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[–]CTsunami 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Can you expand more on 3? Specifically, examples of when you found force necessary and her behaviour after you used force.
[–]Adderallabuse 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Solid advice. Glad to have you aboard.
The dread comment raised my antenna. Its not necessary for a married man to cheat but he must have the ability to do so if he wants to keep his wife eager to please him.
Last night my wife was out to dinner with girlfriends from her business. I enjoyed a quiet evening watching sports and helping this new flair get started. She came home at 11 and was telling me how all the men in a neighbouring commuter town are cheating on their wives. Her friend told her so. I laughed and offered zero reassurance that it was probably an exaggeration. She absolutely knows I could do the same if I choose.
The dread was contagious and she hopped into bed totally DTF
[–]Modredpillschool 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (32 children) | Copy Link
Fuck her well. Make that bitch come every time. She should come first too. This is the one time to put the pussy on the pedestal. Make that bitch come often.
I find that my gal feels closer/more connected to me via orgasm. If we hadn't done it in a few days, she actually gets noticeably closed off. She needs the physical connection to continue.
Maintain frame and plow though shit tests like they don't even exist. I don't even get shit tests anymore, but when I used to, I'd not answer then redirect to something else like I'm hungry, make me something; you look good with some extra weight on you try not to gain anymore though; or simply task her with something. Don't even acknowledge shit test. You are the man of the house. She is under your dominion.
Out of curiosity, what are some examples of early shit tests a LTR might throw in the first year or so?
[–]Endorsed Contributorbogeyd6 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (29 children) | Copy Link
Being on guard from the beginning is the key. They start with little responsibilities here and there being given up. You both agree that she would be better at something and then she slowly takes it over. As you try to retake the shit tests begin on the behavior you previously have displayed.
In the very beginning of the LTR, if you are living together, are going to be one after the other as she tries to lock you down. The list is many but here is a few.
[–]Adderallabuse 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
The 95 vs 93 percent lean beef example rings so true. While I now bat close to 1000 at shrugging it off, inwardly sometimes, I am still annoyed.
[–]Modredpillschool 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Luckily I've got my woman buying as high-fat as she can. She blames herself when she accidentally gets beef in the 90s.
[–]stonepimpletilists 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Did you read the story that he took that from?
[–]Modredpillschool -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link
So I've been dating this LTR for 1.5 years (my RPW flair was wrong, just fixed it). She and I moved into a new place together just a few months back, and I am noticing a larger than usual number of "tests" though not quite as obvious as the ones you've listed here.
I'm getting things like her getting irrationally upset about something at work, and then getting upset with me for "not being supportive."
My response to this has basically been to say "if you wanted support and comfort, you know how to get it. Acting out like this won't work. Sometimes my response like this drags out the fight a few hours. But I never back down.
What I'm wondering is, why the tests keep coming, despite my putting my foot down every time. She's seeing my boundaries, and just won't get it.
Last week she gave me some attitude while we were spending a day out together, and I immediately changed our plans, drove her home, and went out to the bar alone. She knows my boundaries.
But I'm not feeling confident that these tests are going to be subsiding...
Am I doing something wrong? Should I be providing more comfort than I am?
[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link
You placed yourself in a situation where she now holds more power. As a tenant, she has rights in the household and leveraging that power to woman (action, verb). The more power she acquires, she'll find more reasons to be more difficult and put-out less. That is the way of woman. I would never want to live with one.
[–]Modredpillschool 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
While that does up the threshold a little for walking away, she's not on a lease or anything like that... the fact is, we will live together when we have kids, and I'm vetting her for such a responsibility now.
I am planning a family.
[–]Adderallabuse 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Access to young children is a bigger problem in the power shift than alimony. Personally, I could live under a park bench and still find work, rebuild assets, and game new women. Not seeing your kids hurts.
[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
It doesn't matter if she's not on the lease. Once someone has lived under the roof for 30+ days or has received mail at that address, they are automatically granted tenant rights. You can't lock her out or block access to common areas no matter what she does without 30 days notice.
Sidenote: Because she's a woman & tenant now, and laws like VAWA and primary aggressor laws, she can now say you said something in a 'threatening tone' or cry abuse/rape, get you arrested, kick you out of the house, block access to your (future) children, all while you still pay for the rest of the lease.
You're saying you're vetting her, but it seems she already failed based on what you said. You're looking for any reason to fulfill this dream of a family, but society has been constructed to make it difficult to impossible without being a bitch or slave. The only alternative is to constantly appeal to her tingles, invoke fear, and/or establish complete emotional dependency.
[–]Modredpillschool -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
It doesn't matter if she's not on the lease. Once someone has lived under the roof for 30+ days or has received mail at that address, they are automatically granted tenant rights. You can't lock her out or block access to common areas no matter what she does without 30 days notice. Because she's a woman and laws like VAWA and primary aggressor laws, she can now say you said something in a 'threatening tone' or cry abuse/rape, kick you out of the house while you still pay for the rest of the lease.
You're going to take some risks when it comes to starting a family. This is the least of my worries.
You're saying you're vetting her, but it seems she already failed based on what you said.
What I've said doesn't speak to the entire relationship, nor does it speak to how she's gone about resolving it.
I've never been in a relationship that didn't occasionally have some testing/tantrums, and if I were to be honest, I've never met a woman who wouldn't fail the standards put forward by this community. Women are notoriously awful creatures.
The girl I'm dating right now is actually quite good, except for this past week of outbursts. And I am looking to see if she's trainable and understands why this behavior is unacceptable.
If I need to next her, I have no problem doing so.
[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I'm not gonna comment on your situation anymore, you're gonna do what you're gonna do. Today is deadlift day, I'll pray for you.
I've never met a woman who wouldn't fail the standards put forward by this community. Women are notoriously awful creatures.
People read these standards and disregard them because they verbalize the premise, but derive the conclusion as a feeling (not intellectually). The feeling doesn't feel good, so they rationalize, compromise, and/or settle. I'm going to translate the feeling to words.
I have these standards (verbal) Current or previous woman(s) isn't worth it based on standards (feeling) Shit, all women are like this (feeling) Can't fulfill my urge of having a family or cohabitate with a woman happily ever after (feeling) I have this constant urge and philosophy that's really important to me, but can't fulfill it under these standards. Something must be wrong with the standard, not life. (feeling) Reject standards [insert rationalizing, compromise happiness, settle]
I have these standards (verbal)
Current or previous woman(s) isn't worth it based on standards (feeling)
Shit, all women are like this (feeling)
Can't fulfill my urge of having a family or cohabitate with a woman happily ever after (feeling)
I have this constant urge and philosophy that's really important to me, but can't fulfill it under these standards. Something must be wrong with the standard, not life. (feeling)
Reject standards [insert rationalizing, compromise happiness, settle]
Possible Derivation: "If I have these standards, then I won't cohabitate or have a family. No woman is worth the trouble."
Me: exactly.
[–]Modredpillschool -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I look at it this way, believing there's a mythical unicorn out there is as much a fairy tale blue pill as anything else we discuss here.
If you want to have kids, which is a decision I think one is free to make, then you need to look at the world realistically and ask, "What risks am I willing to take?" "What will make a good mother?"
And I'm not sure I have an answer to that second question. But I think I've got the experience necessary to know a lost cause when I see one. At that point, we start over again with a new woman.
That said, believing there's going to be a relationship without hitches is naive at best. The problems I run into with this woman are mole hills compared to the mountains most plugged-in guys face.
She knew she crossed lines and approached me to apologize and thanked me for setting boundaries. My current concern is making sure that she respects the boundaries rather than apologizes after crossing them. And like any child, it doesn't help that she didn't have somebody teaching her boundaries when growing up. I don't know any women who had quality parents these day.
Still going to make the best of it. Going to have kids. Much respect for anybody who decides not to, but I want them.
[–][deleted] 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
Lol, does the elephant get in a huff everytime the mosquito bites?
An eyebrow raise, a stern 'that'll be enough' and providing to goes work damned well.
The trick is she has to respect and value enough first. Keep in shape, have options, be almost unattainable. Girls want to please men they respect. They also want to make sure you're authentic.
[–]ManOfGrapes0 points 10 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
You're describing my exact situation. Keeps looking for "support" (attention) constantly while I try to get work done, and it's been ongoing for months.
It came to head when I essentially told her I would never start a family or life with her ever down the line if she didn't change her behavior. The next day she fucked me twice. It was one of the weirdest changes in attitude I've ever seen.
For reference, I had tried to up the beta to pacify her. I took her out to dinner a bit more, and got involved in some activities together but it wasn't working, only in her favor. Don't give in, RPS.
[–]stonepimpletilists 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Just because they are called shit tests, don't think they aren't foreplay.
Everyone girl wants to have a stronger frame to latch on to
[–]redpotatowedge -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Shit tests and comfort tests generally come based on stage in her cycle. Make sure you track it. Fertility period she wants a strong man and gives shit tests to check if you are. PMS and she wants comforted. Typically.
Also I read in MRP the other day a great analogy about shit tests. It's like Neo in the Matrix. Once Neo really became the One, he didn't have to dodge bullets, he simple stopped them. You get to where shit tests aren't a thing, you swat them down because they don't matter. AA and AM. It takes practice, a lot of practice. But I've realized that every time I argue I lose. The mere act of arguing back instead of AA or AM, or even just shutting up, loses the battle because I'm matching wits with an emotional sociopath. The is no win situation for me. Even if I shut her up by arguing that will be thrown back in my face later. The only win is to not play.
[–]Modredpillschool 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
I get what you're saying, but at the same time, you can't let disrespect go unaddressed? What's the play?
[–]redpotatowedge 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
It's usually case by case for me. I'm still not great but I'm getting better. One key for me is if I feel emotional, what she said rattled me, I STFU. I always fuck those up so I don't engage even if its very disrespectful. I'm getting better at not getting emotional so my range of what I respond to is expanding as well.
The most effective thing I've done is when she says something disrespectful is treat it as a joke. By that I mean if she said that just to poke at me and respond in kind. Make fun back. My wife might mention me being a bad dad, which I am decidedly not, I may AA and say some ridiculous shit about how terrible I am and how I throw my kids from the roof, which I dont. Then follow up with some ridiculous made up shit about how bad their mom is. I don't say "you", just their mom. That not only deescalates, it gives her an out. I think she says that shit because it pops onto her mind and then regrets it. If I fight back she feels the need to defend. With this method she can then play along like it was a joke. Then I smack her ass and go on my merry way.
[–]Modredpillschool 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Okay, how about this scenario. We're chatting in bed about something one morning, I ask her a specific question about a choice she recently made, she says "I don't want to talk about it." I say "Well I think we should talk about it.." she gets huffy and walks out of the room. I think that's disrespectful.
How do you brush it off?
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Dude, never directly counter. Always go indirect. And always frame everything in terms of how it will benefit her.
If she says she doesn't want to talk about it, say "I don't want to talk about it either, but you might want to talk about it because [x]."
Basically, instead of agree and amplify, you should agree and redirect.
[–]redpotatowedge 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That sounds tough. When I see tough ones in my life I know it is my premise that is wrong.
Yes she was very disrespectful in storming out. But how did you get there? That is the issue. When I read "Well I think we should talk about it" in my head I read it in a whiny voice. I think it sounds a little butt hurt. (Side note: I've also said that with similar results.) If it's important to you tell her she can have a reprieve, but you will be discussing it tomorrow, or whenever.
I try to avoid those conversations in bed. That is supposed to be the place for relaxing and fun. Save it for when she's stuck to "the scroll" or some other useless shit. I bet that would have changed the entire outcome. She's all about how she feels about it, and in bed she's already feeling vulnerable, so why would she want to talk shop? I'm not advocating doing things "right." The only "right" is how you want to do it. What I am saying is begin with the end in mind.
PS This is how I deconstruct these situations in my life. You notice above it started as "tough". Then I went back a step and saw something. Then I went back a few more and saw what I think you should have done to get your desired outcome. It takes practice but does become more second nature over time. The more commitment you offer (moving in, kids) the more you will see this and these type of behaviors and get even more "wonderful" practice. But when you get better at it the frequency also decreases.
PPS If she still stormed off and I really needed to discuss it I'd go about my business and bring it up again later and and tell her that we would have this discussion. It's a stick to your guns situation.
[–]nargin01 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
She's seeing my boundaries, and just won't get it.
Are you absolutely certain about that?
I used to think that I was very explicit and it wasn't until I read WISNIFG that it became very clear to me that my communication style was actually too ambiguous and lacked focus. Women often operate on covert language so if you're not extremely explicit and clear with a history of being extremely explicit and clear, they can misread and think you're trying to say something else. Hell, they want to misread and think you're saying something else for nothing more than the pure emotional drama of it.
If you don't have a history of direct assertive communication it takes time for your woman to adjust. Basically you want to teach her to trust that she can take everything you say at face value. But that requires learning to actually say what you want to say. I don't know if WISNIFG is red-pill (a lot of the concepts and terminology are seen here, but I don't find it on the sidebar so I'm not sure whether it's been filtered through something else) but it's what unlocked this for me.
"Well I think we should talk about it.."
IMHO the soft communication there has just pivoted into a discussion about power. So, you made the conversation be about power rather than what you think you actually wanted to talk about.
Another book I found helpful is "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk" I read that for dealing with my kids, but apply it everywhere now. lol
WISNIFG also addresses this. It's about learning how to mentally process the insult to defang it.
... so I don't have a magic bullet for that conversation other than that it should not have happened that way.
n.b. users refusing to actually read (or giving up reading) WISNIFG is one of the long-standing sources of frustration between new users and experienced users on MRP.
3 tools. Commitment, affection, and attention. Your smv gives them teeth.
Just remove them, commensurate with the event. At the end of the day, it's like anything. Disregard what she says, see what she does.
It has an added benefit of creating an emotional push pull, which is like a constant humming of low level game. It's why guys lose game as they settle down, it goes from sprints to marathon running.
[–]stonepimpletilists -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You've given more commitment, it comes with boundary testing. Girls seem to just know when they can make a test for more power, even though they really don't want it in most cases.
Eventually you hold frame, or aqueuse, and you'll end up in a new normal.
Like bogey was saying, it's way easier to deal with these early, otherwise they become much harder down the line. Think of it like a variation of iron rule 7. Way easier to set expectations early, than claw them back afterwards.
Hell, if she's a good one, sometimes it's nice to have a competent first officer, frees you up for things of concequence.
[–]Endorsed Contributorbogeyd6 -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
It's been a long 48 hours with the wild fire. The delays are ridiculous. You essentially dont need to answer her constant bitching and whining. Just listen and throw out a yes or "thats whatever you were talking about for you" and when she gets shitty you just a&a or tease and turn it sexual. She doesn't want your support, she wants your ear. Over time she will get the hint all on her own. So the play is essentially to shut the fuck up, be the oak and let it die itself over time. She needs to be with her friends, those should be her emotional tampons. It's a woman thing.
What you don't want is the feedback loop which sounds like that's what you have been doing. You don't need to put a foot down, pander to her whims, lay down the law. Etc... It's like yelling at your dog for barking at an intruder. Don't engage her with overt communication.
Finally to your answer. Are you doing something wrong? Yes. Should you providing more comfort? No. The shit tests dont stop until she can feel like you actually control things, including her. This means that the shit tests come as long as she feels there is a weakness. You don't provide comfort until its necessary. The overt communication comes to a halt and the covert communication takes over.
At any rate, welcome to the world of LTR's. Where she wants you to be her friend, but needs you to be her man.
[–]Modredpillschool 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
The overt communication comes to a halt and the covert communication takes over.
This is good, but I suppose I should add, she's a little closer to the autistic side of the spectrum and my normal covert game has so far done jack-shit with her.
I'm going to give it another try just in case I'm missing something, but generally speaking her interpretation of covert communication is a miss every time. (She is constantly confused about how others act). She doesn't see or understand body language or unspoken words. (Or hasn't, so far in my experience).
I'm hoping her proximity to me will help her pick up on covert communication a little better.
I've been in LTRs before where I have been able to gain control rather easily, but this has been an uphill challenge.
[–]Endorsed Contributorbogeyd6 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Wish I had time to reply but I am about head out on vacation. Sounds like you got some red flags on your potential LTR. How to proceed further? There is probably no good way and its just something you have to next or be willing to deal with.
Either way, I wouldnt spend hours fighting with her. Good behavior is rewarded with commitment and bad behavior is rewarded with withdrawal.
[–]jac99[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Honestly, its been so long I haven't gotten one in years and can't even remember. What still happens from time to time is a recalcitrant attitude. I have no tolerance for cunty obstinate tone, and refused to be spoken to in a tone. This is a lesson that unfortunately needs to be laid down every month or so. c'est la vie
This is a lesson that unfortunately needs to be laid down every month or so.
I was wondering if this was normal. What's your strategy for dealing with this? A formal warning? Or simply going silent on her for a period of time?
[–]Modredpillschool[M] [score hidden] 10 years ago stickied comment (0 children) | Copy Link
Standard MRP Disclaimer:
As TRP generally doesn't consider a legal marriage contract as a terribly good option in Western cultures, these MRP flaired threads are specifically for help with these strategies for people who are either already married, have a family/children, in a LTR, or would like to start a family in today's culture.
Comments should not devolve into "never get married" comments. This is already understood.
[–]stonepimpletilists 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Oh boy, where to start...
starting with an apology is a pretty shitty way to lead a post on being a leader in the relationship.
getting huge involves the kitchen, getting strong involves the weights. Dont' mistake that
There is no greater loss of frame than using force. It's weak, generally erodes trust, and sets you up for hell, if she decides to flip the switch and rewrite your relationship dynamic. You have 3 tools. Commitment, attention, and affection. You have your SMV which gives those tools teeth, remove them as necissary. You don't use force on your dog when he misbehaves, your kids when they are out of line. And you don't use it on a woman if she's testing your mettle. This advice is dangerous, and I really hope no one takes it to heart.
Have a frame. Shit tests should be either amusing, intriguing, or funny. Amused Mastery, Agree and Amplify, fogging are the tools of the trade here.
Provision to a relationship is like being an asshole is to a plate. Completely irrelevant. You need to beat the bare minumum threshold of provision, that's all. The rest is on you.
Chores are for children. Responsibilities are for men. If the dishes need doing and she isn't pulling her weight. Don't be a bitch, and just do it. The captain does the job that needs to be done. Laundry too. Two notes with this. A woman who is happy generally wants to please her man, and choreplay is what she will do, it's a good barometer on the health of a relationship. Eventually, you, her, or both of you realize she isn't contributing to a relationship as she should for a prize like you, and you may have to deal with that. You don't need her around, and it should be reflected on how you handle the house.
Know how to be better than a one pump chump. Having said that, her orgasm is her responsability. If you fuck her to selflessly make sure she gets hers, it's just choreplay. Sometimes, it's OK to just caveman her when she's not in the mood, and just get yours. You'd be surprised how happy she can be afterwards, even without the bacon dance.
Compliments are like drugs. too much and they lose their potency. So are dates. What you're looking for is emotional engagement. the DEVI method talks about this, and I do better with a game of laser tag and a bag of skittles than your romantic date does... Guaranteed. Be unobtainable enough that she has to work for your affections. I guarantee it will have more emotional engagement and love from her than all the romantic pandering would. Flowers on valentines day are not about showing your affection, it's about her beating her crab bucket of social hens over the head with her relationship virtue signalling.
Don't believe me? Get flowers for her, leave them in the bedroom for her alone. Then try it again later, but make a big show to do it in front of her 'frenimies' co worker hens, or other social matrix.
Watch which one gets her going better.
I don't know how long you've been in an LTR/CL/Marriage for, but there's a lot of material out there thats already walked these paths... What you got here is NOT standing on the shoulders of giants, but standing on a stepstool beside them.
[–]ColdTheory 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Explain bacon dance please.
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