My name's Dave, and I'm a long time lurker on the RP, and I've done a lot of reading into the MRA and especially MGTOW. I have some personal hypotheses on human behavior; particularly what motivates us and the propensity toward self-interest and the fulfillment of personal identity.

Lately, I've been contemplating the concept of an idealistic man. We all know what this entails, as it's intuitive; a stoic, powerful, driven, confident, strong, courageous, intelligent, honorable, dutiful, loyal, just, principled, and moral individual; think of Balian played by Orlando Bloom in Kingdom of Heaven or Jack Sparrow played by Johnny Depp in Pirates of the Caribbean for some modern-day examples in cinema. As an older example, think of Rhett Butler played by Clark Gable in Gone with the Wind.

While some of these values appear easy to grasp in the context of TRP or MGTOW, others initially appear "beta" or feminine, such as those that sacrifice the self for the benefit of the other (or group). These would include, duty, honor, loyalty, and martyrdom in an extreme case.

Nevertheless, I am not alone in my idolization of these characteristics. When we think of the ideal man; a demigod such as Hercules or Beowulf (although the latter wasn't divine), we automatically assign strength and courage as desirable, and most do not have qualms with this; few perceive weakness to be a desirable trait. However, many denounce the glorification of loyalty, honor, and duty (and similar characteristics) as societal constructs and therefore undesirable for the man who goes his own way. I wish to bring up two points to reconcile the integration of such traits into the individual.

Firstly, I will note that there exists a strong denouncement of group dynamics in TRP, and rightfully so in opposition to societal expectations, but such does truly limit the perceptions and performance of many members. All relationships and many structures in societies throughout history up to present day demand the application of social context, culture, customs, rules, and some concession. The key here is that, even with ample surrenderances, there remains a net gain for both parties involved. This is the foundation for free trade and win-win transactions/relationships.

To begin my first point with this in mind, I argue that if altruism is self-driven; that is in complete service to the desires of an individual's psychology or rather serves a long-term strategy for personal gain, then its adoption, along with any other traits, such as loyalty, honor, and duty, prove not merely acceptable, but desirable to the ultimate, self-actualized man.

For my second point, I would like to reframe the context of these group-oriented values to an even narrower window; one that fulfills the likely present needs for social exchange present within the individual (as humans tend to be social creatures with a few exceptions). To do so, I will take the common mantra of service to the state, church, or family, and replace this dominant entity with one's own self. Naturally, this defines one's own consciousness as merely a conglomeration of the needs of one's own body. Simply put, view one's self as merely a servant to one's body, genetics, ideals, and mind. With this in mind, (pun intended), one can force open the gap between the superego and id, and place the ego on the former side of the ravine, which will allow one to disassociate from the psychological traps of life and conquer one's primal desires.

CLIFFS:

  • TRP and manosphere often categorize group-oriented behaviors as feminine and undesirable.

  • These behaviors are only such when the motivation is external from one's own self.

  • Pro-social values fulfill the perceived image of the ideal man (across virtually all cultures and likely in your own psyche).

  • To integrate these behaviors and accompanying values into your psyche without violating your own masculinity, you may do two things:

  • (1) Permit only actions that you truly wish to partake in; actions that serve your self in the short-term or long-term, regardless of any short-term negative benefit as long as there is a net gain.

  • (2) Recontextualize your sense of service and view your consciousness as separate from your mind, self-concept, and values. Use this now-separate ego as a master to whom you sacrifice your id and self-actualize your rational desires and wishes; become your ideal self.