Take the word equality out of your mouth if you think men should “look after you” or “take care of you”

[–]RemarkableNet1152 9 points10 points11 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Furiousforfast -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Maculinists,feminists?

I identify as a female ~~cybertruck~~ egalitarian,its fucking dumb how some girls say that they want equality with a partner while its totally different,with a partner,assuming u have a normal relation ship,depends on ur personality,if ur a person who wants to know u r loved u wpuld want to hear things like that,also,do u know a super precise personality test named 16 personalities? Well apparently i am a logician and well i felt like thye were spying on me or smth cuz i totally felt the description they were writing,so,if i was in a relationship (i am a redditor who i am kidding seriously),i would not care a lot about being reminded someone's love me or sum shit,i would also not need anything in bonus,but for now,from my experience,the one i experienced the most is the friendships,its difficult to find somebody who is like that u can talk to about things u like,but i guess its just my personality

[–]ObviousObservationz 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Furiousforfast 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NarrowLiterature7322 -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]benderXX[S] 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]thenofootcanman -2 points-1 points0 points 5 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]EvilLothar -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]thenofootcanman 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]EvilLothar -2 points-1 points0 points 5 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

You would only be restricting their freedom if it wasn't something the man wanted to do. Men, in general, derive a great deal of satisfaction from providing for, and taking care of, their family. It's something I think we've lost sight of, is that men and women evolved in a specific way, so our brains have also evolved to reward us when we do these things that help for the continuation of the species.

Just like a young man should be able to cook and clean for himself, and do laundry, make the bed, and everything else his mom used to do for him, a woman should be able to fill a gas tank, and change a tire, and set up her own bank accounts, work and earn a living, etc...

This way, neither one is helpless and needing of the other, and helps to create a more equal relationship. However, men "taking care" of women is exactly the same as women "taking care" of men.... we should both take care of each other. It takes different forms for each sex, and each couple, but doing things that you are better suited towards for the betterment of the unit is not a bad thing.

[–]thenofootcanman 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]EvilLothar -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

You are pointing out a specific set of circumstances... and you would be correct. If the guy liked baking, and she liked working on cars, then fine... each couple is capable of doing what they want. However, for the vast majority of the population, there exists a set of predefined variables that lead to something one could call "maximal happiness". There will always be outliers, and if those outliers want to break from what is the "norm" to find happiness.. fine. But when we talk of generalities, and population sized demographics, you have to fall back to the vast majority of circumstances.

You can argue that freedom is running around like dressed like a peacock and singing "I'm a Yankie Doodle Dandy" if you like.... but that wouldn't be the norm, and it probably wouldn't lead to lasting happiness for almost anyone.

Of course you can choose how to live your life. Your happiness, or lack of, is no concern of mine, nor anyone else's. However, equating what I'm saying to "forcing people to live a certain way of life" is simplistic and reductive. If this offends you, perhaps you should just come out of whatever closet you're in and accept that you don't fit what society and humanity would consider "normal" and try to come to terms with it.

[–]thenofootcanman 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]EvilLothar 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]NarrowLiterature7322 -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]RemarkableNet1152 -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BlackBoxInquiry -2 points-1 points0 points 5 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]thenofootcanman 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]BlackBoxInquiry 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Sharing of responsiblity is one thing — but expectation of someone else taking care of 'traditional things' while claiming that those very things are 'sexist', is asanine, not to mention hypocritical and juxtopposed to the claim of 'don't need a man' 'don't need trational roles' (or whatever mix of sentiment is given, the presmise of the statement of 'don't need'.)

If one is in a relathionship of any kind, there are needs. Needs are on both parts, and those needs are being fullfilled, because if not, it won't be a relationship for long. Besides if there weren't needs, then why would anyone enter into a relationship? Boredom?

The cards of how one really holds to the 'feminist' or 'traditional' values come out when it comes to paid activities, dining out and the like. Then, if or when shit hits the fan, esepcially legally. It's those instances where often you'll see equality is eschewed more often than not for the proverbial upper-hand, and sadly that seems what is wanted, the upper-hand and not actual equality.

Once it is seen how the ebb and flow of those things are handled, it's very easy to know exactly where the persons values really are...are they only in word, or in both word and deed?

What's being implied is that shouldn't claim one set of values, despise/condemn/hate the other and then try to cash in on both. Pick one.

Can't be physically dead and alive after all. Can't be both completely wet and dry at very same time. Same with values, can't be 'feminist' and hate then want 'traditional roles' for another. Then refusing many, if not all 'trational values' for oneself, and then expect the other to uphold what would be traditional values for them.

It's the claims, the 'outrage' at 'traditional' things (being sexist or whatever the current buzz label is) and then clinging to those very same 'offensive' values when it suits to benefit them.

As far as 'non-straight relaionships' (as it was put) goes, I may not be the best person to ask this, as I'm not in an SS relationship. Having said that however, if intereested — from what I've seen/heard from friends who are in SS relationships, there's a discussion of expecations and responsibilities...and for the most part, they seem pretty even on sharing responsibilites. Whether the couple divy them up as would a HS couple doing 'traditional' roles, or however they see fit to agree upon, they agree upfront. There are some SS couples as in all relationships that are toxic and one partner is just in it for themselves, for whatever reason. If what i've been told and seen are more common than not, neither parnter is claiming to be the 'relationship victim' and claiming one set of values and then feeling entitled, and cashing in on both. Again, I'd suggest that perhaps this question would be best suited for an array of people directly in SS relationships.

I think for the most part, if all relationships have long, deep and meaningful discussions, discussing and agreing up expectations and responsibilites — all can be hashed out quite quickly and no hurt feelings. Nobody left feeling superior, conversly, nobody left feeling inferior. It's called communication and respect, and as it would sadly seem, that both are a dying art.

I'd suppose that when all boils down bare bones — it comes down to people who fail to impliment, honesty, clear communication, mutual respect, doing self-inventory, giving daily personal effort for themselves and the relationship (for those who are in a relationship or are attempting to get into one)...and by negletcing those very things, gain a sense of entitlement, as if the relationship should be catered to them and them alone, and on their whim, placing importance of one over the other due to that very entitlement. Those types seem more the 'do as I say, not as I do' type people...and I'd also wager that most people on the planet do not want to waste their time to fret over those who are rabidly barking at everyone else, telling them what do to, insisting it has to be that way, but as irony would have it, won't take any suggestion without a complete melt down or public freak out.

In closing, one can be strong and independent and still be in a relationship. However if one claims to be a 'feminist' and thinks 'traditional roles are 'sexist' - yet they still expect the male to fulfill some of those very despised 'traditional role' responsibilites on 'the guy side only' becuase it suits themselves....they may want to truly take a look in the mirror and re-evaluate what they're doing/saying/believing. I think the term they are looking for at that point isn't 'feminist' - but rather the term 'self-centered' and 'selfish'.

[–]thenofootcanman 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]BlackBoxInquiry 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

Well, if truncation (and skimming) is key here - then I'll keep this short.

Expections of any relationship should be discussed earnestly, openly and upfront. Once they are agreed upon, that should be the agreement, being rock-solid.

However and keep in mind much of what is portrayed by many who are self-procliamed 'feminists' (the loud, vocal, almost seething hatred with every word you see on the news and youtube) would very much disagree with what your statement is. To them it's very black or white, and being such, the end statement of which terms they might be looking for would be unequivolly true in those cases, no?

I'm not a 'feminist' - howwever I am all for 'equality', I don't and won't slap lables on top of that. All things should go with talent, merit and agreement. Nothing else should supercede that, not gender, race, religion or politics. It's when those lables are applied, that the seeds of doubt and sincerity begin to be questioned.

[–]thenofootcanman 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]BlackBoxInquiry 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

So, this looks like there's spin being added to this. Ok, I'll go headlong into that.

Issues with the 'movement' is that it very much seems that it's no longer about equality. (that being in my original post).

Take into consdieration the movements original ideals, it's original mission seems very much long since lost by what many consdier 'modern feminism', not just of the mission statement itself, but also it's values, and the execution thereof. It's plain to see what with the majority of the 'modern feminists' who are vocal and nasty in what they say and do, and that seemingly also tramples on everyones voices, not only men in general, but also people like yourself.

In many instances, women have the upper-hand (legally speaking) and either keep quiet about it, or encourage other women to take advantage of the laws that are indeed lopsided to benefit women and are anything but 'equal'. Then they push for more...if equality is still desired and important to the movement as it once was, and the movement cliams to still be 'in tact with it's origins' then why do so many 'feminists' take advantage of unfair laws? They see benefit, they see power, they see the upper hand and they want it. If the movement really wanted equality, they'd stand along side men and change those unfair laws...so, where's the crowds of 'feminists' to help push the proverbial pendelum center for all? Rare...very rare, much like a proverbial unicorn. Heard of, rarely seen or read about, even in fantasy novels.

You can assume anything you'd like, that's for you to decide. 'Tar everyone' as you put it, seems a bit melodramatic. It's a discussion, not me or you name-calling the other nasty names and telling them that they're a horrible person.

I'd say that any person who wants equality, truly can have whatever sort of relationship they so choose.

Anyone can ask anyone to do anything - including asking them make a sandwhich, do the dishes, help with housework, yardwork, car maintenence and more.

Do I do dishes? You bet. Do I do laundry? Hell yes. Do I help with housework. Again, Yes. Why? Because I love not only my partner, I love myself. There are 'traditional' roles that we each take on becuase we either like them, love them or are good at them. Neither of us chastise the other if some slack is given and the other picks up the gauntlet to move forward. That's what couples who are in successful relationships do...not slap labels on stuff and create drama and division with the other.

[–]thenofootcanman 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]BlackBoxInquiry 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

....I'll just leave what's already been said....seriously....

I've explained as best there will be. Keyword, just as you said before as in 'expect' — just as you yourself said you don't want to be 'expected' to do certain things. Two people, two perspectives.

Re-read what's been posted already. It's all there. Every. Last. Bit. I can break it down further, but honestly, I've given it all the time that I'm willing. If it's not understood by reading it once, try another time or two.

Context is where it's at. Keep it all in context and it may make better sense. That's the last I'll say of it, I don't want to spend anymore time in order to keep breaking it down further.

Tip: when your read it to yourself, don't read it in your own voice, pick your favorite male actor, read it in theirs. Seriously. It might help. (I picked Drew Barrymore for this convo)

[–]thenofootcanman 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Title	Take the word equality out of your mouth if you think men should “look after you” or “take care of you”
Author	benderXX
Upvotes	83
Comments	26
Date	December 22, 2020 9:26 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/kiehp2/take_the_word_equality_out_of_your_mouth_if_you/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/take-the-word-equality-out-of-your-mouth-if-you.837677 https://theredarchive.com/post/837677

Comments