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View 16 posts and 1,255 comments by roe_ on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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Upvotes Title Category Author Subreddit Date (UTC)
22

Red Pill Theoryroe_/r/TheRedPill06/03/14 06:56 PM
18

Red Pill Theoryroe_/r/TheRedPill29/08/13 07:25 PM
15

roe_/r/PurplePillDebate13/02/14 08:57 PM
14

roe_/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/14 05:47 PM
11

roe_/r/PurplePillDebate25/03/14 09:38 PM
10

roe_/r/PurplePillDebate09/09/14 01:59 PM
6

Discussionroe_/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/15 03:17 AM
6

roe_/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/14 12:15 AM
6

Red Pill Theoryroe_/r/TheRedPill04/04/13 08:31 PM
5

roe_/r/MarriedRedPill18/02/15 02:57 AM
5

roe_/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/14 06:55 PM
4

roe_/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/14 04:26 PM
4

roe_/r/TheRedPill22/03/13 08:14 PM
3

Scienceroe_/r/PurplePillDebate12/12/14 07:51 PM
1

Red Pill Theoryroe_/r/TheRedPill10/09/13 08:42 PM
0

Red Pill Theoryroe_/r/TheRedPill22/05/13 01:43 PM
Showing the 1,000 most recent of 1,255 comments.
Upvotes Comment on Subreddit Date (UTC)
12

I'm close to this issue, it's highly nuanced, and both sides IMO get stuff wrong. ​ First off - my teenaged child declared themselves "non-binary" - and more on this to follow - but the teachers allowed them to change their name *without* our knowledge or consent. We just started seeing the new name on e-mails, school documents, permission forms, etc. ​ This is a huge problem. Schools are letting students make potentially life-altering decisions *without* involving parents, and this is a non-sta…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/09/23 05:30 PM
2

I don't understand how the first study supports the author's thesis that women are as sexually violent as men. From the abstract of the linked study: > Nearly 1 in 10 youths (9%) reported some type of sexual violence perpetration in their lifetime; 4% (10 females and 39 males) reported attempted or completed rape. What am I missing? (There's a section where, at age 18, the numbers of *first sexual offence* are equal, but that seems to be an artifact of the 18-year-old cut-off)
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/02/21 02:30 PM
2

Hollywood is meant to be about wish fulfillment This is arguable. Have you never seen a Hollywood film that you've learnt something from? I mean, stories generally, are meant to teach or portray something true (not in the sense of factually true, but... let's say "genuine"). Otherwise, why would we be fascinated by them?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/03/17 03:47 PM
9

The point is: if people weren't driven by adaptations in the first place, we could just socialize people to like broccoli more then cake. We don't have unlimited degrees of freedom in designing society - understanding the adaptations we're executing is a guide to designing social interventions to encourage good ones and impede bad ones. The more deluded we are about this, the worse a society we'll end up with.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/16 04:44 AM
1

I've told her a few times that I think she's not being passionate enough and I'm not that attracted to her because of it. I've told her to moan, to put more feeling into it, to look me in the eye when giving blowjobs So, she's not having (to you) an authentic reaction to sex, and you're going to order her to have a more authentic reaction, and that's going to work... How? Seriously, what if she did all that stuff you said you wanted, but it didn't come from her, it was because you told her to do…
/r/MarriedRedPill17/08/15 02:36 AM
1

I agree with most of that, but it doesn't especially speak to your point about Patriarchy theory.
/r/MensRights05/08/15 09:05 PM
0

Neither have I, but my sense of it is that there's not an over-abundance of non-feminists who believe in Patriarchy theory.
/r/MensRights05/08/15 07:47 PM
-1

So the thesis is confirmed if there are lots of feminists, and it's confirmed if there aren't many feminists. I find this... suspicious.
/r/MensRights05/08/15 05:22 PM
1

But... the number of people who identify as feminists is now under 20% and has been dropping for years. So why is the rise of narcissism negatively correlated with the number of women who identify as feminists?
/r/MensRights05/08/15 01:47 PM
5

Can you give specific examples of how? I mean, you seem to be a student. I've been in the workforce for a long time. I've worked for women clients who were effectively my boss. I work for a company that has always had at least one female vice president, and currently has a female CEO. To me, this is a weird perception.
/r/MensRights26/07/15 12:26 AM
5

(A lot of this is spit-balling - I may be wrong) Switch from terminal to instrumental ends. We all know what the problems are and even have solutions, but the MRM will never get anything accomplished until it has cultural and institutional legitimacy. The problem with the MRM culturally is that it is seen as low-status (or, put less politely, only associated with "loser" men) - one solution is to court celebrity proponents. This might be far-fetched - the is an inherent in-congruency in a male c…
/r/MensRights30/03/15 11:11 PM
1

Right - but if you look at the way modern Identity politics work - almost everyone ignores class in favour of race, gender and/or sexual orientation. Which makes sense - most of the participants in identity politics learned critical * theory (where * = race/gender/sexuality) in college - ie. they all belong to the UMC.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/02/15 05:09 AM
2

Not marketing - thought it was relevant. About 1/4 of the way through the book - advice seems a little more focused on practical implementation then MMSLP. Happy to comment further when done.
/r/MarriedRedPill18/02/15 05:26 PM
17

It's getting old now, but I'll point out that in the intervening years most states have become more friendly to fathers, by adopting the 'in the best interests of the child' standard for decisions, and many going further and adopting a presumption that 'the best interests of the child is equally shared custody'. Are they, though? North Dakota had a vote on "equal shared custody" in the last midterm and it was defeated - it was opposed by a lawyers group and battered-women activist groups.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/15 10:41 PM
2

Here's what I think should be understood about nice guys: For whatever reason - heritability, childhood trauma, lack of proper socialization, autism - nice guys have exactly one tool with which to interact with the world. And that is being basically non-objectionable to everyone. And... we live in a world where a person can get by on just that for a long time... Until you can't... And then it's super-frustrating, because the one tool you have doesn't work. I'm not sure it's as much about groomin…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/15 06:46 PM
1

This is kind of a troll in my part, but maybe a fun and instructive one! I would do what porn star/engineer Mercedes Carera describes here - that is, use affirmative action policies to get into a tech program I didn't have credentials for (no disrespect to Ms. Carrera - who seems to be very bright and probably deserved the program on intellectual merit), use my attractiveness and gender to get fast-track promoted, the move into a lucrative porn career because I can earn more for less work doing …
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/15 06:26 PM
1

Using "No More Mr. Nice Guy" as a metric - I was displaying some, but not all traits. I was running several covert contracts. Had problems saying no or drawing personal boundaries. Used niceness "tactically."
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/15 05:04 AM
1

An inference on my part: previous approaches in general. Am I wrong?
/r/MarriedRedPill29/01/15 10:21 PM
1

She said "yeah right, I know what you're up to.," and then she re-stated that she knows it's been a long time. What this tells me is that your previous approaches were indirect and beta, and so she's never sure how to sort your actions into "aiming for sex" and "being supportive." So, your job (IMO) is to keep approaches overt, keep beta support genuine and without expectation, and keep at it until she updates, which takes some time. I would also say figure out which forms of touch show "beta su…
/r/MarriedRedPill29/01/15 06:42 PM
1

I suggest meditation, yoga and/or martial arts as tools to help deal with the physical side of anxiety. CBT (there are books & workbooks available) is a good tool to challenge unwelcome thoughts or beliefs. This is an inner game thing - you are lost in an unproductive thought loop (I've been there) - and they're nasty and can become self-fulfilling prophecies ie. the anxiety prevents you from connecting emotionally, which feeds into sex sessions, which... CBT is about (IMO) realigning your emoti…
/r/MarriedRedPill29/01/15 06:28 PM
2

Or, another way of putting it, the OP has an idealized fantasy of an RP woman that he's trying to shape her into. This is not a healthy way to view another human being. She has to want the role of FO.
/r/MarriedRedPill28/01/15 03:25 PM
1

Does she want to be that person?
/r/MarriedRedPill28/01/15 05:21 AM
2

The lack of sex drive on your part is concerning - could be the meds. Could be low-T. Her lack of attraction & conflict is connected to you kinda giving up on life. You're in a bad situation definitely, but you've got to make the best of it. If she see you fighting for a good life and for your family, her faith & respect in you will be re-established, and her attitude will change (I humbly predict).
/r/MarriedRedPill28/01/15 05:14 AM
6

I have a suggestion. Shit-test him. Do something (mildly) rude or challenging to him. He has to react in a dominant manner. Then yield. If you just "give him" leadership, it kind of just happens by default. There's an aspect in which leadership has to be "taken", IMO. This may make it more "real." Something to try, if you're comfortable with it: If you need to have a difficult conversation, or apologize for something, or whatever, have him sit in a chair, get on your knees with your hands in his…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/15 05:32 AM
3

Something you wrote below kind of concerns me: She also hates it if I write a journal with things I don't say to her. Even though marriage is very intimate, husbands & wifes do have a right to private thoughts. I'm not sure what this means, but it might be a red flag as a control issue maybe. What I would say generally, is wives seem to like small doses of your vulnerability. How I would put it is this: she needs to believe that you can show strength to the world, to protect home & hearth. And h…
/r/MarriedRedPill24/01/15 08:39 PM
5

One answer is "as little as possible." But... I do withhold things I consider "information hazards" - if we have a meeting at work and my boss says there's a small chance there will be people let go from our department, I keep that to myself because the probability it's me is exceptionally small and there's no point in causing undue stress. I know this is reasonably moral because I've done this before, told her I withheld the info after it ceased to matter & why, and she thanked me for doing so.
/r/MarriedRedPill24/01/15 08:04 PM
4

I think certain feminists/progressives have an idealized, somewhat Platonic notion of sexuality - and I think rape violates the purity of this ideal. To develop this a little, if you look at progressive discussions of sexuality, consent, &etc., there is an idealized notion that sexuality should only ever be associated with positive emotions, that sexuality is associated with freedom & spirituality. And all these things are true! But it's also a very one-sided notion, only really considering the …
/r/PurplePillDebate24/01/15 06:33 PM
1

It would be interesting to see if there was a correlation between gender, marital status & religiosity and how the q. was answered - I would imagine you could do this analysis without violating privacy. I don't think you have to define with-holding sex as emotional abuse to say sexuality & sexual fidelity is part of the marriage/relationship contract, and withholding sex (with the usual caveats about appropriate reasons & context) is essentially a violation of the contract.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/01/15 06:04 PM
6

To be fair, a comment there got linked to from the BP subreddit and mocked (of course). Look, I don't think /r/marriedredpill is looking for 100% agreement, but some civility and empathy, like not ruthlessly mocking men who are hurting and looking to improve their lot, wouldn't go amiss. I'm sorry (in a I'm-not-responsible-nor-do-I-speak-for-marriedredpill kinda way) if they made a type 1 error in banning you.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/01/15 04:44 PM
3

Excellent! One of the best things I did for anger/rage & self-control is took a martial art which actually involves taking and giving strong punches to the body & not full-strength to the face. This type of practice teaches you to deal with high-levels of anxiety, and I think recalibrates your anxiety. None of the bullshit interpersonal politics or frustrations at work or home can approach what you feel after taking a hard shot to the solar-plexus. Plus, I think, men are designed for a certain a…
/r/MarriedRedPill24/01/15 03:46 PM
3

However you respond - be aware of your body language. Stand straight, look her in the eye. Do not break eye contact Especially by looking down (submission). I once responded to a snarky/rude request by saying nothing and maintaining eye contact with a slight frown. She looked down and added "please" (She's rarely like that - bad day maybe. But still, I'm not rude when having a bad day and there's an agreed-upon standard of behaviour in the household)
/r/MarriedRedPill24/01/15 03:38 PM
3

... If this is trolling, I don't think this person understands what trolling is.
/r/MarriedRedPill23/01/15 02:53 PM
2

Thank you - that's a great response and I agree.
/r/MarriedRedPill23/01/15 12:31 PM
1

Caplan follows up on this here
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/15 12:00 PM
1

I'm not sure mating decisions are guided by rationality. I think socio-sexually restricted people seek emotional connection before sex, and my hypothesis is that such tendencies arose in our evolutionary past to ensure paternal investment. I would think the idea that sex is more "costly" to women, in terms of adaptive fitness, would fall under the category "biotruth."
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/15 11:40 AM
1

You know what? I don't know either. I mean, it's Bryan Caplan - I just assumed his analysis would be solid. And, if he made a mistake, his commentariate would point it out. And they way they've organized the data (# of male partners, # of female partners) makes it hard to suss out the data. "Monogamy-minded" to me doesn't mean "one partner for life." For example, a person could be "monogamy-mind" and have 2 or 3 lifetime partners if relationships didn't work out. The "gatekeepers of sex" has alw…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/15 11:35 AM
1

Consider that your sample is pre-selected (heh)
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/15 05:31 AM
8

18 is a very convenient age for women to stop maturing.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/15 05:20 AM
4

I tend toward the hypothesis that most women are socio-sexually restricted, and most men aren't socio-sexually unrestricted enough to adopt a player life-style. "Slut-shaming" prioritizes the hypothesis that women are naturally unrestricted, but "stereotype threat" or social pressure causes them to act restrictedly. This could be true. It may also be true that paternal investment is important on a deep evolutionary/biological level, and most women are biologically socio-sexually restricted. Slut…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/15 05:17 AM
3

To anticipate a possible objection, Heartiste refers in a response to Caplan to a study in the Journal of Sex Research here. Heartiste links to an abstract behind a paywall, of course. Quoth the study: Sex difiSerences inself-reports of the number of sexual partners also showed the predicted trend, although it was not significant. The sex difference was greatest in the exposure threat condition, which encouraged gender role accommodation, and decreased in the anonymous condition. In the bogus pi…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/15 03:50 AM
3

Respectfully, I've seen quite a few horror stories about men in marriage counselling, where the counsellor simply consolidated the wife's control in a very emotionally abusive manner. Such counsellors might be in the minority, but they are out there. So, you tell me: how does one differentiate between fear of loss of control as a sign of an abuser, and fear of tag-team emotional abuse? Second of all, if they're here, reading the sidebar, &etc. they are seeking help.
/r/MarriedRedPill23/01/15 03:30 AM
3

My theory for this - I think it's fully generalizable: We live in a weird time in the history of Western culture. It used to be that status was associated with a) who you were born as, or b) what you accomplished. The a) part is basically awful, and progressives recognized this, and tried to change it so only b) mattered. Except... a strange thing happened. Instead of allocating status to only b), a) got inverted - that is, progressives confer status on whoever has claim to the most oppression. …
/r/PurplePillDebate22/01/15 04:07 PM
11

Alexa stats say doctornerdlove.com is frequented by more females then males. Which is weird for a dating site aimed at men. Here's why, I think: Check out this post. Now, yes, he was inappropriate, unprofessional, etc. etc. But her response? "Haha, oh boys. I'm curious, haha." Umm... How about, "Let's keep this professional" if someone makes a clumsy pass which you're not interested in following up on. Don't worry! Nerdlove has the answer! Even in this era of Third Wave feminism and greater soci…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/01/15 04:32 AM
2

Pretty much every man has to deal with rejection by a woman at some point. I don't want to romanticize the past, but it seems to me men used to have some kind of support or education to deal with this, something that seems to be missing in today's masculine culture. I don't know what happened. I'm reminded of the end of Boyhood, when the father character laid some RP-ish advice on his son - who had been cheated on by his girl friend. He didn't use the word "hypergamy", but, well... Not enough of…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/01/15 04:10 AM
7

Again, I refer you to the suffragettes, who also used negative attention to achieve their goals. And I categorically reject your claim about screaming matches with feminists on the internet. I know you haven't seen some of the videos linked above, but the fact of the matter is, when the MRM host events or talks to discuss male issues, feminists descend on them, block the doors, pull the fire alarms, interrupt the talks with chanting. Even if the MRM were not interested in feminism, feminism is i…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/15 09:57 PM
6

Right - and normally, your position would be reasonable. ...But - the most influential book in the modern MRM is (as I mentioned) The Myth of Male Power. And it was published in 1993. For close to 20 years, the MRM was polite, and self-reflective, and co-operative. And it was completely ignored (edit: except when it was mocked, as the mythopoetic movement was - NB: mostly by feminists). Their current strategy of being belligerent, confrontational and attracting outrage is working much better at …
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/15 09:06 PM
8

http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/who-do-mens-rights-activists-think-they-are https://www.youtube.com/results?q=international+men%27s+conference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VatsKNQNVo http://equalitycanada.com/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvoGHZfJZUY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iARHCxAMAO0 (No discussion of "what the MRM is doing" is complete with the infamous Farrell protests) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Yg-f7fC0Uw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFCZOUuf9cQ (Not once has Buchana…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/15 06:44 PM
9

What are they going to do about it when they have no institutional power whatsoever?
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/15 06:09 PM
1

We have a reasonably traditional arrangement - I bring in the money, she deals with the household (this was arrived at before TRP was even a thing, so it was driven by economic and emotional demands, not an embracing of traditionalism). Chores are roughly along traditional gender lines, but porous - I do repairs and upkeep, she does housework. But I clean bathrooms and she paints walls and exterior when needed. Either one of us will pick up the slack for the other when needed. I'm the higher dri…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/15 06:07 PM
15

From the piece: Critics of the men’s rights movement frequently note that there are many issues of concern for men, such as death at work and in war, that the movement ignores, in favour of repeated attacks on feminism and women. I stopped reading there. The "workplace death gap" and selective service has been front & centre in the MRM at least since Farrell wrote The Myth of Male Power - and probably before. Respectfully to your colleague, if she's not going to familiarize herself with primary …
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/15 05:15 PM
15

Wait, she came in the bar, had a beer with you and your friends, and then got angry in the car? Something about this is not hanging together. So, what's the elephant in the room?
/r/MarriedRedPill19/01/15 06:25 AM
2

Relevant GGW vid TL;DW - Her thesis is that the backlash against females being in school in the countries like Afghanistan is linked to Sharia law, which dictates that a husband must spend his earnings on his family before himself, where the wife's earnings are her own. Le wik's entry on Sharia marriage rights and obligations agrees. Whatever you think of Staughan's argument in this particular case, there is an important perspective to confront: "Patriarchal" cultures are, only by the most simpl…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/15 05:22 PM
1

It seems to me basic probability (absent any other info) dictates it is. The higher the SMV, the more people want to have sex with you (by definition). The more people who want to have sex with you, the more opportunity to cheat. The more opportunities there are to cheat, the more likely an opportunity will present itself during a "moment of weakness." So, cerberus pateris, it's more risky.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/15 04:22 AM
1

Because alpha widows who "settle" are headed for low marital satisfaction, which is associated with a high divorce risk, which means the poor beta guy gets to pay for kids he can see for a weekend every other week. I have no criticism for post-wall women who accept the consequences of their decision, marry the unexciting beta, and stay in the marriage. But, it's getting tougher for these women (feel free to take w/ a grain of salt) - it is probably really hard to connect on any meaningful level …
/r/PurplePillDebate17/01/15 04:04 AM
1

Relevant MMSL article If she's dealing with past sexual trauma, establishing a sense of agency over when sex happens or not will go a long way towards a more comfortable attitude in her. Probably counselling needed. I know this is against "red pill" standard advice, but when DW had the "brain won't shut up/thinking mile-a-minute/can't just enjoy it" a good 20 minutes of comfort-building beta (full-body message, hot bath, whatever) worked wonders.
/r/MarriedRedPill17/01/15 03:28 AM
5

Acc'ding to Christina Hoff Sommers book The War on Boys, school is not a good place for boys to be nowadays. So, I wonder how bad this has gotten? Just a theory, no idea if it's true.
/r/MarriedRedPill17/01/15 02:57 AM
1

I've actually devoted a few cycles to thinking about how culture shaped me, 'cause unlike, say, Scott Aaronson, I can't point to any particular thing or event or whatever. It's not like I've had feminists yelling at me (except over the interwebs, recently) or whatever. You know that scene in Guardians of the Galaxy, when the Very Nice planet of Xanar wants to stop the huge enemy ship, so all the little fighters form a big net? I would describe culture as that net, delimiting me in incredibly pas…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/15 04:09 AM
8

I'm pretty sure that me being paranoid stemmed from going to the strip club. That, for me, is the central insight, but you haven't followed through. You kept the strip club a secret from your wife I'm not going to tell you you should or shouldn't feel guilty for going to a strip club - that's between you and your God/conscience. But decide whether you want to/should feel guilty. If you don't, why the secrecy? So, yes, you projected your guilt onto your wife (your secret becomes her secret). Here…
/r/MarriedRedPill13/01/15 02:58 PM
3

Violence no longer works. Now it's Deep Emotion. You need to get to Rational Talk. http://marriedmansexlife.com/2014/03/violence-deep-emotion-and-rational-talk/
/r/MarriedRedPill11/01/15 04:34 PM
1

Without full information, the situation usually is that she's looking to "swing to the other branch" with this guy. So... how likely is that? Either it's true, and he's interested, or she's delusional. The main advantage of a separation is that it gives her an idea of what it will be like without you. Which will either drive her further toward divorce or cause a 180. Either way, you should be fully committed to the idea of divorce - outside of where it adversely affects the kid, you should basic…
/r/MarriedRedPill11/01/15 04:30 PM
6

I think the conventional wisdom here is that if you're in a troubled, near-divorce or high-conflict marriage, the less you say, the better.
/r/MarriedRedPill04/01/15 09:28 AM
3

Nope - not saying that at all. I'm saying, when the rubber hits the epidemiological road, looking at research, or looking at internet arguments, you have to use judgement, or (if applicable), rationality or direct empiricism. But it certainly isn't valid IMO to say since academics don't participate in internet debates, internet debates are therefore useless.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/15 04:35 PM
1

Ya, cause why should academics involve themselves in the unfortunate business of actually engaging the public. Ew. Similarly, psychology, anthropology, medicine, etc. have an established order for a reason. Well, let's see, in anthropology you have Margret Mead, who has been "debunked" and "re-bunked", depending on who you talk to. And at least a few cases of the same semi-horticultural-but-mostly-foraging peoples' who have been visited independently by researchers who contradict each other, and…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/15 05:12 AM
1

lol By the time TRP started up, I had already been through the cringe-gauntlet at Heartistes. I was cringed-out. By cringe, I mean, made horribly uncomfortable at the prospect that they might have been right. Actually, one thing is still rage-bait for me: some of Heartiste's commentators started explicitly their reproduction strategy of cuckolding beta men. Grrr.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/15 04:57 AM
1

You handled it as well as can be expected, but your wife needs psychiatric help, ASAP. That is batshit crazy behaviour that should not be taking place in front of children. Punching you is abuse. I would head over to the MMSL forums and start a "911" thread. It's beyond the expertise of this sub I think. Become familiar with the domestic abuse policy where you live. If you have "primary aggressor" or "duluth model" laws, you could end up in jail if you report her. This will get worse before it g…
/r/MarriedRedPill02/01/15 11:30 PM
1

Playing "tit-for-tat" in the prisoner's dilemma... Or, having strong, well-enforced personal boundaries... Or, not taking shit.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/01/15 11:04 PM
2

Fair point - what I was trying to get across is that the overall vectors of a relationship can be hidden when one partner runs day-to-day operations. If all decisions had fully rational solutions, there would be no need for social dominance, but life doesn't work that way. Decisions are usually made under uncertainty, with unclear trade-offs. That's why IMO social hierarchies often work so well.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/01/15 09:08 PM
3

managed finances, discipline, education and extracurricular activities for us as children, organised money to be put aside for personal spending and necessities, performed the bulk to repairs and dealt with any additional issues that might have occurred None of these things really qualifies as "leading the family." It may be the case that in the west managing finances and doing repair work is traditionally done by men, but that may be due to arbitrary cultural practices. "Leading the family" is …
/r/PurplePillDebate01/01/15 06:22 PM
5

I'm married to a smart, bookish woman and TRP/MMSL married game has made quite a few meaningful predictions about applied relationship dynamics. Mature, independent-minded, definitely not a club rat or whatever. She shit-tests me more around ovulation (she's not a total bitch about it thankfully, but lots of wise-cracks and jokingly bratty behaviour) Dread game works - I'm not an asshole, so I don't use it purposefully. But jealousy makes her want me more. Captain/First Officer works - it's just…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/01/15 12:57 AM
8

I don't usually do this, but I really strongly disagree with the bulk of advice in this thread. Please, please, rule out medical before exercising dread or trying other behavioural tricks - game works, but it does not overcome a medical issue.
/r/MarriedRedPill31/12/14 09:41 PM
4

I'd say very likely medical. I'm guessing she was on the Mirena IUD which certain people (Athol Kay in particular) are convinced is a sex-drive killer. Get her to a doc blood workup etc. Pay particular attention to t-levels - and do a little independent research. Lots of docs screw this up.
/r/MarriedRedPill31/12/14 08:09 PM
2

Sure - there's even a name for this problem: ecclesiology There seems to be a roughly zero-sum balance between having a small but tightly-focused group and having a large but more diffuse group. It's for the mods of TRP to decide what kind of group they want to have - but there's going to be a tradeoff between influence, a variety of viewpoints (and this is important, since TRP theory is still unsettled and evolving and context-dependant), and focus.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/14 09:00 PM
1

Yes and also, not the whole story. When you are on the mating market, both of you are highly motivated to be at your best, most attractive, most awesome selfs. Once you have that marriage certificate, it's like you can both relax. So, complacency is a bit component in unhappy marriages, and needs to be fought.
/r/MarriedRedPill30/12/14 08:52 PM
1

Because how to optimize sexual strategy, how to optimize self-improvement for it's own sake, and how to express masculinity in modernity are all orthogonal questions, and all fair game in this sub, I would expect.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/14 08:29 PM
5

Why would you care about a) why people peruse TRP or what they get out of it? b) what your interlocutors say about it? Frankly, it smacks of ego-investment when you care that people believe the wrong things about TRP!
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/14 08:02 PM
7

Reconcile it as a micro vs. macro view of the events in a marriage. On a case by case basis, she always has a right to not want sex, desire cannot be negotiated, &etc. Outcome independence is just how to act in the moment when there's a preference conflict - without damaging either the relationship or her perception of you. But looking at the relationship on a month-by-month time frame, there should be an agreeable amount of sex going on, and if there's not, there's some blockage in the relation…
/r/MarriedRedPill26/12/14 12:51 AM
2

Here are (IMO) the only two rules you need: Reasonable requests, in a reasonable tone. Be a nice guy, with a hard edge. (h/t Athol Kay) The problem with the "pick your battles" approach, is "pick your battles" can easily slide into "cave to her every whim until she's living with a preference-less nonperson". I think how you want to implement the "picking battles" advice is - don't be conflict-seeking, but don't be conflict-avoidant. Conflicts happen, just be ready to deal with them, and seek a p…
/r/MarriedRedPill22/12/14 07:42 PM
1

Your point and my point are not exclusive, and both are, I think, true... But the OP was talking specifically about what drives certain high-IQ men to greatness, and made an incorrect assumption (access to women).
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/14 04:02 AM
5

so demotivated (having no female worthy of raising a family) by these carousel riding females that he didn't bother If you look at scientists & mathemeticians - not exactly rock stars. A few celibate or gay (Newton, Turning) - most married (just pick one at random... Einstein I think maybe had an affair, but most of these guys are married w/ children and not philanderers). What attracts the high-IQ to abstract and difficult problems is not the promise of access to women - what attracts them is..…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/14 07:18 AM
2

Depends what "spicing things up" means - but I don't think handcuffs and blindfolds in the bedroom is really a substitute for her overall perception of you as a dominant male, which kind of has to be reinforced on a day-to-day basis. Also, it's not zero-sum with conscious attraction or connection (just to be clear)
/r/PurplePillDebate12/12/14 09:57 PM
2

Except the paper states women's sexual interest peaks during the fertile phase (and so is more likely to seek out behaviourly dominant, physically robust men during this period) - which is the "alpha fux" part. ...and are more likely to seek out emotional and financial resources as baby rabies kick-in (ie. as they approach the limit of their long-term fertility window). (Is baby-rabies a real thing? That's a good question...) So it supports half of the picture. As to this: Things as compatibilit…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/12/14 09:51 PM
3

I think you're slightly exaggerating what goes on that sub. Telling your wife, no, in fact, you cannot yell at me for stacking the dishwasher wrong is not equivalent to a corporate restructure. It's more like "my boss is a pass-aggressive milquetoast who never asks me straight-out for what he wants, but now he's taking a corporate leadership training seminar. Yes, there will be missteps along the way, but maybe things will be better now!"
/r/PurplePillDebate12/12/14 02:51 PM
2

Glad you used that metaphor - I'd much rather work for an employer who knew how to lead, set firm boundaries for their employees, and made sure everyone implicitly knew their place in the pecking order. A beta employer would drive me nuts.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/14 09:42 PM
4

Ya, it always looks like that at first. Here's how it works: Man has no boundaries, is beta, failing shit tests, etc. Man discovers MMSL, /r/marriedredpill, etc. Man starts establishing boundaries, which always causes relationship instability, because it's basically a renegotiation of terms. Either: Marriage settles down with new boundaries established, or, fights continue, escalate, and man is forced to ultimatum new boundaries or divorce. Here's the thing: the negotiation & the disagreement is…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/14 07:50 AM
0

(Let's ignore that fact that Tyson is a convicted rapist [who maintains his innocence]) Mixed strategy.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/11/14 09:35 PM
8

"Gender Equality in Tech" Why is this a men's issue? If women want to be in tech, be in tech. I really respect Lovelace and Hopper, but I notice most of the women who are complaining about the gender ratio in tech are the ones who took Liberal Arts. "Dating and interacting with women." Will probably mostly be about etiquette. Fine. "Warped ideas of success." Used the word "toxic" - and we all know what comes after that "Gender-based violence" By "gender-based", they mean male perpetrator female …
/r/PurplePillDebate21/11/14 09:33 PM
1

Addendum that just occurred to me: It's possible there's an accompanying variance in what women find attractive - there do seem to be a minority of women who are genuinely attracted to nerd-conforming men - I've seen this referred to as "sapiophilia". Also, I've heard of a possible epigenetic effect, where women who grow up in harsh, abusive, or fatherless environments go for more violent men.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/11/14 09:17 PM
2

Research by David Lisak suggests most rapes are committed by the minority of men, usually multiple offenders. (I believe the numbers are like 4-6% of men commit over 80% of the rapes - including those involving drugs or alcohol) So, probability is in your favour. Seriously, you don't have to "teach" boys not to rape - if they have basic human empathy, they won't. Rapists are (I believe) mostly either come from abusive backgrounds, or are born with high psychopathy. I think it's totally awesome t…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/11/14 08:34 PM
6

Here's a hypothesis: Physical dimorphism (especially muscularity) is indicative that either a) women "selected" men for muscularity, or b) men killed each other a lot, so more muscular men survived to reproduce. So posit, for the moment, that inter-group conflict was a fact of life throughout most of human evolutionary history. This implies you'd always want a bunch of muscular/aggressive guys around to fight off enemy tribes - so the women that found muscular/aggressive guys sexually attractive…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/11/14 07:42 PM
2

just-world fallacy
/r/PurplePillDebate18/11/14 05:08 AM
1

Penile intercourse is the deep body massage after the electric O. This seems about right to me. Our "order of operations" is she gets off, PIV, I get off. I suspect "technique" is overrated, although there's something to be said for maintaining the right psychological mind-frame - dominance, fantasies, teasing, &etc. There's apparently a study (wish I could cite it) that her ability to reach orgasm is highly correlated with her level of attraction.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/11/14 09:40 PM
2

Actually, on some more private marriage forums I've seen guys talk about their dads as beta-supplicators. It's just way harder to criticize your family on a hugely public forum I think.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/14 10:36 PM
4

I think there's a kind of bi-model reaction to broken home environments - people with agreeable temperaments kind of internalize everything and become super-self-sacrificing, or low-agreeables externalize and act out.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/14 10:35 PM
1

What? No. No! Look, maintaining an LTR is different the spinning plates, and the advice there is based on a non-adversarial, more conscious and negotiated relationship model. Besides, I resemble that remark :P
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/14 10:33 PM
5

we live in a culture that generally pushes male dominance, so it's unsurprising that that's what most people fall into, but there's nothing inherently gendered about the roles themselves. Except for the faster-mutating y chromosome, differential rates of reproductive success (ie. mostly males have been weeded out of the gene pool), gender-specific dimorphism in both body & brain anatomy, differentials in gamete production and biological investment in conception, differentials in paternity vs mat…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/14 09:38 PM
10

This is sort of close to my hypothesis, which is that TRP attracts men who had an absent or not-really-present father figure. So they never really internalized the fact of male-on-male competition for mates. I think the pre-TRP "blue pill" phase is based on insecure attachment and looking for unconditional love from a mother figure. The whole "women can't love a man the way he expects her to" is hyperbolic, but kind of true relative to their expectations.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/14 09:30 PM
4

Think of marriage as an iterated prisoner's dilemma between two agents. If both agents are co-operators - cool! Good relationship! Both agents get their needs met, and pay the cost of meeting the other partner's needs. The problem is, a lot of men come to the red pill playing a co-operator with a defector. She gets all her needs met, he's miserable. Boo! And there's an entire "blue pill" culture and memetic structure around getting men to play co-operator to her defector all the time. Marriage c…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/14 05:26 PM
1

Try the /r/marriedredpill sub - tons of great ground-level stuff there
/r/PurplePillDebate10/11/14 05:19 PM
1

Awesome!
/r/MarriedRedPill07/11/14 07:22 PM
1

OK - just following up on a hunch!
/r/MarriedRedPill07/11/14 04:51 PM
1

Hmm. Is the usual pattern that she's looking to do something for you, or is that just the example? Or: Are "acts of service" one of her important love languages?
/r/MarriedRedPill07/11/14 03:50 PM
0

You & he may find this helpful as a starting point for discussion.
/r/MarriedRedPill06/11/14 06:09 PM
1

Yes - you need (negotiated w/ her) activities that are just for you.
/r/MarriedRedPill06/11/14 06:08 PM
1

Welcome. For lifting, the most efficient workout I've used is Stronglifts 5x5. Simple, quick, and very functional. The one thing I did that helped me best mentally (with boundaries, anxiety, &etc.) was take a martial arts course. Good luck.
/r/MarriedRedPill06/11/14 05:58 PM
2

Yes! Because humans are a social species, there are a bunch of knock-on effects of the place sexuality has in how we relate to each other in groups. Pair-bonding engages the oxytocin system, which is also recruited in group bonding activities like religious rites - and religious people experience similar health outcomes. I expect several "spandrels" have formed around non-procreative sex. The "alpha" strategy has another possibility you didn't mention which has a strong pay-off: cuckoldry. Here,…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/10/14 10:00 PM
1

I see #gamegate as more of a strong push-back against authoritarian tendencies in certain progressives and liberals. But, yes, all hail nerds!
/r/PurplePillDebate26/10/14 04:29 PM
3

Well, even cultures that practice polygyny, for the most part end up with monogamous marriages. Agreed! Humans seem to be a monogamous pair-bonding species w/ opportunistic extra-pair mating. I think the 'alphas getting all the wimmens' risk is vastly over stated, among many things because your given population of people is not selecting for the same things so not everyone is in precisely the same competition with everyone else. I wouldn't make that argument - I think it's exactly right to say t…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/10/14 04:26 PM
7

Here's how I believe status works at the biological level (with the caveat that this is a conjunctive argument with levels of uncertainty at each assertion): The y chromosome is one of the fastest evolving parts of the human genome (not controversial: see wikipedia). Which explains a lot about male variability across a lot of traits. This is why Ian Ironwood - in his "Red Pill Primer" - says women are the protectors of the stability of the human genome and men are responsible for injecting varia…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/10/14 06:26 PM
6

Right - so just to re-emphasize what's already been said up-thread, she works with the kids all day, which is stressful and exhausting so it's reasonable to expect a break at the end of the day, most days. You kinda have to negotiate this stuff - the arrangement I have with my wife is I pursue my hobbies 2 nights a week, and she generally takes a day to herself on weekends.
/r/MarriedRedPill25/10/14 04:03 AM
1

Sorry, didn't catch it - does your wife work?
/r/MarriedRedPill24/10/14 08:48 PM
1

'k thanks - I think that's disconfirmation.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/14 07:08 PM
1

I'll just bite the bullet and say that the TRP doesn't have a lock on the complete set of attributes that generate attraction or optimal mating strategies, and that there probably exist, in the "space" of all attributes, constellations that are uncapitalized-upon. My own experience, empirically, has been a mixed bag (married, so sample set of 1). I'll ask this, though: do you have symmetrical & attractive facial features?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/14 06:50 PM
1

Right - but first you have to process some negativity which is why I advocate a bounded amount of tolerance. I went through this myself - it kind of felt liberating or recalibrating to be a little bit mean - but I moved past it relatively quickly. I suspect (but can't prove) there's kind of a rotating influx of angry newbies that keep the tone that way. narcissistic behavior/culture hurts people I agree! But there's also an authoritarian element to the progressive movement ("SJWs") which are hea…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/14 03:22 PM
2

Sorry for the delay - but I feel this is a little important so I'm going to come back at you one more time on it. So - we have your true rejection - "makes fun of, mocks, dehumanizes people" "assholes" - which I totally understand and respect where it's coming from. And I have no interest in defending the more vicious side of it - but also have no interest in totally "othering" RPers, which is what I kinda think you're doing, wearing the cloak of psychiatry to do it. Look, if you want to genuine…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/10/14 02:38 PM
11

Can you post one? No, but the problem is this evidentiary standard is bizarre. Lack of statement about feeling x is no evidence of absence of feeling x, in a subreddit where feeling x is orthogonal to the main focus of discussion. To argue by example, I might claim that members of a subreddit focusing on military history have no compassion for the individual victims of war, and cite as evidence lack of expression of same in the sub. The problem is, the whole purpose of military history is to tak…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/10/14 09:30 PM
11

How does being low status result in an inability to see other people's perspectives (i.e. empathize)? You're still begging the question here, we haven't established RP's generally have trouble with this. If anything, many of them are too sensitive to other people's perspectives and are highly invested in what the people around them think about the world and them. One of the "bravery statements" in TRP is "be less invested in what other people think or feel." You have any ideas on how to reach so…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/10/14 06:42 PM
12

The totally awesome way to help people who don't know they have problems is to publicly shame them for their lack of self-awareness. Funny how since they've grown belligerent, everyone's coming out of the wood-work to "help" them. The "proper context" for you is they're mentally ill, which is just a manipulation intended to maintain control of the narrative. I'm saying they're not mentally ill, they're just low-status.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/10/14 06:14 PM
12

Aspie males are a subset of low status males, so this post may be true, but incomplete. Aspies (in my limited experience) can be made to understand the feelings of others (and their own) but it has to be framed in highly intellectualized or systematized language. The "profile" of TRP is low status males looking to become high status males. I'm pretty sure you could pick random posts and see this. It's basically a bravery debate The archetypal "coming to the red pill" stories are "I never got any…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/10/14 05:53 PM
2

You're most welcome, and I think what you plan to say is exactly on point. Good luck.
/r/MarriedRedPill21/10/14 08:52 PM
2

I kinda think you should consider just promising not to use force again as a matter of principle and show of good faith. In one sense, this is just the right thing to do and very captainy, and may feel like a concession, but it's actually a strategic move. Right now, she's going to fold the right to flash your friends into her right to be free of physical coercion. If you concede that front, you only have to fight her on the boobs issue. If you do feelings, she can come back with "well, your fee…
/r/MarriedRedPill21/10/14 07:48 PM
-2

Your FO is not a child, so the whole punishment thing is the wrong dynamic IMO. Basically, you both need to apologize to each other for respective transgrassions, admit fault take responsibility yada. If she's like what you say she is, I imagine she's going to be horribly embarrassed by the whole thing - but I think a very serious discussion is in order about the reasons why she did what she did. Possibly, negotiate reduced to no alcohol consumption in the future.
/r/MarriedRedPill21/10/14 06:21 PM
1

Sorry - I should've replied directly to you - see my reply to /u/countpudyoola below - just my opinion of course. (Edit: Basically, I think you've got to get yourself to a place where you're basically willing and ready to divorce over this.)
/r/MarriedRedPill15/10/14 09:00 PM
2

No expert here - he's better off going to MMSL and bringing the issue to the forum directly - or better yet booking time with one of the coaches there maybe - but he basically needs to get papers drawn up and present her with those and needs to come from a very strong place. Right now he basically looks weak to her. So I'm agreeing with you - what I mean in my OP is that it's going to take a serious ultimatum to resolve the core issue.
/r/MarriedRedPill15/10/14 08:59 PM
1

http://marriedmansexlife.com/2012/12/new-years-eve-and-it-just-happened/ May find that helpful She never specifically admitted to texting this other guy, but she committed to moving forward with me, all teary eyed. My read is you haven't really blown this out of the water yet, and she hasn't accepted responsibility just trickle-truthed you, driving it underground (and not very well - she's still pretty careless). You're headed towards the A/B ultimatum I would think
/r/MarriedRedPill14/10/14 09:29 PM
2

http://marriedmansexlife.com/2014/07/why-was-her-affair-partner-worse-than-me/
/r/MarriedRedPill14/10/14 09:20 PM
2

Which is exactly the sort of thing simply stating the average hides.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/14 09:07 PM
3

Well, I got out of a three year program with 0. Took a couple of years off. Another 2-year program brought me to 1, where I happily remain (thank you awesome marriage) So - what's our average?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/14 08:42 PM
3

wow your anecdotal data is surely more accurate
/r/PurplePillDebate14/10/14 07:54 PM
5

I don't like how TRP is trying to recentre the category of "women" on "the worst examples of women"
/r/PurplePillDebate13/10/14 05:38 PM
4

Sure - good question. ...actually, let me do this backwards. If you look at what women complain about nowadays in dating, sexuality, etc. - they talk about being harassed, being afraid, etc. (I won't dig up sources on the assumption we're at least on the same page here). Traditional modes of "meet'n'greets" - chaperoned dances, debutante balls, etc. were actually a solution to this problem - policed events where propriety was enforced. Now, I'm not so silly as to expect these ancient structures …
/r/PurplePillDebate13/10/14 05:32 PM
1

Right - which was probably the right play given context. But I see it more of a stalemate the a win - and I'd suspect another test coming.
/r/MarriedRedPill13/10/14 05:13 PM
2

Ya - it's really hard at first, but you can pass a shit test just by maintaining eye contact and standing straight.
/r/MarriedRedPill13/10/14 06:32 AM
7

You're preaching to the choir. I'm one of the reactionaries who want to re-establish traditional courtship and think sex should come after emotional connection. TRP is a rational reaction to the current zeitgeist until our culture comes to its senses again.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/10/14 06:28 AM
1

I dunno - not to be discouraging but it sounds a little like you avoided confrontation instead of facing it.
/r/MarriedRedPill13/10/14 05:26 AM
10

Maybe true - but so what? Look at it from the mans perspective - you can be a beta, and catch her on the way down, or you can be an alpha and enjoy cheap commitment free sex. Cost benefit, and incentives.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/10/14 02:11 AM
2

Check the national marriage project link - it states outright that divorce doesn't correlate with # of partners in men.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/10/14 07:35 PM
6

Stating only the average hides the variance. Here Between the ages of 18 & 19, there is an 8 point spread between the # of men & women who have lost their virginity. This implies that, after an initial period of "promiscuous people losing their virginity to each other", female virgins are having their first experience with a more limited number of experienced men. Additionally, the OP wants to "normalize" the # of partners for women around 20-30. In fact, this would be an outlier, here (which is…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/10/14 07:31 PM
6

Alright, let's do the math: say they start becoming sexually active at age 17. Check your privilege. Only sexually-successful males get to lose their virginity that early. Hell, there are lots of guys in their 30's that are still virgins.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/10/14 03:26 PM
2

I'm a little concerned about this whole thing of making plans/meaningful life changes without consult. Maybe you're getting out of the mindset of asking permission for everything but maybe going too far the other direction. Here's what the convo's look in the /u/roe_ household: "I want to do x this xday night - any problems on your end?" Instituting plans and just expecting her to adapt after the fact is... problematic. The point of the Captain/FO dynamic is peace & security & a reasonable measu…
/r/MarriedRedPill11/10/14 06:28 PM
1

In practice, this is highly dependent on where he lives, and the attitude of local law-enforcement and whatever judge he gets &etc.
/r/MarriedRedPill11/10/14 06:15 PM
4

You'll probably get a lot of advice, and you're in for some pointed questions when you get home. I guess my take is be somewhat honest: "I've realized that I'm giving much more to this relationship then what I'm getting and I'm not happy about it. I needed some time to think about that." There will probably be either screaming or tears, but you've got to hold frame through that and make your case as calmly as possible. She will probably then try to play the victim - don't get drawn into some hug…
/r/MarriedRedPill11/10/14 01:37 AM
1

Overall, seems fine. She says okay, try's to make some small talk, and I stay quite, she finally says she's going to let me go. Hm. Why quiet here? But I feel like your telling us to fuck off http://marriedmansexlife.com/2012/10/fitness-testing-vs-loyalty-testing/ This is starting to sound like a loyalty test. Might be you need to recalibrate away from aloofness. Need more context/relationship background to say for sure.
/r/MarriedRedPill11/10/14 01:06 AM
2

Standard piece of advise for any potentially abusive situations: be record to record the interaction with your phone.
/r/MarriedRedPill09/10/14 04:27 AM
2

Downvoted, because: you are likely to leave and take your daughter with you would be a huge tactical error, and a transparently empty threat besides - family court would come down like a ton of bricks on this guy if he took a child like that. Also, I don't think a thread about an abusive situation that could escalate (thankfully it didn't) is the place to be talking about SMV.
/r/MarriedRedPill09/10/14 04:25 AM
2

This study here on recidivist sexual offenders finds a low effect size of adverse childhood environment. Edit: Another abstract - more then half of men reporting sexually aggressive acts report no history of sexual abuse.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/10/14 12:16 AM
7

I guess the best way to reduce rape is to talk about sexuality, sex, and consent. Just in general. I'm not sure about this - David Lisak's study shows a small percentage of men (6% or so) are responsible for the majority of rapes, and commit multiple rapes (an average of ~6 forcible and ~3 intoxicant-assisted). These men tend to show high degrees of antisociality. These men are highly unlikely to be swayed by discussions about consent. Feminists have made talking about risk factors (like binge d…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/10/14 11:36 PM
6

But... expanding the definition of rape would, in an absolute sense, increase the number of rapes. Trollololololol
/r/PurplePillDebate06/10/14 11:29 PM
3

Thanks - that is very encouraging to me. Dealing with my daughters idiosyncrasies (even though I understand intimately where she's coming from) takes a lot of effort and patience, and it's comforting to have evidence that I'm contributing to her future well-being.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/10/14 03:44 AM
5

Hi - undiagnosed, but probably aspie here (I have a daughter who's diagnosed, so heritibility & yada). Here's a bunch of opinions you may find helpful (for how mating worked pre-modernity, which mating decisions are somewhat still "leashed" to): I want to understand why people choose to intertwine their relationships with social appraisal/status (the whole Beta/Alpha hierarchy). I... don't think people "choose" this - mate evaluation is largely unconscious, with a bunch of neo-cortex "narrative …
/r/PurplePillDebate05/10/14 06:08 PM
1

Pretty much this - I was in the same position when I redpilled, and I've done everything from agree & amplify to "say please" to an *exceptionally" disapproving stare-down. We're now just in the habit of being extremely respectful towards each other. This stuff does matter - especially in terms of the tone of your relationship with your children watching.
/r/MarriedRedPill03/10/14 12:22 AM
2

This does not deserve downvotes. It's a good question.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/10/14 01:31 AM
1

I do. Or did. I worked a lot on it and it's better, but definitely not intuitive. I have a kid with high-functioning ASD. I'm undiagnosed, but I suspect...
/r/PurplePillDebate01/10/14 01:30 AM
2

Heuristic: would you do it for a male friend?
/r/PurplePillDebate01/10/14 12:30 AM
2

No, it's never a waste of time - big picture, it's not just about the bedroom, but the whole project of masculine self-actualization. Even if you can't revive your marriage, you're better-positioned to find someone else.
/r/MarriedRedPill30/09/14 12:39 AM
2

This is a psychology priming study, Scott Alexander just put a good post up on priming studies here. Money quote: The policeman asks the psychologists what they’re doing. The psychologists say “Studying propensity to violence in the few minutes after someone plays a video game.” The policeman asks “And this is going to reveal important principles about why people are violent in real life?” The psychologists say “No, but it’s really easy to study.” So, will this study reveal important principles …
/r/PurplePillDebate26/09/14 05:52 PM
1

Yes, thanks, I agree - it is irrational but it seems just something built into (most) male brains. Highly relevant - there's a whole bunch of stuff about other-consciousness that we miss out on, which seems randomly scattered around the population, and some of that stuff is correlated with gender.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/09/14 08:49 PM
3

That is crazy.... ....I mean, everybody knows capsaicin is fat-, not water-soluable so you're supposed to drink milk. :DDD
/r/PurplePillDebate25/09/14 07:00 PM
1

I had (what I thought was) a fairly interesting and productive discussion with /u/GridReXX about paternity certainty here One of the big positive things I got from TRP & the 'sphere was an intellectualized understanding of some of the drivers of women's emotional life & mating decisions. Taking an approach of "understanding an alien species" actually, in the end, made me feel more positive and understanding towards women, and made the "gender wars" seem very tractable.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/09/14 06:58 PM
1

Well... it's how a woman thinks when she's shit-testing you. I get it - it's frustrating and the fundamental attribution error kicks in. But it's a trap! The title of your post is "How to argue..." and the answer has to be with reason and not anger. And you have to at some level have a basic faith that you'll both respond to reason in the big picture.
/r/MarriedRedPill25/09/14 03:30 PM
1

Dude "beneficial" is just a synonym for "good."
/r/PurplePillDebate25/09/14 01:58 AM
2

Oh God NONONONO. Ahem. No. It is not "rational" - it's just what her brain was programmed to do by Azazoth the blind idiot god of evolution. [CITATION NEEDED] The "rational" thing to do in a civilization with a gov't monopoly on the use of force is to continue the human project of selectively breeding smart, peaceful humans by falling in love with a smart, peaceful man.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/09/14 01:58 AM
1

Right - another thing (now that I think about it) - I'm non-judgmental about sexual fetishes and stuff, but I find descriptions of cuckold fetishes really squicky and a bit soul-destroying.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/14 09:09 PM
0

What's "good" or "bad" is in the bailiwick of "morality" ;)
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/14 09:08 PM
2

Why stop at the relatively innocuous lying about partner count? Why not ask if a woman can cuckold a man if sexual strategy is amoral?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/14 08:51 PM
2

You're welcome - I remember being there. Eventually I just kind of internalized everything and it becomes kind of effortless - hopefully you'll find it's the same.
/r/MarriedRedPill24/09/14 08:49 PM
7

A wise man once said "Fights about nothing are fights for control of the relationship" My stock response to this type of thing is stony silence - if we need to have a discussion about how chores are assigned, we can have that discussion. But none of this "you're not doing the job to my arbitrary satisfaction" BS. You're right that it's about respect - where I think you're wrong is that your wife is just going to naturally fall into your frame. Respect is earned, and you earn respect with patienc…
/r/MarriedRedPill24/09/14 05:55 PM
3

One mistake I think a lot of guys make when they're trying to get their sex life back on the rails is obsessing over individual interactions like this. What you want to do is change the over-all tone and structure of all your interactions. So, don't worry about it, you did fine. The point is, you are making your needs and boundaries known, sex is back on the table, and there is a general sense that actions have consequences. Every time you change the terms of your relationship like this you dest…
/r/MarriedRedPill24/09/14 05:24 PM
1

Yes, thank you - it's a complicated mix of emotions.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/14 05:12 PM
4

Yes, that's analogous. Let me hit you with (maybe) a more accurate analogy: Imagine you read in the paper that the hospital you had your child at has become known for mixing up babies, and there's x% probability that your child was one of the mix-ups. Just the visceral emotional reaction to that. That's what it's like to be male all the time (on the base-emotional level). There may be a basic difference to you between "the child I've been raising isn't mine" and "my husband now has to split his …
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/14 04:47 PM
7

I've never been in a romantic relationship with a women who was promiscuous, so can't really speak to that, but here's my contribution: One time, I was reading a book... Matt Ridley I think... about the evolution of human sexuality, and it got me thinking about hypotheticals - like what if my daughter (very young at the time) wasn't actually mine biologically? (Note: far-flung hypothetical, very trusting of my wife) And my emotional visceral to that surprised me - Rage. White hot rage. Like, vio…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/14 04:21 PM
10

The Objectification Model of human sexuality is, IMO, hopelessly not-even-wrong and broken. Here. What is actually going on is not turing a "subject" into an "object" but turning an "agent" into an "experiencer" - which is different because you don't care about your lawn-mower but you care about something that experiences things. When you look at fanciful descriptions of sex - this is exactly what's happening. "He was wild with passion" "She was swept away by the tide of lust" &etc. Agency is re…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/09/14 03:46 PM
3

It looked chaotic to me - enclosed space, and he tried to de-escalate by walking away from her to the other side of the elevator. If it was a man of equivalent size & weight of Janay Rice, somehow I doubt we'd be having this discussion about "proportional force".
/r/PurplePillDebate23/09/14 03:52 PM
2

Fair enough - I may have focused too much on the object-level argument.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/09/14 03:38 PM
6

Easy to say that from behind a keyboard, much harder to do in an actual violent conflict. It's also ambiguous (from the video) whether he punched (closed-fist) or pushed (open hand) her (her head pretty clearly clipped the railing which may have been what caused the concussion)
/r/PurplePillDebate23/09/14 03:17 PM
3

This is a salient point - but it does present a problem. The reason we have an adversarial justice system is because it's the best way to weigh a case based on evidence and establish truth. Employers use no such mechanism. Now, the Rice case is pretty cut-and-dried because of the video evidence, but it sets a worrying precedent.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/09/14 03:14 PM
6

Stockholm syndrome The weight of the evidence (IMO) is that it's a high-conflict marriage and it got out of hand at the casino. Stockholm syndrome requires the abuse to only go in one direction, and I think there's convincing evidence that Janay Rice was quite physically aggressive before the altercation in the elevator - it's also incredibly obvious she rushed at him. So I think the "Stockholm Syndrome" hypothesis should be disqualified.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/09/14 02:48 PM
2

Yes, we have to adapt to new rules (which are driven by larger technological and cultural forces) - nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with what TRP is normatively doing - spreading information and support. But it's worth discussing whether we want "feminism" to be our hated out-group. Let the feminists be feminists.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/09/14 06:03 PM
3

ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK!
/r/PurplePillDebate19/09/14 05:57 PM
6

Sure - but this is treating human relationships as bournoulli urn problems, which misses whole levels of nuance and informationally relevant criteria which play into mate selection. If TRP is suggesting that ONS's or short-term strategies are good things for men to pursue, they're recommending a strategy which will cause men to sleep (by your own assertions) with a psychopath. Remember: I'm the guy who's saying "Chestertons fence" and that the old norm of establishing an emotional bond before se…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/09/14 04:05 PM
3

I fully agree and support the assertions that a) institutions should be restructured around shared parenting, support for male victims of abuse and b) men have the sovereignty to avoid or engage in relationships for whatever reasons or justifications satisfy them. But men should also have correct information to act on, and TRP is found somewhat wanting on that account.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/09/14 04:00 PM
6

Along the restricted dimension of mating preferences: Yup!
/r/PurplePillDebate19/09/14 03:54 PM
6

I wouldn't make such an argument about feminism. Pills that allow you to control fertility though? Pretty big environmental change...
/r/PurplePillDebate19/09/14 02:47 PM
3

But we're clearly a "mixed-strategy" species, so which strategy gets deployed is going to be influenced by the environment.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/09/14 02:26 PM
8

It's self-contradictory to say that genes interact with environment, and that we are not a tournament-species as if that's a determinant. If the environment can affect how violence someone is, the environment can affect how tournament-y or pair-bonding we are. So, currently, (maybe right, maybe wrong) - women seem to have the option of being extremely tournament-y at one phase in life, and extremely pair-bonding in another. And men can respond by being more tournament-y or pair-bond-y to match t…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/09/14 01:45 PM
10

I'm in love now. Here's the thing: TRP is focusing on the statistical margins of female behaviour and mistaking it for representative. The reality is: most women are nice. They're not all opportunistically hypergamous, they're not all run alpha fux/beta bux, they're not looking to divorce rape you. Ya, some are, and it's good to be aware they're out there, and they can use the state as a weapon to fuck you. But most of 'em wouldn't, because sociopaths make up like 2% of the population.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/09/14 01:39 PM
2

I guess I'm not sure there's much more to add to what we've already said, but I feel like you're still missing what I'm saying. I'm not convinced those old courtship rituals were actually followed any more than today's are. No - I get it. The problem is, I can't find an evidentiary foothold to update on one way or the other. I don't know where to put credence. Initially when I read your response, I ran off and looked up historical stats on unplanned pregnancy and STI transmission for some kind o…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/09/14 01:34 PM
2

Re: history Right - but that's just it. We've gone from a culture where people feel obligated to lie a little bit about how they met if they "meet seedy" to a culture where you feel obligated to lie a little bit about how many blow jobs in club bathrooms you've given/received - if you're the type of person who's into that sort of thing. This is a bit of a change in the Overton window. Even if it is the case that a huge number of people met sleazy and fudged the truth, I think it's largely irrele…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/09/14 08:39 PM
2

I do wonder, though, whether things have ever been more straightforward. There's a sense in which the old traditional courtship norms were more honest - that is, chaperoned events were set up with the implicit, unstated purpose of meet potential mates - which was unspoken but accepted - and the "chaperoned" part was explicitly for the safety and comfort of women. The problem isn't that we tore this down - the problem is we didn't replace it with anything. Are we really just back to the same way …
/r/PurplePillDebate18/09/14 03:34 AM
3

What I like about The Avengers is every character has an arc where they have to confront their shadow-side. Egoist Tony Stark nobly sacrificed himself. Captain America had to confront his loyalty to an (ultimately) corrupt institution. I think every Red Pill guy started out as Captain America, confronted the corrupted nature of the current gender system they were being asked to serve, and ended up as Tony Stark (or at least, a Tony Stark wannabe).
/r/PurplePillDebate17/09/14 07:58 PM
1

Thanks - I suspect you're basically right - I remember one post of Nerdlove's that really bugged me, where some guys (in the game industry) was flirting with some girls (in same industry, in the course of a business arrangement) where she didn't explicitly tell him to back off, but published the convo later - and Nerdlove completely failed to hold her to account for her inability to set boundaries. He falls into that male feminist trap of seeing women as completely without agency in these situat…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/09/14 02:38 PM
1

So, this is a tricky area. Here's what I'd say: Conceding the point, but not taking action on it (as you say, through weak-will or akrasia or whatever) = weak Conceding the point & taking action on it (when in your interest to do so & in your own time) = alpha Conceding the point & taking action on it (when not in your interest) = weak You really have to read into her intention - is she coming from a place of concern for you, your health, the relationship or is it just a shit test? This is highl…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/09/14 02:31 PM
1

Yikes - that's a damning indictment. Thanks - I'll put the kibosh on recommending him until a further update. I'll put this question to you: do you think his advice is useless for anyone, or is it a matter of he's counter-indicated for guys who are too timid with women?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/09/14 09:14 PM
1

Here's how it unpacks for me: Alpha is the expected stuff you mentioned, like being in shape and having traditionally masculine hobbies and stuff, but also: -not backing down or "losing frame" in conflicts - you can lose arguments, but you have to do so gracefully and not look weak - a lot of this comes down to holding strong body-language and eye-contact even if you're backing down and apologizing never ever being passive-aggressive - being as straightfoward as possible always be funny, but in …
/r/PurplePillDebate16/09/14 09:08 PM
1

This thread is basically dead, and I'm not too confident either Ozy or Scott are following, but I'm still here, so I'll jump in. The answer to your first general query is, I think, because in modernity, wearing the mantle of oppressed victimhood is a pathway to power, goodies from the gov't, &etc. It's also an excellent way to reinforce in-group norms. I agree with your stance on gender norms - with the addendum that they also tend to maximize happiness. I say this because certain classes of "ge…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/09/14 08:53 PM
2

To both, Why should any man go through the pain of learning how to be alpha to get one woman who has had all the love in the world? You should do whatever you judge will maximize your future happiness. I'll be frank: TRP offers a path forward, resources and the assurance that you have the right to pursue relationships with women, but does not guarantee success. But the tone there is awful for someone in your situation - there are other resources out there that can help you with women where you m…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/09/14 02:15 PM
1

I don't know. I don't live there :P No, there's virtually no male-only anything in North America AFAIK. Unless you count gay gyms & bathhouses. ("Men's Shed's" are a north UK phenomenon I thought)
/r/PurplePillDebate14/09/14 04:13 AM
0

It says right in the article that the results indicate that men are less likely to communicate Ya, but that was the researcher expressing an opinion - we have no idea if this is borne out by the data.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/09/14 09:02 PM
-1

Because you made a promise - in front of your friends and family - that you'd stick it out with this person. I mean, we can be honest and rewrite what we say, but "I promise to remain loyal and faithful until it's no longer convenient for me" doesn't have the same ring to it. ;)
/r/PurplePillDebate13/09/14 08:49 PM
1

Alimony is not the worst outcome - being forcibly separated from your children (for all but every other weekend) is the worst outcome. You might reply that this doesn't happen in the majority of divorces, but people buy insurance all the time on unlikely outcomes with a high negative utility - flood, earthquake, etc. Yes, men are insecure and fearful about divorces. They should be.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/09/14 08:45 PM
1

There's a thing that's been discussed on this sub: certain sexual kinks make people super orgasmic - but they can't model themselves well enough to imagine this, until they actually try it in a sexual context. Have experienced this myself. So people should experiment with their sexuality to see what's the most fun. Well, what if the same is true across your entire relationship? What if stepping outside of egalitarian norms makes you happier? You should experiment with your relationship dynamics.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/09/14 02:26 AM
1

I don't understand why campus men's groups have to be modelled after feminist women's groups. I'm all for stable family formation with strong male role-models, but this is a hard change to make on a society-wide scale.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/09/14 08:44 PM
1

Are you playing "no true scotsman" with dialog right now? Look, I know MRAs are pro-loosening gender-roles, but this is not the same as "renouncing masculinity" - reclaiming masculinity is going to have to involve a balanced approach. We have to be a little bit realistic about current constraints in how much we can reform society.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/09/14 08:13 PM
1

Actually, I think you can model a "men's group" after the old-timey "gentlemen's club" (before they became strip clubs) - which were really just safe-zones for men. What "becoming a man" means is going to have to be what we say it is - men's groups is just the space to do that in.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/09/14 08:09 PM
3

I grew up in a country where pretty much women are required to be meek. Women back home were told to speak only when spoken to. Also the they find it attractive if you are submissive and subservient. This seems a little strong. I wouldn't like to live in a society with restricted roles like this. That said, I think dom/sub dynamics are kind of background noise to all social relationships. It's also context dependant when people are in the sub or dom role, and I don't think anyone plays either ro…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/09/14 08:03 PM
2

Oh, of course there's a dialog. Anti-feminist or questioning-feminism articles are regularly published in Time magazine, Barbara Kay has a column in the National Post, Christina Hoff-Sommers has a very successful youtube channel. If you pay attention, you can see the Overton Window moving, bit by bit.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/09/14 07:17 PM
1

Can I just point out that establishing men's groups on college campuses would really do a lot to combat this problem? And that everytime someone's tried to do this, campus feminists have fought it tooth and nail? This is one instance where, in a really direct and non-arguable way, feminism is the problem.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/09/14 07:14 PM
2

Right - and maybe - but earlier you were making a positive claim that feminism was responsible for boys underperforming in school and I don't see support for that. I do support education reforms that make school more boy-friendly so there's probably common ground there. The WAW (Women Are Wonderful) effect is both cultural and institutional. I think we can (and should) address the institutional aspects.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/09/14 06:52 PM
6

This discussion is kind of falling apart for me.. we started off debated whether feminism had a disproportionate effect on education and now we're talking about whether education is about future employment or the good of children (???)... When you move a set of principles above reproach you institutionalise a belief system you basically create a religion. And that does exponentially more damage long term than just some defective governmental policies. I don't know what this means - who has done …
/r/PurplePillDebate11/09/14 04:32 PM
1

Koss is on the panel for the CDC's Intimate Partner Violence survey - which defines "forced to penetrate" as being in the lesser category of "sexual assault" and not "rape". I agree with your point that there are feminists who support an inclusive definition of rape - but those feminists don't seem to be wielding power in the higher levels of gov'ts that feminists like Koss seem to. So, I think the "Motte & Bailey" analysis kind of applies here (although it's more of a collective unconscious thi…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/09/14 04:27 PM
1

[citation needed] Citation granted
/r/PurplePillDebate11/09/14 03:45 PM
1

My first reaction to this is... a date is a time investment of hours while a relationship is a time investment of years. Why should we expect one thing to map onto the other?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/09/14 03:41 PM
1

No, I mean reactionary and progressive in the most general sense - "reactionary" just means adopting historical values and "progressive" means adopting forward- or future-oriented values. They both have a place in asserting one's masculinity.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/09/14 03:30 PM
6

"we pump them full of drugs as to "not upset the girls" with their budding masculinity" I agree with that. The only reason male aggression has been deemed pathological is to level the playing field for girls and supress agresion in more passive boys. I.. don't think so. The education system was responding to changing economic conditions (that is - employment has become highly cognitively-loaded, and physical labour has been devalued). The schools were responding to the economic conditions by cha…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/09/14 03:27 PM
9

I agree with the spirit of the post, but at times it seems hyperbolic (eg. "we pump them full of drugs as to "not upset the girls" with their budding masculinity" "I see men like Mister Rogers retroactively labeled as a "creep" and "pedophile" because of his interest in helping young children" [citation needed]) Also, it labels the source of these problems "feminism" - when I actually think it is the modern male version of "the problem with no name" - it's more an aggregate of tough-to-unpick so…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/09/14 02:12 PM
1

[Trigger warning: discussion of pedophilia] I interpreted h) as saying that we place higher utility on fulfilling the preferences of people close to us then we do on strangers, which seems just intuitively true. I interpreted i) as saying we are responsible for fulfilling our own preferences, in negotiating with others who will have different (sometimes opposing) preferences. I see why this might intuitively conflict, because h) pattern-matches "community values" and i) pattern-matches "individu…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/09/14 01:46 PM
5

Right - rationality recognizes constraints.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/14 03:12 PM
1

I would describe myself as a consequentialist & preference utilitarian. So that would make b) c) d) g) h) i) l) m) p) q) "agrees"
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/14 12:20 PM
8

This kind of rubs me the wrong way, especially his comparison of the need for sex with the need for employment. Honest question: why does this rub you the wrong way?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/14 12:08 PM
4

Well, unless you want and stable & happy LTR. Then rationality counts for a lot, actually.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/09/14 11:59 AM
2

I don't know - ze's stated a preference, and I abide by it, because I prefer to be nice to people when it's not much trouble to me. I believe Ozy doesn't feel comfortable with either gender identity. I don't quite understand it either. Here is kind-of-the-HQ for Rationalists.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/09/14 09:50 PM
3

Well - ze's dating Scott - the owner of Slate Star Codex, the linked blog - who's very well-respected in that subculture (rationalists).
/r/PurplePillDebate09/09/14 09:33 PM
3

OK, good - so we want concepts like "patriarchy" or "feminine imperative" or whatever to do the right amount of conceptual work - if they explain too much, it's like they explain nothing. Erm.... Sorry, this is getting tangential. Let me try to tether it back. Ozy never refers to the patriarchy in the article, but you are making "ze thinks in an outlier-way about gender" do too much work in evaluating zir arguments. I mean, you don't have to take anyone's argument seriously, but by the same toke…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/09/14 09:10 PM
3

So - is "The Patriarchy" like "The Feminine Imperative"?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/09/14 08:08 PM
5

I will take it in the spirit it's intended - The reason you should think any of those things is because the post is well-argued. If you don't think it's well-argued, you can state where it's not. So, the genetic fallacy, basically.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/09/14 07:36 PM
5

What an unnecessary and viciously stupid thing to say.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/09/14 06:54 PM
1

Misunderstanding - that wasn't a compliment
/r/PurplePillDebate09/09/14 03:40 PM
3

I.. don't think that's Ozy's claim - a) evo psych requires a high burden of proof, which it hasn't met and b) I didn't see where ze asserted that evolution was agentic or intelligent, and I would be extremely surprised if ze made such a foundational error (being associated with the LW community and all).
/r/PurplePillDebate09/09/14 03:38 PM
1

<Applause lights>
/r/PurplePillDebate09/09/14 01:55 PM
1

Granted - although I think it's safe to place these studies in the same rough epistemological category as mating preference shifts in ovulation - remnants of an adaptive system that have small - though perhaps meaningful - effects on behaviour.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/14 09:15 PM
2

Whoa! Ah - I'm being overinterpreted! ;) Packed into "negative attitudes" is basically responding to questionnaires - not acting in the world, just casually processing hypotheticals with system 1 thinking while slightly distracted by other stuff. Because priming is what you're testing for in the first place, what I'm saying is that what the priming is or how it affects judgement can work in a multitude of different ways. Placing value judgements on how the priming works can lead us down a garden…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/14 07:51 PM
1

Ya - I suspect aggressive anti-rape education makes "rape myths" much harder to prime for in young men. I mean, overall, the idea that seeing (for eg.) isolated female body parts in a sexual context would be associated with ideas about interpersonal violence is... odd. I have an intuition that the effect is dominated by questions like "Many women like to roughed up during sex" - without any sexual priming, what stands out about this question may be violence. If you're primed for sexual thoughts,…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/14 07:06 PM
1

Overall, I agree - I don't think modern hypersexualization is a sign of a healthy society, but for different reasons then pointed out by these studies. Basically, my operating hypothesis is that strong negative outcomes like sexual assault, coercion & harassment are dominated by the personal histories of offenders, not by prevalent culture forces or normalizations. This better fits what we see - that most of the crimes are committed by a very small percentage of any given group. I... don't know …
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/14 06:54 PM
1

Also, at the end of your quote, the means are 3.54 and 3.10 in the control. That's a pretty small effect size.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/14 05:22 PM
1

My pleasure! Quoth the study (page 371): Correlations Among Dependent Variables. If the dependent variables are semantically related, as proposed in this study, then the dependent variables should be inter-correlated. As shown in Table 2, the dependent variables were moderately inter-correlated, ranging from r = .42 to r = .55.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/14 05:16 PM
3

Objectifying Media: Their Effect on Gender Role Norms and Sexual Harassment of Women Full study here The effect size on "sexual coercion" (in this case, quid pro quo harassment - making a hiring decision based on her having sex with you) looks to me quite small (less then the SD on each group) They measured two scenerios - taking the attractive job prospect out to dinner or trying to have sex with her - and combined the two things into one score, which they don't break out. It's larger on "gende…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/14 04:41 PM
9

The Effects of Sexually Objectifying Music Videos on College Men's Sexual Beliefs Full study here Instruments used for surveys here (Page 6) Videos in the experimental group include Beyonce's "Upgrade U", Fergie's "Fergilicious" and Hillary Duff's "Stranger" - pretty easy to find on youtube. This is pretty tenuous advocacy research, IMO. Correlations approached "weak" (r~0.5). Answers to questions on surveys ("attitude") don't always translate into real-world outcomes. Lots of other contributing…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/09/14 03:23 PM
2

Maybe - but it's really pretty good for LTRs.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/09/14 04:57 AM
6

I imagine it unpacks into: high conscientiousness, high agreeableness, low neuroticism, low time orientation, high strength-of-character, & somewhat exciting. For the sake of charity, I'll leave out "high income" even though it's probably true in many cases. The problem with delaying marriage, is people with those qualities tend to be in LTRs by their mid-twenties, which turn into marriages. So the total number of quality, eligible mates degrades over time.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/08/14 04:40 PM
12

I'll just quote Ironwood on this one: "It doesn’t matter if she makes more money than you – it just matters that you make enough money to keep your Boat floating on your own. The employment criteria is far more important to women than to men – but if your potential wife makes more money than you, or your current wife makes more money than you, then being intimidated by that in any way is a threat to your Captaincy. Security is a turn-on for women – I get that. But so is confident leadership, acc…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/08/14 04:31 PM
1

Here's how I think "pair-bonding" works - The infatuation phase (h/t Helen Fischer for all the terminology) is the early months of a relationship - where you're basically high on love chemicals the whole time, and trying all types of kinky-sex stuff, trying to figure out what works. This part was designed to get the woman pregnant, quickly. To transition into: The companionate bond, where the sex is probably less frequent, or exciting, but there's just a general aura of love, warmth and positive…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/08/14 07:18 AM
1

There's a new report, here which looks at a bunch of data re: marital satisfaction, and concludes that pre-marital partner count - both short-term & long-term does matter - for women, but not so much for men. It controls for religiosity and other factors. "If a husband is nine or more years older than his wife or two or more years younger, the risk of getting a divorce is twice that of couples who are closer in age." On the one hand, yes, a large age difference isn't a good idea, but I notice th…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/08/14 06:43 AM
5

living together before marriage brings a 25% decrease in likelihood of reporting a "Higher-Quality Marraige" Wait - where does it say this? ("living together without explicit plans to marry" is a different thing then just "living together", I'd think)
/r/PurplePillDebate22/08/14 09:45 PM
4

Weddings are costly signalling, so it makes sense that they would be correlated with marriage satisfaction.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/08/14 09:30 PM
3

The irony of HUS being linked approvingly from here is delicious.
/r/TheRedPill22/08/14 09:26 PM
1

And there are definitely women (probably men too) who don't know that certain sex acts they haven't tried might turn them on greatly Ya - I think that's a salient point - we do seem bad at intuiting which counter-factuals would be total turn-ons if we tried. But this is different then either the claim that you don't know when you're turned-on in the moment, or that you're turned on my something you find repulsive (like movies of animals mating).
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/14 12:30 AM
2

Nah - but maybe this is important: building your foundation on current science is building it on shifting sand. And certain RP thinkers place a lot of weight on certain current science - like say Hasselton's work on shifting ovulatory mating preferences.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/14 12:27 AM
1

Well, no, but I understand the confusion. In relationships, we aren't responsible for the other person's actions, but we are responsible for setting up the incentives for the other person to treat us as we wish. It's how reciprocity in relationships basically works. We can't own the responsibility for the other persons actions, but we can own the responsibility for the consequences of setting up incentives. In psychology it's called "enabling" (in both the positive and negative sense). So, going…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/14 06:30 PM
3

Doesn't change the fact that assholes get laid more then nice guys. If women want fewer male assholes in the world stop fucking them. We're not asking you to stop liking 50 Shades, we're not asking you to read romance novels where the male hero is a mid-level functionary instead of a handsome secretly rich bad-boy. Just stop running back to abusive boyfriends and stop siring children with emotionally distant assholes. We can be strong and vulnerable, we can find the balance between emotional ava…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/14 06:55 PM
1

Fair enough - I'll say this: the feminist meme/slogan "the personal is political" may be the source of the type of relationship damage observed here. That is, many women may feel pressured/obligated by solitary with the sisterhood of feminism to marry the type of "androgynous" men described even though their natural preferences may go the other way. Or they may try to structure their relationship around "egalitarian" ideals rather then the "soft patriarchy" which many women (anecdotally) seem to…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/14 06:32 PM
6

Well, she's a marriage counselor, so it's reasonable to expect her to have enough info to make decent inferences about why and how many marriages (as a proportion of the total) conform to a given pattern. On the order hand, I don't recall * anybody * studying the question of how gender roles affect marriages before we went and started breaking them, so the one-sided demand for rigor here is a bit... Motivated.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/14 04:56 AM
3

The author of the linked article is a marriage counselor who talked about her experience with many couples - its circumstantial, but it's still evidence. All scientific hypotheses start off as simple pattern recognition. I don't see where she or the op mentioned the 50 's as some sort of ideal to aspire to - the proposition that most women prefer to be with a man with a strong sense of his masculinity is deserving of some exploration. This is pretty much what mmsl is all about. The authors descr…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/14 04:42 AM
4

Here's something I think I've learned about masculinity: Once you become truly comfortable with it, you have no problem breaking certain "gender performance" criteria. Like how football players smack each other on the butt - their masculinity isn't in question so they can get away with it. Also, physical conflict - via martial arts or "scrapping" or whatever - is deeply therapeutic. It just is, and there's a pretty obvious evolutionary explanation for why this is so.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/14 03:38 AM
14

Why do feminists/SJWs hate male CEOs so much, but like female CEOs? Male CEOs are privileged members of the patriarchy, female CEOs are bravely defying gender roles. Reverse the sexes - male single fathers are bravely defying gender roles, single mothers, rightly or wrongly, are seen as hypergamous batshit crazy bitches who threw their husbands under the bus of family courts for cash & prizes.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/14 03:31 AM
1

Ya - I do agree that the 'sphere and TRP over-reifies psychological gender dimorphism and kind of thinks wearing a lab coat is doing science or whatever, but this is largely irrelevant. Saying something is "cultural" doesn't make it any less operative - sexual & relationship success is something that has to happen inside a culture, with all the influences that entails. On "game" - I think Mark's work focuses on connected & honest - as opposed to adversarial - relationships, and I think that's pr…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/14 09:52 PM
4

Ya, that's a pretty good tl;dr - but the stuff about attraction is kind of "special case"
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/14 07:44 PM
1

To be fair (to my memory), he doesn't talk about any of this stuff in Models - the quotes are taken from a blog post. To be still more fair, most of the guys coming to TRP are in the phase referred to in the first paragraph of his post. To be even more fair, alpha is aspirational, and kind of self-defined, and although the alpha fux/beta bux may be over-simplistic, it is for sure something to watch out for - even if a statistical minority of women are running it. And to be super-fair, we should …
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/14 07:42 PM
1

Just want to point out that Models has been mentioned in TRP a bunch of times, mostly approvingly: http://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/search?q=mark+manson+models&restrict_sr=on
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/14 06:46 PM
13

Shit-tests are fully general - people in even slightly dom/sub-type social situation (obvious example: boss/employee) - the sub is going to "test" the dom to see what they can get away with. It's information about where the social boundary is, so they know what they can get away with. Consistently failing these means Yay! I can get away with anything I want! Now, employees are expected to be obedient to bosses, but in modern relationships, wives/girlfriends are not necessarily expected to be obe…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/14 06:43 PM
5

One more example: Elizabeth Sheehy, a Candian law prof, argues that battered women should be legally allowed to kill their husbands.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/14 04:01 PM
4

The Tender Years Doctrine is a very influential legal principle which continues to influence family courts. Although large-scale lobbying groups like NOW don't refer directly to it, you can see that strain of thought is still operative. The Duluth model for domestic violence is the actual legal model that's operative in many states in the US and provinces in Canada, even though there's a solid body of research (by Duttin, Strauss and others) that demonstrates that this model doesn't acurately re…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/14 03:11 PM
8

The problem here is, it is like asking How does the government affect your life - who - which people in the government most effect youÉ Feminism is a huge institution with a lot of power, interests and influence - which is fine. The republican and democratic parties are also similar institutions. The difference is, republicans and democrats keep each other in check - there is no institutionally powerful group generally which keeps feminism in check.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/14 01:39 AM
4

Hmmm.... My wife is 3 for 4, to wit: Yup Until the kids, she had a job, and she has a diploma - she will be entering the workforce again soon part time Co-habitated starting in 20s, married after a couple years living together Yup (Me too, BTW) So, my response to the objections: One thing she recognizes is my value as a father, so even if we got divorced it would be mediated with joint custody - I would have to engage in some pretty major assholery for her to go scorched-earth on me. Contrasting…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/14 01:15 AM
10

Here's the thing: Feminism has largely gone unchallenged in the West for the past couple of decades, and they've gotten away with some truly egregious examples of sloppy thinking - the pay gap, the 1 in 5 campus sexual assault study, Superbowl causing spikes in domestic violence, and on and on. Now that there's significant pushback, feminists will have to refine their good arguments and abandon the bad ones. You only build strong muscles, or strong ideas, under resistance. So it's actually a goo…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/14 05:48 PM
1

Here's a Scientific American article on "objectification" - briefly, degrees of nakedness cause the perceiver to associate the perceived as having less "agency" and more "experiencing". And it's not gender-specific. Also: By introspection, sexual arousal is highly associated with perceived arousal cues in the perceived - open body language, pupils dilated, lips parted, &etc. - which suggests that sexual instincts are actually tightly bound up with the perceived as an experiencing being (a subjec…
/r/MensRights11/07/14 08:11 PM
16

Over what time scale would you expect such a theory to change? But, ya, if you read The Mystery Method (2007) you'll see, comparitively, there's a lot less emphasis on structured or prescripted seduction, canned lines, etc. in TRP. Mark Manson's Models (2011) is a completely different approach (it's been approvingly linked to in TRP - although Manson wouldn't identify as a manosphere blogger). Both Roosh and Fourney have criticized "keyboard-warrior" game theorizing without doing real-world appr…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/07/14 03:08 AM
4

Eh. Some people want to understand fourier transforms and perceptual audio coding, some people just want to listen to MP3s. Thing is, progress depends on the first group.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/14 11:27 PM
1

Accused, yes That's why I'm purple not red.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/07/14 12:30 AM
1

I'm late to this party, but I think it's hilarious that after a year of hating and ruthlessly mocking the red pill, reddit is trying to sweet talk them into buying back into the conventional relationship model - which doesn't exist anymore anyway.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/14 01:35 PM
1

Thousands?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/14 01:20 PM
1

Thank you!
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/14 01:18 PM
1

Scientology is a weak comparison - Scientologists use physical and psychological coercion. In many cases, people come to non-mainstream sources of help like AK because mainstream counselling has failed. The world is inconsistent, as you say, but AK has leveraged an unacknowledged-by-the-mainstream pattern in social psychology, which is strong evidence that pattern exists (though it may not be universal). shouldn't we err on the side of not pidgeonholing people into predefined gender roles? Yes, …
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/14 01:17 PM
1

See my response to /u/Aerobus
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/14 01:11 PM
1

As my tag says - purple pill. I think RP only describes one meaningful facet of romantic relationships. But I also think gender norms and performance are meaningful expressions of human preference and happiness.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/14 01:10 PM
1

Not in the business of crushing children's dreams ;) - she's quite young and wouldn't really understand the reasons anyway.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/07/14 01:09 PM
12

Now that you mention it - maybe she'll marry a great SAHD - here's hoping!
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/14 09:09 PM
13

Two girls - just starting school. I plan to encourage them to pursue whatever they are passionate about - with a little guidance about how to leverage that into financial independence. I hope America is rid of the current mess that is combat-dating and the pluralistic ignorance clusterfuck that is hookup culture. I hope to teach them how to think & be true to themselves. I hope there are good men around (I have reasonable evidence that they'll both grow up to be hetero) My youngest wants to be "…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/14 05:59 PM
3

What is the concept, and what is his evidence for it? Free market + empiricism. Kay makes a tidy living counselling people, and lots of people are happier with some form of the C/FO dynamic. Right back atcha - what's your evidence that "equality" is an awesome relationship dynamic?
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/14 05:34 PM
2

Oops - so you did.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/14 05:28 PM
7

It's accessible! (And the main tool AK uses to communicate the idea)
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/14 04:38 PM
2

Individual men may be able to survive without women but the human race can't.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/14 04:21 PM
14

So the man is in charge, and the woman does what he says Wrong, wrong, wrong - both as a descriptor of the dynamic between an actual, military Captain & First Officer, and as the dynamic in a marriage. Think of the relationship between Picard & Riker - Picard had final say, but Riker always had input and was a trusted adviser and was capable of running things in Picard's absence. Also, there's nothing to say the woman can't be the Captain, except psychological dimorphism - the originator of the …
/r/PurplePillDebate28/06/14 02:39 PM
9

Er - you might want to pick another metaphor. TRP is already seen as predatory enough. Realistically, men & women have to engage in win-win negotiations, not win-lose wars, and this very much is about survivability.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/14 05:55 PM
2

Gender roles can always be reversed - but there are default settings (or Bayesian priors).
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/14 05:02 PM
7

Mom & kids have an strong empathic bond (I've observed) - and it's the fathers job to interrupt that bond more and more over time so the kids identify less with mom and more with themselves. Works the other way, to - sometimes moms identify with the kids so much she sacrifices her own self-interest and it's the dad who re-enforces mom's interests.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/14 04:49 PM
20

No. Neither gender can survive or thrive without the other, so designating one gender as "superior" is a bit silly. And men & women are, considered over all traits, more similar than different. Qualifiers: Men have more "shallow" or wider variance IQs - which is why more insights important to intellectual progress tend to be made by men, and why men tend to take on low-status, high-risk jobs. I don't expect "gender-parity" in either of these areas to be reached ever. Physical dimorphism, obvious…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/14 04:14 PM
1

Seriously?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/06/14 01:51 PM
1

Note please I said "support" as in child-support, not "alimony". Different thing and child support payments don't stop until the kid is 18.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/06/14 01:29 PM
1

The whole gender/sexuality thing is hugely mal-adapted to modernity anyway - I expect the first thing trans-humanists would do is re-program it from the ground up. Predictions are essentially useless for singularity-type events.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/06/14 12:51 AM
0

Hyperreal mentioned the legal incentives, which I think has something to do with it. A woman would have to be a great deal more unhappy if she didn't get the house & kid(s), plus support. If she has one kid in tow, a lot of guys will marry her up again - so she's getting access to his salary plus her ex's support payments. Pretty good deal. I'll mention another speculative hypothesis: during & after a pregnancy, a pair-bonded man's testosterone level drops and he doubles-down on beta hard. If he…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/06/14 12:33 AM
1

I won't deny that cultural Marxists are highly influential in certain academic subcultures (including feminists) and may have factored into some of the broader changes, but I very much don't think they're the primary drivers. Bluepillers themselves are a small subset of people who have specific interests - and don't have much influence outside of other SWJ's. Re: religion - I do see a giant gaping hole in our collective psyche which religion used to fill, and think one of the challenges of moder…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/14 09:47 PM
3

Ya, I've read the neo-reactionary stuff, but frankly I'm skeptical of the narrative. For example, I think economic prosperity, the industrial revolution, and technological advancement is the primary driver of progressive politics, not some weird conspiracy of politicos nobody's ever heard of. Some examples (referring to your post) - the primary "clan" divisions in the West are typically associated with religion, and apostasy rates aren't due to cultural marxists, but to the expansion of science …
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/14 08:16 PM
1

Y'know, I have a lot of progressive friends, and a few months ago one of them used the term "misandry." Now, it was used snarkily, but they knew the word, didn't have to explain it, and there wasn't even a word to describe that concept until quite recently. I've noticed a kind of shifting in the wind - I see less "pro-feminist" stuff on facebook even from my progressive friends. A few people who are close enough to me to say unfiltered stuff have told me stuff like the "pendulum has swung too fa…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/14 07:04 PM
3

I agree that "third world problems" trump "first world problems" generally for impact, trauma, importance, etc. ...but - domestic & sexual violence are actually serious problems in both first and third world countries and need credible movements to address them. The MRM (and others) is holding feminist to account for reality-based models of how these problems work and what to do about them. Secondly, I think the problems of third-world men are very much on the radar of the MRM, to wit: https://w…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/14 06:21 PM
1

I agree with your assessment that it's more an "alignment of various influences" rather than anything planned or conscious (ie. a conspiracy). I don't think feminism has anything to do with consumer spending (in fact, I've used consumer spending stats on some of my feminist friends to counter "patriarchy"-type characterizations) - just that maybe women tend to cluster more tightly in their spending habits and so are easier for marketers to predicts. I don't have a problem with any of that - one …
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/14 06:08 PM
5

Here is an interesting video of Erin Pizzey talking about her experiences with the feminist movement in the UK during it's early days: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK1BhS_Ynqg Basically, there's an idea that feminism is still around because it employs a lot of women, it's good for the system because it keeps labour costs down (by keeping women in the labour force instead of quitting to raise kids), is an excellent way of buying votes (Obama just said [paraphrasing] that women are smarter and …
/r/PurplePillDebate24/06/14 05:13 PM
3

Hold up - we're not fully understanding MacKay's position, which is (based on his original comments to the Star here) that during infancy the presence of the mother is more important than the father. That not an unreasonable position - the science on breastfeeding and maternal bonding (IMO) is clear. I'm no kind of tradcon. I am a father and recognize fatherhood as super-important, but trust me, during infancy we're basically running support.
/r/MensRights20/06/14 02:00 PM
1

It may not be a diagnoses in an of itself, but it's one of the diagnostic criteria for all kinds of nasty cluster B stuff. Here You don't know me, but when I say "concerned" I mean "updated in favour of from an ignorance prior, but more info needed" - that's also why I qualified it with therapy, but I guess I could have added "or she's a statistical outlier."
/r/PurplePillDebate13/06/14 04:37 AM
13

Protect, provide, procreate. The challenge is, how do you process that through the filter of modernity?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/14 08:34 PM
5

Ya - 30 partners by 25 I'd honestly be concerned about her mental health. It's not even about attractiveness or value, more like "serious interpersonal problems ahead." (Pure probability here - no judgement) If she had done therapy and worked at addressing her issues, different story.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/14 08:29 PM
1

So, in general I think your criticisms are about "balance" - let's dig in: There's also the stuff about maintaining frame (never showing weakness), dread game, etc. TRP also approvingly mentions Mark Manson's "Models" - which is a book whose central thesis is comfortable vulnerability is the best thing to cultivate (and I agree with this). Under this (corrected) notion - "maintaining frame" is not letting your body collapse and your brain wither under criticism - good advice for life. Dread game…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/06/14 08:25 PM
1

I think institutional solutions like sex-ed have a limited amount of impact - all they can really do is teach the biological facts, practical matters like birth control & moral matters like consent. Since I'm a sexual reactionary, I think it falls on parents to model a good relationship - how to negotiate differences productively, how to be affectionate in day-to-day interactions, etc. The reason the SMP is fucked up is because family structure and interaction is fucked up, IMO.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/14 09:21 PM
7

From what Ive seen on redpill marriage forums and elsewhere, this not the usual case. The usual case is that the man is suffering fromnice guy`syndrome, has no personal boundaries, and get treated like a doormat in his relationship. Of course, once he starts drawing boundaries and asserting himself, from the wifes perspective, its not *Oh, hes making himself better* its, *Oh, hes becoming an asshole*. Ya, if you were letting your wife get away with screaming at you for stacking the dishwasher wr…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/14 03:59 AM
5

Inaccurate. Im not haaaapy is the plaintive wail of a woman who proceeds to divorce her husband and blow up her family. Its not her feelings but her actions that are being derided. Dalrock is the one who coined the meme, I believe.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/06/14 12:48 AM
1

Oh! I don't think it's about kidnapping. The thing about newborns is - excluding race, they all look basically the same. It would be really easy to accidentally switch two babies around and give them to the wrong mothers completely by accident.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/06/14 01:54 PM
1

Oops - forgot to mention they're computerized: http://www.dnacenter.com/science-technology/articles/infant-mix-up-2.html
/r/PurplePillDebate04/06/14 11:37 PM
0

If a child is found to be the progeny of an unexpected father, should he be hunted down and the costs extracted from him? No easy answer for this one.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/06/14 04:34 PM
0

Well, millions of dollars are spent ensuring the mother and child are matched up - ID bracelets and the like. Which ever organization handles that (insurance, gov't or whatever) should also handle paternity testing.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/06/14 04:33 PM
1

Knowing who the father is benefits the child - for all kinds of reasons - including health outcomes (ie. presence of genetic conditions and the like).
/r/PurplePillDebate04/06/14 04:31 PM
1

I have a brother and a sister, but she's gay. Care to speculate on how that affected my perception of gender? ;)
/r/PurplePillDebate03/06/14 08:44 PM
1

Sure - but the way IQ is changing is that the mean is getting driven up - probably due to education, better health interventions, raising standards of child-rearing without physical coercion, &etc. - but there's no indication that the wider male variability is changing at all - probably because the Y chromosome has a higher rate of mutation. As for the education system - I agree that this is a problem that should be addressed. But my experience suggests there is something deeper going on then "n…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/05/14 02:49 PM
1

I don't see how that article refutes in the least what I said upthread. Particularly regarding variability. The meetup group I'm talking about is "nerd culture" free - we don't discuss scifi, comics, fantasy novels or whatever - we discuss science, mathematics, philosophy etc. which should be gender-neutral, right?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/05/14 06:25 PM
2

What does the teacher being gay have to do with anything? Gay males, in particular, have been in the past targeted with "pedo-hysteria", esp. wrt roles as teachers. I have a female friend who teaches art to young kids at a public school. She's mentioned in the past that they are supposed to avoid physical contact with any students, so that might have something to do with it. If it's a universally applied rule which has as it's origin fear of pederasty, I'm thinking that strengthens my point (the…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/14 09:26 PM
2

Hm. One of my kids had a gay male teacher (NB. don't know officially that he was gay - but a very reasonable supposition). I was visiting the class once and one of the kids hurt himself. He cried, and the teacher offered verbal comfort - but not once did he move to make physical contact to sooth the child. Oh! And airlines move male passengers sitting next to children. Which side is the hysteria on, again?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/14 07:23 PM
3

Lots of people are insecure about stuff. The difference (along gender lines), is that when women (in the aggregate) feel insecure, everyone jumps in with sympathy and laws. When men (in the aggregate) feel insecure, "Man up and stop whining, you virgin neckbeard." I personally know men who are divorced, men who have been falsely accused of DV and/or sexual violence. Let me tell you: it is truly terrifying to watch the amount of damage a sociopathic woman can do to a man's life (with no adverse c…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/05/14 05:26 PM
1

I apologize for missing your tongue being in your cheek - if you don't mind, I'll continue as if it is not for fun. "Guided by" is a pretty broad characterization which could be referring to many internal processes. For example, a woman could feel amorous or horny because she was ovulating and saw a man with good bilateral symmetry. Of course, she's free to act or not act on that feeling but the feeling itself would be "guiding" her mate choice. The point of the Ideological Turing Test is to mak…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/05/14 09:00 PM
2

"Women are run by their periods" is an assertion in the /r/science OP - TRP (to my knowledge) never claimed that women's "periods" over-rode their neo-cortex. You fail the Ideological Turing Test.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/05/14 04:14 PM
5

Posteriors updated. This suggests that one or more of core concepts of rpers' understanding may have been based on flawed or incomplete studies. Let's play Ideological Turing Test! Blue pillers, how do you think TRPers should update based on this research, given your understanding TRP ideas? (So far, I've seen "all evo-psych is bullshit" and "so much for biotruths" - which seems strange given this is only one of many evo-psych predictions/bio-truth assertions. We didn't throw out physics because…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/05/14 05:28 PM
1

Cosigned. The narcissist and the co-dependant are both propping up their false-selves in basically a one-way relationship - which is why it's called "narcissistic supply" or they're referred to as "psychic vampires"...
/r/PurplePillDebate16/05/14 05:43 PM
1

The way I understand it: the narcissist acts as if other people don't exist (ie. have their own wants, needs, etc.), and co-dependant acts as if the co-dependant doesn't exist (have their own etc). There are two perspectives one can adopt towards abusers: "judgemental" and "understanding" - both are helpful. Judgemental is useful because it puts boundaries and limits on acceptable behaviour. Understanding is helpful because it links the abusive act to the history of the person - abusive parents,…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/05/14 05:12 PM
5

Not necessarily - there's a spectrum. I don't think they're healthy or fulfilling, but that's different than abuse. The thing is, we tend to see narcissists in these situations as "bad people" when they're just as psychically damaged as the co-dependant.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/05/14 02:01 PM
3

Thanks for the update - physical violence obviously more than crosses the line into abuse. The fact that she's on-again-off-again with this (alleged) shitbird says to me she's co-dependant.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/05/14 05:57 AM
8

A) If we're going to be skeptical about trp field reports, how about some consistency? B) Taken at face value, looks like a narcissist/co-dependent relationship. What's slightly unnerving is I'm pretty sure some significant proportion of trp were in relationships as the co-dependent, and training themselves to be narcissists. So it's unsurprising that a popular article would point to the actions of a narcissist - "see? That's how it's done. " IMO, it's a seriously dysfunctional and traumatic rel…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/05/14 04:22 AM
2

Ya, great question - everybody will eventually experience being subordinate in their profession - even high ranking politicians and captains of industry are subordinate to voters/customers. I have direct experience in this - I work with a very broad variety of clients on projects with varying demands & deadlines, from hours to weeks. So, some heuristics: Clients (customers) like it when you're a bit cocky. If my social-psychology read is correct, it signals that you are willing to polarize or ev…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/05/14 04:59 PM
2

The Men's Movement is a civil rights movement in the "advocacy and consciousness raising" phase. It's basic tenet is that there are various ways that men are treated very callously politically, socially and legally. That's the most succinct, parsimonious definition I can come up with.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/05/14 03:45 AM
1

I think alpha/beta is a useful framework for a man to come to grips with a progressive restructuring of masculinity, but it can also lead to an unbalanced "false-self" shame-driven worldview (see material at therawness.com for more info on that). So in the narrow sense that alpha-ness serves as an aspirational model for masculine-specific self-actualization, a man should be trying to be alpha all the time, yes. That unpacking is necessary 'cause it's such a messy, blurred-boundary concept. (By "…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/14 07:31 PM
1

Nope. I am less compartmentalized than before TRP. Want to bang that redhead in calc 1? Alpha-ness on. Confused by derivates? Alpha-ness off. What do you do if you redhead is the only one who understands derivates? There is strength is asking for help. Seriously. If you maintain frame, you can get her to help with derivatives and open her at the same time. Win-win. Your preconception of "alpha" as "guy who never asks for help" is a strawman.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/14 04:57 PM
5

Well, gorillas have harems, so...
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/14 04:34 AM
1

Er.. Granted - I got carried away there. Let's say my issue isn't with the distribution of responsibilities (which is inherently asymmetrical and won't be entirely satisfactory to either side) - but with the lack of male choice (except for ponying up support) once conception takes place.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/14 03:36 AM
1

Thank you, also, for clarifying for me. The old tradcon ethos makes sense (like most old, "patriarchal" ways of doing things) if you consider it from the perspective of a "survival" versus a "fulfillment" based cultural system. Control of sexuality and reproduction is very important in survival-based societies because the future of the group/tribe hinges on such decisions.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/14 02:48 PM
1

Well, the type of people who would make that argument are traditional conservatives - and under the tradcon ethic, if an unmarried man & woman have sex, and she gets pregnant, they are socially obligated to get married and raise the kid. This seems to me a very equitable state of affairs wrt the rights and obligations of both parties (even if it chafes against progressive values). So I guess I'd say I wouldn't support going back to the tradcon ethic, but what we have now isn't a balanced system …
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/14 02:02 PM
1

Not what I'm saying - In four states, only the mother may relinquish - the father can't (but if he wants the child, I'm sure he'll get it). And only five states have laws that actively ensure the father is compliant with the decision (if he wasn't involved in the relinquishment - which are anonymous). And the original point of this discussion is getting lost - which in total, women have more choices, more opportunities to abdicate parenthood, then men do. Men have more responsibilities (ie. the …
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/14 01:53 PM
1

In four states, only the mother may relinquish. In five states records are checked for the father... And it's worth noting that safe haven laws weren't enacted because an epidemic of men were killing or harming their children. I think we both know what the gov'ts attitudes towards that would be.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/14 06:23 AM
0

Well, let's enumerate the rights & responsibilities by gender, viz a viz reproduction (not the what people say about people having those rights): Equal right to birth control - more of less gender equal. Condoms & foam have efficacy about equal to the pill, which a man can demand Right to an abortion (with some caveats admittedly) for women. For men: right to try and persuade woman to have an abortion Right to give child up for adoption for women For men: right to try to persuade woman to give u…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/14 03:33 AM
18

Actually, ROK is click-bait for easily offended feminists ;) ...and, I certainly don't agree with all (perhaps even most) of what they post there, but there is occasionally some worthwhile and insightful articles there. (Edit:) Let's understand the strategy here: the offensive, "unfiltered id" posts are just attention grabbers, in much the same way avoiceformen had some of the same stuff.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/14 09:20 PM
1

Seems about right to me.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/14 06:29 PM
3

Tangential point: as I understand it, the lion's share of human trafficking (worldwide) is male labour, not female prostitution.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/14 06:28 PM
1

I've never pursued short-term mating, so I will own my ignorance on the matter in terms of experience/empiricism.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/14 03:28 PM
3

Because normalization of monogamy somewhat enforces assortative mating. So hypergamy is directed towards men closer to "their level" in terms of overall attractiveness.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/14 03:26 PM
1

I hope probability doesn't catch up with you - but it's also not just about you, everyone should be aware of what the stakes are in any given short-term encounter.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/14 02:48 PM
2

Good post - really committed to understanding both sides of the argument and moving forward with productive conversation. That said, I think the best strategy for avoiding LMR is the actually take the time to establish an emotional rapport before jumping into bed. But I'm reactionary that way... A wacky hypothesis: LMR exists not just because of sluttiness, but because short-term, just-met-the-guy mating feels uncomfortable because there's no signalling of the intent to express paternal investme…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/14 02:21 PM
3

It's really not hard to tell the difference between a 'no' that's just for show and a 'no' that's serious. Maybe not for you. A court, or nowadays, a college tribunal, might have more difficulty. Hell, for a college tribunal (or the authors of college sex pamphlets) "yes" doesn't even mean "yes" anymore...
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/14 02:02 PM
3

You've successfully missed the point - which was middle- to low-status men have every possible reason to fear the normalization of polyamory (which is really polygyny)
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/14 01:17 PM
7

What does monogamy actually do though to make society better? Assortative mating. You want low-status men to produce more than they consume, they'll need a reason to do that. Gender equality hasn't yet reached the triple-D professions.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/05/14 02:23 AM
3

I don't see how it being used as a strategy to fuck some other guy on his dime strengthens your point...
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/14 09:47 PM
6

Who cares? Look, if there was an economically successful/culturally progressive polygynous society, we can point to that and say "what did they do to make it work?" The fact that such societies don't exist is enough evidence to say with reasonable certainty that monogamy is a foundational feature of economically successful/culturally progressive societies, even if we don't understand the full causal factors that make this so. The onus is on anti-monogamy people to show how it's supposed to look …
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/14 09:34 PM
5

Does it give credence to the idea that we're driven toward monogamy? I think the aggregate evidence is that we're driven toward monogamy with optional, opportunistic extra-pair sexual encounters. When we're seeing here is a woman pursuing this strategy, and normalizing it as polyamory. The question I have - the point - is to consider the knock-on effects outside of the lives of the people directly involved (children & the culture at large) of normalizing these alternative mating arrangements.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/14 08:43 PM
8

You're trying to make this emotional. No - I'm trying to point out there's more at stake then the sex lives of adults when we consider alternative relationship models. It just seems suspicious to base an entire opinion or argument about open relationships on one guys story when there are many more stories about it working out. Sure - but when you evaluate the potential effects on people's lives, you want to consider the worst-case failures.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/14 08:39 PM
2

I'm sure their children will spend much time on that counterfactual...
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/14 06:43 PM
12

Where are the polygynous modern societies? Mostly sub-Saharan Africa, the middle-east, and certain cloisters of Mormons. In other words, places that mostly suck. More discussion of this here
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/14 05:55 PM
4

Fear
/r/PurplePillDebate08/05/14 05:50 PM
1

What I think you're saying is the "natural" male strategy towards dealing with conflict is maladaptive in modern times, and the female's isn't (if correctly deployed). I tend to agree.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/05/14 04:54 PM
1

We do play around with SM, but it's more the exception than the rule. And it's not related to agency or transactionalism. Sorry to be annoying, but I want to be clear: BDSM is adorning sex with the trappings of externalized power. The way I experience it, sex is power.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/14 08:49 PM
1

Er - not to universalize my experience or anything - but the experience of sex for me is very intertwined with power exchange & ownership.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/14 07:00 PM
2

I'm sociosexually restricted like yourself, and my experience with pill-swallowing was that it made sex both more frequent and more enjoyable - because sex isn't really an egalitarian exercise and I embraced that instead of being shamed by it.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/05/14 02:09 AM
2

Other people in this thread had stuff to offer which I agreed with, and I have a personal rule about my points intersecting other people's as little as possible, so...
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/14 09:50 PM
3

Women have a shadow side, but it's different in quality than the male shadow side. The male shadow side is very direct and overt - violent and domineering. A man's strength is in his muscles and a deep, booming voice. The female shadow side is covert - manipulative & deceitful. Notice how, in your example, Stiviano recorded Sterling in secret. A woman's strength is in her ability to recruit others and act through proxies. The absolute best, proven way to do this is to wear the mantle of victimho…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/14 07:41 PM
2

PS: A proper example of Black Knighting is here Black Knighting is (IMO) meant to strike at a corrupt & misandrous system, not individuals.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/14 07:14 PM
5

Preferable to being the 50-60 year old lonely divorcee who shelled out child support for kids he never got to see or raise...
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/14 07:03 PM
3

I agree - as with all "gendered" behaviour, it's not an absolute, but a likelihood.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/14 07:01 PM
1

This seems to me like really light-weight, passive-aggressive crap that only works on people who are already horribly insecure. If my daughters react to this type of thing with a shrug and get on with life as normal, I would consider that a small sign that I did OK as a dad.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/14 06:45 PM
1

Evo psych is just the assertion that the human brain is a product of evolution. This is so obvious as to be trivial, but the implications - what it means for the brain to be a product of evolution - is going to prove to be hugely controversial and fraught with ideological baggage. Evo psych is obviously a valid subject for research, but it's a) a new field and b) takes as it's subject the most complicated thing in the universe. So... ya. It's plagued by shoddy research, over-reaching conclusions…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/14 05:56 PM
9

I cut the umbilical cord of both my children when they were born. It is a tough mass of fibres and even though I was using surgical-grade scissors it takes quite a bit of hacking and sawing to get through, and it bleeds a little. My wife and my kids used to be the same person. My severing of their physical connection is just the beginning of my job, which is to be the most important person in their lives who wasn't once them, and slowly separate them out from the warm bath of maternal love & aff…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/04/14 05:47 PM
3

Assault laws. If you cut off the foreskin of an adult while he screamed helplessly you would be charged.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/14 09:22 PM
5

In a normative, common-law sense, a permanent, involuntary transgression of bodily autonomy like circumcision is a violation of rights. You're not infringing on the babies religious freedom because the baby doesn't have the wherewithal to consciously adopt a religion. The baby's right to an intact penis trumps the parents' right to impose their religious practice on the baby.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/14 06:24 PM
7

Religious and medical freedom would consist of adults who voluntarily had the operation performed. Performing it on babies isn't freedom - the babies' rights are being violated.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/04/14 05:46 PM
4

Raising kids on a single income isn't that hard - if you're willing to make the necessary sacrifices and you can change your mindset a little - you need to let go of status anxiety. You're not going to be able to "keep up with the Jones'" as effectively. I mean, once you do the math of including the costs of daycare & other extra expenses it's usually a wash either way, financially, during the early years.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/04/14 05:08 PM
6

Watch this please - from about 12:00 in. Subjectively, for me and my SO, it's exactly right. Further to that, what's partially driving parental unhappiness in the modern era is that most people follow a "double-breadwinner" family structure, instead of a "breadwinner/caretaker" structure, which is just really really dumb.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/04/14 04:26 PM
2

It's a likelihood thing. Sure - some intelligent people occasionally want to cut back and do shallow shit cause their overheated brains need to cool down or whatever lol. But most of the people who are in clubs are there because it's what they like to do most - which is try to talk over loud music, dance and look good.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/04/14 03:10 PM
1

Oh, I think the stats on IQ and gender are reasonably clear. Men have more variability and a slightly higher average. Which means it's slightly easier to select for (and find) male nerds then female nerds, but certainly possible to select for (and find) female nerds. I mostly hang out with nerds at meetups and stuff, and it's basically true - we get the occasional woman who's interested in that stuff, but it's a majority men. Don't particularly want it that way - it just seems to be the way it i…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/04/14 03:07 PM
2

I think that's a fair comparison (although I don't think any TRPer would mutter "misogyny isn't real) - and there's a definite surface similarity between the feminist "click" moment and the red pill rhetoric (in TRP and the MRA) but there is a difference: TRP encourages self-ownership (which is the embracing of lifting, game, etc.) whereas radfems want the system to change to meet their ideological ends. I "self-improvement & adaptation" test I mentioned elsewhere can be applied to feminists - s…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/14 10:26 PM
5

Nope - one significant factor among many.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/14 10:22 PM
10

Well, yes, but there's a lot of selection bias going around. You exhibited selection in choosing intelligent female friends, and then hypothesizing if all the female in the club (besides your friends) also were intelligent but just talking about shallow stuff because they were drunk and in the club. (Excuse me if I'm straw-manning you here, you didn't explicitly state this) No, I think most women are shallow and like talking about shallow things, which is why they like going to clubs. This isn't…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/14 08:03 PM
1

at some point the promised social skills are supposed to appear. Well, the difference can be told - if seasoned TRP members are the ones endlessly complaining about hypergamy or whatever, then, no, it's not working. If newbies are the ones doing that - then null result. If you track members for some time and see the tone of the posts going from "bitter" to "I AM ALPHA AND SO CAN YOU RAWR" then it's working. I personally don't track who's writing what posts to say which is the case. I will say I'…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/14 07:51 PM
6

So it is justifiable to say the sort of things said on TRP because feelings are hurt? Depends - if it genuinely helps work out their issues and carve out a better future for themselves, yup, it's justified. If it's just endless bitter complaining used as an excuse the avoid the work of real personal change, then no, obviously not. If you're personally offended, that's fine. I sympathize, but no one's forcing you to read TRP.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/14 07:43 PM
2

Without getting too sidetracked into a discussion about Elam (since the point was that 'charismatic social leader' is a matter of context) (also: consider this response to all concerns about Elam, alifib2 was just first in my reply queue) Farrell wrote the Myth of Male Power over 20 years, and was politely trying to bring attention to male issues in that entire time. But the MRM is only a talked about "thing" now, after Elam said some nasty stuff. I don't think that's a coincidence.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/14 07:34 PM
1

There's a nice little post one TRP here which talks a bit about this: When the reprogramming of the Lace Curtain program begins, the man must compensate with what, on the surface, sounds like woman bashing. The 'woman bashing' is not actually woman bashing, but his only release of the pain as his mind sinks through the terrible hell of being reprogrammed. The phenomenon of Men's Rights websites has most of them in this process. You will find lengthy essays and some harsh tones. Women will view i…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/14 06:13 PM
1

I never once, in the course of this thread, used the word "proof". Accurately represent my statements, please. (I seem to be saying this a lot lately)
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/14 06:00 PM
6

If you were a man, do you really think it would be easier to do what you needed to to become an elite in any field and make a lasting contribution? Don't get confused by the fact that most elites are male - they only account for a very tiny percentage of the population either way - the apex fallacy works both ways. You know what elite men and elite women have in common? They were smart and they did the work.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/14 04:24 PM
1

You can want what you like. You're confusing having a discussion with making demands, so namaste.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/04/14 04:16 PM
1

Good question, thanks. There's various ways to break it down - you pointed out marrage/age stats - and the stats there (IIRC) show that men tend to marry slightly - but not ridiculously, younger women (like in the 1-5 year diff. range). Which is true! Marrying a slighty older man satisfices female hypergamy and marrying a slightly younger women satisfices male desire for fertility. another way to look at it is what men tend to fantasize about. The book A Billion Wicked Thoughts does this by stat…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/14 07:36 PM
1

Yup, here it is: RP is a statistical theory, which means statements are constrained to "men tend to..." & "women tend to..." Outliers exist.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/14 06:30 PM
2

I don't know that - RPs could be wearing the "mask" of the psychopathic bad boy.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/14 06:29 PM
2

You don't think the women he dates project his "actor self" onto his "real self"? I don't know why he dates women in the age range he does. Funny how TRP can cite hundreds of examples and it's "confirmation bias" - but one counter-example is "Ha! See!"
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/14 05:03 AM
2

D'you think maybe Clooney is a serial dater because his real self just can't live up to his "actor self"? Hypergamy's a bitch, I guess... ;)
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/14 04:29 AM
2

I don't think you want to use George Clooney as an exemplar of how TRP is wrong about everything. Practically every role he's ever played in TV & movies is an example of "amused mastery"
/r/PurplePillDebate26/04/14 04:26 AM
5

No problem. To break it down into communication-friendly bite-sized chunks: On an individual level we are all responsible for the people in our lives. If an individual woman rewards psychopathic bad-boys with sex because tingles, she'll get psychopathic badboys in her life! If she dates & has sex with nice guys, she'll get nice guys. Simple. Bad boys tend to be mentally damaged, and incapable of any kind of emotional attachment - so they have their own set of problems. On an aggregate level, man…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/14 10:57 PM
8

But how are only women to blame for this? The word I used was "accountable" not "blame" - and I never used the word "only". We can't even start to have a meaningful discussion until you're going to represent my statements accurately.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/14 10:17 PM
9

Yes, this is exactly it. In other words, women are to be held accountable for their actions. If you follow your back-brain into fucking a string of psychopathic badboys, guess what? You don't get access to good men later for a relationship.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/04/14 09:47 PM
2

bitter (adjective) - (of people or their feelings or behavior) angry, hurt, or resentful because of one's bad experiences or a sense of unjust treatment. I'm wondering - why the (implicit) criticism of a valid emotional response?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/04/14 08:50 PM
6

Ok, but "that idea is stupid" isn't an argument. You haven't presented any reason for me to think that a "sexual strategy" is a stupid idea.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/14 05:53 PM
9

If I'm stupid, why are you engaging me??
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/14 04:47 PM
7

People can act however they want. If you have a goal (be perceived as attractive, lose fat, build muscle, start a company, whatever) then there are ways of acting that will make those goals attainable. There's no normativity. It's "sexual strategy"
/r/PurplePillDebate22/04/14 04:13 PM
3

Well, my wife is going to start a business...
/r/PurplePillDebate21/04/14 05:03 PM
1

Also on this subject, I saw Rio 2 with my kids the other day, then watched this review - it's basically spot-on.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/14 04:05 PM
2

That comic is satire - which means it's both funny and unfair. (That is - Black Widow was portrayed as highly competent and intelligent, Joss Whedon is known for writing good, fully flushed out female characters, and she never once did that move in the Avengers to my memory) The other thing is - you could basically redraw that comic with Hawkeye in his super-short sleeves highlighting his biceps & deltoids. But, ya, one issue of that low-status men and unpretty women are basically invisible to t…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/14 04:03 PM
6

No, I don't - outside of curiosity. Because I don't think there are "pros" or "cons" but trade-offs. Women are intrinsically valued for their beauty, which seems like a pro, but many women don't see it as a pro, are uncomfortable with it, and just find it gets in the way of being valued for what you do. Men are valued for their accomplishments, but a lot of men just see this as increased pressure to perform, pay, pursue (h/t Warren Farrell) , be stoic, and so there's an "empathy gap" in apprecia…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/14 03:55 PM
1

Probably as much to do with it being evening before a long weekend and me being slightly drunk when I composed it. Not undermines the credibility of women generally, but undermines the credibility of the "boyfriend" claim. I mean, if responding to the "boyfriend" thing with a neg never worked, it wouldn't be a recommended course of action in PUA - implying that at least some of the time, it's just a fitness test. Sometimes, it's a genuine attempt by a woman to get a guy she's not interested in t…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/14 06:00 AM
1

Hope you don't mind if I fisk through some details: Of course I'm a lefty moonbat, so paternity leave is something that's politically important to me. I'm a righty meany, and it's important to me to - that is, from first hand experience, I basically know for a fact that fatherhood is seriously undervalued in the current culture. I mean, maternity leave is vital due to maternal attachment & breast-feeding being so important to mental & physical health (I'm glad I live in a country that takes this…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/04/14 02:00 PM
2

Hm... On a tangent: In the same way fake rape accusations ("false" accusation could be mistaken identity, so say a "fake" accusation is when a rape never took place) would be enabling rapists by undermining the credibility of actual victims, Is it fair to say the "fake boyfriend" shield undermines the credibility of all women and enables cheaters? (Disregarding the wide moral gulf between rape and infidelity, of course) I welcome your enraged downvotes. Just askin'.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/04/14 04:00 AM
4

Can you expand on this a bit? The feel of TPR that I get is that its "every man for himself" and not very in the spirit of a code of conduct between males. What looks like "every man for himself" to people more used to... progressive/co-operative modes of thought is actually men competing for status. TRP is at least partially an acknowledgment that this is how it is among men. (There are TRPers who think sleeping with other men's wives, for example, is OK and others who think this is dishonourab…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/04/14 03:52 AM
10

Short answer: etymology. Honour was the name for the codes of conduct that men from the same in-group had for dealing with each other in the competition for alpha spots in the male hierarchy. It didn't apply to women because women didn't (by and large) compete in male hierarchies. Women (historically, and still to a large extent still) have their own social modes of conduct, which are based on consensus, and a "crab-basket" mode of status-seeking (this is not just me talking out my ass - the "cr…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/04/14 11:24 PM
9

The lifecycle of a TRP looks like this (roughly, MMV) thirsty for sex -> self-improvment -> getting sex -> disillusioned with easy sex From there, it branches off into finding an LTR or learning to cope with the alienation of spinning plates. The future of the whole thing (I hope) is a renegotiated "social contract" and a continuance of the progressivism with some meaningful course corrections (which make some concessions to Reality)
/r/PurplePillDebate17/04/14 05:40 PM
1

Don't feel bad - we know sapiosexuals are a thing ;)
/r/PurplePillDebate17/04/14 05:36 PM
2

It should also be noted many parts of Asia have a quite serious male/female population imbalance. (Which will surely weight towards the "beta bux" side of the equation)
/r/PurplePillDebate17/04/14 05:34 PM
1

Yes - another salient example is Muslim countries, where polygamy is normalized. (And suicide bombers are, coincidentally, low-status men who are promised virgins in the afterlife) I mean, you can't stop people from entering into voluntary polyamorous relationships, nor should we try. But I don't think they should be culturally or legally normalized.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/04/14 02:15 PM
7

If neuroscientists are famous...they get the girls. If rock stars and serial killers are famous, women go in that direction. I'm... not sure that this is an accurate description of what drives female sexuality. I mean, I can't think of a time when brainy guys were considered sexier than adventurous guys. Around the enlightenment, brainier guys were considered high-status, but there's no evidence they were considered sexier. Going after aspiring musicians & artists (and serial killers) is a high-…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/04/14 02:07 PM
1

I'm bound to the father in a way more unbreakable than a marriage covenant Yes, thanks - excellent way of putting it. That being said, the "no fault" is good for avoiding a mess, dragged out legal mud sling. Some people really are better separated than together- and that's also a lesson kids need to know, as cliche as it is. Hm. No-fault did have the desirable effect of getting the gov't out of our bedrooms, and gave people some basic self-determination in getting out of relationships they didn'…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/04/14 01:54 PM
1

Even disregarding the truly awful aspects of polygamy (which we shouldn't, but if we did) - I would still be against legal polyamory on the basis that it would completely shut out low status men from the mating market (this is a simple matter of human nature + math - if high status men get multiple women, there aren't enough women to go around - yes this is an awfully cynical way of looking at it - but it's basically true). Simple human compassion dictates this is already a net negative, but it …
/r/PurplePillDebate17/04/14 01:33 PM
2

Allowed to get no fault divorce if he feels this marriage is no longer meeting his needs? Sure! I'd like to dive into this - 'cause it's true, but at the same time, more complicated. In a relationship of 2 people - no problem! In a relationship of 2 people with kids - problem! A person has to now weight their sex life against a divorce (let's assume a best-case mediated without involvement of courts) which causes a drop in standard of living for both partners, has all kinds of correlated negativ…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/04/14 09:23 PM
1

When I see how the people in TRP talk it tells me they have very negative outlooks on life 100% true - by way of explaining, not excusing, this tendency, having a failing dating life and not being able to connect with women just feels really really bad and depressing, and men in particular often become angry in these situations. (Also - TRP's rhetoric lately seems to be softening) As to the rest - all of that is fine. The thing about TRP/manosphere/MMSL is the most important component is aspirat…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/04/14 08:25 PM
18

It's like how many women just can't be with a guy who's shorter than her. There's no rational explanation, it's just a deep-rooted feeling.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/04/14 07:07 PM
1

No sarcasm intended - I know it's a little weird on the internet, but I am committed to some minimum standard of intellectual honesty ;)
/r/PurplePillDebate16/04/14 04:38 PM
2

There would have to be a lot of trust. Not to belabour a point, but if there was a surfeit of trust in the world, we wouldn't need contract law to begin with ;) I do think that a big part of the wage/performance gap simply has to do with comfort and expectation of dependency. If you do away with that completely, perhaps things really would start to level out. Maybe not completely, but more so than they are now. I think that's an interesting point, but my experience causes me to disagree with it.…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/04/14 02:01 PM
2

Between two people, gender non-specific (sorry, polyamorists, but I have yet to be convinced that wide-spread adoption won't be a net negative to society) Divorce as a legal mechanism in place, but somewhat socially censured when children are involved, considered by society to be an option of last resort - would like to see some cultural honesty with it's true effect on standard of living for both partners Presumption of shared custody Presumption of equal division of assets, with temporary alim…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/04/14 01:52 PM
2

It's kind of hard to imagine why a women would agree to have a child with a man without some form of obligation on his part in terms of his continued investment in the well-being of the child (unless you're willing to make the argument that state-sponsored motherhood is the answer). It seems to me, at a bare minimum, you need to invoke contract law to define the responsibilities and obligations wrt children.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/04/14 01:41 PM
3

Applause lights
/r/PurplePillDebate16/04/14 01:34 PM
1

OK - sorry for strawmanning your views.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/04/14 01:31 PM
1

I like being alpha and masculine in certain contexts because it makes me happy and self-actualized. But I fully support breaking gender roles if that's what makes someone else happy and self-actualized. You, IMO, are making the classic feminist error of breaking gender roles when it suits you, and enforcing them when it suits you. "No man can tell me what to do, now get up there and fix my roof for me!" Just because people did not get divorced does not mean they were happy. Many women stayed in …
/r/PurplePillDebate15/04/14 03:43 PM
1

Ya, I think that's fine. I think there's reasons we won't see strict gender parity, but more than what we have know, sure. As for the preference for women, do you have a source I could take a look at? To be honest, I don't - I didn't think it was a contentious statement. But nothing that's not behind a paywall
/r/PurplePillDebate15/04/14 03:38 PM
3

Cosigned. (With the caveat that that's a maybe somewhat idealized account of what 3rd wave feminism stands for ;)
/r/PurplePillDebate15/04/14 03:25 PM
5

It really just seems like you don't care how women get the short end of the stick, as long as men are happy. This is very much not my contention. No amount of biotruths will make me think otherwise. FTFY. OK, sorry, that was snarky. But too good to resist ;) Look, there may have been some minority of men & women who were dissatisfied with old-style relationship models, but at some level we have to accept the reality that those models worked in a "survival culture" sense, and give some credit to …
/r/PurplePillDebate15/04/14 03:23 PM
5

Default explanation for why a wife treats her husband poorly: "He's not trying hard enough!"
/r/PurplePillDebate15/04/14 03:06 PM
6

Women do use dread on men - a) by "cutting off" intimacy in order to ensure his compliance, and b) in the form of ever-present threat of divorce - in fact, arguably, no-fault divorce reforms can be characterized as the state running dread on men in the aggregate. Gee, why are men attracted to sites like Heartiste, where women are kept at arm's length emotionally and manipulated into compliance? It's a mystery...
/r/PurplePillDebate15/04/14 03:03 PM
1

First off, do you think women will never cheat? I have no illusions about women in general, but I trust my wife not to cheat, ya. Second, if they do, will you break up with them or confront them if you find out somehow (without her knowledge or admission) or because of suspicions/gut feel? Fuck yes to confrontation. Break up is a more... complicated question. Disentangling our shared lives is no small proposition. Third, what is an acceptable level of cheating for you? One time single sexual enc…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/04/14 02:52 PM
2

The problem is in practical application - how do you get more women to run? (This really is the problem - voters have shown they will even express a slight preference for voting for a woman)
/r/PurplePillDebate15/04/14 02:43 PM
4

They were women... Unhappy with your basic blueprint of marriage. This happened not because every woman before 2nd-wave feminism was oppressed by the men closest to her (her husband, father, brothers) - this is "feminist fairy-tale history." This happened because women lost a sense of fulfillment in the domestic sphere when it became mostly automated, and "head of household" became just "housewife." IOW, the Male dom/female sub dynamic worked very very well for a long time, before the very uniqu…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/04/14 02:39 PM
2

No - from what I've seen (second-hand) of the dating world, it is insanely combative. Speaking generally, we seem to be living in an age of narcissism where people have no clue how to form emotionally connected relationships, and people date seemingly with the sole aim of bonking genitals together. The guys (and some girls) I know who are dating are willing to make trade-offs, but past a certain age, it's really tough, because all the good people are in stable marriages, and what you've got left…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/04/14 03:36 PM
1

I think there might be a case that Canadian universities take freedom of expression more seriously than American ones do. This'll sound somewhat paranoid, but I think the American Cathedral is taking it's time in giving MRA's a voice because they're figuring out how to absorb them into the system and make them work for it.
/r/TheRedPill13/04/14 03:20 PM
8

I think it's the opposite - I live in Ontario, and a politicized men's advocacy movement is increasingly being seen as a reasonable thing to want. Yes, there's crazy feminists around, but note that UofT, Queen's and UofOttawa were committed to academic freedom and speech, and that's why they gave Farrell, Fiamengo, Groth, etc. a platform on campus. Also note that the MIAS de-ratification was struck down at Queen's. Further, I just saw this - an interview on a local MSM radio station with a membe…
/r/TheRedPill12/04/14 03:50 PM
1

My first loyalty is to rationality & empiricism. My second loyalty is to empathy & connectedness. All my principles - fatherhood & husbandhood, atheism, freedom feminism, MHRA, &etc - flow from these.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/14 02:29 PM
1

Based on self-monitoring, when I become "intimacy starved" I tend to be moody, and by turns sad/depressed or angry. But it's not so straightforward as my brain saying "we haven't had sex in a while so be sad/angry" - I become more responsive to things in the environment which I can normally handle. So my rationalization hamster is saying "I'm mad because I can't get past this videogame boss!" when it's actually I just haven't gotten laid lately.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/04/14 02:16 PM
9

I had my own set of feels wrt to the whole TRP revelation thing, but anger wasn't one of them. But I empathize and identify strongly with guys who are angry. Let me offer you a narrative using your example: You need your oil changed, and you'd like to get a man to do it. Just personal preference on your part! You could do it yourself, but that just isn't very satisfying. You can't hire a man to change your oil for you, because that's strongly socially censured and illegal - and one of the penalt…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/04/14 01:36 PM
2

No, it's possible. It's also possible for men to change. Contrary to popular opinion, the purpose of "Schedules of Mating"-type arguments aren't to shame women's behaviour, it's to arm men with necessary perspectives to make optimal choices for themselves. It's fine for a women to settle with (not for) a more beta-ish guy, as long as there's attraction and a strong sexual bond, and everything is above-board about her history and there's no strong alpha-windowhood going on. It's also fine for men…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/04/14 01:17 PM
2

Strangely enough, my SO is cool with mistress or paramour (and other... less honourable names when the occasion presents itself) but is not really cool with "wife" I mean, it's kind of a private joke - I introduce her to people as much wife and stuff - but at home she objects - doesn't want to be a wife. (Not a radfem or anything) There's pretty clear demarcations around "wife" and "mistress" & "prostitute" & "stripper" because of the legal & cultural or professional implications. I... don't kno…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/14 08:42 PM
1

You also imply whoever she's dating now isn't as attractive as who she dated in the past. I could also understand dating "an" asshole based on your narrative, but dating many assholes is a pattern of behaviour and I would want to know about that.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/14 03:58 PM
2

You're free to filter however you like, of course, but IMO filtering based solely on attraction is inadvisable. It's only one facet of relationship compatibility. I "dated" assholes may not be a deal-breaker, but I'd sure as hell want to know why she dated assholes and what's changed since then.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/14 02:47 PM
6

Everyone in this thread is projecting something onto her. I'm just being less charitable. To be pointed, as a beta-male father type, I'm uninterested in being Captain Save-a-ho. Maybe other beta-male father types feel likewise.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/14 02:33 PM
4

There was no dishonesty implied by my post. In fact, "I never would've dated you when I was 25" is an extremely honest statement (if probably delivered in the heat of an argument). Does your explanation make filtering this woman out any less reasonable than mine does?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/14 02:32 PM
14

"I would never have have dated you when I was 25" = "I dated much hotter guys then you when I was 25, but couldn't lock one down, and now you're plan B. Or C. Or D. Or..." This is the absolutely biggest, most nasty red flag you can wave in front of a guy - maybe he's an insensitive douche or whatever but he's bang on correct to pop the chute on the relationship.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/14 02:23 AM
1

Thank you very much! And a really good memory. Because hey, Aspergers ain't all bad. No, not it's not.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/04/14 08:54 PM
2

Since Warren Farrell did his role-reversal experiment in the 1970's, a minority of women have embraced the pursuer role - and this is good! In fact, I've benefitted personally since my first gf was the initiator/escalator. But I don't expect to achieve "outcome equality" here - the pull of biology is still present (I submit). Still, I think there's a lot of wisdom & empathy to be gained from roll-reversal experiments like this.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/04/14 07:33 PM
1

For a really good portrayal of this dynamic, see the 1971 movie "Carnal Knowledge" (which was also recommended by therawness)
/r/PurplePillDebate08/04/14 07:25 PM
1

Thanks very much - highly interesting and sounds like another group I know of I would suggest teaching your daughters to know when to throw a punch and when to run away. It's the only way I got through public school as a girl with Aspergers syndrome. :P I'll.. take that under consideration - either I let something slip and you have a good memory, or you're psychic (or coincidence or statistical overlap)
/r/PurplePillDebate08/04/14 07:20 PM
2

I'm just going to leave this here
/r/PurplePillDebate08/04/14 07:13 PM
1

For clarity - people can mutually, consensually, "use" each other and still lack connectedness and all the other stuff I mentioned - I'm not really addressing consent here (although it's important obviously) but more offering a critique on what sex is supposed to mean. You've got me curious - what type of men are in the social milieu you mentioned? If you can generalize... (my interest is purely academic ;) Re: sex-pos, I'm not trying to point fingers - I think sex-positivity had noble motivatio…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/04/14 01:58 PM
1

Please don't mistake my reactionary tendencies on this matter for idealism about how the SMP/MMP used to work! I very much appreciate the trade-offs that were made, and fully realize the old ways of courtship simply could not survive the invention of effective birth control (and other cultural changes). My problem with the modern SMP is, no matter how much sex-positivity or non-transactionalism or ethical sluttery or whatever progressive spin is put on it, short-term mating strategies are (IMO) …
/r/PurplePillDebate07/04/14 08:48 PM
1

How so? Ever since Mary Wollstonecraft, feminism was about increasing women's capacity to exercise formal power. (The was phrase in terms of "rights" - but peel back the word "rights" and what you find is "a person's capacity to exercise power within the constraints of the state"). This is a reasonable proposition, if women are systematically disenfranchised from being able to increase their formal power (undoubtedly the case), and they are willing to make negotiated concessions of informal powe…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/14 11:36 PM
2

an RP guy happened a long time ago RP didn't exist a long time ago.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/14 08:58 PM
2

Lesbian divorce rates would have to be above that of heterosexual couples. My comment was at least partially facetious, but I'll defend it anyway for fun :D It enough for me that a) 70% of divorces are initiated by women and b) male homosexual couples don't divorce as often that women will pop a chute if they start to feel like they've "married down" to assert that hypergamy is a thing, and lesbians are subject to it. Your logic (that two women would increase odds of divorce) is suspect - in any…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/14 08:56 PM
1

Because you can't have a civilization in which men have no meaningful contact with women, nor one in which short-term mating strategies dominate.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/14 08:48 PM
1

I just think there are a lot of bad ideas packaged in TRP. there is a desire for things that look, act and sound slutty while trying to make the conditions under which they come about inherently unpleasant Well, if slutty women were having sex with men based on virtue the I imagine TRP would be advocating virtue as a sexual strategy. I will admit this - there is a male version of alpha fux/beta bux in terms of the madonna/whore thing - just like women, men are pulled in two opposing directions b…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/14 08:45 PM
6

This is why MRAs and MGTOWs mostly hate and want to distance themselves from RP/PUA (although they share the "red pill" paradigm but it means different stuff). Personally, I think it's all part of the same conversation/negotiation between men & women around sexuality & rights. Basically, men & women depend on each other, but there are cracks showing in old dependencies, and we're starting to need each other in different ways. Basically, feminism has become a gigantic, society-wide shit-test and …
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/14 04:38 PM
2

Hypergamy transcends sexual orientation!
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/14 04:28 PM
5

It's a little rich to claim women in any sense "don't have choices" in today world (in the West) - women can choose to pursue higher education, can choose to pursue a career, can choose to get married at any point along that trajectory, can choose how and when to have children. RP wants to express a preference about one of those choices (# of partners) and everyone acts like we're trying to chain women to a stove or something. Feminism has brought about an absolute hypervigilance about anyone an…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/14 04:13 PM
0

There's a lot of this "RP is inconsistent in their attitude towards women" stuff bandied about. Is it true? Well, Roosh himself has said (I'll try to dig up the citation on request) that he would've preferred the old patriarchal life of settling down with a "good woman" but that wasn't an option. So, a charitable reading is that RP guys are making the best of a bad situation - spinning plates and fucking women you don't really care about it just a distant second to the married life they don't fe…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/14 03:57 PM
3

Sorry, I have to ask: are the slutty women making the money and having the babies?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/14 03:49 PM
4

No claims to meeting scientific criteria are being made. The mantle of science is not to be used as an excuse not to look at the world. I think RP beliefs should be explored by science, but good luck getting funding.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/04/14 07:14 PM
7

Or that the awkward teenager virgin matured mentally and gathered more life experience. The problem with empirical observation from few data points is that you can't adjust for other variables. I've interacted or read guys on the internet who are in their 30's or 40's and used game in their marriage, or guys in their 50's who used game to improve their dating life. Look, this doesn't work. You're operating under the fantasy that we can't apply critical thinking. If that's true nothing you say wi…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/04/14 04:38 PM
9

Simple empiricism. If your dating life is a failure before TRP, and a success after TRP, the reasonable conclusion is TRP works. Humans made many fine things our of matter before they understood the atomic theory. Why do we need to understand the mind to make simple observations about behaviour?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/04/14 05:41 AM
3

Certainly. Marriage IMO needs to be re-valorized culturally and fixed legally, but the central idea of marriage is still moral, pro-civilization and good for adults and the children they bring into the world. The story linked to is about two people in a narcissist/co-dependant relationship - yes it's fucked up but marriage neither fixes nor harms the participants. The fact that psychologically damaged people get married is no criticism of marriage itself.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/04/14 05:08 PM
2

My wife and I are both non-believers, and when we wrote our vows, we specifically didn't mention anything about a timeframe. Legally, we were already common-law spouses, so the marriage was largely ceremony and an excuse to throw a party, and the way we saw it, there's just too many variables in life to make promises about "forever." Ironically, it does look like we're going to "go the distance."
/r/PurplePillDebate04/04/14 05:00 PM
1

There is some credence to the idea that men & women love differently, but they certainly both love. In fact, both assertions are expected given human mating & gender dimorphism. OP, I hate to sound sacchrine, but the way to understand how women love is to accept the love of a women. When you allow yourself to be vulnerable to her, she will react in a way that either leaves you feeling warm & fuzzy or will make you immediately start rebuilding the wall. And that'll be your answer.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/04/14 06:11 AM
5

Stands to reason, as social status (probably) has a lot to do with mating opportunities.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/14 06:35 PM
12

Unpacking: Officially, in common majority progressive thought, women have their own status/rank related to career choice, earning potential, etc. which is roughly consistent with male status/rank. In short-term mating, none of that matters. Attractiveness (for males, short-term, ie. sexiness) is basically conforming to preferred body shapes (waist-to-hip ratios - somewhat varied in different cultures but roughly conforming to common constraints) and outward markers of fitness - clear skin, shiny…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/14 04:15 PM
1

In her 1973 novel, Erica Jung introduced the concept of the "zipless fuck" - referring to an aspirational sexual act without any emotional or spiritual content. Third wave sex-positive feminism has taken the idea of the "zipless fuck" as a kind of benchmark to measure how "equal" men & women are in the sexual arena - if women, by and large, can enjoy ONS's without attachment or emotional content, equality has been achieved! The problem is, it's built on a lie. The "zipless fuck" doesn't exist, s…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/03/14 06:26 AM
2

If I were a woman, and wanted an LTR: "I don't do casual." Stated upfront. Scare the players and serial monogamists off.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/03/14 05:17 PM
2

The local slang for lack of sex being an over-riding concern in life is the term "thirsty" - which seems pretty apt. If you live in an OECD country, tap water is everywhere, so thirst isn't such a big deal. Hell, we pay for bottled water at the store because tap water just ain't good enough. In, say, a small poor village in sub-Saharan African, access to drinking water is a much bigger deal and thirst suddenly gains an immediacy that a Westerner will never feel. So it is with access to sex. (Alt…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/03/14 03:49 PM
3

To be searingly honest, yes, a bit, at least for me. I mean, the idea that women are going to sexually neglect a guy like me (higher beta father-type) for 10 years, have a series of short-term flings (ie. give low-cost sex to alphas) and come around demanding I "put a ring on it" when her ovaries start bleating actually makes me quite angry. I mean, that's not what happened with me, but I'm angry on behalf of the in-group I empathize with. I can't believe, for example, that some guy is going to …
/r/PurplePillDebate30/03/14 03:41 PM
25

Ummm.. The sub isn't supposed to have downvotes, but I regularly see TRP-positive comments with 0 or less scores.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/03/14 03:32 PM
2

Met her at school at random in the cafeteria. She triggered my "romantic possibility" circuit by being intellectually curious, and seemed into me. The was Roe1996, so very much pre-redpill - plucked up my courage, called her and asked her out for coffee. Spiralled down deep into mutual infatuation. Moved in together after college. Married in early 2000's. Relationship is fulfilling, productive and happy. Both Purple-ish pill.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/14 08:25 PM
1

Just to be clear - I wasn't being judgmental at all. Spanking children is common. Spanking as a sexual act is common. No biggie. (Well, spanking children is wrong I think, but that aside...)
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/14 06:38 AM
1

Keep in mind, the scroll bar includes the comments, which there are quite a lot of. The main article isn't that long. The TL;DR is that the men in this guys social circle are all insecure about the "history" of the women they're dating, but can't bring themselves to admit it.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/14 06:35 AM
5

Rationalization is like my favorite thing ever, I think about it a lot. "You are not king of your brain - you are the creepy guys beside the king saying a most judicious choice, sire" -Steve Kaas Dale Carnegie also said (in the same book) (roughly, cause I'm going from memory) - "There's two reasons people do things - the real reason, and the reason that sounds good." Ha - I remember my favorite moment in the entire Breaking Bad series (spoiler alert) - near the end - Walter is having that final…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/14 06:05 AM
0

According to the author, it means that all women are always trying to "trade up" their partner for someone better. Can you link me to where he says this? He's written a lot on hypergamy, and this seems very uncharitable and doesn't anywhere near capture what he says about how hypergamy operates (in his world view). So men who have sex with attractive women and trade them in for someone better are only following their biological imperative. Again, can you link me where he says this specific thing…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/14 05:53 AM
1

You can bias yourself by following whatever aspect of a community you wish. In evaluating risk, you want to the look at the failures. All I'm saying.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/14 09:46 PM
1

I've updated my opinion on "sperm competition" - some of that stuff (esp. regards infidelity) is still in play, but the protein that causes semen to clump into a "plug" in the cervix is broken in humans, there's no evidence of "blocker" sperm in humans, &etc. I think a lot of this stuff is broken because homo sapiens are pair-bonded & high paternal investment. My opinion of open relationships is informed by the strewn wreckage across marriage forums and /r/relationships &etc. of marriages that b…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/14 08:57 PM
17

Women are consensus-seekers, and a guy who's slept with many women is "consensus approved" - that's why "pre-selection" works. (You don't necessarily have to have "slept" with many women - they just have to all want to sleep with you) Guys are hierarchy-creators, and success with women is both a side-benefit, and a marker, of having a prominent place in the hierarchy. "Sluts" lower the "price" of sex by giving it away too easily, which is why women tend to disapprove - since obtaining a man's lo…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/14 08:19 PM
2

I also don't object to any sexual practises that are consensual - but cuckolding to me is kinda gross. I think cuckolding as a fetish is leveraging onto a male instinctual response to the infidelity of a bonded-pair love interest - which is both to be humiliated and turned on. Some people do seek strong negative emotions like humiliation to accompany sexual feelings. It seems obvious the "turned-on" response is designed to trying to impregnate your love-interest with your sperm to beat out the o…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/14 07:58 PM
12

No! What we need is to ban the word bossy! OK, apologies for the snark. Yes, I think the female tendency for risk-aversion, and consensus-seeking has a lot of do with the glass ceiling and the glass floor. I think your story is a great illustration of how this works. I know this is an exaggerated view of the world, but it really does seem like many women (especially of the feminist persuasion) a) quite literally don't see low-status men and b) think high-status men had their status conferred on …
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/14 07:39 PM
3

An acceptable relationship age = half your age plus seven years. So if I'm thirty (I wish!) I can have a relationship with a 22 year old, but no younger. (Edit: I think it works because the +7 part sort of shrinks as a proportion of the total age difference as the ages grow, which models how we think humans mature - which seems roughly accurate, as we mature very quickly early and then slow down)
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/14 07:02 PM
2

Ya, fair enough. I was just using "fetish" as a placemarker for "preference" - I didn't want to get sidetracked into an evo-bio debate for the appeal of youth to men ;)
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/14 07:00 PM
1

There's the half plus seven rule. Which Redpillschool is clearly breaking. But where did the half plus seven rule come from? Beats me...
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/14 06:58 PM
1

We have no way of knowing this.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/14 06:47 PM
4

But it's possible to be preyed upon in a relationship without being aware of it. Sure - but I'm objecting to the characterization of predator/prey to begin with - I expect if the "prey" were aware of their prey status, they wouldn't be in the relationship to begin with. Again, I think this is true about both genders, not just for men. Fair enough, and my doubt about the characterization also applies to couger/cub relationships. (Interesting that the metaphor that came to my mind was maternal and…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/14 06:44 PM
8

Sorry to be annoying, but I have to resort to defining terms again: The predator/prey relationship is by definition a violation of the "prey's" agency - I mean, the prey doesn't want to get eaten, that's why it's prey. You can't discuss a relationship and only talk about one side. If the 30 year old is a predator, the 18 year old is prey. It's a huge assumption that a 30 year old who has a preference for women on the south side of their 20's has bad intent. Maybe it's justified, but I'm going to…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/14 04:52 PM
8

If I didn't make myself clear, the fault is mine - I think I did flip that sign around, which is embarrassing. To summarize my position - "agency" means if you have enough agency to choose to wield a weapon in a foreign country on behalf of your government, you also have enough agency to choose to sleep with an older man. (Putting aside selective service - which is important, but outside the scope).
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/14 04:27 PM
6

Hold up. Pillburt's point in bringing up armed forces service is that blown-off limbs don't grow back, whereas - even given the scenario where RedPillSchool is somewhat sleazy (which we don't know) in his pursuit of 18-year-olds - a girl can shed a few tears and re-enter the dating game a little wiser for the experience. There is no argument that blown-off limbs or death < a fling with a sleazy guy who wants sex The hypocrisy of society here has yet to be addressed in this thread. The hypocrisy …
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/14 03:41 PM
2

Or a sad commentary on womens' ability to communicate what gets them off.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/14 02:34 PM
1

And domination & power are what? Sorry for the socratic questioning, but domination & power are expressions of the social hierarchy the men seem to prefer operating in since time immemorial. It's not inherently evil, or wonderful, it's just the way it is. Bullying is just the "evil" expression of this - but it has a light side as well as a shadow side. All large civilization-supporting efforts are products of hierarchical social arrangements.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/14 02:06 PM
3

Some of them were pre-orgasmic before they met me Nice humble-brag there ;) I think this is a function of the women whom you're attracted to.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/03/14 02:00 PM
4

Here's the thing: Women (broadly speaking, hugely generalizing, etc.) don't care as much about their orgasm as men do. Women get all kinds of benefits from sex - closeness, intimacy, etc. I have even met & heard of women (not neurotypical) who have never had one, have no interest in having one, but enjoy the warm fuzzies from sexual contact. And frankly, the onus is on her to let you know when she wants one and how to get her there. Romance novels portray sex as some kind of psychic mind-reading…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/03/14 12:00 AM
11

Depends which instinct - we certainly have an instinct to pair-bond (actions of oxytocin &etc.) - but we also have an instinct for opportunistic extra-pair mating. It's only the latter instinct that marriage suppresses. I'm very doubtful that humans were ever like bonobos.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/03/14 09:08 PM
12

Many, many reasons. Working from evo bio up: Women just have a lower sex drive (speaking very broadly, on average) than men. Sex drive is related to testosterone level, and women just have less of the stuff. There's also the biological cost of pregnancy on women vs. men. &etc. I know milage varies wrt to drive, and quite widely, but I've seen quite a few low drive women (once/month) and no men that would be happy with that level of activity. (No infidelity, either). (I'm married to a pretty low-…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/03/14 09:06 PM
2

Another, more polite, way of stating this is women's sexuality has intrinsic value - such that men will want to interact with her regardless of her other qualities (or lack thereof). This is basically true. It's a source of insecurity for a lot of women, because she is forever doubting the intentions of men who wish to associate with her (in much the same way rich kids only hang out with other rich kids 'cause it's the only way to make sure it's not their access to money that's valued). It's a s…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/03/14 11:19 AM
15

Upvoted for absolutely ruthless adherence to red pill principles.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/03/14 11:10 AM
2

Thanks in turn - that's a good one to have in the arsenal
/r/PurplePillDebate25/03/14 02:09 AM
2

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/B:SERS.0000011068.42663.ce Maybe not "refutes" (and don't know sample size, alas) - but not exactly supportive. You should check out this thread for some interesting debate from both sides.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/03/14 07:23 PM
5

The first study has been criticized because it wasn't properly blinded (there were "It's a girl!"-type pink balloons in the room, influencing the adults interacting with the children). Properly blinded replications showed (I've been told) no difference until weeks later. The second study takes place at 6 months, which is some time for learning to happen. There undoubtedly are neuro-anatomical gender dimorphisms, but we don't yet know (with any certainty) what those precisely are, how they play o…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/03/14 04:37 PM
2

It's something a guy has to definitely be cognizant of, but like anything, it's a calculated risk, and you can manipulate the likelihoods through mate-selection & a little RP knowledge.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/03/14 01:19 PM
10

Not for me. Intelligence & empathy were additional traits I was filtering for. Men who optimize for looks without considering shared values are just asking to get divorced later IMO.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/03/14 03:19 AM
4

I appreciate your perspective. Mine is this: The TRP subreddit is growing at a rate of 1000 new subscribers every 4 or 5 weeks, right? Since we accept there's generally an "angry" phase followed by acceptance, and then a softening of attitude as you achieve some success, what we're probably seeing is 1000 new "angry" guys that are going to go through the process. My personal, biased opinion is that the TRP has softened quite a bit since the first months of it's inception - more posts focusing on…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/03/14 07:47 PM
11

I only just skimmed the article, but my surface impression is that all ideological movements (TRP, feminism, white supremacy, black supremacy) are going to be based on some variant of the threat narrative - the threat narrative is IMO vital to understand as it is always present in how an in-group perceives an out-group. Here, the author is drawing comparisons between the Threat Narrative structure between TRP and white supremacists, because these are the two groups most anathema to progressives.…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/03/14 03:19 PM
1

See your "equal and above" point above. As I think the single-motherhood rate indicates, a woman would rather have no man then a low-status man.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/03/14 02:31 PM
10

This is just elaborate rationalizing away women's agency, IMO. Lots of people on this planet (unfortunately) have psychological problems like low-esteem, social anxiety, etc. Only for women, oddly, do we expect the world to adapt to their needs. No one offered me opportunities to interact with attractive women because I had social anxiety (and I never felt entitled to). I adapted and overcame. If gender equality is going to be a thing, we've got to apply consistent standards. If it happened to a…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/14 07:55 PM
3

Interestingly, my wife today asked me a hypothetical - if and when my two daughters want to go on birth control, do I want to know? I hmmmed and hawed about this for a couple of minutes, and settle on yes - more because I'm big on knowing available information when possible. Not looking forward to it. Ha! I remember being a progressive young man and thinking to myself "Why should it matter?" Funny how reality changes you... But, ya, I plan to have an age appropriate discussion with them about ho…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/14 07:44 PM
7

I'm only willing to give this one a "slightly sleazy" rating. It's not "rapey" as there's no non-consent involved, provided the woman isn't actually passed out from drinking. 2-3 "drinks" over an hour or so is a lot for a women. If she's drinking martinis, 3 of those over the course of two hours would give her a BAC of 0.25 to 0.30. That's flat out drunk. The onus is on women, like all responsible adults who enjoy alcohol, to know their own limits and the effect alcohol has on them, and act acco…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/14 07:38 PM
2

shouldn't women be looking for someone who is actually better Women do generally look for the highest status man she can get... (all else equal) not lowering themselves in order to get a man Well, when you live in a culture where women have access to what used to be male-exclusive avenues of gaining status, you've got a problem then, don't you?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/14 07:30 PM
3

Specific examples, please. If anything, we have an "anti-rape culture," as the force of our culture (in the aggregate) is overwhelmingly against rape.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/14 03:33 AM
3

One can reasonably claim, say, South Africa has a rape culture. One cannot reasonably make the same claim about America, or in higher education. RAINN's letter was specifically directed at the Whitehouse, over their insane policy of requiring Colleges to adjudicate sexual assault cases. That's the (admittedly implicit) context I was arguing in.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/03/14 12:05 AM
4

I think RAINN's position on the matter is well-considered and grounded in fact. Rape (in OECD countries, perhaps even generally) is a crime committed by mentally damaged individuals - many of them victims of abuse themselves. Outside these situations of abuse, it's hard to see what "culture" has to do with anything.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/03/14 09:45 PM
2

Hypergamy means (among other things) that women feel attracted to a man who is above her in social status. I'm not a Christian, but I think this is what's behind the Bible's exhortation of wives to be "submissive" to their husbands. If the man is slightly above the woman in social status (in the marriage), it encourages her attraction to him. NAWALT, maybe, but social dominance & leadership in a tribe is a strong indicator of genetic fitness.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/03/14 01:43 PM
1

Thanks - these are nuanced and complex issues, so there's no easy answers. I've seen anecdotal evidence that the potential exists for both men & women to get hosed in family courts, and it's an adversarial process so that's to be expected. I've never seen (YMMV) an MRA complain about child support by itself - the complaint is paying child support, plus seeing children you are strongly bonded to every other week, or child support "debtor's prison", or the courts not enforcing what little visitati…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/03/14 11:46 PM
3

Every issue you mention is basically "But what about men?" Ya, that's it exactly. I have no objection to special lobby groups or gov't appointees who look out for women, I just think men should get them also.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/03/14 09:16 PM
4

Just because there is a movement to decrease violence towards women doesn't mean you're automatically increasing violence towards men. That's illogical. Except that wasn't what I was saying. From the wikipedia entry on VAWA: Although the title of the Act and the titles of its sections refer to victims of domestic violence as women, the operative text is gender-neutral, in theory providing coverage for male victims as well.[25] Individuals have not been successful in using VAWA to provide equal c…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/03/14 09:15 PM
2

Thanks for the thoughtful post - I agree with most of it. This post on leadership seems relevant - it conveys to me important ideas about social dominance - that even in strict hierarchies like the military there are more exchanges of power and things are more nuanced then simple top-down obediance. Really, relationships where one person makes all the decisions and gets all their needs met at the expense of the other seem more like situations of abuse rather than leadership.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/03/14 08:02 PM
11

Not only is it not morally wrong, it's prudent. From wikipedia on sociosexual orientation: Individuals who are sociosexually unrestricted tend to score higher on openness to experience, and be more extraverted, less agreeable, lower on honesty-humility, more erotophilic, more impulsive, more likely to take risks and more likely to have an avoidant attachment style. IOW, excessive promiscuity is a pretty big red flag (cerberus pateris) on a person's suitability as a long-term mate. Besides which,…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/03/14 02:48 AM
5

Ya, exactly - funny thing - we always had a teasing, provocative dynamic, even before I knew what a neg was (and she gives as good as she gets). It's something we both got from our respective parents' marriage.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/03/14 01:40 AM
5

Looks like you and FortunateBum had an argument over the definition of a word. Should've played rationalist taboo on the word "tenderness." Anyhoo - it looks to me like FortunateBum is in the "overcompensation" phase of the red pill. Social dominance and genuine niceness are not mutually exclusive. Mileages vary in relationships, but there are times to display empathy, vulnerability and (as you say) tenderness, and there are times to display strength. What women get out of this is a form of emot…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/03/14 06:07 PM
6

Click around the website for NOW - the most visible, most powerful (assumption on my part - not sure if true) feminist lobbying organization in the US. What do you see? "Crisis in family courts" focuses exclusively on males-as-abusers (even though survey-based data show women are agressors about as often) - with no discussion on shared-parenting-as-default (which is really the only just way to have a family court system). "Ending violence against women" - men never suffer violence? How about "en…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/03/14 05:31 PM
3

I thought I'd read something about monogamy being fairly modern. This is actually hugely controversial. We don't have evidence to say for sure how humans before... say 10,000 years ago actually lived (ie. pre-agriculture) so all we have to go on is indirect evidence. Christopher Ryan (Sex at Dawn) has found a few modern primitive horticultural/foraging societies that don't seem to exhibit high paternal investment/sexual jealousy, plus the Muoso of modern China as evidence that ancient humans wer…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/03/14 04:03 AM
5

Try this one: http://denisdutton.com/baumeister.htm
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/14 09:15 PM
7

And if so, in what ways might we be able to close the "empathy gap" here between girls and boys? Make the men in your life (especially your sons) know that they are intrinsically worthy of love. I know it sounds saccharine, but men resist showing vulnerability because they are afraid of losing out on love. Funny story - I was watching Mulan this past weekend with my daughters. My oldest is 6 & is high-functioning autistic. At the part where Mulan's father is about to get conscripted into the arm…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/14 07:49 PM
1

The individual can cope with stress in one of two ways: by trying to reduce the internal load of "extra" resources being used, or, more simply, by seeking external support. It's a bit weird to not consider this and the results of the study in light of physical dimorphism - of course (it seems to me) the physically weaker gender is going to focus efforts on acquiring help, while the stronger focuses on martialing internal resources. To leave the bounds of the study - are boys socially pressured t…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/14 06:59 PM
1

Fair point - but arguably the whole point of TRP is that the "legitimate" scripts weren't working for us, so we built our own theme park, with Blackjack and hookers. Scientists can label us pseudoscience and go back to studying hymenoptera wasps or whatever while we lift weights...
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/14 04:36 PM
1

My opinion is that both TRP and TRP detractors are too hung up on scientific legitimacy. There's some loose basis in evo bio, evo psych and social psych, but ultimately the hard empirical work has yet to be done. As such, the definitions IMO should be based on what tends to work "in the field" based on compared notes - and the definitions are going to evolve and get updated based on new information and changing frameworks. Kay's definitions that I presented are somewhat different from the origin…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/14 03:57 PM
1

I like the MMSL model best. Alpha = raw attraction - which includes low fluctuational asymmetry, having a decent body, displaying strong self-investment, confidence & leadership, dressing well, &etc. Beta = relationship comfort - resources, provisioning, loyalty, affection, invested in the relationship, &etc. A woman will prefer to get a good alpha/beta balance in one man, but can just as easily get beta from one man and alpha from another - this is how infidelity typically plays out - it's poss…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/03/14 03:23 PM
2

Niceguystm are completely non-self invested (self-divested?). Their (subconscious) contract with the world is if I meet the needs of everybody in my life without asking, they will meet mine without asking. (h/t Dr. Robert Glover for this very insightful characterization) Assholes are completely self-invested, to the exclusion of all others. There is no contract with the world, they just take what they want from it. Niceguystm sometimes overcompensate for their failed strategy by becoming asshole…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/03/14 10:07 PM
1

I think the more we start breaking down those pesky gender roles the more common that'll be. You can change electrical resistance by varying the ambient temperature. I could design a cell phone with all kinds of new degrees of freedom - as long as the people using them agreed to only do so outdoors in winter. This is what I think of whenever I see someone wants to "get rid of gender roles" - because what they really mean is fine tuning culture & society in order to incentivize men & women into a…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/03/14 08:25 PM
3

Perhaps because more money is dumped into Viagra research than female issues. Couple issues with this point - for one, Viagra was discovered by accident (as most "discoveries" in drug research are) while researching medication for high blood pressure - it's not like a huge team of scientists were working round the clock search for a boner pill. Second, drug companies tried like crazy to figure out a "female viagra" - but female arousal works entirely different so it was a failure. Third, drug co…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/03/14 06:22 PM
3

I disagree with most of your statements. You mean, factually?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/03/14 11:12 PM
9

It's "on them" that they're depressed??
/r/PurplePillDebate16/03/14 11:10 PM
5

I mean, if guys leaked precum for a week every month, you can sure as fuck bet it would be covered. Why do you think this? Men have actually proven to take an inordinate amount of crap from the system and remained silent about it - no has takento the streets over men's average shorter life-span, the 94% rate of male workplace deaths, or infant genital mutilation (circumcision). If men as a broad group aren't pissed about having the ends of their dicks lopped off, what makes you think they'd care…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/03/14 10:37 PM
2

I mean this in a much larger perspective than the SMP, to encompass how men & women relate to each other politically & socially, but here's what inevitably has to happen: Negotiation.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/03/14 03:51 PM
34

You are not the king of your brain. You are the creepy guy standing next to the king going "a most judicious choice, sire". -Steven Kaas
/r/TheRedPill14/03/14 04:39 AM
1

Re: the "women can't love like men" trope - I think "women love opportunistically" has less to do with a quality which is intrinsically part of female nature, and more to do with the perverse incentives currently at play in family courts. When women perceive (rightly or wrongly) that they can get out of a "boring" marriage with little cost to themselves... When divorce law made it easy for men for "trade up to a younger model" - that's what men did. Alas, most humans act based on cost-benefit an…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/03/14 09:48 PM
5

Warren Farrell, on his transition from being on NOW's board of directors to speaking up for men: As I explained women's perspectives to men, I often noticed a woman 'elbow" the man she was with, as if to say, "see, even an expert says what a jerk you are." I slowly became good at saying what women wanted to hear. I enjoyed the standing ovations that followed... [As he started advocating for men] "Now when women asked, "Why are men afraid of commitment?" or feminists said "Men have the power," my…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/03/14 07:20 PM
0

Some stuff (not primarily sourced, alas, but common MRA talking points that are worth discussing): Women are more likely to use a weapon during domestic violence than men, and more likely to attack while the male is prone (sleeping or whatever) - so there's more to unpack then men's superior physical strength Women are more likely to use proxy violence (ie. hire a hitman or manipulate a boyfriend into killing her husband) which won't show up in murder stats The "Sleeping with the Enemy" scenario…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/03/14 07:05 PM
1

Ah OK - apologies for my misinterpretation - so hard to tell over the interwebs. I have gotten involved in physical fights to protect males though. It was the right thing to do at the time. That is.. awesome. Thanks for sharing.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/03/14 05:26 AM
7

Your snark is noted. When women are jumping in front of their boyfriends during spree shootings I'm sure you'll let me know. Seriously, though, I'm not advocating strict nor prescriptive, top-down gender roles, but I expect they'll continue to have a tidal pull despite a culture based on equity.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/03/14 09:56 PM
8

I've plugged this video before - here it is again Gender roles shouldn't be rejected IMO - there is much that is noble about traditional masculinity (protective instinct, the building of civilization) and traditional femininity (nurturing instinct, the care of civilization). But - we need to close the respect & accountability gap (for women) and the empathy gap (for men).
/r/PurplePillDebate07/03/14 03:47 PM
1

Originally you were suggesting this was a point of hypocrisy, that critics treat (harmful) gender roles different for men than for women. I don't think this was ever my position - everybody gender polices, because everyone has an intuition about how the genders are or should be - I've seen (both on the net and IRL) feminists gender police wives who are submissive to their husbands, for eg. I asked you for specific examples because specific examples are needed to understand how the way we gender …
/r/PurplePillDebate07/03/14 03:28 PM
2

I'm impressed - that's pretty much bang-on. It's still a work-in-progress, but I have put some effort into enhancing my people skills, and in particular, improving my relationship with my family (wife + 2 kids) - which is going well and is very rewarding.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/03/14 04:40 AM
1

True, but I never referred to instincts.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/03/14 12:08 AM
2

Yes - thank you, this is precisely the bone of contention. I want to repeat back to you what you've just said to me, not as an attempt to straw-man your statement (although you may interpret it as such), but as a raw emotional statement of my personal perspective on this: "You, as a man, and your natural inclinations, suck, and we're going to socially engineer you to act like something we like better." And I did that for a very long time. And then I stopped. And it felt good to stop. And that, I…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/14 09:06 PM
3

Hm... Specific examples... Working through lunch because it's easier to do that then draw a boundary with management and risk a conflict... Never taking a compliment without adding some self-deprecating qualifier... Let me give you an example by reversal: I recently had a client try to pressure me into extending a booking by claiming some earlier failure on my part but them behind. Roe2010 would've caved, maybe bitched about it to co-workers behind the client's back, and felt bad the rest of the…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/14 05:53 PM
5

I call false equivalence. "Toxic Masculinity" (where I've seen it used) refers to what men are, not what they can or cannot, or should or should not do - the implication being that toxicity is an intrinsic quality to how masculinity is expressed in the present and past. Examples of "toxic masculinity" are competitiveness and stoicness (even though these are very useful qualities in some contexts). If women can STEM, why aren't more of them doing so? Controversies over physical tasks like combat/…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/14 04:48 PM
0

People absolutely think there are negative gender roles for women. Name four.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/14 03:06 PM
2

Why not follow your parents footsteps? Oh, I did. Just because I'm concerned with mens' complaints, doesn't mean I have those same complaints myself. How does being self-sacrificing help Being endlessly self-sacrificing and never stating your own goals or preferences or asking for what you want never works ever. (Ask me how I know) This is what I'm saying - this behavior doesn't come from no where. It's taught and re-enforced.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/14 04:04 AM
2

So the goal of these niceguys - fulfilling relationships and sex - are stupid and weird and based on societal pressures?? I think your analogy has fallen apart...
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/14 03:59 AM
10

Er - I don't know where those quotes came from, but I'm pretty sure I never said that stuff. - ??? Anyhoo - that's an interesting question re: my dad. The story is this: I'm by temperament a socially shy introverted nerd, and my dad is basically your classic beta - which worked out well for my mom because of... other things that I'm leaving redacted. So my parents gave me a great model for how to be in a comfortable, companionate marriage (for which I am genuinely grateful - it's served me well)…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/14 03:34 AM
0

Standing corrected.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/14 03:13 AM
1

By the effect they've had on the world, to wit: I've worked for and with women often (which is good!) but my SAH wife can count on half a hand the number of SAHDs she's come into contact with, and this seems to be the same everywhere.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/14 03:12 AM
2

Things don't have to work - or be well designed - to show a need. Penis enlargement products demonstrate some men want larger penises, even if such products don't work. Mind you, I think both Glover and Kay produce excellent products, so...
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/14 02:20 AM
3

(maybe you could articulate further?) Sure - what tradcons and feminists have in common is that they both serve women's interests at the expense of men. Tradcons think men should be chivalrous and want to go back to the old days of the "women and children first!"-type of gender system, and feminists want men to share formal power, while leaving informal forms of female power intact. So there's an interesting synergy going on where men are losing formal power, are expected to maintain old codes o…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/14 02:15 AM
2

it's certainly not the universal you all claim it is. It doesn't have to be universal to be widely prevalent, and damaging. My theory is that a lot of guys say this because it allows them to avoid taking responsibility for their lack of success. Tough sell applying this criticism to TRP/the manosphere, where the overwhelming message is on results through action.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/14 01:54 AM
6

Most people will see through fictional portrayals, but information from trusted sources like parents or pastors isn't so easily dismissed.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/14 01:47 AM
1

We don't need reddit to know this is a big problem (in terms of population) - we only need the free market. And the free market has provided at least two guys (Dr. Robert Glover and Athol Kay) with nice little Keebler trees marketing self-help for NiceGuys (The MMSL forum banner is "Helping nice guys add a little bad boy without becoming total douchebags")
/r/PurplePillDebate06/03/14 12:51 AM
4

It's kind of a quantity thing. I think there's a point at which a person's venting just becomes annoying.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/14 06:40 PM
6

OK - so if I follow that thread user ProbablyBeenDrinking gives some perfectly practical advice for how to redirect your energy or vent to someone who'll listen w/out judging, some other user jumps down his throat for gender policing (which he wasn't doing), and the argument escalates until he actually does throw out a gender-policing-type line. 'k. No, venting isn't a female-specific thing, but the truth is, culturally we have a very small window of tolerance for males complaining about stuff. …
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/14 06:11 PM
1

Huh? I didn't get that at all from your link.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/14 05:50 PM
14

Sure - the basic problem is how do we distribute agency? It seems to me (some) feminists believe having rallies, holding signs, taking tumblr pictures of themselves with signs, strengthening institutions (sometimes to the extent of violating due process) to punish men, &etc. will eventually create a world where a woman can get blind, falling down drunk wherever she wants and still be safe. It's not that the goal of creating such a world is bad or wrong - it's just the actions I listed will proba…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/03/14 04:23 PM
1

No, I get it. 2nd-3rd wave feminism was about choices for women, and men haven't had their movement yet that fights for their choices (to be more involved & active in family life, say for eg). The problem, however, isn't just that progressivism isn't done, it's that progressivism is still very much predicated on a "blank slate" theory of human nature. I'm not a reactionary, but I do think biological gender differences exert a tidal pull on our decisions, so in a society free of social expectatio…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/03/14 09:32 PM
1

I'd say male sexuality is what's taboo - there are numerous examples of a gender-based asymmetry here - I've seen women reading "50 Shades" on the subway (with husband & children present) - no way you'd see the reverse with even mildly sexualized stuff for males (like, say, SI swimsuit issue). The self-help industry for women getting what they want from romantic relationships is huge and well-established - the PUA industry is the very first time something like this has arisen for men (admittedly…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/03/14 03:49 PM
1

I very much agree - which is why I reluctantly co-sign on the abrasiveness of TRP and the current MRM - it seems the only way to get folks to pay attention to legitimate issues is to get belligerent. On the changing landscape of PUA, I agree that Mark Manson moved things forward and towards positivity with some pretty important insights (along with guys like Ricky Raw) - but this was after a bunch of SMP "losers" broke the social taboo of developing systematic methods to "dating." If we really w…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/03/14 11:03 PM
2

I think that's great, and I appreciate that this is kinda how things work and everything... ...but where was all this help for guys who can't get laid before TRP? ...why was everyone content to let sexually unsuccessful males just exist as incels? ...why do men have to get angry and offend people before anyone takes their problems seriously?? (Not directed directly at you, 247sex)
/r/PurplePillDebate01/03/14 06:59 AM
4

I think the dynamics of gender discussion are really interesting, and it happens to converge on a lot of my other interests - statistics, evo bio, evo psych, game theory, etc. It's also - frankly - helped me work out a lot of my issues as a person, and improved my life in a few ways. I also have a strong attraction to weird ideas for some reason.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/02/14 06:44 AM
4

But surely suggesting that you are losing interest in her simply damages the relationship? Won't most women eventually dump you in the interests of their own happiness? I mean, certainly I would advise anyone in that situation to do so, and find someone who makes them feel secure. Or is this something that only works on highly narcissistic women? Roissy is describing some pretty cold-hearted manipulation here (I would never do what he's advocating here) - but he's also fighting the tide of cultu…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/02/14 05:58 AM
0

It seems to work both ways - a woman can be subjectively aroused but not get wet. For lubrication in general, I would want to be more general then "rape" and say all forms of vigorous or rough sex (which can also be consensual). I'm partial to the hypothesis that the purpose of this type of thrusting is to displace competing sperm which may already be present in the vaginal canal. Rape may be one reason subjective and physiological arousal are disconnected, the other driving factor (I suspect) i…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/02/14 10:47 PM
0

That... wasn't the argument I was making.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/02/14 07:26 PM
0

We talking past each other. You're trying to confirm or disconfirm a hypothesis, I've already given you the hypothesis, and am trying to operationalize the knowledge. The reason I think this will work is that I've done it in my own marriage and it's working out great. Dark triad and the associated attraction aren't black or white - they exist on a spectrum. I haven't been merely asserting the contrary, I've been trying to break down the concepts to gain deeper insights. You want to use the studi…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/02/14 05:49 PM
2

Maybe - might also be just catering to the audience. TRP is aimed at guys who have a hard time building attraction. I do agree that attraction is only one facet of an LTR and not a hard and fast determinate - there are plenty of "friendly room-mate" functional marriages but it's a sub-optimal situation that can be fixed IMO.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/02/14 05:30 PM
0

Not sure I agree. Studies on this using sphygometers (total guess at spelling too lazy to look it up this morning) show moisture to be completely decorrelated from subjective sexual response.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/02/14 05:28 PM
4

None of which changes my argument that men a) are ill-advised to pursue a romantic LTR if there is no attraction to begin with (and he wants any kind of sex life) and b) that attraction can be maintained and this is desirable.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/14 11:33 PM
0

I guess I'd say if you understand why dark triad traits are desirable, you can find context-appropriate ways to express that in an LTR. Take your cues from romance novels, and the plot of every romance novel is breathless infatuation with a dark traid-y alpha who is guided to find his caring side by the magical love (or vagina) of the heroine. And then they marry. To break down the dark triad: narcissism is attractive because it projects confidence and dominance. It's really pretty easy to proje…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/14 11:27 PM
3

you should try really hard to base a long term relationship on infatuation using the traits that people are unattracted This is not quite what I said so I'll be clear: Obviously you can't keep up the intensity of early-stage infatuation for the entire course of an LTR, but you can keep up a level of healthy mutual attraction with a little understanding of how attraction works. There seems to be this weird idea that attraction and companionate pair-bonding exists in a zero-sum relationship - very…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/14 09:43 PM
2

My model (and experience) are different: infatuation transitions into companionate or pair-bonded love. Those are not two independent factors, they're stages in the natural course of a romantic relationship (the purpose of which in the evolutionary environment was to turn a couple into parents). I do agree that people who display strong dark-triad tendencies would be very bad long-term mates, but there is a spectrum (by my reading of what these psych terms mean) running from co-dependant, to hea…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/14 09:34 PM
4

My favourite piece of advice from Athol over at MMSL: "Be the guy she'd have an affair with." Short-term mating = raw sexual attraction In a world of punitive divorce laws for men and state-enforced cuckoldry it's more important then ever for men to build LTRs on a base of serious mutual infatuation, and do what it takes to the maintain a high level of attraction throughout the marriage. Obviously, you can't be a dark-triad narcissist and a husband, but a woman will respect and get tingly around…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/02/14 08:00 PM
1

"Dating is easier for [gender]" is just a huge communication/empathy fail. It's harder for each sex to get what they value/want most from the opposite sex. Men want sex. Women want commitment. By and large. Obviously. They have something in common, though: NiceGuys(tm) who get systematically friendzoned and "sluts through serial monogamy" who get repeatedly dumped after a fling are both trying to get what they want by offering [commitment/sex] to people who have better options ("Out of their lea…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/02/14 11:20 PM
2

Yes - this is what I meant by "at the margins" - I will concede that TRP is inaccurate on this one - although I have to wonder how many men want to be more promiscuous - but don't get "access" to one of the fewer promiscuous women. Can't get that from this data, obviously. The bi-model "hump" at one partner for both sexes may indicate some of them are forming pair-bonds that last through college. I notice that the proportion of men who rack up a 15+ notch count goes up as they reach the older co…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/02/14 06:18 AM
4

Yes - thanks - that was very sloppy reading on my part. Susan takes on the Pareto principle as applied to the SMP here. Based on her analysis, I have to concede that there's not much credence to the RP meme on that one.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/02/14 05:56 AM
3

Here you go It is both supportive of some TRP principles, and indicates it's a good deal more complicated. The women "slutting it up with alphas" are marginal - in fact, all high-partner count folks seem to exist at the margins. If you take it as writ that men optimize for partner-count (not quite true but maybe generally) only 13% or so men manage to do so. But women have slightly more partners then men in every cohort, so they are clearly selecting from a small pool of men.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/02/14 03:00 AM
4

Thanks - ya - basically, I'm an aspie-ish nerd, so people have always seemed somewhat opaque to me and I just couldn't follow the trail of breadcrumbs to any kind of understanding. And Western Culture seems very invested in the idea that this stuff is "mysterious" and beyond the reach of analysis.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/02/14 10:39 PM
5

My teens/20s were the typical pile of fail as far as my romantic life was concerned, until I asked a pretty, smart girl I met at college. We quickly fell into a deep well of infatuation, which transitioned comfortably into a strong companionate bond. Marriage. Kids. A couple of years ago, I catch a TED talk - Philip Zimbardo (of Stanford Prison Experiment fame) "The Demise of Guys." He blames video games and porn. "Hey! I like video games and porn!" Off I go to try and disprove his hypothesis. A…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/02/14 06:59 PM
1

I also think there's an element of self-fulfilling prophecy in these types of scenarios. The man feels less manly, and fulfills his own prophecy by acting insecure. How statements like this look to me nowadays: "Women: never responsible for anything Men: responsible for everything" Oddly, the more progressive a person is, the more likely they are to make statements like this. Agree that the UK family court system is pretty fucked up. Possibly most fucked up anywhere in OECD countries.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/02/14 05:41 PM
1

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-467390/Househusband-backlash-high-flying-wives-ditch-men-em-em-wanted-stay-home.html What is it's logical conclusion? Just as society has given women options to achieve formal power (previously the exclusive domain of males), we now have to give men access to informal power - the power that comes from shaping the next generation by raising kids.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/02/14 02:14 PM
1

Another article on the subject: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-467390/Househusband-backlash-high-flying-wives-ditch-men-em-em-wanted-stay-home.html Here's what I see, in our culture at large: When a woman stays home with the kids, Oprah calls it the most difficult job on the planet When a man stays home with the kids, he can look forward to divorce papers.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/02/14 02:11 PM
2

Yes - and the social pressure (it should be noted) mainly comes from women. I agree - this situation may not continue into the future. We'll see if progressives are truly interested in following that philosophy to it's logical conclusion.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/02/14 04:07 PM
1

leave otherwise happy marriages instead. Some choice quotes from a New York Times article on marriages in which the woman is the breadwinner: “He never spent money that wasn’t his in an extravagant way,” she says while taking therapeutic sips of a Sea Breeze at Tribeca Grill on a recent evening. “But by not helping, he was freeloading.” “Sex was not a problem for him,” she goes on. “It was a problem for me. When someone seems like a child, it’s not that attractive. In the end, it felt like I had…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/02/14 03:38 PM
1

So how does this interpretation fit with the studies that show that men are subconsciously threatened when their partners are successful? Because these fears are at least partially accurate: http://www.jstor.org/doi/story/10.2307/PR.2011.06.22.4754815 The RP view on this is pretty straightforward - a man's status in the marriage market and his continued value as a partner is highly correlated to his income - a woman's income is largely irrelevant. This is related (by the RP view) to a woman's vu…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/02/14 04:17 AM
3

The OP was speculating on a cause of the trend (the death of the "beta provider" role) - funny how you declined to offer skepticism to that perspective. There are stay at home fathers. They're not common, but they exist. Here's why they're maybe not so common: http://www.jstor.org/doi/story/10.2307/PR.2011.06.22.4754815
/r/PurplePillDebate16/02/14 03:58 AM
6

OK - can you point me to the OKcupid/dating site adds from women seeking a nuturing, low-earning man to marry and be a SAHD? Can you point me to any evidence whatsoever that women aren't following the standard hypergamy script of seeking a man approximately at or above her social status or income tax bracket? To be pointed - "the freeing of gender roles" has applied exclusively to women - who have the choice between full-time work & motherhood, part-time work and motherhood, or full-time motherh…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/02/14 02:15 AM
13

Does marrying someone with less education mean “marrying down” economically? Not necessarily. When we look at the newlywed women who married someone with less education, we find that a majority of these women actually “married up.” In 2012, only 39% of newlywed women who married a spouse with less education out-earned their husband, and a majority of them (58%) made less than their husband. Oops. Not so much a change in the narrative, then. High-earning women eventually run out of options and de…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/02/14 03:25 PM
2

A guess: low fluctuating asymmetry
/r/PurplePillDebate15/02/14 06:11 AM
2

Hm - haven't made myself clear. Here's him: I've never felt romantic chemistry with a woman ever, and I'm honestly losing any faith that it will ever happen. Here's you: I don't think I've ever been afraid of being alone forever, at least romantically I don't know if it's a you/him thing, or a male/female thing (I have reason to suspect the latter) - but you seem to feel romance will be waiting for you when you're ready for it, he feels like romance is behind a wall he'll never get over or past.…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/02/14 08:02 PM
1

Thanks for sharing
/r/PurplePillDebate14/02/14 07:55 PM
1

Agency is everything. If you are choosing to hold off for whatever reason, that is much different than feeling like you will never find love.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/02/14 04:16 PM
3

It wasn't "instascorn" - I have well-justified doubts about whether resorting to sex as an economic transaction is really the best thing for a depressed young man.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/02/14 04:11 PM
6

On hooking-up: From a guys perspective, it looks like a pareto distribution, where the top 20% of guys are getting 80% of the sex - that right there looks like a competition. The stats cited by Wendy Walsh seem to bolster this (although it also looks like all casual sex is happening at the margins of the SMP). It behooves a guy looking to get in on that to take a competitive approach. Romantic relationships are more characterized by signalling problems. It should be noted the "red pill" marriage…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/02/14 11:33 PM
2

The adversarial SMP existed prior to TRPs various characterizations of it - that why I drew a conclusion about the SMP from the language describing it. It's not like someone said "cock carousel" - and then women started delaying marriage and pursuing short term sexual encounters.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/02/14 11:07 PM
12

Keep working on your depression Nothing wrong with that. throw yourself into nonsexual pursuits that you enjoy Nothing wrong with that. locate and patronize (and overtip) an independent sex worker This is awful. Here's why: Did he seem like he had a lot of disposable income? Will a short prison sentence and getting added to the sex offender registry seem like it would help with the depression thing? Does a sex worker really seem like a good model for interacting with women? Will a sex worker rea…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/02/14 10:52 PM
9

He's also (implicitly) saying there's nothing he can do to raise his SMV now to try and meet his relationship goals. Which I do disagree with, yes.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/02/14 10:44 PM
7

I've been in a courtroom before (NB. not as a defendant lol) and there was plenty of contempt expressed through body language & tone of voice underneath all the formal politeness. And I'm pretty sure football players don't say politically correct things or take each others' feelings into account on the field. TRP be doesn't have to be polite. So they aren't. That the effect of this dehumanizing language This is IMO your misunderstanding: The language doesn't dictate the feeling, the feeling prec…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/02/14 10:35 PM
7

we moved to a new city I wasn’t happy about it I didn’t like the way he interacted with my fiancé and we would occasionally fight about it. These three quotes are probably indicative of the tone and direction of the entire relationship. She does what she wants, he protests but eventually loses frame and caves. No sense of compromise or boundary-setting on his part. Also hugely passive-aggressive: I was kind of a jerk during the moving process Her respect for him simply eroded 'til there was noth…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/02/14 09:52 PM
4

I'm not sure if one can view the "SMP" as adversarial without covert or overt without a degree of...disrespect towards women. And men. Everyone, really. I agree - and yet here we are. If you think "adversarial" doesn't describe the SMP, that a discussion I'm eager to have!
/r/PurplePillDebate13/02/14 08:55 PM
5

What I take from TRPer's use of language is that the modern SMP is adversarial. And I think that's about right. So I think it's appropriate to reflect that.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/02/14 07:54 PM
3

Ugh... Those are ugly things to say. Not very compassionate.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/02/14 01:29 PM
4

Blue pill me is still largely in favour of the progressive direction of travel towards gender equity - red pill me sees the necessity of modulating this to account for the fundamental differences between men & women. I think Wendy Walsh's likening casual sex to a "superstimulus" like chocolate cake or porn is bang-on. I think both TRP plate-spinners and sex positive feminism both advocate a narcissistic, means-ends approach to human sexuality. I guess that's "purple pill". I agree with most of t…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/14 11:03 PM
2

Ya, see that doesn't work on me - I just go ahead and get my wive's clothes wet - especially if she's wearing white lol
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/14 02:13 PM
5

I do the dishes often - kinda because it's got a "chop wood carry water" feel that I find kinda meditative and relaxing - whereas my SO hates doing them. Purely anecdotally - doing dishes has a null effect on her amorous attitude towards me. If I do something "manly" like house-repair or whatever, I am practically guaranteed some flirtatious innuendo and an ass-grab or two. (I do jobs like these cause they need doin', not some attempt to illicit a response from her - this is just something I've …
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/14 12:10 AM
1

Thanks - consider me updated, and eager to see more research.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/14 12:05 AM
1

Outstanding - thanks.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/14 12:03 AM
1

The primary male pair-bonding hormone (going by prairie vole research) is vasopressin, no?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/14 08:32 PM
2

Well, if you're a coach or selling books, you may want to be transparent wrt the expectations or thresholds of success.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/14 08:02 PM
2

Ya, I agree with this. Valid RP arguments are of the form "Most X" or "X generally", not "All X". "All X" statements are suspect by default, when applied to humans. The problem is, we tend to talk past each other when an RPer says "My experience is [generalization]" and a BPer says "My single example invalidates [generalization]!" when the RPer wasn't making an "All X" statement to begin with.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/14 01:40 AM
2

Ya - the stats I've seen agree with that (women report like 15% orgasm rate on one night stands). Many men do get a bit... squirrelly about women's partner count for LTRs because of paternal investment.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/02/14 01:26 AM
0

Short answer: sperm is cheap, eggs are expensive. Longer answer: Women produce not very many eggs over lifetime, have to bring baby to term, nurse, etc. All biologically very costly. So she is highly motivated (in evolutionary sense) to maximize for genetic fitness on short-term encounters. Better no sex at all then sex with a sub-optimum male. Men's investment in short-term encounter is one orgasm. Men produce billions of sperm over a few years. So better to have sex with as many women, even if…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/14 11:46 PM
-1

Nope. "Male as default" in no way helps you understand the male experience - not in any deep way. Besides which, I've never seen them indicate on Sesame Street Elmo's gender in any way so I think you're projecting here. My experience of maleness is that it is way more circumscribed wrt gender performance then femaleness. And frankly, "men as serving women" is the default I absorbed (chivalry, "never hit a girl - even if she hits you", be ready to jump to a woman's defence, even if she's a strang…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/14 11:36 PM
1

One thing that's never acknowledged in these types of conversations is the imbalance between what men & women can expect in the "short-term encounter" SMP. Basically: women shoot higher, men accept lower. So an average guy has to upgrade his "attractiveness" to above average if he hopes to sleep with "average" attractiveness girls (on a short term basis). LTR's will tend to be more assortive I think.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/14 09:51 PM
-1

You understand males better because of Elmo??
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/14 09:45 PM
1

This is still a misunderstanding, as CF/O is an expression of "preferred roles" in the marriage, not about one partner eclipsing the autonomy of the other. Respectfully, you're exercising strong black & white thinking and refusing to see how power relationships (or the metaphors we use to describe them) are often very nuanced. Here are the ways the CF/O marriage dynamic is quite similar to the formal hierarchy version: The F/O runs things in the C's absence The F/O is responsible for those under…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/14 09:35 PM
1

Well, LessWrong is composed of very intelligent, often non-neurotypical people who have a strong interested in artificial intelligence and a strong form of human rationality involving applied Bayesian statistical analysis. More PUAs are probably ex-nerds. That's about the extent of the overlap I'd imagine. My perspective on TRP is that most of the models of sexual attraction are about right in a general statistical sense. I use some TRP theory in my own marriage (alpha/beta balance is a super-im…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/14 09:18 PM
1

Couple of things: Interestingly, the "seduction" discussion on LessWrong caused a pretty huge forum blow-up, and I believe the moderators shut it down (I recall there was a large-ish influx for PUA men, whose goals are kinda not orthogonal to those of the site). Also, I've noted the number of counter-arguments to RP generalizations occur in the form of "My relationship/experience isn't like that..." So... that's interesting.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/14 08:29 PM
1

Ya, thanks - that's a reasonably cogent argument I think. To restate - "game" can make up for a lack of natural social skill (like being a natural introvert or something) as opposed to something that helps everyone
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/14 08:03 PM
2

you operate on confirmation bias If it's true that the men of TRP have come to that sub because of past failures in relationship, they've falsified at least one approach which is not successful. Even if it's true (and I think it is) that much of TRP is wild over-compensation, it's in the the direction of goal success. Because that one girl out of 40 who said yes when you asked her to sleep with you proves this. Without knowing the baseline, 1 out of 40 might be a huge success, where all previous…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/14 07:59 PM
1

Er.. My wife certainly hopes not ;) No, it's pure intellectual curiosity on my part. One way to look at it: If you approach 1000 women in a year without studying any theories about game, you're automatically going to get more comfortable & confident approaching women. Maybe (I don't know, but maybe) you get a comparable conversion rate just by developing the right attitude via aversion therapy and the action of probability. That's what I mean by "diminishing returns."
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/14 07:47 PM
1

By his self-assessment is average looking. He's also a highly respected game blogger and coach. So, what I'm not thinking based on what you're saying is, a) you're constrained by looks, and b) there's a diminishing return beyond which more practise doesn't = a better "conversion" rate.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/14 07:26 PM
1

I fully admit I've never done day game, so I'm not qualified to offer an argument as to whether the posted stats are representative or what they indicate. I'm mainly looking for red pill day-gamers to help interpret the stats, and blue pill folks to offer placebo-type explanations for the effectiveness of game, and see where the chips land.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/14 06:29 PM
2

In principle, or in the abstract, yes, she would say this. But when it comes down to it, if there's a noise downstairs at night, I'm the one going down to investigate. If there's any situation of physical danger, I'm the one who meets it head-on while she looks to get the children away. That's just the way it works. At the 2012 Aurora Batman shootings, there were boyfriends who shielded their girlfriends, but not the other way around.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/14 04:14 PM
3

No, it our case, it's pretty genuine - my wife is a very independent-minded person, and genuinely wants agency and responsibility in our relationship (and is fully self-consistent on this point ie. doesn't try to shovel blame on me for acknowledged mutual decisions) and she brings a lot of value to the table in this respect. Which is why it took me a while to understand how it works wrt the "shadow function".
/r/PurplePillDebate08/02/14 12:30 AM
0

No, I meant that women are trained dogs/robots. The responsibility thing I get - it's like, a necessary consequence of the CF/O dynamic.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/14 10:57 PM
0

So I just went back and read the post you are talking about, and I don't think that divorce is always the man's fault. That's sexist nonsense. I'll confess: I've been ambivalent about this sort of thing for a long time. There's a way between "reactionary" me and "progressive" me. "Reactionary" me thinks we should just let our natural preferences influence our relationships (which would, if I'm right, statistically end up with a lot of CF/O marriages). "Progressive" me wants women to start taking…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/14 09:58 PM
7

Women may initiate a large portion of divorces, but you don't really know why they're initiating them. Divorces don't necessarily come out of nowhere, women could be initiating divorces because the guys were cheating, gambling, alcoholics, etc. There's always a way to blame men for women's actions... ...except in this case. Stats say most often given reason is "lack of commitment" (whatever that means) @ 73%. Infidelity is 55% (but doesn't break out who cheated by sex, so...). Arguing is 56%. So…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/14 09:34 PM
0

When I was looking for a job I did ask my husband's advice on my resume. But I also sent it to two close female friends and my brother for input. Are they also my "Captain"? I don't think so. This is a different thing than what I'm trying to get at I think. I'd call it "support" - and it can definitely flow both ways and outside the relationship.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/14 09:17 PM
3

we want a 'rock'. A man we know in our bones we can count on when the going gets extremely tough. That quality in a man is pretty much priceless. Ya, very much this for us. I'm not some invulnerable tough guy or whatever, but I very much strive to be dependable in this exact sense.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/14 09:14 PM
0

Very context-dependant for us. If we're shopping for (to use your example) audio/visual equipment, I'm the one leading/dragging. If it's clothes, she's the one. The point is how the relationship dynamic responds to stress.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/14 09:12 PM
2

Basically, I think advice for het men considering marriage comes down to this: You have no legal protection whatsoever - don't be deluded about this. If you wouldn't trust your bride to do business with you "on her word and a handshake," you shouldn't be getting married. I have an explicit agreement with my wife that if things don't work out, 50/50 shared custody and asset split is the default starting point, no involvement in the courts, with some sane, temporary alimony towards her (cause she …
/r/PurplePillDebate07/02/14 04:18 PM
-1

Fair point - there are "arms race" elements to mating - but it's less about "who wins" the ultimate mating contests, as much about what qualities are elevated as a result of that contest. I chose intelligence because it is one quality that civilizations are highly dependant on to solve their problems - I don't think that's really disputable. It's not the only such quality, obviously.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/02/14 03:15 PM
6

Alpha/beta balance. Push/pull. TRP worldview is that a woman's basic instinctual mating needs pull her in two different directions - a high-value, genetically fit mate, but also a mate who will stick around to support a pregnancy and offer paternal investment. A little bit of alpha - cocky/funny negging, making a good showing in public, receiving IOIs - requires a little bit of beta - snuggling, declarations of love, etc. The alpha lets her know she's got a catch, a high-value mate, the beta let…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/02/14 04:09 AM
12

Consider: if your brain was designed to BP spec, you'd look at the RP spec and think it was weird and cringeworthy (and possibly hopelessly immoral).
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/14 09:17 PM
2

Ah - didn't make myself entirely clear - you wouldn't want mating "equality" in the Marxist sense, you'd want to optimize for different factors - more for (say) intelligence or other civilization-supporting dimensions. You'd certainly (I would think) want to remove hybristophilia from female attraction.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/14 09:08 PM
7

I think this is highly dependant on short-term vs. long-term mates. Another way of putting it: short-term is based on pure attraction, long-term is based on more "intellectualized" factors (but includes attraction to some degree).
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/14 09:01 PM
18

Basically, I think the TRP model of human attraction is mostly true, but I think it sucks - that is, it leaves a lot of worthwhile people lonely because they don't fulfill evolutionary constraints that are no longer even useful. Seeking socially dominant males no longer makes sense in a world with a gov't monopoly on use of force and seeking a specific waist-to-hip ratio in women no longer makes sense in a world with medical interventions during childbirth - but both sexes seem stuck with them. …
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/14 07:54 PM
1

A good start is Abrahamic religious texts, which are full of instructions for women. Excellent example - I note the bible prescribes women "submit" to their husbands and that husbands "love" their wives. Another way of putting this, by the way, is that women were historically valued for things for things outside their control, and men were historically valued for things within their control. I think you overestimate how much control men have over their wealth and status - top-tier men become suc…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/14 04:17 PM
2

Citation, please (not that I don't trust you - but I'm curious as to which countries and which other conditions hold)
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/14 03:57 PM
2

Thanks and I'm very sorry your brother went through that.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/14 03:55 PM
1

Women have been expected to cater to men in the domestic sphere-- provide them, in fact, with selfless love and consideration. Correction - women have been expected to cater to their families in the domestic sphere. Women's role in the family = love, but the overworked dad = absent, distant, even though his overwork provides for the family. Unacknowledged love. In thinking/reading about this, I think another way to look at this is women have tended to be valued intrinsically (beauty, reproductiv…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/14 03:47 PM
2

The question is, motivated by what? A low-effort life is a quite rational choice, if you perceive a high-effort one as being a huge gamble. I sense you aren't fully grokking what's happening here: men aren't looking at women succeeding in the workforce, throwing a tantrum, and taking their ball and going home. They're looking at divorce stats - hell, they were probably raised by a divorced mom to begin with - and making a calculated choice to shrug their shoulders and simply opt out. Men don't w…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/14 02:55 PM
2

Maybe, but ultimately, men & women need to transact on some level to raise kids, and I'm not confident that arrangements outside "traditional-ish" marriage will provide the same benefits.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/14 02:46 PM
0

Going on my reading list. This sounds very congruent with my current position on gender. In particular, I've been reading about women's resistance and lack of comfort with men's "intrusion" into the domestic sphere (the first time the child cries out for dad instead of mom - it's a heartbreaking moment for mom)
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/14 02:37 PM
0

I agree with that list of qualities, but I don't think they are inherently feminine. Esp. "investment" - father's have always been highly invested - the myth of the "distant father" is, in fact, the father who overworks to provide a better life for his children, which is investment. I believe we can leverage the presence of women in the workforce to more gender equality at home, which means more present fathers. Subjectively, even though there are challenges, I've found it pretty easy to fill th…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/14 02:24 PM
10

Yup, this is basically true. Unless they belonged to the top 0.5% (or whatever), men didn't feel respected or needed at work - being in the workforce wasn't, for most men, an expression of self-actualization, it was just something they needed to do. But they could go home and be respected and needed there - in fact, that was the whole point of suffering through a job he didn't like much. The modern cultural stereotype of "husband" is some type of semi-competent, avoidant doofus in a man-cave. I …
/r/PurplePillDebate03/02/14 08:48 PM
6

Thanks - that's a fair point. I did inadvertently suggest eating disorders aren't to be taken seriously as mental illness - it wasn't a connotation I intended and I'm not qualified to make that judgement. I've read that body dysmorphia does exist in males, but they never see themselves as muscular enough - as opposed to thin enough.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/02/14 08:29 PM
1

Can you tie the idea of disposability more closely with the idea of love? I suppose it's a bit weird to use a term like "love" to refer to these huge aggregated cultural attitudes - but I suppose it comes down to we want to protect that which we love. Men have never been considered a class that requires protection - and I think this attitude continues today. construction of masculine identity (and the disadvantages involved) are frequent topic of feminist analysis I'm not very well-read in femin…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/02/14 08:11 PM
16

It's hard to see men as victims of anything, and easy to see women as victims of everything. Women suffering from eating disorders are seen as victims of portrayals of women, as not having agency in their choices (which is why the practise of self-starving is pathologized as a "disease"), as needing help. Men who (say) take steroids are seen as making a choice, who suffer adverse effects as a consequence of that choice, and why would we expend efforts saving people from the consequences of their…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/02/14 05:19 PM
2

There is, I think, an important sociological problem with standard hypergamy in modernity. It is this: The hypergamous instinct in women does not go away as the individual woman climbs the social ladder on her own (through attaining education, having a career, etc.). If it's correct, this means it's much harder for average men to distinguish themselves as viable mates for women generally. (Not an argument against women in the workforce or anything - but an acknowledgement that there may be costs…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/02/14 05:11 PM
-1

I see you have the "narcissist" part of the dark triad locked down ;)
/r/PurplePillDebate03/02/14 05:01 PM
0

Couldn't men also destroy the manosphere by only marrying women who they won't later divorce, leaving single mothers? a) much of the "single motherhood" stats are driven by women choosing to have children out of wedlock b) divorce stats are hard to unpick, but there's a fair argument that women's "dissatisfaction" with their chosen partner (along with perverse incentives in family court) are driving factors I guess I see it more as people choose bad partners Yup. Why doesn't TRP advocate marryin…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/02/14 05:00 PM
-1

Sure - but anecdotally (I haven't been in the dating market in a long time - but I know guys who are) - men & women who have been pursuing short-term sex or serial monogamy have learnt the wrong skills in how to interact in relationships for establishing and maintaining an LTR. This is a problem with delaying marriage that just no one is talking about.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/02/14 04:46 PM
1

Yes, of course it's different. So - right now, you seem to be playing the "who's more oppressed" game - or some sort of "quantitative analysis" of who had it worse, maybe. I've found it interesting and instructive to play a game of "how it balances." What this perspective tells us, I think, is that, historically, women had a deficit of respect and men had a deficit of love. Women's deficit of respect (or surplus of love) had the effect of keeping women from pursuing formal power - but it also ha…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/02/14 04:41 PM
-1

The problem is men who are basically good perceive women lavishing sexual attention on sociopaths. I mean, imagine it - you're a guy who did all the right stuff - got a stable career, ready to provide for a family - and you have to struggle to get a date on OKcupid will you watch as Charles Manson gets a hot girlfriend from inside prison and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev gets legions of groupies. Fuck me. To add insult to injury, as a reward for doing all the right stuff and getting a job, a chunk of your t…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/02/14 10:41 PM
2

I'd wear one, but I have curly hair, so it just ends up looking goofy. My wife, however, can pull off a fedora - it's pretty hot, actually.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/02/14 08:21 PM
17

I need consent to vomit or bleed on someone? Oh. Guess I've been doing it wrong. Seriously, though: When I first heard of it, the idea of needing to spell out that both participants need to actively or enthusiastically consent to sexual activity seemed like the product of a culture full of the mentally ill. I mean, who doesn't know you should only fuck people who want to fuck? Until I came to understand "hook-up culture." So - you put a bunch of college students, away from parental oversight for…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/02/14 06:40 AM
6

My answer, in short: we're adaptation executors not fitness maximizers. A prediction based on this: cultural changes have reached, or soon will reach, diminishing returns on shifting us away from (what I propose are) our biological dispositions. There will be no "approach equality" between the sexes. Why? While women may be socialized to not mind being the "aggressor," they will continue to be much more selective about whom they aggress and will experience high rates of success - while men will …
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/14 03:04 PM
3

I am really, really sorry that happened to you. I've never been the victim of infidelity, or been forcibly separated from my children, but I imagine it is monstrously painful. If I may, from your post, you still seem to have a lot of unprocessed pain and anger. I hope you come to let go of that.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/01/14 03:25 AM
5

You've presented a model for choosing a wife based a Bernoulli Urn-type selection process. Which is OK as far as it goes, but fails to capture a whole ream of the dynamics of how infidelity happens in a marriage. Go to Athol's blog and check out the "Cheating and Infidelity" tag here - he's written a lot about this and I've watched this stuff play out on his forum a bunch of times - it really does get pretty predictable. Here's the thing: TRP presents a few core concepts - abundance mentality, o…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/14 09:47 PM
2

I'd say one salient difference is this (no across all, but most): Girls' narrative fantasies are focused on their relation to high-status men - pointedly, being chosen by one. (Shrek may appear to buck this trend, but I'd argue Shrek is the product of a culture of "status-reversal"). I'm not sure it matters whether or not she was "really a princess all along" (as in Snow White, Sleeping Beauty) or she was made one (Cinderella, the Little Mermaid). Also: falling in love with low-status despite hi…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/14 03:50 PM
3

Yes, of course there is. In survival-focused culture, women are best exploited in the domestic sphere, because that is where they are best protected, and where they can fulfill their primary purpose for survival-based culture, having children (because in survival-focused culture, population growth is important). In survival-focused culture, men are best exploited doing dangerous & dirty work needed by their culture - labouring in large-scale civilization-supporting projects, soldiering, and gene…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/14 04:28 AM
8

I've had my worldview genuinely challenged here, which is great.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/14 03:40 PM
1

Even if I accept that culture is limited to humans and higher primates, how are you teaching this conclusion? Are you suggesting that the only possible options are instinct or culture? What about learning, which is one of the primary causes of cross cultural behaviors? To answer your questions backward: I think learning has a lot to do with how jealousy & mate guarding works, particularly in higher primates, I think there are behaviours which are "instinct-y" and "less instinct-y" which have to …
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/14 03:39 PM
1

I am shooting for "good parent," so... re: SMBC - Heh. We'll see if marketing lego for girls changes anything ;) (The lego in our house only seems to get played with when boys visit)
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/14 01:44 AM
1

Oh - I certainly wasn't arguing that. My basic philosophy (based on my nativist bias) is to let them inform me of their preferences and then encourage development in whatever direction they want to go in. It's very much my job to stay out of their way as much as possible. But, if I can give a little push in the direction of STEM-type interests that's something I'd be interested in (at the moment I'm modelling this for them just by chatting about interesting stuff).
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/14 10:54 PM
1

OK, thanks - I'll concede that skepticism is a reasonable position to hold. By "control my anticipation" - I mean, if I were in a position of having to design policies based on probabilistic assessments of the aggregate evidence, what would I do? How do I operationalize the knowledge? (I have somewhat personal motives at stake - I'm raising two girls)
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/14 08:00 PM
1

This is an area that I think RP should be more descriptive, less prescriptive. There are spectrums of D/s/switch - they may skew towards traditional gender norms - but I'm not a fan of dictating preferences, and most people get pretty open-minded when there's strong mutual attraction. (I'm a switch, with an occasional preference of masochism w/out submissiveness)
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/14 07:15 PM
1

I'm not sure if that aligns with paleolithic human social structures. Human bands didn't have decision makers or leaders. They operated on consensus and cooperation. Institutional hierarchy was rejected. This claim is... controversial. Institutional hierarchies didn't exist in the Pleistocene, obviously, but men, in the absence of formal hierarchies, will tend to naturally align themselves into an informal task-based hierarchy with a leader. This is how male status is conferred, generally based …
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/14 06:56 PM
13

Thanks for this - really is a "consistently applied standards" fail on the part of folks who deploy these kinds of insults. As a socially shy late-bloomer myself, I have a lot of empathy for people at the bottom of the attractiveness ladder. I'm sorry to say this, but men especially. So, it didn't feel from the inside like I was "overvaluing sex" due to social conditioning or whatever - it felt like there was something deeply wrong and repulsive about me. Consistent rejection and failure in the …
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/14 07:35 AM
3

Presumption of 50/50 child custody in family court is low hanging fruit IMO.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/14 07:12 AM
1

The key to the puzzle is to understand "alpha" and "beta" as divergent sexual strategies: (Perhaps gross oversimplification follows - there are mixed strategies): alpha = lots of short-term, one-off encounters = lots of kids, but lower probability of survival for each kid due to low paternal investment beta = long-term partner = fewer kids, higher probability of survival for each due to high paternal investment Mixed strategies: higher alpha, lower beta = long-term paternal investment with oppor…
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/14 07:50 PM
1

Animals (except for higher primates) don't have culture, so the fact that animals mate guard is evidence of a mate guarding instinct, which likely continues in humans. If there is a mate guarding instinct in humans, the cultural expressions of jealousy & mate-guarding aren't exact representations of the instinct - but the cultural expressions serve to satisfy the instinct (among other functions).
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/14 03:08 PM
1

Re: Sperber & Wason, Hawthorne, modularity Thanks - I haven't kept up with the reading in this subject very well. At this point, I'm basically asking questions cause I'm trying to figure out how an "unconscious learning" hypothesis should control my anticipation. It seems really hand-wavy to me right now, without much in the way of positive evidence.
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/14 02:43 PM
2

The base of the pyramid of civilization (the creation & maintenance of roads, electrical grid, sewage & waste disposal systems, large construction projects, etc.) is made up of men who produce more then they consume. The central motivating factor that drives these men to do the indispensable triple-D jobs (dirty, dangerous & drudgery) is the ability to support and care for families. In this way, beta male fatherhood is primarily a civilization supporting lifestyle. This is why I consider minimal…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/14 10:07 PM
1

Ya, I think there needs to be a sense of etiquette re-established in modern mating rituals and opportunities. That said: I have the impression that some of the bitterness comes from being shot down rudely a few too many times. That may be part of the story, but it's certainly not the whole story. The bitterness is due (by my read) to systematic mating failures, at every level of the process, from approach rejection, to friendzoning, to divorce.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/14 09:20 PM
0

Be attracted to more people. (That's meant to sound absurd)
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/14 02:39 AM
0

It could be said if the other person doesn't get what they want, and they've stopped complaining, you've "won".
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/14 01:53 AM
1

If stats show that women were happier in the 1950s then they are now, does that mean those that prefer it to be like the 1950s are on to something in terms of what benefits women?
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/14 01:47 AM
2

Things like birth control & condoms also dictate that women should be incredibly liberal and easy going about who they sleep with - they shouldn't be hypergamous and try to get the best deal all the time. Apologies for repeating myself - but technology doesn't require men or women to overcome their natural, irrational preferences.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/14 01:42 AM
1

I agree in a weak evidence sorta way. That's why I bolstered my claim with unconscious & animal mate-guarding.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/14 01:30 AM
1

I lean towards the biological Good - we're not far apart on this, then. Potentially none at all, I would imagine. Having a baby after you've been alive for a few decades doesn't, for example, affect how you understand gravity up until that point (and probably afterwards). ...and on mating decisions? ...inter- and intra-sex social structures? ...preferred day-to-day activities? You are right that it doesn't overly much change our approach to abstract physics problems. Both explanations predict th…
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/14 01:28 AM
0

What makes this a shaming statement? In my opinion, people aren't entitled to sex. Ya, that was a poor choice of words on my part - and it's a true statement. The problem I have with it is it's an incredibly callous conversation-stopper.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/01/14 12:56 AM
1

Thanks for that - I didn't mention evo psych so I'm not sure why it came up? Do you know if all matrilineal cultures have a mating structure similar to Mosuo? 16 cultures sounds more like "exception to the rule" to me. One interesting thing the Muoso and bonobos have in common: geographic isolation. Your argument on this sounds very much like "Sex at Dawn." This book has been heavily criticized in academia. This is particularly damning IMO.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/01/14 12:30 AM
15

In my personal life, I'm pretty much getting what I want from the women in it. On a cultural/social level, I'd like to see the following (my views probably don't jive with TRP on every point): If you (collectively) delay marriage and spend your 20's letting your hypergamy run wild pursuing short-term encounters, men are naturally going to want a piece of that action. Please stop shitting on socially shy men who express frustration with this state of affairs, or who study game to try and better t…
/r/PurplePillDebate24/01/14 12:01 AM
6

I think TRP's model of female sexual attraction is basically correct... ...but it's important to recognize women don't make decisions based on attraction alone. I think TRP's core philosophy of self-improvement for men is great... ...but the focus on outward behaviours and "game" can be merely a programme for turning co-dependants into narcissists. Developing "inner game" and dealing with core psychological issues is also important. I broadly agree with TRP's attack on mainstream culture's failu…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/14 05:27 PM
1

Citation, please. Sexual jealousy is on the list of human universals There is some evidence that men sub-consciously increase mate-guarding behaviour during their partner's ovulatory phase here Sexual jealousy and mate-guarding is expressed in many non-human animals.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/14 04:59 PM
2

Of course, since the evidence is largely in favour of a cultural explanation of gender differences (mostly due to the longer history, and the ability to perform more rigorous experiments), it is an extreme position to suggest that gender differences are equally influenced by biology and culture. You haven't shown any such thing - if anything, you've found reasons to reject any evidence which conflicts with your preferred hypothesis. Your post is just covered in motivated skepticism. they ignore …
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/14 04:34 PM
0

As it relates to "honour": "Honour" is, in the strict, survival-based-society, historical definition, a mechanism to circumscribe intra-tribe/group conflict between males. There has to be a way to determine the pecking order, without too much costly violence between the male members of the group. So it's not so much women can't have honour, they just don't qualify under this definition. Women have their own ways of determining social pecking-order (which social scientists have modelled as a "cra…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/14 02:54 AM
1

You're right, there's a plethora of choices to be made - but most of those choices can be roughly classified into "civilization building" and "parasitic" choices. It's a serious question: is what we are incentivizing people to do the former, or the latter? I can't really take your argument that men shouldn't consider the risks and consequences of divorce seriously.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/01/14 03:07 PM
1

Ha! Well... Nobody's ever seen my etchings...
/r/PurplePillDebate21/01/14 03:04 AM
0

"Come up so I can show you my etchings." Old as the hills.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/01/14 01:58 AM
2

Ya, that was my read of what Sapolsky was saying.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/14 06:21 AM
8

What's not mentioned in the OP which I think is highly relevant: The story here is that alpha baboons, as they age, get kicked off the throne (so to speak), and then get ganged up on by all the lower ranking males as a sort of retribution for being such a prick while on top. Saplosky (the neuroscientist who studies baboon societies) noticed that half the males would leave the troop and join another where no one knew them - so they wouldn't be constantly getting that crap kicked out of them. But …
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/14 05:57 AM
1

The choice is between maximum effort loser (cubicle jockey, high probability of divorce eventually, seeing your kids every other weekend, with the threat of debtor's prison... sorry, "contempt of court" if you miss a support payment) and minimum effort loser (if not Roosh, then video games, part-time work, and sarging on the weekend)
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/14 03:14 AM
3

I'm a Freedom Feminist. Freedom Feminism (suggested by Christina Hoff Sommers) is an attempt to re-synthesize conservative and progressive feminism. Here are some of it's assertions: -Affirms for women what it affirms for everyone: dignity, fairness and legal equality of the sexes -Opposes efforts to impose on women (or men) stereotypical social roles, yet recognizes that men and women will typically employ their equal freedoms in distinctive ways -Asserts that efforts to obliterate gender roles…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/14 09:52 PM
1

Do you have a boss at work? Do you still respect yourself? I think you don't understand how pervasive dom/sub relationships are in society in general. Here - that's how dominantion actually works. Note how the respect flows in that relationship.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/14 03:29 PM
3

Maybe I missed something - where does that study mention submissiveness? (Some of those are hilarious - women orgasm as much as men but only in a committed relationship. Women like casual sex as much as men, but only with famous men. Women report as many partners as men but only when hooked up to fake lie detectors. What gender differences?)
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/14 06:14 AM
1

Fair point - I'll revise my view slightly - if there is a social contract such that men offer token, "social-signalling"-type chivalry in exchange for token, "social-signalling"-type deference from women, that would probably be beneficial. The problem then would be getting coordination on such behaviour. Male hyperagency is still a problem in bigger-picture issues wrt legal & social issues IMO.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/14 02:13 AM
5

Or perhaps it's an acknowledgement that you seek an idealized, pure state of equality that's neither possible or desirable by both genders. I... don't know where you got the impression that I hold to that idea. Rolling back progressive gender equality would mean rejecting female applicants for college or forcing women back in the kitchen. That is not going to happen. Agreed, but if modern progressive notions of gender have to stop short of pure equality (as I think they do) they surely have to s…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/14 01:21 AM
4

Quoth Ironwood: Chivalry (capitalized to distinguish it from mere manners) is a warriors code. Indeed, it is the code which shaped the vision of masculinity for Europe for centuries, until effective smallarms made it archaic. Archaic or not, Chivalry is still the core of our military system, where terms like Honor and Duty (two hallmarks of the code) still mean something... at the root of Chivalry is the capacity to beat the living shit out of someone. Quoth Kay (in the comments): Most important…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/14 12:40 AM
5

From wikipedia: Roosh graduated from the University of Maryland in 2001[6] with a degree in microbiology. In other words, he had ambitions to "better society" but (by my read of some of his past blog posts) when he took a good, hard look at where that was going to get him, he decided it was in his best interest to write books about sex tourism instead. It's like people respond to incentives or something.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/14 12:28 AM
0

I apologize - it is a bit of a slog. But it's a fascinating slog.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/14 05:21 PM
1

I'm not a reactionary myself, but you should read Mencius Moldbug's "Letter to an Open Minded Progressive." It shines a bright light in some dark corners of progressivist thought.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/01/14 07:50 AM
3

To pursue the same line of reductio ad absurdum, as long as only a minority are slaves and disagree with slavery, that is consistent with your suggestion.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/14 04:29 PM
0

Why not change human behavior to create a society we all like? I agree. Let's start by changing women to enjoy being raped. (I am obviously not serious, but am trying to reductio your ad absurdum - if human nature were that malleable, it wouldn't be ridiculous to solve the rape problem by changing women's preferences wrt rape. I also intend to highlight your passing over the issue of creating a "society we all like" as if our preferences could be easily aligned. I'm not a rapist, but I'm pretty …
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/14 03:15 PM
1

Dave Foley's (Canadian) divorce was also a complete horrorshow. Apologies for contributing to the threadjack.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/14 03:02 PM
1

Ya, pretty much agree with this overall, wrt to tone. After all, our life always expresses the results of our dominant thoughts. The benefit of Mark's approach in Models IMO is that it better addresses root causes of insecurity, lack of confidence and co-dependency issues. It also has the benefit of not relying on this aspiration of being absolutely unflappable and emotionless. I think he's overly skeptical towards anything anti-feminist, though. Female solipsism, for eg, is a thing (although th…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/14 02:40 PM
-1

To be fair to me, I said groups tend towards rationality rather than groups = rationality. To tether this back, I've seen enough skeptical voices (and been one myself) on TRP and in the manosphere to satisfy me that it's not just nutballs. One can never type "nutballs" too many times. I have it on a macro.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/14 02:23 PM
-1

Right - so in any randomly selected group of people, you expect reasonable people, and nutballs. And the reasonable people question the nutballs hypotheses (the nutballs never question their own hypotheses). That's why groups are rational. (Of course, there's always the risk of groups of nutballs, but note how "evaporative cooling" works in groups from my example above - the nutballs peel off if a significant portion of the group is rational. Or, if it's nutballs, the reasonable peel off. Trick …
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/14 01:40 AM
2

Also not to spam, but you guys know who Earl Silverman is, right?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/14 12:53 AM
-1

I'm pretty careful ;)
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/14 12:49 AM
3

Ya, pretty fuckin' worried, actually...
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/14 12:36 AM
1

Y'know, you're right - I stand corrected. Let's say they achieved important subgoals towards achieving their goals. I don't know why anyone would assume that groups of human beings usually tend towards rationality. Would you rather have a jury trial, or a single judge?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/14 12:17 AM
0

Re: science - Try applying that standard universally. Do you feel you have to understand how the interactions of quarks produce the laws of aerodynamics before getting on a plane? Do you have to understand how individual neurons contribute to the formation of speech to talk? If we don't have access to the scientific standard of knowledge we have to make due with rational, probabilistic standards. (By the by, I've produced several scientific papers when available which I consider evidence for my …
/r/PurplePillDebate09/01/14 12:11 AM
1

Another way of phrasing this may be that relationship success hinges on you being more invested in your self-perception then you are in others' perception of you (h/t Mark Manson). My experience with applying TRP to my marriage is that it's been very much an inner journey and a struggle with myself, as much as an external reality-testing experiment. So, I agree!
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/14 02:36 PM
-2

But those experiments have little value because of how poor they are. How do you know this? there's no way to corroborate the results. It's just a bunch of anonymous individuals on the internet. Yes, true. If everybody's lying, then it's just a huge circle-jerk of douchebags and we can safely ignore them. If there are a few liars but mostly honest folk, the liars don't matter much. If there are mostly liars and a few honest folk, the honest folk won't be fooled for very long, and peel off to lea…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/14 05:45 AM
6

Thank you - it only makes sense, I think, in modernity as opposed to traditional gender roles. You look at feminism - wanting women in powerful positions & high-status jobs, concerns about sexual harassment & objectification, emphasis on educational attainment and academic credibility - this all reads as wanting respect. MRAs - fairness in divorce, the workplace death gap, disposable males, selective service - all lack of love. TRP - sex = love, "A woman is incapable of loving you the way you wa…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/14 03:13 AM
1

Sure, except TRP isn't reasoning inside a vacuum, it's running experiments and updating on the results, which is how "game" and PUA got started in the first place. The fine examination of words and epistemology is well and good, but ultimately, TRP stands on it's success or failure of helping men achieve certain goals. If it isn't useful for that, it's update the beliefs or regression to the mean and die. Which may still happen, I grant, but you at least have to admit this standard tethers us so…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/14 01:53 AM
17

Men want more love, women want more respect. (Note an original thought but I think central to all gender conflict)
/r/PurplePillDebate08/01/14 01:29 AM
1

It's a multi-faceted problem for sure. The economic problem is partially a matter of the disappearing manufacturing base in the West, and partially a problem of incentives for men. The social problem folds into the incentive problem, as married men (or breadwinner women) are highly motivated to produce more than they consume. And the nurturing spouse can also contribute part-time labour. In this way, the nuclear family works to produce a strong economy. If men make their preferences known (and a…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/14 06:17 PM
7

The point is, the definition excludes male victims (when the perpetrators are female). I do agree that non-penetrative rape/assault is about equally traumatizing.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/14 05:59 AM
4

Humbly suggest you read this. Interestingly, there are a few pick-up concepts that are straight from this book, like "social proof" (preselection in PUA).
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/14 03:31 AM
9

Honestly, if you can't see why it would bother the fuck out of a man to find an old gangbang tape featuring a wife who's sexually conservative with him, you just aren't really trying to understand men. That post is a horror show. I read the follow-up to that post. They are trying to repair the relationship, and she's agreed to be more uninhibited with him, which is a good-faith effort on her part. So good on 'em.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/14 11:46 PM
9

That.. doesn't sound like any MRA theory that I've encountered (and I'm reasonably well-travelled - regularly following AVFM & /r/mensrights). Most MRAs want to free men from strict gender roles - including the roles of protecting and provisioning for women. Most MRAs see feminism as granting rights to women, without the attendant responsibilities that traditionally men have to fulfill. Fun fact: the ERA was shut down by Phyllis Schlafly, who campaigned against it with the acronym STOP (Stop Tak…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/14 06:07 PM
0

Fully agree with you wrt black inequality. In fact, it's germane to this discussion as much of what's most keeping people in poverty from generation to generation is the breakdown of the nuclear family. There's been some talk in the manosphere that what's happened to urban blacks it's what's in store for all of us if the current "gender conflict" continues to trend the way it is now. And there is tons of consternation among successful black women about finding a "good black man" to marry. Manosp…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/14 05:27 PM
1

Cool. Let's call the two sides "gender progressives" and "gender conservatives" for simplicities sake. The main thing to recognize is, both sides of the argument are interested in human well-being, and want humans to be happy. I'd say the "gender progressives" think a huge source of human unhappiness is circumscribed gender roles. They see gender roles as entirely imposed externally, so the only way to free us from them is to change the culture that imposes them. "Gender conservatives" think gen…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/14 05:35 AM
1

I want to dig into that some more I'm game. The popular use of the term "heteronormative" in this thread makes me want to break down the argument thus: There is a position that people are formed by culture. Change the culture, change the people. There is a position that culture accretes around people's natural inclinations. Change the culture, the people end up unhappy, because there is a disconnect between how they feel and what the culture demands of them. Is this a fair way to frame the discu…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/14 04:12 PM
2

I'll say this: as open to interpretation as these studies may be for human mating, cuckolding & mate-guarding are common mating patterns in the animal kingdom that have been studied extensively. The simplest hypothesis is that humans also deploy strategies of opportunistic cheating, and have evolved methods for doing so. As to why this might necessitate unconscious attraction triggers - well, there was no Violence Against Women act operating in the ancestral environment.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/14 07:30 PM
5

TRP teaches that men basically have their attractiveness in their own hands, pretty much anyone can become an alpha and start banging hot 18 year olds, right? Very much not right - anyone who says this is wrong. CH has a post on this called "What Game Can Do" - to summarize, an Omega dreg who would've died a virgin can use game to get a few ONS's or flings with less attractive girls, a higher beta can upgrade to an Alpha, etc. Game basically makes the SMP closer to true assortive mating. where d…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/14 07:22 PM
1

a total of two reputable studies Incorrect. Gangestad & Simpson have an entire body of work on this subject. The Kinsey Institutde has done some work on it. Martie Haselton has done a lot of work on this also.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/14 07:08 PM
1

My daugher used to be afraid of going in deep water. So I put her in a comfort zone by teaching her to move her arms and legs in a very specific manner. Now, amazingly, she's very confident in the water! Do you see?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/14 10:25 AM
2

The short answer is the dual mating hypothesis.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/14 06:22 AM
2

Relax, be kind, be sincere, appreciate and recognize that woman are complex individuals just like you These may be necessary, but not sufficient, conditions for getting laid in the modern SMP. If they were sufficient, sex would be equally distributed among guys and TRP wouldn't exist - it's just not very difficult to be relaxed, kind, sincere, &etc. non-human safes that can be cracked with certain words or actions This is (by my read of PUA theory) because men who tend to fail in the SMP are sys…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/01/14 06:19 AM
4

Red pill helped me with confidence issues & unleash my inner alpha. MMSL (purple pill?) helped with communication, my ego-investment wrt sex. The blue pill (I see it said a lot) has no position so I don't see how that's supposed to be helpful? (Edit: It should be said, there were a variety of external issues which caused the deadbedroom, we've never been truly adversarial - always willing to mutually work on issues etc. - but we have different drives, which means I have to be a little patient an…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/14 12:49 AM
1

I don't think you realize how bad it is out there in terms of the advice men in bad relationships receive. Check this out - this is what a man can expect from many mainstream marriage counsellors. This anecdote is not a one-off - I've seen this type of story again and again around marriage forums.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/14 12:43 AM
0

I suggest a resolution using a Universally Preferable Behaviour: All associations which are voluntary are by definition morally positive. If that's agreed upon as a UPB, we're done.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/14 12:06 AM
0

Being able and willing to communicate one's own desires is Human Relationships 101. I put this in the category of "easy to proscribe, hard to execute" - kind of like "be confident." It was just good, old-fashioned standing up for himself. Take a gander - this guy basically has made a career advising men who are incapable of drawing boundaries. It's an oft-recommending book in the manosphere. I wasn't the worst niceguy in the world, but I needed to read that book. TRP tends to treat these negativ…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/14 12:00 AM
0

I think what's controversial is whether it's malleable or not.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/01/14 11:47 PM
1

I ended up regretting it afterwards Out of curiosity, was this because he made poor decisions, or because of the loss of boundaries on your part? He got angry or offended any time I wouldn't defer to his decision He sounds weak and insecure. he needed someone to tell him what to do He sounds weak and insecure. My current partner and I are both sexual/BDSM switches, and very compatible in that area. It's funny how a couple's sex life can mirror 'real life' - I wonder how common that is? Based on …
/r/PurplePillDebate02/01/14 12:33 AM
2

You're right about the 'egalitarian' thing Thanks for that. I guess...choosing not to exercise power is different than not having it. The submissive partner is only as submissive as they choose to be. They have no obligation to be submissive. I agree wrt autonomy - a person's happiness is linked to how much autonomy they feel they have in their job, relationships, whatever. Whatever power structures exist in the relationship have to be roughly understood and mutually agreed upon. The problem is,…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/01/14 10:57 PM
2

From the way I've seen relationships where the man is "in charge" described by TRP, they often come off sounding like equal relationships. For example, the man is the "leader", but a good leader takes his subordinate's opinions into account when making a decision...which sounds, for all intents and purposes, like an equal relationship where both partners trust each other and come to a mutual decision. The "final say" of the leading man is more of a ceremonial position than one of any practical p…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/01/14 05:22 PM
2

I live in Toronto, and we're just recovering from an ice storm - about 300k homes were without power for days due to trees falling on power lines. In my area, most of our side streets were closed off for the same reason. I wonder what motivates a guy to spend days in sub-zero weather on a cherry-picker working with a chainsaw around high-voltage electrical wire? Anyways, ya, the marriage strike. I hope the optimistic reading of stats and the sanguine attitudes are well-placed. Well, either that,…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/13 05:27 AM
1

That, dependant on the shape of the curve, he has a reasonable chance at locking down a virgin, if that's important to him - particularly if he looks to younger women (assuming he's of an age where that's a possibility). You can't have negative partners, so I'm assuming there's some skew there. Or, if virginity isn't a deal-breaker, he can trade-off one or two previous partners for some other desired attribute - although attention should be paid to the quality of the previous relationships. If p…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/13 12:22 AM
5

If he wants to have an LTR with a special lady (a single, unique individual), then what's the point of using averages? Because what you're describing is an outlier, which is still a statistical artifact, which still falls under the purview of maths and averages. Making the transition from slutting it up to an LTR is a high-stakes game - especially for men in the current legislative climate wrt divorce. Knowing what you're up against in terms of "Eat Pray Love"-frivorce culture and knowing what t…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/13 07:04 PM
2

Well, the main reason people (mostly women) divorce is "dissatisfaction" - what's called in the manosphere "I'm not haaaaaaapy". So there is a massive gulf between what we - as a society - profess about marriage and what we do.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/13 05:09 PM
3

See my post to /u/LadyJellyBeans for an explanation of TRPs use of stats & probability in dating. Basically, there are some attraction triggers are tightly clustered around certain characteristics. You're one guy looking for one woman. If sex were evenly distributed amongst all the guys who were interested in having it, it would go a long way to supporting your argument. It seems obvious to me that this isn't the case: there are "winners" and "losers" in the SMP, and there are reasons why this h…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/13 04:58 PM
6

Your argument depends on the kurtosis of the distributions discussed. If the curves are wider in shape, yes, you'll find more people who deviate from the average. The fact of the matter is, there are certain female attraction triggers that have very, very narrow distributions. Being attracted to confidence is one. Social status is another. Height (relative to the woman's height) is another. There are outliers for all these things, but conforming to the average is more common. Yes, there are fact…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/13 04:46 PM
13

(Non-snarkily) Suggest you watch the Khan academy's explanation of the Central Limit theorem here - cause frankly it genuinly seems like you don't understand how TRP uses statistics and probability in the way they do (I'm no statistician or math wiz, but I know a bad argument when I see it). Statistics isn't some weird way to dehumanize people, it's just math, and the fields that study human nature - social science, psychology, etc. - rely heavily on them. This argument against TRP should be cal…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/13 12:25 AM
1

It is well-known that low-t is associated with low sex drive in both men & women. It is well-known that men have a much higher concentration of testosterone in their blood. Did society cause that?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/12/13 07:15 PM
2

Men can suffer from low-t, but it's not a general thing.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/13 07:50 PM
1

The problem is, lack of attraction doesn't feel like lack of attraction. It just feels like "don't feel like having sex tonight" - but a long string of "don't feel like having sex tonight"'s indicates a fundamental lack of attraction. This is exempting obvious external factors like a death in the family or whatever. The problem is, communication is often inviting the unattracted partner to suggest "fake solutions" to the problem, which their brain "thinks" will fix the issue, but really just mak…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/13 06:23 PM
3

This is true, but additional information is needed: Men have 10x the amount of testosterone, making them want sex with an intensity which women can only understand in the abstract. I don't know how much you want kittens, but I bet men want sex more.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/13 06:07 PM
1

Depends on context. In a casual situation, a freeze-out is absolutely manipulative and passive aggressive. Usually LMR in this situation is understandable anxiety. In an LTR situation, where one partner is continually rejecting the other, walking away from the situation may be preferable to hanging around being butthurt, or getting into a fight about it. Of course, continual rejection is a symptom of a deeper issue, and usually one where you can't "communicate" your way out of it. You've got to …
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/13 05:55 PM
4

If the person is emotional beyond reason, the only proper response it to walk away. Continue the discussion only if it can be continued rationally. If they get violent, and leaving's not an option because of children in the house or something, record it on your phone. "How to disagree" is an important relationship skill - and you both have to hold each other accountable. I've been called out on childish things said in the heat of argument. I didn't like it, but, well, she was right. I've had to …
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/13 05:27 PM
0

I wish I could find it, but Mark Manson had a really good little speech which was a set of reassurances involving consent, condoms and anxiety. It's in the book "Confessions of a Pickup Artist Chaser" by Clarisse Thorne. I mean, if you view "pushing through" as trying to acquire consent without acknowledging genuine issues like anxiety, ya, it's pretty immoral. The problem is, pushing boundaries is (IMO) a healthy and necessary part of many sexual interactions, there's a right way and wrong way …
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/13 05:02 PM
0

Don't think you'd want to have sex with them either way...
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/13 04:40 PM
1

I'm not sure what to make of the fact that you think that a man should choose a partner with honesty and maturity Er. That I've seen & read about the results of bad mate selection? The manosphere is full of horror stories, honestly. Aaaarg. Nooo. You're making this all about appearance! It's not about appearance! Why did you assume that the only quality worth selecting for is appearance? For short-term encounters, desirability is strongly linked to appearance for men. I know it's different for w…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/13 07:11 AM
0

These are two very different things - considering what's at stake for a man in an LTR (divorce, cuckoldry, dv, false dv accusations, etc.). A man should optimize for qualities in a woman that contraindicate these possibilities - honesty, emotional maturity, low time preference, etc. OK, the thing about selectivity and casual sex is the math doesn't work. Say a man has 100 woman acquaintances, 2 of whom are willing to sleep with him (unfortunately, he has an eye in the middle of his forehead or s…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/13 04:47 AM
3

This may be a little retro of me, but the suggested tactic for LMR in the Mystery Method is the "freeze-out" - where you withdraw from the interaction and do something else (check your e-mail or whatever). Freeze-outs have an "ugh field" around them for me. But it's not begging or pleading.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/13 01:33 AM
3

TRP's opinion is that LMR is a result of societal pressure I don't know that this is TRPs take on it. I disagree with it either way. LMR is deeper than societal pressure, LMR has to do with a persons sociosexual restrictiveness. Basically, people who are sociosexually restrictive are going to be more reluctant to have sex with someone with whom they don't share an emotional connection, and so are more likely to get very nervous as sexual activity progresses. I suspect (but don't actually know) t…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/13 01:30 AM
3

A small point - no TRPer would ever suggest begging or pleading for sex. DLV.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/13 01:02 AM
5

I think the many of the problems these types of men face would be averted if they sought out the woman instead of a woman So, men are supposed to be more selective? Is that really your argument (no snark - honestly asking). A man will have no success if he asks random women for sex, while a woman will have some success if she asks random men, and this is supposed to prove women have it better? When it comes to the limited goal of acquiring short-term sex, yes, of course it does. I understand thi…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/12/13 12:51 AM
0

If you're so inclined, by the way, this is a biased but interesting of the subject (he interviews academics from both sides of the arguement)
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/13 07:46 PM
0

show me a country where people generally don't believe girls prefer dolls, boys prefer trucks, girls like pink, boys like blue, etc, and the gender norms still develop as you predict, and I'll accept that as evidence against the socialisation theory. I can't show you a whole country - but I've heard it told that the 60's counter-culture members believed this, they lived on communes (isolated communities), and they were shocked (shocked!) when their children expressed preferences for the "gender-…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/13 07:43 PM
0

You missed my point before that though, which is that people could refuse to accept a position. People can absolutely do that. Doing that didn't do me any favours, see below. anecdotes are not and cannot be considered evidence. I disagree - a single anecdote is very, very weak evidence. Statistics (in the social & political sciences) are just a collection of enough anecdotes to meet the law of large numbers. The strength of the evidence offered by anecdotes is updated the more those anecdotes me…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/13 06:25 PM
2

That's a good data point - thanks.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/13 10:21 PM
4

As a side note, 90% accuracy sounds impressive, until you consider the following model: Marriage happiness = frequency of lovemaking - frequency of quarrels Which has a predictive power of self-reported happiness approaching an excess of 90%. http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Live-In-A-Sexless-Marriage/2835517
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/13 09:03 PM
1

Did Gottman directly address a man's use of suggesting a potential affair as a method of re-engaging the woman's interest? I ask because maybe I didn't understand, but this post seems to have considerable inferential distance between the use of dread game and what Gottman is actually addressing, which seems to have more to do with day-to-day interactions. the single most reliable indicator of an unhappy relationship is one in which the couple displays negative affect reciprocity -- that is, the …
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/13 08:12 PM
1

The paradox can be resolved thus: -when there is relationship stress, negative emotions from a man is an indicator of his investment, which can make a woman feel more secure (in his willingness to fulfil a provision/protection role) -when a man is injured, a woman will harden her heart against him, due to his potentially being unable to fulfill his protection/provision role The impact on his ability to provide/protect is going to be the determinant factor on whether she perceives negative emotio…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/12/13 07:55 PM
1

To your #'d points: 1) The rules for individual relationships are complex, which is why there's kind of a feel-it-out process for every couple. But in the aggregate, what the dating market place is not (I assert) is random. It is ruled by the gods of probability and statistics. And where probability exists, there is the potential for maximization. 2) Yes, this is fair. Although throughout this discussion and elsewhere, I think I've been careful to state upfront what I thought the evidence was an…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/13 11:05 PM
2

patriarchal processes I don't know what this is. Concluding that they have innate differences is to bypass the entire scientific process. To be fair to me, I qualified with "probably." The fact that men in engineering don't face the same kind of scrutiny and sexual harassment women do in the field would explain at least some of the difference. Women faced scrutiny and sexual harassment in every academic field they broke into - why stop at engineering? Do modern women have less gumption then the …
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/13 10:09 PM
1

My understanding of null hypothesis testing is that you assume the null hypothesis in order to establish whether or not you have statistically significant evidence against it. The null hypothesis requires evidence to support or reject. When you run the numbers on the stats is where the rubber hits the road on evidence. My point is, if TRP has not met that strict standard of evidence, then neither has ~TRP, since no one's actually subjected either proposition to that form of rigorous analysis. If…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/13 09:46 PM
1

Why would they be? What's their reason for bias? My point was - naive cynicism. The problem with using "confirmation bias" as an argument is it's universally applicable. "Look, this apple dropped to the floor. Gravity!" "Confirmation bias!" You're not really engaging the other person's point. The principle still holds. If you really sucked with women before you started using TRP, then it stands that basically any approach to self improvement would increase you're success with women. Well, since …
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/13 09:31 PM
0

Twin studies indicate that (depending on what you're looking at) heritability accounts for 50% or more of the statistical variance in various traits. There are also a suite of abilities which are demonstrated at a very young age (too young to be learned) - tracking moving objects, inferring agency, even making moral judgements. Babies hours old will find and track faces. Human failed to teach syntactically correct sign-language to chimpanzees - implying that humans have some innate cognitive arc…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/13 09:11 PM
1

The intent is mutually consensual sex - this is assholish? Let's say it is. We used to have a structure in place to prevent assholish behaviour in the sexual marketplace - monogamy. In our progressive wisdom, we decided to do away with all that. Now, we've got what we've got, which is combat dating. A man who lacks a natural sense of charm or charisma now has a choice: accept his lot as a loser in the sexual marketplace, or trade off some morality for some sex. <Shrug> People respond to incentiv…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/13 08:12 PM
1

If it's stories from anonymous sources, I don't trust it. If someone isn't willing to put a face behind their story, then I have no reason to believe it's true. Most people on Reddit assume that RedPillWomen is a bunch of sock puppet men. They have every right to. Are these beliefs unbiased? Results relative to what? If you're starting point is 0, any strategy that involves any form of actually approaching women is going to get you results. Strangely enough, I did have interactions with women be…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/13 06:30 PM
1

Agreed. So: if you're forced to spend your entire childhood doing math problems, that'll tilt your brain away from novel-reading structures. Suppose you have a choice, and you can read some novels and do some math, and but you end up doing way more of one thing then the other. Did that choice come from nowhere? Random neural perturbations? Or does the choice to pursue math emerge from a preference for doing math, or a talent for it? And that talent or preference would correspond to some anatomic…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/13 06:28 PM
4

You can weight the thousands of yada as strongly or weakly as you wish. When the thousands of yada yada is congruent with my own experience, past & present, when it produces useful predictions in my own experience, and when it helps me get results, I choose to weight that very highly. Much of TRP qualifies for strong weighting based on that criteria (for me) - some has not.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/13 05:39 PM
0

It seems to me the point of contention is between anatomical differences and behaviour. But fine, I'll cede the point that genetics is not what we want to discuss, and we can talk about what's innate.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/13 05:35 PM
3

If I understand your argument correctly: Brain differences can be caused by genetic (innate) factors, or by environmental ones. (I agree with this) There are anatomical differences between male and female brains (I agree with this) Neuroscience cannot distinguish between anatomical differences due to innate factors, and anatomical differences due to environmental factors (I strongly disagree with this) Here's an argument: If the anatomical neurological differences between men & women where cause…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/13 02:48 PM
2

Feel free to hold whatever expectations you wish - like I said, I generally view high skepticism as a virtue. Here's the thing though - the null hypothesis also has to meet standards of evidence, and the mainstream view of gender and relationship dynamics only has it's designation of "conventional wisdom" going for it. There's no more scientific support for it then there is for TRP. In either case, your worldview is formed by what you choose to be skeptical about.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/13 02:28 PM
0

To answer your question below, one society that had reversed gender roles (women fight and kill each other for male attention, say) would be enough to pique my interest. In the meanwhile, in super-progressive countries like Sweden, gender differences on certain dimensions become more pronounced the more egalitarian the society is. There's also the known anatomical differences between male and female brains, and the new discovery that gender is associated with differences in how the neurons are c…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/13 05:10 AM
3

It's good to have high epistemic standards (no snark), but for those of us making decisions on how to live, we have to act on the info we have, not the info we wish we had. To put it another way, I remember reading an anecdote in a Steven Pinker book: he had baked a cake, changing the recipe a bit for three or four different ingredients. The cake ended up tasting better and being fluffier. The scientist in him wanted to isolate which change made the different to the taste and texture, but it wou…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/13 05:06 AM
0

You're assuming that it's an adaptation and that it exists to serve a purpose. The fact that it exists is evidence of both. Complexity doesn't just happen. That's an interesting theory, but if we look at actual trends, we don't really see that. Non-paternity events are generally around 1 to 3% in developed countries. The relevant thing to look at her would be "paternity fraud" in the evolutionary environment, but we don't have that data. We do know more women then men reproduced (that is - more …
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/13 10:00 PM
1

Well, a preference shift which coincides with times of heightened fertility is a complex adaptation (that is - it would be much simpler to have a consistently expressed preference). Complex adaptations (so sayeth evo biologists) exist to solve specific problems in the evolutionary environment. A human female in the evolutionary environment has two important problems to solve: mating with a male with the best genes possible, and acquiring paternal investment (because, the human brain being as big…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/13 09:35 PM
-1

No, I'm not a reactionary, and strict gender roles aren't going to realistically make a comeback. I don't know what exactly the future gender-social-contract looks like, I'm just saying "Here's how men are, incentive structures have to be designed with this in mind." If you forced me to state a preference, I would say the traditional notion of marriage works quite well, with modern progressive modifications of shared-parenting and shared-labour (ie. a "breadwinner/nurturer" paradigm). There does…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/13 07:09 PM
1

TRP & the manosphere & MMSL provide useful frameworks for achieving relationship goals. There's (IMO) weak-to-moderate scientific evidence that some of this framework has a biological component. In particular, women's mating preference shifts during ovulation is the strongest piece of evidence for TRP's model of female attraction. (NB. Not behaviour - although sometimes attraction percolates up to behaviour) Anecdotally, everything about my early relationship history was retrodicted by TRP's mod…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/13 06:49 PM
-1

Then what did you say? To fully unpack - civilization was built on social contracts between the genders that fulfill the requirements of both (ie. mongamy provides women with the man's excess labour - provisioning - & protection in exchange for an assortive mating structure which provides the man access to the woman's reproductive capability - even though he might not be the best man she would get under a polygamous structure). Basically, most of the preconditions that made monogamy very adaptiv…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/13 06:20 PM
-1

Why should society conform to masculinity? It shouldn't - that wasn't what I said. What you're describing is not what most people think of when they think of third wave feminism. I describe what I perceive. If what I perceive is in error, it's my problem. If what people think of feminism is divorced from feminism's actual effect on the world, it's theirs.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/13 05:04 PM
-1

Too many variables to pick out which tactics will lead to a "better society" or whatever based on tangled relationships between social status, testosterone and IQ. Speaking for myself, I just want a society that's comfortable with masculinity, and that has mechanisms in place for leveraging masculine preferences and traits into civilization-supporting activities. Kind of like the old patriarchal model, but with new technologies in place and a few of the stricter gender roles loosened. That is, i…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/13 03:23 PM
1

Any advice on how to draw and enforce boundaries like that? Check out Robert Glover's "No More Mr. Nice Guy" - it roughly comes down to ask for what you want unapologetically, don't agree to anything that doesn't serve your interests, and don't do "covert contracts." What I mean is, I don't like the idea of having this mindset/mind frame of being "above" women or other people. I like treating them as equals A commitment to egalitarianism is admirable, but social status is (IMO) hard-wired in you…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/13 11:50 PM
7

Fake it til you become it.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/13 11:47 PM
1

Someone who engages in this type of behavior is demonstrating low impulse control, high time preference, sociosexual unrestrictedness, and an avoidant attachment style. All these traits make it difficult to maintain a long-term relationship, which require exercising delayed gratification and controlling emotional impulses. It's not so simple as "breaking out of old habits." Behavior of this type really is a red flag for a bad LTR prospect. Also: selecting an LTR mate based on shared values is no…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/13 06:20 PM
1

In tournament species, there's one male who fucks all the females. That's really about all you need to know.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/13 06:06 PM
10

Red piller here, let me fix something for you: I don't want to act "alpha." I don't want to have to use "game". If you truly absorb the lessons of TRP, alpha isn't an "act." It's a state of being (I know how that sounds, but it's true). What I mean by that is that being an assertive person who draws and enforces strong personal boundaries effects how everyone in your life perceives and treats you, and that's what generates attraction. Mark Manson, in his book "Models" (highly recommended) descri…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/13 05:56 PM
1

Yup - women with poor impulse control, high time preference and who are thrill-seeking (ie. respond strongly to dopamine) tend more to go for bad boys. Not coincidentally I think, these traits are also associated with sociosexual unrestrictedness (promiscuity)
/r/TheRedPill12/12/13 08:17 PM
5

False dichotomy - I'm advocating for joint custody/shared parenting. Less optimal then nuclear family, but much less of a trainwreck then cutting the father out.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/13 01:19 AM
5

My experience as a father, and more importantly, the statistics, possibly even science, say otherwise...
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/13 12:22 AM
7

Frankly, the big risk is the emotional devastation of being separated from your children for all but every other weekend. The stats on this are, among contested custody cases, ~85% of the time full custody goes to the women. The divorce rate has been around 50% since at least the 80's. Now men are making a "rational choice to opt out?" As Stephen Molyneux puts it here - "...grow up, now stand in this nuclear shadow where daddy was... I see another flash on the horizon." Men are opting out of mar…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/12/13 07:55 AM
12

I would like opinions on the other side of the coin: that persistent withholding of sex in a monogamous marriage is toxic to the companionate bond, and since married people often have children, the dissolution of this bond is often harmful (in one way or another) to the children. If you agree with my assertion above, please suggest solutions to the loss of attraction that often happens in marriages. In general, I would say the concept of "bodily autonomy" is a necessary component of, but insuffi…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/13 09:23 PM
7

I am currently growing old with a woman ;) To answer the second question: the qualities that she displayed that made her a good LTR prospect for me were: intellectual curiosity, conscientiousness & openness. And highly attracted to me (obviously). Also, I wasn't deliberately filtering for this, but the fact that we had a commensurate amount of sexual experience (ie. none) probably helped us. Also, don't forget the effect of wife goggles.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/13 07:12 PM
1

Male sexuality looks pretty fluid in prison ;) Really, I think hetero-homo is more of a smooth distribution - but one might drift towards homo if you're bi 'cause it can be just easier to deal with your own gender.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/12/13 03:06 AM
5

Not really - I just don't take what people profess all that seriously, and I think there's worse things going on on the planet then people from arbitrary sub-groups saying slightly mean stuff about people from other arbitrary sub-groups. More like, I accept that some people are racist, more then justify it. Or, put another way, I've kind of lost faith in modern progressivism.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/13 09:08 PM
10

I think the hypothesis that lesbians are lesbians because they're fat is absurd.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/13 05:35 PM
5

Thanks for your concern, but I think most people are capable of evaluating for themselves what's healthy.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/13 04:05 PM
6

Sure. I know that makes me a progressive heretic and all that, but white men don't actually rule the world (only the top 0.1% of humans rule the world, and they're not all male or white) and white men are allowed to have grievances. Basically, I'm open to anybody's experience of the world.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/13 04:04 PM
8

Having anger, frustration or criticism of behaviour interpreted as "hate" is part of the problem.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/13 06:39 AM
2

(re: rape culture: You're right, I was off-topic there) So: TRPers may see themselves as victims, but generally come around to see how they contributed to their own victimization, or to overcome it through positive action. (By the by, did you read the M3 article that was linked to in the stickied post mentioned?) TRP sees "victim culture" not as true victimization, but as indviduals using a mask of victimization in order to recruit institutional solutions to their problem. This is a general mora…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/13 06:15 AM
3

Prisoners do have established traditions and conventions which are focused specifically on the act of raping other prisoners. I personally don't see how any traditions or conventions in any OECD countries support rape. I do think some countries with tyrannical gov'ts, religious extremism, or a simple lack of law enforcement do qualify as rape cultures.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/13 05:19 AM
3

Is "rape culture" really a reasonable narrative?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/12/13 09:26 PM
4

People will tend to frame things in the way that best benefits them. Assuming a negative outcome makes one a victim is also question begging.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/12/13 09:03 PM
4

We have a disagreement about the context of the quoted post. It seems to me the "rape" mentioned was a retroactive rape, ie. a woman decides after the fact she was raped. Not a "stranger-at-knifepoint" type rape. In this scenerio, the woman was a victim of hurt feelings, not non-consensual sex. (We can now proceed to discussion about consent, legislation, and the definiton of rape, but let's read the OP charitably first). In the case of workplace discrimination, he's talking about a woman who di…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/12/13 08:28 PM
6

This fits right in with the narratives of feminine hypoagency. The other side of that coin, it should be stated, is male hyperagency. So: Is this construction any different from "A redpiller does not get what he wants. It's because of feminism/women/hamstering."? I have never seen a red piller follow this up with "...so women must change to give me what I want." It is usually "I must change so I can adapt." I don't even see red pillers, by and large, demanding a change in marriage laws, even tho…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/12/13 07:41 PM
9

Saying "people haven't examined our arguments" (what the original quote seems to be saying) is not the same as saying "people lack the faculties to examine our arguments." For myself, even outside of redpill/bluepill I've grown to distrust expressions of "ugh" which aren't backed by some form of argument. Most, not all, criticism thrown at TRP on reddit at large are just expressions of "ugh." The other thing that kind of bugs me is judging the sub as a whole by only pointing out the most content…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/12/13 02:35 PM
5

Well, every attempt so far to establish Men's Centres at universities & colleges (including Simon Fraser and Ryerson) has been blocked by feminists on student councils. It's no longer available, but the Simon Fraser video of student explaining why there shouldn't be a men's centre was particularly misandrous (I seem to remember "douchebags playing PS3" or something...) Peter Lloyd in the UK actually sued a gym over womens only hours.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/12/13 02:24 PM
10

/r/theredpill is a male-dominated space where we can be honest and unfiltered. Our culture destroyed pretty much all male clubs and organizations (strip clubs don't count - men don't talk to each other in them) so we're resurrecting them online.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/12/13 01:24 AM
0

Because infatuation is the first phase of falling in love.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/12/13 01:31 PM
1

I'd say an LTR has to be based on visceral sexual attraction (ie. "chemistry") during the infatuation phase, but a deeper appreciation for the persons extra-sexual qualities has to be there to transition into the companionate phase. So I guess we agree?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/12/13 01:44 AM
1

No, I'm saying knowledge of human behaviour has to start somewhere, and you've got to develop digestible heuristics if positive change is to be achieved. Yes, nuances certainly come into play, but you don't hang the curtains until the foundation of the house is built.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/12/13 12:52 AM
2

Well, ya, because TRP members are (it seems me) rebuilding their notion of what constitutes a sexual relationship from the ground up. If they found "compatibility and respect" using their old mating strategies, TRP wouldn't exist. Basically, I don't expect women to explain or critically analyze why low-status men are unattractive. Likewise, it's not incumbent on men to do so wrt female promiscuity. These things are just the way instincts are wired to process mating prospects.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/12/13 11:52 PM
5

The basic problem with your assertion IMO is that it assumes there's some sort of symmetry in men & women's romantic preferences. They are actually contextually asymmetrical, as follows: Here's what I consider to be pretty good analysis of this. This is the TRP notion of an "alpha widow" - basically if a woman has had a week-long fling with a super-attractive George Clooney-type (Clooney, note, also refused to settle down and marry), there's just no way a stable beta male can measure up to that …
/r/PurplePillDebate03/12/13 04:19 PM
3

Basically, I think excessive promiscuity doesn't really foster respect at all - irrespective of gender. The manosphere is rife with tales of carousel riders who "settled" for some beta male - that's hardly an expression of respect.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/12/13 02:28 AM
12

It might be because TRP is composed of two different sub-groups - sexual reactionaries who are annoyed at the lack of "good women" and are trying to make the best of it... ...and sexual progressives who think promiscuity is great and just want to optimize for notches. (I identify with the former group myself - but I'm self-consistent, having had very few sex partners and spent most of my adult life with one woman)
/r/PurplePillDebate03/12/13 02:04 AM
2

So even though this is a situation that never existed before, say, 1900, you think there is some sort of evolutionary mandate that makes the stay at home mom model the default? If my assertion - that women hate leaving their young kids - is true I think an adaptive explanation for this is reasonable. Anything that happens in civilization will likely be constrained by what happened in the evolutionary environment (civilization accounts for like 2% of the time humans have been a species). In that …
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/13 08:05 PM
6

I implied no such thing - in fact I wasn't even talking about women's sex drive. It's like there's this strange urge certain people are possessed of - it always has to be about women. I prefer the word "generalize" to "stereotype" - the thing where something is true of most members of a group.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/12/13 03:52 AM
5

Great question - you're right that the post-industrial "nuclear family" is a relatively recent invention, but it evolved from early forms of household life and a division of labour which (I think TRP thinks) is optimized for the talents & preferences of men & women generally. The way I tend to look at it is this: I think I've noticed (in talking to moms including my own wife) a very strong preference in women for being with and taking care of their babies. Not to put to fine a point on it, women…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/13 06:30 PM
5

Ya, I think what you're describing is an unhealthy attitude, but I can kind of identify. Sex is just a ridiculously overpowering drive in men, and very tied up with issues of self-worth, ego, &etc. I mean, it seems self-evident, but being sexually rejected hurts. If sexual success happens to follow taking a cynical attitude, well, that's kind of a strong reinforcement, ya?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/13 04:39 PM
3

Most welcome - always happy to engage.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/13 04:22 AM
13

OK, I'll more fully unpack my worldview on this one: I think humans have deep instincts on how to treat gender, which are similarily deep as say "intuitive physics" or "intuitive psychology" (babies have expectations about how objects act vs. people, know how to make eye contact when only days or hours old - this sort of thing). Men, on a deep level, are assigned status based on their utility to the group (tribe, nation, whatever) - and male status is much more widely distributed (all the absolu…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/11/13 01:21 AM
4

I make no value judgements. I was asked to reconcile my view that males are (historically and perhaps evolutionarily) more performance-orientated with men who call out TRPers (perceived or otherwise) misogyny. The context of this discussion, as I understand it, no a priori assumptions are made about whether or not TRP is misogynistic in any kind of objective sense. I thought we were here to discuss the different perspectives which create that impression, or to at least understand where TPRers mi…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/11/13 11:42 PM
12

Actually, I think TRP is fairly consistent in this regard, as (I would wager) they mostly feel most men don't deserve respect either. Honestly, my default position to people I've just met is the bare minimum of civilized respect (ie. not much) until they demonstrate to me a reason to give more. I would expect the same treatment for myself from them.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/11/13 10:00 PM
7

It's not much of an assumption at all - all you have to notice is that basically 100% of combat deaths going back to foragers are male. Male blue pillers who decry TRPs misogyny see themselves as protecting women's interests. That's why they're pejoratively called "white knights."
/r/PurplePillDebate29/11/13 09:54 PM
4

I would classify not giving respect on the basis of gender alone to be misogyny. This may explain some portion of TRPs attitude - but I do also see TRPers give earned respect to women, so it's certainly not all, or even most TRPers that refuse to give women respect (for merely their gender). I think a larger portion may be due to disagreements about which behaviours are respect worthy, or that some blue pillers may feel entitled to respect.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/11/13 09:48 PM
10

I don't think it's just about feminism. Feminism is a small part in a much larger dynamic - as Warren Farrell put it - the transition from a "survival" based society (ie. rules & order based, thus strict gender roles) to a "fulfilment" based society. TRP is largely about males achieving fulfilment.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/11/13 05:59 PM
12

Lemme spitball an idea, stating upfront I think it's a matter of basic expectations and miscommunication: Here The idea is that the modern gender conflict can be broken down into gender preferences: Men want love Women want respect. (I mean, all people want those things, but there is a deficit of love for men and a deficit of respect for women) My intuition is that /r/thebluepill, by and large, interprets the lack of respect for women shown on /r/theredpill as misogyny. But /r/theredpill, being …
/r/PurplePillDebate29/11/13 04:44 PM
21

This is exactly backwards. Men don't sleep with women because they lust for power. The strive for power because of their lust for women. Because humans are partially a tournament species, men have always competed & fought each other for access to women. Civilization was founded on channelling that competition into productive enterprises, with monogamy assuring assortive mating (roughly). So, under the old patriarchal system everybody now hates, a man would take a job for more money that he liked…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/11/13 04:01 PM
1

That's great, except many of those men are also fathers, and this hurts their children. Sorry to go all "think of the children", but this needs to be considered - it's not always so simple as "Next! the bitch." (Edit for less accusatory tone)
/r/PurplePillDebate29/11/13 03:22 AM
-2

Intellectually Induced Asexuality Not to NAWALT, but women are capable of loyalty. Suggest you start associating with a different social group.
/r/TheRedPill28/11/13 09:21 PM
2

Then, I guess the original poster was making the same category error. Having read Chateau for a long time, my opinion is it's highly focused on maintaining the "infatuation" stage of the relationship, but ending it and moving on to new prospects before the "companionate" stage settles in. "I love you" is something you say to someone to initiate the "companionate" stage. Her attraction level (so goes the theory) is very high as long as she's chasing after his emotional commitment (which signals a…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/11/13 08:05 PM
2

I appreciate the honesty of your analysis, but you seem to be making a basic category error. The Commandments of Poon isn't a guide for a man who wants a stable, fulfilling long-term relationship, it is a guide for a man that wants to be a cad and a serial monogamist - ie. who wants to have sex with a succession of young women.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/11/13 05:13 PM
8

To answer one of your questions: It was always thus - men have always had to compete and perform to acquire the attention of women. On the other hand, women have always had the unenviable ordeal of childbirth so maybe it somewhat evens out... Regardless, you seem to find the type of sex your having unfulfilling. Honestly, I find emotionally connected sex to be awesome, and I'm pretty sure it's because of the emotional connection to the person I'm fucking that makes it fulfilling. That may mean f…
/r/TheRedPill22/11/13 03:14 PM
5

You can take a slightly more optimistic view of the broader cultural trends. What you see as signs of an impending collapse could be viewed as a transitional phase in society wrt gender & relationships. I quite like Warren Farrell's characterization: we are moving from a survival based social structure (which is what rigid gender roles are optimized for) to a self-fulfilment based social structure. Renegotiating the social contract between the gender may be part of that transition.
/r/TheRedPill21/11/13 09:51 PM
2

One thing I think is important to add: the amount of times you reference her "yelling" at the kids is a bit disturbing. She is eventually going to train them to seek negative attention, which typically just makes behavior worse over time ("out of control" she says). Once you've set up some respect in the marriage flowing your way, negotiated how the household stuff is split up, &etc., you should make it known that this way of interacting with the kids isn't acceptable (protip: don't have this di…
/r/TheRedPill17/09/13 02:38 AM
3

You might like takeninhand.com
/r/askTRP10/09/13 12:42 AM
2

And I plan my children to grow up in a double-income home Something which hasn't been said here I think, which I will add: chances are very, very likely that when you have your first baby, you will feel a strong desire to take care of it yourself, and will feel awful leaving the baby with a daycare worker or nanny or whatever. You should factor this in your planning. (My wife experienced this for the short time we had our first in daycare, and almost every woman I've talked to about this at work…
/r/askTRP06/09/13 08:47 PM
31

Suggest you embody the masculine trait known as "independence" and don't let anyone - no matter how respected in the manosphere - tell you what you want.
/r/askTRP02/09/13 11:42 PM
2

Martial arts (if you're not already taking one) can be considered "fake confrontation" that is reasonably safe. I've learned a bunch of tactics on how to relax your body and mind when you get into anxiety-producing social situations. Another big one for me was learning to not be conflict-avoidant in my marriage. The only way to do that was... just to do it. I was really clumsy at it at first but just got better with practise. So, practise. Start by picking up the phone.
/r/TheRedPill31/08/13 08:55 PM
4

Follow the campsite rule: leave them better then you found them. I think the pay-off matrix is this: 1a You have an upfront conversation about your intentions: she laughs, says "get over yourself" and continues being a plate 1b You have an upfront conversation: she is hurt, but the damage is minimized 2a You say nothing and she keeps being your plate 2b You say nothing and she continues to build you and the relationship up in her mind - eventually, her one-itis is deep and you'll have to have th…
/r/askTRP31/08/13 01:33 AM
1

Thanks lol. Ya - unfortunately, SAHD are still wildly in the minority, and it's really hard for them to socialized with the SAHMs because of perceived or real sexual tension. I know this because I've seen the dynamic (I very occasionally do shift-work and I've hung out with my wife & the local clatch during those times). Time with bros will probably do you some good, I think.
/r/askTRP30/08/13 09:00 PM
1

Oh, forgot: Pegging?? Which book did you read? Maybe my memory's foggy, but I don't remember pegging being mentioned in the Primer.
/r/askTRP30/08/13 08:39 PM
7

My read: Infidelities in your past, combined with not being the provider for your family is fucking with your head. Which, actually, is completely understandable - you probably feel like the dependant in the relationship. But from what I can see, structurally, you're OK. Your wife seems to respect you and see the value you bring to the relationship. You have an inner game (self-worth) problem. The solution to the big problem is to work on the little problems - being a kick-ass SAHD, getting the …
/r/askTRP30/08/13 08:35 PM
8

So beta
/r/TheRedPill30/08/13 04:59 PM
3

After you read Athol, read Ian Ironwood
/r/TheRedPill30/08/13 04:57 PM
3

They also seem to be very, biologically, aroused when they see an erect penis, an Adonis with a flaccid one though apparently does nothing. Haven't read the book, but the problem with this is the physical arousal doesn't correspond to subjective arousal (it's very unlikely women are subjectively aroused by the sight of apes having sex). So the statement: For one, the book points out that women, as a group, are much more sexual. Doesn't follow, because subjective arousal should be the metric dete…
/r/MensRights30/08/13 03:55 PM
3

(Reposted - apologies for fucking it up the first time)
/r/TheRedPill29/08/13 07:26 PM
1

Ironwood also discusses chivalry here
/r/askTRP29/08/13 01:58 PM
26

"suddenly we weren't fighting each other, we were fighting the world" This is a brilliant line. Perfect.
/r/TheRedPill28/08/13 06:55 PM
3

Studies in non-human primates demonstrate that socially submissive males have less testosterone in their blood then dominant ones do. The apparent direction of causality is that being low status causes the low-T. Makes sense, as mating opportunities will be less frequent and an aggressive demeanour will be costly if it can't be backed up. In the modern context, men just aren't given a lot of guidance wrt channeling their competitive instincts - unless you end up playing sports or whatever. So yo…
/r/askTRP25/08/13 11:03 PM
11

Looks like you've mastered aloof jerk game. I didn't read a single thing you did to build relationship comfort. IMO, an inexperienced girl isn't going to be truly uninhibited sexually with you until you've balanced out the alpha with some beta and build some sense of security. Oneitis isn't bad, if it's mutual.
/r/askTRP25/08/13 04:41 AM
2

Meditation, yoga, martial arts... These are all very good practises which help you explore negative emotions.
/r/askTRP25/08/13 01:21 AM
19

Classic example of "trickle truth."
/r/TheRedPill24/08/13 05:13 AM
2

The answer to the title of your post is no - the brutal truth is there's always going to be guys on the bottom of the pile who just aren't going to pull the interest of women. In your case, read this and note the use of "still waters run deep" game (which is more or less what I'm running, as a natural introvert). And know you can gain the necessary self-improvement to "muddle through" to your relationship goals.
/r/askTRP24/08/13 02:12 AM
2

That sounds like... really immature behaviour. Just sayin'. At any rate, suggest you make part of being a better you not walking on eggshells trying not to give her "ammunition" to use in an argument. I mean, if whatever she throws in your face is not germane to the subject at hand, you need to shut that down.
/r/askTRP23/08/13 04:36 PM
4

She's not shit testing, she's loyalty testing. She's afraid you're going to leave her. Link How will she react to the Red Pill? If you explain it to her, with the caveat that you're trying to be a better man, and make your relationship better...
/r/askTRP23/08/13 03:56 PM
8

No one's done the obligatory link to Athol Kay. So. The cole's notes version is: Work on yourself until you are hotter then your wife (to her perception) Make your demand perfectly clear (in this case, that she continue to lose weight and work on the marriage) If the demands aren't complied with, present an ultimatum. Be seriously ready to initiate divorce. Including having papers ready. Seriously recommend joining the forums in the link above. Lots of helpful, experienced people, particularly b…
/r/TheRedPill23/08/13 03:41 PM
1

Because we are a safe & secure society, with a Hobbsian-leviathon-type state monopoly on the use of violence, women no longer have to be seen as a "protected class" of person, since the state protects all people more or less equally. Additionally, most of women's traditional domain of work has largely been displaced by technology. So, in the modern context, women want access to (traditional) male accomplishment. Everything, IMO, flows from this, but percolates through culture in various ways. So…
/r/askTRP22/08/13 06:08 PM
1

Yup - marriage and pregnancy. Link
/r/askTRP22/08/13 04:46 PM
5

...not to mention hospitals spend millions of dollars on procedures that make sure mothers don't take home the wrong baby. Paternity testing would simply be the male equivalent.
/r/TheRedPill21/08/13 02:25 PM
2

Fair point, so I'll clarify. Cuckoldry is the negation of male reproductive agency in the same way rape is the negation of female reproductive agency. (I do agree with the MRA position on female on male rape, by and large. I do think men emotionally process such violations differently then women, however)
/r/TheRedPill20/08/13 06:39 PM
2

Men are the leaders. A sexless marriage is usually their fault. Yes, with the proviso that "fault" in this context unpacks into it's on the man to take action to change the tone of the relationship, due to womens' responsive desire et al. The problem is, "Man as leader of household" isn't an approved cultural script (whether or not you're married to a feminist or whatever) - so most husbands are just flailing around in ignorance - which mostly ends up being retreating to the man cave and playing…
/r/askTRP20/08/13 02:01 PM
1

The actual percentage of male virgins don't really support this. Source
/r/TheRedPill19/08/13 08:29 PM
1

To be clear, my wife has never said that to me. It's about what I want to signal to her. (I wasn't going to mention this, but now it seems germane: We were discussing infidelity in the abstract, and she offered to have paternity tests done. I declined.)
/r/TheRedPill19/08/13 08:25 PM
1

For all we know there could have been 1,000+ actual false accusations that slipped through the cracks. There were also x number of rapes and DV incidents that went unreported. The problem is, you can't update on stats you don't have.
/r/TheRedPill19/08/13 06:31 PM
2

Maybe, but what other men do isn't really my concern. They should pursue their own happiness. Pursuing mine means not signalling to my wife (who has a proven track record of loyalty to me) that I mistrust her so much as to require a paternity test.
/r/TheRedPill19/08/13 06:07 PM
7

What's interesting (meaning, here, absolutely fucking harrowing and gut-wrenching) to me is trying to imagine what I would do if I found out one of my kids wasn't mind - scorched earth? Go ghost? Stay and make the best of it? It's horrifying, cause I'm highly invested in my kids, can't imagine just walking away. At the same time, it's the worst possible betrayal imaginable. Cuckoldry, I think, is the equivalent of rape for a man. Fortunately for me, it's a very remote probability...
/r/TheRedPill19/08/13 03:33 PM
5

Looking around me, many marriages become sexless due to complacency. And it's true, once kids are in the mix, it takes consistent effort to remember and act like lovers, as well as parents. Anyway, the number one reason women stay in these relationships is maintaining paternal investment, which has all kinds of benefits, logistical, emotional, &etc. The number two reason is it's quite possible to maintain a companionate bond in a... less then passionate marriage. Also, keep in mind, women on ave…
/r/askTRP19/08/13 02:02 PM
1

I really enjoyed this article, but in the final analysis, I'll trade a little bit of my natural masculinity for a civilization and a low rate of violence.
/r/TheRedPill18/08/13 11:35 PM
7

My Fully Generic Definition of "the red pill" is the set of facts* about gender differences which remain unacknowledged in the wider Culture due to their standing in the way of achieving feminist notions of gender equality. Different advocates for mens' interest use the red pill in different ways. MRA's talk about male disposability, which is related to mens' traditional role as protecters. This (I would contend) is no mere socialized expectation, but is a very deep male instinct. This, in turn,…
/r/MensRights18/08/13 03:16 PM
5

Either way, his army had just killed their husbands & fathers, so that part kind of sucked. (Especially for the husbands & fathers)
/r/TheRedPill17/08/13 04:48 AM
2

Well, your answer is, I agree with TRP about women's sexual attraction triggers, but disagree with many TRPer's about women's capacity for rational thought. That's hardly androgyny, just a belief that the two genders neo-cortexes are structured in approximately the same way.
/r/TheRedPill17/08/13 04:01 AM
3

It's hardly surprising that Overton window moves in response to any largish sub-population being given the vote. It doesn't follow from this that that sub-population is going to vote as a group on any single issue.
/r/TheRedPill17/08/13 03:48 AM
7

I don't call myself an MRA, but I am sympathetic to the problems they talk about, and agree with several of their goals. They've recognized that complaining won't do any good, which is why they're going with the strategy of expressing anger, since male anger gets attention. The next problem is this: feminism was hugely successful, in part, because women are very good at forming consensus-based groups and working towards a common goal. The men in the manosphere are doing what men always do when t…
/r/TheRedPill17/08/13 03:09 AM
1

There is no political solutions to men's rights as long as we have women's suffrage Disagree - Women aren't some monolithic voting block. There are prominent female voices in the MRM, and fewer and fewer females are identifying as feminists. In principle, women can be convinced to care about men's issues. Women aren't some monolithic voting block.
/r/TheRedPill17/08/13 02:48 AM
8

I don't think he cared about enthusiastic consent...
/r/TheRedPill16/08/13 09:20 PM
14

I doubt he beat out Genghis Khan, but I guess the total # of GK's progency wasn't documented...
/r/TheRedPill16/08/13 08:23 PM
3

My wife and I are "switch"-ers, and I can vouch for this. I discovered a slight masochistic streak in myself, we explore it, and it hasn't impacted the over-all dynamic of our relationship at all. The main thing, as a man, if you're going to explore submissiveness in the bedroom, is to maintain really good boundaries (ie. pass shit tests, stay dominant &etc.) outside of the bedroom.
/r/askTRP16/08/13 01:16 PM
1

http://www.ted.com/talks/amy_cuddy_your_body_language_shapes_who_you_are.html Personally, I didn't really read anything to improve all this stuff. I just paid close attention to what I was doing with my body for a while, played "eye game" with strangers on the subway on my way to work, &etc. until it became somewhat second nature.
/r/askTRP16/08/13 02:37 AM
5

If she's innately dominant, that's not likely to change. If she's not willing to take turns on who gets to run the fuck, she's sexually selfish. If she is willing to play "switch", you'll have some built-in variety to your sex life.
/r/askTRP16/08/13 02:35 AM
1

Thanks - that's a very useful phrase.
/r/askTRP14/08/13 01:09 PM
2

She is insecure because you are constantly signalling to her that she has higher status then you do. Women are hypergamous, so they get very uncomfortable being with a man they perceive as weak. You don't have to be a domineering asshole, but you do have to start bumping back. You're right, you can't next her, but you can kind of next her short-term. If she is seriously testing you, state that her behaviour is unacceptable. Then leave the house for the evening. And turn off your cell phone. Othe…
/r/askTRP14/08/13 02:18 AM
-10

I don't claim there's anything special about the number, other then it's a large enough sample size to perhaps say something interesting about some sub-population of men.
/r/askTRP12/08/13 07:03 PM
2

The problem is, on an intellectual level, you both want it to work and fight for the marriage. On a deeper, emotional level, you're both still pissed at each other.
/r/askTRP12/08/13 02:19 PM
2

This is all a huge structural issue in the marriage that you're both still wrestling with. She's hating you with her vagina, you're trying to fix it by introducing more kink and dominance... In the meantime, the sex is all a sideshow to the fact that you both hurt each other very badly and haven't healed yet and are dealing with all kinds of pain and resentment. Right?
/r/askTRP12/08/13 01:35 PM
1

Survey says! j/k - I couldn't really say. I mean, there's probably going to be some normal distribution, with guys who don't care at all, to guys whom it's an absolute deal-breaker. I suspect guys in the thick part of that curve are going to get a slightly queezy feeling in their stomach when they hear about your past. This is the same queezy feeling they get when their wife goes to Vegas for the weekend with their single and divorced girlfriends, if you see what I mean. Most men will try to hid…
/r/TheRedPill12/08/13 06:10 AM
3

IMO, a high-partner count is a red flag, but not a deal-breaker. A high-partner count, combined with poor impulse control, immaturity, or any type of crazy behaviour is a deal-breaker (although, those qualities would be deal-breakers in and of themselves). What would over-come an HPC (in terms of long term prospect) is many signals of loyalty, honesty and a sense that she is totally into me. HTH
/r/TheRedPill12/08/13 04:33 AM
5

she played hard to get kinda girl I don't think she was playing. I think she's sociosexually restricted, and kind of naive. I mean, she actually thought "Come back to my place to watch a movie" actually meant "Come back to my place to watch a movie." She hasn't got the memo that one night stands are "empowering."
/r/TheRedPill12/08/13 04:26 AM
-29

This sub is a support group for men dealing with a sense of inadequacy. And like most support groups, you exchange stories (referred to as "field reports") and discuss your ongoing difficulties (referred to as "ranting/venting"). If this is true - it probably is, after a fashion - the obvious (to me, anyway) questions would be: Why are there upwards of 10,000 men who have this sense of inadequacy*? Can you be explicit about what, exactly, the members of TRP feel/felt inadequate about? (You hint …
/r/askTRP12/08/13 03:36 AM
12

NOTE: To add some context, I've had two affairs in the course of our marriage, the last one was very embarrasing for her, more so than the sex part but that everyone in her circle of friends, family, and colleagues found out. This is what, over at MMSL, we call "the elephant in the room" - that vital piece of information that somehow gets "forgotten" in the history of the relationship which always turns out to be the vital piece of the puzzle. Bluntly, you've betrayed her trust, trust is an impo…
/r/askTRP12/08/13 12:40 AM
9

Here's my read: I've recently trying to just be more honest with people regardless of consequences Good. Lying to keep the peace is classic toxic "Nice Guy" behaviour. "last week" Pre-selection. DHV. I don't know why I agreed here 'cause you're still reflexively trying to keep the peace by telling people what you think they want to hear. Yes, this was a fail. "Fine. See you, take care of yourself." (I want to go drink with friends right now anyway) Aloof, uncaring, moving on with your life. what…
/r/askTRP11/08/13 02:00 AM
5

Well, if it's low-T, none of the advice given so far - related to being more forceful/dominant with her - is going to work.
/r/TheRedPill07/08/13 02:47 PM
2

It's not abuse if it's consensual. Looks like most the objections are just pearl-clutching and gender-policing. Done, and done.
/r/TheRedPill07/08/13 02:27 PM
9

She giving you "star-fish sex" ya? So what does that mean? My read is, she values you highly, doesn't want to lose you as a mate, but isn't really turned on - so she lies back and let's you go to it, but isn't really participating. You're doing all the right stuff to engage her attraction, but she's still not feeling it - ergo, medical. (Really, at this point, on the MMSL forums, you'd be asked for a "triage" - a complete history of the marriage &etc. But I'll continue trying to channel the foru…
/r/TheRedPill07/08/13 02:22 PM
4

On the MMSL forums, the standard line is "eliminate medical first." So... has she had her testosterone levels checked?
/r/TheRedPill07/08/13 02:00 PM
2

<Raises hand> Married via cohabitation (common-law) at around mid-20s (can't remember exactly when it actually kicked in), will be celebrating 10th wedding anniversary very soon. Met at school. Our kids aren't all in school yet, so she's a SAHM for now - we live a pretty typical middle-class lifestyle. Life is mostly up, the relationship is harmonious, being parents is very fulfilling for both of us. The main thing that changes with kids is logistics - there's no more going out for dinner/movie …
/r/askTRP06/08/13 04:09 AM
5

I'm pro-choice (but marginally sympathetic to the pro-life stance). I'm also for Legal Paternal Surrender - the right of a man to free himself from the financial obligations of fatherhood, in exchange for having no role in his child's life.
/r/askTRP05/08/13 02:35 PM
7

I think this. Educational attainment means different things to men & women wrt hypergamy. Educational attainment to men (traditionally) means getting a high earning position to better provide for a family. For women (traditionally), it means meeting one of these men. Nowadays, for women who are even interested in marriage, it means a feminist merit badge before settling into a traditional role. Women bet on the horse, not the race and school is the place to find a horse. (Maybe this means a slig…
/r/TheRedPill05/08/13 05:14 AM
1

Judgybitch does a great take-down of this here
/r/RedPillWomen05/08/13 04:38 AM
6

My only question is why have these institutions broken down? Was it in response to feminism or a basic change in women. Birth control technology. betas are essentially useless as breeding stock Since civilization requires more male co-operation then male competition, betas aren't really "useless" as breeding stock - you need the participation of a large number of betas to do all the "heavy lifting" required for the large, co-operative projects which are the hallmarks of civilization. What modern…
/r/TheRedPill04/08/13 08:44 PM
3

My wife is on SSRIs. The story goes - without warning, she was suddenly just sad and moody all the time, for months straight. There were no "external" reasons for this. She got diagnosed, started the drugs, did a round of CBT, started going to the gym several times a week. Things have been basically normal since then.
/r/TheRedPill04/08/13 07:44 PM
2

Roy Baumeister talks very lucidly about this point in his book/lecture "Is There Anything Good About Men?" Worth a read.
/r/TheRedPill04/08/13 07:14 PM
2

(Married guy here) I'll answer 2-5, cause I feel like the definition of alpha has been done to death... 2) The main thing, in my experience, has been this - the man cannot display "weak" traits like passive aggressiveness or conflict avoidance. They cause relationship stress and insecurity in the woman. Athol Kay's prescription for this is "be a nice guy with a hard edge" and that's pretty much the best way to describe it. I'm very good about doing relationship-y "comfort"-type stuff but I've al…
/r/RedPillWomen04/08/13 12:57 AM
12

I want a woman I can cuddle with at night, have fun with, be my best friend, etc. I want her to be supportive and I want to support her too. In order to get that stuff (& sex) from a woman you need to be attractive. Which is the main purpose of the sub, ya?
/r/askTRP03/08/13 10:50 PM
3

One cultural norm that has survived the feminist onslaught is that it's the man's job to initiate. Another is that women are selective about who they have sex with - if you read what feminists have to say about sexual relationships, it's usually focused on women's right to reject men (which they absolutely have - but it's pretty apparent they have no interest in understanding or empathizing with men on this). She doesn't escalate the friend because she never even thinks of him as a sexual prospe…
/r/askTRP03/08/13 09:03 PM
5

Here's how I think it works (for both sexes, from the inside): Pretty girls feel they are "defined" by their prettiness - which they intuit early on as having to do with their value as a sexual object. Eventually, they come to really want someone to value them for something other then that they were born as they are. See it from this perspective - some guy becomes your friend, and doesn't immediately make an aggressive pass at you. At last you might be thinking someone who values my other qualit…
/r/askTRP03/08/13 08:29 PM
1

If anything it could possibly be worse than a so-called "blue pill woman" if they have any kind of social intelligence whatsoever as a manipulative woman with this kind of knowledge would definitely lie lie lie about her sexual history, the origin of any possible bastard children she may have, and try to suck up by pandering to male preferences and assure you that she "gets it" and is "special" as a sort of pseudo girl-game in an attempt to get some kind of binding commitment out of someone who …
/r/askTRP03/08/13 08:05 PM
61

I don't want to make light of someone's suicide attempt, or come off as overly cynical - but does it strike anyone else as weird that the man tries to kill himself and then is giving newspaper interviews the next day?
/r/TheRedPill03/08/13 06:22 PM
30

Testing for congruency. A man who's desperately anticipating sex will be clearly let down/butt-hurt by such rejection. A man with abundance mentality will take the "bad news" in stride with an alpha smirk.
/r/TheRedPill02/08/13 07:09 PM
1

It's helped myself and a lot of other men, it's definitely worth a Kindle purchase.
/r/TheRedPill02/08/13 02:22 PM
5

Humans are partly a tournament species (which is why we're sexually dimorphic), which means, essentially, there is some element of male-on-male competition for mating opportunities. This is the basis of Alpha. Civilization depends on enhancing the co-operative aspects of our species, and disincentivizing competitive & violent behaviour. Gov't and law takes for itself a monopoly on the use of violent force. Cultural products like sports are designed to channel male competition into reasonably non…
/r/TheRedPill02/08/13 02:16 PM
1

Early 40's I don't regret getting married. Wish I had taken a STEM field in Uni, instead of a useless humanities degree. The problem with that is, I wouldn't've ended up married to the woman I did, or have the career I have, so it all ends up looking like the ST:TNG episode Tapestry) I know you posted looking to benefit from wisdom, so here it is (such as it is): thanks to choice-supportive biases, as long as you make reasonably decent life decisions, you'll probably end up happy (not accounting…
/r/TheRedPill01/08/13 09:12 PM
13

Ask them why they're gender-policing...
/r/RedPillWomen01/08/13 08:01 PM
1

There's an important concept in the oft-recommended "No More Mr. Nice Guy" called a "covert contract." This is (in a nutshell) when you do something for someone, with the unexpressed expectation of getting something in return. So, I stopped doing that... I mean, I'm basically an agreeable person, and doing nice stuff makes me feel good. What's different is I do it for that reason alone, and basically am better about setting boundaries when being "nice" gets in the way of my happiness. There's a …
/r/TheRedPill01/08/13 07:52 PM
1

I've contemplated this myself - I'm somewhat of an aspy, so human social dynamics are like a black box that I don't understand but everyone around me "gets" intuitively. My (subconscious) strategy for a long time was just to be nice as possible. Of course, this doesn't work... It's been my recent experience that people react to you differently once you start sending the right social cues.
/r/TheRedPill01/08/13 05:56 PM
1

why do I hesitate to stand up for myself? Because you have low self-worth. Change takes time. You're getting really good advice here.
/r/TheRedPill01/08/13 03:52 PM
1

Quite welcome
/r/TheRedPill01/08/13 02:27 PM
2

Fully general advice: Self-assertion: Ask for what you want - be straightforward, but polite Don't get into "mutual submission deadlocks" - if she's asking what to eat/what to do, she's looking for you lead. Suggest something. Going along with her suggestions is fine (you want to be dominant, not domineering) How to have disagreements: Make eye contact and keep your back straight always Accept reasonable requests/criticisms, in a reasonable tone If she's being rude/bitchy, push back - "I will no…
/r/TheRedPill31/07/13 08:41 PM
1

The two things - the infertility and the lack of sex - might be (probably are) intertwined. I can't imagine sex is much fun for either of you, with that hanging over the whole thing. Are there any productive actions you can take on this front? IVF?
/r/TheRedPill30/07/13 03:24 AM
2

How are you quantifying that? 2 children, happy, stable, productive, sexual. You have better metrics for how to judge a marriage? Sorry, but the rest of your response is just hyperbole. (Edit: changed order to prevent potential awkwardness...)
/r/TheRedPill29/07/13 07:55 PM
3

That is all well and good, but do you have any links on how to approach and maintain an LTR relationship? The two sites I linked to are dedicated to this. How can I use red pill philosophy to demonstrate compatibility? If you want to get married, you have to actually be compatible.
/r/TheRedPill29/07/13 07:39 PM
1

How often your wife gets hit on is immaterial to mate-guarding? What exactly do you think you are guarding her from? The people who aren't trying to have sex with her? Try to think about this. I assume you're arguing in good faith, so I don't know why you're selectively quoting me. To be clear: he's not only drawing on his own experience, but years of participating in marriage forums. This sub is at least partially based on making inferences based on shared experiences - is Athol Kay some specia…
/r/TheRedPill29/07/13 07:36 PM
11

The less attractive your wife, the less other men will hit on her, and the ones who do hit on her will be less attractive. This directly ties into how likely it is that she will cheat on you. I can't speak to how often Jenn Kay gets hit on or not, but it remains immaterial. Athol cut his teeth on the Talk About Marriage forum, where infidelity and mate-guarding are huge ongoing problem. His advice on mate-guarding is first rate. (And, there's more to marriage then mate-guarding). Translation: Sh…
/r/TheRedPill29/07/13 05:10 PM
2

In your mind, what makes a long term, happy relationship? A very simple model for relationship success, but I understand a very accurate one, is this: (avg. amount of lovemaking) - (# of quarrels) Obviously, you don't want a negative number. This works, I think, because it captures the two things that make an LTR work: a high level of maintained attraction and pair-bonding, and the ability to resolve disagreements productively. So, your mate choice, and any red or green flags, should be things t…
/r/TheRedPill29/07/13 04:48 PM
12

I see this same thing run up the flagpole every time Athol Kay is mentioned on this sub, and, frankly, I don't see the point in attacking one of the manosphere's best and most influential thinkers with this silliness. Not to mention one of the few who isn't hiding behind a pseudonym. Nor is it particularily salient what his wife looks like, if his advice is solid. Yes, I'm coming across as being on "Team Kay" here, but, well, I am on Team Kay, as far as the larger project of revalourizing marria…
/r/TheRedPill29/07/13 04:23 PM
28

Let me (selectively) google that for you: Athol Kay on wife selection Ian Ironwood on wife selection Here is something useful for you to contemplate: When I "swallowed the pill" and resolved to improve my marriage, I told my wife I was going to apply game principles. Just because she's consciously aware of what you're doing, doesn't make any of this stuff less effective. Attraction isn't a choice.
/r/TheRedPill29/07/13 02:40 PM
8

Two things at work here I think: One is womens' mate preferences shift during the fertile phase of their ovulatory cycle towards men carrying external markers of genetic fitness and also (I suspect) displaying dominant traits. Two is there's some evidence then when women come off the pill, again, their preferences shift towards more alpha. This is why game is so fucking important to married men.
/r/TheRedPill29/07/13 02:32 PM
1

At this point, I would encourage your to introspect on, learn about, and own your kink. Whatever it is you want to call it.
/r/TheRedPill29/07/13 04:06 AM
1

I think it's enough to say that human sexual dimorphism suggests some non-overlapping gender roles in the evolutionary environment (ie. males were protectors) and leave it at that. (For academic interest, I guess it all depends on which traits you want to focus on. Here is the relevant wiki article. The thrust (evolutionarily) of dimorphism (IMO) is as an indicator of how much male on male competition there is, and, well, human males are pretty cooperative compared to gorillas.)
/r/RedPillWomen29/07/13 02:12 AM
1

This is very good. Two (humble) suggestions: humans exhibit enormous sexual dimorphism, more so than any other primate species I believe this is factually false - gorillas, for example, are far more (physically) sexually dimorphic then humans. This is because gorillas are a tournament species - where a single alpha monopolizes a harem of females, usually for only a few mating seasons, after which he is displaced by another, younger alpha. Chimps and humans aren't quite a tournament species, and …
/r/RedPillWomen29/07/13 12:33 AM
2

I've previously emotionally bonded to a woman to the point of thinking that life would be impossible without her and I think this kind of thing is a mistake. I'd actually qualify it as a form of mental illness. To be clear, that sounds more like one-itis/co-dependancy, and is not the same as the type of bonding I'm talking about. I would liken my situation to being given a new tool kit and not knowing what to build. Fair enough - I think a reasonable course of action is to find women whose compa…
/r/TheRedPill28/07/13 07:59 PM
6

I don't think you need us to validate your choices... ...but, I will say there's something... ineffably awesome about going the tradcon family route - emotionally bonding to a woman, intertwining your lives together, and raising children is just really fulfilling. (Yes, I know, divorce risk - it's not something to be entered into lightly, but I can only report on my experience, and I've been thankfully spared that outcome) You may not feel that calling, and you may never, and you shouldn't pursu…
/r/TheRedPill28/07/13 07:33 PM
1

Why?
/r/TheRedPill28/07/13 02:38 PM
4

Proper mate selection - low impulse control, high partner count, immaturity are all red flags. Trust but verify: Password access (for both of you) to phones, facebook accounts, &etc. Set proper boundaries for behaviour (ie. no GNOs or Vegas trips with divorced/single friends) Be ready to mate guard in public with uninvited flirting. (And, as has been said elsewhere in the thread, maintain high value - be ready to walk on the relationship if it comes to that) (Edit to add: the problem with the "l…
/r/TheRedPill28/07/13 05:31 AM
3

I've also come to enjoy the threesomes and to get over some of my jealousy I won't say it's been perfect I'm not crazy about she's happy Who knows, maybe I'm wrong, but the inference I draw is that she's happy and you're conflicted, but you've come here convince us you're happy, so you can convince yourself you're happy. If I'm wrong, I guess I'm happy for you. (Our "assumptions" are that she's getting beta comfort and relationship investment from you, but hot alpha sex from the other guy - your…
/r/TheRedPill28/07/13 03:52 AM
1

Wow that's so edgy, matrix is 2deep Disliking a metaphor is not the same as having an argument. "People only hate the red pill because its so true it hurts" You realize this rational can be used for ANY ideology? It's an explanation for folks' reaction, but is in no way central to our principles. We don't think we're right merely because our out-group hates us. censor ANYONE who disagrees with you IN THE SLIGHTEST Simply not true. self obsessed with being "alpha" that its pathetic Making an hone…
/r/TheRedPill27/07/13 02:17 AM
2

Because she intuited an action that would start making him feel better... (Women understand men better then men understand women, absent TRP)
/r/TheRedPill27/07/13 01:51 AM
2

It is impossible for me to foretell what things will set him off so I feel like I am constantly walking on eggshells around him. FWIW: For starters, when he's calm and sober, sit him down and explain that his behaviour is scaring you and making you feel insecure (the above words are of someone who is being emotionally terrorized, IMO). For seconds, your time is valuable, and there's got to be some effective limit after which you actually start discussing actionable, productive avenues to address…
/r/RedPillWomen27/07/13 01:48 AM
21

Disagree - "angry sex" ie. pounding her into the mattress - is the natural male response to infidelity. How it works is, other guys sperm is inside her, you've got to get yours in and his out. The pounding action sucks the other guys semen out (which is why the penis is shaped the way it is). Horrifying fact - guys who walk in on their wives in flagrante delicto immediately get horny - past all the hurt and anger - for this very reason.
/r/TheRedPill27/07/13 12:55 AM
2

I'm going to recommend Athol Kay's new book, "The Mindful Attraction Plan", as it's far more general then the MMSL Primer (which is really aimed at men who aren't getting laid by their wives) - and should help him figure out a way resolve his situation at work, which sounds like it's really toxic. Fortunately, it sounds like you've got really great instincts - keep a supportive attitude, but you may find a need to set some boundaries on him finding productive ways to channel his anger.
/r/RedPillWomen26/07/13 11:23 PM
2

Ya, like there's any excuse for her behaviour.
/r/TheRedPill26/07/13 10:42 PM
2

When I redpilled, there was a period where I analyzed my history with my wife. What caused me to buy in to this way of thinking was that it retrodicted every successful & unsuccessful move I made. Without really knowing what I was doing, I managed to be her "bad boy" and keep her hooked. I would never have described myself this way. My guess is this guy just happens to have the right alpha/beta balance for this women, just by luck. He just comes across as beta in the message. Also, I infer he ha…
/r/TheRedPill26/07/13 12:37 AM
3

That explains why she stays with him, it doesn't explain the frequent sex & blowjobs, which only wives who are attracted to their husbands generally do. If she were cheating, the pattern is usually drip-feed the husband just enough sex to keep him hooked (and usually non-enthusiastically)
/r/TheRedPill26/07/13 12:25 AM
2

| Nah it's not just about sex. It seems that he went too beta in the relationship and now she's getting to the point where the "spark" isn't there so she may leave him. If he wants to maintain his marriage, that "spark" needs to be brought back by many of the various game tactics. I agree with this part - he needs to bring some alpha, but it's gotta be adapted to the fact that there's a baby on the way. | Dread is a foundational one that Athol Kay himself utilizes. The current consensus on the M…
/r/TheRedPill24/07/13 11:20 PM
2

Not sure it's that simple - speaking first-hand, involving pain in sexual play makes it kind of a different experience, and I'm guessing you have to be a particular kind of person to enjoy that sort of thing - open to new experience, and somewhat thrill-seeking, I'd reckon. There could be some sub-set of BDSM folk are there because it's a PC way to express D/s tendencies, but I'd think that would be restricted to far-left types sympathetic to radfem. I'd like to think common folk have more self-…
/r/RedPillWomen24/07/13 05:57 PM
6

Speaking hyperbolically for a sec, Western culture (in tandem with the various n-wave feminisms) have basically destroyed masculinity, and the Manosphere exists to rebuild it. We're somewhat pulling in different directions on this - some (like myself) are embracing fatherhood & family, some are embracing spinning plates, and some are embracing MGTOW. Obviously, this is all going to unpack into very different preferences as to what type of woman is awesome (MGTOWs think there are no awesome women…
/r/RedPillWomen24/07/13 05:48 PM
1

Then (to somewhat re-iterate) the best thing you can do all-around - for your relationship, sex-life, etc. - is to be the strong, dominant male in the household, but signal strongly your intent to take your role as father seriously, weather her hormonal shit-tests with stoicism, find the alpha-beta balance that's going to work best, &etc. It's win-win because there's always the chance her libido will come back online, but if the pregnancy hormones are killing it your setting yourself up for afte…
/r/TheRedPill24/07/13 05:05 PM
1

Because dread is just going to fuel the fires of her insecurity. Respectfully, I sense we're kind of talking at cross-purposes - I'm aiming to encourage a stable situation for the future of a child, and you're trying to get him better sex.
/r/TheRedPill24/07/13 04:53 PM
13

'kay, pregnancy changes everything. And the facts you hinted at - no stable job, no financial security - means she is probably feeling horribly insecure. My guess is - all the stuff you're interpreting as shit tests ("Are you strong enough?") are actually probably loyalty tests ("Don't leave me!"), keeping in mind a baby on the way is probably the most vulnerable position for a woman to be in. That's what that text was about (by my read). My advice is head over to Athol Kay's site, read the prim…
/r/TheRedPill24/07/13 04:30 PM
1

Hold up... Is that a Miranda IUD? There's circumstantial evidence that those things fuck with a woman's libido.
/r/TheRedPill23/07/13 08:51 PM
3

Stuff that helped me: Working out Practise dominant body language - take up space when you walk or sit, walk with your spine erect and head up, make and hold eye contact (seriously, it sounds slightly ridiculous, but your brain sees you walking like a dominant person, and thinks "I must be a dominant person!") Practise social dominance - ask for what you want, in a non-obsequious but polite manner - refuse requests that inconvenience you in the same way Read Dr. Robert Glover's "No More Mr. Nice…
/r/TheRedPill23/07/13 08:47 PM
1

I don't think red pill thinking applies to this one, as we deal in generalities that are true for most men & women, and this one damaged woman is clearly outside the curve. But... I think the OP in AskMen was a white knight who thought he could "fix" this person with his niceguy compassion... Which is kind of bullshit. He really needed to get her professional help. She was pretty clearly (in my non-credentialed opinion) suffering from PTSD.
/r/TheRedPill23/07/13 06:05 PM
1

For starters, read this - the relevant part is where he talks about taking a meditation class. If you do something like exercise everyday it becomes a habit. If it's a habit for long enough it becomes part of your identity. Then you almost don't have to motivate yourself, you just kind of exercise every day without thinking about it much. I imagine this would be generalizable to approaching women. You can make it part of your identity, you just have to do it a lot. Everything I've read on the ma…
/r/TheRedPill23/07/13 05:52 PM
3

It's fun to make cynical jokes about this sort of thing, but it's also a real problem with modern dating. The Manosphere has helpful advice for women struggling with their own hypergamy: http://theprivateman.wordpress.com/2011/10/27/a-dating-exercise-for-women/ http://theredpillroom.blogspot.ca/2012/12/girl-game-why-its-not-hopeless.html
/r/TheRedPill23/07/13 05:43 PM
1

| I might try to flirt with her friends, something I've never done simply because I didn't want to, maybe the dread will kick in though. To be clear, the best thing is to get IOIs without having to induce them. This a) demonstrates your high mating value b) engages her preselection and c) revs her hamster up. Dread is a tricky thing in married game - if you flirt with other people, it's just you being disloyal. If women flirt with you, well, you can't control their behaviour (but the message is …
/r/TheRedPill23/07/13 05:28 PM
3

You seem to be doing everything wrt to sex correctly: -responding to rejection by leaving to do something manly -rewarding good behaviour with a bit of beta comfort building Contrary to other advice in this thread, pushing past coyness to either a hard "no" or compliance is standard-issue advice for married game - this may be counter-indicated in singles game due to the ever-present threat of a rape accusation (a reasonable concern) - in marriage, you have a sufficient level of trust established…
/r/TheRedPill23/07/13 02:31 AM
1

I'm very skeptical that this doc will add anything useful to the conversation about post -industrial masculinity. Hard to say from a short trailer, but it looks like more of the same "express your emotions, men! " tripe that we've been fed since Donahue and Alan Alda. Of course, what they really mean is "express yourself in the manner we want you to, men! " You know what I bet they won't talk about in this doc? The role of divorce and single motherhood as a contributing factor to the alienation …
/r/TheRedPill19/07/13 03:22 AM
1

Alternate hypothesis, which can only be applied to some subset of men: It's a stereotype that all men are sociosexually unrestricted - men fall somewhere on skewed distributions of "dads" & "cads" as a primary reproductive strategy. If you are a strong "dad "type, paternity certainty is going to be your main concern, because paternal investment is "expensive" and a high -N woman is a bad bet. Or, in non-evo psych terms, some men simply don't pursue serial monogamy or ONS's, feel a strong calling…
/r/TheRedPill19/07/13 03:07 AM
1

kids
/r/TheRedPill17/07/13 02:24 AM
4

So... My wife & I punched each other's v-card. She wanted to wait some months before PiV, and I complied - she was obviously into me, it's a big deal for a girl, yadda yadda, and we were having fun exploring "everything but" at any rate. We didn't know what our future was, back then, but we were emotionally connected when we had sex, and it turned out our future was marriage and kids. How common is this? I thought for a long time we were extreme outliers, but turns out this was just pluralistic …
/r/RedPillWomen13/07/13 05:14 AM
13

Video games provide dopamine, but they aren't tethered to any real life achievements. You want to get dopamine from analog accomplishments, not digital ones. (I still game myself, but very limited in time)
/r/TheRedPill11/07/13 07:00 PM
3

You should also probably sign up on the MMSL forum as there's lots of good support & advice there. The accepted formula (approximate) on timeframe is for every year you've been a beta schlub, you need a month to dig yourself out. It's also accepted wisdom that your sex life doesn't get any better then when you were first dating (but exceptions exist). Good luck.
/r/TheRedPill11/07/13 06:56 PM
1

The advice here is always good. I'll add one thing: Optimize for maturity. "Maturity" being defined as - being able to understand, make and concede to rational argument, the ability to compromise on preferences, can exercise delayed gratification and make sacrifices.
/r/TheRedPill11/07/13 06:46 PM
2

"if we turn 30 we are marrying each other," Translation: You'll do when I hit the wall, but you're definitely plan B.
/r/TheRedPill09/07/13 03:07 PM
1

That may be, but I would argue there are boundary conditions wrt to parental rearing that have a larger impact then twin studies would reveal. I think the OP highlights one. You might also update on this, which explains how co-dependant behaviours develop (which greatly resembles "nice guy" syndrome).
/r/RedPillWomen08/07/13 04:39 PM
1

It's personality traits like introversion, or agreeableness, that are heritable in the proportion you quote. "Beta male" isn't a personality trait.
/r/RedPillWomen07/07/13 07:27 PM
1

Yes - the legal system is low-hanging fruit, and there are signs it is changing with joint-custody become more common in more states.
/r/RedPillWomen07/07/13 07:24 PM
2

True - but MGTOWs & MRAs have not much use for the alpha/beta dichotomy. My standard-issue take/advice is that yes the base rate of failed marriages is awful but you can shift those percentages in your favour by very carefully vetting/selecting your wife. I mean, if you're a PUA you have to put with some base rate of contracting STDs and false-rape accusations and the like so it's not like any lifestyle choice is risk-free...
/r/RedPillWomen07/07/13 07:22 PM
1

Everything here is true, but needs to be understood in context. The PUA segment of the red pill/manosphere is completely disinterested in revalourizing fatherhood. They are primarily interested in (to put it indelicately) fucking their way through all the women in their 20's who are delaying marriage. So, to this segment, any man who would get married is by definition accepting a bad deal with a woman and therefore is a beta. I sympathize with this outlook somewhat, although I'm trying my best t…
/r/RedPillWomen07/07/13 04:42 PM
4

Yes - the hotel scene feels like a pitch-perfect portrayal of a woman's repulsion at sex with a low-quality man. Pretty gut wrenching.
/r/TheRedPill07/07/13 03:39 PM
0

From your OP: I've been lifting regularly (seeing good results), working towards independent creative goals, and will be starting a full-time job in a few weeks. This would be evidence to the contrary. But I know the feeling, and I think it's common among people who graduate college, because you feel yourself going from unlimited options and freedom, to a much more narrow set of options.
/r/TheRedPill07/07/13 03:34 PM
0

On the other hand, I have no clue what she's doing, if she's even found someone/others, etc., or is even thinking remotely the same things as me. A few people have told me I'm too cool for her and could do better Why is this information salient to the question of what it is you want to do? My advice (FWIW) is to not do anything WRT this situation until you figure out what goal you're going to drive for. "not do anything" includes trying to force yourself to make a decision. There's an opportunit…
/r/TheRedPill07/07/13 03:18 PM
2

My read: You've paid-bonded to this woman, and that takes time to break out of. First of all: What do you want? If the answer to that is, you don't want to be with this woman, consider just cutting her out of your life. Pair-bonding is a powerful emotional force and you're just confusing yourself by trying to remain "friends."
/r/TheRedPill07/07/13 02:47 PM
17

Here's how it works in bullet points: Male sexuality sees women as essentially fungible. On some level, pussy is pussy. Female sexuality wants to see the man she's fucking as "special." If he's not awesome, why is she leasing out her womb to him, at great personal cost & sacrifice to her? Females see male commitment as fungible. Resources are resources. Males want to see the woman they commit to as "special," and it's super-important she is absolutely in love with him. If she's not awesome and w…
/r/TheRedPill07/07/13 02:42 PM
5

Here is a (IMO) pretty insightful article on the psychology of the men's infatuation with the "Manic Pixie Dream Girl." On a personal level, I did find a woman with whom I can discuss ideas, intellectual stuff, &etc and have sex with. But I absolutely had a few co-dependancy issues, nice guy syndrome, conflict avoidance, &etc. and once I fixed all that crap our relationship got stronger, more passionate, &etc. The broad message of TRP is true: what is truly attractive in a man is all the old-fas…
/r/TheRedPill07/07/13 02:31 PM
1

I thought about it for a while, and still haven't come to anything conclusive, so I'll just thank you for your candor, and for presenting an alternative hypothesis (I've thought for a while this was all due to women's dual mating strategy, for now I'm going with an ignorance prior between that and what you describe - something never quite sat right with me not having access to one's own subjective state)
/r/TheRedPill07/07/13 04:11 AM
3

As far as attraction goes, basically ya.
/r/TheRedPill05/07/13 10:15 PM
11

At the heart: -females try to get the most attractive guy they can -determining this: female attraction triggers are statistically tightly clustered around certain traits (for any given trait, NAWALT, but for the aggregate group, AWALT) -females do not have introspective access to their own attraction triggers ("Watch what they do, don't listen to what they say") the PUA is seeing a confirmation bias because the women he filtered out are actually not X I think there's something to this, when it …
/r/TheRedPill05/07/13 07:27 PM
7

TyphonBlue is very insightful and a great thinker - her "Threat Narrative" series on youtube was a serious game-changer for me. In a very short time she showed me all the toxic ways our culture treats masculinity, and I've working on noticing and ejecting how I've internalized that ever since.
/r/TheRedPill05/07/13 06:59 PM
10

My analysis: A woman who announces her intention to pursue a short-term mating strategy, then gets black-out drunk, needs to be protected. A man who fails to protect her, or who takes her stated intention at face-value, is a creeper. This is basically classic hypoagency for females, and hyperagency for males. We used to have words to refer to women who openly announce their intention to pursue a short-term mating strategy, but we decided all that was bad. We still have shaming language for males…
/r/TheRedPill05/07/13 03:16 PM
2

Although generally applied rules like "never say no" or "say no only when conditions x y & z are met" can work, IMO, the central issue is which beach are you. It's not the occasional Pussy Night Off that's a problem, it's the long-term average, plus the tone of the rejection that are indicators of trouble.
/r/RedPillWomen04/07/13 05:07 PM
-1

My take - if you are fighting with your partner in a LTR because of communication break-downs, this type of thing is very helpful. This type of sharing is also good comfort- and rapport-building ("good beta"). However, it's it's counter-indicated if you are in a relationship with someone who's BSC (Cluster B, narcissism, whatever) since making yourself vulnerable in this manner is giving them a weapon with which to hurt you.
/r/TheRedPill03/07/13 11:51 PM
-3

How can I make her leave her stupid job and spend time with me? I feel like if I had a spine, we'd already be at the level where she's begging for my cock and at least staying home on her days off. What am I doing wrong here? Arg - OK, look, you're unintentionally buying into the /r/TheBluePill propaganda about this sub. The Red Pill is not some esoteric mind-control scheme. You can't "make" anybody do anything in the sense that you mean it here. What you can do is make it known what your expect…
/r/TheRedPill26/06/13 04:09 AM
3

We're only seeing half of the relationship - it's possible the husbands of some of these women are sexless, desperate and miserable. Or it could be there are no children in play (which could be where "stuff gets real" when it comes to the wisdom of traditional gender roles). All that aside - the definition of "equal relationship" could be broad, and the distribution of dominant and submissive personality traits is broad (though skewed towards male dominance). So you can see how a couple might ne…
/r/RedPillWomen25/06/13 08:58 PM
9

Plausibly deniable mockery is pretty much the way to go. Treat it like a shit test. 1) the easiest response, which requires no thought but is a simple way to assert yourself, is to display mock, highly exaggerated umbrance - all you have to say is "Excuse me, not finished here!" Or, agree and amplify - "Oh, no go ahead, I'm sure what you have to say is much more fascinating than that boring crap we were just talking about..." Or, go for cheeseball wit - "Whoa! Conversationus interruptus!" Import…
/r/TheRedPill25/06/13 01:55 PM
2

Going further, the raising of SMV is a positive side-effect of making your life better. So your goal isn't getting sex, your goal is a good life. The sex comes on it's own. Sex you didn't have to chase after is, in my experience, better sex anyway. (I'm cribbing most of this stuff from Athol Kay's new book, I should point out. Which is worth a read.)
/r/TheRedPill23/06/13 04:54 PM
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