Feminists in Spain are demanding universal basic income

Darkmaster85845 · 2019-12-16T07:36:55+00:00

The only redeemable thing would seem to be that they're not making it strictly "women and children only", but what would happen if enough men just stopped working and lived off the UBI as well? They'd say that the patriarchy is sabotaging the feminist UBI and thus that men are forced to work in order to finance it. 100% guaranteed.

captainian85 · 2019-12-16T08:03:03+00:00

LOL the country is broke and yet those crazy clowns are still delusional. Spain is fucked.

den-kun · 2019-12-16T07:43:00+00:00

Damn I thought it was only the idiots here in the US that want a UBI. I see it’s going global.

Fuxk1n · 2019-12-16T11:03:45+00:00

Spain is done. went in 2005 for a sport event and I wasn't into girls at that time but my god Every single one was 🔥 Like I said here maybe 3 out if 10 is beautiful In Spain it was 8 out of 10. Feminine tan beautiful skin beautiful hair healthy body fat.

Fast forward to 2019 Lived in Spain for two years. Women are the biggest whores ever not attractive not feminine not skinny short hair or shaved head look like they don't shower. Everyone seems to be a swinger and there's no morals or values. One night Met a cute girl that was 18, looked suepr innocent, would make a mortal melt like butter. we were all chatting in group, she eventually revealed to me she'd fuckd over 40 guys and has like 5 on hand right now any time. She even joked about how they are all waiting on her 24/7 thinking they can be the one to have her , so as a joke to prove this she decides to tx four of the 5, "you free tonight?" They all replied within 60 seconds and then she wrote back "Nawh it's fine" to all of them and had the greatest laugh of her life. These creatures are a different breed compared to just 10-15 years ago. It's scary to see no compassion no remorse.

GrisBosque · 2019-12-16T07:53:28+00:00

The only questions: where exactly is the crash point to all this insanity? And who will crash and who will do corrections before hand?

Redhood616 · 2019-12-16T12:39:25+00:00

Gender studies and feminist dance theory degrees not paying to well eh

Ricky584 · 2019-12-16T07:39:27+00:00

Commie bastards !

Since ‘illegal aliens’ do not pay taxes they should have no right to access social services or receive any kind of benefit on the level of the law abiding citizens who pay taxes.

Stay strong men of Spain and fuck universal income nonsense.

Vobat · 2019-12-16T11:51:21+00:00

UBI is coming to all western countries UK will probably miss it out for next 5 years bit depending on who wins 2020 US may be hit.

But no matter what plan for it to happen, don't be one of those that get blindside by this. Me personal I'm looking at retiring in the next few years and may be move to India.

greyman0425 · 2019-12-16T18:04:03+00:00

UBI would be useful in theory given the technological un-employment we will face. The main reason I oppose it is because we men will no see on cent of that money. It will be UBI for women only while the men who still have jobs pay for it and those that don't have jobs get to eat of dumpsters.

Mr-Throb-of-life · 2019-12-16T12:55:16+00:00

Not pretending any expertise but in a way I think that UBI must be open to debate. Does it not also depend on technological advancements. for example a future of AI and robots taking over and doing a lot of the labour. If everything gets more and more cheap etc. Energy and food and housing. UBI may be a necessity of the future. Or not?

mecpaw · 2019-12-16T11:42:35+00:00

Might contravene article 14 of the ECHR.

RunawayGrain · 2019-12-16T21:30:12+00:00

Imma do some favors here:

More than one hundred feminists presented a manifesto in favor of basic income

The signatories defend that a universal and unconditional basic income would be a fundamental tool to guarantee the autonomy of women and placed this proposal on the agenda of feminists.

The Universal and Unconditional Basic Income is a periodic monetary income that the State regularly transfers to all citizens individually and without any conditions in order to guarantee sufficient economic resources for life.

This tool, defended for decades by academic, civil society or social movements proponents, points to a renewal of the redistribution paradigm that displaces paid employment as the only way to access resources for those who have less than the average for the workforce.

Beatriz Gimeno, Anita Botwin, Maria Eugenia Rodríguez Palop, Rommy Arce, Pura Sánchez Sánchez, Marta Malo, Carolina del Olmo or Ruth Toledano are some of the dozens of names that have supported the manifesto.

More than a hundred feminists, together with groups that support Basic Income have given support to the document "Resources and autonomy for all: a feminist manifesto for Basic Income." The text, which has been made public was presented on the afternoon of December 11 during the event "Universal Basic Income: Debates, strategies and horizons", vindicates the power of the feminist movement to advance history.

"Some of us have been thinking for some time that it is impossible to push bets with the power of the feminist movement that aim to guarantee what is necessary to sustain life," the document states. It is within this framework that the fight for basic income is right and urges: "Fight now, without neglecting any of our other important battles."

The document insists that a feminist look at basic income must incorporate "the defense and expansion of public rights and services: health, education, those related to care and those that are about to develop, such as housing" . In addition, they believe that a basic income will contribute to "the material conditions so that our struggle for the distribution of care work can move forward".

Feminists claim that a sufficient private income to survive would give women the essential autonomy to get out of violent relationships or situations of workplace harassment. It would be, they defend: "A real, tangible tool in the face of violence."

The manifesto, which has been signed by activists, academics, journalists, women writers from various spaces, careers and professions, also has the support of the main references of Basic Income in the state.

RESOURCES AND AUTONOMY FOR ALL: A FEMINIST MANIFESTO FOR BASIC INCOME

The feminist movement has a brave, incontestable ability to advance history, even more so than now and has always had to face the reaction of those who do not want anything to change. Feminists challenge inequality and oppression and question each of the structures that condemn social majorities to a devalued life to sustain the privileges of a few.

Some of us have been thinking for some time that it is impossible to push bets with the power of the feminist movement that aim to guarantee what is necessary to sustain life. The life of all and of all. And in that reflection, the possibility of fighting for a Basic Income as a right, is gaining power. Fight now, without neglecting any of our other important battles.

For all these reasons, we believe that the time has come to put Basic Income at the center of the agenda from a feminist perspective. With Basic Income we refer to that individual, universal and unconditional income through which all citizens (women, men of any age, and also boys and girls) are provided with the minimum necessary to live. Why a feminist perspective? Because we understand that this Basic Income must be linked to the defense and expansion of public rights and services: health, education, those related to care and those that are to be developed such as housing. We know that when these services contract or get worse, the consequence is more work on our shoulders and more uncertainty in our stock.

We live starved and with the anguish of being unfulfilled, in that our lives are not sustainable. In the same way that we are afraid of seeing ourselves expelled from the world of employment and become caregivers without economic independence, we are worried about having to neglect the people we want to give all our time to an increasingly precarious job. And we don't want to, we shouldn't be the only ones who care, we need to free up time for everyone, we need the material conditions so that our struggle for the distribution of care work can move forward. Yes, we need resources, we have the right to our time, we don't want more work, we want a Basic Income.

There is no longer a job, no employment in conditions. We know that paid work sucks our lives, and when we don't have it, we eat misery. Employment may not be the only way to access resources for social majorities, because that commercializes and subdues us. We also know that "full employment" - which never really existed - today is simply shown as a chimera, or perhaps just a lie that allows you to go between shit work and shit work. In capitalism, work is not an area of emancipation, but of exploitation, and there is no pleasure, pride or creativity in being exploited. And, be exploited for what? To play our role in the productivity spiral that threatens the planet? In the midst of an economic and social crisis, working all and all less means a huge saving of resources and fewer emissions.

Is Basic Income a feminist measure? A proposal is feminist to the extent that it provides greater autonomy to women, to most of us. And, doesn't that mean money in our world? Perhaps in the future we will be able to create another type of society, but, for the moment, income is autonomy. In the case of women, in addition, having resources also implies less dependence on men: more possibilities of getting out of a situation of sexual violence in a relationship, for example, or of not having to endure insulting working conditions or sexual abuse in the workplace for fear of being fired. Having resources unconditionally would free us from having to expose ourselves to bureaucratic paternalism, to institutional violence to obtain the basics for life when the labor market excludes or mistreats us. Basic income would be, in short, a real, tangible tool in the face of violence.

The basic income is neither a concession nor a gift. It is a radical way of redistributing all the wealth that we produce collectively, which is not only the one that has to do with employment, it is also the value that we generate in homes where care is guaranteed, it is also the social contribution everyone generates in the form of information, knowledge, culture that, not being monetized, ceases to be collective wealth. Therefore, Basic Income is an essential mechanism that, added to the defense and expansion of public services, will contribute to giving us more power, more time and more freedom.

The conditions. We are worth more than basic income which is below the poverty line, because, in that case, we will always have to supplement it with something, which will be miserable. Basic income is not worth it if a single euro leaves social services, without a welfare state, universal basic income is a joke, a tiny umbrella under which to barely take advantage of capitalist storms. Basic income is not worth it if universality is cultivated within increasingly high walls that separate those who are citizens from those who are not. We know that no strategy is the final one, neither will end capitalism or patriarchy, but we believe that ensuring that no one is left behind is an uncompromising goal.

For all this, today we are fighting for a Basic Income and we invite you to join our struggle by signing this manifesto.

I did my best here, but I speak middling Spanish and almost zero insane. Basically, though, they rebranded communism as basic universal income and thought they had a radical new idea.

scocasso · 2019-12-16T22:23:43+00:00

Well, as has become quite evident in recent years and pointed out to me by people familiar with the history of feminism is that they are all about communism, but I'd say even more than that... a communist state of things where the men are the slaves to women. How far do they think they're going to take this? It will only lead to men rising up and putting a stop to them all in a very masculine way, but I guess they're hoping all the cuck men will protect them... but... cuck men are stupid and feminized -- easy to take out. Once the general population of men say, 'you know what? fuck this shit' it's done.

Keisuke_Takahiro · 2019-12-16T23:36:41+00:00

I propose a solution, we build a break away society in Alaska and implement laws which stop stupid shit like this from happening.

Retro_05 · 2019-12-17T19:42:07+00:00

As a spaniard I must say: We. Are. Fucked

foxleader81 · 2019-12-18T04:12:37+00:00

If a basic universal income system is implemented what would incentivized people to perform dangerous jobs, which are usually held by men. Wouldn’t everyone tend to lean on easy jobs if there are no benefit?

some1arguewithme · 2019-12-16T16:14:42+00:00

One shouldn't do the good out of intention of receiving reward, but one also doesn't have obligation to be good if all they get for their goodness is scorn, exploitation and the last place at the finish line.

In economic terms there's an old bit of wisdom that says, "You get more of what you subsidize and less of what you tax." (That's why the people who pull the cart tend to vote for conservatives and the people who ride in the cart tend to vote for liberals.) The principle has general applicability as well, and might be stated as, "You get more of what you reward and less of what you punish."

Leaving aside questions of morality and religion for now, and acknowledging that the vast majority of the effort that "pulls the cart" is done by men, and acknowledging that the main incentive for men to expend all that effort is closely tied to improving their chances of reproductive success, it makes sense to examine what's being rewarded and what's being punished, and by whom. In a stable society the reward for women is the efforts of men (because men are human doings). Women get to live in a safe, comfortable society that protects their interests and ensures their welfare. The reward for men is the women themselves (because women are human beings), and the more successful a man is the greater his reproductive success, with the measure of that success being the number of women he gets, the youth and beauty of those women, and the degree to which he has exclusive sexual access to them.

But that will only remain true as long as the incentives are organized that way. (An even better way is to have men and women pair off exclusively and assortatively, which creates the best possible society for everyone at the cost of sexual variety for women and the most attractive men, but that only works when we include morality and religion in the equation.)

When stripped of sentiment and morality (as we have foolishly chosen to do as a society), and examined purely in economic terms (because after stripping away the moral aspects that's all that's left), it becomes clear that putting young women exclusively in charge of who would father the next generation was a terrible idea. We know that simply by watching them: what gets rewarded? Who gets a bevy of young beauties lining up to hop into his bed... the "gangsta' rapper" or the chemical engineer? The dope slinger or the accountant? We all know the answer. When it comes to winning the prize - sexual access to large numbers of attractive young women - it's not the guys pulling the cart. (Again, it's much better if nobody has sexual access to multiple partners... patriarchal monogamy is by far the best method of maximizing everyone's stake in creating a better society, but that social compact cannot stand in the absence of a common moral code that prohibits a sexual free-for-all.)

So what is our intrepid chemical engineer or accountant to do? If the reward is measured in the number of women he gets, the youth and beauty of those women, and the degree to which he has exclusive sexual access to them, he made a very poor decision by expending all that effort to become a good cart-puller. Number of women? He will be expected to be faithful to one (if that). The youth and beauty of that woman? He gets her only after her youth and beauty have begun to fade in earnest. Exclusive sexual access? He doesn't even get that, because she's already given that away countless times, and we have decreed that even husbands do not have any rights... she may (and almost certainly will) deny him at will, and he will be shamed for even asserting the existence of such a right. (For centuries the idea of fully reciprocal sexual obligations within marriage was known as "conjugal debt" or "marital debt," and was codified in canon law and influenced civil law both in Europe and the New World. That obligation was explicitly rescinded in the 20th Century.)

As I and many others have noted before, feminism has always been about allowing women to tear up their half the social compact while expecting men to hold up their end. The social compact was very efficient at producing cart-pullers (which benefited everybody), but now that feminism has succeeded in changing the incentives, we're seeing a lot more men refusing to put their necks into the yoke in favor of other pursuits. The men who can become Chads and Tyrones are doing so in record numbers, with many of the remainder being content to "ride the cart" themselves. There are still men who, for various reasons, are choosing to become cart-pullers, but each year there are fewer and fewer of them, and as a group they are aging out of their cart-pulling years and are not being replaced at the other end of the pipeline. Much of the movement of the cart even now is just the momentum from an earlier time when the incentives were less skewed.

I like the analogy about the "finish line." There are standard ribbon colors for races: the first place ribbon is blue, the second place ribbon is red, etc. If ten guys run a race, each one will get a ribbon, but we don't consider the guy who finished in tenth place as being "the tenth guy who won" as he receives his gray tenth place ribbon. We certainly don't consider him to be the guy who really won because his "victory" eclipsed those of the faster runners. Yet our gynocentric society has no problem telling the chemical engineer or the accountant who shuffles down the aisle with a post-wall woman with a couple of brats that he "won in the end."

Repeal the 19th

Title	Feminists in Spain are demanding universal basic income
Author	Darkmaster85845
Upvotes	52
Comments	58
Date	December 16, 2019 7:29 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/ebbz83/feminists_in_spain_are_demanding_universal_basic/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW/feminists-in-spain-are-demanding-universal-basic.382905 https://theredarchive.com/post/382905

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