Girl Game: If He’s Into You, He’ll Ask You Out

Reader:  Hi Athol, I had written to you awhile back about my high school daughter and future dating,etc in which you responded with the blog –the purpose of high school is to get an education not herpes!

Anyway, we felt you were right on with that one.  You mentioned getting the book –The Rules—which we did.   We (husband included) thought it was great and have been using the basic principles in day to day interactions with others too.   What I was wondering,  in the beginning on a relationship, the book stresses not approaching the guy/man first—not even looking at them, etc.  How important do you think that is ?   How into the woman will the man be long term (marriage, etc.)  if she does the initial approach?

It seems like most problems with people have to do with a mismatched sex rank.  How do prevent that from the very start?  Also, I’m wondering how much of it has to do with deep down hormone levels that we aren’t even conscious of.  I’ve read you can detect levels through smell.  Maybe the mismatch comes from a mismatched hormone levels.  I’ve read men’s testosterone levels drop with marriage and fatherhood.  As the levels drop, maybe the woman subconsciously senses this and becomes less attracted.  If the levels stay up with exercise, weight lifting, diet, etc.  maybe the woman’s attraction stays up too?

You may have written about this already.  My daughter has mentioned that one of her friends is on her third boyfriend this year and she herself has had none (good thing!)  I wonder how much of it has to do with the way she smells.  Very animalistic isn’t it? Thanks!

Athol:  “The Rules” essentially boils down to a description of how women can display high value as a way of pulling male attention. High value women are approached by men, and with high frequently. When she approaches him, she’s basically tipped her hand that she is interested in him, and the implication is that he’s a higher Sex Rank than she is. Once that happens, the male is no longer in pursuit mode, and the dopamine shuts down because he no longer needs to make any risk taking moves to get her attention and gain her interest. Which essentially makes him react to her with “cool.” (Which drives her crazier for him because of the hypergamy factor)

If all you’re looking for is a hook-up, then it’s no problem to make the first move. But in terms of getting to an actual relationship, it’s not the greatest of ideas to make the first move if you’re a female. You’re better off displaying higher value and waiting it out.

However, I’m not convinced that not even looking at them is of value. That’s running into the “cold distant bitch” zone. Be pleasant, engaging and fun, but he’s the one that should be trying to escalate things – typically an isolation play. “Hey, you want to go get coffee?”

I’m not sure I have a firm answer to the mismatched Sex Rank thing. It’s easy to turn things on for a short period, and then once the relationship is solidified, to go “Phew!” and relapse to your normal baseline. Some times people self-improve once they are in a relationship, or suddenly gain confidence “hey I can do this!” and so on. Some people lie their ass off too and purposely cover things up that their partner should know about. 

Women can’t smell male testosterone as far as I know, but they can through sense of smell unconsciously identify men that have a good immune system compatibility for creating a healthy baby. The major negative effect on her sense of smell is taking hormonal birth control as it tends to create a reversal effect in the men she is attracted to. So if a couple meets when she is off birth control pills, and then she starts on them, she can have a libido reduction from the birth control pills in a general sense and a reduction in her attraction to her partner in a specific sense. So for some couples it’s a real downer.

The other way it works is if a couple meet and she is on birth control pills, once she’s off them to try and have kids or use a different method, she can feel less attracted to her partner. Plus she may not be as genetically compatible with him as she could be, leading to poorer outcomes with pregnancy and the baby’s health. Before anyone panics though, bear in mind that these are simply influences on the outcome and not destiny. Plus there’s still a lot of science left to do on this stuff.

The volume of testosterone in men does take a two-step dip down after marriage and the arrival of a baby Primarily the male has a lot of testosterone to assist in engaging in risky mate finding behaviors, but having reached the Body Agenda goal of actually getting a mate and having a child, the Body Agenda turns to a more conservative strategy of defending what they have. Thus men tend to become more settled and calm after getting married and having children. Or put another way, men who have no offspring have from a Body Agenda perspective, have nothing to lose. While those that have offspring do have something to lose, so they play it safe.

Testosterone drop in aging men plays a role in diminished libido, energy levels, mood, impulsivity and a ton of other things that are generally sexy. So the results of lower testosterone levels can be an attraction killer for the women. And yes, exercise, diet and weights can increase the testosterone level in men, so generally a good thing for overall male health.

I don’t know your daughter or her friend, so I have no idea why the difference is as it is. High school is an awkward age for some kids, and some peak early. You never know how people will turn out over the very long haul.

And yes, sex is very animalistic. It’s a very humbling thing sometimes to have your body suddenly want to lurch itself toward someone you know isn’t a good idea to be in a relationship with, and then become non-reactive with someone you know is a good idea to be in a relationship with. The trick is finding that person that is the balance that can do at least some of both.

Which brings us full circle to whether or not a woman should make the first move. If she has to make the first move, he’s just not that into her enough on a Body Agenda level to be motivated to make the first move. That’s not particularly fixable either, so she can waste her best years trying to get him to react like he’s into her before she figures out it’s just wasting her time. This is a driving force behind the thing where the long time girlfriend begs and pleads with her boyfriend to marry her, but he’s “Just not interested in being married.” So eventually she splits from him and then within a year he’s getting married to his new girlfriend. Cue up, “He said he would never get married and now he’s getting married to someone else, why didn’t he marry me?!?!”

So the first move thing acts as a very basic screening tool for women. If he’s into you, he’ll ask you out.