(This is a response to a previous post, "Open or poly relationships from the superior position or inferior position", check /u/denver_luv3 to see the earlier Reddit discussion. The quoted section is this comment from Nash):

It is a simple fact that we are not all the same, and by defining some types… we can introduce some tools and immediately know that they are not for everyone, but that doesn’t make them invalid.

With that said… for me the “poly” community is a fucking mess. I live in CA and I am surrounded by these folks… and it’s an ugly shitshow. I watch guys “try” this all the time, and they are a fucking sad bunch, mostly.

Mostly… I see poly as being a one-sided thing, exactly as you describe above. Sometimes with the guy talking a girl into it, and the girl being a sad spectator to the guy fucking other girls. But mostly, as you describe above… the girls want an open pass, and the guys have no game… so it’s completely one sided, she retain resources, rides alternate cock, and he has been cornered by “honesty” and “being big” and isn’t allowed to complain… super cucked.

(I don’t think guys that genuinely like poly are “cucked.” I think most poly guys think they are “doing it wrong” as poly makes them super unhappy, but they don’t end it because they “want to be big about it,” and that’s retarded BS. There is something very far “LEFT” about poly as I see it.)

I’ll go PERSONAL: I assume most girls I am fucking are fucking other men (I fucked two different married girls in the last month, but “single” girls too). The 2nd Married Girl (Miss Smart) is an odd relationship, as she/I are semi regular now. She is very young, so I assume she is still fucking her husband. We’re basically in an open rel, of sorts… this is as close as I can get to poly/open. The husband does NOT know… this is a classic “affair.”

I like DON’T ASK DON’T TELL. I call that “being a grown up” as it’s the most realistic and time-tested way through the sexual jungle. I think most people cannot make it past basic JEALOUSY issues, and I think that is normal. I think jealousy is a healthy trait. It’s one thing to be fucking other people. And it is something completely different to be talking about it.

You are making a case for at least a few things here, and I think a rare subset of men would find them very useful. I think those men need to know they have a low tendency for jealous AND they need good game. Then…

I hear you using poly/open as a way of retaining “recurring lovers” (I like recurring non-monogamous lovers very much, it’s my preference). And I see you using poly/open as a way of introducing sex clubs. Both are nuanced/niche aims, and you are well articulated here.

For me… as soon as a girl starts talking about other men… she is fucking done. It’s principled, but more so, it’s “gut” level “hell no.” I realize that some part of my brain assumes she is fucking other guys, even if she claims to be monogamous… but it is out of bounds to be verbal about it. It’s rude, as I see it. I think talking about it is hurtful.

I am being something very close to inconsistent here, but that’s the way I am… and something like JEALOUSY is my primary reason why. I believe strongly that one/both partners will be incapable of pushing down jealousy, so making sex with other people verbal/explicit will invite psychological pain into a context that doesn’t require that kind of “honesty.”

If you want to fuck other girls… just do it, and STFU about it. But… as a tool for retaining long-term lovers… I concede the concept has merit.

I think the most basic, obvious, important distinction is that guys who know they can get laid have a very different experience from guys who don’t. I’m not saying a guy must go out on a random day or night and come back with a chick a few hours later (I can’t, of course), but a guy who knows he’s got options just has a way different experience and worldview. The options can come from game, ecosystem, doesn’t matter, he is just in a different world than a guy who doesn’t. (“Scarcity” versus “abundance” are often discussed in these contexts.) A guy is only as good as his options.

I’m not as big a fan of “poly” identification because most people who identify as poly are ugly. Seems to be true of women as well as men. But with an otherwise attractive chick you want to keep on rotation, who might not want to do randoms, saying “poly” and finding another couple or couples to date can work.

I don’t get too hungup on the particular terms “poly” or “open” because I just don’t care that much. If “poly” lets me keep her on rotation for a longer period of time as a FWB / lover, because she knows my love is too great for only a single person, just like hers, that’s fine with me (and that has happened). Good sex without obligation on my part? Okay, yeah, sure, whatever it takes, yeah, I’m poly. Pass the joint, will you?

Nash says,

for me the “poly” community is a fucking mess. I live in CA and I am surrounded by these folks… and it’s an ugly shitshow. I watch guys “try” this all the time, and they are a fucking sad bunch, mostly.

Can’t disagree. That’s the average and the median.

The average poly person is a fuckup and idiot. I’m happy to acknowledge that. The worst advocates for poly are poly people themselves.

To me, game, poly, open, motorcycles, online dating, paying for sex… these are all tools. I’m trying to describe the tools, how they work, how they work for me, how they could work for others, how they are (frequently) mishandled. What tools a guy uses depends on his goals. Most guys flail because they have no tools and have given zero thought to any of this. I don’t use all tools all the time. I’ve not paid for quite a while. That isn’t because I’m too good for it or found the Buddha or whatever. It’s because I’ve been busy with more conventional pursuits, so I’ve not needed or wanted it.

Tools can be combined in various ways, too. Having an incredibly hot girl in a semi-paid relationship who then goes to sex clubs can multiply the effect of both tools (I only recommend thinking about paid relationships for guys who are 35+ and have more income than time. Younger guys should be out working on their game and improving their value, not paying for it.).

Game guys have found a great tool. But I think about how some of the other tools fit into game, and how game fits into some of the other tools. It’s interesting to me that most guys in game don’t write much about the other tools. Most guys who like and write about paying for it, don’t write about game.

I also don’t ask and don’t tell. When the recent girl asked me how many partners I’ve had, I didn’t leap forward to say (if she’d pressed I would’ve said). But I didn’t ask her the same question and when I told her I never ask that question of women, I meant it.

I am being something very close to inconsistent here, but that’s the way I am.

If you’re inconsistent and know it, that’s okay. I’m a little more worried about people who are wildly inconsistent and don’t know, also known as the entire human population.

That Krauser post helped me write this post. When guys are talking past each other, it’s often good to go a couple levels deeper to try and figure out what is really going on. There may be some deeper synthesis beyond the surface.

Personally, I’m also less moved by pure novelty than some guys are. Don’t get me wrong, I like novelty, but I don’t automatically lose interest in a chick after nailing her a couple times. This obviously depends on personality and other factors too. I got overly excited about this girl because our personalities mesh well.

Right now, society is in flux. Legal marriage does not work for a very large number of people. No one knows what comes next. “Bitter divorce that screws up the kids” is a very common outcome. So are dead marriages that stumble onwards from inertia. So are couples who don’t like each but stay together “for the sake of the kids.” A lot of guys start in game, but game, pursued actively enough, becomes a path into seeing the matrix.