What are your opinions of sisyphus55?

New-Friendship-4089 · 2023-01-25T17:29:45+00:00

This is such a derogatory term, healthy masculinity. What do you think a world that has the term healthy masculine without its counterpart healthy feminine looks like? How does it treat its boys and men?

We don't do that here. Maybe the folks in r/MensLib would like to be liberated from their privilege and unlearn all of the different ways this patriarchal society made them misogynistic.

motogek · 2023-01-25T18:02:35+00:00

He's frank about the workings of the liberal principle that sex and nationality aren't real, that it's immoral and oppressive to take these categorizations seriously, but that since people persist in having sentimental attachments to these categories, which admittedly can add some spice and variety to life, we'll allow those attachments but only superficially. That kind of liberalism permits a nationalism where everyone waves their differently-colored flags at the World Cup, but not a nationalism where nations believe themselves to be a people with a past and a future and a right to identify and advocate for their own interests. That kind of liberalism allows men (and indeed women) to dress up like lumberjacks and tend the barbecue, but as he says, it's an aesthetic that can be put on and taken off.

But people get bored and discouraged by the superficial, backboneless liberal versions of conventional attachments. Where's the satisfaction in being a man if it's only dressup and everyone knows it? The liberal of course isn't sorry for men who feel that they're missing out on masculinity (those men should just get with the times and discard their useless harmful attachment to hegemonic masculinity) , but what about FtM trans people, who desire the "gender euphoria" where they're not only dressing up as the gender but that they are the gender.

And then it starts to get Eastern-Wisdomy. If I get the idea, the problem is that dressing up and pretending doesn't really convince you or anyone else, but the answer isn't that you should strive to truly become what you had been pretending to be. Rather, that you need to learn how to pretend properly. The correct way to pretend is whole-heartedly like a child, who is fully in the moment, in the role, and then when playing the role no longer serves a purpose can leave that role behind without any attachment or loss. Still doesn't sound convincing.

https://ozconservative.blogspot.com/2013/05/so-no-real-men-then.html

The bit of this which is significantly true is that men shouldn't respond blindly to calls on their masculinity. That would, indeed, make men vulnerable to manipulation by vested interests. It would be a weakness rather than a strength.

... It is not "empowering" to tell someone that the only possibility is to self-define. If masculinity (or personhood) has no meaning except that which I give to it, then it means that it is just made up and it loses greatly in significance.

The traditionalist position is that masculinity does exist as a kind of life principle; that this principle is expressed in the character of men; that it is possible for a community to recognise and to encourage ideal forms of masculinity; that men feel a positive sense of fulfilment the more they live through these ideals; and that masculinity creates a positive connection between identity, social role and higher values.

It is often in men's interests to be challenged to live up to ideals of masculinity. The difficulties that men have to meet in adult life aren't going away, so the strength of character that has traditionally been cultivated in men still needs to exist. Why deprive a younger generation of men of the culture of masculinity that will allow them to succeed in their adult lives?

https://archive.is/TLyiT

The reimaginers of masculinity have realized, perhaps subconsciously, that men still want to feel like men. To humor men and better acclimate them to a captive, powerless existence, the reimaginers have taken it upon themselves to decorate the cage a bit. They have attempted to provide safe narratives that offer men the feel of expressing a virtual virility without the danger it poses to the interests of women and the status quo. They have brainstormed for ways to empower men without actually giving them any real power. To pacify man, they offered him only the “mother-may-I” masculinities most compatible with the interests of women....

Is it better for a man to be “open” or circumspect?

Is it better for a man to be “vulnerable” or invulnerable?

Is it better for a man to have high group status or low group status?

Is it better for a man to be successful or unsuccessful?

Is it better for a man to be tough or delicate?

Is it better for a man to be confident or apprehensive?

Is it better for a man to be self-reliant or dependent?

Is it better for a man to be aggressive or passive?

Is it better for a man to be violent or non-violent?

Is it better for a man to be daring or fearful?

Each of these questions can be asked independently, and the “best” answers will vary according to one’s philosophical disposition and the situation at hand. We could speak in Yoda sensei-voices and come up with unexpected, ponderous answers. We could cite exceptions to general rules and instances of “too much of a good thing.” But if we refer back to the list of predictions for male mammals in which selection is greater on males, we will see that many of these manly virtues are associated with biological differences between the sexes, and “our culture’s positive prescription for masculinity” encourages behaviors that have helped men compete successfully against other men. Our inherited masculine ideal is the stern but sound advice of our forefathers. It is “nurture” working in harmony with “nature.”

Title	What are your opinions of sisyphus55?
Author	Wooden-Win-1361
Upvotes	0
Comments	2
Date	January 25, 2023 4:02 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/10l230b/what_are_your_opinions_of_sisyphus55/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/what-are-your-opinions-of-sisyphus55.1150279 https://theredarchive.com/post/1150279

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