Just a thought but I think men in the manosphere give women some conflicting messages regarding their motives in romantic relationships.

On the one hand women who are open about their desire for marriage and kids or “something serious” are often mocked by men as being “crazy” or “clingy” and there is a general trope that voicing such makes women “less desirable”.

On the other hand women who straight up don’t want those things are seen as a “defective”. Those who are childfree or who don’t particularly care or even desire marriage are also shamed by these men.

Now maybe it’s just different groups of men shaming women in either case but I definitely get this sense overall from the manosphere spaces.

I started thinking about this after seeing how much hate Chelsea Handler was getting from some prominent men after she made a video saying she was happy without children. It’s interesting because she has been a child free “advocate” for a while now and has always openly talked about her active decision to not have children.

The “viral-ness” of the situation made me realize how many men in these spaces actually hate on and shame women who do not have kids (and yes women do it too but this is specifically about the manopshere types). Just kind of odd to me because if a younger Chelsea was going on about how much she wanted to be married and have kids these same men would likely view her as “desperate” and “crazy”. Or they would say her standards are “too high” because no one wants to marry “insert sexist female archetype”.

Seems you can’t really win with these men.

With all that said I see more women embracing women’s choices to engage in marriage and motherhood or not vs men. Many more women were supporting Chelsea than men from what I saw at the same time women also celebrate and support women who do marry and have kids all the time.

Men especially the mansophere type, it seems at least to me, are more likely to shame women in either case. It’s as if they just don’t want to accept that women have their own motives and desires in life. Like they are only okay with it if a woman is in a situation she didn’t actively choose, ex: she is pressured by society to marry young and have kids because she has no prospects for being self sufficient OR she is a raging bitter single woman with cats and wine because no man “chose” her for marriage. They will typically celebrate or revel in the thought of a woman being in any situation where she had less agency overall. If a woman chooses to marry and have kids by actively pursuing that OR if she chooses to remain childfree and single because she actively rejects those types of relationships with men she is bad. Again at least that’s the sentiment I’m getting. Am I off base here?