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politicsthrowaway230 Archive

View 6 posts and 805 comments by politicsthrowaway230 on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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2

I think vague criticism of Women(TM) rather than criticism of (treatment by) certain women won't land in general, and it shouldn't. I feel the same about criticism of Men(TM), but that kind of thing has evolved to the point where it's pointless and a distraction to try to shut it down.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/23 01:22 PM
2

I don't doubt a woman somewhere has expressed the idea that she would not want to date an autistic man because she feels she would be exploiting an unaware, incapable, intellectually/emotionally disabled man, but I think the rate at which that would be a genuine issue would be very low. (I know people don't like "functioning levels", but I haven't been given any other way to say this, people know what I mean even if it's reductive) - as you say it just depends what kind of functioning they're at…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/23 12:59 PM
3

you read the title the wrong way around
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/23 05:14 PM
4

"I wouldn't date an autistic person but I'm sure many would" is not an answer to "What can autistic guys do to not make women feel like predators?". Neither is "I would date an autistic person". The only proper and pretty good answer in this thread has been given by Cool_Relative7359. Other users have jumped on this specific post to generally shit on autistic people (and as expected here the other poster jumped on this to shit on women instead).
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/23 04:31 PM
12

lmao can I ask why you posted this? it's like someone going onto Reddit who was disabled after a horrific accident, asking about dating prospects, and someone commenting "I'm sorry, but nothing can convince me or make me want to go out with a cripple. I empathise though. Maybe look for other cripples. Good luck". As the other guy said, no-one asked.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/23 04:14 PM
1

what does it say about me that I read this question the wrong way around at first? Other commenters have as well and I'm not sure what to think of the fact I did this.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/23 04:03 PM
1

All the ideas I wrote down are responses to the title and what it immediately made me think, which is about male degeneracy and female purity - which in my view has always came down to what I discussed in that post (particularly that inherent and fundamental differences in female and male sexuality run deeper than just their expression, but to how they work internally, which is dubious to me). If I've misunderstood what the post is about I'd have been happy to delete the OP but the alarming read…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/23 05:39 PM
2

No I didn't - I thought I did precisely the opposite of this. I put "degeneracy" in quotation marks, (I don't personally call these behaviours degenerate and am pro-kink) I called the outrage at the idea of female sexual "degeneracy" quasi-misogynistic and criticised people who view these "degeneracies" as necessarily products of some kind of patriarchal indoctrination (where this view results only from moral outrage). I thought I did enough to make this line of attack clear, apparently not. Per…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/23 05:04 PM
1

I'm sorry but I don't really understand how this is a reply to what I said, or what exactly I wrote that you're disagreeing with. If anything your view is completely consistent with mine and what you have written acts as a good complement to it. I am not a conservative, so saying this is "what conservatives want" is something I agree with and something that doesn't do anything for me. I am happy to clarify any points, maybe I didn't talk enough about sexual repression or properly integrate it in…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/23 04:30 PM
1

It's completely sincere, I'm not sure why you'd think I'm trolling. I'm confused by your seeming characterisation of me as conservative given that I thought I hit on the "women viewed as sexually pure beings" (or that ought to be sexually pure, and this being enforced on them) point, and then the last sentence: That there may be, but at the core is very often (at least in low-quality discourse) this quasi-misogynistic outrage at the existence of non-conforming sexual behaviour in women, not a so…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/23 04:20 PM
1

I become increasingly sceptical there actually is massive inherent difference between male and female sexuality that doesn't purely come down to how they're expressed. At best, the averages lie in different places, but women and men probably exist everywhere on the spectrum and I'm convinced there's a huge amount of men whose sexuality works in a way described as "female". I get off to imagination and sexual stories more than visual media, I wouldn't feel comfortable having sex with a random wom…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/23 02:48 PM
4

yes this is why gender role abolition is desirable to me, you haven't done anything wrong (you're just you) and so you shouldn't feel judged or socially punished for it. you might be in a minority but it's not going to be a small one.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/23 10:08 AM
4

many such cases
/r/PurplePillDebate24/11/23 07:32 PM
1

it is not clear what the last line means given that men can also be happy and content with being single, and there are also women who say they feel "touch-starved" or "invisible" and crave physical intimacy. Men are often (much?) more resentful in their reaction and perhaps fewer women are in the same situation, but I think it's easy to overblow the differences. I don't think what is said is substantially different. I don't think there's anything wrong nor "unnatural" with being disappointed abo…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/11/23 07:15 PM
5

It makes an extraordinary amount of sense that a lot of incels are not white, it's just a bastardisation of idpol that suggests otherwise. I would say that although people are unlikely to be directly bigoted against their own race, (both South and East, etc.) Asians can quite comfortably and probably often do hold anti-black or anti-Semitic beliefs and so on. Basically being not white does not preclude you from having far-right racial beliefs, far from it.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/11/23 04:21 PM
2

AAAAAAAAAAAA I'M GRILLING
/r/PurplePillDebate23/11/23 02:47 PM
20

No, I don't believe it will be as strict or as universal as people might think. People really talk up "would never date or be friends with an x", but when push comes to shove, many many people are more flexible than they say. Stuff seems so clear in the abstract, but when you're put in these situations, things are suddenly far less cut-and-dry, you see a bunch of ambiguity and we can struggle to put our foot down even when we really should. More so with friends, but dates too. Librights often se…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/11/23 02:13 PM
3

we overcome that to a degree by knowing it's a primitive heuristic and not in accordance with our morals but we work against it I don't think we disagree on any of this then, that's the same approach I encourage.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/11/23 05:29 PM
3

i have never successfully initiated with a woman, it's always been them initiating with me if this is true, even better for me I guess
/r/PurplePillDebate20/11/23 05:20 PM
3

out of interest, because this always come up, would this imply that some extent of ableism and anti-GNCism is natural? and worth saying that I perfectly understand where it comes from. But as with a lot of things I'm not sure if it should be privileged above analysis.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/11/23 04:36 PM
2

i hate to do the "switch the genders" but I don't think you would say this were the OP a woman. A lot of women don't speak out because they fear ostracization regardless of whether they'd actually face ostracization or not, it's no different to men so I don't think this is very fair. It's not really enough that we don't mistreat victims, they must also have confidence that they won't be mistreated and that's something that hasn't been achieved yet.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/11/23 04:16 PM
6

but if someone looks off and then they simply do ONE thing that breaks another social norm, now they are considered risky and creepy. yep part of this is saltiness on my part that other people can throw around gross shit, (would never be friends with such people, just people I bump into sometimes) but I feel if I said the same thing I would rightly have my ass handed to me. the mistake RPers make is that they think this has to do with "attractiveness" or whatever, it really comes down to how muc…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/11/23 03:06 PM
9

as were some occupations and hobbies Most participants reported making judgments of creepiness instantly Judgments of creepiness were largely derived from facial features, especially eye (staring, shifty, small, and squinty) and teeth regions (missing, crooked, and dirty). I worry how much of this doesn't actually have much to do with sexual threat, and is just stereotyping "unusual" or non-conforming people. People are generally much more forgiving towards likeable people who are creepy in very…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/11/23 12:54 PM
4

first you say you're arguing against the average guy wanting that, then you identify a lot that do, then you conclude "so stop acting like all guys do that". It just shows that talking about "men want x", "women want y" you get garbage in and garbage out. Any statement like that can be met with millions of counterexamples, and the response will always be "I didn't mean all men, just a lot of men", and that's completely thought-terminating because how do you respond to that? Not worth the time of…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/11/23 06:11 PM
1

WOW REALLY WHAT THE FUCK, NOW YOU TELL ME
/r/PurplePillDebate19/11/23 04:52 PM
1

this threw me off because someone with the same pfp was replying to me elsewhere. I know that this is the general feeling among people, I just wish people were more honest about it.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/11/23 12:02 PM
5

i already doubt this will go anywhere, sorry. “Attack” the ideology of these men. That would be missing the forest for the trees a bit. The broad societal consensus is that sexual assault is "worse" and more impactful happening to women, and there is belief among some that men are always primed for sex and wouldn't say no but I think this is secondary. This is sort of an undertone that floats around but people feel bad spelling it out. Sure other people might not say "god I wish that was me" or …
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/23 09:33 PM
7

Yeah sure fine, you have established that this is an attitude that is out there as I just said and I agree. However we still have the questions of: whether this is a/the main reason they are not taken as seriously or whether there are more fundamental cultural beliefs that these comments originate from whether these random Internet comments have legislative implications. Do you think these are the people making policy decisions?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/23 09:10 PM
7

This is thoroughly unserious, sorry. In the comments you establish that there are a lot of men that don't take male rape victims seriously, you do not establish: that this is a main reason they are not taken as seriously that this has legislative implications (I am personally 100% confident it does not and can expand on this - specifically the current definition reflects a consensus among at least some experts in the area and is not just some ancient relic)
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/23 09:03 PM
2

(not replying to the OP in case they avoided my post on purpose) You're missing the forest for the trees by focusing on legislation. The legislation reflects the consensus of many experts in sexual violence (people will say that it's just legislation not catching up with the times - that's essentially completely false) and can be symptomatic of some pretty gross beliefs. Even when it's just a technical distinction, when we have a backdrop of male victims being undermined it's just going to uphol…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/23 08:58 PM
3

Sure, I am not really sure who you have been interacting with all this time to think that this is not a much-discussed issue among them though.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/23 05:04 PM
10

Yeah I mean if your entire exposure to it is just sorting by top and scrolling down for a few minutes, I can see how you get this impression. But this really is incredibly standard issue MRA stuff. If you say "men are mostly raped by other men" to a reasonably-well-read MRA, they'll go to town on it. Conversely, the NISVS and Made to Penetrate are almost exclusively talked about on MRM spaces and in feminist spaces in reaction to those. This is mainly because it's impossible to discuss these thi…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/23 05:02 PM
10

Female-perpetrated male rape is literally one of the most talked-about issues in the MRM. Literally non-stop since the NISVS in the early 2010s, you really cannot miss it.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/23 04:55 PM
10

I'd add that this is just a language issue no it definitely isn't people will appeal to a very general definition of rape (unconsensual sexual activity) while using statistics that use a much more specific definition, that practitioners more often use, to misrepresent the prevalence of sexual assault against men the reason why penetration, to some practitioners (ie. experts in sexual violence who are consulted on legislation), should require penetration is because female-perpetrated sexual assau…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/23 04:42 PM
3

libright bf and far-left radfem gf is not an unheard of (and frequently memed) combination but not sure if it transfers to the US.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/11/23 01:10 PM
0

not traditional. I can do D within a D/S dynamic but that dynamic should be compartmentalised (to the extent that this is possible) so that I am not actually the leader of the relationship and it has an egalitarian underpinning to it. Can also do S and happy to dissolve the compartmentalisation and let the woman lead. I am not comfortable having authority over a person that extends beyond a compartmentalised D/S dynamic (I did attain this at some point and I wasn't massively comfortable) but I a…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/11/23 11:51 AM
-1

apart from: I don't want anyone to be leading anyone else when we're not in bed this is basically just an (idealised) traditional configuration with genders switched (assuming poster is in relationship with man). probably with something overhead so the partner has more control, or at least I would hope
/r/PurplePillDebate17/11/23 11:43 AM
7

Women are biologically disposed to asexuality. pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft
/r/PurplePillDebate16/11/23 08:22 PM
2

What I’m referring to here is women that identify as straight performing homosexual acts No, the term "men who have sex with men" was coined because there's a significant number of men who identify as straight (who are truthfully at least bisexual with heavy het lean [they therefore might not see use in the "bisexual" label] or probably sometimes closeted gay) and have sex with other men. This seems to be less prominent in women where there is less stigma attached to identifying as bisexual.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/11/23 08:15 PM
-2

but how do we determine how much of that 1 in 4 deserved it ???
/r/PurplePillDebate16/11/23 05:34 PM
2

you dropped this king 👑
/r/PurplePillDebate15/11/23 10:12 PM
7

given everything is consensual, for me nothing
/r/PurplePillDebate15/11/23 04:33 PM
4

I've never been approached, but I've had women initiate with me and apart from one, (who DM'd me after a pub meet - still don't know why me out of everyone there) none of them really came as a surprise. I'm not necessarily against initiating myself, I fear making them uncomfortable and having their opinion of me changed far more than getting rejected.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/11/23 10:13 PM
5

not sure why you call this blue-pilled, it is not entirely unreasonable. if anything pathologising men wanting to be approached rather than approaching is just reinforcing gender roles which shouldn't be what the bluepill is about.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/11/23 10:10 PM
2

of the whole population I would guess << 10% for me, going down to probably much less than 1% if you added "would realistically date if I got to know them". while I can become decent friends with someone quite easily, "clicking" on a deeper level is very very hard and I'm "icked" relatively easily when it comes to potential partners (this has only directly effected me once and it was hanging on by a thread for other reasons anyway). Neurodivergence on their side helps but is probably not necessa…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/11/23 03:18 PM
1

yeah exactly
/r/PurplePillDebate12/11/23 10:52 PM
3

some women/girls don't mind playfighting like that especially with siblings, probably fewer than men/boys but it's not like they don't exist. just got to have it established as a thing you're both ok with and not something you spring on someone all gender really indicates is likelihood of certain traits, there is nothing (or close enough) exclusive to any
/r/PurplePillDebate12/11/23 09:07 PM
–

as serious as it is there's only so much one can say to the effect of "don't cheer on (/statutory) rape". maybe people should try to isolate and attack the societal standards that lead people to saying and thinking these things.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/11/23 12:59 PM
2

Yeah I do try to speak to people whose perspective I find genuinely interesting but I respect that the people there probably would not want that. I've found a small YouTuber who I would be interested in chatting to for a similar reason. You learn far more than dealing in caricature as often happens here. If anything this is probably a more productive way to convert "lonely" men to caring about women's issues, start with this common experience and then introduce gendered elements on both sides. I…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/23 09:22 PM
4

you can debate there's more of one than the other (at least on the extreme end of the spectrum) but I think lonely men and lonely women share commonalities that we should think and talk more about.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/23 09:07 PM
0

no worries lamo
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/23 07:52 PM
-1

lol you don't have to "man here", you're not in a female space
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/23 07:49 PM
12

inclined to believe that this is not true. Standards might be somewhat lower but I think it's overstated ("men have lower standards" gets quickly mangled to "men have no standards at all and would literally fuck a pile of shit with a vagina" so I hesitate to even say the former) - there are still women who feel "passed over" by being unattractive, autistic, not white, etc. so clearly there is more to it. "Invisible" is often the term used (an example I would call typical that I found off Google,…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/23 07:25 PM
1

i might have parsed what you said wrong, but I read: Then why are they lonely? as a response to: Not all lonely males are inadequate This is what I'm uncomfortable with. We may have different understanding of the word "lonely" but this means that other lonely men catch a load of strays, being told that they're "inadequate" or such.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/23 07:11 PM
4

like there aren’t amazing men who are lonely simply because they’re short there is no way you are over the age of 12 and believe that people are lonely for being short.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/23 05:19 PM
0

??? PPD don't assume lonely people (to be real, lonely men specifically) are fundamentally bad or defective people challenge. Never see this kind of garbage verbalised offline but online you can't move two inches without being neck-deep in it.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/23 05:13 PM
1

even the mythical ones who apparently say they do, don't. unless they were a proto-Andrew Tate, I straight up wouldn't believe someone who said this.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/11/23 05:03 PM
28

I know this is an ambitious suggestion, but could I suggest that sometimes the man is at fault, sometimes the woman is, and other times it is amicable? This binary of "men are effectively always to blame if their marriage fails" or "women are effectively always to blame if their marriage fails" is brainrotten garbage.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/11/23 02:25 PM
2

I've read plenty of PoC women, self-described "ugly women", autistic women, etc. say they are invisible and/or get "passed over" by men. I am inclined to believe that over this.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/11/23 07:04 PM
4

Not only are women happy af single almost pointless saying this, because you know this is wrong in a literal sense, but there are many that aren't and a lot of people who are depressed over "feeling invisible" throughout their lives. I will even give the response, "well they cope with it better and don't inflict it on others/shoot up places because of it". Still means that this is wrong.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/11/23 05:31 PM
5

All 3 claims are wrong in pretty obvious ways, for sure. I am unsure whether they are genuinely believed by people, they're really just something people throw out to explain why what they're reading "isn't really an actual problem". Previously I have got upset by the automatic demonisation of "lonely people", effectively saying "if you're lonely, that reflects badly on you as a person. If you're a man, that is". They're directing it towards the people complaining, but there is nothing to disting…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/11/23 05:24 PM
1

yeah I probably talked past you a bit because sometimes I'm criticised for not picking up on "bad bits" of the rhetoric of people that agree with me. I also don't buy that women's emotions are treated the same, women cry frequently and over anything Did not really want to say it like this, but I can say I found an AskWomen thread on "what's the stupidest thing you've cried over" and I wouldn't call the OP's example any worse than the average. I don't have an issue with either and wouldn't be fli…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/11/23 03:45 PM
6

yeah people talked a lot about "having to pay for your partner" but splitting the bill has always been the expectation in my experience. granted I think if someone did expect me to split the bill they wouldn't like me for other reasons (ie. not traditional).
/r/PurplePillDebate06/11/23 12:49 PM
0

not on board with the "it's what women want" thing. I'm inclined to believe that the BP women here aren't lying. I just feel like something is missing. what I'm saying is that you won't often catch people saying "I don't want emotional sensitivity", it'll instead be baked into "knowing how much emotion to show", "knowing when you need to put your feelings aside and be a rock for people around you", "knowing what situations it's appropriate to display emotions in", and so on. Instead of then reac…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/11/23 10:23 AM
7

i know it's impossible to prove or disprove "generally [...]" statements, but my experience does not really align with: their usual source of support is generally a woman Bar one case I've probably never been the absolute sole support for a woman but I've been an agony uncle (or as a departed friend once described me "straight gay best friend" (??)) for a fair few. And a few men as well, though especially for relationship issues whereas for the women it was more general & friendship stuff. Can't…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/11/23 12:01 AM
1

you my sir are a gentleman and a scholar
/r/PurplePillDebate05/11/23 10:46 PM
4

Excuse me ma'am Not sure, but have a great day dear. audible fedora tips
/r/PurplePillDebate05/11/23 10:40 PM
4

loving the based bluepill rep in this thread
/r/PurplePillDebate05/11/23 10:06 PM
2

I don't think people should have to deal with emotional dumping (because "dumping" builds in that it's an inconsiderate barrage or deliberately bringing stuff up to manipulate) but I don't think someone has the right, within reason, to tell someone else when a display of emotion is or isn't valid, or whether they think it is of the "correct" intensity. We are all wired differently and react to things differently. Something that wouldn't phase us on one day may cause us to break down inconsolably…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/11/23 09:54 PM
1

Sure, I'm not sure if these would be considered meaningfully different situations by the OP though (or would have been had you not said this first) though. I don't think it's meaningfully different myself. The whole point is: my point is that the OP is effectively icked over being quick to tears or especially emotionally sensitive, which agrees with the "men are penalised for showing emotion" point. I respond this way only because I recall almost this exact argument [edit: very similar wording a…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/11/23 09:43 PM
4

when sports team go up or down a division, tears are far from rare. maybe not quite inconsolable, but idk things can compound to that point I guess? my point is that the OP is effectively icked over being quick to tears or especially emotionally sensitive, which agrees with the "men are penalised for showing emotion" point. I respond this way only because I recall almost this exact argument appearing on Twitter years back, though that person went all in with the whole "I'm a woman so I'm biologi…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/11/23 09:38 PM
6

Most people would think that's weird would they? I wouldn't, really. People cry over much less. Just means they're sensitive. If that's a turnoff for someone, they are effectively aligning themselves with the RP point.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/11/23 09:12 PM
14

I've read this sort of language ("yes, displays of emotion, but justifiable displays of emotion") before and to be quite honest I think you're one of the people being complained about. It's just dressed up and obscured a bit. At the very least, I don't think crying at your football team losing is a good example. Might mean they're sensitive but people cry when favourite characters die on TV shows, because their pet is "so cute", because they spilt a glass of milk, etc. All sorts of reasons that …
/r/PurplePillDebate05/11/23 09:00 PM
1

The idea is that people shouldn't just be open with their intimate partner since this creates an unhealthy dependence on them. It also skews the power dynamic in favour of the other partner who can leverage this dependence. Both men and women can be guilty of this but I think men are in general less likely to have a social network they feel they can rely on for emotional support. I don't like the framing of "men should be open with other men" that is sometimes seen, I think it's more productive …
/r/PurplePillDebate05/11/23 08:52 PM
1

if it doesnt then it can only be for the better
/r/PurplePillDebate05/11/23 02:43 PM
4

that's not what gender critical means
/r/PurplePillDebate05/11/23 12:07 PM
1

i would say "i doubt it's correct" but then I remember in the US like 40% of people are obese. probably still wrong
/r/PurplePillDebate05/11/23 11:44 AM
2

i think it's supposed to be a satire of blue pill
/r/PurplePillDebate04/11/23 03:36 PM
1

it is not really clear to me what they are saying is the case and what ought to be the case. since they don't really say this ought not to be the case I'm assuming they agree with all this "man should lead the relationship and keep his partner in line" nonsense.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/11/23 02:04 PM
4

no bluepiller would unironically talk about "punishing" their partner. they're (hopefully) not a child and not someone who you need to look after like one. If a guy I know was talking about "punishing" his partner, I would think he slaps her if she burns the casserole or whatever. If not that, what is it supposed to mean??? You just said it should be this way?? if you're somehow being serious - maybe you should stop trying to commandeer women and your relationships with them and instead let them…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/11/23 01:55 PM
1

????????
/r/PurplePillDebate03/11/23 09:23 PM
3

Replying to the title only, I would not be surprised if attitudes towards gender politics is completely predictable from your past experiences/childhood. I have noticed that anti-feminist/pick-me women have had e.g. a very influential father figure, a boyfriend or husband who is their world, etc. (clearly they have filed this as "Men have been great to me in my life" rather than "there have been men that have been great to me in my life"*) and they seem to imagine misandristic rhetoric as being …
/r/PurplePillDebate03/11/23 02:35 PM
0

I'm not that surprised someone would have this reaction ("I don't want to open up because I had a negative reaction from a previous partner"). It may not be a rational reaction, but humans are fundamentally emotional and not rational beings - "rationality" is just something we use to justify emotional reactions as if they're not just that. But to generalise this to "men shouldn't open up to their partners because you will get the same reaction as me" is just blowing hot air, a radicalising call …
/r/PurplePillDebate03/11/23 02:00 PM
–

If it weren't for the social pressure on women to marry, I would expect at least 50% of women to stay single marrying maybe, but long-term partners, definitely not. I think you're doing the same thing as the OP. My experience is that a great deal of people who say the kind of thing the OP end up in relationships at some point but might not be too bothered either way. i am not even sure if there is a pressure to marry in irreligious Western cultures, just a pressure to be in a relationship and no…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/11/23 10:36 PM
1

I'm not talking about environments where this is a concern. It's not as if people don't say progressive things or make jokes suggesting them, but the sheer extremity of misandristic rhetoric seems very online. People who I expect to have this lean turn out to be "rough around the edges" in other respects. Maybe it is out of fear of getting cancelled, but again at the very minimum they have a huge amount of cognitive dissonance around it. I'm not really sure if someone would actually get sacked f…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/10/23 04:06 PM
1

i did i just wanted to mansplain the situation
/r/PurplePillDebate30/10/23 12:40 AM
-1

it's the other poster's fault for not saying this, but they only said that they don't believe the prevalence of sexual crimes is balanced, which this doesn't establish, it just establishes that male perpetration is massively underrecognised, which is undeniable. That's why they asked for female victimisation prevalence data. It is probably true that the prevelance is not trivial compared to that of women, (the CDC gave "over half of women vs almost a third of men" for unwanted sexual experiences…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/10/23 12:34 AM
-1

/thread
/r/PurplePillDebate30/10/23 12:24 AM
5

it's been this way since the mid 2010s. there's a disconnect between how you would guess people to behave based off the Internet and how people actually are IRL. If you spend time IRL you'll have a lot of very unpolished cringey gender/race takes that would get absolutely eviscerated on any remotely progressive space on Reddit and no-one gives a shit, (though I have had a few people immediately retract things they say because it could be construed as racist/sexist/body-shaming/etc., generally on…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/10/23 12:09 AM
2

half of the reason why i stopped using dating apps was that their profiles were usually basically blank and I had no idea what I was supposed to say. i doubt I, nor the people who I'm looking to attract, are these apps' intended audience.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/10/23 04:50 PM
16

Many people believe that as long as they are good people, they should be able to get dates. I'll agree with Proudvow that this is something I mainly see spelt out by BPers and particularly successful RPers. There is often an underlying assumption that if you "cannot get a date", you're doing something actively wrong to cause this "failure" and any resentment present necessarily caused this "failure" rather than the resentment being caused by the "failure". I don't really know why the BP often go…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/10/23 11:51 AM
51

I'm gonna be a contrarian here and say people would approach poster's issues differently if they met them IRL and talked through them. Behind a lot of incel-ish talk is a fair amount of genuine issues. I had a friend who started straight up incelposting (incel memes, meant literally, on socials) after getting rejected by another friend and people who would otherwise not give that kind of talk the time of day were "understanding". That sort of non-example aside, there's a human element IRL that t…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/10/23 05:57 PM
2

people who make ignorant rape-culturey comments about male rape victims, probably largely reactionary men sure. But the more clinical "rape needs penile penetration" (excluding most people who could be construed as a male victim of rape), "power imbalances make it different" and even essentially "he can just push her off/walk away" dressed up in very flowery academic vocabulary, much of that comes from certain academic feminists and feminist orgs. As much as people say rape laws are awful for ma…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/10/23 11:52 AM
3

nice one dude you've got it
/r/PurplePillDebate17/10/23 05:25 PM
7

Thanks for the response and sorry if the last bit was in any way antagonistic haha, for some reason I had guessed I'd get bad faith engagement. Unfortunately as an ignoramus I have no idea how to navigate the literature (especially weighing up studies with completely contradictory findings) and have been unable to find people who have been there & done that and have "it all figured out". I would guess even most researchers in the area aren't really at that point yet.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/10/23 01:21 PM
1

i have asked this elsewhere on the thread but do you have a suggestion as to why the victimisation of bisexual women is nearly double (well, 1.75x) that of heterosexual women despite both being primarily abused by men?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/10/23 01:07 PM
10

Opportunity to ask why people think the stats are like this, given most explanations of DV are very specific to male perpetration? Most people will just say "it comes from previous straight relationships" and move on, it's a rarity I see someone refer explicitly to the CDC number on this. If it's the case that most other studies support that lesbians mostly or almost exclusively suffered abuse in previous straight relationships, why does the CDC number differ so vastly? Is it methodological, def…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/10/23 12:11 PM
1

I never really know what "enforced monogamy" is. When I first read about the term, I assumed it was like that greentext fantasy where women would be "assigned" to men. Then I see people talk about the "right to sex", (again, I exclusively read critique of it and have never seen anyone actually suggest this is the case) and you would reasonably guess that there's a lot of people actually talking about this. But where are they? Who is out there arguing this aside from people confining themselves t…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/23 01:43 PM
1

"most men literally desire the enslavement of women. well they didn't say it exactly like that, but I filled in the blanks" usually. I don't think I have ever read someone seriously and literally saying they are entitled to sex, (probably happens on more extreme places) it's just been inferred from (sometimes very extreme and resentful) disappointment about a lack of sex or rejection, to very mixed correctness. Not really ever sure this is the most productive way to have this discussion.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/23 09:28 AM
2

it only really becomes a meaningfully bad thing when the dude is known as a player/fuckboy. by itself I don't think people care.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/10/23 05:53 PM
2

Rarely say this but honestly I think I agree with essentially everything you have said here and I don't have much to add. I think you have nailed it all and I will be looking out for your posts in the future.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/10/23 04:31 PM
2

Yea men need to do it but you need to recognise that women also reinforce patriarchy and part of that is them resisting men attempting to step outside their traditional roles This always make me wince, because while it is true, I just wish it didn't have to put like this. Because it feels into this adversarial framing and is likely to provoke a defensive response. I would rather we just understand what "women uphold patriarchy" too means. Personally I struggle in that I don't know what "have a d…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/10/23 02:37 PM
2

To be honest I might delete it lol, (I will load it onto a pastebin for others who wish to read it) but it encapsulates my whole frustration. The poster didn't even mention BDSM or even really say that sexual violence against men doesn't really happen, it's just an interpolation based off hundreds of other pointless diatribes I've engaged in. I kind of don't want to see their response as well since it will likely just be another lunch-break of ranting about gender issues. I am thinking I'm just …
/r/PurplePillDebate05/10/23 01:35 PM
4

Yep. I'm starting to think it's literally the same psychological mechanisms on both sides. Maybe this feeling personally attacked by bringing up these issues is something that's just natural and part of our internalised identification with our gender. The social context is often entirely different, but the reactions I see are the same. You might want to read this: https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/16zqi19/comment/k3keiv9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 as something …
/r/PurplePillDebate05/10/23 12:49 PM
6

You swear up and down that it's somehow women who have a problem with committing violence and sexual assault/rape against men Oh for fucks sake - these threads always come down to disinformation. A significant amount of sexual violence against men occurs from women. That's just something you'll have to find a way to cope with and integrate into your narrative. By some measures, it's the majority, (of the order of 70%+) but maybe it's like 30-40%. It's clear a lot of people feel the same way that…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/10/23 12:32 PM
3

Where I see resistance to men’s issues it’s either down to the replier being obviously just not reasonable at all I am not too sure. I have a very skewed view of these things because I try not to bother with very-low-quality stuff, but I have definitely read stuff like "sexual harassment of a man by a woman?? bro just walk away", people doing the whataboutism thing the exact other way (ie. "what about women" rather than "what about men", particularly about IPV and a compulsion to draw analogies …
/r/PurplePillDebate05/10/23 12:07 PM
4

There is market for an intermediate between MR and ML. This sub should be it, but all it is, is MR but perhaps more LGBT-inclusive, economically left and somewhat less misogynistic. It's top on my wishlist for Reddit gender conversation, but I am afraid much of the most knowledgeable men's advocates are pretty cemented in their anti-feminism and a certain subsection of feminists wholly reject the need for men's advocacy. I have considered creating one myself, but it would likely be overrun with …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/09/23 06:52 PM
1

You will absolutely not find the majority of users on ML calling these two things a myth. The exceptions to this generally do not go unchallenged and are generally challenged in a more intelligent way than on MR/here etc. As I said, certain feminist subs have decried MensLib for going in too hard on these issues (at least one poster I'm thinking of got into regular spats about the topic on ML, so they're not pulling it out of their ass).
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/09/23 12:40 PM
2

They also brought on a guy who didn't think that female-on-male domestic abuse was worth thinking about because male victims don't matter They chewed Chuck Derry up, though I remember being told he was invited by dubious circumstances (perhaps by someone who did agree with him, unclear).
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/09/23 12:39 PM
2

This has not been my experience from the profiles I've seen.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/09/23 05:37 PM
1

based
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/09/23 03:24 PM
-2

male domestic abuse victims, higher male suicide rates "That's a myth" Complete bullshit, these are some of the most common points of discussion on ML. There have been radfems decrying that ML leans "too much" into "MRA myths" surrounding these two topics. Detractors do exist but they do get pushback. I can tell from reading these comments that most people (notable exception of oncothrow) have not been on ML and are just speculating on its contents. I have never had posts deleted, been threatene…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/09/23 03:24 PM
5

As someone who has participated on MensLib probably more than other people here, there is a heavy intersection of the userbase with MR. Frequently I see it in people's post history. I do wonder what it's about, especially since I cannot imagine someone liking the rhetoric of both spaces, but I'm afraid to raise it in ML because I may trigger some Stalin-esque purge.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/09/23 03:19 PM
–

i presume they mean class as in classy not economic class
/r/PurplePillDebate23/08/23 05:01 PM
–

no clue who this person is but Wikipedia thinks "often punctuated by her distinctive high-pitched laugh" is relevant enough for the second sentence which is both amazing and also puts me off watching her videos.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/08/23 03:14 PM
–

at best this is just ragebait
/r/PurplePillDebate23/08/23 02:52 PM
1

2 is definitely a privacy violation. 1 is kinda just eh, whatever. 3 is a tactic of some rapists to try to establish with the victim that what happened "was not rape" and was just normal sex so I doubt that will help him at all. Even if she gives a positive response it doesn't really mean much, a lack thereof will risk escalation, and you don't want a guy who has just raped you and has tried to emotionally manipulate you into thinking it's not rape to be pissed off at you or think you might call…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/08/23 06:13 PM
1

(sorry, here from ML lol) Im dating the same type of women as before. I would suggest your entire issue is here. You have a group of women enthusiastic about one personality type, (to their own detriment I would guess) and you're surprised that they don't like an entirely opposing personality type, but this seems to make perfect sense. It seems a pretty common confusion that comes from homogenising genders, "why do men/women say x but then do y", it's very often different men/women saying x to t…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/23 11:51 AM
3

thank you, I'm here all night
/r/PurplePillDebate16/06/23 08:45 PM
9

I ain't reading all that. Happy for you though, or sorry that happened I ask "who hurt you" partially in jest but also because you're being weirdly antagonistic to this abstract dude, and it doesn't seem like he's done that much of a wrong. I was wondering if it's some personal experience you're projecting onto it or etc. idrk what else to say though, since this is significantly more mild and agreeable than your previous post. I think sometimes these things just fizzle out when there's unrequite…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/06/23 08:27 PM
14

who hurt you i also just don't believe someone would ever argue this or be this unashamedly inflammatory if genders were reversed.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/06/23 06:36 PM
1

I want to become well-read about male IPV. I am specifically looking for literature on the question of whether men who are victims of MTP suffer comparable mental and medical turmoil to men or women who are raped by men. I have the massive repository of papers but I don't really know how to systematically read through it all.
/r/Male_Studies15/06/23 09:02 AM
1

There are some people who I sit with whenever I see them, but when it's someone I only vaguely know it's tough. That said, the one time where I've stayed after everyone I knew left I had a great conversation with someone that lasted for another hour. I have this specific internal narrative that people are only friends with me because they're sorry for me, and that's probably the last barrier that will fall. I think I just need to keep at this, I've only recently been able to describe the underly…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/23 09:24 PM
1

Like if I'm in the lunch hall at university, I'll just sit by myself even if I know some of the people. It sounds ridiculous to spell out but I think the reason I do this is because I think people don't want me there and I'd be imposing myself on them. This is completely independent of how past interactions with them have gone, and I don't think this consciously this, I've had to think about why I do it.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/23 07:28 PM
1

i need to have less shame. my unconscious assumption is that my presence in places is undesirable
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/23 06:41 PM
3

I don't specifically call myself a feminist, but there's just not much to be gained by challenging stuff like this. Anti-feminists will lap up what you say as a reason to not take feminism seriously, and fellow feminists will think you're a covert anti-feminist looking to get a gotcha and/or looking to divert the conversation. (they may be right in the latter context-depending) In the end, no-one should live or die by any particular statistic, the point is that rape is vastly more common than so…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/23 04:36 PM
3

lmao life in prison for polygamy. do you mean polyamory or specifically polygamy?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/23 03:05 PM
1

sir this is a wendy's
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/23 01:53 PM
–

is a perfectly valid response that women can have towards a person for any reason. It's just preferences. .
/r/PurplePillDebate02/06/23 07:48 PM
–

oh i did not detect your sarcasm because that's something people unironically say lmao
/r/PurplePillDebate02/06/23 07:35 PM
–

pretty sure if I said "black people give me the ick like no other" people would want me to clarify that. especially since trans issues are so topical atm.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/06/23 07:28 PM
–

don’t associate any man that doesn’t have money isnt one of your brothers in middle school or something
/r/PurplePillDebate02/06/23 07:28 PM
–

oof better clarify this
/r/PurplePillDebate02/06/23 07:25 PM
–

almost certainly already exists. I thought pinkpillers would argue these two things wouldn't be the same anyway. (not to say they are, but it makes this post a bit confusing since it's often discussed how the impact of e.g. nude leaks are vastly disproportionate)
/r/PurplePillDebate02/06/23 05:19 PM
1

blackpill has more in common with blue pill. 👀👀👀👀👀
/r/PurplePillDebate01/06/23 02:12 PM
–

unironically if being popular means I have to dissolve my entire personality, I'd rather stay a freak
/r/PurplePillDebate30/05/23 11:16 AM
–

i wouldn't even want to look into a mirror while having sex nevermind wank to my own image
/r/PurplePillDebate28/05/23 09:39 PM
–

i wouldn't describe it as "narcissism" but tbqh all the women I've spoken intimately with feel exactly this way, like word for word lol.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/05/23 09:34 PM
–

Tell her where you stand and block or if you want to be indirect, give cold responses and take like a week to reply to further correspondence.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/05/23 09:32 PM
-1

Honestly I really struggle to see how Tate has appeal to dejected boys/men. He seems to appeal to "fratboy"-ish socially popular misogynists. (or "Rugby lads" in the UK, etc.) I would actually imagine that means a lot of them will have been tormented by people like Tate. (maybe this is just projection) I would think that inceldom and alt-right figures like NJF are much more appealing to that crowd specifically. Even JBP would seem to have more appeal. I'm clearly wrong in some way, because Tate …
/r/PurplePillDebate28/05/23 03:31 PM
1

yes, people aren't going to engage with actually complicated and nuanced extremism, (who has time for that?) they just want the stuff that's very cheap and easy to dunk on. It's why few people know a serious deal about the MRM despite being sure in that they have no valid points to make.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/05/23 03:27 PM
3

They don't say whether she actually demanded they do these things. They seemed to do it on their own accord after a woman joined. In any case this is only one person, I think people with massively incompatible personality aren't likely to stay. In that sense, I think this sort of thing is self-regulating provided some hoarde of outsider women doesn't come in and assume control of the club.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/05/23 10:24 AM
3

I think the third paragraph just threw me off whether you were talking about stereotyping or something intrinsic.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/05/23 10:12 AM
1

That feels like changing the question a bit. A lot of "male-coded" spaces have a surprising amount of women e.g. 4chan so stereotypes can be deceiving and just speak to societal attitudes on these things. A lot of "mostly male" things turn out to be more like 70:30 or 75:25 or so on. How often are you gonna see a guy being into bridgerton and kpop Idk, if you insert the word "gay" into this sentence, people's mind's will be in a much different place to thinking of a frat dude doing this.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/05/23 09:59 AM
-1

Because women’s interests are more diverse this doesn't sound true at all. I'd say most hobbies have fairly substantial male representation bar a few.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/05/23 09:48 AM
0

People miss the point of this. Often the women who come into said spaces have similar or compatible personality type (I mean this in an informal sense, not the personality test nonsense) to the men, otherwise they just won't come back.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/05/23 09:45 AM
1

Oh I read it now, sure.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/05/23 08:57 AM
1

I'm not sure how many women have a specific thing for uneven hair distribution? Would be great for me if some do.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/23 09:48 PM
2

fair enough, just thought wording it like "Most women's gendered expectations of men are toxic" is odd.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/23 08:00 PM
15

can you give an example of a gendered expectation that is not toxic?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/23 07:32 PM
1

based and egalitarian pilled
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/23 07:31 PM
–

I have been in the position of dunking hard on someone just to find out they are a 14 year old girl, felt like a misdemeanour of sorts.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/23 07:20 PM
–

alright you've convinced me, alternative gmail being created as we speak.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/23 06:39 PM
–

by the way, how is the Discord? I plan to join but I will probably create another Discord account to do so, (both for account safety, since Discord seems to ban every account associated with a banned server, and anonymity) wondering if it's worth. Edit: I am rpolthrow0009#6559 on there now.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/23 06:23 PM
–

third
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/23 06:18 PM
0

If there is anyone who the redpill will work on, lonely and weird guys isn't them. People will already be somewhat biased against them, as soon as something slightly misogynistic slips out, they're donezo. I've seen attractive and popular men concern troll over false allegations with surprisingly little backlash, I don't think I could ever get away with that. Nor would I want to. I would suggest that people who attribute success to the redpill are really seeing the success of confidence and brav…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/23 05:45 PM
2

glad to know I'm not the only one lol, it's a bit of an insecurity of mine.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/23 05:35 PM
3

My chest is almost completely hairless apart from some stray hairs, idk if that counts. I'm super hairy up to my hips, then virtually nothing, then hairy armpits and arms from just above my elbow. The lack of hair on my chest does make me feel a bit insecure and "boyish" sometimes. I have full facial hair too it's very odd. Maybe genetic peculiarity as someone said, I don't think it's low T in my case because of the hair elsewhere.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/23 05:31 PM
8

My attraction is concentrated on the face, I really am unpicky with respect to body as long as they're not extremely thin or extremely overweight. (throwing out all the stereotypical breast/ass size etc., I'm really not bothered at all. Height is a non-factor) And even on the face it feels concentrated on particular features, especially eyes, hair and overall face shape. Not very picky on noses, I don't think I mind some "traditionally unattractive" noses that people often want to change. Physic…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/23 04:37 PM
–

And yet sometimes it isn't - why? Really this just seems like a caricature, no relationship I've witnessed in real-life works in the black-and-white terms people talk about in spaces like this.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/23 12:37 PM
–

It's not sexist. The expectation that men should pick up the bill plays into very traditional ideas about gender, which is where the ties to sexism come in. Paying for a date is a nice thing to do but I don't think any gendered expectation to pay for the date should exist, because I don't think gendered expectations like that should exist at all. Personally I pick up the bill just because I like doing nice things for my potential partner, nothing to do with chivalry.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/23 12:32 PM
–

Men refusing to pay for dates - it’s not “alpha” - it’s pure insecurity that stems from jealousy. The man has the date, the woman has dressed up for him and taken him on his offer. I wouldn't want to date someone who feels they're doing me a favour like this. I want them to want to date me and if they want to look particularly nice for me, they can do that and I will be flattered. But tbqh if a girl came to a date in an oversized t-shirt and trackies without makeup because that's the way she dre…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/23 11:42 AM
–

If they had kids traumatised by the death of their dad... I don't think I would want that burden. I would happily support a close friend who was in the aftermath of that situation with whatever they needed, (emotional/financial if I had the means) but being their kid's "new dad" would be too much. Maybe if they were a baby at the time their dad died I'd be more comfortable? But if they were like 8 and saw their dad every day up until that point... I would feel like I'm imposing myself on their l…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/05/23 11:17 AM
–

why?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/05/23 09:50 AM
–

How is this a comparison? Pegging is not inherently non-consensual/dangerous
/r/PurplePillDebate26/05/23 09:00 AM
–

It's like a pink-blackpill lol, basically pure fatalism. Even if things were better they'd find a way to be actually just as bad if not worse.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/23 11:09 PM
–

This doesn't mean women enjoy rape, it's usually the idea of being overpowered that's at the core of it. It should ideally happen in the context of a proper BDSM dynamic rather than ad-hoc-ed with no negotiation. People who aren't savvy to BDSM typically find this fantasy very weird in themselves and shrouded in cognitive dissonance. ("I don't actually want to be raped but I find the abstract thought of being raped hot" is more or less the spirit of what a friend said to me, they didn't really h…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/23 11:02 PM
–

Not sure what to say. People naturally care about bad behaviour when it hurts them. This doesn't always occur in abusive relationship/friendship dynamics because people rationalise their bad treatment as "not a big deal"/their fault/etc. or are even unaware that they are being mistreated. If they saw said behaviour in a more clinical less emotionally-charged context (or even just if a friend described it to them) they could probably recognise that it is bad.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/23 10:48 PM
–

Some kind of social dominance/assertiveness mechanism probably, I'm not sure if it's conscious. There's this suggestion that women speak in a higher pitch when talking to attractive men as well. Just seems to be one of those weird human things.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/23 10:45 PM
–

Disagree. Getting away with bad behaviour to a certain extent doesn't mean people just don't care about bad behaviour.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/23 10:42 PM
–

I disagree with the spirit of this, but I would say that social status is often used (not always reliably) as a proxy for a good personality or good person. We are far more trusting of "odd" people who have huge friendship circles and a lot of social capital than "weird" people that keep to themselves and have few friends. The former type of person would have an easier job getting away with the same bad behaviour - indeed the former may have dozens of people coming out to bat for them against ac…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/05/23 10:38 PM
1

The internet has exacerbated this for sure. Not sure, people say this but my dad didn't have the Internet at my age and was even more isolated because of it. (I can't imagine what it'd be like sitting in my room all day without the Internet, would basically just play video games and watch TV lol, which is what he did) All of my romantic interests and a decent proportion of my close friendships started online, even if they're in my local area, then moved offline.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 11:13 AM
2

I'm pretty sure they're using "staged rape" for consensual non-consent, and this fails on the first word.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/05/23 10:17 AM
1

It's weirder than that - there are some people who are quieter than me in these events who externally seem to have larger social networks. Don't know what's up with that. I wouldn't claim I'm the only one in this position anyway. I'm quite eccentric and an acquired taste in some respects, I think. I've had some people initially dislike me then warm up to me. Like earlier in the post you talk about getting actual 0 social interaction, as in anyone you even try to talk to literally just walks away…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 09:17 PM
1

I feel awkward doing that. I kind of rely on other people to initiate things unless we have a precedent of doing something. (like if I often meet someone to play video games I can initiate that) They might be quite a prominent figure in my mind but to them I might just be a guy that they see every few weeks. I have been invited to house parties and such before. Not so much since I recently moved for gradschool. (here it's just been people going somewhere after a meetup and I tag along) Nothing t…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 05:55 PM
2

Yes, I'm really sorry this happened to you. I'm glad no serious damage was done. They shouldn't have sprung it on you without any discussion beforehand, sober discussion (when endorphins are flying) is absolutely 100% essential. To be clear, if you don't usually do anything kinky and they want to, it's their responsibility to open up that dialogue and it was their fault this happened.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 05:33 PM
–

Not yours, theirs. Nothing wrong with what you said. Indeed the other poster seems to mod anti-kink/anti-porn subs. Could've just looked at their profile but their wording and point was very suggestive in itself.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 05:30 PM
2

Would you agree if I said that this man-hating is mainly performative? That's my prevailing theory. Obviously it still has some implications on their personality.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 04:47 PM
2

Saying "touch grass" doesn't always mean "touch grass". Does this mean I've been going to the park on a daily basis to touch grass for nothing? I'll add that my problem is although I can go to meetups and have a laugh, they never develop into friendships that extend past further meetups and I don't feel like I get good connections.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 03:13 PM
1

I'm not sure if it would be a complete dealbreaker, but it would be something that'd cause me a lot of stress and upset, and I would be worried that if I do something to upset them it will aggravate it somehow. I've dated someone with disordered eating, but not to a life/health-threatening extent and she was still a pretty normal weight, so I didn't feel quite the same. (as awful as that is to say) I felt bad because her BMI was (by several units) higher than mine despite restricted eating somet…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 12:07 PM
3

(writing this post on the basis that you are anti-BDSM, which is how I read your post, you word things identically to how anti-BDSM people do) BDSM is a thing that people can practice safely and consensually. Two things are pretty similar when you deliberately strip those things of everything that makes them different. How do you account for the fact that women can enjoy rapeplay but not like getting raped, when these are presumably essentially the same thing in your eyes? (hint: one happens, or…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 11:36 AM
1

I guess it depends why they don't want to do it. If they don't want to do it because they are very much not into it and it would make them feel uncomfortable, I don't think people should have a problem with that. If they don't want to do it because they fear the consequences or would feel unsafe, and they're the ones pushing it on you, then yeah sure. I think you could say in that situation that they're being unfair/possibly abusive in pushing you into a situation that they would feel unsafe in.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 10:41 AM
2

If you can't take it don't dish it out Ehh, unless they acted offended I don't think this can be said. You have people who are basically just doms, you have people who are basically just subs, you have switches, typically this is tied into their personality somehow. People can be any three of these, wanting to do something to a partner doesn't mean you have to also want the opposite. (in fact you don't have to do anything) That said anyone who does this without prior thorough discussion/suggesti…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 10:30 AM
3

this is assault OP, sorry to hear about it. In general (since this will become a more general talk about choking) I "choke" people during sex but I don't actually put any serious pressure, just having my hands firmly on their neck or restraining their movement seems to basically do the job since they still get the feeling of being overpowered. Actually strangling someone is extremely dangerous and you need to be very careful with it if you really want to do it. These things shouldn't be introduc…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/05/23 10:25 AM
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I'm intimately familiar with all this (at least to the level that poster is, it's rare to see people who are actually well-read in the literature and I'm certainly not) and I know the 12-month estimate on that CDC report was a bit strange. I think it's counterproductive to die on the hill of a particular statistic, (especially since valid criticism has been levelled at the CDC's methodology) because people currently don't believe that men make any significant proportion of rape victims and the f…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/23 08:05 PM
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Actual real rape is very rare, so don't pretend as if it was some common thing all women go through What is "actual real rape"? Additionally, men are raped at surprisingly comparable numbers This is true, but you can't have your cake and eat it too - you can't declare rape a "very rare" thing then return to those definitions that you believe to produce overinflated stats for the rape of women when it's convenient. (especially since MTP incidents often do not involve the levels of physical violen…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/23 05:57 PM
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Nope, men don’t hate fat women lol you don't have to contradict everything people you disagree with say.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/23 05:50 PM
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This is a website where seemingly half of the men unironically have their cock as their profile picture. It amazes me that women go on there twice, it seems awful for them and overflowing with sexual harassers.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/23 05:48 PM
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Men have a higher chance of getting physically assaulted or to experience violence and yet you don't see men crying about being afraid to walk the streets You've shifted the goalposts a bit from sexual/intimate partner violence to street violence. This is basically a consequence of social conditioning. You could argue it's to some extent natural, since a lot of women are weaker than the average man, but even those who couldn't reasonably defend themselves fear getting assaulted a lot less. (beca…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/23 05:41 PM
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Still much better than being sexually worthless and invisible Are you saying you'd rather be raped than "sexually worthless"? That stat is false, just like most others about sexual harassment Even if it were 1 in 100, that's still like 2 million women in the US, so this dismissiveness is unwarranted.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/23 05:37 PM
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.1% of men is not .1% of messages.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/05/23 04:53 PM
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she irritates me and I don't even know her. This would be fun if it were done in a quirky unserious way, an actual serious job application type thing would be too much.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/23 01:22 PM
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Awful way to view a relationship. I'm not a product that you're viewing and deciding whether to purchase, (or rent would be a better analogy here, I guess) I'm another person who I hope you're looking to form a close emotional bond with. The experiences coming from that bond is what I'm bringing to the table. Unless they're in poverty/homeless (in which case I'd be worried about creating a power dynamic), they shouldn't be thinking about anything material at this point.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/05/23 12:35 PM
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even as a guy daily or multiple times per day sounds like a lot
/r/PurplePillDebate15/05/23 11:09 PM
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Police killings? Transphobia? (essentially) I think you will struggle if you don't consider the role of gender in the treatment of black and other minority men, even if you just consider black masculinity as posing a threat to white masculinity or something like that.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/05/23 08:20 PM
3

no, I don't let my hobbies make me neglect people in my life, which is the only feasible problem here. If a partner wants me to stop a hobby just because they don't like it I will insist that I will not, and if they walk off then that's that I guess.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/23 11:07 PM
1

I was more thinking of it as a phrase coming up during negotiation. (idk why the phrase would be a problem in that setting, but it's hard to know what people might have a problem with) I wouldn't want to introduce anything undiscussed once sex is already happening.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/23 06:18 PM
3

right, that definitely wasn't what I was thinking of so ig that's good. (that I wouldn't make someone feel uncomfortable by saying that)
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/23 06:04 PM
2

Are you saying this specifically about people who say "We won't do anything you don't want to", or this a more general point about non-respect of consent? I would be concerned if it were the former since I would make reassurances like this in even stronger terms & if would wonder what I should say instead.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/23 04:54 PM
1

Women predators are the exceptions that prove the rule I really don't intend to make this sort of strong point lol, (esp as I've spoken to some victims of female predators) I only really intend to talk about perceptions and what the social context is. Creepy just isn't a label that gets applied to women, in the same way slut doesn't get applied to men, even if they behave similarly. (you get "fuckboy" which usually implies some kind of harmful behaviour over just promiscuity) Weird women are typ…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/23 03:23 PM
2

Taken to automod. I will just throw this out there: "creep" as applied to a person is usually something just applied to men as far as RL is concerned. When you think "creepy woman", you think of a ghostly figure in a horror movie, not a real-life predator. You can call women a creep, but it has no cultural/gendered potency at all and will seem unusual because we just don't often think of women as creeps (even if her behaviour would make her "creepy" if she were a man). The label more likely used…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/23 12:48 PM
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people shouldn't have any medical procedures done to them as babies or young children unless it's deemed medically necessary. (not really as simple as banning it at these ages since wherever you place the minimum age there'll still be social pressure to do so. I think like 12 or 13 would be a sensible age in my mind with that caveat) It's not a very typical thing in my country unless your family is religious.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/23 02:36 PM
1

Well the emphasis is on "unmanaged" and incapacity to consent. This can be caused by mental health issues, but is far from necessitated by it.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/23 04:05 PM
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So you're basically just saying two women that are similarly attractive? Most people will have more factors than that.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/23 10:53 PM
0

I mean someone is free not to want black neighbors. Does this mean they ought not to be judged for it?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/23 10:51 PM
6

Sure, but people can have their own opinions on your and other people's actions even if they are not illegal.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/23 09:47 PM
11

I mean, say a 50 year old dude tries to date someone fresh out of high school, do you think their life experience and maturity can be compared? Do you think this might impact their relationship dynamic at all?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/23 08:48 PM
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I agree that people sometimes obsess over raw numbers, (e.g. 19 year olds with 17 year olds, there could reasonably be no power dynamic there) but I do think the underlying concern is valid.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/23 08:25 PM
4

From context I would doubt these mental illnesses are unmanaged, that they impedes or destroy their ability to consent, that it would create a certain power dynamic, etc. Please do give an example. Mental disabilities I am less sure about, but we already have statutory rape laws to remove the question of morality from that situation.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/23 08:21 PM
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Do people really disagree with this? If someone has unmanaged psychosis and struggles to manage their day-to-day affairs, they're not in a fit state to e.g. consent to sex. A more common example would be if someone has depression they might become emotionally reliant on their partner, and this creates a power dynamic where one partner (whether they like it or not) is in a prime position to emotionally abuse the other. Is this something you see denied?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/23 07:38 PM
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bingo
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/23 07:27 PM
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Are you really ever faced with two entirely interchangeable people like that...? I don't mean to give too much credit to the idea of "bodycount", but vast differences is going to suggest different life experience or personality.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/23 07:24 PM
1

(sorry if it sounded vaguely irritated lol) The thing I want to capture is how much they can assimilate among neurotypical people, and "low support needs" doesn't do much to that end.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/23 01:55 PM
1

Could you expand? It's not something that really gels with traditional gender stereotypes since the woman has essentially taken the reigns here, and the man is trying to appease her.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/23 10:44 AM
2

Imagine dating a girl, then she cheats on you with a guy 6 years younger who is still underage who sells heroin i stg the things I read on Reddit. then SUGGESTING AN OPEN RELATIONSHIP just to keep her I've done exactly this. The relationship was masking my poor mental health & I was too dependent on her for happiness so if she went, I'd have nothing. I definitely understand what went wrong here, though the circumstances weren't so extreme. My ex just fell out of love for me. It's not really clea…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/23 10:43 AM
1

He was going to fight the other guy the next day but they both chickened out Oh yikes, "toxic masculinity" in the most literal sense. Best he did "wimp out" though, people get killed in that sort of situation. But still taking someone back in those circumstances, I wouldn't lose respect for them per se, but they definitely have issues that they need to sort out. (I wouldn't judge someone who lets people walk over them, I would assume it's some kind of self-esteem thing)
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/23 10:36 AM
2

I think this is a bit unsympathetic. It's one thing to say in the abstract that you'd immediately dump a cheater, it's another to actually try to work your way through their emotional manipulation and gather the confidence and conviction to walk away. (after all, things are better now, we've made up, she won't do it again surely? You feel like you're the one making the problem.)
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/23 10:23 AM
3

I feel like valid points like this (that some men face negative consequences for opening up) get destroyed by hyperbole. I don't see how any reasonable discussion can be had when we're talking about most or essentially all.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/23 10:20 AM
1

enlightened society still does this We are certainly far from an "enlightened society". Even worse is that I suspect autism is preventable Pfft. Do you say this out of dislike for the medical establishment or because you have an actual reasoned objection? Also what do you say about cases of autism with profound intellectual and social disability evident from birth? I think you're thinking about "high-functioning" (if someone wants to take issue with this word: pls tell me what I should say inste…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/23 09:17 AM
1

What does "Autism I suspect is caused by bullying" mean lol. I dunno, as hard as it sounds I suspect bullying in humans is the same as it is in the animal world; weaker members of the species are basically being told that they're not fit enough to survive. This is my one blackpill belief ngl. It doesn't mean we can't mitigate the effects of ableism and make it socially unacceptable to be ableist, even if it is "natural", though.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/23 07:54 AM
10

Wow a not-dismissive comment, +1. I think you've nailed it.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/23 07:52 AM
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I say this purely descriptively: people don't care. Also people in these comments (notably bar eefr) seem to be reading this as intellectually or "severely" disabled people. There is probably a strong "high-functioning" autistic representation here.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/05/23 07:50 AM
2

No. I value intimacy and emotional connection above sex. I would be happy to wait several months or more. If we were not having sex indefinitely, or she wanted to wait until marriage, we may have fundamental incompatibilities. It would not be because "I can't wait". There are RPers here which seem to expect women to sleep with them after one or two dates, which makes it clear where their head is and how superficial they are.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/23 08:32 PM
7

for being deceptive This is almost definitely true to an extent. Abusers know how to appear "normal enough" to reel people in. Their true nature then seeps in over time. If an abuser was obviously a piece of shit and made no effort to hide their actions, they would have a much harder time accessing people.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/23 06:19 PM
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I am terrified of normal & neurotypical people, if this helps at all with your mental image.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/23 06:10 PM
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It’s funny how bloopers will say, “these guys just need to go outside and observe couples to know they’re wrong” when doing that does absolutely nothing to prove or disprove red pill believes. You’ll never get the full insight of a woman’s sex life or a man’s sex life unless you’re in close proximity of them for a while like living with them for years. Never. I have plenty of female friends, I barely know the full extent of their sex lives and repeatedly at astounded at their opportunities and e…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/23 05:05 PM
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Tbf it's the one that makes her look the best.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/23 02:00 PM
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let him grill (in zzz land)
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/23 01:59 PM
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And at worst?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/23 01:26 PM
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can't breathe
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/23 12:57 PM
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What cons are there here?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/23 11:00 AM
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I think what I said applies with before dating as well. In the second case a lot of people won't even bother trying to date that person because other options would be less "frightening". I would still suggest this is a negative character trait.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/23 10:47 AM
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Well sure, someone's less likely to be "put off" you if they have an established emotional connection. But it's still a pretty shitty thing, your partner (or prospective partner) has a medical condition that you might just find "a bit gross". You're not taking on any care responsibilities by getting with them, it doesn't fundamentally change how you would interact with them day-to-day. Wouldn't have a very high opinion of someone doing this, even if they did claim it was just an ick they couldn'…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/23 10:34 AM
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is there a meaningful difference between talking about chads and alphas? Genuine question. I've always read them as interchangeable. (I've had exposure to incels but pillers less so)
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/23 10:21 AM
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I would feel gross even asking, I would expect a very negative reaction from them. Even asking says a lot about you and what you care about. What matters is how you get on now rather than what they did in the past. Personally it doesn't matter to me, if anything I would prefer them to be more experienced than I am. In a way, I kind of expect a lot of women that are attracted to me will be? I can't quite articulate why that's the case. (I always imagine myself with a far more outgoing partner and…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/23 10:19 AM
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I feel like some people are too eager to stretch "I personally wouldn't mind" to "I can't imagine that a woman would mind" or even "no, you're worrying about nothing, no woman would mind". But I don't think this is fatal at all, anyone worth his time is going to be understanding to any medical conditions which require no more than tolerance on their part. If not, fuck em, why would you want to be with someone like that in the first place? Easy to say, but do you really want someone that would di…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/05/23 09:56 AM
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Census lmao. "yeah I'm a Nazi what about it" has it occurred to you that people can obscure their political beliefs extremely easily? People manage to hide association with far-right movements their entire lives.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/23 08:00 PM
3

Yeah I would prefer we were less twitchy around these things. But the problem is that the variability hypothesis is often used to "explain" these disparities and then say "well that's just how it is, moving on", despite there being clear social issues that need to be addressed. The argument about race and intelligence is used to argue against efforts to help e.g. black people within education. It becomes very sinister very quickly and is often given in bad faith, hence you get the extreme reacti…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/23 04:13 PM
4

Men and women are very different from each other, much of this being due to hormones, chromosomes, and brain anatomy. It isn’t all about toxic masculinity, socialization, and culture. This leads to different behaviors, motivations, preferences, and historic outcomes. Blues often seem to operate under the assumption that most behavior is NOT innate when we know much of it is. I have a counterpoint to this. Can you give an example where the proposed solution to a problem would be different based o…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/23 03:52 PM
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but the MRA subreddit is about as tame as it gets It's pretty bad but yeah, a direct "equivalent" to a lot of female subs would be essentially an incel space, and a fairly extreme one. There's an obvious reason for this though, the rhetoric just isn't as potent and isn't as threatening to society. People are going to give more leeway to black people talking about race than white people, and for good and obvious reason, and that attitude carries over here. The complicated things about gender is t…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/23 10:09 AM
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Pointing out relative goodness may appear to be suggesting absolute goodness, is probably why.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/23 12:18 AM
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Just because the state of society is relatively excellent does not mean it is any good. We still have a ways to go, and I think we're still in a dark ages of sort (I guess this will be the case forever until we really do max out human capability or let AI surpass it) that will be viewed in 50 years just as the 1960s are now.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/23 11:49 PM
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i indeed don't have a backbone, but I wouldn't call myself a "white knight". MensLib isn't as bad as MRAs say, generally. There's a lot of people there who are as people say, but some of the best gender conversation I've had has been on there. (stiff competition, granted /s)
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/23 11:44 PM
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I mean it's something that makes sense from a purely social constructionist perspective as well, in-group biases coming at least partially from people bonding over and organising based on some kind of common experience.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/23 11:41 PM
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Other than the "s" word I've also heard pickme used for men.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/23 07:03 PM
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I genuinely think many men in the manosphere autistic I take this as just obvious lol. People who deny the overwhelming (definitely well into the double digits) autistic representation in the manosphere, MRM, 4chan, are typically the kind of person to struggle with the idea that a group they want to advocate for has a lot of Very Bad People in it, probably because their mind works in very binary ways.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/23 07:00 PM
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Yeah you've got it keep it up
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/23 06:36 PM
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low effort, (whichever side you're coming from) try harder.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/23 05:19 PM
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AD/BL ashamedly read this ab/dl
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/23 05:13 PM
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Of course it does. Don't you remember in the 2008 primary how the media was asking if Obama was "black enough" for black voters? I covered this with: "Interior forces wrt race might include black people shaming non-conforming black people for being "too white". (see "coconut", "oreo" etc.) I think one could easily describe such behaviour as toxic". I really don't see how this compares so directly to toxic masculinity. People justify slurs against black people with the exact same reasoning. It's …
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/23 08:22 PM
1

You're still anchored to your own emotions and life experience. You can probably relate there because it's not that far from your sphere of personal experience. Given a situation foreign enough though, people struggle, and this becomes evident in the discussion of a lot of social problems. Not to say you can't push past this struggle, but it seems that people are far too happy to just throw their arms up in the air and give up or just ignore the problem.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/23 08:14 PM
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These aren't the same thing intuitively, but I might have some trouble putting into words as to why. First of all "masculinity" and "femininity" aren't necessary essences of men and women. They are merely a caricature of how men and women are seemingly ought to behave in society. I like to distinguish "masculinity" and "manness" (one, when not talking about literal physical features, is talking about how well someone aligns with the social expectations associated to men, and the other is the fac…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/23 06:15 PM
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I don't understand why you think "toxic masculinity" slurs masculinity. Does the phrase "toxic women" or "toxic men" slur the group of women or men? The word in front is the thing that would determine whether the group is being slurred. (e.g. "slutty woman", "fragile man" are gendered slurs since they invoke gender norms)
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/23 05:43 PM
1

Apparently had internal conflict for months, decided to break up with me, bottled it and took it back, we stayed together for another unhappy few months, she found someone new and broke it off.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/23 03:14 PM
0

I see argument that "fragile masculinity" is a gendered slur, (given that "fragile" is something that traditional gender norms say men should not be) but not that "toxic masculinity" is. "Toxic" is not really a word that invokes gender norms at all.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/05/23 09:41 AM
6

lmao nw, I assumed it was a leading question. You can use a vibrator on a dick as well
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 10:54 PM
6

sometimes I use to to stimulate him. ??????? men can use vibrators and dildos in extremely obvious ways.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 10:30 PM
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Fuck, I meant to say "wouldn't". I was confused why you responded with this.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 09:18 PM
5

This isn't what the OP is talking about. The OP thinks all his female friends and partners are lying to him because he fears they'll think he'll do something bad to them if not, essentially. Shoots far beyond "leading people on" right into orbit. OP needs psychiatric help as they've demonstrated in this thread.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 08:34 PM
4

ok
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 08:30 PM
7

Honestly I just think you need to see a therapist ngl. I don't even think you're a bad person, I think you've just snapped.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 08:20 PM
8

Suggesting you are socially anxious and/or autistic is not an insult. Both of these two things are pretty relevant and aren't accusations of wrongdoing on your part, it's to help us understand your situation better.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 08:11 PM
3

Right. I really don't know what you're expecting me to respond to this.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 07:47 PM
2

Ok, well, you should still respond to that sort of thing in a compassionate understanding way. It's really hard to say what it might have been, it's clear this is something that has stuck in your mind. But you sound very conscientious, and you could bring this up to partners as a point of anxiety for you. (but being anxious about every single one of your actions because you're scared you've communicated that you'll murder her... yeah you definitely need that dealt with) They should understand an…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 07:42 PM
4

Dude's had the entirety of FDS beamed directly into his brain.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 07:27 PM
5

Thinking if that makes me want to hang myself Bro if you're saying this over a years-old memory, you need help. I'm not saying this in a dismissive way, I also get very socially anxious too, know exactly what you're feeling, and have encountered people online that are on similar trajectories. That's one incident, and she may have suffered sexual assault or rape previously (or had friends that have) and hence developed this reaction. The response would be to reassure her that you won't do, and wo…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 07:26 PM
7

been told this, experienced it Examples? Or better yet I should just never speak to women because you're all just going to tell me the exact same thing "this is above my pay grade so shut up and go to therapy" Despite being pretty blue-pilled, I honestly think if someone properly internalises a lot of progressive messaging in the precise hyperbolised form it's often given, they will end up giving themselves debilitating social anxiety and psychological problems. You're not the first one I've kno…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 07:13 PM
15

Question: have you read this on Reddit, or have people told you this? Have you upset/offended women in the past over your behaviour, to your knowledge? It sounds like you have developed some pretty debilitating social anxiety and you should see a professional for that. This amount of care is not healthy and may actually make women uncomfortable or fearful in itself by making you act very weird and twitchy.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 07:03 PM
2

Basic social cues. I find it pretty easy to understand when another person is just timidly going along with what I want and when they're enthusiastic. Now apply that to sex. I don't think this really matches to what the OP said. They're talking about women that are seemingly acting normally, but they've convinced themselves that they are only acting normally because if they don't, they think he might assault them or otherwise act extremely negatively. In their mind, she is suppressing any usual …
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 06:57 PM
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Is that news to you or something? If you're talking about outside of dating, which I assumed we were, yes tbh. Never heard of people unable to make friends due to being too short. Bullying, sure.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 06:19 PM
3

Toxic masculinity is used to specifically highlight the influence of gender norms, just writing it all down to "general toxicity" misses the point. I have also rarely if ever heard the phrase "toxic femininity" outside of reaction to the term "toxic masculinity". I'm personally not a fan of either term as terms, but don't really object to the concept behind the term.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 06:05 PM
1

Well I don't see much reason tbh. You acknowledge that the two scenarios are fundamentally different, but your gut reaction is that it makes you somehow inferior to the other guys. This is something worth mulling over. Also, people change. What if her attitudes on casual sex changed in her early 20s, and you happen to be dating her several years later. Are you going to hold that against her?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 06:03 PM
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Text doesn't capture my tone, (I type by talking aloud in my head so I sometimes miss this) I meant "you can disagree if you want, but I don't think this is correct". This is a debate sub, you are free to provide reasons why you disagree and I will have a read of them.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 04:52 PM
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The one time a girl used a pick-up line on Tinder on me she had my attention immediately, better than any I've ever come up with and tied in with my bio perfectly. Then she didn't reply when I replied back. Redpillers come forth with your "women ☕" please and thank you.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 04:41 PM
–

Still shows it’s an op problem though. Not really in the same sense that was implied, tbf had the other poster suggested this I would have read their post completely differently.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 04:34 PM
12

Really, they shouldn't ask if they are in a relationship, they should define what a "relationship" means for the researchers, and ask questions to judge people against that criteria and decide whether someone's arrangements constitute a relationship for the purposes of their study. I haven't looked at the methodology of this study, (though the OP didn't link it so I'd have to find it) but this is a similar thing researchers do for domestic violence/rape and such. (if a researcher judging whether…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 04:20 PM
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The tone of "but doesnt care how he can barely function like an adult" rubbed me the wrong way when I read it in my head. Perhaps it's just me. I wouldn't want to talk that way about deficits caused by disability.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 02:50 PM
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Are shy people shy with each-other? Surely not in the same way they are to strangers? Being afraid of confrontation in a relationship might be a consequence but idk if it's directly shyness.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 02:45 PM
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Yeah that would be a far better example. I just wasn't really comfortable with the use of mental illness/disability as an example of that. I don't think we disagree on the core point, "not having a gf" is usually just the symptom of a problem if it's not just caused by life circumstance. (by that I just mean being too busy or whatever)
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 02:38 PM
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That’s more so because the guys whining about not getting a date aren’t aware how lacking their life is. People are assuming these guys are just really shy, not that there’s fundamental problems I do agree with this. People think their problem is with getting a date, but it's very often a much more global social difficulty when we talk about incels and adjacent people. People have this very measurable, culturally-instilled goal, of getting a life partner and focus on that when their inability to…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 02:27 PM
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???? Do you not believe that some people just don't get along, that some of these clubs that can be cliquey and possibly have well-established friendship circles? Maybe the OP thinks it's "hatred", but really it was just a lack of spark or indifference that they internalised as a sign of dislike? It honestly feels like people's response to something that doesn't match with their life experience is denial, which is essentially to give up.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 02:22 PM
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You can disagree. But fundamentally what we're looking at here isn't "short guys getting socially excluded for being short", it's "short guys who are socially maladapted or have social difficulties getting socially excluded for being that way, incidentally having nothing to do with them being short". I've seen women sit on the side of meetups and struggle to engage just as guys do. I don't think it's weird at all. You can argue there's fewer of these women. Maybe? But them being women doesn't au…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 01:42 PM
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Maybe OP probably hasn't found "their people" (sometimes you just don't click with certain people) or isn't giving it enough time for friendships to form before suggesting group activities, maybe it comes off as overbearing. (just consistently showing up to meetups can work sometimes) Maybe the groups he went along to were very well-established, and from their view it's a stranger that has barged into a friendship group. I don't know. Sorry if the response was a bit snappy, but this is an attitu…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 01:40 PM
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pfffffffft You can just say you can't relate to something without concluding that the OP is somehow misrepresenting their experience. I'm not a fan of how quickly people throw their arms up and say "well it works for me, idk what to say, sucks for you I guess".
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 01:31 PM
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Yeah, successful people generally don't know what makes them successful. They just think "bro just go outside and talk to people, friends will fall onto your lap". It isn't really that easy. Disagree that it's "attractive men" or "all women", it's a matter of social able people not understanding what it's like to be not as socially able. To piss off the redpillers, a socially deficient woman would also have these issues.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 01:27 PM
1

I think most of the MRA subs count as feminist subs MensRights can be pretty misogynistic. LWMA just seemed anti-feminist to an unproductive extent. I remember basically saying NAFALT and the reception to it got increasingly worse, it definitely has declined. I have spoken to other posters (MensLib exiles that came to LWMA and since left) that felt the same. I think a feminist would struggle when they're told they're inherently bigoted for identifying as feminists and should instead identify as …
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 11:06 AM
0

I'm sorry but I still don't really understand, I'm guessing it's just a gut reaction and not something based in reason? Had they hooked up with her, got intimate but she didn't want to have sex, and then found out that a few days prior she had sex with someone else in a ONS, yeah I guess I can see why someone would be upset. (though she still won't have done anything wrong) But this? I don't see it. You already accept that ONSs and sex on dates are different, and to say waiting 3 dates (I don't …
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 10:51 AM
1

Yeah perhaps above not finding them attractive, I would be concerned about their mental readiness to be in a relationship. I'd want them to focus on getting better on that rather than stressing about any relationship stuff.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/05/23 10:46 AM
1

They had an AMA from a feminist one time who un-ironically blamed domestic violence of "the patriarchy" Uh it's probably the one I just linked lol. I don't think he used the word "patriarchy" but he invoked the concept. You might have forgotten me or our paths never crossed, but I used to post there pretty consistently for a year or so. I dipped out of LWMA when the anti-feminist current became a bit too overwhelming (and a mod, obviously not you, said that feminism was intrinsically bigoted, th…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/23 09:26 PM
2

+1 I know people talk about times when an abusive ex-bf might call his ex-gf crazy for bringing up genuine concerns, sure. But it becomes a problem when this is the reaction to people calling their ex crazy, and I've seen some people say they no longer believe men calling their ex "crazy" or even "abusive", which is horrible. There needs to be some balance and you should hear victims out before making judgements. (and ideally suspend judgement if you have incomplete information) As someone else …
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/23 08:23 PM
1

Fair enough.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/23 08:19 PM
1

What does BSC mean? (I come from "normal" gender conversations and haven't really been exposed to TRP/TBP stuff) I'm not sure about overwhelming majority, but I'm sure the proportion is less than many MRAs/redpillers want to think.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/23 07:43 PM
1

I guess you contend the scale of this thought among feminists? That's fair, I don't know how to quantify it myself so I don't. I try to judge individuals on their merits. There are plenty of progressives I know that would be appalled by all this.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/23 06:59 PM
2

I also misunderstood from the poster meant. I think they mean start by looking at the case of Erin Pizzey, who lost respect among feminists because of her advocacy for male victims. She has effectively become an anti-feminist in the meantime however and has associated herself with some unpleasant people. (including some conference associated with Stefan Molyneux?)
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/23 06:51 PM
1

"Only men can be abusers" is rare, but you see the notion that male victims of abuse are typically the primary abusers (see talk around "gender symmetry" or the existence/non-existence of bidirectional abuse) and that men's abuse by women is incomparable to that of women by men due to the underlying patriarchal power dynamics. I don't seriously distinguish the two, I rarely see this coupled with serious advocacy for male victims. This is a good example coming from a DV worker: https://np.reddit.…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/23 06:43 PM
-1

I'm not a mind-reader, and I can also only give takes based on what you've written. And I don't think she did anything wrong really. All she did was tell you about having sex on a one-night stand, and you were upset because you were dating her (so already a completely different configuration) and she waited until the third date. (I don't know if you're expecting sex on the first or second date? This seems like an unfair expectation) This just doesn't track for me. Did she even say how long ago t…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/23 06:33 PM
1

No clue - the first thing I'd reach for is that she might be happy to have sex with strangers with no emotional bond present, but when it comes to someone they want a relationship with, they want to wait until mutual trust and feelings have built. Maybe they view sex on one night stands as just pleasure, and sex within relationships as more of a thing for deep emotional connection. Haven't the foggiest, I don't think she deserves this malice attached to her just from what you've written. I had p…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/23 06:14 PM
0

I don't think it is. Once she meets a 10/10 guy this will all be thrown out of the window, reason being that she can't afford to lose him to somebody who does put out. I don't see how her feeling pressured to have sex early is actually a counter to what I said, having said "could want to wait" not "will wait". I should make it very clear that when this happens, it's a bad thing and not what the woman would want to do. Neither women nor men should feel pressured into having sex for fear of losing…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/23 04:47 PM
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Uh no? You say choose to be an outcast, deal with the consequences of being cast out. But this assumes, if indirectly, that someone's casting out is a just act, and what is worthy of attention is their reaction to this act rather than the reasons for it. I'm giving obvious counterexamples where people are cast out unjustly. I'm not really even thinking of manosphere men at this point.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/23 04:43 PM
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But they're choosing to come out and be an outcast. They could alternatively not do that, and not be an outcast. This isn't off-topic imo, because this is an example of where someone is outcast when they ought not to be. Someone is doing something which they reasonably should be able to do, but they are facing unfair judgement due to problematic and oppressive social standards. Do you think there are less extreme examples that aren't directly bigotry? Idk if I'm being clear here, but this is a p…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/23 04:32 PM
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It's basically because he (someone who thinks like this) doesn't view the girl as competition, while if she was having sex with a man she would be comparing him to the other guy directly. If she then goes off with that guy, he will think she judged the dude to be the "better man" and may feel somewhat emasculated. He wants to avoid this situation. This ties into possessiveness and is a bit objectifying. I guess possessiveness derives from gender norms, (women seen as prizes to be won in a game w…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/23 04:23 PM
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Yeah it seems funky that we talk about how many social dynamics are ableist, racist, homophobic, etc. (maybe not among redpillers idk) then we just say "well if you're lonely it's probably something you've done and should fix, sorry bro". Seems a bit cognitively dissonant.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/23 04:15 PM
2

It's an explicitly anti-feminist subreddit. Moderators think feminism is a female supremacy project and inherently bigoted. If you don't want that you may have to look elsewhere.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/23 03:37 PM
1

I am active on there, and it's not like people say at all. It doesn't seem over-moderated, I push back on bad takes all the time and everyone is fine with it. There's a lot of bad takes along the lines that people are saying, but some of the best gender conversation I've found on Reddit takes place there.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/23 03:37 PM
–

Brilliant
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/23 03:27 PM
10

Lmao, this stuff is just hard to attack. How do you know how long she "makes" other people "wait" out of interest? If you know they "get around", and don't want that, why are you trying to get with them? Are the majority of women you know having sex as frequently as you're suggesting, or do you just assume they are? Based on what? That aside, do you think a woman could reasonably attribute some emotion to sex rather than just thinking of the literal act itself? Is it feasible that someone could …
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/23 03:21 PM
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Oh is it like that? Disappointing if so. This is a topic I think really needs to be discussed, how we handle non-conformity.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/23 03:10 PM
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Right... ok. If someone was outcast in their community for being gay or transgender, would you say they're just "insisting on being an outcast and they should just get on with it"? After all, they could just like, keep it to themselves and everything would be fine? This is really what I'm getting at with whether someone "ought to be outcast". I just feel like these conversations indicate certain unpleasantries about how we think about "undesirables". That's all. I don't intend to say anything in…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/23 03:07 PM
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be fine being casted out. I just sometimes get the vibe from people that they do not want to push back on the fact that people can be outcast for things they ought not to be outcast for. It makes me wonder whether they have a problem with it at all. Someone might not even want to be a outcast (in fact, probably the majority don't), some of whom might be essentially at fault others may not be. I think people can be unfair on the first group by assuming they deserve it or they ought to fundamental…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/23 02:54 PM
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I don't know you so I don't know what you care about - do you think social mechanism that outcast non-conforming people are a good/neutral/bad thing? Do you have strong feelings against ableism?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/23 02:43 PM
2

Fair enough. For me in terms of a relationship, my main bar is "attractive enough" that most people I see meet tbh, an average-looking person would probably clear it. People obviously get more attractive the more you develop your relationship too, so even if they're not super-hot when you meet them, they'll probably become super-hot over time. Past that, it's all personality. But if they didn't pass that bar, I may find myself struggling in terms of sex and feeling attracted to them, and for me …
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/23 01:25 PM
4

Do you not have a point where someone is underweight/overweight to the point that they're no longer attractive to you? (I don't like that this is the case for me - I feel kinda bad about it, especially if caused by mental illness) For me it certainly lies on the extremes, (e.g. I would call Eugenia Cooney unattractive on the underweight end) but is there nonetheless.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/23 01:09 PM
-2

I'm not American - but I see far more very overweight white women than overweight black women. (maybe it's differences in racialised poverty or something over here, idk) They don't seem much heavier than average to me. (bearing in mind "average" is still in the overweight range here - apparently it's about 27.6 which isn't that much lighter than a few of these women, just outside the margin of error probably)
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/23 01:05 PM
9

It's the UK, we use stone rather than kg for people/animal's weights specifically. We would measure sugar and such in grams on the other hand.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/23 01:00 PM
9

Tbqh I don't think these people are fat to the point I would consider them unattractive. None of them look particularly close to morbidly obese. To me they look completely fine. Am I blind? Looking at the BMIs, they've picked women slap bang on the border between overweight and obese as well.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/23 12:56 PM
1

He might love her, but evidently not enough. Cheating fundamentally displays a lack of care for your partner. (bar very very exceptional circumstances)
/r/PurplePillDebate05/05/23 10:22 AM
2

I have no strong feelings on it. I like ambitious women, but that ambition could translate to a lot of money, or it might not. If she worked for a charity for a modest salary, great. If she was a software developer passionate about her work and was earning a far less modest salary, that's also great. She might even have a job she hates but does some really cool and interesting stuff on the side, that's great as well. I want the ambition, drive and passion. Many women I've attracted have been fro…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/05/23 08:31 PM
1

[though I wouldn't align with this sub anymore I will still offer perspective for those interested - I would imagine you don't want an echochamber] The survey question is very suggestive. Would you really say that the oppression of men has been "created" by feminism, and that this oppression originated very recently? (the typical MRA take on this would be that the vast majority of both men and women have been oppressed throughout history) It's much more realistic to say that the bidirectionality…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/04/23 02:48 PM
1

Being critical of feminist practice or aspects of particular feminist theories is different to being anti-feminist. The former will (and previously has, here) attract "dissident" feminists, the latter is actively hostile to such people. I'm sure you understand this, so I won't go on.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/03/23 06:03 PM
1

This sub is now explicitly anti-feminist, (not even just anti-radfem pro-libfem, full on "anti-feminist") as confirmed by a mod. I would look elsewhere if you don't want to be dragged into this.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/03/23 03:55 PM
2

This will clearly not go anywhere but if instead of: OP asked for good content creators who aren't bigots and you recommend feminists??? I said: OP asked for good content creators who aren't misogynists and you recommended trans activists??? You would think I was calling trans activists misogynists. You had ample opportunity to roll this back and say some feminists are on side, but you doubled down with "vanishingly few are not". You either misspoke or let the mask slip, and proceeded to pull it…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/03/23 05:26 PM
2

Why? I see no good coming from it. Those who are egalitarians will join us, because our cause is right. Those who think there is value in misandrist ideas will not. At the moment the MRM is a fringe online movement. Feminists have a monopoly on progressive gender dialogue, both in terms of real capital (ie. funding) and social capital. (how willing people are to take them seriously) In the eyes of the general public, the MRM is a reactionary movement that the far-right has an iron-grip on. Femin…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/03/23 03:34 PM
4

Well you essentially have because in your very next sentence you say fundamentally feminism is anti-male. What exactly are you expecting me to conclude from those two things together? Even if someone is pro-male and also would call themselves a "feminist", they would read sentiments along the lines of "feminism is anti-male" or "feminism is a supremacy project" (which I've read almost verbatim here) and write the sub off as misogynist. You may even invoke an emotional reaction where they reconsi…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/03/23 01:51 PM
6

You labelling all feminists as bigots is disconcerting. Do you believe that being a feminist and being pro-male fundamentally stands in contradiction? This sub's increasing anti-feminism is the reason why I've stopped engaging, it goes beyond the anti-(radical-feminism) which is all I ever was.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/03/23 08:38 PM
-1

I can't believe I'm saying this having spent years shitting on them, but hop over to menslib. They're nowhere near as bad as this sub would have you believe. (a lot of the commentary I find disagreeable but when I challenge it I seem to get a lot of positive engagement, and there seem to be a lot of turning tides) This sub has gone downhill, or I've just changed. One of the two.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/03/23 09:27 PM
3

70% is actually quite low, and 65% on Hinge seems exceptionally low, probably as close to 50/50 as you can hope for. I was expecting closer to Tinder's 90/10. Been meaning to give Hinge a go, though I unironically think I have better luck finding someone on Reddit.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/23 02:31 PM
3

Perfectly said
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/01/23 08:56 PM
5

My opinion is deeply negative. As far as I'm concerned, there should be no such thing as "masculinity" except possibly to describe the typical physical features of AMAB people. If you want "masculine" and "feminine" personality characteristics, you have to strip away the association with men and women. Let them be gender-neutral archetypes people can fit in to. Performing some kind of recalibration will spell problems when inevitably society's values shift and is just kicking the can down the ro…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/01/23 08:48 PM
1

People fantasise about this - but there are plenty of thoroughly evil female politicians - think people like Priti Patel and Thatcher. Plenty of white nationalists are married to women, plenty of women voted for Trump. Though it's awkward to point out, thinking that women are this significantly less capable of evil and unpleasantness is a form of benevolent misogyny.
/r/EverydayMisandry05/11/22 09:03 PM
4

They're getting ratiod in the comments, I'm not too worried. But yes it's very drole when people bring up that men also suffer from a problem that's traditionally thought a woman's problem then get accused of whataboutism, yet we see stuff like this where vast female minorities are emphasised over male ones. (I've even seen someone say "just because something mainly effects men, doesn't mean it's a man's issue, which is frankly hilarious considering the spin often put on things) If you cut out "…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/11/22 01:45 PM
2

Why do you feel he's dismissing men's issues here?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/10/22 01:00 PM
9

Low bars to clear but considering the current status of men's issues as being entirely undiscussable among the left, someone who confidently pushes back against "men are responsible for their issues" is a breath of fresh air.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/10/22 09:16 AM
16

I don't think he's a misandrist. He has exactly the right ideas but he's shackled by the social media leftist's kneejerk rejection of any male problem and his marriage to feminist aesthetics. Honestly I believe if someone were to repeat what he said in this video without people knowing it was Vaush, they wouldn't suspect a thing. I'm not sure he realises that with this video he's stumbled into exactly what people in male advocacy places have been saying. I want to see an actual MRA debate Vaush …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/10/22 08:59 AM
6

He's one of the only leftists that really discusses men's issues, and even then doesn't even do it that much, and he still gets shit for it. I think this reaction to his pro-male content has made him more cynical about social media feminism's response. Even he says that among a lot of social media feminists, there is no discussing men's issues without blaming men for them.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/10/22 08:52 AM
2

Though I think systemic is used as a bit of a buzzword, it seems like you're more taking issue with the fact that people don't talk about "systemic misandry". You don't seem to take issue with the concept of systemic misogyny so I'm a bit confused by your title? Naysayers always criticise male advocates of trying to shut down discussion of women's issues and it kind of feels like that's happening here, sorry if that's not the case.
/r/EverydayMisandry29/10/22 09:24 PM
32

I think Vaush has pretty much hit the nail on the head here - especially when he made the point about people saying that feminism deals with men's issues, and yet people are incredibly evasive to actually discussing these topics and pin the blame for gender expectations on men squarely on men, washing their hands of it.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/10/22 08:20 PM
1

Don't worry about it, I think this sub will naturally attract what is basically ragebait. I don't think your post was any worse than the others.
/r/EverydayMisandry27/10/22 05:34 PM
1

I mean they've made 12 posts, probably took a few minutes to write each. There's some pretty awful misandry that gets a lot of attention, but I feel if someone were to make a point like this, it'd be in a more concealed, less self-satire kind of way. Written like this I don't think anyone would take it seriously unless they like catching ragebait.
/r/EverydayMisandry27/10/22 05:25 PM
3

This is going to be a ramble. They probably do think all women are afraid of most men - likely their friendship group is incredibly politically homogeneous. I've become increasingly convinced that very few people actually have a clue how the "average" person behaves, if there even is such a thing. Unless you make deliberate effort to meet people from a huge number of backgrounds and countries, your perspective is limited to those around you. The number of people in my life who express soft femin…
/r/EverydayMisandry27/10/22 05:23 PM
1

It's bait, the answer has 18 upvotes and 155 comments, pretty much all profoundly negative and the upvotes aren't from big accounts. 6 shares which include r-slash-mensrights "compulsory DNA tests" stuff. There's always a few bigots that will come out and unironically support but I can't find them, it's all profoundly negative because the baiter pushed it too far beyond believability. A lot of stuff saying that "this is what feminism is really about" or words to that effect.
/r/EverydayMisandry27/10/22 04:57 PM
4

It's thinking that should be made pathological though. If your first thought on being badly treated by a man is to conclude something on all men, that indicates a broken world view. Like if someone became racist after being a victim of a crime.
/r/EverydayMisandry26/10/22 01:47 PM
2

nothing wrong with this
/r/EverydayMisandry25/10/22 07:17 PM
5

He's probably not wrong in a sense, I can imagine a lot of TikTok's men's advocacy is basically just misogynistic MGTOW stuff, considering it is the absolute lowest common denominator of any Internet conversation anywhere. Applies the other direction too - some male rape disinformation set to a quirky TikTok dance got hundreds of thousands of likes a year or so ago. (I haven't seen anyone on the "other side" be that overt)
/r/EverydayMisandry25/10/22 07:15 PM
6

My experience on menslib as of late has been a bit weird, typically the OP is saying one thing and then the comments are firmly arguing in a more agreeable direction. I've noticed this with several posts, realistically there's demand for a men's advocacy sub lying between LWMA and menslib.
/r/EverydayMisandry25/10/22 07:10 PM
3

University education has been inaccessible to most people even in living memory, (in the 1960s, about 7% of people went to college in the US, even less (4%) in the UK, compared to almost or over half right now. Slightly outside living memory, just before WW1 in the UK, only 6% even stayed in full-time education past 14 never mind step foot in a university) so I don't agree with the framing that's sometimes put on it, it was a privilege enjoyed by already incredibly privileged people. Many (most?…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/10/22 11:22 AM
1

How? I understand in the case of medical issues preventing ejaculation but I'm not sure how to understand it generally
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/10/22 07:42 PM
2

Read the replies in the top voted thread rn, it's saying more or less the same thing as here but sprinkling in "patriarchy" here and there. It has been "locked for cleanup" though...
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/10/22 08:26 AM
2

I don't see the comparison. In one case you're talking about changing the parameters of a sex act mid session without your partner being fully aware, and in the other we're not really talking about anything that concerns the physical act, and more people's motivations. I think being "used for sex" is manipulative, abusive, etc. but I would stop short of calling it rape if it was merely misleading and didn't involve coercion.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/10/22 10:06 PM
2

It's a tough one. If she was giving visible signs of discomfort and was visibly hesitant, then you would usually expect the guy to pick up on that. It becomes ambiguous if she gave no intention whatsoever but gave convincing affirmative answers. In the end, if one party says yes and the other party has no reason to doubt it, and has done nothing to coerce a yes, I don't think they can be held accountable if it transpires the consent was only given half-heartedly, until mind-reading technology co…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/10/22 10:01 PM
0

I had quite a harsh opinion on menslib about a year ago when I thought the posts mainly centred around toxic masculinity and how men could be better allies to women, (their sidebar links a site of this flavour but is overwhelmingly more misandristic) but I'm warming up to it a bit. Don't really agree with everything on there, but it provides a far more reasonable challenge than you will usually find. Maybe the tides have changed or I didn't dig closely enough in the first place.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/10/22 10:21 PM
1

I think the extreme end of MGTOW foregoes any interaction with women which necessitates misogyny. Not wanting to form romantic relationships with them (the "moderate" side of MGTOW) doesn't really, though it will often involve it.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/10/22 10:13 PM
5

I don't think that's it. I have seen the idea that gay men are "how men would behave (sexually, etc.) if not for the sensibility of women" once. Think that came from an FDS post though, so an example far to the right of the people we're presumably talking about. I do remember a post that chastised (the particular bad type of) radfems for treating gay men too kindly if anything.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/09/22 08:52 PM
3

Daily Mail gives the same interpretation to you, "The program, which in total will cost around $9million, is seeking to help around 820 people, but the $2million provided by the city will fund around 140 people". Not exactly the best quality news source but if anyone was going to give a hard gender spin, it'd have been them lol. I don't have a problem with 140 getting ringfenced, especially as it's below the prop of women/NB etc. homeless. It says "The participants - which will mainly be women, …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/09/22 06:37 PM
10

Gay? I'd be very surprised if anyone that "woke" would use that as an insult.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/09/22 03:48 PM
7

I would have no issue with someone "falsely" identifying as non-binary here, if it literally means saving a life. Also "gender non-conforming" people can be cis or trans, I think it's often misused to mean "non-binary", when a dude that wears makeup is GNC. Not sure if that was the original wording. Edit: I think vtj's assessment is correct that it's just 140 that are ringfenced for trans/NB people, which is ok.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/09/22 03:44 PM
1

All very agreeable. Never heard of Rojava before, will have a search.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/09/22 08:45 PM
7

I'm confused, I had thought you were a radfem visitor, nevermind then lol
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/09/22 08:13 PM
19

I'm always quite picky on this: saying "women are oppressed because of men" implies some kind of universality, with men collectively oppressing women when it's more like "women are oppressed by a group of men", which is saying something completely different because this group of men is not necessarily interested in empowering men outside that group. Really both men and women will be empowered and disprivileged in different ways by gender expectations and "patriarchal structures" - in the Islamic…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/09/22 08:06 PM
1

You're right, I was thinking too much about the West in the second case.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/09/22 07:05 AM
1

I'd imagine that's a typo since Hamberger et al seems to be from 2017. I think you're right in that I think the post could've been better framed as a straight criticism of Duluth. You'd need more broad criticisms to attack the idea of patriarchy as a whole.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/09/22 07:48 PM
1

I'm not using "patriarchy" in that sense, I meant the social structure that is described by feminists. Such a thing does exist in many countries, but I think women and men are equal enough in the west to have their issues discussed in a similarish way. It's silly to discuss gender expectations of men when women can't vote, (there are obviously some issues that escape this comparison) but not so much now. The way Feminists talk about it is so vague that it can mean anything, which is why the word…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/09/22 07:41 PM
1

I think he meant the hammer and blunt theory as in patriarchy and rolling Duluth into patriarchy, though looking back it's pretty unclear. I liked TheTinMen's content but some posts that weren't phrased anywhere near intricately enough meant I wasn't comfortable having them on my IG follow list publicly
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/09/22 06:56 PM
6

To be honest, I'm not too worried about people talking about patriarchy. It's not a very appropriate label for Western gender dynamics in irreligious communities but I can stomach analysis that uses it provided the points are good, and they definitely can be. If you're averse to the word "patriarchy" in certain spaces, you might be sussed out as "reactionary", even when your objection is more nuanced. The problem is that a lot of people actively avoid nuance (often exploiting ambiguity to change…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/09/22 05:51 PM
4

Be the change you want to see? The complaint is essentially that the article is too short, I don't think there's anything sinister going on. A lot of articles are only huge because one or two people have taken a particular interest in expanding it.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/09/22 03:19 PM
-1

Nothing has been suppressed on this page. I know Wikipedia has a feminist lean but it has decent awareness of men's issues. Well beyond that of most people at least. If you feel you can improve the article, I'd just do that and if it gets suppressed then you'll have a point.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/09/22 02:10 PM
9

The edit history of the article is public and there were no major deletions.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/09/22 01:49 PM
0

This feels like a reach. I'm sure people would say this but it's not on the article as it stands. You could try expanding it yourself.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/09/22 01:48 PM
29

Vincent stated that, after the experiment, she gained more sympathy for the male condition: "Men are suffering. They have different problems than women have but they don't have it better. They need our sympathy, they need our love, and they need each other more than anything else. They need to be together." ?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/09/22 12:50 PM
2

I'm not sure why this is downvoted, I don't see anything wrong with it
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/22 09:30 PM
3

I would say "pop radical feminism". There's a distinct misandristic breed of radical feminism that crops up everywhere on social media. Often pretty extreme misandry is defended as women simply "venting" and we're not properly getting across that these ideas are far from conducive to gender equality regardless of how we think of their actual impact. I don't really like when feminism as a whole is tarred, it is quite easy to advocate for women without chastising men.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/08/22 09:29 PM
0

My take: saying "most women/men" is usually no different to "all women/men". It's often very clear you want to say "essentially all", but are trying to mince your words to not be obviously misandrist/misogynist. That's not to say there aren't times where it might be appropriate, but this is just speaking about the context I've seen it in. Rarely is it used genuinely.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/08/22 06:37 PM
5

I don't think under-reporting is nearly as relevant with murder. Without any data I'd expect homocide to have the most gender asymmetry just because men murder quite a lot more than women. To level it out you might also want to lump in accessory to murder too. (to catch cases where a woman enlists a typically male associate to kill their partner) I doubt that data would exist collated neatly though, and I think there are bigger fish to fry.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/08/22 06:33 PM
3

It's one of the few times I've agreed without hesitation with social-media-feminism, his videos are irredeemably misogynistic and homophobic to the point of almost satire. I can't imagine why anyone would want to watch it. It's not really comparable to people like JP, where I can clearly see the appeal.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/22 07:30 AM
1

I don't think it's misandry, but it is so vague as to be totally useless. This sort of sentiment needs to be directed at the "straight" (dubious) white men that are actually in power. Directing towards literally everyone will just lead to pointless infighting that'll lead us no closer to a solution. I say dubious because straight is just tagged on because of it being top/bottom of the sexuality hierarchy and bringing in anyone else would be friendly fire. Realistically sexuality has very little …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/08/22 08:01 PM
0

??????????????????????????????????????
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/08/22 12:52 PM
3

And statutory rape laws are nowhere to be seen? Christ
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/08/22 12:29 PM
1

could you give a link?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/08/22 12:15 PM
7

Huh that's weird but I guess could make sense if they invoked stereotypes about gay men being perverts/sexually degenerate/pedophilic etc. I remember that FDS post about gay men being men if they didn't have women to keep them in check as well
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/08/22 11:53 AM
1

>men dictate how society is run The people with political power are largely men, which is different. Men collectively do not do such a thing. Talking like this you end up using the word "men" to describe several disjoint groups with vastly different levels of power, and who have no desire to protect each-other's interests. (which is why the whole "then why did men make it that way?" is a complete non-sequitur, not the same class of men) Ultimately to make this a useful statement you'd need at le…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/08/22 09:07 PM
12

Yeah I don't like how gay men are sometimes treated as "old news" within these communities. While they place quite low on their hierarchy, that doesn't mean much to the layperson But tbqh I don't see a huge amount of it in the group's that this sub would criticise. A lot of misandrists apply a similar sympathetic attitude to trans men, they're generally felt as "on side". The view became sympathetic enough for me to see a post ages ago that felt the need to remind people that gay men are still m…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/08/22 03:49 PM
5

Think this has been posted before but it's a very agreeable post
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/08/22 03:43 PM
26

To be quite honest, whenever they say "it's only x%", x is quite often alarmingly high. (I've even see it with claimed percentages closer to 10% than 0) Even 5% would be extremely high, (this translates to thousands of people per year!) nowhere near enough to dismiss it as a complete triviality. I'm not one to go hard on this issue, I think acknowledging male victimisation (and making sure accusations from women are taken seriously) is the higher priority and concentrating on this issue makes yo…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/08/22 06:51 PM
3

I find the term a bit restrictive or even nebulous, to me x's rights only encompasses legal equality, a literal reading wouldn't encompass social equality or dissolving gender expectations. "Men's advocacy" or "(gender-based) advocacy for men" does the job.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/08/22 12:08 PM
12

While I'm not convinced they're the tiny minority that they're sometimes made out to be, I have difficulty believing they will win, especially as TERFs tend to be closer to middle-age (and sometimes have bafflingly conservative social ideas) and most young feminists (that I have encountered, anyway) are socially progressive and trans-inclusive. I guess it's a generational thing - older feminists would have conceptualised misogyny as bigotry on the basis of biological sex, an idea whose days are …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/08/22 09:23 PM
7

Can it be updated? It's entirely predicated on the fact that male victimisation essentially does not exist. Or, in more acceptable lingo "women do batter men but in almost all cases, the man started it".
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/08/22 11:34 AM
2

I don't know much about her but it sounded like she did some good work when she was interviewed by The Tin Men.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/08/22 10:34 AM
6

I'm useless in terms of practical solutions but can spitball a bit. I'd happily attach my name to an uncontroversial interest group, but the bar for "uncontroversial" will be pretty high. If there's anything remotely dodgy said, an aggressive minority of people will latch onto it and do their best to deplatform the group, and they'll drag the group through the mud so the well-intentioned moderates don't even give it a second glance. This is of course partially speculation, but considering how mu…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/08/22 10:00 AM
18

> that guy over there who shows clear traits of autism makes me uncomfortable for just existing You've cracked the code here.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/08/22 05:42 PM
8

FWIW I don't think this whole sentiment will be very popular here. I can empathise with the frustration, however "all men are trash" shouldn't be seen as an appropriate expression of that frustration. We shouldn't see genders as collectives and therefore should be incapable of having feelings like this. I'm hardly going to chastise someone for using this phrase since I don't care that much, but I can't encourage it. It sets up patterns of thought which readily enable other forms of bigotry. I st…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/08/22 08:00 AM
21

Misandrist sentiment is on the rise among young people (not necessarily women), and TikTok is the popular space for zoomers. I don't think it's much more complicated than that.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/08/22 07:49 AM
3

I think sex positivity is by far the least egregious feature of modern Internet feminism, and it's a part I'm in complete agreement with. There is stuff to say about blanket promotion of "sex work", since posting nudes on OF (where the main risk is loss of employment and social ostracization, which will become less prominent as it becomes more normalised) and street prostitution in a dodgy city (where workers are frequently sexually assaulted and murdered) are entirely different kettles of fish.…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/08/22 09:06 PM
3

I seem to remember there was some dubiousness about whether this was the origin of the phrase. If you search on LWMA you might be able to find it. Regardless this seems to be a quite well known use of it.
/r/EverydayMisandry02/08/22 01:32 PM
1

Don't use your main then?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/08/22 01:30 PM
3

I think you need more punchy examples. Apart from the actively dangerous take by "wittyidiot" and the call for prostitutes to be shot, I have seen far worse. Vasectomy talk is a good focus correcting the disinformation surrounding it. FourthWaveWomen is low-hanging fruit though might be a good source. I know it's a sad reflection that misandry does not particularly shock me until it gets to the level of genocide/mass violence advocacy, (or flirting with the idea of non-existence of men) forced s…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/08/22 08:36 PM
3

I would find it incredibly surprising if this were the case. They might not be favoured by the algorithm but I doubt they will get banned.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/08/22 08:28 PM
9

I use "ideology" (maybe "ideologies" would be more appropriate since I know "incel" catches a large spectrum) as a catch-all term for the worldview, the lingo, the culture, etc. surrounding it, which are definitely quite particular. I was more talking about it being written off as "just misogyny", "just entitlement" and so on. At the very least it's got more particular narratives and culture surrounding it than just "run-of-the-mill" misogyny. It also allows people to forego any analysis of how …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/08/22 08:25 PM
54

I will just make the somewhat lazy comment that I don't think most people make a serious attempt at understanding incels. There's a lot to say about the ideology and it certainly isn't "simply" x, y or z, like most things.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/08/22 12:09 PM
4

I would partially agree with morkymarky that you should be much more specific than just "feminist", since this will open the door to "well feminism is defined as advocacy for women". I appreciate that people "on the other side" are very flippant with generalisations and say plenty of things that you simply wouldn't be able to reverse, but this is inherently a terrible way to talk and to maintain the "moral high" you need to avoid mirroring this behaviour. "Feminists are misandrists" is not reall…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/08/22 11:40 AM
6

I often see the opposite claim, that women's sexuality is suppressed. I struggle to see how that's the case. Even if this is down to fetishization of lesbians/wlws, that doesn't change the fact that women have a higher bar for gender non-conformity (and for non-sexual intimacy with the same gender) and noticeably less cost in identifying as bisexual. (I've seen the claim that bi men are treated as essentially gay and bi women as essentially straight, and I think this is pretty much true) This al…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/07/22 10:20 AM
1

It falls quite far from presumption of guilt. It just seems to make it harder for the accused to defend themselves
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/07/22 09:13 AM
3

I guess this is all hard to fit in the title, it just seemed to suggest there was something to be specifically applied to male offenders. Agree with most of this. I'm not sure where you're going with: >organisations who lament that sexual offences are 'underreported' Since it seems clear that they are, both with male and female victims. It's the whole reason why male victimisation by women is so underrecognised, the social conditions aren't there enabling men to speak up and be taken seriously. …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/07/22 09:40 PM
3

There are disgusting sentiments that come from people who identify as feminists, (note my wording here) and that doesn't have to necessarily reflect on feminism. MRAs do have an image problem but I don't think you can argue there's something inherently bad about activism for men.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/07/22 08:49 PM
3

I don't know why you're taking issue with my discarding of a reactionary (not a word I like, but a relevant one here) sentiment.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/07/22 08:42 PM
2

true enough. maybe a bit less potent in the current climate
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/07/22 07:28 PM
14

I hope I'm not being stupid, but I can't see where this would specifically effect men vs anyone accused of sexual assault. (I guess it doesn't make the title incorrect but I was expecting some specifically gendered wording)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/07/22 01:57 PM
3

I guess the word "loner" in itself isn't, but if you try to invoke the image of a "basement dweller", it's probably not going to be a woman that comes to mind.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/07/22 01:12 PM
10

I don't think you should dignify this by calling it an MRA argument.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/07/22 09:32 AM
3

Yeah that's the sort of intergalactic take I have no problem dismissing out of hand lol
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/07/22 09:47 PM
7

To mitigate this all a bit - there are plenty of cases where "not all men" would be a total non-sequitur in a similar way to "All Lives Matter". It would be inappropriate in response to a personal story, for example: you wouldn't say "don't worry, not all men are like that" to someone who was talking about sexist bullying. But honestly the hot takes I've seen in political discussions are baffling, eg. "it's a global mission of men to exterminate women". (I'm not strawmanning, I've seen someone s…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/07/22 06:03 PM
20

This kind of infuriates me about short-form formats on the Internet. People speak in slogans and construct the most vague sentiments which they can retcon to mean pretty much anything. "Not all men" generally perfectly matches the depth of the statements it's meant to counter. Honestly "not all men" doesn't go far enough - often "sure, but a small minority of men". I would never reply with just that, I might reply with words to the effect of it. To give a hot takes: misandrists mirror the mindse…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/07/22 05:49 PM
35

They're trying to play on gendered expectations of men, and so the words "loner", "weak", "fragile" will crop up since these are seen as "emasculating" terms. These are not generally viewed as negative traits of women, so reversing the insult does not really work. In a similar way that calling a man a "slut" doesn't really work outside of comedic/light-hearted contexts, I guess.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/07/22 05:33 PM
10

To clarify I ask this both out of interest and because often these traits reflect a crude caricature of men that rarely lives up to reality and/or have so many exceptions they become very unuseful. Guess this is to be expected when you're talking about just under half the population lmao. This isn't to say that if you narrow down to particular groups of men, you can't make useful observations, but I think talking about men as a whole will almost always be reductive.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/07/22 04:21 PM
6

There's no definition every single man fits perfectly but there's definitely a cluster of traits that are associated with men. Could you list some?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/07/22 02:58 PM
16

lmao you got me there (mlm = men-loving men if anyone doesn't know, just a catch all term)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/07/22 02:33 PM
22

Well the stigma against mlms (men-loving-men) & HIV never really went away so this is hardly a surprise.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/07/22 01:40 PM
2

With an asterisk. Genuinely gender egalitarian people should in theory also align with feminism, after all it should just be advocacy for women. Obviously, the modern "pop" radical feminism that you see among young people goes a lot further than that and has far more specific beliefs, and generally adherents vary from trace levels of misandry to literally longing for the non-existence of men as a group. This breed of radical feminist is extremely loud (their social media posts can comfortably cl…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/07/22 01:57 PM
1

I think they would have far less of a leg to stand on if they couldn't actually give any examples of far-right people calling themselves MRAs. If not, it'd be absorbed into the "anyone who strays from this very particular breed of leftism is essentially just (far-)right-wing" chatter.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/07/22 08:58 AM
9

Reactionary is just a synonym for "Bad Person with Bad Views", especially since often this "previous state" you supposedly want to revert to has never actually been the case ever. (there's never been a time where domestic violence against men by non-men was properly recognised and taken seriously, and so on) I can only see this applying to people on the very far-right who are really just misappropriating the MRA label.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/07/22 08:47 PM
10

I know this isn't a reply to your question, but I would not even entertain this complaint in the first place. There's nothing about men's rights activism that inherently "punches down" on women, is misogynistic, is "reactionary" (a term that is often used bizarrely), so it wouldn't matter if certain implementations of it were, because the answer is to just build an implementation that isn't. Men's activism is a topic (as I'm sure most here will agree) that the woke left consistently tries to swe…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/07/22 08:42 PM
8

I do agree that there is an inappropriate involvement of market terms in interpersonal relationships and that this is particularly prevalent among certain communities that may identify themselves as "incels". (I understand this sub can be a bit apprehensive about the word, you may want to tweak your wording if a mod comes along) My feeling on it is this. Some people want a concrete "objective" framework for understanding things, and are not happy when something like partner selection is extremel…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/07/22 08:55 PM
1

Oops
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/07/22 11:35 AM
3

No, because of the sort of press it would generate I wouldn't want to be associated with such a thing under my real name. A genuinely gender egalitarian group where men can talk without being drowned out by radfem slogans would be fine and is really all I wish for. However, if you were to make this more specific to male domestic abuse/rape/etc. survivors, then that'd absolutely be something that'd get my support. The "gap in the market" for this is much more obvious and uncontroversial. (though …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/07/22 05:17 PM
10

I don't quite understand what you're asking. Are you saying that consent is not always verbal? I feel that this point is often lost, rarely if ever do you see the model "it seems like we are going to have sex" "yes indeed it does" "do you wish to have sex with me?" "yes I do" and consent is far moreso inferred.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/07/22 12:23 PM
9

There are two spins on police brutality: the first is that it is not a gender issue, it is purely a race one. I've heard people say that when a white dude is shot by the police he usually did something to instigate it. The second, and more common, is that it is both a race issue and a gender issue, (this bit is indisputable) but actually it is women that are worse off. White men, despite making a numerical majority of police brutality victims simply "don't have to worry" about it, (and are privi…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/07/22 10:37 PM
1

iirc when you google Kafkatrap a lot of the examples are CRT (mainly DiAngelo's conception) so I think it's overall too loaded to use in the wild even when it's extremely apt.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/07/22 06:54 PM
7

This is why I can't/won't use the word "kafkatrap" despite it being such an extremely useful word. (coming from Eric S Raymond) This sort of thing is annoying if you look at the sketchy past of "the future is female" (I remember it didn't directly originate with calls for a male genocide but has an unfortunate association with it) and the fact that "when you're used to privilege, equality feels like oppression" originates from an MRA usenet group and is talking about women, no-one really cares o…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/07/22 11:55 AM
8

Well I have basically two reasons for using a throwaway account. One reason is that if I have a sudden shift in political ideology I can readily switch to another identity without having my previous views inextricably tied to me. (especially since having drifted from rightlib to socdem already) Second is because passion about these issues to the point of finding spaces where they won't be the odd one out is perceived the wrong way. People expect you to basically respond "yes" to "can a man be a …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/07/22 11:41 AM
6

What really stands out to me is when the structure of their argument so closely mirrors more "run-of-the-mill" bigotry. You could easily respond to someone's racism/misogyny/homophobia with "ah, but this isn't about you, you're one of the Good Ones, I'm talking about the Bad Ones" (mirroring the first "Them:") or like, "but straight/cis people can also be disowned by their family". (mirroring the second "Them:") These would be seen as "completely different" because of the context/history, but th…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/07/22 01:46 PM
14

I haven't met any women/men that are quite as bad as I see on TikTok. The closest approximation I know is quite pleasant in real-life then fits into the misandrist-rad-fem character type on her social media. The main thing I see is people saying "ok that's messed up, but what misogynists say/do is so much worse", etc., and one time this amounted to someone saying "I think what they're trying to say is <literally completely different, far less objectionable point>", like a two-person Motte and Ba…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/07/22 09:39 AM
7

tiktok is a travesty of an app. That and Instagram were two of the primary drivers of the disinformation surrounding male victimisation (often set to goofy music) that sprung up around the Sarah Everard case that led me to this sub. I seriously struggle to keep my cool with so many takes that are so objectionable and bundle so much hate that they'd take an essay to address. I don't even want to take a look at the linked post lol
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/07/22 09:28 AM
1

I don't think it was really a man vs woman thing here, pretty much everyone in the conversation seemed to be women (both those dealing the misinformation and correcting it) and I seemed to be one of the only men participating. Must have been because of the audience of the OP or something. Dunno why I get so much garbage on my feed on that particular app
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/07/22 07:09 AM
11

Yeah that just goes into straight misandry lol, next will come the suggestion that we must keep the population of men at an absolute minimum
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/07/22 11:31 PM
23

I don't think "reciprocal" responses (that is, "men have been doing this to women for however long so men should now be on the receiving end") are really ever the way to go. We shouldn't demand/expect women to make significant alterations to their bodies just as we shouldn't expect the same of men, previous expectations put on women don't in my opinion justify future expectations on men, when those expectations just shouldn't have existed in the first place. It also plays into an idea of "collec…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/07/22 07:49 PM
1

Yeah I have a problem with the same word often being used to describe several essentially disjoint groups of people, but I was surprised Kendi made such a point.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/06/22 07:34 AM
12

>brainwashed by men I appreciate people here probably won't be much of a fan of Kendi, but he made a similar point that saying black people cannot be racist on their own accord (say if you credit it to brainwashing by "white power structures"/white people etc.) vastly overestimates the power of white people and vastly underestimates the power of black people. Exactly the same situation here with men and women. The most misogynistic things I've ever heard irl came from my grandmother.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/06/22 10:37 AM
17

This is probably the quickest way someone can lose my respect with respect to misadry I can hack mild misandry (KAM has nothing on this) but if you cannot conceptualise men as victims and would tell a male victim that he could not have been raped because some radfem theory says so, I cannot put you above anyone else who denies the humanity of someone because of their being a woman. Someone who has so much hate and bigotry entangled in their world view cannot be a nice person generally.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/06/22 09:56 PM
6

My brief impressions are that it goes far beyond merely "pandering". When I had a brief skim a little bit ago it seemed like a straight up radfem sockpuppet sub.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/06/22 06:29 PM
39

>"lots of women feel blamed, too." I hate the hypocrisy, if you try to de-gender unnecessarily gendered issues you're accused of "making it about men", but if you talk about isolation some men feel you will very readily get "well, plenty of women are lonely too!". Occasionally I see glimmers of hope when someone brings up that viewing "weirdness" in men as dangerous is "ableist", (which tbf is true, but it's also against basic decency) but it saddens me that it even needs to be framed this way f…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/06/22 06:26 PM
6

Oh definitely bring them up, but I wouldn't make them the centrepiece of my point. But you are right
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/06/22 11:25 PM
6

Another thing I'd add - this is a reason why I don't focus on specific numbers too much. The more you focus on a number, the more opportunity you give for people to go right past your point and just start challenging your specific statistic and missing (deliberately or otherwise) the spirit of the point, which doesn't get anyone anywhere.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/06/22 08:11 PM
23

I agree that this is what should have been done in the first place. There was opportunity for a lot of feminists to do this. However, they didn't do that and a situation has been created where acknowledgement of male victims has been specifically suppressed, and when people read gender-neutral activism they will usually paint a picture in their head of male perpetrator (and probably female victim). This needs to be challenged with specifically acknowledging victims of female (or otherwise non-ma…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/06/22 07:56 PM
25

Literally, if the Internet feminist gender-neutral messaging was genuinely gender-neutral and there was just a lack of specific acknowledgement of male victims I wouldn't have so much of a problem. (I could readily take that in good faith) I have a problem when groups (not sure how to quantify how many, but you can find them in the wild very easily) of Internet feminists specifically spread falsehoods about male victimisation, knowing that it'll make it harder for male victims to be recognised. …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/06/22 07:48 PM
37

Even if it were less - a lot of noise is made about the 25% homeless women, or female victims of police brutality where they also make up a minority representation. (the "progressive" narrative that white men are the best treated and the further you stray from this the worse you're treated is laughable - police brutality almost perfectly exemplifies where gender and race issues meet with the treatment of black men) As long as there is a significant number of ignored male victims, it would be wor…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/06/22 07:40 PM
3

I don't choose the name involuntarily celibate for anyone but I understand what people mean when they use it. I think prostitution can be excluded from the definition with no loss. It's not about sex, it's about a lack of connection "with the collective" and disaffection from that.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/06/22 09:46 PM
13

I'm not sure how that's relevant to my point - you're talking about two different needs. Some will just want sex, but a lot of people want the emotional intimacy that comes with a relationship, and those needs cannot really be fulfilled on-demand for a fee.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/06/22 07:53 PM
19

>There's always a way to get consensual sex This is clutching at straws and feels like a technicality more than anything else - hiring a prostitute is very different to a loving relationship.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/06/22 07:27 PM
6

You forget, it's men enforcing these expectations on other men, so this is a problem men have to deal with. /s - it's projection that people think this type of thing is addressed to women instead of everyone guilty of it (which is plenty of people from any gender)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/06/22 11:20 AM
4

I always thought she/they and he/they are slightly odd - you can't really opt out of "they", it's a gender-neutral pronoun. (which means neutral of both binary and non-binary genders) I understand they/she and they/he as in "prefer they but don't mind she/he, but x/they continues to mystify me. Unfortunately I generally just ignore she/they and he/they and view it as more of a political signal than anything else. (which some people might see as overly cynical...) For they/he and they/she I would…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/06/22 06:12 PM
12

It's funny that by internal standards, even sympathetic "outsiders" would be called transphobic due to this. The majority of people seem to take for granted that being trans is defined in terms of gender dysphoria, and are often shocked to find out that this is actually a hotly contended thing.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/06/22 06:02 PM
19

>terfs or "not" terfs both have this same rhetoric I wouldn't quite say this - TERFs do not see trans women as victims. They see them as male perverts that are either indulging a fetish or are looking to have access to vulnerable women. Non-TERFs take a very different view. I think TERFs have this attitude towards trans men though, they see them as having been indoctrinated to reject womanhood and hence must be "deprogrammed" in some way.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/06/22 02:30 PM
36

This is where social constructivism falls, it borders on scientific denialism to completely ignore biological factors. Their importance may often be exaggerated but we cannot really say they don't exist. Full gender essentialism, where we disregard sociological factors and claim that there is a fixed biologically-coded "natural order of things" that can't change, is also daft, I think the "right answer" is somewhere in the middle. I get very nervous when people want to entirely disregard the neu…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/06/22 02:17 PM
17

They only really care about the science when it supports their causes. eg. people who are usually "anti-science" (or opposed to "medicalisation" of things) suddenly reversing their tune when covid is concerned and they want to fight against denialists.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/06/22 02:15 PM
2

Yes unfortunately I don't treat "mild" misandry and severely as I may do "mild" racism or homophobia. It's something I'm not sure how to work my way out of considering that I've basically been conditioned to ignore it. But I would maintain that most women do not fit the caricature you gave.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/06/22 08:12 PM
3

Yes women have a stronger in-group bias than men. (well, they have one in the first place) No, this doesn't mean that they dehumanise men. Most women are pleasant to most men, but there is a significant minority of misandrists that fit the caricature you describe. Even those who you would expect to be misandrists only hate men in the abstract, they are quite happy to befriend you if you are "one of the good ones". I understand this would be different with any bigotry targeted about minorities, b…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/06/22 07:20 PM
2

Women don't feel what way? Feminist framework means that gender-based solidarity among women makes perfect sense, when women stand up for other women it creates a stronger force against male oppression. I think it's unnecessarily defeatist. We need to repeatedly surpass their expectations to get their attention, if they see we are merely doing what they expected us to do then we will be written off pretty quickly and they won't bother to dig into the given arguments.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/06/22 07:11 PM
4

I don't think this will work. Gender-based solidarity among men is almost inextricably tied to the "bad MRAs" and those groups that may be externally labelled pejoratively as "incels". (I forgot how the mods want us to word this, please let me know if this is ok) To the radical feminist, it is mobilisation of men, being an arm of the patriarchy, against women in a gender (or sex, depending on the flavour) war, which is an impression that we could really do without since it will validate their wo…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/06/22 06:53 PM
6

Imo, we should not have desire an in-group bias. All it will cause is sexism (when you identify with an in-group you will far more readily adopt bigoted views towards the out-group) and unnecessary division between genders. We don't need selective gender-based solidarity, we need empathy that is by default divided equally. (of course, some people quickly demonstrate themselves as being less deserving, but you know what I mean) Anyway, I'm not sure if this in-group bias is biologically determined…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/06/22 06:38 PM
11

I disagree with "mental gymnastics". I don't think anyone wants the draft for women, but pushing it as an issue challenges the status quo and gets people talking about it for men as well. Not to mention that it gets the attention of feminist groups which are much more influential voices than those currently advocating for men. It might seem like an extreme measure, but it pales in comparison to plenty of other "progressive" demands. If we just say "well we should be pushing men up rather than dr…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/06/22 06:25 PM
1

The other poster is not making any actual argument and are not really saying anything, they are just making fun of the OP.
/r/EverydayMisandry16/06/22 11:14 AM
9

I definitely don't think they surpass the mainstream right in bigotry, certainly not in the US. (though libertarianism properly applied, even right-wing libertarianism, will result in far more of an egalitarian outlook than the woke left) I find that woke-left-wing bigotry can be more sinister though because they condemn bigotry only insofar as it doesn't advantage their own political objectives. They are too happy to weaponise these things against their political adversaries, happily replicatin…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/06/22 06:16 PM
10

My opinion is that "gender roles" are just caricatures, a vanishing number fit either rigidly.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/06/22 05:09 PM
1

Exactly my point, +1.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/06/22 01:48 PM
1

no worries
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/06/22 12:18 PM
3

It's worth noting that they are this way to make them substantially easier to most people. Were they not, a lot of students would struggle. There's a lot of uproar when Alevel papers are even slightly creative.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/06/22 09:26 AM
14

Plenty of boys do excellently in tests at 18. If you look at international olympiads for sciences and maths, most of the contestants are boys. In school exams, in certain subjects they are over-represented at both the very top and the very bottom. How does your theory account for this?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/06/22 01:10 PM
24

I think the point 2 has to be refined a bit: the discrimination may not be active or clear, (though I suppose they do come under the umbrella of "discrimination" or discriminatory thinking, I wouldn't call it that) we need to look whether there are "soft" factors that contribute to low attainment among boys. Two key things that stand out in my mind: Are struggling boys treated the same as struggling girls? Are they offered help or do teachers presume ("boys being boys"), that their lack of effor…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/06/22 01:09 PM
2

u/man_of_culture_112 I don't think I can reply to your comment since the throwaway account has saw it fit to block me instead of allowing me to defend myself or even see their hit piece, I had to log out to even see their comment. (unfortunately for them I will indirectly reply to their comment regardless of this) No, it isn't "black pill". If you view men as mere numbers and abstract beings then the argument makes sense. It is also a biological fact that humanity could technically function with…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/06/22 11:06 AM
2

I have to say that you are not making your point clear at all and in the linked thread there was a lot of confusion about what you were actually talking about. It would have helped a lot of you gave specific examples of who you are talking about and what specifically you have a problem with. I will still advocate for men regardless of their political affiliation. As clarified by a moderator in your replies, right wing social beliefs are not accepted here and will be proactively challenged. Attem…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/06/22 08:42 AM
2

>By universally I mean with no regard to what they are actually saying and what their views and just as importantly, behavior towards others, are. I know what you meant by universal, I was challenging whether it was indeed universal. Like it or not, bringing such people onboard the men's rights movement will alienate existing men's rights supporters and damage cooperation, since the people being brought on board (think of the kind of people on communities . win/scored . co/4chan) have repeatedly…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/06/22 10:16 PM
4

I'm not following your argument at all. People tying men's rights to right wing extremists is a disinformation tactic, and the first article is an excellent example of this. What the men's rights movement actually advocates for does not matter here, provided there is a minority that fit their caricature they will zoom in on it and blow it up. If you focus on the minority of feminists like Sally Gearhart (who I am told is essentially irrelevant in feminist literature) that essentially advocate fo…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/06/22 07:30 PM
1

What media claims this as an obligation? I'm afraid I understand neither your comment nor the linked post. Isn't the whole point that we want to reach out to appeal to disaffected men so they don't turn the right? Not just trying to recruit people who have gone down that path...?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/06/22 06:06 PM
1

I was speaking generally
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/06/22 10:12 AM
6

It shouldn't be centred. You can bring up how feminism has contributed to something or failed to address something but you shouldn't lead with anti-feminist arguments, otherwise people will zoom right past your point and brand you a misogynist. Not calling yourself a feminist is bad enough to some people, never mind actively criticising it Also if you are anti-feminist first and pro-male second, you attract the wrong crowd
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/06/22 11:21 PM
13

Realistically, an MRA (as in, someone who advocates for men in issues where they are disadvantaged because of their gender) shouldn't call themselves anything. They should say what they have to say and no more. (I would avoid direct criticism of feminism as well, but YMMV) Literally anything short of "feminist" is suspicious, even "gender egalitarian" would at least strike you as weird. (though I think it is actively used in academia) But since you can't really just not have a name for a sub, I …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/06/22 04:26 PM
7

My memory of that article is that they basically say "this MRA point is actually correct, but look at how they supposedly twist it for the purpose of misogyny, so the point is invalid, isn't that a shame?". They issued a similar rebuttal for male rape, saying it was an under-documented phenomenon but one that was weaponised for misogynistic purposes.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/06/22 01:43 PM
8

Yes, it "makes sense" that men are disposable, and this has evolutionary function and society could technically function with far fewer men than women. No, that does not make it ok. It is also would "make logical sense" for me to go around breaking pensioners kneecaps and legging it with their pension, that doesn't mean I'm gonna do it. Sometimes these arguments border on sociopathy, forgetting that the people they are talking about are humans and not abstract boogeymen.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/06/22 01:36 PM
3

I wonder why their "how to tell if you're an MRA" article decries suspicion of male feminists. Seems very convenient. It is a definite trend that (albeit a minority of) abusers emulate feminist beliefs to win the favour of vulnerable women. Guess calling that out hits too close to home for some.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/06/22 03:51 PM
4

It is utterly disgusting that anyone who advocates for men would promote this site. It contributes to the erasure of male victims by concentrating entirely on the role of men as a perpetrator, and only mentioning male victims when criticising MRAs. (it's the same old same old - talk all about female victims, then claim bad faith whenever anyone asks "what about the men?") This has just cemented my belief that menslib is a feminist sockpuppet sub. Another one "Most men are looking at internet por…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/06/22 03:42 PM
3

Same, might be tmi but I don't think I actually had one until I was 12 or 13... A baby being able to have one is news to me
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/06/22 08:07 AM
2

Yes, personally I am of the view that racial identity is not something worth maintaining since it defines almost nothing about a person, versus the company they keep and values they have, so it's a nonsense premise in the first place. It's just interesting to see people have very different takeaways. It's interesting to see the generational gap wrt feminism, very few older Democrat men thought poorly of feminism. (perhaps because they were alive to see its greatest advances) It is also reassurin…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/06/22 07:54 PM
1

Let me just say it's quite interesting to look at the "View discussions in other communities" tab. A lot of people have zoomed into the "Great Replacement" conspiracy theory.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/06/22 05:32 PM
6

Not to mention that if we depict erections as entirely conscious "decisions", we dabble into rape apologia. (since penetrative sex acts are difficult [though not entirely impossible] without an at least partially erect penis, and one can obviously develop unintentionally... There are obviously troubling implications wrt the whole "wanting it" narrative)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/06/22 05:12 PM
0

But it's not really generalising the behaviour of white men, its a comment on how society treats or treated white men. Even if you don't agree, (I'd say in a lot of aspects white women are the most privileged, you sort of have to, but I think quibbling about this is besides the point anyway) to say it's racist or sexist is a reach. I don't mean to create this thread for a fight with the mod team or anything, I was just very frustrated that a high quality thread was nuked for a single line, (whic…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/06/22 04:09 PM
1

This is an opinion on the structure of society and not a racist or sexist comment. By this standard, we would not allow any talk favourable to patriarchy theory, which would lock out radfems from comment.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/06/22 01:32 PM
7

The post isn't addressed to women. Addressing directly to women or men would be counterproductive
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/06/22 10:33 AM
11

It's just washing your hands of the problem. You could acknowledge the societal conditions that lead to stuff like incels, while also not condoning it, or you could just say "well if that were me, I wouldn't do that" and that's it. It would require acknowledging that misandry (or at least perception thereof) is a strong contributing factor to these movements. There needs to be progressive spaces to "catch" these people, but too many have overwhelmingly anti-male sentiment.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/06/22 09:47 AM
8

This is essentially victim-blaming. A similar line is used with black-on-black violence. "Why should white people care if black people won't stop killing each-other?". (doubles as black misandry since these are more specifically black men) In fact, a lot of these misandristic arguments mirror racist, anti-Semitic, anti-immigration (poison M&Ms) etc. arguments of the far-right. The only answer you will get is that "it's different", but these arguments are flawed and bigoted whatever identity grou…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/06/22 09:37 AM
4

The CDC data only goes up to 2019, do you have corresponding data for the pandemic years?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/06/22 12:54 PM
3

The article is well-written and agreeable, (and doesn't actually really say much that would be controversial here) and does not hide any gender-inegalitarian narrative. So I am not too bothered about this personally. Were they to go on some misogynistic rant I'd have a different opinion.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/06/22 12:46 PM
2

if you're talking about marriage specifically, and the legal implications of that formalisation, sure. But I wouldn't extend it to relationships as a whole, which is the vibe I got
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/06/22 08:21 PM
5

This is no better than the feminist "argument" that women shouldn't have relationships with men because of the "normalised culture of abuse" and so on. It's just a ridiculously strong statement to me and clashes massively with the counterarguments to claims of "rape culture" and so on, unless we're happy to just swap the genders in feminist rhetoric.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/06/22 04:21 PM
7

>I assumed the odds of a man beating a woman were just bigger than the opposite Just FWIW, this opinion will not be popular here. (this sort of line often being used to disregard male victims, though I know/hope this wasn't your intent)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/06/22 07:38 PM
7

I don't think this is a totally bad thing. It becomes bad when the fight against the far-right is exploited to suppress nonconforming voices. Things that diverge from the approved narrative are seen as "fishy" (even if ostensibly leftist) and suspected of being some far-right pipeline or suggestive (or "incel pipeline" in the case of MRAs, though these two things are virtually synonymous) of alternative intent.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/06/22 06:39 PM
14

Isn't it obvious? Look at the Ministry of Truth a while back, several outlets highlighted that it was conservative backlash. Obviously it wasn't only conservatives, but this emphasis withdraws credibility to the criticism in the eyes of a progressive reader. There is a similar deal here, if we paint MRAs as necessarily far-right white supremacists, it is very easy to discard to progressive readers, because those two things are very potent bad things. Were they to acknowledge that there is a sign…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/06/22 06:12 PM
24

Pop/internet radical feminism (which is the most vocal form of feminism nowadays) is truly a scourge. The moment I think it's not that bad, I am later confronted by pretty explicit examples that supremacy and dominance is being sought, rather than justice. There is no space for advocacy for male victims, because that (according to The Narrative) necessarily involves punching down on female victims and siding with the dominant class over those who "dared" lash out against it. God I hate how evil …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/06/22 06:05 PM
1

Could you give an example?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/05/22 04:43 PM
2

Would he? Probably if he just ranted about feminism for the whole essay, but not if he showed good understanding of feminist ideology and applied this to the text as the brief wanted. It's for this reason I almost considered taking a class in feminism, but decided it'd be a considerable time-drain. I would imagine high-quality "anti-feminist" or skeptic essays in that class would have been a lot rarer (since you'd only really take the class if you were sympathetic) but not totally unheard of.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/05/22 10:44 AM
4

Is this really enough of a problem to be suspicious of every female teacher? Surely teachers should be considered on their own merits and pulled aside if there are strange patterns in their marking? In the UK, even in single gender schools the staff body is almost invariably mixed gender. I think drawing hard lines between men and women causes a lot of the gender-based issues we see today. We should be encouraging to view people as people who happen to be women or happen to be men.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/05/22 08:45 AM
4

Why? To me this promotes this unhealthy social separation of the genders.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/05/22 08:04 AM
13

There is nothing wrong with that assignment. They were learning about different critical theories and had to apply that knowledge. The assignment does not get him to "write about why feminism is a great movement and how The Great Gatsby is patriarchal and sexist", (it allows him to argue the opposite) it asks him to evaluate the text in a feminist framework, and there's nothing really wrong with that. Such an essay could be written entirely externally of that framework without him believing in i…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/05/22 08:19 PM
3

Often a good point is taken and stripped down and pushed to the point where it is literally not true. The point may start as "x disproportionately suffer from [...]", then it becomes "x suffer from [...] more than y", (which already may be incorrect) then it becomes "x suffer a lot more from [...] than y", then it becomes "actually, x are pretty much the only real victims of [...], if you are y then it's none of your concern because it won't happen to you". You then have to be very careful to di…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/05/22 07:03 PM
4

Exactly my opinion. Feminism is advocacy for women and shouldn't pretend to be anything more. The men's advocacy that feminism allows is where men are treated as corrupted and in need of reprogramming. The thought that they might not be responsible for their own problems is not entertained, they are victims of the patriarchy which men are collectively complicit in.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/05/22 06:58 PM
3

The only "progressive" opposition to it I've seen is when they throw their arms up in the air and say "well we wouldn't be able to trust men are on the pill anyway", when a man has little to gain from lying and a lot to lose.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/05/22 08:41 AM
2

Stripping down someone's argument to the point where it is literal nonsense is a very common manipulation tactic. See also femicide: women are murdered "simply for being women". (where I would guess this is very rarely true)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/05/22 08:40 AM
1

to be fair r slash antifeminists is mostly low-quality low-effort posts littered with generalisations about women. I wouldn't assume this will set a precedent, though I would imagine r slash mensrights is also suspect.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/03/22 03:16 PM
3

General advice: keep participation in controversial subreddits on a throwaway. Note that this does not constitute ban evasion, since doing this will prevent the bans in the first place. I don't think Reddit should allow this kind of pre-emptive ban unless they are currently being raided. Use it as a reason to have the user on a one-strike policy, sure, but I don't think subreddits should get free reign to arbitrarily ban whoever they want. (especially as it's fantasy to pretend subreddits are ac…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/03/22 02:30 PM
3

Many do acknowledge issues black men face. But they don't acknowledge the gender component and attack it solely as a race issue. Which misses half the problem and means you have to do some mental gymnastics. You should also be more specific with the group you're talking about. If you are talking about "Internet feminists" and people in the "woke" sphere you are broadly correct, but you should target it more so you're not tarring all left-wing women with the same brush.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/03/22 01:37 PM
26

This is what Internet feminists should call "toxic masculinity". A man was made to feel inadequate and insecure and he responded in the male way: with male aggression and violence because he couldn't be seen to be disrespected and he needed to show dominance. But because it was done in protection of a woman, that apparently makes all the difference. People do not care about gendered expectations of men.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/03/22 01:29 PM
3

Who said this? I'm not even sure if the people who would theoretically say this really believe it. People who don't care about women's issues most likely don't care much about men's either. (speaking on average, at least)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/03/22 01:47 PM
1

The statistic is apparently 2/3 of the debt is held by women, not 2/3 of the debt holders are women. I don't know if this is the actual reason, but they could argue this is because women are less able to pay their debt back. They do seem to borrow slightly more, but only a few thousand more. also u/Oncefa2
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/03/22 12:11 PM
3

> In cases of domestic abuse, only the victim can help themselves if they want to get help You can push them towards getting help, though, even if its ultimately their decision if they do or not. (in particular - you shouldn't use this line to wash your hands of any responsibility for that person)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/03/22 02:19 PM
3

I would not expect someone to physically intervene, which is a ridiculous expectation to place on someone, but I would expect someone to call the police in this situation. Washing your hands of this entirely is poor form at the very least.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/03/22 02:09 PM
10

The root of the problem seems fairly obvious - "egalitarian" subs are going to talk about issues that are not covered much in the media, which as far as gender is concerned will be almost exclusively men's issues, so they will become a de-facto mens rights sub. Why would you talk about mainstream issues in a fringe space, I guess. Linguistic barrier is less important, I can get someone's point even if it's in radical feminist jargon ("patriarchy", "toxic masculinity", which I obviously don't use…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/03/22 12:27 PM
12

Will happily move to any genuinely egalitarian feminist sub that views gender inequality as a two-way street. Most subs (and the internet in general) seem to pool on the extremes, and I find this much more workable than the explicit and nonchalant misandry on the feminist side.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/03/22 09:56 AM
10

One rule for me and another for thee. Classic.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/03/22 08:13 PM
24

There's a fine line between "people have the right to be cautious" and "it is misandristic to systematically treat and profile men as potential rapists" that is too often blurred.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/03/22 11:47 AM
5

It has always been a principle of mine to not hold prejudices or demean someone because of immutable characteristics. I don't suspend these principles for any reason, so I cannot support much Internet feminism or "woke" breeds of leftism that can happily type pages of doublespeak explaining why misandry is not a concern. I think it's more peculiar that such a large amount of progressive people lose all empathy when it comes to men, even when they are members of their favoured identity groups.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/03/22 10:37 PM
46

Yeah, people are basically sympathising with men not being able to leave. Instead of "isn't it horrible how people have to stay and fight, trans women are particularly affected because <transphobia/homophobia etc. in the Ukraine>" it's just "isn't it horrible how trans women are trapped in a warzone" with no mention that this is the result of a misandristic policy. Even "progressives" are taking it for granted that men are to stay, protect and give up their lives for women and children. So much …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/03/22 10:26 PM
16

I don't have high expectations, any discussion of misandry by feminists is going to be qualified with "well, of course women have it worse". My point is that feminists can easily understand body-shaming in their jargon, and this is an example of an excellent understanding, they just don't care. [*] specifically - panel 18 (woman with facial hair) is a bit of a weird point to bring up, (maybe the author wanted to bring it back to women, even if it's an extremely obscure group of them) but ok. wha…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/03/22 08:29 PM
45

Society doesn't like "strange" or non-conforming men. They're suspicious and unpredictable. I think people with unusual behaviours will always have difficulties in childhood, but as they grow up people should ideally get much more tolerant. Another observation is that they have to express their discontent with society in a very particular way.* If they don't choose their words carefully, they can be quickly branded as an "incel". They're not offered sympathy and guided away from these ideologies…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/03/22 04:31 PM
1

Which details from the cartoon tipped you off?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/03/22 04:06 PM
3

The cartoon, even though it's in jargon I don't agree with, does capture the issues well though. Haven't seen any of their other work.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/03/22 04:03 PM
19

I don't think I am a fan of it, I don't really like the flavour of the comic but they have definitely "got it", with the link with ableism and everything.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/03/22 03:38 PM
57

You're exactly correct. There are some feminists that have identified this as well: https://everydayfeminism.com/2016/02/neckbeard-cartoon/ but far more often when I see people complaining about women in any vaguely misogynistic way, the response "aww is it small" is par for the course. It's a useful insult, and yes it indicates that these particular individuals don't really care about body shaming men, when they seem to care it's merely posturing. If you basically explicitly say a small penis i…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/03/22 01:46 PM
3

What if the men were gay or poor? Do we just not give a shit about any of that anymore? As we all know, the sole determinants of privilege are gender first, race a close second, and literally nothing else.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/03/22 12:33 PM
2

Sorry you had to go through that. The contingent of people who only care about "oppression" insofar as it helps their identity group and their identity group only is extremely disappointing. It becomes disgusting when they use this to mask or excuse their own prejudices.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/03/22 12:09 PM
14

It's a weird situation - we're all aware of how male victimisation by women isn't uncommon, but we're still confronted with the fact that while we have an endless supply of stories from women victimised by men, (which are important) we have vanishingly few coming from men victimised by women. To speculate on the reasons: (I talk specifically about cis men, I am not sure about trans men) Sorry if this is fragmented, this is just a bunch of ideas We usually see women in a less sinister light than …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/03/22 12:06 PM
8

Not weird at all imo. Manipulative ideologies attract manipulative people, who can then leverage that to belittle and demand things of people. Arguments are no longer about substance, but battles of spiritual purity. Wokeism is especially sinister because it claims to be dissolving barriers between identity groups, when it is basically doing the exact opposite. I think a huge reason why trans men are glossed over in this setting is because they "break" a lot of these ideas. After eons of demonis…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/03/22 11:27 AM
4

> straight passing This sort of thing infuriates me. It's a never ending game - within any identity group there are always people that are argued to be slightly more oppressed than the rest, and it has no end. If you're bi, in order not to be kicked far down the hierachy to "intruder"/"pretty much straight", you need to "act gay" (obviously no such thing, but I digress) and have only same-gender partners, it's quite natural when you think about it.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/03/22 11:12 AM
19

Yeah even if you want to show the ridiculousness of "traditional masculinity", (which is the main excuse I can think of) the argument needs to be at least somewhat external (say like, "by that logic..."), you can't directly attack them with it. This is all very dubious anyway, a lot of people are only concerned about gendered expectations placed on men insofar as they effect women, which is basically why it's called toxic masculinity rather than internalised misandry.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/22 03:12 PM
47

Haven't watched the video yet, (mainly because I do not have high hopes for it) but "fragile" is specifically chosen to leverage the expectation that men should be strong, protective providers. It shames men for not fitting this expectation. The caricature of women on the other hand is as fragile, but this is seen as a good thing, with the fragility being more "pure"/"angelic" (I'm not sure on the wording here, hopefully people get what I mean). So it does not really have the same effect.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/22 10:16 AM
1

I don't really agree, if they intend that and nothing else then they're being short-sighted, but fair enough.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/22 09:44 PM
1

Even if that were true, it wouldn't be the point - playing on people's subscription to these norms, without making it clear that you are trying to show that they are ridiculous, (something like "well, that'd mean...") is condoning their existence.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/22 04:05 PM
1

I don't see how it doesn't criticise their lifestyle. I think the key element of the "neckbeard" image is that they are a socially awkward loner with very few friends. The appearance just complements that.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/22 04:01 PM
18

I know the word is often used innocently, but if someone goes on about "equity", I become suspicious and immediately clock it as either wokeism or corporations flirting with wokeism.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/22 03:51 PM
2

This is very obviously not true. Unironically, step outside and talk to women. Most are normal people and do not really hate men. Obviously, if you look at certain left-wing spaces misandrists will be more common. But in the grand scheme of things these are fringe. A lot of the misandry online is performative, done to fit into certain social groups and impress certain people. (it is also said in an abstract sense without linking what's being said to men in their life) In my experience most are p…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/03/22 09:29 PM
1

To be fair, we don't conclusively know this yet, it is still just a theory.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/03/22 10:14 AM
1

But this is "should", I read your post as "necessarily must"
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/22 07:25 PM
2

> they aren't perfect oposites Does anyone think they are?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/22 03:41 PM
39

Theres not really much to say about it. It's blindingly obvious that the reason why TERFs are suspicious of and dislike trans women is because in their view they are predatory men trying to do various things to get one up on women. (infiltrate women's spaces, dissolve the class of women, trivialising womanhood, cement gender roles, etc.) Trans men present no such threat, to them they are women that have been indoctrinated to reject womanhood. I always feel people who characterise it otherwise ar…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/22 10:46 AM
1

Fair enough, I had only just saw your stuff below and edited accordingly
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/02/22 10:12 AM
1

I didn't mean people don't talk about it, I've seen plenty of stuff on black men/white women. I meant that people do not seem to properly link it to misandristic stereotypes, (which they would have to identify as pathological in some way, which they don't want to do) and portray it wholly as a racism issue. Good to hear there's more people doing it this way than I initially thought
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/02/22 10:08 AM
12

There's a lot of nonsense people say. A lot of people I've spoken to have swallowed the "white cis men are the best off" line a bit too hard, to the point that they also insist they (white men) are best off in places like police interactions too which is just a bit hilarious. Their world view is set up so that they simply cannot admit scenarios where white women have it best, it must always be white cis men and as you "scale back" those adjectives it gets worse. It's obviously not as simple as t…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/02/22 11:11 PM
25

It's a nice concept and would be great if it were applied properly, but to them eg. "the intersection of gender and racism" basically just means "the intersection of misogyny and racism", despite the fact the definite existence of racialised misandry, especially with black and Asian men. If you ask these "feminists" this, they'll just say without a hint of irony "but that's a race problem !!!". The recognition of black misandry is emerging to be fair, Ibram X Kendi talks about it in his how to b…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/02/22 05:42 PM
2

C is basically a meme
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/02/22 11:15 PM
1

Gender-based advocacy for men
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/02/22 11:13 PM
3

I never identified as a feminist, and continue to not identify as a feminist due to the unfettered misandry in feminist communities. Couldn't find any that don't have at least a healthy dose.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/02/22 10:09 AM
13

lol imagine having your life ruined by an abusive woman and being told "ok but think of all that male privilege you have to fall back on"
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/02/22 10:07 AM
8

Fair enough. I said that because I was under the impression that in adult circumcision proper consent is usually obtained. Sad to read that's not always the case.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/02/22 10:09 AM
43

In babies or young children, violation of bodily autonomy. Even while the benefits are questionable, it remains a non-starter because of the lack of consent. There is some pressure (not sure how to quantify how much) to get circumcised from people that fetishise circumcised penises.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/02/22 12:15 AM
5

on her wikipedia page In my experience [the CIA] was completely different from its image; it was liberal, nonviolent and honorable my sides have shot off into orbit
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/02/22 02:07 PM
29

trying to comfort his girlfriend because she was upset someone slept with him Fucking hell, what a narcissist. Imagine the person most valuable to you having a possibly-life-altering probably-traumatic experience and making it all about yourself.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/02/22 11:07 PM
30

/u/radioactive-subjects couldn't have said it better myself. Semantics are absolutely important. Especially considering that semantics are an absolutely colossal problem with how these feminist subs often "treat" mens rights issues. (no quantifiers to be seen, rhetorical trickery, full of unnecessarily charged language that belittles even victimised/marginalised men and implies that they are somehow inherently defective) The line that if you don't agree with someone, then you must be unintellige…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/02/22 06:11 PM
29

It's because it's looking from the perspective of women. The focus is on how women are effected. At least it's not the "fragile masculinity" bullshit that plays directly on gender roles. Then you have the fact that "coward" is virtually a gendered slur.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/02/22 05:57 PM
3

yeah thats fair enough
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/02/22 12:03 AM
7

In a very broad sense - most people are. Those that do desire for change most often seek change do so within the current economic/political systems. Don't see why women are more likely and this toes the line of the "generalising women" rule, if not crossing it. I wouldn't really think it answers the question in the OP anyway.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/02/22 10:36 PM
2

Most?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/02/22 09:09 PM
1

even a stopped clock is right twice a day
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/02/22 08:53 PM
17

It's a clever/stupid trap. "It's an incel/RW talking point" - ok, but is it correct or incorrect? You've strongly insinuated that it's wrong, or framed wrongly, (sometimes "talking points" are correct things framed in an extremely charged way) but will not engage with it beyond "these bad people say it" as you say. They don't seem to take the same care with what they say, they will obsess over the order of your words and then shit out the most lazily constructed quantifier-deprived "argument" th…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/02/22 11:44 AM
1

equal access
/r/AntiFeminists03/02/22 04:11 PM
-1

Not really what I said.
/r/AntiFeminists03/02/22 03:42 PM
3

Could you give an example you think holds true for every member of a group?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/02/22 03:37 PM
16

It's not so simple, because this type of thinking is the backbone of literally all bigotry. If you lose the ability to generalise based on an immutable characteristic, there is literally nothing left. Everyone is the main character of their own world, and their experiences shape how they view it. You view everything locally, it is extremely hard to get balanced "global" views. Indeed, your global views are often completely at odds with your local ones. Generalisations should ideally be no more t…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/02/22 12:20 PM
3

While they type like they're 13 years old, there's a decent amount of TRP stuff here.
/r/AntiFeminists02/02/22 10:38 PM
-10

fucking hell, rule 1, 2? also consider the fact that women didn't have equal access to education until recently-ish, which at least partially accounts for most scientific advancements being by men. (influential female scientists started appearing, in small numbers in the mid-late 19th century) remains to be seen what it'll look like at the end of this century.
/r/AntiFeminists02/02/22 10:29 PM
2

I'm struggling to find impact's post on this (forgot when it was posted and it's possible it's been deleted, idk), but here is another example of disinformation that reached at least a quarter of a million people: https://www.instagram.com/p/CF-PJgNHrRO/ It is not hard to find similar posts that received a lot of exposure. Edit: given up, can't see it, sorry, hopefully it's immaterial to my point. My point is that you see 90-something% everywhere and "Internet feminists" that have the opportunit…
/r/AntiFeminists02/02/22 07:47 PM
2

I'm not intending to defend this subreddit since it is very low quality. Personally I think I fall between LWMA and menslib but I don't know of any intermediate space. I don't like the premise of menslib. There are ways in which mainstream feminism fails men, (feminism is not obliged to help men obviously, but people often position feminism as the movement working towards gender equality, so it has promised as much) and there's plenty to discuss about patriarchy theory. Menslib shuts down these …
/r/AntiFeminists02/02/22 07:23 PM
15

There is no room for men's advocacy. Even menslib, the most moderate mens rights forum the internet has possibly ever seen, is being shit on in that thread for not being feminist enough. It'll always come down to "MRAs are inherently misogynistic because the loudest ones are". If you ask "why don't you create a space for men yourself?" to the ones complaining about menslib, they'll probably say that feminism automatically covers men's rights as a result of advocating for women. There is no winni…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/02/22 10:59 AM
1

If people don't know then it doesn't create mistrust. I would feel like I'm violating a partner if I recorded them without their knowledge without them having done anything wrong. If you get caught and give them "don't worry, I'm just recording so if you abuse me and try to make a false accusation I have some evidence against that in court", they're either going to assume you either need some sort of help (ie. have some kind of trauma [*], a serious anxiety disorder, persecutory delusions, etc. …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/02/22 01:46 PM
2

Play on the fact that they have outed themselves as gender critical/a TERF. Unless you are GC - in which case it's a bit pot kettle black.
/r/AntiFeminists31/01/22 11:10 PM
1

Probably porn or just sex-positivity in general. These types of radical feminist are usually traditionalist prudes. I wouldn't bother checking that sub unless you want exposure to extremely-late-stage misandristic radical "feminism".
/r/AntiFeminists31/01/22 10:39 PM
2

cdc is the national public health agency of the US (kind of surprised you haven't hard since CDC's NISVS gets quoted here quite often :p)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/01/22 01:56 PM
6

Good post. I'm glad that I've seen plenty of people in the wild stand up to this, but it is not as uncontroversial as it should be.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/01/22 12:55 PM
6

I wouldn't say "always". If you feel something dodgy starting to brew, or abuse is already happening, taking care to preserve logs and recording incidents of abuse is good advice. But I don't like the mistrust it creates by doing it as default.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/01/22 04:21 PM
1

I mentioned MRAs because of the intersection with this sub (ie. of its members) but you are of course right.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/01/22 04:17 PM
1

Oh without a doubt. I think it's a case of a loud minority ruining it for everyone.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/01/22 04:02 PM
18

I don't think the average person would say this so bluntly, to be fair.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/01/22 02:46 PM
6

I think it's againstmenrights as in against the subreddit mensrights. Though I'm not surprised if it's both in practice.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/01/22 01:54 PM
16

I think it's a lack of communication in a lot of cases. Some people feel that their partner will "catch on" to things and everything will magically fall in to place. A little bit of bluntness and honest conversation would go a long way.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/01/22 01:32 PM
26

Try to identify manipulative personalities and general shittiness early on. Won't just help on the false accusations front, but also avoiding toxic relationship dynamics generally. I consistently fail at this - so I'm probably not one to talk...
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/01/22 01:04 PM
1

I think that subreddit is decent tbh. But the radfem mod team iirc disowned it as some sort of misogynist circlejerk lmao
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/01/22 12:44 PM
21

I get what you mean, it sometimes feels like the men's advocacy is an afterthought, or kind of like a tool to "own the radfems". There's good points (I don't think it's hard to decry misandry!) but I don't like the overall tone and the comments.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/01/22 10:39 PM
2

Since this sub is ridiculously low effort, I will give it a go. I don't expect you to read this or reply to it. I'm concerned about the aggressive tone of MRAs Firstly, this doesn't really give someone an excuse to discard the men's rights movement. People should address gender inequalities as they see them, regardless of their experiences with said gender. Ditto race, ditto sexuality. Unfortunately men's rights advocacy has been leveraged by the far-right, and much of what people see of men's r…
/r/AntiFeminists29/01/22 08:32 PM
3

I wonder when this slides into genuine persecutory delusion. I don't think it's remotely healthy to be this suspicious of everyone around you.
/r/AntiFeminists29/01/22 07:45 PM
2

This sub seems to just meet ridiculous generalisation with ridiculous generalisation.
/r/AntiFeminists29/01/22 07:39 PM
1

Goalposts shifted, clearly if huge companies start spilling the beans we're all fucked. That wasn't what we were talking about, we were talking about amateur detectives tracking down "gotchas" for an internet argument.
/r/AntiFeminists25/01/22 11:34 AM
2

I see, fair enough
/r/AntiFeminists25/01/22 01:42 AM
3

I never used the word anonymous. Unless you have done something properly fucked up or are very high profile, people will not be making obscure connections between Reddit accounts in order to track you down. All for a singular dunk. If someone is looking for a cheap "ha you use this sub opinion discarded" you can avoid those criticisms by using certain accounts for certain subreddits and not posting about very similar things on each account.
/r/AntiFeminists25/01/22 01:36 AM
1

I've just got here and I don't like what I see, so I don't think I'd be around for long. I'm surprised I got here from LWMA considering this more resembles r slash mensrights with the misogyny/transphobia/sex negativity cranked.
/r/AntiFeminists24/01/22 11:40 PM
4

The OP deserves criticism. They are telling people that porn addiction is the problem. They're not merely suggesting it might be and opening up a dialogue around it, they are stating it as objective truth based on caricatures of men they have drawn. The post is just garbage at that point.
/r/AntiFeminists24/01/22 10:58 PM
2

in which case it was programmed to make that change from the start This is pulled out of nowhere. It's unfalsifiable - you can contemplate your beliefs and change your mind, but then you can just retort "well, you were destined to do that!", and you can't disprove it. So it's impossible to engage.
/r/AntiFeminists24/01/22 10:53 PM
2

Use a throwaway account for talking about contentious issues. Keep online identities largely separate. I thought this was internet privacy 101.
/r/AntiFeminists24/01/22 10:38 PM
4

>The leading cause of ED is probably porn addiction You can say this, and it can make some sense, but that doesn't mean it's true. You can't prove this fact by thought experiments, you would have to go out and do some kind of scientific research.
/r/AntiFeminists24/01/22 10:37 PM
2

While I disagree with a lot of your post history, I agree that using misogyny against disagreeable feminists is not the way to go. It's the mirror image of certain feminists calling men they don't like virgins, (or body shaming) etc.
/r/AntiFeminists24/01/22 10:30 PM
1

Focus on the "way easier" rather than the "easier" altogether.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/01/22 10:21 PM
20

If you have ADD, you're pretty much guaranteed to fail a task that you're not motivated to perform no matter how simple it is. Ableism stops being ableism when it's combined with misandry, we all know this.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/01/22 02:32 PM
1

All noted
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/01/22 02:20 PM
5

I think you’re assuming way too much. Well my post is full of if buts and maybes, so I don't really assume much. I'm spitballing possibilities. I'm not really going to tell a possible victim something definitive when I only have a few paragraphs to work with. Having thought about it I'm leaning towards it being unfortunate circumstances. Drinking isn’t this magical drug that makes you do things you don’t want to do sometimes you’re on a date, you drink with someone, you both are into it and it’s…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/01/22 07:37 PM
10

I don't think we really have enough information either way. The key is that he was drunk and his judgement was possibly impaired as a result. It's possible it meant he couldn't find the words to say no. It's unclear how lucid he was and if their levels of drunkedness/impairment were similar, to me those are important factors. If two people are basically equally drunk and make a decision they both regret, to me that's blameless, but if one is significantly more drunk than the other, the sober one…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/01/22 06:32 PM
12

People who are truly sexually assaulted have no doubt. If someone is unsure, they almost assuredly were not assaulted. Date rape drugs and other mental impairments being an exception. was especially revolting, considering a fuckton of men don't recognise their experiences as rape, particularly if raped by a woman. Also "he chose to drink so has to lump the consequences of what other people do to him while drunk" (paraphrasing), seriously? I very much hope a feminist sub doesn't latch onto this a…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/01/22 06:26 PM
1

Alright
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/01/22 05:36 PM
3

I said what I said. What you refer to as "radfem" isn't. It's mainstream. It's just what it's called as far as I'm aware. If my definition of radical feminism is off I'm welcome to correction. That's like saying the kkk is just about community values. It overlooks a significant core function of what the group's ideals are. I don't think this is a good equivalence. You're comparing a group of political ideologies to one specific organisation. Naturally being a member of the KKK is going to be mor…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/01/22 04:52 PM
3

The OP is talking about in theory, not in practice, though. It was basically asking "if in theory you took away misandry from feminism, what would it look like?". Which is why I don't think people are engaging with the question properly. As I said in my post - it'd look like feminism without misandry. I don't see them as inseparable. If there ever were offshoots that were actually egalitarian and didn't blame men, then they have lost traction and significance. I do hope there's a time where peop…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/01/22 02:35 PM
2

By radfem I mean "radical feminist", which afaik basically means the feminist ideology rooted in patriarchy theory. I agree with your assessment, there isn't enough condemnation of misandrists from feminists that believe in egalitarianism. This is tangential to what I said though. I wouldn't identify as a feminist. My mind is fucked up by Twitter to the point where I don't really know what makes the majority any more, bear in mind. I'm not equating feminism with women, I was talking about the "g…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/01/22 11:38 AM
4

Huh? Saying "women's advocacy without feminism" is like saying "men's advocacy without MRAs". I don't understand what you're getting at. Misandry is not inherent to feminism, it's just highly correlated.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/01/22 11:24 AM
21

Excellent compilation, very enlightening The "more likely to get arrested than their abusers" is a powerful talking point
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/01/22 12:08 AM
2

Your post doesn't really explain why it's not possible, just that it hasn't happened yet.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/01/22 11:57 PM
2

blm inclusive republicans Not really - the interests of men and women don't conflict in that way. If anything this feeds into the awful "gender war" narrative that radfems try to push. The body of the post says something different to the title but the OP is asking if productive women's advocacy is possible without misandry, and the answer to me is "obviously".
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/01/22 09:09 PM
2

It's obviously possible. It isn't hard to advocate for women without denigrating men. Plenty manage it, it's not like there isn't feminist condemnation of misandry. I have no problem in theory in having separate advocacy groups for men and women. But the problem comes that one will always be riled up against the other, so I'm not sure if a partitioned approach will ever work properly. I don't even really know what to say about this - it'd look like highlighting problems that women face while pro…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/01/22 08:58 PM
10

There is a significant online "woke" presence in the UK, but I question whether it's always genuine. Plenty of people who act like they'd never be seen dead with a Tory actually don't really care irl. Some misandrists online (shitting out statements about men with no quantifiers to speak of) happily get on with men irl, it just seems all very fake to me for something that's so societally damaging. I think there's a relatively small group of people who hold these views in earnest, and everyone is…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/01/22 08:08 PM
2

It's very common among educated middle-aged women I think. Younger people you get more of your woke-style radical feminism.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/01/22 02:43 PM
3

I sense the retort would be "it's because women are more careful". Strong assumption that men have very little concern for their safety and would happily skip down alleyways at 3am.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/01/22 01:02 PM
22

A lot of the outraged replies seem to be from TERFs, which makes a lot of sense. Loads of "adult human female" and "prioritising women because of their SEX". (their emphasis not mine) So the response is to be expected, I guess. They are almost best known for benevolent misogyny second to transphobia/misandry. This applies to all threads on this: the egregious part to me is the assumption that men are all able-bodied and aside from that capable of defending themselves (I wouldn't be). It's not li…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/01/22 10:03 PM
3

Fair enough
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/01/22 07:09 PM
7

I think this is an unnecessarily hostile response. They (mostly?) didn't climb on a high horse and tell us how bigoted or ignorant they were, it was quite level, though I disagree with quite a lot of it. You said feminism is mostly pro male, and that its only "a few bad apples" who are anti male. This indicates that you either dont know much about feminism, or you care about women a lot more than men. Feminist spaces on Reddit are largely like this, but I know of genuinely egalitarian feminists,…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/01/22 05:24 PM
23

Sorry for the downvotes and I hope it doesn't put you off participating. Since then I've started to realize that some of these issues are not like the ways MRAs fearmonger about them "MRA" like "feminist" is a broad range. It ranges from misogynists to egalitarians, just as feminism ranges from misandrists (and benevolent misogynists) to egalitarians. I'd encourage the use of quantifiers here to make it clear who you are talking about. I know radical feminism avoids proper quantifiers if at all …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/01/22 05:02 PM
2

Yeah you're left in an impossible position, because you'd then have to give reasons why they might've killed their partner, not motivated by misogyny. Essentially trying to justify someone's murder, which obviously you can't do, so it's just something you have to nod through because it's impossible to argue against.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/01/22 07:17 PM
3

There's an element of "give them enough rope". They are literal lightyears away from how the vast majority of people think, so surely it's only a matter of time before they talk themselves into irrelevance? At some point, people will decide that enough is enough. I genuinely think that it'll be radical feminism that causes the death of radical feminism. Is this wishful thinking?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/01/22 11:15 AM
6

My understanding of femicide is that it is when women are killed by men because of their gender, with misogynistic intent. The latter point is often left dubious.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/01/22 11:02 AM
20

It also insinuates that men had some responsibility for their murder doesn't it? That's the subtext I always read when it's said that women who are killed are senselessly killed because of their gender, whereas with men there must be some sense or reason to it. Apart from that being a strange reason, I've seen people talk about femicide when women have been killed in indiscriminate shootings.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/01/22 11:01 AM
36

I think the idea is that men is a broad enough group to be chastised collectively without repercussion, (and I think often when they think "man", they think cis/white/heterosexual/etc. man and ignore that they're implicating them too) whereas black men are not. Incidentally, I feel like caring about racialised misandry (ie. when gender and racial stereotypes compound - particularly of Asian and black men) is a good "gateway drug" into caring about men's issues for these people that only care abo…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/01/22 10:50 PM
48

"b...but that's not the same!"
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/01/22 10:38 PM
8

Tbqh, I don't know anywhere else like this subreddit and it's sister subs. They're either too hard woke or too hard right.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/01/22 10:32 PM
16

Notice how they're not really arguing with you, they are trying to use rhetorical traps and tricks in order to circumvent your point. So much for "activism".
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/01/22 10:27 PM
54

They've dug themselves into a deep trench. To them, men and women are opposite sides of a war. Men hurting men is "friendly fire" and none of their concern. It doesn't contradict their "men need to do better" in their perspective, but that "men don't know what it's like" is utterly inconsistent. To say men don't know what it's like to be the victim of violence is so utterly bonkers. There is a clear insinuation that these men were somehow at fault for their death. I have literally heard someone …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/01/22 10:25 PM
0

Unsure about the word "sex" here. I guess "privileged because of your sex/AGAB" and "privileged because of your gender" are separate questions? The short answer is "in a couple of areas". I would not say men are leagues apart from women, day-to-day there is very little difference. The main way I feel I'm "privileged" is that I feel like I'm less likely to experience catcalling and (at least certain types of) sexual harassment from random strangers. Indeed these things haven't happened to me yet.…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/01/22 10:08 PM
2

Ngl I don't have high hopes when Carl "I wouldn't even rape her" Benjamin is the top comment with "Tim, I think Bernie Sanders speaks for all of us here: "The American people are tired of women!", even putting aside the title. We should be rejecting right-wing idpol, I'd suggest this post is more at home on r/mensrights
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/01/22 07:21 PM
9

This graph shows very clearly This is outdated - GCSEs have moved back to minimising coursework and teachers are back to having lesser influence on grades. We saw a widening of the gender gap when we relied on teacher evaluations: https://www.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/p2p4hx/girls_set_to_increase_gcse_lead_over_boys_and_we/ which suggests teacher bias prevails, though.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/01/22 06:34 PM
2

No idea, I'm more speaking about principle. Ideally the industry will be legitimised so at least the latter isn't a worry.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/01/22 04:29 PM
1

Yeah to be quite honest, when an article is posted (on Facebook or Reddit or otherwise) it usually turns into a general forum for that issue, and the actual context is pushed aside. I'm guilty of this, I didn't read what she was convicted for. Agree with everything you said.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/01/22 12:48 PM
1

Viewing someone as a sex object without their consent/mutual understanding is bad no matter the gender. It is a gender equality issue that effects both men and women and just falls under treating others with respect. But in any relationship, at some point, you will see your partner as a means for sex, even if it's just acute in moments of excitement, it's not really as blanket as "objectification bad". > use prostitutes? If they are trafficked, definitely not. And I'd feel bad if they were in po…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/01/22 12:32 PM
11

Eh, the top Facebook comments are saying "keep on jailing them, but care needs to be improved" (maybe having specialised units) which is the right response here. But there is the odd person suggesting pregnant women should be essentially immune from justice unless they do something particularly despicable, and that people "lack compassion" for not being benevolent misogynists. Obviously if prison is to be phased out, then it should be entirely gender-neutral.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/01/22 12:19 PM
4

I'm bad at judging these proportions. The most empathetic people I know are women, some fitting the kind of "mum friend" type and are hard to dislike, but on average I have never felt a significant difference. The people who I connect deeply with are generally potential romantic partners who have all been women so far, so this may also skew it. I've known one woman who did not like displays of emotion from possible partners (someone who I was interested in at the time, didn't work out for other …
/r/EverydayMisandry14/01/22 12:27 AM
1

She hits all of my favourite fadfem talking points. No real substantive points, just empty rhetoric.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/01/22 10:09 PM
7

To be fair, iirc Pedro Domingos was slow to provide sources and the sources he gave didn't exactly match what he claimed. They were also decades old. He didn't go through it methodically and reference literature along the way, he just shat out some provocative statements and got the expected results, and then once the wildfire was already raging he started to think about giving sources. He might be right, and some people might think it's "obvious", but is the research there to make such categori…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/01/22 06:57 PM
41

"How would that happen" (~9 mins ish) lol, what the fuck is wrong with this person? This goes beyond your usual "nice person caught up in misandry-lite (I mean this in terms of social acceptability) pop feminism", this is a complete lack of empathy for men. How do you get there as a reasonable, fairly intelligent and supposedly rational human being? Mind boggles. I am glad that the first thing you get when you search "mary koss misandrist" is a feminist subreddit condemning her. (https://np.redd…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/01/22 06:38 PM
5

I can't really be bothered living life suspicious of anything a woman tells me, taking the position of "they'll admit to thinking like this or they're lying". I know plenty of women that do not fit this mould. You could say they've all deceived me, but what then? Doesn't seem like a very fulfilling worldview to buy in to. I don't really buy into "hard-coded instincts". They might exist, but do not seem very important, frequently these instincts are betrayed. (existence of dominant women, submiss…
/r/EverydayMisandry13/01/22 06:04 PM
9

I feel quite lucky in that I couldn't give a fuck what such misandrists thinks about me.
/r/EverydayMisandry13/01/22 03:17 PM
8

I don't really think there's a point in taking any of these numbers too seriously, because they'll still be effected by under-reporting and problems with extrapolation. Those surveys are aging a bit too, (when you consider that 2010 was the first ever survey [afaik] considering male victimisation properly, 10 years is probably quite a big difference) hopefully there'll be fresher data at some point. The point that should be focused on is that men are victimised by women at non-trivial rates. The…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/01/22 01:19 PM
17

Both? If you look through the thread there's plenty of misandristic tropes to supplement the initial tweet. She had the opportunity to condemn this kind of thinking but instead clings on to it for dear life and jumps through rhetorical hoops to try to justify herself. She's totally unapologetic about this, and doesn't really recognise how it could be construed as misandry, definitely reflects on her views on men in general. Her attempted reassurance is empty to me.
/r/EverydayMisandry13/01/22 12:26 AM
14

I would say that it's misandry, as is anything that tries to push gendered expectations on men. Sorry if this is rant-ish, but I probably should have explained why I identified this as misandry. Some suspect sentences: there are times when it is warranted for a man to cry in front of a female potential partner Suggesting that anyone has the right to dictate whether a man crying is "warranted" or "unwarranted". She isn't even wording this in terms of what's attractive to her, she is saying that c…
/r/EverydayMisandry12/01/22 11:59 PM
17

While it's disheartening to see the 1K likes, it is quite reassuring to see a substantial number of people are not buying it at all and are rightfully calling her out for her reinforcing of gendered expectations and total lack of empathy.
/r/EverydayMisandry12/01/22 11:36 PM
1

Happy to hear it, ideally she would have been locked up for longer.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/01/22 11:13 PM
6

Has anyone ever rejected or broken up with you because you were a male advocate I would never identify as a "male advocate" - people would read that as "misogynist". (or the I word) I don't make much effort to hide that I disagree with radical feminism as an ideology, most people haven't really cared. That, and "wokeism" in general is more concerned with manipulation and rhetorical tricks/traps than measured, convincing arguments. The more I've been exposed to it, the worse I think of it. Tellin…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/01/22 11:03 PM
0

many men's issues are because of feminism I really don't think this is a) the case and b) gives a very good image to say. The worst thing that is done under the guise of feminism is downplaying men's issues and actively pushing against men's rights. They exacerbate issues by telling well-meaning people that they don't exist, are extremely minimal, or are automatically dealt with by fixing gender inequalities that women face. But (people identifying as) feminists didn't really actively create any…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/01/22 10:51 PM
7

It's something that on the face of it seems benign, but when you ask the question "why wouldn't you date a bi guy?" can reveal some ugly beliefs. As much as people may be entitled not to date a particular group, I have no issue judging people who don't do so because of biphobic/homophobic stereotypes. If they "just can't imagine being attracted to someone who likes men", I'd just think that's a bit weird, if they started to talk about fears of cheating or that they're somehow "confused", in the …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/01/22 10:41 PM
24

It's still possible disproportionately many people coming forward to these helplines were abused by men because of how abuse by women is still stigmatised. Isn't unimaginable to me that a given person could feel comfortable reporting a man who abused them, and not a woman. It would be interesting if they had any stats.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/01/22 03:19 PM
3

Could you explain what you mean by "male lens"?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/01/22 09:15 PM
6

Well, it's who you're competing with, and who you'll meet if you try to talk about this in the open air. To those who already struggle to empathise with men due to the caricature they've created in their head, I think they'll just read this as "think of the poor men's feelings" and disregard it out of hand. I don't think it's a very strong talking point that respect. >Or it means lifting up society's view of men! It'll involve that. The root of benevolent misogyny is not misandry though. It's no…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/01/22 04:29 PM
3

It's whack because spice exists largely because weed is illegal. The continued development of noids is in response to bans, and afaik the safety profile is getting worse the more are banned. If we accept the health consequences of alcohol as "fine", (in the quantities drunk by many teens and young adults, it's very much not) we really have no excuse not to legalise weed at least.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/01/22 03:22 PM
2

Luckily I think in the next decade or two the tides might really turn on this, I feel like we're near an apex, maybe just my wishful thinking, but I think the bullshit is being seen through more and more. Atm, I'd probably vote Libdem because they're actually willing to take a bold position on drugs. But then again, it's quite safe for them to do so being a third party, who's to say they won't change their tune if they ever have actual power to lose.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/01/22 03:21 PM
25

Honestly I think to the worst of the radfems, this will do nothing. Their response will probably be something like "awwww poor you, look at what women have to go through". Think of "misogyny kills, misandry irritates", they view misandry as a reaction to misogyny that is practically ineffectual. You have to play the game of identity and vulnerability, and try to introduce consideration of gender (men being effected by gendered expectations on them, not just men being effected indirectly by misog…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/01/22 02:54 PM
27

lmfao any excuse UK seems very confused on what they want to do with drug policy. On the one hand the politicians love their cocaine, on the other Bojo wants to "crack down on middle-class drug users", weed is basically becoming unofficially decriminalised, (Sadiq Khan rightly wanting to make this official in London) but we still get ragebait about nitrous oxide. It's pretty clear the drugs are just a tool for manipulation at this point, (I guess they always were) a rapidly vanishing proportion …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/01/22 02:23 PM
2

>I don't blame women for my loneliness As you shouldn't - my point is that some people think their problem is with women when it's just because intimate relationships are the most demanding thing of the skills they lack. (I know this is a bit of a clumsy way of putting it) They struggle enough making friends and then relationships are just that bit harder. Don't have much to say as to the rest. I do agree that people are eager to generalise. It isn't helped by the "progressive" urge to obsessive…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/01/22 02:38 PM
0

mgtow is far worse imho
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/01/22 12:16 AM
13

I think the misogynists in those subcultures have been far more well-publicised than the men who are simply lonely and frustrated. When most people hear the word "incel", they'll think of that. Obviously specifically using it as an insult takes that one step further.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/01/22 01:48 PM
2

Afaik, that requires very broad generalisations on female behaviour that are patently misogynistic. There are enough women out there (the vast majority in my circles, but they're not really "normie" ones) that don't fit the tropes you're thinking of. It's easy to say but if all the women you know are vapid, materialistic, self-centred, etc., you're looking at the wrong people.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/01/22 01:32 PM
5

Agree - anything that says "I really don't want be to single, but I am" will have this problem. You need a more positive spin on it.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/01/22 01:22 PM
16

"lonely men", "socially excluded men" etc. Usually the problems don't start and stop with their relations with women and it reflects a more "global" social difficulty (maybe because of autism, maybe because of particular upbringing, maybe just plain eccentricity) and the romantic relationship part is just the most distressing aspect. Anything that says "single but not out of choice" will attract accusations of entitlement as you say and aren't really tenable. "Looking, but haven't found the righ…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/01/22 01:19 PM
13

I don't really agree with that. My problem is that "toxic masculinity" blames men for the consequences of gendered expectations on them. (being painted as a perpetuator [idk if that's a word]) Whereas with "internalised misogyny", women are the victim of these expectations even if they actively push these expectations on others. The "women victims, men aggressors" line pervades all this. For example if a woman said awful things about other women (criticising them for not aligning with gender rol…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/01/22 01:06 PM
11

I presume words no longer have meaning to people making such arguments, just string together random buzzwords and hope something sticks. You could try to argue that "capitalism tends to bring about patriarchy/misogyny/etc." but saying "capitalism literally cannot exist without patriarchy/misogyny/etc." seems very obviously wrong. (but is such an astronomical take I'm not sure how to address it)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/01/22 12:57 PM
1

Oh my God! I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed the ableism there. The other thing that bothers me are the classist undertones connected with a lot of their rhetoric. I remember a particularly painful debate, I won't mention the exact wording since it might identify me - but basically they were implying that men collectively were conspiring to eradicate women. (see "femicide") They really doubled down on the fact that it was the collective of men doing this and went into some detail, until …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/01/22 01:09 AM
3

Admittedly I haven't read much of what he has to say, just what came to mind when I saw his name. He seems to have very close proximity to the "Twitter feminists" that this sub especially doesn't like. I try to avoid those types unless a friend RTs them. Might give the video a watch later.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/01/22 12:46 AM
1

I've definitely been on the receiving end of the kind of feminist you describe. There is a section of progressives with noble cause, but flawed ideology and manipulative execution. (also very keen on stigmatising things like low intelligence when it suits them) I call this type of progressive "woke", I hope I'm not misunderstood as some raging right-winger by using that designation. But I see the feminism you describe as an extension of that. I also like how you talk about self-described feminis…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/01/22 12:35 AM
7

Many of the objectionable feminists are fairly nice people that get caught up. There is a sizeable proportion of them that are genuinely terrible people and actively lead others astray but they are nowhere near the majority. Even those that are insufferable on internet debate have more normal views irl. Some even flip - I know a few people who post quite "woke" stuff and then hang around with (or even date) rightlibs, and on the extreme end idolise traditionalism in private, or even make misogyn…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/01/22 09:04 PM
14

Plenty of so-called "feminists" are just terrible people. Someone I spoke to argued that because she had experience with internet misogynists, that she shouldn't be expected to care about men's issues. That is, disregarding the issues of over half the population due to experience with a few people. Would not be acceptable with almost any other demographic and it shows a very selective empathy. I frankly don't care that they often drop this act in real life and wouldn't dare say this to a real ra…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/01/22 08:42 PM
6

>As someone who I see as having a respectable position on other things Tentatively I doubt this is the case for other people on this sub. Not too sure though. This sort of view makes perfect sense from him, from my limited exposure to him.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/01/22 08:28 PM
9

There's some of the opposite going on too - black men suffer as a combination of their race and gender, but people are very insistent that it is exclusively a race issue, and that gender roles play no part. A few mainstream figures like Ibram X Kendi recognise black misandry, though. People may not like him but he made a good point about the image of the violent man being summed with the image of a violent, disorderly black person to get a "hyper-violent" black man. Ignoring this component leads…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/01/22 08:26 PM
25

I don't think the problem is that most victims are men - the problem is that men and women are seen as two sides of a war, and that male on male violence is effectively "friendly fire" and something to be dealt with between men. Which basically says men bring it upon themselves, victim-blaming. Then there's the weird "re-casting" which portrays violence against women as inherently misogynistic, and that the only reason one may wish to do harm to a woman is because she is a woman, and you harbour…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/01/22 08:17 PM
7

If you read it as domestic violence, then you're right - saying "most victims" of intimate partner violence are men is just as bad as saying most are women, both are effected in massive numbers and there's no contest. I think "men get raped in significant numbers too" is a far better message to carry forward since it makes no comparisons. But this is talking about overall when combined with different types of violence.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/01/22 08:13 PM
2

Do you live in Eastern Europe? I can't see this being the case in the US or UK etc.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/10/21 11:57 AM
2

Oh I remember that. I don't think it'd be as "on-the-nose" though? I definitely could not imagine, if the situation were flipped, it being played off in the same way. Dunno, maybe I'm wrong here.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/10/21 12:53 PM
4

Only tangentially related I guess: something that comes to mind is Mark getting raped by Natalie in Peep Show. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtxK7wNUBPk, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UIIiYunMQk) It's played off more light-heartedly were it to be the other way around (I don't think a man raping a woman would be played off comedically), but you could see it as highlighting the way this sort of thing is trivialised. It's the only example of female-on-male sexual violence I can think of. (and…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/10/21 09:50 AM
12

I'm sure The Narrative will be that feminists (mainly "feminists" with air quotes) pretty much unanimously fought in favour of recognising male victims and never downplayed their abuse and/or quoted 93%. (or that their activism was gender-neutral in the first place and men were automatically helped equally) Those who didn't were a vast minority and not real feminists. "Yes, by other men" will be a distant memory. Oh well
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/10/21 08:22 PM
23

probably worse relatively speaking. women started off a lot worse off and have vastly improved while the position of men has pretty much meandered. it's now become much more situational whether men or women have the advantage. definitely lagging behind women in terms of recognition of abuse. I expect to see turning points there in the next few decades though. as men feel increasingly comfortable coming out about it the naysayers will fade away, and then ignorance to abuse of men will probably be…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/10/21 04:34 PM
1

Well if for example if neuroscience produces something that rationalises non-binary/trans identities conclusively for essentialists, then we'd have to roll with that phrasing. (since the common complaint is that we're just basing off feeling, if we do away with that then there's really no excuse) It's a linguistic minefield and honestly I have no real clue how to navigate it.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/10/21 03:14 PM
4

Yeah I think posts like this will be the first to be flagged up by detractors.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/10/21 02:20 PM
2

Calling trans women "male", even though perhaps not technically wrong, (depending on how you define male) is thought to be distasteful, as is reminding them of their birth sex in general. TERFs very rigidly insist on only using "male" and "female" to avoid this.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/10/21 02:17 PM
11

The message is not "dear women, we need women to help men", the message is "everyone needs to care more about and help men". (well, care more about and help everyone for that matter) On average both women and men are more sympathetic to women. So the response is a non-sequitur, and also shits on their claim of egalitarianism.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/10/21 02:12 PM
0

I inferred that he was using "male" and "man" interchangeably, (though I'll delete my other comment in case I'm wrong) though you are right. It then means he wants to get rid of a number of women too, implying that they are somehow tainted by their birth sex or "not real women". (both certainly transphobic) This is while we are trying to work towards treating cis women and trans women as one and the same group, (the ideal being there are just "women" without the need to subdivide them on birth s…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/10/21 11:33 AM
-1

How would stopping the birth of people with penises stop the birth of men? They're equating AMAB people with men.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/10/21 10:24 AM
6

I think a better counterpoint is the seeming lack of an in-group bias among men, versus the profound one among women that's assumed to be carried to men. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women-are-wonderful_effect and so on. There are radfem rationalisations for this (off the top of my head: women needing to stand in solidarity to combat the patriarchy/misogyny, men don't have to care), but it does certainly shut down this point.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/09/21 10:48 PM
1

I would agree that this one goes in too strong, FWIW. I would just point out that there's a lot of gender divides both ways and this one, which boils down to maybe 3 or 4 majors, (not even all of STEM) is unnecessarily focused on.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/08/21 06:26 PM
18

Men as a group (falsely presuming the existence of said group) are not accountable for male politicians, it's more or less that simple. Working class men have more or less nothing to do with the actions of rich people in Ivory towers. That, or I've been missing the AGMs for the Council of Men.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/08/21 10:46 PM
11

It is too obvious for them not to realise. "Transmisogyny" can become double-speak, they are not really motivated by misogyny (though many are benevolent misogynists) because they don't recognise trans women as women. They view them as predatory men trying to infiltrate women's spaces. If you contrast this with their view of trans men, they view them as victims of "gender".
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/08/21 10:22 PM
36

Yeah the problem is that often people say that they are against hate - but take a very abstract stance on it. Hate against "oppressors" is but isn't hate because it's punching up, and so is kind of just retaliation in an ongoing war. How people function believing there is an underlying constant conflict between men & women that pervades everyday interaction I'm not quite sure. An off remark: Reddit demonstrates both ends of the political extreme and I'm always surprised that the vast majority of…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/08/21 10:30 PM
44

I will also add that the last AHS post didn't really identify many problems with the subreddit, it rather said that the arguments were kind of "fishy" and a "pipeline" into misogynistic views. (I assume they think the sub is to reel people in with egalitarian narratives and gradually change these into black-pill-ish ones) Which is not an especially convincing argument. The current mod team does a good job of shooting down any remotely dodgy thing.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/08/21 10:15 PM
22

"Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered ..."
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/08/21 10:05 PM
75

Well this assumes that they believe there is hate. It is much cheaper to merely claim that there's hate, declare "it's everywhere, I can't pick out just one" to discharge the responsiblity of backing up what they say. A user dares to come out and say "well I looked and it seems pretty reasonable" - they stutter and say "well, the posts on there seem reasonable, but I saw a mass-downvoted misogynistic comment in there once, so that shows what they're really about!" or some variation. If these are…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/08/21 09:34 PM
5

>nah, the problem is institutionalised misogyny and we need to combat it with radical feminism Is pretty much the modern "woke" response to "inceldom" closed with the /s >good post. I think the concentration on girls disadvantage in education is weird, considering all the statistics would have you believe the opposite is true Is my reply to the post.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/21 07:13 PM
14

nah, the problem is institutionalised misogyny and we need to combat it with radical feminism /s good post. I think the concentration on girls disadvantage in education is weird, considering all the statistics would have you believe the opposite is true.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/21 05:47 PM
2

I've never experienced this myself (probably because of the people I hung out with - if anything it was the opposite and people were all too eager to compete) but I see vaguely where you're coming from. What do you think the solution is going to be? There may be a more "class-based" explanation for this too, but I don't really know what sort of angle you'd get from that.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/08/21 10:09 PM
4

I am not aware of this happening in England with A-levels
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/08/21 01:24 PM
86

The double standard here is horrific. Any male advantage is evidence of systemic misogyny, female advantage is evidence of the superiority of women.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/08/21 11:46 PM
3

>it would be worthwhile to make a post about it in AgainstHateSubreddits There have been at least 10. https://www.google.com/search?q=AgainstHateSubreddits+femaledatingstrategy+site:www.reddit.com&rlz=1C1GCEA_enGB865GB865&sxsrf=ALeKk02vWxaq5QJeGvkq1lFwl9pSnfwirg:1628250316853&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjK5_aNqZzyAhVQZMAKHXS_BLIQrQIoBHoECAkQBQ&biw=1858&bih=1009 Though it appears the mods don't like it. Most of them focus on the transphobia and homophobia, but I think that's the easiest way to take down misa…
/r/EverydayMisandry06/08/21 11:45 AM
2

That was in jest of course. It all plays into their "benevolent" misogyny, wherein women are delicate, over-emotional, clearly easily manipulated, and to be protected. I am always unsure whether they realise that they are making these implications. Infantalisating people seems to be their forte.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/07/21 10:52 PM
1

"Don't tell me how to raise my kids" refuse to elaborate leave
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/07/21 10:41 PM
1

I did think the whole "high value", "low value" thing originated from that sort of space. They unfortunately validate that sort of worldview, too.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/07/21 09:45 PM
3

Literally talking about someone's girlfriend as if they're his child
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/07/21 04:06 PM
1

This is the right answer in my opinion. These people are not concerned with abolishing social expectations, they just want everyone to adhere to "feminine/female" expectations. (primarily because of how angelic women are depicted to be within these stereotypes, and few negative traits are seen as stereotypically female) Though I don't really like the term "toxic masculinity" personally. Too often it turns out to be antagonising, intentional or otherwise. Some people certainly have a saviour comp…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/07/21 02:47 PM
1

She takes a reasonable argument "we don't need gendered role models" and then corrupts it with "well, actually we do, we need female role models". So actually she doesn't care about gender roles being restrictive, she just wants as many people to adhere to the "feminine" caricature as possible.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/07/21 02:38 PM
2

I think you're agreeing with me in your first paragraph? I agree that it's more or less tautological, but I think it's a good point to make. Again, I mainly intended to highlight them as a significant victim of misandry. I think there is a subtlety here in that maleness runs parallel to, but does not necessarily intersect with masculinity. Similarly with womanhood and femininity. Essentially I see masculinity and femininity as caricatures of how men/women usually, or are expected to, behave. Wit…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/07/21 05:52 PM
3

These were mostly my random thoughts. (often I have so much to say it's hard to form it into something cohesive!) From my interactions with trans men and cis men, trans men seem to identify more closely with maleness whereas with cis men, their gender is mainly background noise they hardly notice. This makes quite a lot of sense when you think about it. Of course, this isn't everyone. I think it's essential to mention trans men when discussing the harm of misandry anyway. I am not saying cis men…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/07/21 04:56 PM
3

This is maybe not a direct answer to your question. I get the impression those harmed most by (at least interpersonal) misandry are trans men, since it is them to whom being a man is most important. I think a lot of other men just suck it up. I would be interested what a trans men would have to say on this. We are finding increasingly many men being ashamed of their gender, feeling the need to apologise for their existence and gender, being assumed dangerous until proven otherwise. Misandristic …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/07/21 11:03 AM
7

It still gives the impression of some united/harmonised group of "men" that doesn't really exist, (because some men have almost incomparably more power than others) I try to be a bit more specific myself. I understand what is meant sure, but I'm uncomfortable with the lack of distinction between the individual and "the collective" that language like that can encourage.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/07/21 10:41 AM
1

could you give me an example of this? i'm not asking you to prove anything, i'm just unaware of what this might be. Well, people are generally taught to mistrust weird men. I don't have a problem with this in itself, but sometimes it is a bit too general and can go a bit too far with misandristic undertones. This is just a gut feeling that I have when people talk about this, and it's something that's a bit hard to challenge in the right way. I don't think society does much to "shoot down" misand…
/r/MensRights23/07/21 02:24 PM
1

Sure "misandry" started as a a reactionary concept, but it's kind of transcended that. Misandristic sentiments are now firmly rooted in society and taught to young girls and boys. So the origins aren't too important to how it works now. I don't really like the term "internalised misogyny" and "internalised misandry", it kind of robs someone of agency for a seemingly invisible crime, and it's too much of an easy accusation to file. But I would say that you have men aggressively hating the fact th…
/r/MensRights23/07/21 11:04 AM
1

I see where you're coming from but I really think this distinction is arbitrary. The beliefs held by misogynists and misandrists are qualitatively almost identical, rely on very similar faulty logic, and so on. There are far more similarities than differences, I'd say. In particular I'm not sure why you're distinguishing between "learned" and "taught" here. There are active forces that push towards misandry. Prejudice is imo only acceptable for characteristics that are not immutable and I think …
/r/MensRights22/07/21 01:11 PM
1

I'm not so sceptical about it
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/07/21 08:54 AM
16

>i'm a bit hesitant to do the 'if the roles were reversed' thing. only because misandry and misogyny apply to slightly different concepts. That's in the end, just how misandry and misogyny are generally defined. All the label means is someone/something that displays hatred of or prejudice towards men. It does not require a particular severity. That is, a statement doesn't have to be "hateful enough" to qualify as misandristic, it is misandristic automatically by being hateful towards men. I don'…
/r/MensRights21/07/21 07:00 PM
2

I feel the wording here is far too strong and could be better targeted. It seems to be specifically targeting radfems rather than feminism. [which is of course what most people mean by "anti-feminist"]
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/07/21 06:38 PM
1

Probably not. But ultimately she will either find a partner willing to give her all that, or discover that she can't and has to reconsider her expectations.
/r/MensRights21/07/21 06:33 PM
1

This is something the vast majority of people believe, not just misandrists.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/07/21 06:30 PM
17

It displays a degree of hatred of men, by implying they have lesser ability or suitability to lead by virtue of their gender, so it is misandry. People might view misandry as a natural reaction to society, but that doesn't make it not misandry. Misandry is defined the same way as misogyny swapping out "woman" for "man". So any dislike of, hatred for, or prejudice against men is misandry.
/r/MensRights21/07/21 06:26 PM
2

I don't think "because of "Muslim tradition", yet she wants to have full "modern Western woman" rights" is unreasonable. Most (particularly younger) people in the West will have progressive views but some choose to keep the traditions passed down through their family. In this sense one's religion could be more aesthetic than some kind of moral or philosophical conviction. But yes she comes across as pretty self-obsessed by the way you've described it. It's not an entirely gendered issue.
/r/MensRights21/07/21 06:19 PM
1

I guess I expose my terminally-onlineness here when I say that I've seen very few people explicitly identify as feminists irl! Rather that label being inferred by their views.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/07/21 11:09 AM
15

They don't always have the same affinity for tribalism or meaningless rituals either. (autistic people being more likely to be GNC etc.) Whereas wokeism is the absolute epitome of it. The focus on word-games (making up new words, introducing distinctions where none exist, meaningless word salad) and psychological manipulation feels pretty ableist to me. They aim to confuse and overwhelm, but I guess it traps the people that they want.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/07/21 10:36 AM
6

I find that these people are somewhat less likely to make the label "feminist" a primary part of their political identity. Those who make a big deal out of being a feminist tend to be on the more radfemmy end, from my experience. So you can see where this perception comes from.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/07/21 07:21 PM
6

"but it has health benefits!"
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/07/21 07:17 PM
2

I would nope this. Speak honestly and you'll push away people that you wouldn't have wanted to befriend anyway.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/07/21 07:10 PM
3

Creating a race-segregated space would be a disaster. I don't think that's workable at all and I don't think race is the issue at hand. You would find yourself quickly rejected as some neo-Nazi message board. What I do find is that I struggle to find people who I align well with politically. Find an anti-woke person then they turn out to be a misandrist or gender-critical or start saying weird things about race. Have never been able to win them all. Remember this is all a performance to a lot of…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/07/21 07:07 PM
14

It's because they define patriarchy in such an all encompassing way. The current societal situation is defined as "patriarchy", so the current attitudes towards men are "patriarchal". Unfortunately many people don't see how antagonising this is.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/06/21 10:17 AM
2

Just looked at the Megalia and Womad stuff on wikipedia. Absolutely evil people. (literally defending a pedophile?)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/06/21 07:38 AM
8

>small price to pay Literally their life, I can't think of a bigger price to pay.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/06/21 06:48 PM
2

>I knew a guy who was given acid because the other people there thought it would be funny for him to lose his mind in the middle of a party... This is one of the most terrifying things that could happen to a person, lol. You could easily give someone serious psychological damage with that. (worst case, they do something life-altering while fucked up or bring out dormant schizophrenia) There really are some lowlifes in the world.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/06/21 06:46 PM
5

Is there any alternative to "woke" to describe the horribly collectivist/identity obsessed ideology shared by some on the left? I've always felt it's reasonably well understood.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/04/21 09:44 AM
2

I'll have a look
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/04/21 10:42 PM
1

I'll take this on board
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/04/21 03:46 PM
-8

Never seen "incel" used benevolently, but fair enough if it is.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/04/21 03:32 PM
-8

What term are we supposed to use for that specific subculture? I haven't used it as an insult per se.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/04/21 03:17 PM
1

Incels are a specific group of people "unsuccessful on the sexual market". I think we all know the kind we're talking about.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/04/21 02:47 PM
1

That's the thing - one of the moderators was posting criticism of feminism and stuff about men's rights issues, while a considerable portion of the sub didn't seem to care. Always seemed like the sub had an identity crisis and wasn't sure what it actually wanted to be. Yeah pretty much. Some only believe that feminism fights for gender equality because they believe that all women's issues are tied to men's. Others are truly egalitarian, others only really care about raising women up. (and indeed…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/04/21 12:42 PM
122

> It's fair for a Feminist sub to not want posts about men's issues Depends. If you claim that feminism tries to equally deal with men's and women's issues, you cannot take issue with the highlighting of men's issues. Maybe you could say that there's undue weight, but either you cover men's issues or you don't. In spirit, feminists who almost exclusively care about female issues are no better than MRAs who almost exclusively care about male issues. Egalitarians should seek to level disparities i…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/04/21 12:23 PM
3

A related, even less sensical, phenomenon is crediting minority-on-minority racism (eg. black-on-asian) to white supremacy.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates08/04/21 11:12 AM
2

I would feel so uncomfortable and weird doing this, ngl. Honestly, crossing the road does just fine. You're going to scare someone more by randomly calling out to them. Imagine what goes through their mind in that split second.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/04/21 08:24 PM
1

Nah it was my mistake, I read "is because" not "isn't because", oops!
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/04/21 11:46 AM
1

> because I think rape of men by other men isn’t horrific What the fuck?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/04/21 11:35 AM
5

> I am not sure why mras seem to get stuck on this, spending so much time trying to prove that women are as violent as men Because society is trying to exonerate women. The message is "men caused this, men should fix this". All the messaging is how men need to look out for problematic behaviours in their friends and community. Nothing about women doing so. If they are doing so, why aren't the numbers much lower for women? Clearly if a rape culture exists, it is gender neutral. > No one is stoppi…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/04/21 11:32 AM
5

> I know that a lot of people here already know that but it's good to repost for newcomers. That's the problem: we know, these numbers have been going around on egalitarian and MRA subs for years. But many people deny these numbers (well, they just ignore them lol) and are tunnel visioned on the word "rape", ignoring how the legal definition (which does not align with the dictionary/common one) excludes most ways in which men are sexually victimised by women. The definition has been engineered f…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/04/21 11:00 AM
11

This misses the point. We have reason to be resentful because the narrative is that rape & IPV in general is a man's issue that is men's to resolve. But the stats suggest that women are equally liable for this "rape culture". As long as people are still screaming "by other men!" from the rooftops as if that's a valid retort and erasing millions of victims, people have the right to be outraged. Also, it's not only women who believe this, plenty of men do too. (hence complicity with the current la…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/04/21 10:59 AM
7

First post is an ethnonationalist cartoon, not exactly a good look.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/04/21 11:12 PM
4

Not to mention it enables ignorance to men's issues and means that we'll have even more male disadvantages disconnected from female ones.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/04/21 08:45 PM
11

I mainly have an issue with the usage of "patriarchy" when it is used to imply that men's issues are entirely interlocked with women's with all men's issues blamed on "the patriarchy". (going further than just "men are hurt by the patriarchy") This at least partly blames men for their own issues, (implying that men's issues come effectively from the male community harming itself) which shouldn't really be acceptable. I don't disagree that patriarchal views are present throughout society, but the…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/04/21 08:21 PM
7

I guess you're right, but I'd be pretty hurt for someone to say something so antithetical to how I'd have raised them.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/04/21 05:54 PM
47

If a child of mine, male or female or otherwise, says KAM/I hate men, I'll think I've failed as a parent.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/04/21 10:36 AM
17

It's because they believe every male disadvantage spawns out of female disadvantage in one way or another, and that resolving women's issues will in turn resolve all of men's. That is of course, utter trite and the more people parrot this bollocks, the worse the situation will become.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/04/21 05:43 PM
3

Of course, I don't disagree! Thought it was worth pointing out that not all people go to "sex workers" for sex. I wouldn't like it because the connection isn't real and may give unhealthy ideas about what human connection is about, but it helps some people get through things. I like the message of this thread, there's this popular notion that all men want is sex but people are more complicated than that. For me sex is a small part of what I want in a relationship, I want someone who I can trust …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/04/21 10:58 PM
10

Well GFE seems fairly popular, and some sex workers will gladly just be intimate and have a conversation. Would agree there is no substitute for "real" relationships. (and GFE just seems damaging to me)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/04/21 01:09 PM
1

Yeah that's kind of what I mean by lashing out. They don't actually have a specific point, they just want to unleash anger out at men as a collective and communicate that "men bad and problematic, they have to deal with that". They just want to exonerate women, distance themselves from the issue, and continue to sit on their high horse. I've seen very few unconvinced people "get" substituting men with "black people". The point is that they are literally following the precise bigoted lines of tho…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/03/21 10:18 AM
5

Oh I know, personally I'm severely underweight, low muscle tone, with DCD, (I guess I could come under "disabled" but I'd never identify myself as such) and I'd be absolutely no match for a criminal who felt confident enough to take on random people in the middle of the night. I was just giving an extreme example to drive the point home. (since insisting men can stand up for themselves is kind of ableist) Not to mention that even if you could theoretically fight them off if it was bare fists vs …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/03/21 07:04 PM
13

I agree - this applies equally to a lot of women's issues too though. Doesn't mean the outrage is invalid, though.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/03/21 05:51 PM
25

I'd probably get killed for saying this outside this sub - but your experience is shared by many women too. I've had female friends go as far to say that they don't think sexism against women is a thing in the Western world. (I certainly wouldn't go that far myself, but the sentiment is there among many) My experience has also been very positive, I've never felt discriminated due to my sex or anything else. Nor have I felt specifically advantaged. We must remember that we're fairly privileged to…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/03/21 04:55 PM
100

I've usually seen the argument go like this: > Women have much more to worry about, they can't leave the house without fear of getting attacked > Actually, men are more likely to be attacked, and the statistics show that. > Yeah, but by men (how they think this relates to the first message I haven't a clue, since that's not what's being contested, it just makes it sound like they're blindly lashing out) > Continues to parrot the first line in full knowledge it's faulty. which makes this even mor…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/03/21 09:28 AM
13

Yup, always an angry white man except all the times it's not. This infographic is very enlightening: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EFaVbpAXUAA1zBk.jpg The common thing ignored is that it makes perfect statistical sense that a lot of mass shooters are white men. Most shooters are men, and ~75% of people in the US are white, about ~85% in the UK. So we would expect about that many white male shooters if all the distributions are uniform. They are essentially expecting minorities to commit disproport…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/03/21 10:24 PM
13

Exactly. In the end - stats shouldn't be there to tell us what we want to hear, they should be telling us what we/society don't want to hear.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/03/21 11:40 AM
17

What shocks me is why they'd want "solidarity" with people with vile views like that. I'm sure if we stood in solidarity with MGTOW misogynists (if indeed they don't conflate us with them in the first place), they'd have some choice words for us.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/03/21 11:34 AM
18

Some people only consider underreporting when the statistics don't say what they want them to. If the stats look to support their points, they don't care about their integrity.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/03/21 11:21 AM
3

> It’s not - it’s just that women don’t know who’s good or who’s bad so it pays to be careful. Most men are good, we know that. This is a potentially problematic thing to say/think though. Statistics can easily be weaponised and used to justify this sort of attitude against certain minorities. People really need to tread carefully, because when you really dig into the logic behind this it starts to get quite dark... Not saying it's not fine to take precautions, I'm saying that there's a quite th…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/03/21 07:25 PM
23

Absolutely spot on.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/03/21 05:45 PM
20

What we are pointing out is that the arguments adopted by racists/white supremacists/etc. are the exact same at play here. It shows to me that people don't really think profiling is wrong, they take an issue with who is being profiled. I think that's toxic, though ik people view it as "completely different". Haven't quite wrapped my head around that yet. It's not like they're saying profiling of men based on their gender is less important than black people being profiled based on their race. It'…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/03/21 05:09 PM
18

I'm not proud to be a man, just like I'm not proud to be cis, not proud to be white. I am not ashamed to be any of those things. I didn't choose my gender or race. They don't say anything about me, just that I happened to be born a certain way by chance. I'm proud of things that I've worked on, and more "local" characteristics I have. I think that being specifically proud of such superficial characteristics is a bit silly. I reject a lot of the claimed inherent differences between men and women …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/03/21 02:19 PM
6

they're talking about misandrists hijacking IMD to spread hatred. (eg. saying "Every day is International Men's Day!")
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/03/21 02:07 PM
4

People who don't like the phrase "kill all men" are less educated on the issue that I am, because I'm the world's definitive feminist and speak nothing but the truth. Polite disagreement and different interpretations of the facts are just not possible. Men who disagree with the phrase are necessarily misogynist and their criticisms are all like "lol go back to the kitchen" or similar. I believe that because a good portion of the male population are abusive, that I can make dehumanising statement…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/03/21 12:36 AM
11

I don't think it's theoretically impossible for feminism to exist without misandry. In fact, it would be absolutely trivial - being bigoted towards men is an active choice, instead of saying hateful shit against men, simply don't do that lol. The current narrative though is so far gone it's possible that this'll never happen though. There's apparently just too much hate in the world. Would agree I'm not sure if it's even worth trying to "reform" feminism. Egalitarianism is a better umbrella goin…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/03/21 12:30 AM
18

Idk, I am still hoping the current ideology will collapse in on itself (as it should, considering it's crawling with irreparable inconsistencies) and we'll see the movement recover. Doubtful though.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/03/21 11:27 PM
58

Agree. This is a relevant video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxpX6IQ3GY4 Adding to your last point a thing I'd like to see that really peeves me is more feminists openly disavowing and distancing themselves more from so called "bad feminists". (of the "kill all men", "I hate men", "the world is better without men" variety and so on) I've only seen this done to TERFs and biphobic people. (which is a start) A lot blame negative perception of feminism on these bad feminists, but when push comes…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/03/21 10:38 PM
2

I have to admit I do/did have a few negative stereotypes against men. They've reduced a lot, but for a while if you said "rapist", I'd think of a man, similarly if you said "child predator". It's tough to extinguish, but it'll come with time.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/03/21 01:39 PM
21

Male survivors of domestic violence and rape having fewer resources is a good example. Or neglect in men's mental health and suicide rates.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/03/21 03:28 PM
24

The same way as misogyny or racism might hurt a person? I don't understand the question.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/03/21 03:19 PM
5

yeah either "no means no" or "no means no unless either party makes it explicitly clear it doesn't". (preferably "no" would be reassigned to some other word, ie. safe words etc.) The example in the video I would definitely consider explicit lol. I think expecting people to infer is unhelpful, even just speaking pragmatically. I always feel I'm walking on thin ice when I infer whether to continue pursuing, not a fan at all especially since I'm not the absolute best at picking up on social cues.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/03/21 12:21 PM
1

I don't see how what you wrote contradicts what I said, don't disagree with any of that. Maybe I've worded some part poorly.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/03/21 12:41 AM
1

I will try to get through this post later, but I'll say I'm mainly talking about Muslims in the west, who more or less have no choice but to bend their religious beliefs to fit Western norms. Quite aware of the dangers to dissidents in Muslim countries (and even in the UK/US) and I wouldn't want to be seen to be downplaying the dangers people face because of that.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/03/21 08:30 PM
2

Well put. I just hate it when these are made out to be groundbreaking takes. (and, as I said, has some uncomfortable implications)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/03/21 07:29 PM
11

Thank you! If that does not equal extremely rare, I don't really know what does.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/03/21 07:27 PM
16

> A woman is killed by a man every three days in the UK So like 100 odd women per year, out of a population of like 30 million women and hundreds of thousands of deaths, does that not qualify as "extremely rare"? Not to mention most of those will have been killed by someone they are close to, as opposed to a random person, so random murder would be much rarer yet.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/03/21 04:53 PM
1

I don't think it's fair to compare Islam and Nazism. Doesn't sit right with me at all. The main bit I'd take issue with is the last paragraph. I don't suggest any ideas should be protected from criticism, quite the opposite. Questioning why someone associates with a religion is one thing, but presupposing Muslims as violent and a danger to society crosses the line. It marries quite nicely with anti-Asian/Middle-Eastern/etc. racism. I think that's unfair on the majority peaceful Muslim populace. …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/03/21 04:46 PM
3

Appreciate your perspective! :)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/03/21 02:13 PM
1

That's not my understanding, doesn't male/female describe both a gender and a sex? One is a voluntary label the other meaning AMAB/AFAB. What I do know is that FtMs fundamentally want to be recognised as male and no different to AMAB, and they are not going to be thrilled by discretely identifying them as female, to say the very least.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/03/21 02:07 PM
7

Fundamentalist Islam and Christianity do indeed encourage these things. (might be controversial to say that) I do not claim the holy texts are innocent and parts of some do indeed preach intolerance. However, there's a definite difference between what the religious scripture says, and what the followers generally believe. Many Christians reject the homophobic verses of the bible, many Muslims reject the extremely conservative/violent parts that are incompatible with the West. Associating with a …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/03/21 01:55 PM
2

Not quite my point. The intent of the protests is benevolent, the intent of shootings is not, so I don't think you can lump them together like that.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/03/21 01:31 PM
8

I think that's a slight over-romantisation, considering the intents of shootings (where they are known) are often sinister and misanthropic. Though I disagree with violent protest [mostly a pacifist], you can say their heart is in the right place.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/03/21 03:39 AM
11

Your point being what exactly? That it's fine to denigrate men after the actions of an absolutely infinitesimal proportion of the population? We're talking about a vanishingly small number. Should we feel free to denigrate Muslims after terror attacks? Denigrate those from countries that have ongoing ethnic cleansing campaigns?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/03/21 01:23 AM
8

Mass shooters make a microscopic percent of the male population, this isn't really an argument.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/03/21 01:17 AM
21

The two are compared though. Think of what you'd say to someone who was drink driving: "imagine what you could've caused, if x y z had happened". Tragedies are used to dissuade drink driving. I would argue in this analogy, the current situation could be compared to not punishing drink drivers unless they cause an accident. After all - what harm did they do? No-one got hurt. FWIW Kantian does seem to describe my ethical compass fairly accurately, never heard the term before.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/03/21 11:35 PM
4

Think this misses the point. I don't think the issue is with the term AFAB itself. My understanding is that he is taking issue with the term is used to try to tie trans men, women and presumably NB AFAB together. If they got the choice, they wouldn't have been born in that body, so would most likely prefer not to be associated with women in that way. It ties into the idea of still considering FtMs as a woman in part. Seems flattering to them, but it's fairly clear how it causes gender dysphoria …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/03/21 11:30 PM
41

Would respectfully disagree with this line of argument. Allowing prejudice against a majority group sets a dangerous precedent. As I said above, it concedes that racial/sexual/gender-al prejudice makes sense, and that it's an issue of which way the scales are leaning rather than the morals behind it. Begs the question - if they were the ones that historically more advantaged, would they care? You essentially find that you are incubating toxic ideas, which could escalate to institutional prejudic…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/03/21 11:16 PM
47

My view on this is quite simple: you are flirting with or even accepting the idea that prejudice based on race or sex is a thing that makes sense in certain circumstances. And you can basically gather from that, that you just take an issue with what way the scales tip. So you're not really much better than racists or misogynists speaking from a moral perspective... How hard is it to condemn all irrational prejudices, instead of picking and choosing which ones you want to slyly permit? And no, pr…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/03/21 10:59 PM
11

When I read the title I thought it was going to be a nice post gender stereotypes, throwing out gender roles/lad culture thing, was a bit disappointed. Some good points, (in that "don't abuse/rape/kill women" is to any reasonable person) but the underlying tone makes me wince. "Rape culture", seemingly a narrative that women are "intelligent, beautiful, strong" while boys are like uncontrollable rabid dogs that have to be tamed. Also gives some misandry erasure vibes. You can't really actively d…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/03/21 08:43 PM
5

Haven't looked at the post yet. Glad to hear that though. I think divisions/closed forums in society are generally speaking a bad thing. If everyone was considerate and un-tone-deaf (?) we wouldn't even have to consider it so wouldn't agree that the sub should be mainly reserved for men.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/03/21 04:45 PM
10

> Women and feminists should distance themselves from male spaces so men can talk more openly without comparisons to women being drawn. I wouldn't go as far to say this. I think women (or anyone who doesn't identify as a man or woman) should be as welcome to this sub as men, provided they are supportive and don't try to silence men's voices or invalidate their experiences. They should be welcome to ask questions and try to learn. I'd be fairly happy if they tried to start healthy debate too, tho…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/03/21 04:28 PM
37

These are the same people that complain of "derailing the conversation" if you try to bring up men's issues. They see no issue with hijacking, they just want to be the one that benefits. And honestly, it pisses me off when you don't see the moral wrongs behind something and only take issue with it because it effects you.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/03/21 04:27 PM
13

Love your work, I particularly liked your one on "punching up". I hate how a lot of these instagrams are one-track minded and necessitate dedicated accounts for men's rights. (despite repeated insistence that they are indeed covered [lol])
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/03/21 03:02 PM
4

We should absolutely not do this. We should not even entertain the idea of excluding men from "sexism". (or white people from racism, close parallel) We should continue to use "sexism" and point out that the definition they employ is not standard. Sexism should be defined as "discrimination/prejudice based on sex/gender identity", no more, no less. [bigoted terms like "reverse sexism" imply that misandry does not exist, is "completely different" to misgyny, or otherwise downplays misandry]
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/03/21 04:31 AM
15

Whenever they say something like this - ask "define man", and you see all of the trans-exclusionism and NB-exclusionism spill out.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates19/03/21 06:42 PM
1

I will copy and paste my response from the deleted thread if that's ok. I admit, I don't really identify as a leftist. However a lot of the posts on this subreddit are attractive to me. Generally I'm centre to centre-right fiscally (I am not anti-capitalist) and farish left socially. Dunno what else I'm supposed to wank to. My preferences can be niche and edge into "hardcore" territory. I don't think there's an issue with that as long as all involved are consensual and have not been trafficked o…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/21 11:27 PM
1

I admit, I don't really identify as a leftist. However a lot of the posts on this subreddit are attractive to me. Generally I'm centre to centre-right fiscally and farish left socially. Dunno what else I'm supposed to wank to. My preferences can be niche and edge into "hardcore" territory. I don't think there's an issue with that as long as all involved are consensual. A lot of opposition to porn comes down to people being prudes, to not put too fine a point on it. (and yes, I have seen radfems …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates18/03/21 10:23 PM
22

You're not an egalitarian unless you've been variously labelled racist, sexist, conservative, ignorant, etc. :P
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 06:39 PM
1

Disgusting, I hope that instagrammer is ashamed of themselves for trying to invalidate an abuse victim. Imagine the scenes if someone dug through a female victim's reddit history looking to ridicule their political beliefs and questioning why she didn't do x and y. The answer would be accusations of "victim blaming", why don't they think the label applies here?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 03:12 PM
2

I did not know that, the law must be different in my country!
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 01:39 PM
8

I must admit that there are posts on here that make me double take. But plenty more have perfectly valid points. You have the ability to disagree with someone without having to discredit them. Anti egalitarian would mean that people here are opposed to gender equality, what gives you that idea?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates17/03/21 12:01 AM
5

Honestly I don't think this post in itself is a "big deal". If men are discriminated against in getting into these programs without them being transparent about the program's goals, (I don't really have anything against "women in science" programs but imo they should be upfront) that's definitely fucked up. Will have to read more into this.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/03/21 10:11 PM
1

Merely having logically consistent theory puts you head and shoulders above a lot of these "progressives"/radfems.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/03/21 12:12 AM
4

I don't think it's "most", I think it's definitely a fairly large group, at least a vocal minority. I agree with your general point. I would however say that a huge proportion of people will have interacted/associated with someone like this. We live in a world where "we shouldn't treat people differently based on their race" can be contentious, because it doesn't caveat "unless they're white". Then it's perfectly ok to joke about and stereotype white people, because they treat it as some sort of…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/03/21 02:35 PM
14

You can acknowledge someone's point while condemning how far they take it or they put it across. I would generally keep quiet unless people took it to extremes, personally. KAM was one such instance where I just couldn't keep quiet, if you don't mean something then don't say it lol. Why that even needs to be said, I don't know. I know you haven't given any examples, but usually I've seen "you are more concerned with women’s tone more than the horrors they face day to day" crop up when people cha…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/03/21 12:12 AM
1

It gets on my tits when people say shit like "well, it's less common with the situation reversed". How that is even considered a valid argument astounds me. We're supposed to stand up for groups that can be ""easily"" (not really, but some people manage) forgotten/overlooked, like what the fuck?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates14/03/21 11:55 PM
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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