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To what extent are gender roles socially constructed, and are there gender roles you would like changed?

caxica
April 14, 2014
3 upvotes
/r/askTRP
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Post Information
Title To what extent are gender roles socially constructed, and are there gender roles you would like changed?
Author

caxica
Upvotes 3
Comments 27
Date April 14, 2014 6:29 PM UTC
(12 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/askTRP
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/230vua/to_what_extent_are_gender_roles_socially/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/askTRP/to-what-extent-are-gender-roles-socially.139369
https://theredarchive.com/post/139369
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Comments

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Watch this: http://vimeo.com/19707588

[–]TaiGat0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If you find this interesting you might want to check his other videos too. Here's the RP thread: /r/TheRedPill/comments/1vuho8/the_documentary_that_made_scandinavians_cut_all/

[–]Matt_Phyche0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I watched this documentary last night. It's golden.

I'm a feminist, I mean it, and I love it.

It has lots of interviews from professors in many fields who have done research or are quite knowledgeable. It is very informative about many things. Obviously I have some problems with it, but overall I would recommend it to many people to watch. Along with about a dozen or so genuine and trustworthy studies/articles. 1 2 3

One thing that I find very interesting is that during the one of the parts they show some graphs of hormonal differences. They are a lot of dots, something like red dots for females and blue for males. I believe they were ranked something like age on the vertical axis and hormone patterns on the bottom. What you saw was two distinct clusters of red and blue signifying two common hormonal patterns [ratio of testosterone to estrogen or something perhaps]. But what you also notice, is a lot of other dots all around, like bees. Some 'male' dots were further into the 'female' side than the large blob, some 'female' dots were further than the 'male' dots into the 'male' side. Honestly, in the 'male' cluster there are some 'female' dots.

While this signifies a trend, since those dots are not errors but actual data points, they must be counted as significant.

I'm a physics student. I am quite familiar with the scientific method. To take data and to get two trends but points all over (that are not measurement errors like you would get in a physics experiment due to fluctuations in heat, friction, etc. but are genuine datapoints) and disregard them is, frankly, unscientific.

You can make the claim that people had gender roles in the past, fine, I actually agree with you. Feminism is in part the study of how these gender roles are not necessary [many gay and transgender couples don't adhere to gender roles and get by incredibly well, the actual task of gender roles are environmentally influenced based on like if you're in a desert or some shit, literally any conception of male/female, in-between, both, and neither has existed in some society pre-1900]. Feminism is also the study of how the adherence to gender roles can be harmful. Not to just women or them queer folk, but to men as well. Many of the grievances I have seen aired on TheRedPill have echoed criticisms that I have heard from females. Actual criticisms of these issues from male perspectives is not shunned, but actually deeply desired. But they have to amount to more than 'because females are bitches'.

[–]AfterC4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Google "sexual dimorphism."

A great deal of feminists and sociologists would love to have you believe that all gender roles are socially constructed. Unfortunately for their arguments, biologists, psychologists and neurobiologists would indicate otherwise.

Strength, aptitudes, skills (all within a range), as well as the ability to bear children are all determined by sex.

There is no such thing as "different but equal." If males and females (of any species!) were identical biologically, we would reproduce asexually, having no need for genders whatsoever!

[–]caxica[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I don't think most gender roles are completely socially constructed but I think it's equally disingenuous to pretend they are completely biological. If that were the case there would be no variation between cultures

[–]AfterC2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Whose straw man argument are you addressing? I never made a claim they were completely biological - otherwise they would be universal across every human population, as you addressed.

I'm simply refuting the most common argument you may have encountered.

[–]caxica[S] -3 points-2 points-1 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

you didn't explicitly claim it was all biological but you didn't exactly claim otherwise either

[–][deleted] 0 points0 points0 points 12 years ago | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]RedArgonaut1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Are you saying that TRP theory contradicts modern science?

[–]ben0wn4g31 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

The whole point of trp is to look at the facts and nothing but the facts. No sloppy opinions, no PC don't want to hurt your feelings bullshit. So actually, it's a great place to ask.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points1 points 12 years ago | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wow! I thought I was the only one that saw the red pill on par with creationists!

A few weeks ago a post was down voted to to controversial because a guy that tried the red pill claimed that it didn't work for him, then yesterday a post was being up voted because a teenager told his mum to fuck off because he didn't want to go to his grandmas.

It's like a weird cult.

[–]ben0wn4g31 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well I can't speak for everyone but I wouldn't ever disregard cited facts.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm not trying to be a dick, but I really would like to see your citations.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points1 points 12 years ago | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

We can start with gender roles. Or anything you feel refutes anything TRP seems concerned with.

[–]duglock0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I believe you are getting downvoted because your opening sentence is a blanket insult to the members of the sub. Most people use personal insults when they don't have facts and I'd assume the members here make that association.

[–][deleted] 3 points3 points3 points 12 years ago | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]duglock-2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

TRP members are extremely misinformed about sexual dimorphism.

There is your insult.

It's irrational to ask random people questions about something they have no background in and expect a scientifically sound answer instead of people who are actually educated on the topic.

And there is another one. You are assuming the people in this sub are uneducated and lack scientific knowledge - which the whole sub is based of biology which is...science.

I'm not sure why you are going off about climate deniers and religion either. Just stick to the topic and provide facts and keep it impersonal and I think you might have a better response. Best of luck!

[–] points points points 56 years ago | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]duglock0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If you are interested in understanding the sub, I might recommend checking with an evolutionary psychologist rather then a neuroscientist. Also, Jonathan Haidt is a social psychologist and his books are usually pretty interesting and insightful.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Honestly, what is the point of your comment? You're pretty solid in your opinion of the subreddit and gender roles. You claim there is no possibility of changing our opinions with facts. Yet here you are. It's like you think you're saving the OP with your grand insight but you DGAF at the same time because terpers are practically creationists.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Instead of bashing the people in this sub, how about you give us your evidence that disproves TRP?

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points1 points 12 years ago | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

If you're not presenting evidence because it's "not worth time or effort", then why do you even bother writing your little rant here? If you just want to blame other people without backing your argument up with evidence, then I suggest you piss off. Your attention whoring is worse than that of most women.

[–]gatorademebitches0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There is a thread on TRP from four days ago in which it says 'The red pill does not engage in "the citation needed fallacy". TRP doesn't provide sources, and if they do it's mostly pseudo-scientific BS.

Here's an example of them dismissing science because it doesn't back up their world view http://np.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/202zoa/men_and_women_do_not_have_different_brains_claims/ anything that disproves AWALT makes terpers go 'lol feminazi bullshit' then confirmation bias makes them all believe they're right.

It's harmful when you only look at things that agree with your world view, It's good to look at evidence from all sides which is why I visit thebluepill, read up on issues for both men and women and visit mensrights even though I would never associate with them.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He used to present evidence, but like creationists do, the red pill down voted his input because it didn't agree with the red pill philosophy.

Also, creationists tend to get irrationally angry when people try to oppose their views using science and logic, much like you are right now.

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