~ archived since 2018 ~

I need some basic help with a shit test

MusicSports

May 26, 2017

3 upvotes

I met this girl a few days ago and got her number while playing pick up sports. Yesterday I called her to tell her I was playing today with some people but she didn't answer. I also asked a mutual friend of ours if she wanted to come out and play yesterday and she said maybe but she'd let me know. Today i texted the first girl I was into if she wanted to come out and play and she responded quickly saying yes, but to let me know if the mutual friend was going because they had plans but they got into a fight and she wasn't responding to her. This is where I got the gut feeling that she is trying to use me to figure out what the other girl is doing and doesn't really care what the other girl does. She just wants to see if she can control me. I fucked up and said I'd message the mutual friend but tried to save it and tell her to message her. She basically refused to message her again. I haven't messaged the mutual friend yet. I was thinking to just not message at all and if they show up tonight cool but if not whatever. Should I tell her that I am not going to message her because I don't want to get involved or just leave it where things are and see if they both show up since I already fucked up by saying I would message the mutual friend? Or am I overthinking?

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Post Information

Title	I need some basic help with a shit test
Author	MusicSports
Upvotes	3
Comments	39
Date	May 26, 2017 4:14 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/6dhx0u/i_need_some_basic_help_with_a_shit_test/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/i-need-some-basic-help-with-a-shit-test.43518 https://theredarchive.com/post/43518

Comments

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon12 points13 points14 points 9 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]MusicSports[S] 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

I've been used a lot by girls who have used me to talk about guys they are fucking or want to fuck or be with so I'm very jaded.

You stop being used by girls by refusing to do anything for them.

No money, no loans, no meals, no food. That's easy.

No sympathy, no special attention, no listening to her whine, and no talking about other guys. This is harder, but it's not THAT hard.

Refusing to be beta = attractive. Just say "I will not talk about other men with you". Women respect this. And "I am not a free counselling service for you". And so on.

Point is this: supplicating/paying in any form is UNATTRACTIVE. Letting a girl use you is UNATTRACTIVE. You probably let girls do this because you thought you were "getting closer". Reality is you were getting used, and listening to her talk about men/life/whining is NOT a necessary part of seduction or attraction. Quite the opposite.

Maintain boundaries = more attraction.

If she shows up at soccer tonight I'll ask her out because I've had 0% success with asking a girl out over text.

If you know her in person, you should do it in person.

thank you for your response though I really appreciate it.

it's a pleasure

I'll be more direct with intentions and I'll stop overthinking.

Right.

Fundamentally though, your problem is one of attraction and opportunity rather than technique. You probably know this. You need opportunities to meet women, and to be attractive to them.

Gradually you'll figure out how to not show any sort of emotional need, how to fearlessly express your sexuality (basically eye contact, push/pull and escalation), and how to maintain boundaries (ie avoid her walking all over you and being her free counselling service). Part of this is being happy to rapport-break and be mildly rude and challenging. "What the fuck girl, I just met you and already you're whining about your ex".

The logistics and asking her out and stuff like that is easy with the rest of it in place. The cheap and easy way is "We should hang out sometime" or "We should go out for drinks". Go from there depending on her response. Or "Are you free for drinks on Friday?".

Def stop overthinking. And stop going after JUST ONE GIRL. Aim to be flirty and fun and sexual with ALL the girls. This makes everything so much easier.

[–]MusicSports[S] 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for such a detailed response again. I really appreciate it.

Fundamentally though, your problem is one of attraction and opportunity rather than technique. You probably know this. You need opportunities to meet women, and to be attractive to them.

This stuck out to me the most from your response. I have no idea how to do this. Literally no idea. I'm in college and even though I'm constantly around women, none are attracted to me. I don't know what it means to be attractive because I've never done it. The thing is I'll know exactly when a girl is attracted to a guy. It's obvious to me based on how they react to them. I can see guys literally just saying whatever but there's this look on girls' faces when I see an attractive guy just doing his thing. This lead me to overthinking because I figured I'd never get this reaction naturally so I have to overthink to get it. Which ends up just pissing me off and making me hate myself.

The Logistics and asking her out and stuff like that is easy with the rest of it in place.

I realized that because I've asked the "We should hang out some time" and "we should do this" questions countless times with 0% success. Girls are either always busy, don't have time, and don't say any other day or time works. You'd think every girl I have ever asked out is working 150 hour weeks with 0 down time in between to eat or sleep with strictly planned schedules for everything. It shouldn't be this hard to make plans and I've come to the conclusion that I just don't have things in place that allow me to be attractive. Does that sound like I'm on the right path? Please let me know I am trying to become a better person.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

I have no idea how to do this. Literally no idea. I'm in college and even though I'm constantly around women, none are attracted to me. I don't know what it means to be attractive because I've never done it.

Sure, can really understand that. We've all been there. As men we START there. Without being attractive. And we listen to women, and they turn us beta. You don't know what it feels like, looks like, or how women respond to it.

. I can see guys literally just saying whatever but there's this look on girls' faces when I see an attractive guy just doing his thing. This lead me to overthinking because I figured I'd never get this reaction naturally so I have to overthink to get it. Which ends up just pissing me off and making me hate myself.

He's not overthinking though. He's just going and talking to her.

I realized that because I've asked the "We should hang out some time" and "we should do this" questions countless times with 0% success.

Often (not always) when a girl is attracted she'll make hanging out easy. Of course she would - why wouldn't she? I mean there's always an element of shit testing... but often there isn't at that stage.

You'd think every girl I have ever asked out is working 150 hour weeks with 0 down time in between to eat or sleep with strictly planned schedules for everything.

This is because girls are conflict avoidant. They will not tell you "no thanks, not attracted" because that's insulting and she doesn't want conflict. Instead she's "sorry, too busy". It's the nice way to say no, and you have to accept that as being reasonable. You wouldn't want to turn someone else down in a mean way just because you're not attracted or aren't into them or suspect they want something different to you.

It shouldn't be this hard to make plans

Exactly.

and I've come to the conclusion that I just don't have things in place that allow me to be attractive.

This is almost certainly the case, with one caveat: if you look needy / desperate / too keen / TOO interested in the date, this can put her off. It's a minor tweak, and unlikely to be your problem though.

Does that sound like I'm on the right path? Please let me know I am trying to become a better person.

Yes, I think you're right. I mean... fundamentally.. look at her actions, not her words. She says whatever, then doesn't go on a date with you. Action = not attracted.

How to be an attractive man: fundamentally you need to do something that works. To be effective at anything. Skilled, talented, hard working, etc. Get on your mission. Get good, get paid, be successful, get the confidence that goes with that journey.

You should be doing this regardless... but fundamentally this has to come BEFORE women. And somehow they need to feel that they come second to that. The easiest and best way to convey this to them is to make it true.

Next you build yourself, especially physically.... lift, pecs, abs, biceps, strength, low bodyfat. Slims your face, makes you stronger. This is good for everything, but primarily with women. Nothing wrong with changing yourself to get what YOU want, ie girls. I do this and I don't pretend to myself I'm doing it to be a better person. I lose weight to make me more attractive to women, it's that simple. I like the muscles, girls like the low BF. So I do that.

Get your skin good, dress well, walk with a swagger so pronounced that people actually mock you for it. Be as happy as you can, never whine, never complain about life or women, act like you have it all and you'll get it all handed to you. People invest in millionaires a hundred times more than they give to paupers. Millionaires get free food. The hungry don't get fed.

Next next... game. Presentation of yourself and seducing girls. This kinda just needs learning but I'll summarise:

Voice low and loud and commanding and challenging and slow
Dominant personality
Masculine polarity (this basically means escalating)
IDGAF mentality when challenged
Push/pull to get her to invest and then to directly threaten this investment and to avoid triggering her instinct of "he wants me therefore I can exploit him". Instead you push you escalate and then you rudely accuse her of wearing the wrong thing and it's over between you. This is clumsy, but you'll get the hang of it.
Frame. Strong frame. Keeping the same in the presence of shit tests. (not cool, not stoic, but just as fun or rude or whatever as you were before the shit test).
"Passing" shit tests. Not really passing... more dealing with them, deflecting them, not taking that shit seriously because it isn't. Her opinion just isn't so important that you care (mission first, remember).
Social credit. ie you do this with five girls at once, and leverage the attraction of the others to increase the attraction of the rest.
No supplication, don't use money, don't use your attention as a bait or payment (eg listening to her whine).

It's all standard stuff, and that's most of it.

[–]MusicSports[S] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

How to be an attractive man: fundamentally you need to do something that works. To be effective at anything. Skilled, talented, hard working, etc. Get on your mission. Get good, get paid, be successful, get the confidence that goes with that journey.

This is my issue. I am decent at a lot of things but I'm not the best at anything. If you need something done why would anyone ask me? This really got me thinking. Like I can't think of many things I'm really confident in myself in other than analysis of lyrics in music or literature. I just started learning coding and it's been fun so far. I JUST started but for some reason I have been feeling good about myself even though I just started knowing that I'm learning something on my own that will be useful when I become decent at it. Moreso than many things I've done in school. I can look and see if there's anything I can do to get paid coding even though I'm just starting out. I need to get paid for being good at something. Thank you this really opened my eyes. I guess my question to you is, do the things you're good at that nobody pays you for count for anything other than your own personal feelings of strength in those areas? For instance my lyrical analysis skills I take huge pride in those. Same with my level of soccer skills and my dedication to exercise. Also my knowledge of the music I'm fond of.

Next next... game. Presentation of yourself and seducing girls. This kinda just needs learning but I'll summarise:

I'm saving this to read it over occasionally.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

e. I just started learning coding and it's been fun so far. I JUST started but for some reason I have been feeling good about myself even though I just started knowing that I'm learning something on my own that will be useful when I become decent at it.

Software engineering can be a great career, and can enhance other ones too.

I guess my question to you is, do the things you're good at that nobody pays you for count for anything other than your own personal feelings of strength in those areas?

I have a few things I'm really good at that I'm not paid to do. Hobbies and suchlike. They can give you great confidence in yourself... or at least let you feel the confidence you SHOULD feel in other areas.

For instance my lyrical analysis skills I take huge pride in those. Same with my level of soccer skills and my dedication to exercise. Also my knowledge of the music I'm fond of.

This is good that you can apply yourself to these things and get good at them. Now apply that same dedication and inherent interest to getting good with girls.

I'm saving this to read it over occasionally.

Good.

Pick one, focus on it for a few days, get it in line, pick the next, focus on that, and so on.

You can't remember everything at once with girls..... you have to focus on each in turn, and then you have that down, and you focus on the next.

Sometimes it all falls apart. Sometimes it all comes together.

One of the RSD guys said something really inciteful, which is that the girl you do well with doesn't see your failures.... all she sees is that you come along, say exactly the right thing, look the right way, sweep her off her feet, know what to do all night long, and everything just works and she's seduced. That looks pretty god damned amazing to her, even if it's largely just luck.

[–]MusicSports[S] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

This is good that you can apply yourself to these things and get good at them. Now apply that same dedication and inherent interest to getting good with girls.

It's so hard to tread the line of this while also not caring what people think. I've felt really lonely the past few years even when I was in the relationship and I'm just getting to the point of being great at being my own company. I want to meet girls but it's so hard to just go out and do that when they often travel in groups to places along with the fact that I could do a better job of finding out fun things to do around town.

One of the RSD guys said something really inciteful, which is that the girl you do well with doesn't see your failures.... all she sees is that you come along, say exactly the right thing, look the right way, sweep her off her feet, know what to do all night long, and everything just works and she's seduced. That looks pretty god damned amazing to her, even if it's largely just luck.

This feels so intimidating to me...like that sounds like such a difficult goal. I know I'm capable but ugh no room for error. Is the mall a good place to meet girls?

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]MusicSports[S] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

I guess I could look around for singing lessons or something. I have been wanting to do that lately. Not sure where else because I'm not much of a club person. I've been constantly in Barnes and Noble because it helps me study and just being out in public makes me feel good about myself.

I think I'm looking at the no room for error thing in such a locked down way because of the little success I've had getting from even zero to 1 in terms of generating interest from girls. I think once I have the stuff in place we talked about like steady income and a job along with my continued weight loss efforts I will be able to relax more often when I see people changing how they interact with me in a more positive manner due to being someone that does things that "work." I just have to stick with something and refuse to stop. Coding and music production still have me so I'm continuing to give it my best.

[–]MattyAnon1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

zero to 1 in terms of generating interest from girls. I think once I have the stuff in place we talked about like steady income and a job along with my continued weight loss efforts I will be able to relax more often when I see people changing how they interact with me in a more positive manner due to being someone that does things that "work."

Err... well anyway.

Yes, you have scarcity mentality and this imposes "gotta make THIS ONE CHANCE work" and ultimately you don't even take the chance.

The rest of your life - no need to rationalise it, just get it all roughly in shape.

Don't worry so much about other people, just get on your path and start making improvement. Don't overthink "this then this and that will cause this and then people who thought that will think this". It's pointless. Just concentrate on improving YOU, and let the rest of the world happen as it may. I don't mean passively. I mean you do you and you try and make things happen, but release yourself from the pressure of having to have things work all the time.

[–]MusicSports1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MattyAnon1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MusicSports1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MattyAnon1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MusicSports1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MattyAnon1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MusicSports1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Pitchfork511 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MusicSports1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Jjmcgrayy 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Here is a bit if advice from a guy that was probably worse than you. I'm talking royal blue Beta.

YOU

The best way to get women is to literally just live man. Ignore them. They are just background tapestry to your life.

What ended up happening for me is I

Went out and had a blast with my Bros.

Women are attracted to dudes having legit fun.

Traveled to other countries.

Women like a well traveled man.

Started writing

Yes writing. A nerdy non pussy getting task like writing a book gets me attention. Why? Cause I nerd out on my story and every chick says she loved my passion.

Do you man. Don't outright ignore women. Be polite. But just make sure that you are on your ship and traveling your sea and she is just a passenger. She can get off whenever the fuck she wants but to your ship is still gonna cruise.

I promise you women will start jostling for a place on your deck.

Your first problem is you are thinking about them too much and making them the destination. They aren't. You are.

[–]Reformed651 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]MusicSports[S] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Reformed650 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]MusicSports[S] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I say that because of the way women act and react to me, along with the way I feel about myself. In terms of how I feel about myself. I have clinical depression and have been receiving help for years. It is working and I have made more progress than I ever though I would but I'm still far from feeling good about myself. Although I have learned that feeling good about yourself comes from working towards being the person you want to be. After VERY recently applying that I've felt much better than any other help has given me and I feel like I'm finally understanding where happiness, self-esteem, and accomplishment comes from. In terms of how women act and react to me, I never receive positive reinforcement for my actions to escalate in any form. For instance, girls are almost constantly bored and disinterested when I talk with them. I am ALWAYS the one keeping the conversation going. The advice I have received on asking questions to keep conversations going works but the problem with it is it's always one sided and women do not ask questions back. I know I am good with conversation because when I talk with guys, I will have great conversations with back and forth communication and I don't find that obvious sense of boredom and disinterest that I receive from girls. In terms of phones and texting, girls often don't text me back or return calls. When they do it is hours apart. I was surprised in the text conversation with the girl this post was about because after I thought the conversation ended she texted me saying "this apple sucks." Now I already know that's nothing to be proud of but that's how little of a response I get from girls 99% of the time, that that little effort to talk about something was surprising to me. In terms of sexually, I have never felt genuine sexual interest from a girl. I had one girl friend where things did become sexual but during the entirety I never felt sexually desired which she then admitted near the end of the relationship that sex wasn't something she desired and was unnecessary to her. Looking back on it the relationship was extremely one sided and I only put up with all of the things I was unhappy with because the little attention I got from a girl was so addicting that I had done anything in my power to keep it even though I was getting next to nothing. Besides her, only one girl has ever flirted with me and that one girl is a person who constantly talks about guys she's fucking and dating but instantly repels the second I mentioned that she felt good, even after blatantly saying she looks good which is fine because she likes when people give her attention with no expectation of anything in return. She rejected me when I first asked her out but has no problems asking me behind my friends' backs if they'd be cool with fucking her noncomittedly in friends with benefits situation. No other girl has ever flirted with me. Just finished my second year of college with not one romantic experience or date. In terms of regular every day things girls don't strike up conversation with me out of the blue and I never catch girls looking at me. Never receive any smiles. I just feel like an outcast. Because of that I think my SMV is extremely low in their eyes. In my own eyes I'm not sure but I do know the one thing I'm doing well is working on myself to be better.

[–]Reformed650 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]MusicSports[S] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm 5'4 and I weigh 162 lbs. I shower every day. If I exercise I shower again. I take care of my hair and stuff. Idk if people want to be around me. I don't think people want to be around me but I've been trying to change that. I play soccer, and basketball regularly. I went out to parties on campus, go to as many clubs as I could to meet people and attempted to participate effectively while learning in the process. I took up acting and was in a play. I work out 4-5 times a week, but I'm being more strict about my diet because even though I'm very athletic my body fat percentage projects otherwise. I'm very quick and agile with good strength behind me. I had multiple on campus jobs but I'm currently home for Summer and I'm working my ass off to get a job for the next few months. Unfortunately fruitless so far but I'm still trying to find one. I also started learning about comedy, music production, and recently coding. I swallowed the pill about 3 years ago when I was 17.

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