Susan Walsh has a great blog post on Hooking Up Smart titled I Found a Great Beta Guy, But He’s Ruining His Own Game! It features a series of letters Susan received from a reader named Casey about the clueless guy she is dating. Here are some key excerpts from Casey’s letters to Susan:
Recently, I became involved with a guy who is the epitome of a great, good, beta guy. He is handsome, nice, fun, and so so caring.
We met through grad school. We’ve been classmates for a while, but never more than just casual acquaintances.Then in May we started becoming close friends. We clicked really well. Soon quick phone calls about assignments became one hour chats about politics, then three hour talks about life, and then a couple of all nighter phone calls (which I haven’t done since high school!)
Things got even more interesting when we both broke up with out significant others this summer. We started hanging out even more and talking everyday. But we have never talked about “us.” We haven’t even really talked about our break ups. I thought that maybe he just wanted to be my friend but then the other night we kissed…more like made out. He was a total gentleman and walked me into my apartment, then left. I liked that. However, since that night he hasn’t tried anything else!!!
Our kiss was perfect and I had so much fun making out..I don’t understand why he hasn’t tried more. Maybe I am too used to horny, eager, alpha males (which is basically all I have ever dated), but I am dying for more sexual attention!!!
He seems old fashioned…traditional…formal and very much the gentleman so I don’t know how to bring this up without sounding like a slut. He has told me straight out that he isn’t into flings. He also told me his relationship was over way before he actually had the courage to break up with his ex. So I am not sure if maybe he sees me as a potential gf in the near future. But regardless, I am getting mixed signals and I am not sure what to do. I’d love to know your thoughts!!
How clueless can this guy be? Maybe he can still catch on and recover. Casey continues in her next letter to Susan:
In the hook up department, we’ve done all but actual sex. He told me he likes to go slow when it comes to that. He said he has been trying to change from the way he used to be when he was younger. He said that not only does he have to care about the girl that he is sleeping with but he would also prefer that the relationship be exclusive.
I am beginning to see a problem that I have seen with other beta type guys. I think I overwhelm these beta guys! So here is the situation, we were at dinner over the weekend. Everything was going great. But then I ran into some friends and it started to go downhill. He became very timid. It was very awkward. They sat down with us for about 10 min while they waited for their table and they asked him questions like, “So how is the job search going after grad school?” His answer: “Uh…I don’t know, I’m not really sure.” It was so bizarre. He came off as sheepish and lacking a personality.
The end of the night was the worst part. We went to meet some mutual friends for a drink. There was music playing so naturally, I started dancing. He stayed by the wall and just watched me even though I tried to get him to dance. I came back after two songs and he and another guy were talking about politics, so I chimed in. As soon as I opened my mouth (and I didn’t talk much) he stopped talking. From this point on it was very clear he was acting totally weird. And this isn’t new. It has been happening. He is acting more and more shy instead of opening up.
Fortunately for Casey, things might be looking up:
Just yesterday I met a guy at a friend’s BBQ who was exactly that–socially dominant. I found him extremely attractive. We hit it off instantly. He asked for my number (at 2pm). I heard from him at 11:30 pm. He sent a text that read: “What are you doing? Feel like coming over?” Are you kidding me?! My beta guy would never do that. He is too nice and polite for that. While BBQ guy wants to hook up with me the very night he meets me and doesn’t actually care about getting to know me, the Beta guy wants to get to know me yet gets too intimidated and ruins his own game. What to do??
Obviously this guy is a lost cause and just plain too beta. What can you do? I don’t think there is any hope for him. But reading her story of the clueless guy reminded me of a letter I received from a reader of this blog about a clueless girl he is dating. It really is funny to see how both men and women can at times be so profoundly unaware of how they come off. So here is one for the guys to keep things even:
Dalrock,
I wanted to get your advice on this beautiful girl I just started dating. We both go to the same grad school, and really started to hit if off especially after we each broke off our current relationships over the summer. At first it seemed like we had great chemistry. Several times we even ended up talking on the phone all night. I was thinking we had an amazing connection. Then I asked her out for dinner found out she is the date from hell!
I took her out to dinner over the weekend, and everything was going great until her friends show up. Instead of waving to them and saying she will connect with them later, she invites them to join us. On our date! I mean it, she had them all sit at our table in the middle of our date for at least 10 minutes. Who does this? So they all sit down at our table– did I mention during our date?– and proceed to grill me about why I haven’t gotten a job yet! Instead of shooing them away, she sat there silently and took a posture of “Yeah, what’s that all about?”.
But it got worse from there. After she was so rude on our dinner date we went over to see some mutual friends. As soon as we got there she just started dancing by herself! It was really awkward. One of my buddies looked over at me like “what’s up with your date?”. With this girl everything is about her. I was glad for the space after what she pulled at dinner, so I started a conversation with my friend. Once she was done dancing by herself she came over and interrupted our conversation. I just shut up because at this point I was really pissed off, but I’m not sure she got the hint. In fact, she had this really judgmental air about her. The ruder she got, the more she acted like I was doing something wrong.
On top of all of this, I told her I wanted to be exclusive one night after we made out and she didn’t acknowledge it. It made me feel really dumb; I had put myself out there and she acted like it was no big deal, and she definitely didn’t reciprocate. It was so awkward I decided just to walk her home after that. I really wasn’t in the mood to fool around with a flake. Later I thought it was maybe just a misunderstanding so I tried taking her out to dinner. Now I know my first instinct was right. She seems very interested in talking to other guys, and I’m hearing from others in our mutual social circle that this is the way she always is. Even while you are dating her you pretty much know she is giving other guys her number.
Anyway, she is totally clueless and I’m trying to give her the hint now that I’ve seen what she is really like. You know “it’s not you, it’s me”. I hate breaking up with girls, and actually stayed with my last girlfriend after it was over because I didn’t want to go through the drama of a breakup. Now I have to deal with the drama for a girl in my circle of friends who wouldn’t even agree to be exclusive. I don’t even understand that. How can I better give her the hint?
His story is pretty amazing too! How clueless can a girl be?
If I didn’t know better, I’d say I made his letter up.
Edit Sept 23: I’m closing off comments on this post. I think everything has pretty much already been said. As someone on Susan’s blog said “anything more is just lawyering over the corpse”.
