Elon trolling Jeff

Because first of all -- in terms of direct losses -- as it crashes, you will doubtless invest more, most likely much more than you have in it at present, you will perceive it as another "golden opportunity" (and then a series of "dead cat bounces" will likely end up consuming much if not all of the prior gains of yourself and various other "true believers").

And then of course there will also be the additional indirect losses that will result in the overall market, and particularly the segment of the market where you have invested your gains.

Moreover, whether you realize it or not; you probably have far more invested in TSLA than you are aware of... via various "mutual fund holdings."

[+][deleted] 7 years ago [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm well aware of my holdings. I have limit orders to sell my remaining shares once they hit thresholds I believe to be obtainable.

Don't be salty.

[–]DWShimoda0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 7 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

It sounds like you have ideological opposition to EVs and you have to rationalize away the fact that I've made good money.

[–]DWShimoda1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]dexter_leibowitz1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Yasai1013 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]DWShimoda2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]SomethingWittyHere11 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]DWShimoda1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]WanderlustYouth0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]DWShimoda2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

I honestly have to agree with you, even though I like electric cars( I plan on building my own, not buying from Tesla), I just don't see it being the gasoline car killer that every one says it will at be, at least not in the next few decades.

They're actually NOT practical, even from a physics standpoint (you're hauling around a shitload of low energy density "dead weight" as the battery discharges)-- and are also nowhere near as "energy efficient" or "green/environmentally sound" as claimed (not when you count in the energy used to create, and well as the energy necessary to salvage/recycle; which I guarantee you will occur FAR faster than with ICE vehicles).

And the much ballyhooed "savings" on maintenance & repair is also illusory; because the primary "drivetrain component" -- the "battery pack" -- is essentially non-repairable, and has a limited (duty cycle) lifespan. While it might (maybe) be possible to replace it when it (eventually, inevitably) "dies"; the cost of doing so is prohibitive relative to the remaining value of the (now no longer "new") vehicle.

That may NOT (yet) have proven true with the "roadster" and other early Tesla models -- which were produced in such small total numbers that they retain inordinate "collector" value -- and which also have enough "PR value" that the company is (at least so far) willing to artificially "subsidize" battery replacement. But... those aspects will not (by definition cannot) remain true of any actual "mass production" Tesla models -- which volume they have not yet actually reached, but certainly are approaching.

It remains to be seen what actually happens to the various "bricked" mass production models when they age -- they MAY actually be considered a large enough hazard (in addition to environmental pollution potential, even a completely "dead" Li-Ion battery pack is a major fire hazard) that laws REQUIRE them to be "recycled"; and impose a tax-penalty-fee on anyone who does NOT recycle them (a high enough cost that paying to "replace" the battery pack might prove to be cheaper, even if it means selling the vehicle off at LESS than the cost of the replacement battery pack: i.e. the "dead" vehicle will not be a $0 value item, nor a +$200 "scrap" vehicle to junkyards, rather it will be a -$5,000 citation for "failure to recycle"; thus even if a new battery pack is say $20,000, it will be cost effective to have it replaced so long as the "functional used car" value is higher than $15,000).

BTW a similar problem exists with most "solar" & "wind-power" efficiency & cost efficiency claims -- the systems are NOT entirely "maintenance free" -- the former (especially the "active" solar, PV panels, etc) typically CANNOT be repaired and must be replaced (a significant portion often before the "average expected lifespan") -- and while the latter (wind) can generally be repaired, the maintenance & repair costs are not trivial.

The end result is that they are really NOT as "renewable" as they claim, and the cost-calculations invariably leave out majority of the maintenance & repair (i.e. replacement) costs, which are a matter of WHEN, more than IF. Add those costs (most of which are highly-skilled labor) back into the equation, and the things are in fact NOT cost effective in anything but very REMOTE locations (where the cost of running exclusive/single user power-lines for grid-power would be prohibitive).

Sadly, the much more practical -- environmentally sound and cost effective and only truly "renewable" -- power generation source: hydro*... especially in "small to medium scale" locations (the number of possible such are actually rather huge) has remained largely undeveloped.

* And ironically enough the ONE power source that Nikola Tesla himself was arguably THE main advocate and driver of establishing (he would have been absolutely appalled to see his name associated with a "D.C. battery" vehicle).

[–]WanderlustYouth1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

While I can't refute what you've said, I'm still going to build an electric vehicle as im generally interested in it but I know what you said isn't directed towards me but towards the "green energy" fantics who think they have some sort of righteous high ground simply because thet can't see the amount of environmental damage it takes to build electric cars( lithium is non renewable and isn't very abundant but many seem to ignore that. However I do have one thing I must ask, doesn't Teslas use AC motors despite having a DC battery?

EDIT: Also on the topic of Tesla what do you think of his more fringe projects? I personally believe that he was onto something that society won't rediscover for another few centuries, one of the primary reasons is how he supposedly had mastery over ball lighting, a phenomenon that still baffles scientists to this day...

[–]DWShimoda1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

While I can't refute what you've said, I'm still going to build an electric vehicle as im generally interested in it but I know what you said isn't directed towards me but towards the "green energy" fantics who think they have some sort of righteous high ground simply because thet can't see the amount of environmental damage it takes to build electric cars( lithium is non renewable and isn't very abundant but many seem to ignore that.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I didn't say they weren't necessarily FUN things. Lots of vehicles -- from race cars to ATV's, most snowmobiles (as used by the typical owner), even small airplanes -- are highly IMPRACTICAL and inefficient vehicles... but they're still FUN as all heck to build, own & operate! (And have a "utility" in that regard... if you consider "fun" to be a utility.)

The difference between them and the various "Tesla" vehicles though -- is that no one is attempting to CLAIM those other vehicles as being "practical" or "super efficient" regular transport vehicles.

However I do have one thing I must ask, doesn't Teslas use AC motors despite having a DC battery?

Yes, and that actually drops the efficiency even further.

Same problem with the so called "Powerwall" things by the way (by which I mean not only the inefficiency due to conversion {on charging} from AC to DC, plus the subsequent {on use} DC to AC inverter loss -- but also the ultimate practicality & cost efficiency of such the things: they're extremely wasteful, and would only be "cost effective" in a place like California which has artificially distorted grid energy pricing {IOW they're basically "gaming" a politically contrived situation, as likelwise do the Tesla cars with the various "incentives & subsidies" without which they are even MORE cost-ineffective)}.

EDIT: Also on the topic of Tesla what do you think of his more fringe projects? I personally believe that he was onto something that society won't rediscover for another few centuries, one of the primary reasons is how he supposedly had mastery over ball lighting, a phenomenon that still baffles scientists to this day...

LOL... at first I though you were talking about Elon Musk's (i.e. Tesla CORPORATION'S) various "fringe" projects -- any and all of which are pure bullshit (even the ones that actually DO function, he's not sincere about following through on) and are mainly proffered for their P.T. Barnum style flim-flammery distraction value -- designed of course also to make Elon appear to have some semblance of (Tesla-like) "eccentric genius" (which in fact he doesn't have at all... he's a "genius" only in terms of his ability to bamboozle others & game the system, a pure con-artist; despite the various claims he's actually not proven to be an engineer or inventor of anything, and no one that I know can even point to anything he himself actually "invented" he generally simply takes credit for other people's work).

As to Nikola's more "fringe" endeavors... well it's really DIFFICULT to say, in no small part because his actual NOTES on most of that were basically destroyed; and majority of what has been written subsequently is (at least from what I have seen & been able to dig through -- and I admit it has been an "interest" but nothing I was ever "obsessed" over) various forms of bafflegarble nonsense (i.e. Star Trek like "technobabble" garbage which SOUNDS like it might mean something, but is entirely bullshit -- akin to "TurboEncabulator" parodies of tech documents/films. BTW if you've never seen it, go do a search on that term "Turbo encabulator" and watch the various vids... hilarious stuff that only "tech" types really get the joke of!)
But who knows... I mean I myself an VERY intelligent and multi-talented individual (not meant as a humble brag, it's simple fact; and while it has a lot of BENEFITS, it also has MASSIVE downsides), but frankly Nikola was so FAR above/beyond me (or in fact anyone I know, and I know some other HIGHLY intelligent, even "ingenious/genius" people) in terms of his actual intellect, his "genius" -- he's the kind of mind that probably only comes along (or at least comes to fore) maybe once in a millennia -- and moreover his mind was so intensively focused, that I really doubt that anyone living is capable of following up his "vision" or understanding of it all. And if we cannot understand it, then we really are not in a position to judge whether it is possible/practical or "insanity" (and that latter is NOT necessarily out of the question; genius also does tend to end in that in one way or another).

[–]WikiTextBot1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Turboencabulator

The turboencabulator or turbo-encabulator (and its later incarnations, the retroencabulator or retro-encabulator and Micro Encabulator) is a fictional machine whose alleged existence became an in-joke and subject of professional humor among engineers. The explanation of the supposed product makes extensive use of technobabble.

The gag was popular for many years. The following quote is from the original Students’ Quarterly Journal article written by J. H. Quick in 1946.

[–]WanderlustYouth1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Elon Musk's (i.e. Tesla CORPORATION'S) various "fringe" projects -- any and all of which are pure bullshit (even the ones that actually DO function, he's not sincere about following through on) and are mainly proffered for their P.T. Barnum style flim-flammery distraction value -- designed of course also to make Elon appear to have some semblance of (Tesla-like) "eccentric genius" (which in fact he doesn't have at all... he's a "genius" only in terms of his ability to bamboozle others & game the system, a pure con-artist; despite the various claims he's actually not proven to be an engineer or inventor of anything, and no one that I know can even point to anything he himself actually "invented" he generally simply takes credit for other people's work).

THANK YOU I have a friend of mine who loves to suck Elon's cock whenever he has the chance to, and keep telling him that Elon has done NOTHING revolutionary, and the supposed things that he says he's going to build that are "novel" usually we're already thought up or just a shit idea, the only thing I can give his ENGINEERS/SCIENTISTS credit for are the reusable rockets. From what I can tell, his Tesla company wouldn't have been able to survive if it wasn't subsidized the during Obama's presidency, its only now beginning to turn a profit.

his actual intellect, his "genius" -- he's the kind of mind that probably only comes along (or at least comes to fore) maybe once in a millennia -- and moreover his mind was so intensively focused, that I really doubt that anyone living is capable of following up his "vision" or understanding of it all

It sucks that there probably will never be another Tesla but I do hope that maybe one day the government will release some more of his old work that they took after Tesla's death...

[–]DWShimoda1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

THANK YOU I have a friend of mine who loves to suck Elon's cock whenever he has the chance to, and keep telling him that Elon has done NOTHING revolutionary

Elon himself most definitely hasn't. A simple look at & through the list of patents he's been named on, is sufficient to demonstrate that.

First note that there's a grand total of 8.* Then when you actually LOOK at the handful of patents he has/is named on... well:

the 4 from circa 97 are all multiple-inventor patents; are rather dubious "business-process/software-method patents"; 3 were actually granted, but were never "licensed" to anyone OTHER than Elon's own company, and weren't even maintained & expired for that reason (i.e. renewal fees -- which are trivial -- were not paid); the fourth was applied for but then simply "abandoned" (one presumes the chief value of all 4 was to create the "illusion" of innovation & IP asset value for his Zip2 company -- i.e. the pre-PayPal dot-com era things.)
the 4 from circa 2012 are likewise all multiple-inventor patents (again NOT some "woke up from sleep & scribbled out drawing of 'solution' to nagging problem" single-inventive-genius things); worse yet 3 of them are easily obtained "design" patents, and one of those is a sort of backup-plan patent related to the other (4th of the 2012 era) mechanical patent for the vehicle charge port & plug (which frankly doesn't contain anything all THAT novel or unique -- at least it hasn't been shown to have enough value for anyone ELSE to want to bother licensing it... so *yawn*).
Also... consider that Tesla has over 600 OTHER patents (some of them actually innovative), and yet Elon is named on none of them, not even as "co-inventor" -- granted many of them come from BEFORE he joined the firm in anything other than a "passive" investor capacity; but that too is sort of the point: the MAIN aspects of the Tesla vehicle's "system/design" already existed BEFORE he was really actively involved (which didn't happen until 2008 (when the real "driver" of the company's car design, Martin Eberhard {who BTW is named on hundreds of patents} was ousted).

Now, to be sure, it might be possible that -- under SpaceX -- he has invented some things that have been issued "hidden" patents (i.e. deemed to have "national security" value)... but I rather sincerely DOUBT that... again despite the "hype" Musk is not (and never has been) a "rocket scientist" in any way, shape or form.

And when it comes to SpaceX... well the reality there -- not only that Elon really ISN'T directly involved in ant actual engineering (I mean seriously? Gimme a break, the guy has a grand-sum-total of ZERO actual experience with ANY engineering discipline even remotely related to the field) -- but moreover while SpaceX has done some "innovative" things in terms of actually getting NEW rockets into production, as well as various "test" project things (BTW many of them of somewhat dubious application value), there's nothing there that is really all that "new" in terms of inventive "genius" design: it's all ideas that have existed (and often largely been proven) decades ago. Moreover such things are MASSIVELY "teamwork" -- and even subcontract company -- things (to wit here's a pic of the people that worked on the Dragon capsule notice who is missing? {also as an aside: note the gender of the vast majority}). The chief "driver" of SpaceX is Tom Mueller and his crew; majority of whom (at least the original "core" team) came over along with him from TRW (where Mueller ad been for 15+ years, and which went defunct in... gee quelle surprise 2002, the very year SpaceX was formed); in short SpaceX is (or at least in circa 2002+) was really just TRW's "rocket division" under a new name/owner.

Musk is once again -- at best -- (even more, or depending on your perspective, LESS) a "financier" (and in THAT aspect, banking & politically-well-connected government "no bid contract-funding" obtainer). And then of course a "showman/front-man/cheerleader/PR guy"; to be sure he IS "on hand" (for a day) when SpaceX does some high-profile PR-stunt cum "engineering test", but whatever he talks about/tweets or whatever, is stuff he's fed in the form of talking points/note cards from others -- he's NOT involved in daily operations, and (other than possibly at a superficial "flights of fancy" level -- all of the "Mars" crap -- which is again mostly PR & image bullshittery, (related chiefly to getting public sentiment hyped up so that he can continue to obtain that oh so sweet NASA/government contract-funding & etc) and emphatically NOT "engineering" or even (ostensibly 'high level') "design." I have no doubt he THINKS (maybe even sincerely believes) that he is DEEPLY involved & knowledgeable, and no doubt the various SpaceX employees even indulge & humor those 'grandiose delusions'; but I guarantee you they are also "rolling their eyes" at what an ignorant putz he actually is. (BTW that kind of thing is actually VERY COMMON with "C" suite level management -- versus the people who actually invent, design & build shit -- the vast majority of "C" suite people are "empty suits" {and empty heads} when it comes the actual tech.)

* That in and of itself doesn't mean a person isn't/hasn't been "inventive" -- plenty of really inventive people have ZERO.

And the reason is simple: patents are somewhat expensive to actually obtain (at least for young average or low income Joe Schmo).

Moreover they are really nothing more than a "license to sue" (and frankly unless you have viable funding backing you up -- to not only carry through with the patent but also sustain multi-year court cases, -- they're not worth the bother) you're often better off relying on either copyright and/or "trade secret" aspects (at least until your work has some viable commercial production).

Plus of course to that last point: there is the underlying assumption that some corporation(s) will truly WANT to use the idea (licensed or not); and beyond that, the assumption that your patent COULD really stand up to court-case "lawsuit" level scrutiny (hint: many, arguably most patents issued these days really can't stand up in court; too much 'prior art'; and corporations can drag out lawsuits almost indefinitely).

All that said, patents ARE still considered important; they are "assets" for corporations (a sort of armor & weapon), and if the company you own (or are employed at) HAS sufficient funding, then you/they usually "go for it" (because in that scenario -- in contrast to some "sole independent inventor" -- the cost is relatively trivial).

So the point is, that Elon has so FEW patents -- despite and perhaps especially because he is supposedly DEEPLY involved in so many "innovative" fields -- AND there is no question that ALL of them are "well funded" -- actually IS indicative... of a nearly complete LACK of actual "inventive genius."

[–]WanderlustYouth1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DWShimoda1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It sucks that there probably will never be another Tesla but I do hope that maybe one day the government will release some more of his old work that they took after Tesla's death...

Well, the thing is there are probably far MORE "Nikola Tesla" type geniuses around -- at least in terms of people with the intellectual potential to be such...

But there also has to be the combination of the kind of intellectual & social & financial & even "marketplace" opportunities for such a genius to TRULY be able to FOCUS intently on some specific field... AND to then be enabled, supported, funded, etc.

THAT era -- especially so in the US -- was a very unique one in history: uniquely providing opportunities that fostered his genius (which was only nascent in his native Serbia, and not well supported or recognized even in Budapest or Paris) and then had a sufficient INTEREST in taking advantage of it in industrial & commercial ways (it was THE "dawning" era of major American industry).

One COULD argue that there actually HAVE been a handful of other eras before & since that have fostered/equipped a handful of other geniuses -- albeit probably not quite at Tesla's level (but than again such comparisons are rather dubious at best) -- per example Von Braun & his team members in Nazi Germany; Shockley & others at Bell Labs & later Silicon Valley, etc.; and likewise in Tesla's own general, the Wright Brothers (who really DON'T get the full credit they are due), and of course if you go back in history (when records of WHO specifically actually had the truly "inventive genius" behind various innovations, are even MORE difficult to actually establish with any certainty), there are a handful of others: Nikolai Copernicus "playing with circles" as he stated it; probably Gutenberg (who certainly had the skillset, though there is some question whether it was actually him or perhaps some "unknown" employee/apprentice that came up with the core concepts, it was likely a "team" effort).

Big problem with our present era -- especially here in the US -- is that our system is FAR too "controlled"; as a result most people, especially wealthy business (and venture capital) people are focused MAINLY on how to "game" the system; and no longer REALLY give a shit about, or do they even truly have the ability to discern ACTUAL innovation, and differentiate it from... well from "bullshittery" (and IMO ironically Tesla/Musk are actually prime examples of this latter, and are demonstrably examples of FAILURES of the present system rather than "successes").

Worse yet are the vast amounts of money thrown at whatever can contrive some "creative destruction" (i.e. raiding of the commons via "trickery") form of scheme/scam, which MAY include some (relatively banal) innovation... ones that ironically OUGHT to be performed by existing companies (but those are too hide-bound in bureaucracy to actually follow through).

To wit: Amazon has been HUGELY successful (albeit highly overvalued) by essentially being/recreating an "online Sears catalog" & distribution system -- there is really NO excuse for Sears (or various other major catalog-warehouse companies) to NOT have done that themselves -- but the reason that they didn't is that the management were too busy "raiding/raping" the existing built out structures (using financial shenanigans to "milk" the value out of them). Or again Uber... what is the REAL innovation there? Is it anything any other "Taxi" company couldn't have done? Nope. But the "incentive" structure of the municipal taxi-license grant was absurdly skewed; anyone inside the companies who could have (and maybe DID) come up with the idea got no hearing, and certainly no opportunity to test/build it; because the management again was bent on "milking" the existing system. (Yet ironically, Uber is likewise similarly problematic -- it's not {and probably never WILL be} actually profitable -- and is chiefly operated as a means to scheme/scam value via financial & tax shenanigans, not the least of which is foisting vastly overvalued stock onto the pension-fund system; as well as sucker a lot of low-wage slave-employees into carrying most of the liability/risk.) Musk's game is (in reality) much the same... just slightly DIFFERENT area of focus (the whole green/enviro schtick stuff).

Unfortunately what that also means, is that a HUGE amount of "intellectual potential" gets directed towards "how do we sucker/scheme/game the system" -- add on that with the fact that we ARE relatively "affluent"; well if the adage that necessity is the mother of invention, then as we are largely bereft of the former, so too will we be bereft of the latter. When the chief "problem" in life is seen as either "obtaining access to, or keeping/hiding 'fake' monetary credit digits"; or worse "alleviating boredom"... well the kinds of innovation you're going to have are going to be directly precisely at those things... even if/when they are (ostensibly) about creating renewable/efficient energy, etc.

[–]WanderlustYouth1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

When the chief "problem" in life is seen as either "obtaining access to, or keeping/hiding 'fake' monetary credit digits"; or worse "alleviating boredom"... well the kinds of innovation you're going to have are going to be directly precisely at those things...

Its turn of events really, but unfortunately even with genius capabilities without the having the funds to turn you're idea into reality then its ultimately useless. The other side to this is going into higher Academia, but even that is quickly turning into a farce where researchers will churn out meaningless bloated papers so that they can receive grant money, essentially just grant slaves at this point. I honestly couldn't care less about money, but it seems that without an adequate amount you'll never be able to escape this stifling system...

[–]DWShimoda1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I think you missed my main point in that paragraph:

When the chief "problem" in life is seen as either "obtaining access to, or keeping/hiding 'fake' monetary credit digits"; or worse "alleviating boredom"... well the kinds of innovation you're going to have are going to be directly precisely at those things...

What I actually meant by that is that a large number of highly intelligent people are devoting their "genius" (such as it may or may not be) to the financial sector -- contriving new "credit system products" (all of the "collateralized debt" & "credit default swap" things, etc) -- or more recently expending massive brain (and computing) efforts on "crypto." And/or various "apps" that, realistically, are just attempts to insert themselves into the middle of some monetary transfer & skim off some 5% or higher for the owners/developers of such.

And working on (not to mention funding) that kind of crap -- which really ISN'T "productive" -- largely to the exclusion of other actually productive (or potentially so) things.

Its turn of events really, but unfortunately even with genius capabilities without the having the funds to turn you're idea into reality then its ultimately useless.

I agree & yet disagree. What it does is alter the way you have to attempt to do so. It's another constraint to overcome; not necessarily a bad one either (sometimes having massive amounts of money available just causes one to waste time on poorly thought out ideas).

The other side to this is going into higher Academia, but even that is quickly turning into a farce where researchers will churn out meaningless bloated papers so that they can receive grant money, essentially just grant slaves at this point.

Academia has always been a rather "farcical" thing; and never an especially good habitation for actual "genius." Modern academia is arguably entirely hostile to it.

I honestly couldn't care less about money, but it seems that without an adequate amount you'll never be able to escape this stifling system...

Depends on what you mean by "escape" -- the key is to get yourself to some (metaphorical) "Lagrangian point" -- and there are many such places, and just as many paths to them.

[–]Itsbbbitch1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]DWShimoda0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with you. The electric car has been attempted many times before and has always ~~been cockblocked by Big Oil~~ failed.

FTFY. Sorry, I just don't buy the whole "conspiracy" thing on that.

BEV's are an interesting concept, but they're really just not practical or cost effective as a general all-purpose consumer vehicle -- they can be semi-viable in certain constrained environments and limited circumstances (especially where they can be relatively lightweight construction; and without all of the weight for the "safety" features needed for a highway-speed capable vehicles); but that isn't the same thing.

Tesla's current success is the result of government subsidies.

FTFY too.

Even if THIS division is successful,

It won't be. Tesla may attain a certain minimal/marginal profitability before it eventually crashes to zero -- but it will never actually earn enough to even pay off what has been borrowed, much less all of the money that has been invested in it.

Elon actually doesn't know how to run a mass product manufacturing company.

SpaceX, which is yet another fraudulent scheme driven entirely by government contract money.

It too exists -- in this case essentially ENTIRELY -- on the "public dole."

ignorant sheep being hyped up over science fiction fantasies about living on Mars.

That's actually one of the "absurd" things that is chiefly being push-promoted to enhance Elon's own reputation. Nothing of the kind will ever happen (nor likely even be attempted, the horrible PR of a failed attempt would be too devastating).

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Elon trolling Jeff

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SAVAGE (if real)

Title	Elon trolling Jeff
Author	nulom
Upvotes	1737
Comments	81
Date	January 11, 2019 11:12 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/aeue9b/elon_trolling_jeff/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW/elon-trolling-jeff.426316 https://theredarchive.com/post/426316