Do people who have improved their technique tremendously over time give better advice than naturals who perform just as well?

ThrowawayPUA · 2013-08-24T13:42:09+00:00

[permanently deleted]

catsinmyunderpants · 2013-08-24T13:38:59+00:00

There are different categories, I would say there are three.

The ones who lack any personality and need to use a bunch of techniques and the like to "fake" being interesting and funny.
The ones who are natural but due to bad self esteem or the like they can't really be themselves fully. All it takes in this case is the switch to activate that good self.
Ones who got a lot of social training and positive attention during their youth which lead them to easily get womenz.

ThrowawayPUA · 2013-08-24T15:01:34+00:00

I was recently listening to a podcast that addressed the difference between naturals and people who had to learn pickup (let's just call them PUAs for convenience of my typing, although that isn't a great term in this context).

Naturals have some skills, but they generally don't know what their skills are, at least not in any detail or in a way that is applicable to other guys. For everything naturals do right, they do something wrong. When everything lines up, they seem unstoppable, but they make errors constantly and blow out of sets frequently.

In fact, they do more wrong than right, usually. When they do succeed, it may be because they stumbled across a woman that their natural abilities work with, and don't mind their problems. They may even unconsciously seek out women who are more susceptible to their good bits, and would not mind their rough spots. These naturals would benefit a lot from some formal pickup studies, they could learn where they're going wrong and eliminate errors, and let their natural advantages work better.

None of the skills of a natural are very helpful to the average guy. Compare it to one of the first structured methods, the M3 model. Every seduction goes through attraction, comfort, and seduction, in that order. It happens that way whether you are conscious of it, or not. There are specific techniques to help you through each stage. Most guys stumble through a seduction at random, and perhaps it all lines up and they "get lucky." But we want more than luck. If you know how the stages work, you can help pull a woman through those stages in a way that seems natural, and after the seduction, she says "I didn't mean for it to happen, it just seemed so natural."

Now I'll make a different analogy, to foreign language instruction. Everyone wants a teacher who is a native speaker of that language, they're the naturals. They grew up learning those skills and can speak in the manner we are trying to learn. We really have to emulate their speech, and be exposed to it a lot. But any random average native speaker does not have the slightest clue how to teach that language to someone else. They have to study teaching methods and apply them, or else their students learn nothing. Even worse, a native speaker may not actually know the "rules" of the language, even though they have internalized them and can use them effortlessly. I remember many times when I would ask my teacher (a real expert with a PhD) specific grammar rules and she'd say how to use them, but didn't know exactly why, she said she'd go look it up and tell me once she figured it out.

When I took Japanese classes, almost all the instructors were native speakers from Japan. But one teacher was my favorite. She was an American who had spent two years studying in Japan. She still had a fairly unnatural American accent when she spoke, but overall she was pretty good. But she had one huge advantage as a teacher. Just about 4 years ago, she was a noob student too. She knew what we were going through, because she went through it herself. This is something no native speaker can understand. She knew what areas were particularly difficult for us, and what we needed to do to overcome those difficulties, because she had struggled through those same problems.

So yeah, I am generally of the opinion it's better to learn from some guy who used to be an AFC and had to learn this the hard way. I occasionally see criticisms of certain methods that seem intended to take a small demographic of attractive young guys and give them just a few missing skills so they can become club stars. This is usually the approach of instructors who are naturals. They don't know how to teach anyone who doesn't have natural advantages. But the average guy who was an AFC and had to learn this the hard way, knows what challenges the average guy needs to overcome. He learned it the hard way, just like we will have to. I think they're better teachers because of that.

Title	Do people who have improved their technique tremendously over time give better advice than naturals who perform just as well?
Author	Per_Petual
Upvotes	5
Comments	6
Date	August 24, 2013 12:19 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/1l001t/do_people_who_have_improved_their_technique/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/do-people-who-have-improved-their-technique.1357361 https://theredarchive.com/post/1357361

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