Oscar’s commentary on Roosh’s advice to single Christian Men.
Readership: Men
Theme: IOIs and Vetting
Author’s Note: This essay was written on 2022/10/31. Edited by Jack.
Length: 2,100 words
Reading Time: 11 minutes
Wisdom from Roosh
Roosh Valizadeh wrote an article on 33 Things Christian Men Should Know About Women (2022/10/17) detailing his wisdom on things that Christian men should look for and avoid in women they are interested in to date and marry.
Deep Strength reviewed Roosh’s Article in two posts.
- Christianity and Masculinity: Roosh’s wisdom for Christian men interested in women (2022/10/25)
- Christianity and Masculinity: Roosh’s definition of game and social charisma going forward (2022/10/26)
In the latter post Deep Strength wrote,
“For those of you who were not familiar with Roosh, the 3 Rs — Roissy, Rollo (Tomassi of Rational Male) and Roosh V — were the pillars of the secular manosphere from probably around 2007 to 2019ish or so. Since then the manosphere fractured. Roosh converted to Christianity in 2019. Roissy got booted from WordPress, the RP reddit got quarantined, and Rollo barely blogs anymore preferring to engage on Youtube it seems.”
Do check out DS’s commentary, but also please take the time to read Roosh’s entire lengthy article. It’s always best to get a man’s opinion directly from the source, and there’s a lot to learn from Roosh’s past foolishness and hedonism.
Why Vetting Fails
It occurred to me reading Roosh’s list that in some of his points he inadvertently (?) explained why vetting fails so often.
First, let’s get #22 out of the way.
22. No matter how thoroughly you vet her, you will be upset at her behaviors during marriage.
No matter how well-vetted a woman is, she’s a fatally flawed sinner, just like you are. You both need to extend each other some grace. That’s not a vetting failure, it’s the best case scenario for two redeemed sinners living through the process of sanctification together.
Now, consider Joe. He’s your typical, average, decent Christian young man. He meets young, bubbly, pretty Jolene at college in a city where neither of them grew up, and where neither of their families live. Opportunities abound and the hormones of youth are flowing freely. What could possibly go wrong?
2. Women are capable of deceiving men.
Keep #2 in mind, because it’s going to come up over, and over again. No one — male or female — can behave inconsistently with their character long term, but Jolene can probably keep up the charade for a few months — long enough to get him hooked on her positive qualities deeply enough that he overlooks her red flags, especially if they’re having sex, because…
5. You will not choose a woman with wisdom if your passions are elevated.
If Joe starts having sex with Jolene, he’s almost guaranteed to make foolish decisions. After all, he’s already making the foolish decision to have sex with her. Besides, what hormonal young man’s passions are not elevated?
Why Game Fails
Here, we’re referring to the old school PUA style Game that Roosh was known for, NOT Jack and Ed’s concept of charismatic / Christian Game.
6. Beware if “game” works on her.
For a Christian, a good deal of wisdom is necessary to recognize when he is arousing a woman, and how to handle things to keep things pleasant without going too far or intimating the possibility of fornicating. Most Christian men don’t understand this distinction because (1) they lack sufficient discernment, and (2) they’re not familiar enough with the way female sexuality works. So how would Joe know without trying it — in other words — before it’s too late? If Joe can’t use Game to test Jolene’s response, he would have to observe her reactions to other men using Game on her.
7. A woman who simultaneously communicates with numerous men likely has an addiction to male attention.
Continuing the idea of Game in #6, if a woman has a sizeable harem of beta orbiters or keeps a long list of men’s numbers on her phone, then not only does she have an unhealthy dependency on male attention, the chances are also good that she’s into being Gamed (and banged).
13. A woman who is overly comfortable around strange men may have had a lot of experience with men.
Remember, Joe and Jolene met at college. They’re strangers. How are they supposed to get to know each other if Jolene is uncomfortable with strange men? In this case, a woman’s social awkwardness (NOT social anxiety) may be a good sign, similar to Jack’s description of a PITA girl.
14. She may hide her most negative qualities, behaviors, and admissions until you have invested in her.
See #2 above. This is exactly why it’s necessary to know a girl for a while, to see how she interacts with friends and family members, especially her dad. Until her character can be confirmed, it is best to keep investment and commitment to a minimum.
Speaking of her dad…
Generational Influences
16. Unless you have evidence to the contrary, she will become her mother and treat you like her mother treats her father.
Red Pill Apostle noted that a young woman’s submission to her father (or lack thereof) can presage her submission to her husband, and this is true, but her mother’s behavior may be even more important. Without a lot of serious introspection (a very rare behavior, especially among the young, and even more so among young women), most people unconsciously fall into the ruts their parents dug for them.
Jolene is unlikely to invite Joe to her parents’ house until he’s already invested in her, and if Jolene is “practiced at the art of deception”, her mother is probably 10 times more so.
17. Take signs of heightened passion, mental instability, mental illness, self-harm, and a violent or abusive upbringing very seriously.
Here, things get dark and complicated. People who grow up in abusive households learn all kinds of dysfunctional habits and behaviors that help them cope with the abuse, but end up being self-destructive in the long run.
Also, older never married women are more likely to fit this description, simply because they’re leftovers. Emotionally and psychologically healthy women get taken off the market sooner. Another reason why men prefer younger chicks.
If Jolene grew up in such a family, she’s even more likely to be a skilled deceiver, since she’s had to keep all kinds of dark family secrets her whole life. She’s also more likely to honey-trap Joe with sex. There’s a reason men say that “crazy p***y is the best p***y”.
Some self-destructive behaviors are obvious — like obesity, smoking, and tattoos — but others can remain hidden until foolish young Joe is thoroughly invested in Jolene. If they get married, Jolene is likely to blame all her issues (caused by her abusive family) on Joe, with her abusive family’s full encouragement. It’s not as though they will ever take responsibility for the self-destructive behaviors they instilled in her.
Worse still, if Joe and Jolene have kids, she’s likely to continue the cycle of abuse and pass on her generational curses to his kids.
Many Christians will criticize Joe if he declines to date, or marry Jolene because of her abusive family. After all, it’s not Jolene’s fault that her parents are evil. But, it’s not Joe’s fault, either. In choosing a wife, Joe is choosing a mother for his future children. He has a responsibility to them, and before God, to choose wisely.
If Jolene was abused, she’s likely to make Joe’s kids’ childhoods hellish, and if she divorces Joe (also likely), he won’t even be there to protect them. Furthermore, Jolene will likely expose Joe’s kids to her abusive family, making it even more likely that they’ll be abused.
If Jolene can articulate how she was abused, how that affected her, what self-destructive behaviors her family instilled in her, and how — with intensive help from a skilled counselor — she overcame that behavior, and if she cut off all contact with her abusive family, she may be a great choice for a wife. But if she can’t do all of that, then Joe would be wise to hit the eject button.
But, again, how is foolish young Joe supposed to discern all of that before it’s too late? He’s not a mind reader, and Jolene will probably hide her abuse until he’s so thoroughly d!ck-napped and p***y whipped that he can’t see straight.
The Confusion of Intersexual Dynamics
21. She will lose respect and attraction for you if you become emasculated and allow her to take control.
Or, if she gets hot for jerkboy game (see #6), or has a history of dating bad men, this means she finds bad men exciting, which means she finds good men — like Joe — boring. That doesn’t mean she won’t date, or even marry Joe. She knows he’s a good catch. It does mean that eventually she’ll get tired of Joe, and go for another spin around the carousel. And if she comes from a sexually repressed family / church culture, then she’ll sprout wings and fly.
But, how’s Joe supposed to know about her history if she doesn’t tell him?
26. If she’s had sexual experiences in the past, look for undeniable repentance.
How? If Jolene’s a skilled deceiver, she can fake repentance long enough to hook foolish young Joe.
29. Don’t confuse her physical and emotional attraction towards you for deep compatibility.
Once foolish young Joe is hooked, it’ll be difficult for him to tear himself away.
Sounds bleak, doesn’t it? What hope is there for foolish young Joe?
33. Trust in God to find a wife, not in your own abilities.
What Roosh doesn’t say is that God almost always chooses to work through people. God may choose to miraculously drop the perfect wife in Joe’s lap, but it’s a lot more likely that God will choose to use trusted friends and family to steer foolish young Joe away from Jolene, and introduce him to Joanne.
But that requires a community.
The Value of a Community in Finding a Spouse
Remember what I wrote above about giving it time. No one can behave inconsistently with their character long term. In a community, people’s true character eventually surfaces. They develop a reputation, and that reputation tends to be pretty accurate.
If foolish young Joe is part of a Christian community, Jake — a trusted, older, wiser relative, and/or brother in Christ — can advise him in the following way.
“That Jolene is awfully pretty, and she seems nice, but her mom is a domineering shrew, and there are some dark rumors about how she treats Jolene. Plus, she has a past with immoral men, and although she says she’s repentant, she’s been hanging around Chad and Tyrone a lot. She has a lot of growing and healing to do, and you’re not the guy to help her with that.”
Jake’s wife, Jan can then tell Jake that she knows this girl, Joanne, who’d be great for foolish young Joe.
None of this is possible without community, and we all know how tough it is to find a Christian community these days. Furthermore, I’ve noticed that men who have a difficult time attracting women don’t just have a difficult time only with women. They also tend to have a difficult time making friends, period.
For those of us who have kids, our best bet is probably to find such a community as early as possible.
Conclusions
I’ve written many things that young men should be aware of, but none of this is a guarantee. King Solomon wrote a lot about contentious, foolish wives who tear their households down with their own hands, and are rottenness in their husbands’ bones nearly 3,000 years ago — but finding a spouse through a community is a far safer bet than what most people are doing these days.
Try applying Roosh’s hard-won wisdom to some random chick you met at a bar, or on Tinder. Good luck with that.
Finally, none of this is meant to criticize the foolish young Joes of this world. All of us who are older, and hopefully wiser, were once foolish young Joes, and many of us have the scars to prove it. We’re not meant to do this the way most of us did — alone, with little to no guidance, or even worse, with pretty lies in our heads.
May God protect the foolish young Joes, and grant us older men the grace to be of some help to them.
Related
- Σ Frame: On the Spiritual Significance and Social Value of Game (2019/11/3)
- Christianity and Masculinity: A core understanding of game, and its interactions with our purpose and sanctification (2019/11/3)
- Σ Frame: An Interview with American Pilgrim author Roosh Valizadeh (2021/3/31)
- Σ Frame: The intermediate goal is to get past the blinding obsession (2022/4/25)
- Σ Frame: Laying out Expectations (2022/10/20)
- Σ Frame: Very few women can be Molded. (2022/10/27)
- Christianity and Masculinity: Sustainable leadership (2022/10/31)
