Been busy so haven’t been posting much. I figured I’d comment on this.
There’s been some interesting discussion on the last few posts on Dalrock’s blog on women potentially teaching other women in Church. This is just the last one but check out the few prior to that if you want the whole picture.
Generally speaking, some commenters point to Titus 2 to where older women should be teaching younger women.
Titus 2:3 Older women likewise are to be reverent in their behavior, not malicious gossips nor enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good, 4 so that they may [b]encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored.
On the other hand, the verses that seem to refute this are the passages from 1 Corinthians 14 and 1 Timothy 2:
1 Corinthians 14:34 The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. 35 If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is [n]improper for a woman to speak in church. 36 [o]Was it from you that the word of God first went forth? Or has it come to you only?
1 Timothy 2:9 Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, [g]modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, 10 but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness. 11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first [h]created, and then Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, [i]fell into transgression. 15 But women will be [j]preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with [k]self-restraint.
Dalrock rightly points out that exegesis of the preaching and of the Scripture is delegated to husbands in the 1 Corinthians 14 passage. When you combine this with the wording of the passage in Titus 2, it’s obvious that older women are to encourage wifely submission to their husbands. Therefore, it is the case that older women should not be “teaching” what the Scriptures mean to wives but rather encouraging wives to ask their husbands about how they would interpret it.
This is important because although there is Church authority over the members of the Church, the Scripture does not contradict itself and rightly upholds marriage which is the first created authority structure (See: Genesis 1-3).
Proper Scriptural authority
All of this stems from as couple of things. Generally, In the Scriptures “teaching” and “preaching” are validated by “authority.” Authority is given in the Scriptures to specific roles such as husbands, pastors and elders, governments, and the like in order to love, shepherd, or maintain order and law.
Order is maintained from a top-down perspective. Those with qualifications may be selected by those in authority to be in certain positions. For example, in 1 Timothy 3 Paul discusses the qualifications of bishops and deacons. The government is given authority by God to act. In this sense, we understand that democracy is somewhat backwards in that it is a bottom-top power structure, and that is why we see the dysfunction increasing exponentially over time.
When the apostles were forbidden to preach the gospel by the Sanhedrin Council in Acts 5, they responded that they should obey God — who had told them to preach the gospel specifically to all nations! — rather than men. This is a proper understanding of authority.
This is the also reason why the Scriptures tell wives to ask their husbands if they don’t understand something. A wife is subject to her husband as her authority.
In the Church, the Ekklesia — specifically a Gathering of Believers — no women will ever have authority in such a situation. Daughters are subject to their fathers whether they are young or old. In marriage, the authority of a father over his daughter is passed from the father to the husband. The single exception may be widows, and Paul describes how widows are supposed to act in 1 Timothy 5. And Nuns… but Nuns have forsaken their all for God, so that’s not an issue.
Thus, in no situation is a woman “free unto herself” and thus given a voice within the Church in a position of authority whether over men or over other women. Daughters and wives are under their fathers or husbands authority. Likewise, older women are encouraged to teach younger women to obey the authority they are under and act in a godly manner.
Women teaching other women
As of now it should be quite clear that [older] women do not have the authority to teach or preach the meaning(s) of Scriptures to [younger] women because it is under the jurisdiction of their fathers or husbands. The Bible does not contradict itself on this front.
In particular, one of my general pet peeves of the blogosphere in general is that it’s often the case where many women’s blogs discuss the application of Scriptures toward their own marriage and it becomes explicit or implicit that it should be that way in other marriages. This is false. In reality, it should be like this:
- This is how this Scripture works in my marriage with my husband under his guidance.
- You should ask your husband how he wants things done.
- It may be different on how he interprets and handles things. That’s fine and good!
For example, look at the passage again:
Titus 2:3 Older women likewise are to be reverent in their behavior, not malicious gossips nor enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good, 4 so that they may [b]encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored.
All of it is to encourage being subject to their own husbands in a godly manner. Not to teach them how their specific relationship should look like. Their husband determines how it should look like.
Pastors cutting off husbands at the knees from the pulpit the same analog as this.
A pastor has “his” specific interpretation of how Scripture is supposed to be carried out and berates men from the pulpit because they are not doing it his particular way. Hence, many wives of the husband that this pastor berates will now berate their husbands to be more like how the pastor preaches. This is simply not godly nor Scriptural.
Likewise, if you’ve been around long enough “blogs” are a source of much discontent among single and married women simply because they see something that looks or appears good on the outside and want it for their marriage. Then they become angry, dissatisfied, and discontent when they bring it up to their husbands and their husbands shoot it down. It should not be this way. Christian women bloggers should be encouraging other women to submit to how their husbands do things. If they want to suggest or bring up something respectfully that may be helpful then by all means do so. However, it should not be assumed that supposedly something “better” in someone else’s relationship is the “RIGHT” thing for your relationship.
It certainly is ungodly if women and wives are becoming discontent through comparisons of their marriage to other marriages. Comparisons sow discontent. Comparisons are bad kids. M’kay?
This is one area that many women struggle with a lot, especially with FACEBOOK, INSTAGRAM, BLOGS and CHRISTIAN LITERATURE.
Can you say comparison city? Discontentment? Dissatisfaction?
Women teaching women beyond godliness and subjection to their husbands is going to be bad news bears. Tell them to ask their fathers or husbands if they have questions or comments about particular topics or want to understand a particular passage of Scripture. The end.
P.S. The Catholic and Orthodox Church do not have as big of a problem with this because of the adherence to structured authority. Protestant failure.
—————————————–
Addendum: Apparently, there is some confusion with this post which BGR has commented on. What the Scripture teaches is that:
- Women who teach other women a la Titus 2 should do so under the interpretations of the Church and her husband.
For example, per Titus 2 [older] women should be teaching [younger] women to be submissive to their husbands.
What is submission to their husband? It’s not what other people think is submissive to her husband. It’s what the husband thinks is submissive. Hence, why it’s a good idea for older women to encourage younger women to ask their husbands what submission means to them and how they can best go about it in their relationship.
Hence, what it looks like is an older woman saying:
1. Here’s how I’m submissive to my husband.
2. You should go ask your husband how you can be submissive to him because how I am submissive is not necessarily how your husband wants you to be submissive.
In regard to “pure” the word for that is hagnos which is also translated as chaste or modest.
Hence, older women should tell wives that they should be pure/chaste/modest. What does that mean? The husband decides what is pure/chaste/modest in his own home.
Women are teaching women to do **these things** because they are good. What these things **mean** is up to the husband to decide, with input from the wife.
The problem is with women interpreting Scripture on their own. She can share the meaning of Scripture under the authority of the husband and/or the Church.
