Sorry, venting.

2014-02-26T03:35:49+00:00

Edit: nobody thinks rape is okay except the Huffington Post, which headlines female rape stories as "sexual relationship with a 14-year-old student".

rightsbot · 2014-02-26T03:34:22+00:00

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ktbug1987 · 2014-02-26T04:10:48+00:00

EDIT: I want to clarify that I agree that rape culture is not everywhere, or supported by the whole of the West. What the following rant was meant to convey is that rape culture exists in some places or situations. My own examples are rape culture existing which demonizes female rape victims, but that's because I am a girl. Obviously there are situations (see OP's comment about the HuffPost trivializing the rape of a 14 year old student) where a rape culture persists against male victims. My argument is not that OP is entirely wrong, rather that he is making a blanket statement which is problematic for working in those microcosms of society (e.g., Steubenville, as mentioned by /u/armadillo_armageddon below) where something that could easily be called "rape culture" exists. As I mention less-eloquently below, we shouldn't generalize rape culture as persisting in entire societies (or even entire communities). But we should recognize that there are places where there is a culture that is supportive of rape or dismissive of victims, and as people who want to support the rights of both genders (I think that's what you guys are?), we should work to change those cultures, be they anti-male victim, anti-female victim, or anti-trans victim, or anti-any victim. Basically, anything that is anti-victim is a problem.

My original post is intact below:

DISCLAIMER: liberal female posting, but who happens to feel that you guys often have lots of good things to talk about.

Follow up: This (at least this blatantly definite) attitude is not one of them IMHO.

What follows is a rant of my own, so please bear with me. I hope you can see that I feel egalitarian in my views. Male and female victims of rape are equally shafted (hopefully you aren't terribly offended by this use of the word).

Let me start by clarifying:

Yes, I believe men can be victims of rape. Yes, in some ways, this is worse for them than it is for women, because people don't believe them.

What I disagree with is: "rape culture" exists. It exists ways in which women are victims and also in ways where men are victims too, I just don't have any personal examples of this. It may be limited to smaller subcultures, but it is definitely there. Personal disclosure time. I am not creating a new account because I want you guys to see that I occasionally comment here in agreement with you, if you care to go digging.

I was the victim of sexual assault in high school. Only one guy actively participated in the assault but there were several witnesses who contributed verbally. It was because they thought I dressed like too "much of a lesbian" and a "pretty girl like me" needed to "learn how to take a dick." So... I told an adult I thought I could trust, who told me that I did dress a little too sporty, and maybe I should consider being more feminine. I didn't report it to anyone, because this adult made it clear that nothing would happen anyway. The guy was a prominent member of the small town, and his family name was big--had guys on the force, in the courthouse, etc. This is a case of rape culture persisting in a small town.

Fast forward to college. I was at a party, playing some stupid drinking game. Only at the time I was on meds so I couldn't drink. My buddy thought it would be a fair game if I drank milk. Well, that will make you pretty sick too. So here I am at this party, puking my guts because I drank way too much fucking milk, and two guys arrive. It's a nerd party, so we don't know what these frattastic dudes are doing there, but it's summer and no one is around campus so we figure they just want the free beer. Well, immediately they find me (actively sick). The two guys (best friends) act all chivalrous and take me to the back bedroom. I'm protesting cuz I have a bad feeling about the whole thing but the music is blaring and what can you do? They get me back there, and lock the door. Dude-brah makes a drink and I watch him put a pill in it. He says, "a little lighter drink with some juice mixed in will settle your stomach". I'm all, no thanks, I haven't been drinking, plus you put something in that. And he is all "Sure you haven't, little princess. It'll make you feel better, I promise." Now it's becoming obvious what is going on because friend of dude brah is unpacking condoms. At that moment my good friend realized those dudes were there (their frat had a rep for selling the roofies on campus), and bangs on the door saying he knows I am in there, and he doesn't care if he has to call the cops on his own party, he will. They let me out. The good news is, I wasn't raped; the bad news is, I know they were going to, but I didn't feel like I could really do anything about it. Say, "I really think these guys had the intent to rape me?".... 4 years later, I share this story with a friend who is about to graduate. It turns out she had been she thinks but can't remember raped by the same two guys and a mutual friend was actually raped by two different guys in the frat. Both got rape tests, one tested positive for a roofie. In neither case was semen present but in one there was obvious vaginal tearing. Both pressed charges through the uni. Both times, there was evidence, and both times the guys got off super easy. What I did do was confront the guys when I was feeling well the next day. Both of them all but admitted planning to do it, and said if I was drunk it wouldn't have mattered. Dude-brah's friends all agreed with them and (I was at the frat at the time) pointed to the checks on the wall saying, "Motto says, if she does it in the dark, you still get a mark"...apparently status came from how many "checks" of girls you had, no matter how you got them. I think this sort of culture at least supports a rape mindset, even if it doesn't actively say, "It's okay to rape."

Obviously this is NOT GENERALIZABLE TO ALL MEN or TO SOCIETY AS A WHOLE. But please don't think that there aren't some niches of society where your claim of rape isn't easily dismissed because you are a chick, or you are even told you deserve it.

THAT IN NO WAY MAKES ANYTHING MEN WHO ARE RAPED EXPERIENCED EASIER. Obviously, it hurts men when people think they can't be victims because of physiology---"oh, you were hard? you must have wanted it." Because male victims have less of an infrastructure to deal with rape, they are in a deeper shit hole. That's fair. I get that r/mensrights. What you don't get to say is that there are not women victims who get shafted because rape culture doesn't exist. Well, obviously you can say that; it's a free country. I just hope that the up and down-voters filter good from bad content, and recognize that this position is at the very least, a bit extremist.

What this boils down to in my opinion is not necessarily some patriarchal culture thing, or some feminist culture thing, or some other thing. It boils down to a respect for everyone's autonomy. Yeah, there are some weird backwards frats that are stuck in the 20s. There are some people who aren't empathetic to male victims (hell, maybe way more people than there are backwards frat boys). But if we teach everyone that everyone's body is theirs to do with as they please, and nothing that happens to it (physiological response, a way of dress) makes nonconsensual intercourse okay, and admit we have a societal problem with how we approach sex, maybe something can change....

The thing about "rape culture" is that there are people who don't understand what consent is (as is the case when someone says, "Well, he was hard; he must have wanted it) and there are also people who think that "asking for it" is a thing. Both exist. Both are real phenomena. Both support a "rape culture" -- a culture where rape can happen and be without much consequence, leading perpetrators to do it again, and where rape victims are shamed and hurt by even coming out about their rape experience.

//end rant.

Hope you guys can get something out of all this, and we can continue to have meaningful discussions.

2014-02-26T04:10:30+00:00

Why would it be wrong to ask about a common motive? The judge knows clothing is often a factor, not that it gets you off the hook but still...You should know the motive.

Title	Sorry, venting.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	0
Comments	10
Date	February 26, 2014 3:33 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1yygv8/sorry_venting/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/sorry-venting.1003390 https://theredarchive.com/post/1003390

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