Taxation is Theft? Really?

MGTOW-Philosopher · 2018-02-08T16:54:33+00:00

Barb is wrong. Technically speaking taxation is theft, at least that which is the income tax, and social security. Are you aware that before 1913 there was "NO" income tax? No, you did not know that eh. The tax we pay from our income now pays for no social programs, no anything that benefits citizens. It all goes to pay the interest on the National debt, which is up to around 22 trillion now. That's right. We pay close to a trillion bucks a year in taxes from our income, and it goes toward nothing except paying the interest on the funny money we borrow from the Federal Reserve, which is in no way "FEDERAL," meaning governmental.

You should educate yourself on this more. The country ran just fine before an income tax by taxing capital gains, collecting tariffs, and other methods that did not steal peoples wealth. And yes, it is theft. Do more research. Please. Take care.

ZealousMathematician · 2018-02-08T16:15:57+00:00

Well taxation for social programs that increase the beaters of such Silvia’s programs and hence slash my wealth even more is theft. I’d rather I lose a dollar a year than lose more incrementally each year simply because another thought it okay to take my wealth via the govt.

migmxke · 2018-02-08T18:14:55+00:00

If I don't have kids to educate in public, why should I be taxed for others' education? If I am always healthy (like I am) why should I be taxed for others' healthcare? I already pay VAT for goods and services. Also, in an utopian society, army and police, are non-existent so I should not give a penny there either. I don't want to support killing people in other lands whom I don't know. I also don't want to support neither Israel nor Saudi nor any other failed state. I provide for my own security. Basically, I cannot really find ANY SINGLE REASON to justify ANY taxes. Leaving the plantation is fine, because there no more tax to pay, anyway. I disagree with Barbarossa. TAXATION = pure THEFT, and IRS=terrorists and bullies, what's why Crypto will thrive. Hey NSA, TSA and IRS bullies. I hope you read this. Try finding all the hidden wealth in XMR/Monero Pivx and Zcash. Or hack my non-written 'brain wallet' Lol. You can do it. Keep being a pawn, dog and puppet in the blue pilled system. And just go hunting for us little people, and IGNORE all the whales who evade taxes offshore, in Cayman islands or some other tax-free haven. The whales and your puppet-masters might give you some tip or breadcumb !

2018-02-08T22:13:28+00:00

As long as taxes are taken from you under the threat of violence (prison), it's theft.

If taxation was voluntary, it would be an entirely different matter.

The excuse is that not enough people would pay if it were voluntary.

I don't believe that myself. I do think people would require greater accountability.

maggot_brain79 · 2018-02-08T17:58:49+00:00

I follow the taxation is theft logic only so long as the money I pay into taxes is serving to provide for other people's dumb fucking mistakes. I'm more than happy to finance infrastructure, education and healthcare with my taxes. I'd rather not finance the stupid fucking choices of single mothers, and I'd also rather not finance the government surveillance programs or their multi-billion dollar campaigns to go fuck up brown people in some desert shithole to serve Israel's needs. Social Security is also bullshit. All of that money will be dried up by the time I reach retirement age.

Technically though, theft is sort of defined as taking something that doesn't belong to you either through subterfuge or force. Well, what happens if you don't pay taxes? The IRS audits you, and then the police knock on your door and you're essentially held at gunpoint and threat of prison to pay up. I'd call that theft.

mgtowfish · 2018-02-08T18:44:37+00:00

I didn't watch the video but taxation is sort of a form of theft. It depends. What are the taxes being used for?

If your tax dollars are being used for causes that benefit society such as free education (to clarify, american education is schooling. Not actual education. Liberal arts should not be majors either), public transportation, excellent healthcare, the cure for cancer/HIV/Ebola, defensive military spending... than that is the cost of living in such a great society. However if your tax dollars are being used to bail out single mom's, fight random countries 3000 miles away, and prop up corrupt banksters and Israel well that form of taxation is stealing.

There is simply no reason why any country should have an income tax rate higher than 30% and THERE is absolutely zero reason why there should be any form of property tax. My property is mine. It's not the local school district's.

ilovecorntoomuch · 2018-02-09T03:07:50+00:00

This isn't /r/libertarian

GynocentricErgoMGTOW · 2018-02-09T02:24:47+00:00

Taxation exists to enforce and protect the social contract between the state and its citizens.
Your mere presence on sovereign soil is consent to being taxed. If you don't want to pay taxes, you are more than welcome to sell all your assets in the country (if you can) and leave. A lot of people on the right and some of the left like to say that illegal aliens don't pay taxes and for that reason they should be kicked out of the country (IMO an illegal alien by being an illegal alien is enough reason to kick them out), following this logic, anyone, whether they are a permanent resident, naturalized citizen, or citizen by birth, should be kicked out of the country for not paying their taxes.
If you don't like the rate at which you are being taxed, be more politically active.

I don't see the logic of imprisoning a person that's not paying their taxes, since their imprisonment adds to government expenditure (on top of the loss of revenue from a non-paying citizen), and makes the person less capable of earning a living as an ex-convict.
Potential arguments:
Imprisonment as a deterrant? Sure.
Booting out a non-paying citizen instead of making them spend a stint behind bars, which changes their mind about whether to pay taxes or not? Sure.

Every 4 years you could have a referendum asking: "Are taxes:"

Just right (cancels a Too high and a Too low vote).
Too high.
Too low.

and provide documentation that outlines what a reduction/increase of taxes by ~1% would result in.
Just as congress can vote to give themselves a pay raise, citizens should be able to vote on whether to give themselves tax relief or increase (LOL).
As usual, your elected officials would decide on how to spend the money, and citizens would vote in the candidates that more closely resemble their views.

The interim 4 years will allow citizens to ponder on how the current rate of taxation is affecting their lives and vote accordingly in the next referendum.

IMO the bare minimum that should be included in the social contract between the state and its citizens is:

the state protect its citizens from enemies, foreign and domestic, with a professional military and law enforcement agency.
the state carries out the duties of the executive/judicial/legislative branches.
citizens provide funding for the above points and comprise of the pool from which the government hires people from.

I agree with some of the ideas of libertarians, but some of them remind me of feminists' claim of "not needing men".
From migmxke: "I provide for my own security."
You provide for your personal security, but you are not a one man army capable of defending against a foreign army. Get rid of (in this case defund) your national army and any decent foreign army will shock and awe the local populace to submission. Say goodbye to the sandbox/echochamber that the military you got rid of allowed you to have/enjoy.

A secondary, but nonetheless very important role of a military, is how the US Navy allows for the relatively free flow of trade that would otherwise be distrupted by government (privateer)/non-government funded pirates. If countries can't/won't trade their resources, then war won't be too far away (go back to my main reason for having a military).

Is taxation theft? No.
Do I think the recent US tax reform went far enough? No, but it's better than what it replaced.
Is taxation extortion? If, in 2020, President Sanders/Biden decided to jack up taxes through an executive order, then it absolutely is extortion. Otherwise taxation is not extortion.
Do I think it's the government's responsibility to fund: education, social programs, roads, infrastructure, fire department, safety nets (like homeless shelters)? This is a harder question to answer.
Are the benefits provided by the government impractical and/or difficult for private companies to provide (Interstate Highway System, the internet at its infancy)? Then I would favor it.
Are the benefits provided by the government to help those who find themselves in less than ideal conditions as a result of poor choices and/or luck? No, I would be against this. In this case I follow a modified version of Ben Shapiro's view on safety nets, which is to seek help from: family and then charitable organizations (Shapiro's third and final choice of last resort is the government).

Title	Taxation is Theft? Really?
Author	csehszlovakze
Upvotes	0
Comments	21
Date	February 8, 2018 4:03 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/7w5sxr/taxation_is_theft_really/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW/taxation-is-theft-really.596209 https://theredarchive.com/post/596209

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