everyone in that mindset.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/05/15 11:59 AM
1

So ideally a man and woman would marry early and not sleep around?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/05/15 10:41 AM
2

those goofy fuckheads that we see in all the sitcoms and commercials these days As accurate as "goofy fuckheads" is, they need a proper name.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/04/15 05:29 PM
1

Where does love fit into that?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/04/15 09:39 AM
1

Are promiscuous men statistically more likely to cheat?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/04/15 09:23 AM
2

The guy who fucks a new girl everyday, is that getting in the way of other goals? Is it causing problems with others? If not, then I don't see the problem. If the lonely virgin was too hung up on sex, then maybe it was wrong. Maybe there were better routes for him. Hypothetically even if he'd tried blue and red pills. They are no guarantee.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/15 09:08 PM
1

I guess it depends on other factors. It's hard to say if there was anything right or wrong about either of those cases relationship to sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/15 08:57 PM
4

"Because men are horny and women are the gatekeepers." I'm not red pill, but that is a very blue pill question to me. And reminds me why I am not blue pill. Men are just so much more sexually focused than women. Even if that is only by a few degrees, over a large population that will create a distinct profile of men. Of course the difference is relative. Is it men are too focused on sex or women under sexed?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/15 04:50 PM
1

Consent in BDSM is not just about sex. It's also about verbal abuse, degredation all the common BDSM activities. Within that field it overlaps with activities suggested by trp - such as negging, dark triad behaviour, dread gaming, objectification, domination. BDSM acknowledges we can have primary urges which are dangerous and anti social but applies rules of respect and consent to safely use them for sex and emotional purposes. TRP seems wilfully uninterested in respect or consent. BDSM has been…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/15 11:01 AM
1

BDSM culture has a problem with TRP ideas The lack of consent within TRP goes against basic rules of BDSM which are there to protect both parties. Ignoring consent means a world of trouble. The fixed gender roles goes against the diversity of sexuality and activities in BDSM. BDSM is an opt culture where as TRP seems more to have an analysis of one perspective that it applies to all of society. From a BDSM perspective it looks like TRP advocates a 24 hour lifestyle male dom with sub female. With…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/15 09:17 AM
1

I think its a mixed picture. But defining gender is still an issue. We tend to talk equality then act as the genders have set roles. Certainly radical feminism does not accept this. I need to think about clear examples. Though courtship might be the best.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/15 09:05 AM
6

I'm guessing feminists don't want to dictate to men what masculinity is. Men should decide what masculinity is just as women should decide what femininity means to them. I think what we find attractive occurs at a subconscious level. We do not choose to find X attractive. People can't define what masculinity is in the same way they can't decide to be attracted to it. Sexual orientation surely has to be more than an attraction to primary and secondary physical characteristics. But we are squeamis…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/15 12:18 AM
3

I'm not conservative, neo reactionary or red pill. And I wouldn't say I was transphobic. Maybe too essentialist, evo psych for blue pill.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/15 11:50 PM
6

Sure. But that I still feel that avoids any awkward questions. And awkward questions are the interesting ones. I think mainstream progress politics general opts for the different but equal position. It works mostly. Where does it not work? Perhaps in dating advice?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/15 11:47 PM
6

I think you are dodging the question. The implication is women (generally) don't want a literal equal, they want masculine men. But define positive masculine values? Does this mean earning more? Aggression? Passion? Power? Talent? I feel the feminist framework has left people silent on what is attractive about masculinity and men. I guess it depends on the flavour of feminism.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/15 11:42 PM
1

So you are more the hedonist wing of red pill rather than the neo reactionary?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/15 11:33 PM
1

I guess neo reactionary is another term.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/15 11:29 PM
1

Nope but there seems to be overlap between red pill and the dark enlightenment.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/15 11:24 PM
1

And?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/15 10:52 PM
2

By unappealing you mean that it will never have much impact?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/15 10:33 PM
3

Tell that to red pill folks who think this is related to politics.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/15 10:26 PM
3

And you can see it has a limited audience outside of men who are devoted to casual sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/15 10:05 PM
-1

Pretty sure have the "out there" style rape fantasies. Just rarer.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/15 10:01 PM
0

But BDSM isn't red pill, right?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/15 09:49 PM
0

So all the women who say they have harsh rape fantasies are lying?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/15 07:51 PM
2

Yeah but it's not big enough to be a big tent like a national political party. It's pretty new and relatively small. And people keep telling me its is just X or just Y. It can't be both an amoral party animal and seek political leadership. I can't see it continuing to pretending to be both.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/15 07:46 PM
7

I wish the red pill would make up its mind as whether its an amoral guide for getting sex or an ultra conservative social movement. They really can't have it both ways.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/15 07:22 PM
0

How is this different from BDSM theory?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/15 06:59 PM
0

You have a rape fantasy fantasy.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/15 06:51 PM
1

I can accept it more from kink perspective than a trp. Red pill seems more judgemental on everyone else. All women are like X. All men can are like Y. BDSM has limits and respect.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/15 08:12 PM
1

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/false+consciousness What Marxists used to say people had inside capitalism. No I am not a Marxist. Maybe "brain washed" is another term. Think of people inside a cult. They act in what would appear to be against their own interests. Anyone can accuse everyone else of it. But I would still argue it does exist.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/15 06:33 PM
1

Hate seems a bit strong for most here. It's debate here. "Do you have an intellectual problem with RPW?" I'm not sure I know enough about them. I only stumbled across trp as it grew. RPW seems like women desiring conservative gender relations. I don't mind them following their own lifestyles. I might agree on some points. Some might have "false conciousness" to use old jargon. Some might be better acquainted with BDSM. Some might be trying to impose traditional sexual roles on men. Not all men r…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/04/15 12:23 PM
2

You think men should be drafted? I'm in the UK so some of this is not so relevant. I suspect that most men would have been against giving men the the vote initially. I expect most women may have been against women getting the vote at the start. By your line "Men wanted to give women the right to vote as early as the 1830s," I expect by this you mean some men. And you do believe inequality in regard to other rights? You sound extremely grudging in giving basic human rights.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/04/15 04:12 PM
1

Do you think women should have the right to vote?
/r/PurplePillDebate20/04/15 03:26 PM
1

I'm thinking of the classic issues of women's rights. Do you have evidence first wave feminism was based on hatred of men rather than human rights? Do you advocate a patriarchy?
/r/PurplePillDebate20/04/15 01:12 PM
2

Only extremists have an accurate view of the world? More like they have a couple truths right and everything else is distorted. Would you class yourself as a misanthropist?
/r/PurplePillDebate20/04/15 12:49 PM
2

Good analysis. Women are biologically formed to carry infants for 9 months, and are thus the sexual selectors. Therefore, it is unnatural for women to have a high number count. I fucking hate whores, let's all make fun of their misery. I find this is both my respect and dislike of right wing politics. Self improvement, knowledge is power, will to act is all good. The fear and loathing of the weak or outsider is bad.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/04/15 12:34 PM
5

All people are trash. "If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole." This sounds like cynical, misanthropy. It's kind of tempting but it makes for ugly personalities. There's also the bad world spiral. It's a bad world, therefore I must be a bastard. That's not to say nice guys ought or do finish first. But playing the bastard has noticeable side effects.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/04/15 11:52 AM
0

Why not? Because as I understand history women were restricted in society in all kinds of ways, such as property ownership and politics. But you know this right? Or do you dispute this? You think there isn't infighting in feminism? I don't see how you can see it as monolithic.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/15 11:09 PM
1

I don't think feminism started as a hatred of men. I think as its interpreted today its kind of mixed. There is a clash between different feminisms. I don't think liberal feminism is driven by hate of men. There are factions of feminism that have a kind of hatred of men. But two wrongs do not make a right. It's not a game of "Don't look look at us, look at them they said X."
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/15 10:42 PM
0

So you'd say a person could find a misogynist comment but its not a core part red pill. Would you say male genocide is a core part of feminism?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/15 10:28 PM
-1

Can you find any examples of misogyny from the red pill that is in context?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/15 10:06 PM
3

It sounds like it would be unfathomable to you that feminists who offer misandry AND misogyny within the red pill could both be wrong.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/15 10:03 PM
1

When you say "bad girls," you mean sexually uninhibited? Is that the right meaning here? Fairy certain men do go for bad girls. Here's a classic. Man marries "good girl," virgin, modest, home maker. Then spends the rest of his life chasing "bad girls" on the side once he's bored with his conservative wife. By no means are all conservative women sexually inhibited. But there is a relationship. Sex negative women (including left wing women) rely on men bringing all the desire into the relationship…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/04/15 05:00 PM
1

Can you give me a citation for most societies being based on barter prior to Rome?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/04/15 05:49 PM
1

Doctor, you mentioned the ratio of ten women to each man. Now, wouldn't that necessitate the abandonment of the so-called monogamous sexual relationship, I mean, as far as men were concerned?
/r/PurplePillDebate13/04/15 08:00 PM
1

Yeah I was thinking of the whole package too, not just physically attractive.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/04/15 06:31 PM
3

"Babe. If you have to call yourself an Alpha. You're not one." To be fair a red pill person could easily say this.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/04/15 05:43 PM
1

Is he red pill though or just a very attractive man?
/r/PurplePillDebate13/04/15 05:41 PM
1

In what way is it not the same thing? It's already well established that markets don't need money to function What I mean is a market with money operates differently than one without. Love and sex have characteristics that money does not cover. But I am fine with looking at market aspects of it. And no, I don't mean part of a spectrum, I mean they are different types of transactions occurring in the same market. But you can't buy love. And you don't really choose who you love. People don't have …
/r/PurplePillDebate13/04/15 09:46 AM
1

You do appreciate I said it had similar aspects but has distinctions right? It's not just the same thing. As for your last comment, I don't think there is any difference between the sexual market and sex work. Sex work by definition implies that sex has a value and can be purchased through an exchange of resources, which is directly implied by the term sexual market place. They're merely two sides of the same coin. Or do you mean part of a spectrum? I don't want to put words in your mouth but ar…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/04/15 08:47 PM
2

You don't need money to have an economy, barter markets existed for millenia before currency was ever a thing. Well, that's open to debate. Can you give an example of a society that operated by barter economy? Barter markets have never really existed, apparently. As I understand it Adam Smith was wrong and that before currency there was little barter. Credit was used instead. Your contention that the exchange of sex for resources isn't sustainable is flat out wrong. I mean for relationships. You…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/04/15 07:13 PM
5

I should say it's meant to be the same guy. Could be a jealous mother, it happens, but not in this case. I don't see how her upping her game will change his behaviour. Sounds like "I can change him" thinking. He tests how much bad boy behaviour she will put up with and still love him. I guess the question is "is she happy?" I guess its all fun and games until a baby appears.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/04/15 01:33 PM
5

I'd also say I am not RP or BP. I think most people would find RP too harsh or BP too idealised. Both in action and analysis.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/04/15 01:20 PM
7

Do I think sexual relations are a market place? Kind of. But there are problems with the analogy. There is no equivalent of money. Not everyone is in the same market. All men like X and all women like Y isn't true. Some things are worth more than others. Love is worth more than causal affection. Exchanges of different things - sex in exchange for commodities don't have a great history of sustainability. (But that's not a condemnation of sex work) But relationships can feel more like trade than m…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/04/15 01:19 PM
1

I still think visual gay porn is more consumed by men. Where as slash fiction gay porn is more consumed by women. Though I have no stats.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/04/15 12:42 PM
10

Your daughter brings home a red pill guy. Tall, athletic, confident, intelligent, charismatic. When he is not in the room she expresses her desire to marry him. When you see them together you see him exhibit controlling behaviour including demeaning her self confidence. It was clearly a premeditated action. Through a coworker you meet a mother who tells you of her daughter being messed around by some guy who's been playing the field, making false marriage proposals and keeping multiple partners …
/r/PurplePillDebate12/04/15 12:38 PM
7

Sure. I can half believe it. The birth pill has disrupted socially conservative family values. The sponsors of this video are socially conservative and would like society to maintain strong family values. Without those values they believe men will become irresponsible and women will be driven to promiscuity. I don't see anything justifying amoral male mating behaviour. I'm not socially conservative but I appreciate a concern for the shape of society. I think their concern is genuine and agree te…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/04/15 12:28 PM
3

I think most people accept and certainly act like male and female sexuality is generally different. If you check out gay culture it is far more sexual objectification. That's what male sexual objectification looks like.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/04/15 09:56 AM
1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybristophilia
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/15 11:30 PM
2

No its the amorality that's a problem. Ambition without responsibility.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/15 11:03 PM
5

But this is the "glamour of evil" right? The Ballad of Mack the Knife et al. And hey maybe you hide your amorality up your sleeve. Just don't expect everyone to cheer the idea on. The red pill in full flow sounds like Littlefinger giving his "Chaos is a Ladder" speech.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/15 10:53 PM
1

Hypocrisy is perfectly reasonable. Sexual strategy is amoral. What who why? Who says this kind of thing? If someone walks around boasting of hypocrisy and amorality in a day to day context I'd think they were a danger and unhinged.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/15 10:35 PM
1

You mean there is freak, normal and conservative appearance. And you recommend normal because normal is best?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/15 05:34 PM
1

I really don't think red pill thinkers are aware of the history of the topic. Those that do seem to take the burrow right down to far right politics. There is no branching to anywhere moderate.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/15 02:25 PM
1

You've taken incorrect view of biology - "Social Darwinism." Applied it incorrectly to humans - "Appeal to nature." And incorrectly assumed this is a simple left right battle - "war of all against all."
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/15 02:23 PM
3

Does that mean that a lack of tattoos, piercing and dyed hair might signal lack of sexual appetite, emotional coldness, dispassion, rigid ideals, uncreative and dead bedrooms?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/15 02:08 PM
3

I'm confused that proto red pill men hadn't noticed a culture of intense competition in the world. Most people are somewhere between these black and white views of the world. My take on transactional perception depends on what's being traded. Most people would accept mutual love and attraction. Anything less is dicey. If a man sees all women as whores that's who he'll be with. If a woman sees all men all as sex mad bastards that's who she'll end up with.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/04/15 08:26 AM
4

It made me more aware of men who blame their problems on others instead of turning inward and bettering themselves. Self improvement is a fine thing. But I'm confused about men saying they had not noticed this. So much of the modern world is blatant competition for talent, skills, attractiveness, money, sex. Then as if someone says "ah I'm meant to compete? oh I get it now." That seems an odd angle.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/15 10:22 PM
2

I'd say machines have allowed the "atomized" life more possible. It makes us less reliant on other in a personal way. Really? It's pretty common idea that's been around for a while. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomised https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone We can use porn and entertainment more, rather than needing real people. You're still a social being. It's just how we're made. Yeah I agree. I think desocialization only goes so far. The net only works so far against it. WIth more tec…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/15 07:48 PM
1

The world wide web was only developed in the 80's though, Technically the 70s. But we aren't splitting hairs here. The basics of the internet started in the 60s but the web is from 1989.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/15 07:05 PM
2

The one thing technology has definitely done was bring us closer together, for better or for worse. Uh? You mean on line? I'd say machines have allowed the "atomized" life more possible. It makes us less reliant on other in a personal way. We can use porn and entertainment more, rather than needing real people. I think it is. As a father take care of your family, work with your wife, balance power, produce functioning adults, have fun doing it, and die. Yeah thats just the kind of simple life on…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/15 06:37 PM
2

To be specific I'm seeing this as a 20th Century thing. At the beginning looking after a house takes a lot of time - cooking, cleaning, washing, mending clothes. All not including child care. By the end all of that has changed by machines, fridges, cheap clothes, vacuums. I think culture lags behind machines. If you're family produced you, and you're a functioning adult, your family values matter and are important. It's not a simple as that though is it?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/15 06:21 PM
1

The industrial revolution is far from over.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/15 05:42 PM
2

white goods, birth pills, mobiles and machines changes what we are. These are all things that we had throughout time. I'd disagree. "Home making" was a job then machines in the home, modern food production, cheaper manufacturing has made that role redundant. This has made single life for men and women a thing. Child care however is still very much a job. "Family values are important" it depends on what you mean by those "values" and "important."
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/15 05:41 PM
2

I think culture is often shaped by technology. We may have paleo brains but the environment of white goods, birth pills, mobiles and machines changes what we are.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/15 05:13 PM
2

I agree though I do think there are social changes going on. Old conservative values cannot be tacked on to the modern world. But blue pill models are fragile and lifestyles are really prototypes.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/15 05:03 PM
2

I kind of wonder if it will properly split into the hedonist sex faction and the political faction.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/15 04:46 PM
2

I keep being told its a social movement and/or part politics. It's either a manual for hedonistic amorality or the recreation wing of the Dark Enlightenment.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/15 04:44 PM
1

ah I mean the proposed model the red pill offers of how society is rather than how it is presented. Literally, what taking the red pill lets you see.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/15 05:34 PM
1

I was being sarcastic. like I said the dark triad shit is when people take these ideas to the most extreme possible conclusion. It's hard to tell what is sarcasm here. Very hard. if you would read the whole sidebar including the misandry bubble you would understand that the red pill is more like a loose collection of related ideas that are open to quite a bit of personal interpretation. I don't think you realise how toxic some of the ideas are. It's like saying offering a salad bar, here's some …
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/15 10:20 AM
1

I'm just reacting to items I see here. Split it into three if you like. Self improvement and charm which no one has a problem with. The social model of men and women, this is contentious. I'm only partially with trp on this. The dark stuff, all the bits that make trp taboo.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/15 09:09 AM
1

Having certain traits in common with Dark Triad does not make that individual a Dark Triad individual. That's true. But trying to emulate the very worst of humanity seems reckless. If they are not dark triads it would be because they have other traits that compensate for those interests. Other traits like compassion, empathy, basic humanity. Not traits I see the red pill taking much interest in.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/15 09:03 AM
1

I don't know them well enough to comment. All I did is come here and debate. That's how I found out red pill people see it as part of the DE. Do the elders have a problem with that?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/15 08:56 AM
2

I wasn't really suggesting that no. my point was it is open to interpretation. even the people who do post to the redpill have more depth to their personality as people than you can discern from reading a coment they wrote. You seem to be dancing round admitting that the red pill is the red pill. They could be reading poetry to orphans in their spare time but that's not what gets discussed here. Here they are defending the use of the word cum dumpster. but that's taking the most extreme interpre…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/04/15 10:11 PM
2

how do you know? how do you judge the interpretations of red pillers who don't post to r/theredpill based on the interpretations of the smaller percentage of subscribers that do? Well I came here to find out about it. Are you claiming that online red pill folks are unrepresentative of "the real" red pillers? This sounds amazing. Do you have evidence of this? It would be really interesting to find the offline people are utterly different to the online groups. It's already enmeshed in a list of ac…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/04/15 05:02 PM
3

Sure, yes it could be something else but it isn't. It's already enmeshed in a list of activities the average person would balk at.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/04/15 04:15 PM
1

Actually I kind of assume that would be BP thinking. The kind of BP thinking that makes me not BP.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/04/15 03:39 PM
3

I didn't realise how connected it was to that politics until I came here. I'm also sure now that TRP will not be anything like mainstream. The rest of society isn't about to sign up to the Dark Enlightenment.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/04/15 02:33 PM
8

The red pill cannot be just about self improvement, its also misogyny, dark triad, cruelty, neo reactionary politics. The acceptable part isn't radical and the radical part isn't acceptable.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/04/15 09:13 AM
0

But it can't all be socially constructed right? Orientation is not a social construct. What is it that we mean when we say someone finds a sex attractive?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/15 11:30 PM
0

If you don't think white skin is still the most attractive, Do you mean that white is aesthetically better or that white skin is popular?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/15 11:27 PM
1

The really point point them becomes explaining orientation as attraction to something other than biology. By that I mean is attraction just focused on genitalia? What is it that orientation is finding attractive? Seems like a reasonable scientific question.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/15 09:38 PM
1

Is this like libertarian conservatism then? A powerful state autocracy economic freedom no social policies no welfare an aristocracy conservative personal values with no state coercion something like that?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/15 02:25 PM
1

I guess there is a difference between having the state interfere with personal lives and it merely be socially taboo. I think it counts as something like Libertarian conservatism, except without democracy. So for state intervention except if it helps the poor or social outsiders. And against social outsiders but without state.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/15 12:04 PM
1

So more like Dubai. Though it seems odd to say libertarian when it is only for economic liberties and not personal liberties. That seems more like traditional general far right politics. Are there any social libertarian aspects? How much would the state act on people's personal lives?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/15 11:31 AM
1

out of interest what is your position? why not red or blue?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/15 11:24 AM
1

Are the men supposed to be faithful?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/15 09:22 AM
2

So I have learned today. I wouldn't take advice on romance from belief system that sounds like the baddies in a steampunk themed computer game.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/15 12:12 AM
1

Saudi Arabia?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/03/15 12:05 AM
1

Neoreactionary? So not libertarian then? I was also told by the mod of the red pill that it was amoral movement. So confused about what it is now.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/03/15 09:21 PM
0

I'm just lost as to what its all supposed to mean now.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/03/15 07:39 PM
3

I'm totally confused about what red pill is supposed to be now. I thought it was hedonistic amoral philosophy built around the pursuit of sex. I thought it was not interested in the "long-term stability of society." How can it have an "appreciation for traditional institutions like marriage." Surely institutions are only to be used to get more sex? Red pill is not social conservative personal values, right?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/03/15 07:18 PM
1

I'd say there is different kinds of nice guys. I'd say their opposite is the bastard. There are different kinds of bastards too. When red pill imagines the fat ugly slut, I think the rest of the world knows exactly who they are talking about. There is judgement there the rest of the world exercises too. The red pill would say the rest of the world judges and the blue pill is in denial. But then world judges studs too. They come in lots of forms. Cads, bounders, cassanovas, and probably bastards.…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/03/15 07:08 PM
3

I don't understand this.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/03/15 06:53 PM
1

Can you be a stud and a nice guy?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/03/15 06:17 PM
2

how would you handle it now?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/03/15 10:38 AM
1

How is it in a person who lives in a community of other humans' "rational" self interest to operate utterly without regard to the wants, needs and desires of others? If a rational egoist can get away with it why not? We would have to believe that cheating the system never works. Violence, deception, fraud, manipulation, coercion, bribery, corruption can all be used to achieve self interest. A rational egoist is not interested in fuzzy notion of good so the need only be interested in the public a…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/03/15 11:26 AM
1

hey I have been known not to read links in debates to websites. Just answer my question. Give me a retort. You must have answered this before.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/03/15 05:48 PM
1

Are you saying there has been no progress? Where are you on Pinker's "The Better Angels of Our Nature"
/r/PurplePillDebate24/03/15 05:44 PM
1

Not to care about one's reputation in the community doesn't sound very rational, even from rational egoist point of view. A reputation of selfishness pretty much universal negative. More rational to hide it surely. A rational egoist surely would not have a problem lying?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/03/15 05:43 PM
2

Even if they said I think they do I think they're kidding themselves.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/03/15 05:27 PM
0

I guess you are supplying just-so-evo-psych stories not to say evo-psych is always wrong but they are hard to verify and anyone can make up stories to justify what ever politics they like. Good job, carry on.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/03/15 05:23 PM
1

Yeah that attitude won't work outside a couple circles.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/03/15 04:48 PM
1

But you can see why people do not trust explicit rational egoists, right? Someone who says they always put themselves first. Even if I was trying to adhere to this philosophy I would not say out loud. It kind of gives your hand away.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/03/15 04:40 PM
1

Sorry I mean rational egoism then. I can see plenty of situations that rational egoism does prevent actions I would happily label evil. I feel its perfectly rational to distrust someone who claims to be a rational egoist.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/03/15 04:19 PM
1

It seems to matter if you mean empathy from the particular definition meaning which means others can never have empathy for others. Which I half agree with. Empathy is stretched the more different the other gets. Or does it might an empathy as a general sense of kindness, charity, care and understanding?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/03/15 02:38 PM
4

But humans don't want to just "eat, shit and fuck." That would seem like the definition of unconscious. We are self aware. Even if the self awareness came from biological computer brain trying to solve survival problems.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/03/15 02:10 PM
1

Are you saying you feel empathy, pity and understanding but prefer to suppress those feelings because it would get in the way of casual sex?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/03/15 02:04 PM
1

So you say we should go against nature and not empathise with women. Rather than going against empathise with both?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/03/15 02:00 PM
1

Yeah I really don't get how the morality of ethical egoism is supposed to work. Seems like there are plenty of moral issues it would come out with what I would call bad at best. Other times it sounds like it stretches self interest so far there is no difference from altruism.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/03/15 01:58 PM
6

lol, well there you go do the women you're with not care or not realise?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/03/15 09:07 PM
6

do you empathize with women?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/03/15 08:47 PM
1

It's true if you put hedonism at the top of your motivations, then hedonism is your motivation. Just don't think you've convinced the rest of society that is a good idea for you to do that. Don't think that society is going to emulate you. And don't be surprised when you come into conflict with the rest of society.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/03/15 08:25 PM
5

Ah well I guess that's that then. I don't find Ayn Rand very convincing.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/03/15 08:19 PM
1

I can't give you a good definition. I can't give you a good definition of good and evil either. But it matters a lot. These are very messy, tricky subjects. But also eternal subjects that have obsessed humans for all of history. I suspect if you are on reddit debating society and ultimately philosophy that you think these subjects play on your mind too. Why would a true hedonist waste their time asking these questions? Would not a true hedonist be out pursing the finest women, food and drugs? Oo…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/03/15 07:57 PM
3

I can't give you a good definition. Its one of life's many mysteries. I think hedonists make good drinking partners and that's about it. You might laugh at "spiritual truth" but life might surprise you. You'd do anything to escape a society that has no heart, no spiritual energy all those things you probably laugh at. Nobody is going to build a society on hedonism.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/03/15 07:36 PM
1

Is there any morality in your world?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/03/15 07:25 PM
4

Hedonism has a nasty track record of early death and spiritual emptiness. In theory what could be simpler "do what makes you happy," in practice life isn't simple.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/03/15 07:02 PM
9

If a friend said this to me face to face in a bar I would assume they were having some kind of crisis deeper than falling out with their partner. Seems like the issues go deeper than just women but a kind of philosophical issue with the world in general. Sure you can reduce the world to transactions between lover, friends and family. But when you see no value in a human life than its utility then you break with society.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/03/15 06:54 PM
1

Do you think people have inherent value?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/03/15 05:32 PM
1

Well the study of biology and genetics is full of looking at rare appearances that shed light on general populations. Take left handed and right handedness. http://www.livescience.com/19968-study-reveals-lefties-rare.html
/r/PurplePillDebate23/03/15 05:29 PM
1

If you have a phenomena that you want to study and understand the causes then you compare the average with the outlier. That way you understand the causes of both. Here's a Neuroscience scientist who specialises in sexual orientation describing his reasons for his interest in homosexuality. https://youtu.be/UeklxaN87I0?t=10m3s The whole series is very illuminating on gender and orientation.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/03/15 09:51 AM
5

I wasn't aware being high status had lost its status.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/15 11:33 PM
2

Well for a science perspective its about knowing the subject. They'd say you can understand a subject better looking at outliers compared to the norm.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/15 09:44 PM
3

So you'd say if society was harsher to "freaks" there would be less of them? You'd say people choose to be "freaks" because society treats them too well?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/15 02:09 PM
1

I don't believe TRPACC is red pill
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/15 01:25 PM
2

Is that the male gender or the male biological sex that they want to destroy?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/15 01:18 PM
6

You mean why do we have science?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/15 01:15 PM
2

But I still don't see it HAS to advocated. Isn't it enough to let people choose it? In saying that I am kink and sex positive. If people want orgies, orgies it is. As long as there is no coercion.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/15 11:07 AM
1

Well there is competing strategies going on right?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/15 09:33 AM
1

But you are advocating gangs bangs because its natural? If its all consenting that seems fine. Its not like they are illegal or non existent in industrialised western countries now.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/15 09:31 AM
1

And would you like to treat "freaks?"
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/15 09:10 AM
3

Yeah its more complicated than some models might account for. I think most relevant scientists see it as a nature nurture mix. If you want some science video on it, check out these presentations https://www.youtube.com/user/WhomYouLove2012
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/15 01:23 AM
10

I can't tell if you are being satiric or not. You want to recreate the gender power dynamics of the early agricultural era because...because why? Because it's natural? Small pox is natural. Rape and violence are natural, but I think they should be suppressed.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/15 01:19 AM
2

"natural"
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/15 01:01 AM
1

Sure its advice on getting laid. That was its initial start. In order to achieve that goal it offers up a world view which some find controversial. Its methods are also controversial.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/03/15 08:01 PM
1

Do you think the Red Pill is the only way to get laid?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/03/15 07:27 PM
1

You can describe a world without giving a set of instructions.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/03/15 06:36 PM
2

no worries take your time
/r/PurplePillDebate19/03/15 03:38 PM
0

Can I ask though, do you see this as a moral thing? What's your commentary on morality? I'm trying to wrap my head round this position. Is it a challenge to Christianity and mainstream ethics? Do you see it developing into a politics, even a party? Where do you see the future of this?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/03/15 01:03 AM
0

Ah now I'm with you in the formal description. Yes, Feminism and Christianity present as moral systems. Where as red pill is presented as amoral. It is only a prescription to get laid not an ethical proposition. I can understand that. However here's two issues, the anarchist cookbook problem and mission creep. The Anarchist Cookbook offered a million ways to create mayhem with household items. I kind of look at red pill like that. I mean technically yes dread game is not prescribed. You are not …
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/15 09:57 PM
2

Ah you're right I've confused this with "the appeal to nature." That's more my issue. Actually in debating it seems red pill is more interested in amorality.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/15 08:57 PM
-2

Yeah I don't think many of us here would agree with this description of the red pill. I'm often told its about "what works." It started as a branch of pick up culture so I would think prescription is fundamental. "This is how you get laid." Looks far more like "you have been told a lie and here's how the world really is. I'm telling you this in order to get you laid." And hey getting laid is fine. Not being a "loser," is a good thing. Not being frustrated or lonely, that's great. It's all the re…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/15 06:57 PM
1

Is good and evil hard to define? Absolutely. I don't think I've ever heard a good answer. I don't think evil is an entirely religious concept though but I accept you don't see it that way. I don't have a good answer for the definition. It's kind of a fuzzy thing. Some things in life are like that. Indescribable but true. To be clear though, are you saying you don't believe in good or bad?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/15 06:28 PM
0

It isn't. It's more "if nature does it, there's not much you can do about it". Redpillers for example rarely ever say "hypergamy is awesome" (quite the opposite, actually), they just try to work with it. On the other hand, they don't say "cheating is awesome", but rather "if I am awesome enought to satisfy my polygamous urges, why shouldn't I do so instead of letting myself being locked down by an individual woman and satisfy her hypergamous urges?" Yeah it depends on what you do with this conce…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/15 06:22 PM
1

In this context selling means offering, promulgating, advocating.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/15 05:44 PM
0

OK. Notions of good, evil and morality exist outside of religion. All societies have moral codes. Do you think atheists are all amoral? Amorality does not require a person to do bad things but they have no reason not to. There is no reason not to lie, cheat and steal if it possible to get away with it. If someone is openly amoral they are inviting ostracization. Why invite them into your home? Why trade with them? Why let them marry your daughter?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/15 05:34 PM
2

Fine. I have a problem with amorality.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/15 05:12 PM
2

The acceptable part isn't radical and the radical part isn't acceptable.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/15 02:26 PM
2

Accurate about what?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/15 01:55 PM
14

I hate the position of "logic." We're all driven by emotions.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/15 12:21 PM
4

Yet you are 70% Red?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/15 11:06 AM
5

I appreciate you giving some proper philosophical substance to this view. Here's some problems with it. Firstly the Naturalistic Fallacy - if nature does it, it must be good. If we are naturally like X, X must be good. We are full of competing strategies and competing genes. We are social animals not viruses. Sure that might mean hierarchies but those structures rely on compromise and co operation. Red Pill seems to celebrate the cheat. There is also a delusion that "beta," operation, "being goo…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/15 11:05 AM
3

That's incredibly evasive.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/15 10:45 AM
1

I find the red pill unironic about this.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/03/15 01:58 PM
1

I liked the video. I get and agree with the idea. I'm just not sure "all feminists" are like this. But hey I'm not Blue Pill and I think the sentiment in the video is correct. A couple questions though. When you say I have abandoned everything that has to do with that mentality Does this mean you lack kindness for women or have stopped being a doormat? Are you still friends with girls? Have you never friend zoned a girl? This all seems very all or nothing. The guy her in video was suffering from…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/03/15 06:58 PM
3

This sounds rather indistinguishable from misanthropy.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/03/15 03:30 PM
1

This is true. But then we shouldn't venerate their destructive traits.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/03/15 09:58 AM
2

Ha yes that word too. thanks
/r/PurplePillDebate16/03/15 09:55 AM
1

Some women really go for dark triad types, hybristophiliacs. But its such a toxic concept. Dark triads are monsters that turn everything they touch to shit. There has go to be better philosophies than riffing on the embodiments of evil. You might say what ever works. But to people outside the red pill that sounds like the attitude of someone who has no morals. Sure, its a spectrum and the red pill often sounds like its on the wrong end.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/03/15 01:16 AM
1

If I used the word first, forgive me, mea culpa. I still would want to know how would put the red pill's relationship with the Dark Triad.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/03/15 12:28 AM
1

How would you put the relationship between the red pill and the dark triad?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/03/15 12:18 AM
3

So in reply to my question, leftyguitarist said A fan of it, or a dark triad? For the latter, no. Are you going somewhere with this? Which I took to mean a person could be a fan of the dark triad or an actual dark triad type personality. I would think a father would not be interested about the difference in a man who wants to date his daughter.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/15 10:57 PM
2

I need more context.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/15 10:44 PM
2

Ha! yes, I believe you probably do.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/15 10:07 PM
1

There is a difference between studying anti social personality disorders and being a huge fan of them. As for the second part...what can I say?
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/15 10:01 PM
3

Only if you're doing it right.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/15 09:54 PM
2

I completely agree.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/15 09:43 PM
6

I'm not a red piller but I would say most women are on some degree of submissiveness. 50 Shades of Grey is hugely popular and its a submissive fantasy for women. I guess a Blue Piller would say its a product of "the patriarchy." But I think its edgy enough to not really be a product of mainstream culture. That is its BDSM elements are not mainstream. I think it pushes deep sex buttons in the women who enjoy it. Dominant women are all too rare. Another related trait is sexual desire. I don't thin…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/15 09:35 PM
1

So the potential son-in-law says "Although I am a huge fan of lying narcissistic, machiavellian and psychopaths. That's only for really trashy women. I have the utmost respect for your daughter." Can you understand how a father might not be convinced? EDIT:a word
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/15 09:16 PM
2

I can't say there would be many fathers who would welcome a potential son-in-law that says he is a huge fan of Narcissism, Machiavellianism and Psychopathy.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/15 08:26 PM
0

Would you mind a man courting your daughter who was a fan of the dark triad?
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/15 06:22 PM
3

Are you saying parents should never shield their children from harsh realities? I think there is a happy medium on that. Parents should have unconditional love for their children or something close to it. What do you suggest? Repeatedly telling an ugly child they are ugly? Telling daughters to their face you wish they'd never been born?
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/15 05:22 PM
2

That's fine then. That doesn't sound like a radical position. Then there is nothing new here. What does sound worrying is an all or nothing approach. I'd ease off on the "attractiveness is everything," the rest of the world can do that just fine. That is a message she probably doesn't need to hear. To what degree do you not want to have a daughter?
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/15 04:53 PM
4

If a friend told me he absolutely did not want to have daughters I would tell him maybe he shouldn't have kids. this bit she can date whomever she wants does not seem to match Being able to attract (and keep) the highest quality mate possible is a major part of that
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/15 04:43 PM
3

Yeah but they're not going to are they? I mean isn't it just the guy in his 20s saying "I'm never going to settle down." But then hey single life is way up in numbers.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/15 03:33 PM
3

I don't think Red Pill would suit all men and women. To a kinkster it sounds like "All Men are Lifestyle Doms and all women are Lifestyle Subs and only that way will people be happy."
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/15 03:31 PM
6

I do wonder what red pillers will do once they grow and become fathers of daughters. My hunch is they become very protective fathers.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/15 01:24 PM
2

Absolutely. I am interested in something like that. It's not perfect but it has social conventions and pressures to help. If she's left with the child the community would ask "did you register your plan to have children?" At least she has social pressure on her side for him to commit. His reluctance looks more suspicious. A feckless father will tell a feckless mother anything and feckless mother will tell the community anything. At least the community could call them both to account in some way.…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/15 09:17 PM
1

I would not call have having an abortion or having a child and giving it up for adoption a free pass. I would think that is a sane position. Meanwhile you seem to be of the belief that the majority of men are running around lying to women in order to get sex and that that sex somehow always results in pregnancy. Where did I say the majority of men are liars. I presume in this debate that we both assume not all men and women are liars? As a matter of fact, what does lying have to do with this any…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/15 08:58 PM
1

How are we going to verify the man did not want the child?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/15 08:41 PM
-1

OK what are you advocating?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/15 04:42 PM
0

I actually quite like the sounds of that. Sounds interesting. I'll need to hear more about it but I like the outline. I'd need to hear some counter opinions on it. If a birth needs to be registered it can be argued that an attempt at pregnancy might be valid to register. It's the responsible thing to do. I would wonder if it might not become the defacto marriage though. I am wondering how might this system might be abused by men and women. But I do appreciate the attempt at a mechanism to solve …
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/15 04:20 PM
-2

In your scenario, if the man lies the woman has options. From ending it to adoption. Or in other words whatever happens the woman has to deal with the consequences. I'm uncomfortable about the state forcing an abortion on a woman. Likewise I might be uncomfortable with the state allowing a woman to use the sperm of man who had agreed to have children with her and then changed his mind. This case has arisen.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/15 04:14 PM
-1

For lying men only after sex?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/15 04:06 PM
-1

OK I'm with you. We are only talking about the scenario where the woman has lied, even deceived. I completely accept this happens. In all sorts of nasty ways for the man. I'd accept that laws in countries might be better on this. I admit I just don't have an easy answer on this. But I'm certain if we switch to a system where "men can dispute the agreement," courts would fill up even more. A win for the lawyers. I guess this one of those reasons we traditionally had marriage to sort it out, not t…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/15 03:29 PM
5

Why do women get to sleep around and then choose when they want a kid? Because by its nature the act is unequal. I'm not here to give you an easy Blue Pill answer that men and women are equal in all ways. I would suggest that some men have been known to lie to women about anything in order to have sex. Without risk of owing money for the children their risk is zero. The women naturally risk a lot, time, health and money. Do some women abuse this system? Sure. They are sometimes called "gold digg…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/15 03:18 PM
1

How can anyone have 100% choice on the outcome of a mutual agreement? You are saying if a man breaks the agreement he should not have any responsibility. You only seem to offer a scenario of a woman breaking the agreement.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/15 02:59 PM
1

Do some women have children in an irresponsible manner? Absolutely. But your proposal is a free pass to irresponsible men. You seem to ignore the idea that man might lie to a woman to have sex and entirely think the only possible scenario is that a woman will lie to man to have kids. Both parties are capable of lying. I don't have an easy answer to this.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/15 02:37 PM
-4

But men that are irresponsible will always opt out. The rights are not the same because the outcomes are different. Having a child, giving up for adoption and abortion are not the same as getting someone pregnant. I don't think men and women have identical motivations in this. Both can be irresponsible but I think men are more interested in having sex than being a parent than women.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/15 12:31 PM
-4

I think I'm confused about who you think is paying for the kids. You are saying men should be able to have kids without paying for them?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/15 12:17 PM
1

So how should it work?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/15 12:02 PM
7

How is this different from "men can sleep around as much as they like and not pay for any children" ?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/15 11:48 AM
-1

Because you are saying men can sleep around as much as they want and not deal with paying for bringing up children.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/03/15 11:45 AM
5

What's stopping you? Pretty sure 1% guys keep multiple mistresses. Or is it sex slaves you are after?
/r/PurplePillDebate12/03/15 07:54 PM
1

According to Wikipedia there are at least two duelling conceptions of what "psychopathy" is. If psychology can't even come to some sort of precise understanding of what we're dealing with, I really don't know what to say. What is a psychopath? This whole idea of "antisocial"-ness that seems to be related to it makes little sense to me... how much of this is merely pathologizing the atypical? Sure you can have a problem with psychology's description of psychopathic. You could call it atypical. I …
/r/PurplePillDebate12/03/15 04:34 PM
1

Frankly, given how psychology has been taken over by empathy-fetishizing emotionalists, I don't trust the science of psychology in general (with the exception of the Cognitivist School). Empathy-fetishizing emotionalists? That's an interesting term. I assume from this you have a problem with empathy. Isn't someone with a high degree of empathy just satisfying their own notion of empathy? Their self interest in empathy. "Psychopathic Spectrum" makes zero-sense to me, similarly to "Autistic Spectr…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/03/15 02:13 PM
1

I can accept that in small situations, people's immediate and short-term interests may conflict (i.e. there's one job and two equally-qualified candidates), but if we widen our perspective these conflicts are hardly the end of the world. I think an infinite series of personal interests being in conflict. That does not mean that self interest is always wrong. But it does mean it is not always right. But you do see what my initial point was. That viewing all personal relationships as a form of tra…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/03/15 12:27 AM
1

Yes, this is "enlightened self-interest." I think it is unfortunate, however, that people seem to think that "rational self-interest" and "enlightened self-interest" are separate concepts, because in the entire history of egoistic ethics they're joined at the hip. Enlightened self-interest is rational. But for enlightened self-interest to work does it not require that interests are never in conflict? Two people's optimal self interest are not going to be always the same. This is not an entirely …
/r/PurplePillDebate09/03/15 04:55 PM
1

So there is a difference. If you wanted something long term it might matter. You would judge on this basis?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/03/15 04:24 PM
1

You make fair points. It does seem to depend on what "interests" we have. Or perhaps people simply have a broader concept of "self-interest" than the one you seem to have in mind. I think that definition can vary a lot. To take it back though to my initial point, to quote myself I think there might be a possibility that seeing everything as transactional is accurate from a certain perspective but also unhealthy. "Self-interest" has never been understood, by any single ethical egoist, as involvin…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/03/15 03:10 PM
1

Whilst I agree men and women are different. The overt propositioning can be weird for both sexes. There is something suspicious about it. The suspicions being that the person offering it lacks social awareness, incapable of offering veiled requests. A person demanding direct speech also sounds incapable of responding to regular speech forms. The veiled proposition offers plausible deniability fro both sides. "I didn't mean that" and "I didn't think you meant that." That is not to say it never wo…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/03/15 02:26 PM
2

Are you serious? Here's Pinker on the subject.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/03/15 01:40 PM
1

So society is no more than an elaborate lie built on self-deception on a massive scale? I certainly think we self deceive, that motivations are hard to discern and that much is still a mystery to science. Many would disagree and argue that rational, nonviolent self-interest actually holds societies together through facilitation of commerce and mutually-beneficial human interactions. Is an Hobbesian war of all against all in anyone's self-interest? Surely not. Empathy and utilitarianism are philo…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/03/15 12:31 PM
1

What's wrong with a utilitarian attitude to people? It certainly doesn't feel "cold and inhuman" to me to point out that people prefer interactions with others that they stand to benefit from. I think there's a critical analysis of human behaviour and there is how we act to one another. To analysis human behaviour you can interpret it as a purely transactional. I might say we are naturally transactional. And we naturally hide it. We generally shroud our sub concious motivations in unclear reason…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/03/15 12:12 AM
1

Why? If I choose to do X, I'm foregoing doing Y. Everything in this world has an Opportunity Cost. Every set of human actions or interactions involves tradeoffs/transactions. Because it leads to a utilitarian attitude to people. Though this is kind of speculative. You could say we do this and hide it. Hide it from ourselves. If we live by it we still need to hide from those close to us as it appears cold and inhuman. The inhumanity of it leads to less trust. That's emotionalism. Emotionalism is …
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/15 10:05 AM
1

I think there might be a possibility that seeing everything as transactional is accurate from a certain perspective but also unhealthy. Viewing every person as a commodity can sound psychopathic. Note that deceit is involved as people do not like being treated in this way. I mean this in a wider sense not restricted to just sexual relations.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/15 10:31 AM
1

Its one of the BP things that makes me not BP. If gender is all social where does gender non conformity come from? They would say personality' which seems like wishful thinking. But yeah its popular.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/03/15 10:40 AM
1

What is the social implication you were thinking of?
/r/PurplePillDebate01/03/15 07:37 PM
2

I never bought Butler's Gender as social construction idea. I see gender more as a mix. At the very least it's a natural place holder. Humans look to pattern recognise gender. Butler's endlessly quoted by Gender Critics and Abolitionists. But the revolutionary philosophy to me seems to hit problems quickly.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/03/15 07:12 PM
1

To me this is an issue between the law and BDSM. If you say these people are not playing BDSM then they seem to be doing it in all but name. Kind of BDSM folk in denial. To which the BDSM community would say you need to do it right to avoid hurting each other and getting messed about by the law. The law and BDSM is often in conflict in different countries so its kind a new field that is still contested. In so many ways men and women in the scene are at risk of prejudice in courts. This is why it…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/15 01:30 PM
3

People can accept that rape is part of the range of human behaviours with evolutionary routes. Just like greed, violence, deceit, coercion. It's an interesting scientific question. Coming from the Red Pill it has a bad background though. As you would have to admit a large percentage of Red Pill are flat out misogynists. I'm not saying you don't have a genuine interest in the scientific debate but people will wonder what your agenda is. What are you wanting people to accept? How does this change …
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/15 11:06 AM
2

So did you accept that people have fantasies that they do not want fulfilled?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/15 10:53 AM
3

Can you think of any reasons why people might be sensitive about rape?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/15 01:07 AM
4

Fantasy life is complicated, especially sex fantasy. Erotic stories, say like 50 Shades are full of fantasies that involve situations that people get excited about but don't really want to happen. Its a pretty standard thing. If you don't get this you're missing understanding a fundamental aspect of human nature. We have conflicting desires. Go read up on the BDSM scene. Go read advice columns. You yourself will have conflicting desires.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/02/15 12:58 AM
1

Yeah if both sides agree to something its not really a point of debate.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/02/15 06:43 PM
1

So what pill are you closest to?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/02/15 06:29 PM
0

Biology that can be confused or disrupted. Maybe biology that consistently creates trans people. I guess that homosexuality has a biological route. Homosexuality is widespread in biology it might have some a biological/social function. I suspect trans might be like that too. Though of course biology is not morality.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/02/15 06:27 PM
0

So you don't want to execute them on the spot. I guess that's progress. Do you think gendered behaviour had biological roots or is it all society?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/02/15 06:22 PM
6

Is rape a common fantasy among straight women? Sure. Do women actually want raped? No. This conflict between fantasy and reality is common in the kink world. People are conflicted. To compromise people play out fantasies. There's rules, guidelines and recommended methods. But for most it remains a bedroom game. Mutual respect and communication are important. Do people break those rules? Sure. But they are bad players that ruin the community and people. Importantly games for some will not work fo…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/02/15 05:53 PM
6

Not all rapes are the same. You mean like fantasy rapes and non fantasy rapes? So rape and not rape? Coming from the BDSM scene I can't help thinking you are missing out a lot. This topic has been picked over many times. It comes down to respectful sex play not a game of "she wanted it really."
/r/PurplePillDebate26/02/15 05:43 PM
1

And I'm asking about treatment. I care how people treat other people.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/02/15 05:34 PM
1

Are you saying you are for hormone and surgery for treatment of gender dysphoria as recognised by the DSM?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/02/15 05:30 PM
-1

Sounds a hell of a lot like moral judgement to me. So what's the treatment Dr Cyralea? Therapy? Hormones? Re education?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/02/15 04:50 PM
0

What kind of talk is that? Are you basically psychopathic?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/02/15 04:41 PM
-1

You mean like psychopathic behaviour?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/02/15 01:41 PM
-1

Sorry are you saying that biology is morality?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/02/15 01:40 PM
2

I think its a nature nurture thing. There has to be biology in there otherwise society as it is wouldn't make sense.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/02/15 01:50 PM
1

So we're all genderless? So where do cis non gender conforming people come from? Please don't say it's their individual personality.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/02/15 11:04 PM
6

I'm in Scotland, I don't see many men in dresses about.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/11/14 10:39 PM
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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