Evolutionary biology convincingly explains how physical and mental traits get selected in species. Sexual dichotomy, male dominance, female hypergamy... everything.
The experiences you have are neurotransmitters and neurons responding to chemicals your glands release into your bloodstream... that's it.
Every experience of love, despair, jealousy, pride... whatever. That's you having a conversation with yourself. There's no magical component... no spiritual mechanism... no transcendent reality. It's just blood music...
Many of you will object to this conclusion and proclaim your heartfelt and concrete spirituality, and how real it is in your life.
There is exactly zero evidence to support your conclusion, and mountains of evidence supporting a scientific explanation for all of it.
Is a spiritual or magical component possible in this life? Of course... (Although there's a strong argument that anything perceived as spiritual is simply undiscovered science) But there is no compelling reason to believe anything on insufficient evidence.
William of Occam:
What's more likely?
- An all knowing creator is behind everything and we can occasionally tap into this magical reality behind the curtain?
or
- These spiritual experiences were selected as having some advantage by evolution.
As men you experience "true love" because that mechanism has benefits which made your ancestors more successful breeders... same thing with female hypergamy.
Back to the Matrix... spoon boy is correct.
"Do not try and bend the spoon, that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth...there is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself."
Remember that feeling of intimacy and love with a woman? Remember how shocking it was to watch her betray that experience for some superficial nonsense?
It was shocking to you but not to her... because she never experienced what you did. You inherited that physical and mental ability to have that intimate experience because it made your ancestors more successful breeders than other men with less of that ability... nothing more.
[+][deleted] [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
There's an interesting book called The Illusion of God's Presence: The Biological Origins of Spiritual Longing by John C. Wathey you might enjoy reading on this topic.
[–]TVTestPattern 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]s0ma_ 1 point2 points3 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
-- Well, if that's what your brain chemicals make you FEEEEEL is "correct" then it must be true, right?
Besides, as post-modern philosophy notes, there is no right or wrong, there is no such thing as objective reality... it's all just an illusion.
[–]s0ma_ 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Actually I'm inclined to think that the real "public reply" to James Damore...
Was the coordination of 'sensational' events that served to quickly & ENTIRELY "wipe" him off the front page -- and more importantly get the issues around him, his firing from Google, and his "memo" OUT of the "news" and thus out of most people's minds.
-- What events? Everything from the "counter-protest/riot" in Charlottesville, to all the statue vandalism/removal demands, etc.
-- Now I am not saying that those events were all specifically planned or organized for that purpose alone (certainly not that SOLE purpose)... but it is definitely possible (I think even probable) that groups & events (and behind the scenes FUNDING for them) were "stepped up" in scale, and possibly the events moved forward in terms of timing, in order to (unwittingly on the part of the end "useful idiot" actors) assist Google with getting their "PR Crisis" taken care of: driven from the news & people's minds.
Not convinced? Look how QUICKLY all of the high-tech CEO's & founders, etc -- and SPECIFICALLY THEM -- jumped on the opportunity to make statements around Charlottesville, statues, race, the alt-right, etc. Very much a "Look... OVER THERE!" thing.
And if that sounds like "wacky conspiracy theory" -- you have to remember that pretty much ALL of the major "tech & media mega-corps" -- whether Amazon or Apple, Fakebook and Google, even Uber et al -- well their "practices/policies/politics" are very similar, so whatever "issue/crisis" hits ONE of them is sort of an inherent threat to ALL of them.
-- Also remember that Google wasn't the FIRST to be "hit" -- the Damore thing came AFTER the whole Uber/Kalanick thing, (and other similar lower intensity "issues") -- basically the proverbial "snowball" around this part of "the narrative" was growing larger and getting OUT of the control and potentially really BACKFIRING on them in a major way... hence it needed to be "headed off" before the NEXT aspect of it hit.
-- And the way to do that is to get People to DIVERT their attention/outrage onto something else...
-- In light of that, well the corporate/philanthropic-foundation funding of the various "activist" groups takes on an entirely different "flavor" doesn't it?
[–]s0ma_ 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[+][deleted] [recovered] (17 children) | Copy Link
What's really cool about the whole atheist/naturalist belief system of course is that...
If TRULY (and FULLY) "accepted" -- well, it entirely eliminates any and all concepts of ethics or morals -- meaning you're completely free to FUCK other people over, CHEAT them, STEAL from them, KILL them or indeed TORTURE them so that they screech in agony...
...and you're free to do so based on whatever criteria you select -- race, height, sex, gender, age, eye color, clothing... whatever -- even just "randomly & arbitrarily" if you want...
...yet feel ZERO guilt* whatsoever during or after the act.
Because after all, the whole "pain & agony" thing... well it's JUST neurotransmitters and neurons responding to chemicals in glands that are released into the bloodstream... that's it.
So, all you need to be concerned about is being CAUGHT by other mobile chemical & flesh carbon-based-units -- and even then -- well it really shouldn't matter (LOL) whether they catch you or not, or if/when they do, what they in turn decide to do with you... 'cause it (you) are again... JUST a collection of chemicals.
* And of course if you DO "feel" any "guilt" -- well that too is just "chemicals" and so readily dismissed.
[+][deleted] [recovered] (16 children) | Copy Link
Everytime you say something insane, you top yourself.
In what fantasy world does religion, somehow prevent rape, murder, torture, cheating, and stealing?
In fact, show me the religious texts of the three major religions on Earth that isn't filled with every bit of that. Can't think of any instances of mass murder, genocide, slavery, torture and everything else in any of those books.
Morals and ethics are created by man. Made up supernatural deities don't play into that at all. Anything some book has in it (that it doesn't follow at all) was made by man, so any atheist or secular group can make up just as many morals and ethics for culture and society as well.
Atheists don't believe in the existence of a God. No where in that does it say, "and therefore you can just rape, murder, kill, or whatever, because we can just do what we want with absolutely nothing stopping us".
That would be the religious that feel that way, they have spiritual justification for their particular brands of hell on Earth. "But God said stoning women to death, enslaving captured villages, outright murder of any non-virgins in the town is righteous" as the justification for their crimes.
[+][deleted] [recovered] (15 children) | Copy Link
It doesn't have to "say" it anywhere...
Because... if everyone and everything is JUST and ONLY a "bunch of chemicals"... then logically there is no such thing as an "immoral" or "unethical act -- or at most "morality" is simply a subjective phenom (and therefore arbitrary and subject to change).
This is not some "insane" thing that only *I* have stated; it's a long standing understood thing relative to "naturalistic/atheistic" philosophy... notes on that go all the way back to Ancient Greeks.
It's just that you modern "trendy" (edgy and kewl*) "atheist+++" types are privileged to have been born into a society that already HAD a system of morals & ethics (which granted are being rapidly undermined, yet the core still exists, or at least has so far), AND in addition to that you (and those you follow, cf Dawkins et al) are both very SHALLOW in your comprehension of the implications of your worldview; AND you are largely IGNORANT of the whole prior history of philosophical thought & writing on the matter.
* Of course just like everyone else you know -- you are all emphatically not conforming to "peer pressure" -- ironic that.
[+][deleted] [recovered] (13 children) | Copy Link
You're right, there isn't.
That's just another appeal to authority. The ancient greeks buggered children, you into that?
Perhaps. Perhaps not. One of my degrees is in ancient greek philosophy, who knows my limitations?
Look at the story of the good samaritan. Christ discovers a man that had these moral ethical things, who wasn't (obviously) a Christian or following his teachings, yet this man existed.
Chemicals or not, almost all humans have the same issues and beliefs. Mostly self-preservation. Most of the ten commandments are that. Don't steal my wife, don't steal my crap, don't kill me and I won't kill you....
You can generalize from the self, which most religions are anyway. Under the do-no-harm-this-may-benefit-me-one-day-so-its-worth-doing idea.
If I help you out and are charitable, you might help me out one day when I need it. If I don't steal your stuff, maybe you won't feel the urge to steal mine.
Secular, religious, it's no different. Whether it's based on some magic constitution, magic stone tablets, magic middle eastern guy trampolining into heaven, it doesn't matter. It's an agreed upon social contract.
The source has no requirement. They're all arguments from authority. Secular is superior to religious though, because if all you have is a threat of hell compared to prison on Earth, you'd probably be more concerned with Earthly punishments that supernatural ones.
Who cares anyway? As long as we all agree not to do fucked up things to one another, it doesn't matter. The problem for me with religion, is that by definition religion doesn't change, and religion is not always right. Unfortunately when a committee put certain religious books together everyone had their own shitty input and issues, so you get a lot of dross and flotsam in the books that don't make a lot of logical sense, and certainly not scientific sense. Good ideas are great, but with religion you have to take the horrific with the good, whereas secular social contracts can be modified as the understanding of the world changes.
[+][deleted] [recovered] (12 children) | Copy Link
You missed the "if" at the beginning there.
--
And??? The opposite (your position) is simply a denial that there IS any "authority."
--
As I noted... thoroughly "indoctrinated" and with a very (very) shallow (mis)understanding of history.
--
And where did we ever "agree" to this? Besides, as you noted:
Meaning in essence: arbitrarily and at a "whim" (by whatever "authority" is in charge, at any given moment... even if it just be a local "mob").
-- Tell me, how's that working out for you so far?
[+][deleted] [recovered] (11 children) | Copy Link
It's not a denial of authority, it's a denial of supernatural authority. All authority is based in reality. Secular. I mean, we can go to only supernatural authority, in which case all your morals will evaporate since hell doesn't exist and will stop virtually no one.
The only real authority is what's on Earth, as in, we hire bullies in blue with guns to maintain the social contract.
You came out of the womb an atheist. You had to be "indoctrinated" to believe in a supernatural illusion. No one is indoctrinated in non-belief. You start that way. It takes time and energy to warp a brain to believe in the ridiculous.
Pretty good. We can use most of our constitutional rights in the U.S. most of the time. That's why the U.S. by and large is a nice place to live, compared to a great many of the places on the planet that suck ass and don't have secular freedoms. I don't particular fear the police. If I had a real crime happen to me I'm guessing they'd try to investigate it (not that I'd ever call the cops for almost any thing).
Secular discussions on what we consider moral or not is a good idea. Getting rid of slavery, that the bible was all into, was probably a good thing. Not stoning women to death for minor things, was probably a good thing. But then it does keep wanting the mutilation of children, so that's not so good.
The nice things about changes, is that you see how incredibly stupid most religious stuff is. Slavery. Genocide. Gleeful murder in the name of a sky fairy. Overall hatred.
Those are things that are good to get rid of, but since it's a 'religion', you can't get rid of stuff, because otherwise the religious freak out. They'll hold onto their disgusting horrors in the name of the sky father because that'll cause a crisis of belief.
[+][deleted] [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link
What "reality" is that? The one where all your thoughts and feelings are just chemicals reacting with one another?
--
As I said... you INHERITED a system based on a core that is NOT your own worldview.
And as for that "pretty good"; well better hold on tight... because you're in store for a "fun" ride.
Oy vey... you really (REALLY) have been sold a shallow & revisitionist bullshit-laden version of history.
[+][deleted] [recovered] (9 children) | Copy Link
Meaning non-supernatural nonsense.
And it's based on people coming together and agreeing what's acceptable behavior or not. And in the U.S., this is done by representational vote. We mutually agree, that murdering each other is not in our best interests. Our chemicals make us all feel that way, so we all create laws to do it.
This is exactly the same as what religions do, they just begin it with, "God was up on this mountains and burning shrub said...."
Yep, I wasn't involved in the initial formation of the country, that's true. And I would change a few things if I was in charge, but it's "good enough" for now. It could be better. There's still a few places to tweak improvement, mostly involving lining up politicians and hanging them from the courthouse steps.
I'm not in store for any ride. I don't know what you people think is going to happen, but the answers include "nothing", and "not going to happen".
[+][deleted] [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link
You haven't been paying attention to things lately have you?
[+][deleted] [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link
There's nothing to pay attention to. I'm responding to you, and you alone. You brought up chemicals. Not me.
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