Problems with The Red Pill — Summary

Conclusions and final thoughts about the Christian Manosphere and The Red Pill.

Readership: All
Theme: Problems with The Red Pill
Length: 3,000 words
Reading Time: 12 minutes

Intro

In this 5 month long study, I’ve examined several problematic issues within the current iteration of The Red Pill 2.0.  These problems have been broken into categories and outlined in a separate page containing brief summaries and links to the full essays.

This post will highlight some of the major gleanings of this study.

Popular Posts

The most popular posts in this series are, in this order:

1. Σ Frame (ArchAngel): Lovebreaker (2024/3/20)
2. Σ Frame (Jack): Problems with The Red Pill — Exposition (2024/3/1)
3. Σ Frame (Jack): The Ways of Women Around the World (2024/5/6)
4. Σ Frame (Jack): The Red Pill is a Dead End for Bachelors (2024/6/3)
5. Σ Frame (Lexet): Revisiting Vox’s Socio-Sexual Hierarchy (2024/4/5)
6. Σ Frame (Lexet): Selling Blue Pills Painted Red (2024/3/13)
7. Σ Frame (Jack): Defining the Christian Red Pill (2024/6/24)
8. Σ Frame (Oscar): The Lie of Female Hypoagency (2024/4/1)
9. Σ Frame (Jack): Misapplied Models (2024/5/1)
10. Σ Frame (Jack): The Challenge of Transcending the Abyss (2024/6/5)

Thanks to ArchAngel, Lexet, and Oscar for their contributions.

Congratulations to ArchAngel for contributing the most popular post in this series.  He had prepared 3-4 other posts for this series, but unfortunately, he withdrew these contributions in early May after his post, Lovebreaker, drew intense criticism and the discussion degraded into a p!ssing match.  I’ll also add that he and I did not attain the same sense of shared purpose and trust that I’ve enjoyed with other coauthors / contributors, and he had a bad habit of offending the regulars.  He trashed all his drafts, so I doubt that he will be contributing any more writings in the future.

Comprehensive

Ironically, the biggest problem with The Red Pill has nothing to do with The Red Pill.  It is people’s inability / unwillingness to deal with difficult truths. This is tough for men, but doubly so for women.  When people cannot overcome the initial offense and swallow adulting (1 Corinthians 3:1-8), they respond in a large number of evasive ways.

• Hypocrisy
• Sectarianism
• Crab mentality
• Analysis paralysis
• Lying and denying
• Compromise / Purple Pill
• Condemn TRP as bad, dirty, t0x!c, etc.
• Reject the message and/or the messenger
• The usual excuses, hamsterbations, justifications, etc.

The current outstanding inadequacy of The Red Pill is that most Red Pill models of human behavior do not take metaphysical paradigms and virtues into account because it is accurately assumed that hypergamy + lack of attraction creates an insolvable conundrum, and that this conundrum trumps and/or excludes any ethical / moral considerations.  But without these ethical / moral considerations, humanity sinks into the carnal depravity that we now observe. The Red Pill may not have actively or intentionally retracted or destroyed them (beyond what has occurred by reframing them as superfluous), but it certainly didn’t preserve or improve them either. This is what is currently missing from The Red Pill lore.

Another problem is that Western Patriarchy is sooo far gone and removed that it will need to be constructed from scratch.  Right now, Westerners have such a very p!ss poor pusillanimous concept of Patriarchy that it isn’t even Patriarchy. When the average Westerner hears “patriarchy” he or she thinks of muzzification — wife beatings, honor k!ll!ngs, and men having sex with whatever they want while women maintain strict sexual standards on pain of de@th.  One outstanding misconception that persists is the idea that women have to be forcibly controlled to make them compliant. This is not what Headship or Patriarchy is about, and it’s not what Jack, RPA, Thedeti, et al. here are saying. We’re saying men need to be proactive and push women to choose, not just waste time playing their games.  In the past, social norms and nature itself served to pressure women into growing up and accepting responsibility for their sociosexual behaviors and choices.  Now that these factors have been bioengineered and legislated away, women must be more proactive about willingly choosing to conform to God’s order.

A lesser but still significant problem in the Red Pill sphere is a failure of imagination, which is to say, men do not have a clear self-concept and purpose, so they are unable to juxtapose conflicting information, sort out what is relevant to themselves, imagine what is missing or what needs to be put into place, and then use this combined information and vision to work towards self-development.

On Modeling

When I wrote about the concept of models, a staple in my field of science and engineering, I was surprised by the vitriolic reaction from some readers.  They just couldn’t wrap their heads around the idea that a lot of Red Pill theories are just models, and that models are not reality, but only represent our best understanding of reality.  Instead of realizing how important it is to choose a model that best matches the context, and that no model will match reality perfectly in every case (as I had expected from readers), they literally flipped their lids and jumped to the conclusion that I had invented a massively complex smokescreen.

In spite of this caustic reaction, this study of models has increased my own confidence in using them, and I hope the majority of readers feel the same way.

I’ve concluded that evo psyche / Red Pill models of sociosexual phenomena are not much different from other scientific / behavioral models.  However, because of the said reaction, I’ve found there are three noteworthy differences.

1. Some people have the peculiar notion that a lot of the Red Pill lore (e.g. evo-psyche models) that are best understood as models of human behavior are falsely presented as unbreakable rules having the force or impact of a religious doctrine.  Care should be taken to make sure students are aware that these models are mostly instructive, and only sometimes predictive.
2. People tend to assign personal meaning to the perceived implications of such models and then absorb this into their sense of identity, which may or may not be appropriate.  (One good example pertaining to Vox’s Sociosexual Hierarchy model is how Gammas often self-identify as Sigmas.)  This tends to make any discussion of sociosexual models into an emotionally charged ordeal and it often results in false or unrealistic expectations, despair, hopelessness, and resignation.
3. Red Pill models are based on personal data and other sensitive information that people would prefer to conceal and/or deny, thereby making it difficult to gather relevant data and confirm its accuracy.  Having a model on hand provides a way around this problem, but it is also more difficult to devise an accurate model in the first place.  In the early days of the Manosphere, hundreds of PUAs ran through thousands of women to arrive at this knowledge.  These days, large sets of demographic information are perhaps the most reliable data that can be used to create and refine such models.  This is precisely why we see many dataclysms and commentaries thereof in the Red Pill lore.

Identities vs Roles

There continues to be confusion over the difference between identities and roles.  Integrity demands that they be the same, but when they are not, the context should be noted.  Is it boasting, false humility, grifting, hypocrisy, monkeydancing, phariseeism, theater, etc. or is it putting aside one’s self and taking up a (possibly ill-fitting) mantle for a larger purpose?

For example…

• Is it deceptive or insidious for a person to purvey an unpopular viewpoint for the sake of powering an insightful debate?
• Is it deceptive or insidious for a person to intentionally derail discussions with meta analyses and walls of tedious text because they wish to dissolve an insightful debate?

Also…

• Vox Day’s “Gamma” male roughly correlates with Rollo Tomassi’s “Average Frustrated Chump” and also Oscar’s concept of “Crab people”.
• Red Pill Apostle’s metaphor — Water bottle = Masculinity; Water = Women’s emotional volatility.
• Thedeti’s and Jack’s rebuttals of Derek’s stance on mutual submission.
• Surfdumb’s comment on the Gift of Celibacy / Singleness.

Parallels with Protestantism

Towards the end of this series, it was observed in the following posts that The Christian Manosphere has many similarities with Evangelical Protestantism.

• Σ Frame: The Mechanics of Sectarianism within The Christian Red Pill [R+] (2024/7/3)
• Σ Frame: Red Pill Roadmap [R+] (2024/7/5)
• Σ Frame: The Purple Pill 2.0 [B+] (2024/7/12)

In general, The Christian Manosphere mirrors Protestantism in the following ways:

• The kinds of Christians who frequent the Manosphere and identify as “Christian Red Pill” are overwhelmingly likely to be a fundamentalist type Christian, or another kind of ultraconservative Christian.
• Such people tend to have a strong to very strong distaste for dissonance in general, and a particularly strong aversion towards anything that they may perceive to be doctrinally or morally incongruent.
• They are less willing and capable of entertaining arguments that they have already deemed ‘unscriptural’, or participating in things that are ‘tainted’ in their eyes, with the aim of extracting something good or useful out of them.
• The preferred approach is generally some form of separatism, an irreconcilable strategy leading to division, silos, judgment, and the like being as common as dirt.
• The Christian Manosphere / Red Pill is incredibly divisive, divided, and splintered, exactly like Protestantism.
• Issues of contention bear similarities.
• The peacocking, status battles, and White Knighting that prevent genuine fellowship from emerging not only prevail in a Blue Pill / Purple Pill / churchian environment, but also in the men’s sphere.

There are a few stark differences though.

• Most obviously, the church is preoccupied with making women feel comfortable, while The Christian Manosphere is significantly more interested in men’s issues and ministering to men.
• Men are more likely to experience genuine Christian fellowship in Christian Manosphere forums than in their local church.
• Prophets are roundly rejected by the church, and they tend to congregate in the Christian Manosphere.
• Neo Calvinist Big Eva sets trends within Western Protestantism, while The Christian Manosphere sets trends for cultural / popular notions of sociosexual consciousness.
• Protestantism caters to gynocentrism, while The Red Pill leads to Christianity.
• Christians and RP need each other but are having a really, really hard time finding equilibrium. They’re having an even harder time admitting their symbiotic relationship.

Great Quotes

DeepStrength speaks on the importance of how an uncomfortable message is packaged.

“[Andrew] Wilson reminds me of me when I was younger. Under the guise of the truth he doesn’t want to consider attitude and tone.

To truly minister to those who need to hear it in a different way you need to do like Paul did and package things to win different populations of people. Some people need the firmness of the truth but packaged with kindness and gentler tone.

Insert numerous verses in Proverbs about kindness and gentleness here.”

A gold byte from Jack about churches and pastors overvaluing female congregants.

“What most pastors fail to realize is that if they stop pandering to women and start recognizing men, I mean truly recognizing them with respect to their place in the hierarchy as authoritative husbands, fathers, and heads, and as the doers, shakers, and movers in the community, then there might be fewer women in attendance, but there would also be more men showing up. AND Men put more money in the plate than women do.”

Another from Jack.

“As society degrades and we get closer to the end times, we’re becoming more familiar with how women can be particularly defiling, so we’re better able to imagine what “men defiled with women” (Revelation 14) look like. Angsty, bitter, dejected, despondent, distrustful, doubtful, frustrated, impoverished wage slaves to court ordered alimony / child support payments. They have lost faith and given up on life. Such are (or were) some of us.”

This quote from Feeriker,

“What our adversaries are most terrified of is our ability to display righteous anger. Churchians, in particular, dread this. If they could remove those passages in the Gospels of Jesus, whip in hand, driving the moneychangers out of the Temple, they would (they might yet). Those passages are the epitome of “not nice,” but also of wisdom and “had to be done.”

This great quote from Bardelys the Magnificent.

“Red Pill does have a marketing problem in that the normie conception is that it’s filled with disreputable men (Andrew T@te), angry men (Hammerhand, Undead Chronic) and grifters trying to sell courses. It doesn’t help that anger is a natural phase, or that most people end up here not because they are winnarz in life, but because of some life-altering setback or flaw in their personality / outlook. Normies want to associate with winners, and for all of our posturing, the truth is, very few of us are. Why leave one space (blue pill) where you’re guaranteed to lose but feelz better for a different place (red pill) where you’re also guaranteed to lose but feelz bad? I get why normies wouldn’t jump in with both feet. Even the grifters will admit that if you do everything right, there’s no guarantee of success. Nobody is leaving their comfy cocoon for that unless they’ve been forced there.”

Other Observations

Jack’s comment on the Blue Pill Hell of Christian moral / sex education of the 1980s.  Scroll down the linked article for more excellent comments on this topic.

Jack’s comment on the difficulty of dealing with deadbeat dames and dudes.

Deti’s comment on the character of women.

Jack’s comment on mid-life crises.

I had to remind readers of Coram Mundo vs. Coram Deo, and that it is futile to expect non-believers to conform to Christian standards.

I had to remind readers that D E I / ‘Equality’ stuff is a deceptive rhetorical vehicle, not a true ideology.

Info introduced a quote from Brad the Beast as a case study of Dirty Red Pill.  A couple weeks later, he was involved in some kind of scandal.  (Not sure I completely understand this, but I think it’s the same guy.)

The 2020-2021 period, coinciding with C0V!D / lockdowns had a transformational effect on public consciousness, reflected in ‘2.0’ iterations of The Red Pill Sphere, The Christian Manosphere, and The Purple Pill.  Purple Pill 2.0 is very similar to churchian autopilot.

So called ‘cults’ are overrated.  In most cases, it boils down to, “Anything we don’t like is a cult.”  More broadly, it is generally a fear of prominent out groups that hold drastically different values and views, viz. xenophobia.

There is a generational divide that continues to accelerate as we near the Singularity.  Older and younger generations cannot even begin to comprehend one another’s views.

Happenings

Derek has revived his career as a blogger by writing long screeds about whatever’s being discussed on Σ Frame.

In March (?), Men’s Rights activist Paul Elam, founder of A Voice for Men, converted to Christianity.  This is surprising because he had a habit of periodically highlighting his antipathy to the concept of God in general and to Christianity in particular.  Paul Elam’s Substack

The Drizzle Drizzle trend debued in April.

A solar flare and a special appearance of the aurora borealis occurred on 2024/5/11.

Derek and Sharkly were placed on moderation in early June.

The assassination attempt on President Trump was on 2024/7/13.

AI image generation has become significantly more prevalent and more sophisticated.

New Axioms, Maxims, and Terms

A new term was introduced.

Fecundum Imperium — Keeping subordinate men occupied in marriages with an unsuitable mate as a power play to prevent or limit their reproduction (for example by switching to a more suitable mate). This applies especially to sexless marriages.

Added to the Σ Frame list of Maxims and Axioms.

Σ Frame Maxim 36 (Bardelys the Magnificent): Everything ‘works’ — in theory.  In the end, only God’s ways work.

Σ Frame Maxim 37 (Jack): The dirtier the dispenser, the purer the Red Pill.
Corollary to Maxim 37 (jvangeld): The cheaper it is, the higher the value.

Corollary C to Axiom 17 (Jack, Oscar): Suffering is inevitable, so choose your suffering before suffering chooses you.

Σ Frame Axiom 41, AKA Lexet’s Axiom: People who are obsessed about anonymous writers online want to silence them.

Σ Frame Axiom 42, AKA Joe2’s Axiom: Even an innocuous comment can be construed as a personal attack.

Here’s a great quote from Illimitable Men that came up in the discussion.

“The reason many otherwise intelligent people often seem to behave foolishly, is because they have inaccurate maps of human nature, and the reason they have inaccurate maps of human nature is because they are not psychologically strong enough to handle the consequences of their own intelligence.”

“When intelligent people are mentally fragile, they misuse their intelligence to build ever more elaborate delusions which reject reality with a coherent but untrue logic set. Meaning they self-construct or buy into a framework which is coherent within its own closed system, but does not survive contact with reality because it is foolish and thereby untrue. Ergo they are logical (a sign of intelligence), but not accurate in the application of that logic (and thus foolish).”

Illimitable Men: Truth & IQ – Street Smarts & Book Smarts (2024/3/17)

I’m trying to think of how this could be boiled down into an Axiom.

Final Thoughts

Nowadays, the topic of marriage and all things related, such as discipline, expectations, married game, setting boundaries, vetting, etc. is decidedly out of fashion.  Several readers have stated that they’re getting burned out on The Red Pill, so is Joker, and TBH, so am I, at least on those things that have been staple topics of The Classic Manosphere / Red Pill 1.0.  With the completion of this theme on Problems with The Red Pill, it appears that TRP 1.0 has finally run its course.  So in the future, I’m going to pivot away (but not totally) from the traditional men’s sphere’s focus on dating, marriage, women, sex, etc. and concentrate on topics that I regard to be the next step in the continuing evolution of the Red Pill.  I expect that in about 10 years or so, the Fourth Turning will begin and people are going to be digging up my old writings about courtship, marriage, and sex. Deep Strength’s too.

Answer: Real image with AI enhancement.

Related

• Foreign Policy: The Return of Patriarchy (2009/10/20)