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J2501
[–]Acksiom4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link
I think it's a waste of time as far as this sub goes, because dating is reserved for the people we're already fucking.
Pre-relationship, I'm not applying for a slot on her list of suitors; she's applying to be one of the 5 most important people in my life:
1) Me, 2) my best male friend, 3) my best female friend, 4) my therapist, 5) my lover.
I don't spend money or time or attention on people applying for one of those slots; they're full already. They spend time and money and attention trying to rise high enough by my standards to be worthy of being that close to me.
If some girl wants me to move someone out of one and her in, she'd better be ready to pre-demonstrate her ability and commitment to bringing more and better quality to my life than whoever she thinks she can replace.
"But I don't have a lover yet!"
Then just act as though you do, because it's still one of the 5 most important slots for other people in your life, and you shouldn't piss that away paying other people to apply for it.
I know you're trying to help, and I respect and appreciate that, but. . .dating is dead, bro. It doesn't serve the reproductive sorting purposes it used to anymore, because technology, from the Pill forward to Tinder today, has superseded dating's ability to match people up and make families.
Dating is for people you're already having sex with, straight-up CH.
[–]2Occams_Shiv0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
You don't pay your therapist?
[–]Acksiom0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
Of course I do. The fact that I compensate him financially for what he does for me doesn't invalidate anything I've written.
That being said, I'm moving to WA this month and he told me a couple of sessions ago that he wants to hang out with me personally rather than professionally whenever I come back down to CA for social and business reasons, presumably because I'm such a smart, funny, cool guy.
[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Or he is gay and thinks you're cute.
[–]Acksiom0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Nah, I'm cute regardless of what he thinks.
Seriously, though; I do get that sometimes, but that's almost certainly not the case here. I grew up in the SF bay area enough to know I'm not getting that vibe off him, and he knows I don't even fuck women with other men around; gangbangs or multiples with other guys are beneath my standards.
[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
OK. I get hit on by men often, I'm told I have the bear thing going with all the body hair and a barrel chest. Some women like the way I'm built, some gay men do, some don't. I learned to read the women to see who is into how I look, saves time.
My shrink sucks. Female, not good with PTSD and other war veteran issues, and she works for the VA. The man I had before her was awesome, made lots of progress. I'm teaching this one who to deal with us crazy war vets. I'm getting nothing out of it and the shit is getting rough.
[–]Acksiom0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
I suggest finding another. Can you get a referral (or a better one if she's it) from the guy you had before? Or from somebody else? You're not getting paid to teach her how to do her job properly; she's getting paid to adjust to your needs.
[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I know, can't get a different one. The one I used to have was a civilian contractor, they dropped the contract in 2009 and gave me someone fresh out of family services.
[–]Acksiom0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Obviously I can't know your circumstances well enough to talk shit, but if I were in your situation, I'd be pushing for a new therapist because of the recent news of corruption and murder --
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/05/04/va-healthcare-delays-treatment-phoenix-cheyenne-deaths/8602117/
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/va-hospital-scandal/mccain-says-va-scandal-unacceptable-expects-it-get-lot-bigger-n101706
http://time.com/92440/va-secretary-shinseki-subpoena/
Sorry I can't do more but I'm fucking swamped moving to WA right now for my own health.
[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Thanks for the links. I've come to realize something. I will never fit in with society, its impossible because of my experience in life. I used to think I would be OK with a good woman, but I have learned there aren't any I would consider good. I understand I can only count on myself, and not to expect anyone to be there for me. I've felt alone my entire life except for seven years between 03 and 10, she turned out to be untrustworthy too.
I can spin plates, I can meet women and fuck them relatively easily, but its hollow to me. I want something I will never find, and its not like my mother either. I would have to be gay to find it, not happening.
Honestly, I don't care anymore. My life isn't bad, its simply boring, unfulfilling, and lonely. People suck, they are almost all substance abusers here, and few with the intellectual capacity to keep up. Its a very solitary existence, and my shrink isn't helping it. I don't get what I want from sex, and I don't get it from people. The most alive and fulfilled I have felt was during my deployments. Lifting doesn't help, building my cars doesn't either. I can distract myself for a while, but sitting at home, alone with my dogs, something is missing and I revert back to wishing I would simply not wake in the morning.
I've done, achieved, and endured so much already that nothing has meaning and no amount of fucking, building, or lifting will give it any. Most people disgust me, and the only pleasure I get anymore is manipulating them and messing with their minds.
[–]Acksiom1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
All I can say is the few things that's helped me deal with times like those --
From Grinder & Bandler, don't know which: Most people, when they get a grip on reality, hang onto it for dear life; when I get a grip on reality, I twist it. (OWWTE)
So I don't even try to fit with society anymore; I make society fit with me.
From myself, summarizing years of therapy on both sides of the clipboard: Remember, it's temporary; maybe it's the default and feels like forever, but it's ALL just chemicals in the brain, and we can change those chemicals through behavior.
Finally, I would, as a bullshit jackleg analysis, point to this:
they are almost all substance abusers here, and few with the intellectual capacity to keep up. Its a very solitary existence. . .most people disgust me, and the only pleasure I get anymore is manipulating them and messing with their minds.
Your environment sucks, get to somewhere better. If you're building cars, you've probably got the gumption and resources to relocate, or hell, GO TRAVELING MAN! A lot of the manosphere crowd have overcome bad states like yours by getting the hell out of wherever they are and seeing the world.
[–]vengefully_yours1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I've seen the world. Everywhere I have been in the US is like here, just with less snow and more idiots. I travel often, right now I'm in a bind because I lost my shop/home in a divorce last year, so I have to build a new one. I'm paying a mortgage and rent while my first wife is still getting a huge chunk of my income. I'm kinda stuck here right now.
I avoid society, but I am still human and need contact and interaction.
[–]Acksiom0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Hmm. Now that I think about it a little more, I have to thank you for the feedback; you gave me a good idea. After we schedule my last session I'm gonna surprise him by inviting him over to check out Portal on the flatscreen before I actually leave. That would also be a good opportunity to test the duck egg baconnaise I'm working on, too.
Thanks, man!
[–]Idrinkjdbythegallon0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Your right about dating being dead but your therapist shouldn't be #4
Why not?
[–]J2501[S] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
You're thinking in terms of middle-aged adults with well-established identities and lives. What about younger people who don't quite "know who they are" yet? Dating is often the way to figuring oneself out by contrasting with others through relating to them, and that is a process which often continues through college and even into early career establishment.
[–]Acksiom0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
You're thinking in terms of middle-aged adults with well-established identities and lives. Dating is often the way to figuring oneself out by contrasting with others through relating to them, and that is a process which often continues through college and even into early career establishment.
You're thinking in terms of middle-aged adults with well-established identities and lives.
Dating is often the way to figuring oneself out by contrasting with others through relating to them, and that is a process which often continues through college and even into early career establishment.
Except, of course, for how I'm not, because, again,
And, of course, for how
technology, from the Pill forward to Tinder today, has superseded dating's ability to match people up and make families,
such that there is now a huge range of other ways to 'figure oneself out by contrasting with others through relating to them' besides dating.
[rolleyes] Just let go of the fistful of rice inside the coconut, monkey-boy. It's a trap.
[–]J2501[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Wow, uh, OK, I think your dogmatic adherence to rhetoric that sounds like it came out of some kind of "Habits of Highly Effective People" book is kinda sad, and I hope some day you will free your mind from such oppressive belief systems and see the world as it truly is: infinite. And then you can be a free spirit instead of a biological machine living out a scripted drama.
[–]Acksiom1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
cool story bro
[–]re-rebuild0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
How do you propose to implement such a change?
[–]J2501[S] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I suppose it's just a matter of what parents decide to teach the next generation.
[–]2Occams_Shiv0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I think you would find this counter productive in practice. Paying goes hand in hand with choosing, deciding, leading. The person who asks pays because they are in charge. You should want to be in charge.
Hah. OK. I didn't realize you live in a place, or perhaps merely a state of mind, where dating and prostitution are one and the same. And I suppose that segments of society are like that where I'm from, but I wouldn't want anything to do with them. I would consider that kinda 'low rent', to use a particularly apt turn of phrase.
In the south, where antiquated notions of chivalry still yet persist, paying really just makes you the schmuck, as it is very common to pay for an expensive series of dates and not get laid. Dating is considered socialization at the expense of men, and eve though a lot of guys don't want to admit or talk about it, the hottest girls are teases, and guys get played by them all the time.
I mean, there are nasty skanks here too, but who cares? Anyone can just get a hooker, why dress it up as anything more with even the pretense of dating? The men of the upper class only date virgins or those women who are very reserved sexually. It's the exclusivity of the class.
There are some to whom 'game' entails how to buy a prostitute. I think of it more as getting Ms. Lily White Ice Queen to genuinely love you.
[–]1rporion0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
This has little to do with Game, but it can be a Redpill answer.
You can of course game prostitutes too and I would recommend it because it leads to a better service.
[–]J2501[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I don't find the idea of being a john even remotely satisfying. It's one step above animal behavior, and the realm of the novice: 'practice girls', sexual training wheels... As a mind matures, it demands more from a heterosexual relationship than a mere meat puppet... and I think it's sad that some men have been convinced that nothing more exists than nihilistic hedonism simply because they have excluded themselves from the realm of meaningful relationships... the honest woman who wants an LTR is a black swan you will never encounter if you deliberately set about to limit yourself to an island full of white swans (read: prostitutes).
[–]1rporion0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah...
Wait a few years and then get back to me.
[–]Aexorys 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It's a good idea but it is impossible. How do you plan on implementing such a drastic change to the dating scene?
[–]J2501[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Just by exposing people to the idea and allowing them to realize the sociocultural benefit of it. Things change over time. We used to ride in steam trains, now we ride in aeroplanes. That didn't happen over night. Someone had to sell the idea of an airplane to a bunch of people who helped build it because they thought it was a good idea worthy of development. And they had to defend that idea against a bunch of narrow-minded people who thought it could never happen.
[–]sproondeermaan0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Here's where you get it wrong: it's not a custom or a social convention that you can change. Humans are a sexually dimorphic species. We are not only physically different, but mentally as well. I cannot think of a single culture where it is common for the woman to ask men out. It's in our brains that women do the choosing based on what the men have to offer, in search of the best genes - aka. Briffault's Law.
Ultimately, your thinking is the equivalent to that of the feminists: 'let's redefine masculinity so we are equal.' and 'let's redefine dating so we are equal'. Even if everyone was equal, some people would end up more equal than others. Your mistake is that you seek equality of outcome but it would not work as we are different, even on a biological level. Even if you managed to get a sizable movement to support your idea, it would be going against all of human history up until 60 or so years ago, and it would not have any more impact than the screeches of the Tumblr harpies.
[–]J2501[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
It's actually an extremely small change to existing social norms, and I think resistance to the idea shows how stuck in a traditional American cultural mindstate most Americans are.
I don't think that typically American sexual fascist or capitalistically exploitative ideas about male/female relations are "hard wired" into our brains at all. I think they are reinforced by social norms with are consensually flexible. Just look at dating in Europe or India... The rules are a little bit different everywhere. Even gender is beginning to be thought of as a social construct, just look at the transexual movement.
I don't think your bigotry proves my ideas or theories wrong, I think your typical conservative macho American male pig-headedness says more about your own personality flaws than flaws in my reasoning or vision.
[–]sproondeermaan0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
That's cute, you think I'm American. That's the only mental image you could come up with for someone who disagrees with your ideas.
In fact, I come from a culture that's been consistently going in the shitter thanks to liberalism. Here, I will address your points:
'Dating', if such concept exists in a culture, follows the same pattern, even if there are 'bits' that are different . Men ask out, men pay for dates, men lead and women follow. It is the same in the US, Europe and my culture as well.
Gender is genetic. Look in your pants, that's what you got. Trans people are a minute part of the population. And their delusions were aided by the theories of John Money - a pedophile and a certified weirdo. His patient and the basis of the research that gender is a social construct killed himself because he could not bear it. Trans people have a suicide rate of 50%, how can you use them for an example of healthy change in societal norms?
Finally, my personality is fine, too empathetic even. But you are in a liberal loop of 'lets make everyone equal'. How about you give everyone equal opportunity, and judge them on their merit instead.
[–]J2501[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I have no desire to make everyone equal, nor do I believe that would even be possible. I believe in equal rights and opportunity, but I don't believe that trashy bimbos are the equivalent to an educated man with a career any more than I believe that 5 years olds can fly airplanes simply by virtue of citizenship.
But that doesn't mean I subscribe to a bunch of fascist victim-blaming Randroid crap either.
[–]semigod__0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
dating is for betas.
let her come to you. a bar, a hotel room, your apartment. it is not a date - you are not courting her. you let her take part in your life.
I don't think that kind of attitude really works for everyone or every situation.
[–]Villaintine0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Then you didn't play initial contacts well.
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[–]Acksiom4 points5 points6 points (18 children) | Copy Link
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[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours0 points1 point2 points (8 children) | Copy Link
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[–]Acksiom0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
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[–]Acksiom1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
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