~ archived since 2018 ~

Sweden to tighten rape legislation, outlawing non-consensual sex

perplexedm

March 21, 2018

6 upvotes

/r/MensRights

Download the post

Want to save the post for offline use on your device? Choose one of the download options below:

PDF TXT EPUB

Post Information

Title	Sweden to tighten rape legislation, outlawing non-consensual sex
Author	perplexedm
Upvotes	6
Comments	12
Date	March 21, 2018 7:42 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/8654gh/sweden_to_tighten_rape_legislation_outlawing/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/sweden-to-tighten-rape-legislation-outlawing-non.1178794 https://theredarchive.com/post/1178794

Comments

[–]thrway_1000 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]tenchineuro 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]perplexedm[S] 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]tenchineuro 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I was reading your link below and some of the comments are scary.

By and large, I just don't see a pattern of false reporting of "regretted sex." I do see a pattern where a minority of men pursue sex as if "getting some" is more important than maintaining basic integrity.

Men who behave with normal restraint, situational awareness, and who communicate at a basic level, don't seem to get into situations where casual sex carries much if any social or legal risk.

It seems like a highly vocal minority of men are commiting most of the infractions, and overhyping the purported risks of "being a man," as if their experience must be the norm.

No - those are the risks of being a clueless, sex-obsessed creep and asshole.

So it would see that it's always the man's fault and that we should just believe the woman.

[–]perplexedm[S] 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Flawless44 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Not really. Have you ever been in a situation where an aggressive salesperson got you to buy something you weren't that interested in even after you declined one way or another?

Yeah, you should have known better but you didn't. You were immature and unprepared for the real world and got taken advantage of. That's why laws exist to allow you to return these kinds of items within some time period.

Unfortunately there's no way to "return" sex, so were stuck in this grey area of not knowing the best way to handle it.

IMHO, the solution is two fold.

Teach people how to say no and be adamant with it.
Teach people how to recognise social, verbal, and non verbal cues with regards to sex and consent.

You would think both of those are "obvioius" but they're not. Some people are too uncertain and give in. Some others have only ever seen "no" or "maybe" in regards to non verbal communication, or are extremely inexperienced such that they really don't know what "yes" looks like, or what enthusiastic consent is.

[–]tenchineuro 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Flawless44 -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There is a reddit about a man who just did not acknowledge a woman at a bar and she glassed him causing grievous bodily harm. Whom do you suggest we teach what?

I left the gender ambiguous because my suggestions apply to both. Men and women can both get into these situations.

Socially, women don't tell men what they want, they don't respond to direct questions about what they want, and this non-verbal clue stuff is requirement for mindreading.

This relates to my second point. You are inexperienced. They weren't direct with you. Women will tend to be more passive, true, but a woman who wants to kiss you will say yes when you tell her that you want to kiss her, or will say yes with obvious body language with a big smile and nod. It will not be ambiguous. You will not have to think about it. Do not act on anything less. It is her inexperience, uncertainty and/or reluctance that is causing any unenthusiastic reaction and it means you back off, maybe try again later. If that fails Stop! Pursuing! You havent lost out on sex if you had only done one other magic thing. She was either not willing or not interested and was unable to properly communicate it. Move on. Go to the gym. Women are abundant.

I know it can be hard, I was there too. After I worked on myself, became desirable, I started getting enthusiastic consent. It exists. It is amazing to finally get something you want and have it be easy. That is the norm. You just haven't seen it yet.

Unless you set down in law exactly what everything means so that everyone is on the same page (this probably won't work with foreigners), there is no certainty in any of the above.

Unfortunately this isn't an option for a variety of reasons.. even with sex contracts. The best that can be done is teach people proper interaction and communication to figure out if the other person is "down".

[–]tenchineuro 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]perplexedm[S] 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]tenchineuro 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]perplexedm[S] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link