There is a post up now about going beyond seduction and seeing a man and woman attracting each other as something natural and largely ineffable rather than an act of seduction/pickup where one person essentially "gets" another person to do what they want.

It is a very good post and after talking to OP, I see he is a good man, smart, and is one the correct path.

However, I would like to assert an addendum to anyone who believes that they have "gone beyond game."

And it is this: seduction is a cooperative act of dreaming.

When a man first begins learning how to "seduce" women, he believes that he is "tricking" the woman into sleeping with him. That's how I used to think about it, at least.

"This girl doesn't want to sleep with me and I have to convince her to open her legs."

You learn how to be attractive, hold conversation, bring up topics that make her feel both understood and sexually aroused, and then take her somewhere where you can capitalize on this attraction.

And it works. You get laid. You get girlfriends. Huzzah.

But then, somewhere along your journey, you look back and you say, "Why have I been seeing it this way? After being with so many women, I realize that they love sex! They like having sexy time with a sexy guy. Who needs all these tips and tricks to get them in bed?"

Thus, he believes he is beyond game. All of those ways of acting, those beliefs about women, the conversational topics, the fine tuning of your intonation and speech cadence - it all becomes a fairy tale.

If a woman likes you, and you show interest, and you isolate her, sex will usually happen.

Simple. Easy. Not hard.

But what this new perspective fails to understand is that you only understand this because you took the time to study along the way.

An analogy for this is building a car.

You build an engine, you slap a body kit onto a frame, you put all the thinga-ma-bobbies into it, you fill it up with gas, and you drive it. After so long, you focus on one thing only - pressing the gas and turning the wheel.

You think to yourself, "Ah, driving is so simple! You press the gas."

You forget about all the work that went into it. You spent months and years learning physics, engineering, and physically crafting and putting together every little piece of the car together, down to the last washer.

It seems like magic, and in some ways it is, but that magic only came after years of study. Realization takes time.

This realization itself, the realization of the realization that game is a simple exchange of interest, then leads to the next level of game.

You realize that you were both seducing each other.

Why? Because you realize that the entire motivation for you to learn game and to make it this far was because you were also seduced.

You saw women. They were beautiful. You wanted to have them. To feel them. To hear their beautiful voices whisper sweet nothings to you. To bend them over and delight in them.

Then, the Matrix breaks again.

"Oh, shit. I was seduced just as much as they were."

Remember how she stared at you? Smiled at you? That's when you approached.

Hell, even her putting on that sexy red dress and putting on makeup for the night was a pre-planned seduction of you. She didn't know you would be the one to fuck her that night, but she planned on someone approaching her. Otherwise, why would she go out?

She laughed at your jokes. She touched your chest when you pulled her in. She let you kiss her when you went for it mid-conversation. She let you take her hand as you led her out of the coffee shop/bar/club. She let you open her legs and thrust inside of her.

So you learned game to get inside of her pants and mind.

But, she made it fun. She made you excited to seduce her.

How?

Well, she played her part. She seduced you as you seduced her. If she wasn't complicit in the seduction, she would have stopped it before it even started.

It's impossible to manipulate someone. They have to let themselves be seduced.

Even when talking to women who have been hardcore fucked over by the most skilled of sociopaths, I eventually had them confess that they knew they were being lied to. Everyone knows they're being duped. Mostly everyone has the whisper in their head that maybe this is just an act. Maybe they're just saying this to get in my pants, get money from me, etc.

And this is only the most extreme of cases. Most of the time, guys and girls really do feel the way they do in the moment that they are trying to seduce one another. Maybe their feelings change after sex or months/years/decades into the relationship, but very rarely is someone thinking to themselves in the moment, "This is all total horseshit. Look at them eating this bullshit up! Muhahhaha."

I've known sociopaths and have seen the insides of their heads in the most vulnerable of moments. They believe their own bullshit, too, and they have their own fantasies.

No one, save for an Awakened Being, is immune to dreaming, and even those who have realized Ultimate Truth, to some extent, have to willingly delude themselves, ever so slightly, in order to operate within the material world. If they didn't, they'd have no motivation to remain here.

Seduction is a dream. You are entranced by another being's looks and words enough to warrant your continued effort in sustaining contact with them. Simply by approaching someone you are stepping into a dream that you and her have woven for the both of you.

Thus, it is impossible to truly manipulate anyone. If your definition of pickup/seduction has any hint of manipulation, it automatically cancels itself out and renders the negative connotation of manipulation useless, as you are also being manipulated into wanting to manipulate another for your own desires.

We can only manipulate ourselves.

Which leads to the next level of the Matrix - you are seducing yourself.

And then the final question - who are you?

I hope this clarifies any misconceptions you may have around the art of seduction or the connotations/denotations of any of the terminology within the art. If it doesn't, you may want to ask yourself if you're simply disagreeing on the definition of particular words to make things fit in to your paradigm.

The next time you find yourself thinking that you're beyond game, realize that you're simply enjoying how far you've made it and willingly forgetting the journey that brought you to the top of the mountain.

"Before enlightenment, a tree is a tree and a mountain is a mountain. During enlightenment, there is no tree and there is no mountain. After enlightenment, a tree is a tree and a mountain is a mountain."

tl;dr - You can't seduce anyone without their permission. It's impossible.

Hector Castillo