Feminism Responsible For The Fall Of Rome..

2012-08-03T03:51:04+00:00

I have to say, this dudes version of how Rome fell doesn't really correspond to what modern historians understand about the empires decline.

~5 century AD: The Empire is ruled by an elite of military men that use the Emperor as a puppet; due to massive debts and financial problems, the Empire cannot afford to hire foreign mercenaries to defend itself (Roman citizens have long ago being replaced by mercenaries in the army), and starts "selling" parts of the Empire in exchange for protection. Eventually, the mercenaries figure out that the "Emperor has no clothes", and overrun and pillage the Empire.

humanity falls back into the Bronze Age (think: eating squirrel meat and living in a cave); 12 centuries of religious zilotry (The Great Inquisition, Crusades) and intellectual darkness follow: science, commerce, philosophy, human rights become unknown concepts until they are rediscovered again during the Age of Enlightenment in 17th century AD.

Pretty much all of that is wrong. If you would like to learn more about Rome (because I'm not about to cover hundreds of years of history for you in a TLDR), I recommend openculture.com and its free history courses.

Grapeban · 2012-08-03T02:33:40+00:00

That's the most ridiculous thing I've read in a long time. Here's the crucial parallel drawn:

~5 century Rome = present day America. America is ruled by an elite of cognitive jackpot winners who use the President as a puppet. Massive debt and financial chicanery is practically enshrined in law. The army is less and less filled with the demographic slice American citizens that used to make up its ranks. Mercenaries (UN peacekeepers, bribed warlords, arm-twisted allies, recent unassimilated immigrants, and the desperate, poor and out of shape) now make up a larger part of the tip of the spear that projects American power. America is in the process of slow-motion selling off the Southwest to appease the millions of peasant illegals it cavalierly allowed to invade and settle in the country.

Ignoring the hot spicy racism, it's not at all explained why any of this is the fault of feminism. The author merely harks back to a time when the father was in charge and the women weren't "slutting around", and then later identifies the rise of woman's suffrage (something which didn't happen in Ancient Rome) as the "poison pill".

And then it just gets more absurd. Let me correct an earlier statement and not ignore the hot spicy racism, I think it would be easiest if I just listed all the racism, homophobia and sexism.

Racism:

a largely homogeneous population

Slight hint of racism, made much stronger by later statements. Basically the idea is "Foreigners are bad!"

[at this point I'll note that the author doesn't seem to understand what "individualism", apparently identifying these things as it:

The scourge of single momhood, free and easy divorce, child support laws, majority female colleges, DADT repealed, gay marriage, game, etc etc ad infinitum]

The native stock of America, (sopecifically, the betters of that stock), have stopped having kids.

Does this even need explaining? "Foreigners are bad! The natives aren't breeding!"

A reborn religion called Islam threatens to co-opt the sympathies of Western societies' rootless rejects and masculinized women.

"Foreigners are bad! Especially those Muslims!"

The army is less and less filled with the demographic slice American citizens that used to make up its ranks.

"Foreigners are bad! They're in the army!"

Mercenaries... recent unassimilated immigrants

Doesn't seem to understand what "mercenary" means.

America is in the process of slow-motion selling off the Southwest to appease the millions of peasant illegals it cavalierly allowed to invade and settle in the country.

"Foreigners are invading!"

Homophobia:

homosexuality become widespread.

A sign of the end of Rome apparently.

[also, author doesn't seem to know that Rome was sacked by barbarians, not just "mercenaries"]

DADT repealed, gay marriage

The horror, America is falling! (author doesn't seem to understand that both those things started happening after 2000, not before it)

Sexism:

The family unit is essentially "father knows best", and slutting around by women is considered the height of shameful behavior, (as is cadding about by men). Monogamy is held up as the ideal arrangement without exception. (The "Wild West" might be an exception to the general rule of the day, as whoring and hell-raising were widespread in the frontier.) Lessers look up to their betters as exemplars of moral rectitude.

Just this whole paragraph. All of it. Fine, specifically, the implication that women are among the "lessers". For the misandry hunters among you, notice the male slut shaming (a rare sight!) and earlier we have the idea that men must have ALL THE RESPONSIBILITY.

But the poison pill has been swallowed; the suffrage movement achieves its main goal, and the dark shroud of the equalist era is about to descend. In academic halls andclassrooms, lessers are pedestalized, while betters are denigrated.

Again, the lessers thing. Also, the horror of women voting apparently.

The scourge of single momhood

The scourge no less!

majority female colleges

Now, that's not a good thing, but it's the implication that it's a bad thing specifically because women are in the majority that's sexist.

masculinized women.

Women must be feminine flowers! Otherwise they make America crumble!

Yeah yeah, I'm just messing around, teasing this poor guy. But it's an absurd article, undeserving of strong rebuttal. It doesn't need strong rebuttal. I barely provided rebuttal, I just pointed and laughed and it collapsed, since it's basically rooted in a very flimsy grasp of history (seriously, Rome was a matriarchy?), sexism and a good bit of ol' fashioned racism and homophobia.

Edit: Oh, and the parallels drawn don't even make sense. For example, women never got the vote in Ancient Rome.

2012-08-03T02:10:25+00:00

Yeah there really are parallels here. Ultimately men are the protectors and driving force behind civilization. We the ones who take the risks and take the hits to advance whatever civilization we are in. The more men are weakened the more that driving force begins to fail.

Over time civilizations ultimately become more and more effeminate as their wealth and power grows. Sooner or later they end up getting conquered and ravaged by stronger men who have been living the harder and thus more strengthening/empowering life of hunter gatherers.

Then the new barbarian rulers settle down and enjoy the fruits and domestication of society only themselves to end up in time also being conquered by yet more undomesticated men who are hardened by tribal life.

I wonder what Jared Diamond would have to say about this theory.

I tell you another thing. When this civilization collapses the women will be going back into the laundry rooms and kitchens with very little to be said about it. Feminism won't survive the collapse. It never does. What's cool to me is that show Walking Dead actually addressed this issue.

To put it another way, if women take all of the power away from men in a civilization, why should we fight to defend it and keep it alive?

Title	Feminism Responsible For The Fall Of Rome..
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	0
Comments	5
Date	August 3, 2012 1:51 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/xlj8j/feminism_responsible_for_the_fall_of_rome/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/feminism-responsible-for-the-fall-of-rome.1016650 https://theredarchive.com/post/1016650

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