This is a response to u/BonerNose, thought I would create a new post for this discussion.

Original thread here: https://www.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/8ioc1y/a_question_for_you_guys/

Okay, let me try tackle these points here. Please add your thoughts in the comments lads.

 

My issue with MGTOW is that much of what I’ve read here might take something that could be factually proven but then follows with misogynistic speculation.

I would agree with this, many of the posts here are low effort memes, women hating speculation and bad philosophy. This is just what happens in reaction to the evidence (Here's it's called the Red Pill Rage). It's natural to react this way to a negative experience.

 

If I buy a new car, let's say a VW, and I've been told this is a great car, extremely useful, loads of features, will help me find fulfilment and improve my quality of life. What happens when that VW turns out be a total let down, issues all over the place, faulty parts, engine leaks etc. I spend a ridiculous amount of money trying to fix it's issues but I end up having to get rid of it and take the massive loss of resources on the chin.

Would I be fair in judging that model of car as not worth the time, money or stress?

What if I find a large group of people online also have had major issues with this VW model? Similar issues, faults and costs of upkeep which ended with a similar bad taste in their mouths. We discuss the issues, speculate the causes and makes memes about how this car totally sucks. We advise others that this car is just not worth the time or money. We research the facts about this car, turns out there is an extremely large chance of one having issues, even many mechanics say this car is crap.

I think it would be fair to assume the reactions and advice of those who bought into this car are fair. Would you buy a car like that?

 

There are a lot of very wise and logical men here. You have to search through the useless banter to find the key ideas. Most subreddits have their top posts flooded by memes and useless jokes, it's what people react to most.

You could be having healthy conversation about addressing the disparity within the feminist movement.

The men's rights / men's liberation movement has been trying to do this for about 40 years, it's gotten them nowhere. MGTOW is just men refusing to participate and walking away.

You could allow women to help you in your mission but by automatically assuming women might have ulterior motives is absolutely sexist.

We don't need women, we don't need help and we don't care. MGTOW is not a movement, there is not political agenda, there are no leaders, it's a collection of ideas that each man can pick from while going his own way. Women ruin male spaces, including the healthy ones (recently the Boy Scouts which is now "Scouts BSA"). We're just standing our ground as a men only forum.

This entire sub is a cesspool of hypocrisy.

The human race is a cesspool of hypocrisy, check all of history. You're just targeting MGTOW because you don't agree with it.

It’s like you want feminism to “get a taste of its own medicine” when in fact there are men and women tackling these issues your focused on in much more productive ways. For example, some people have chosen to make amazing videos highlighting double standards with this kind of thing, in a way where women tend to agree with them.

And more power to them, I applaud them for speaking up for what they believe. It doesn't change that fact that the current social climate is not the best for men and that the most accessible and worthwhile course of action is to walk away. Also, feminism's own "medicine" is in fact misandry, the portrayal and demonization of Men in the media, in literature and in daily interactions is a major contributor to the crisis of men in modern society.

There’s just nothing productive about this sub, in fact I think it paints what you’re doing in a negative light - maybe not in your eyes, but in popular culture’s eyes...

Most of this sub is non-productive true, but most of reddit is non-productive. Just check the top posts each day, it's mostly useless memes and jokes, it adds nothing to people's lives but those posts are still what is posted and upvoted/viewed. Most MGTOW will tell popular culture where to shove it, it has pretty much no bearing on a MGTOW unless causing a direct effect on his life. This sub could be shut down tomorrow and it wouldn't change much.

it’s one thing to generalize a group of people with a very specific collective identity, and another to generalize a race or a sex.

I disagree, it's the exactly the same thing. You can generalize groups from all way up, to all the way down. If those people have something in common, then we can correlate them into a group. This is fundamental to understanding how people think and act.

if you really want to make a difference, then don’t shut yourselves off... appeal to and convince as many people as possible if this change is really important to you.

Can you tell me what exactly you think we are doing? I don't think you actually understand.

We don't want to make a difference, we are choosing not to participate.

 

So what is MGTOW?

Each MGTOW will tell you a different variation of the philosophy. It is the individual man pursuing what he finds fulfilling or worthwhile without being weighed down by someone or something.

I believe the pinnacle of MGTOW to be something along the lines of Buddhism. No marriage, no relationships, no sex or complete celibacy, no kids. Cultivating relationships with family and friends (Male or Female). Peace through reducing attachments to material items and minimalist living. Pursuit of truth and self actualisation through study of philosophy and hobbies.

Cheers