A lot of you will hate me for saying this but I am being honest with you.

k6eqj · 2014-03-08T19:13:54+00:00

The only problem with what your saying is that elites use genetic determinism to keep people underneath in place, even though, through the process of epigenetics, beneficial genetic changes can be made to take place over relatively short periods of time.

And this is a BIG problem.

Genetic determinism tells people who don't look like Brad Pitt to give up, instead of say, going to the gym and trying to chisel themselves a Brad Pitt figure at the very least.

You'll hear fat people say, "I'm because genetics, therefore I can keep eating donuts guilt free because I have no power over my body, it's all outside of my control."

I went from being a complete runt to getting lots of action as soon as I stopped coasting on my genes, or so-called inate abilities and using them as an excuse.

I used to think I was just naturally unathletic. In reality, I was merely not a natural, but more importantly, mostly focused on sedentary activities involving the imagination. I watched a lot of TV and didn't play a lot of sports. When I got older, I got frustrated with myself and started lifting weights. Then I started to look like a man. Now people assume I'm an athlete because of my physique, which isn't even that great, but still better than all the blobs walking around out there.

Now, none of this matters if you're born with horrible deformities. There, the person has a nearly insurmountable mountain to climb.

But most average people aren't help by genetic determinism, and debating over which has more influence is a waste of time from a practical standpoint. Better to get out there and start improving.

k6eqj · 2014-03-08T21:02:49+00:00

Look, there is discrimination against African Americans in the job market. It exists and studies prove it. But that's no excuse to sit at home all day if you're black.

2comment · 2014-03-08T21:06:56+00:00

I can only play the cards I'm dealt.

czabak · 2014-03-08T20:16:46+00:00

I've just finished reading Horation Nelson's biography (by John Sugden, good reading btw.). His parents were physically weak, several of his siblings died during birth on in infancy. Nelson himself as a kid was of fragile constitution, quiet and showed little talent for anything. He continuously suffered from various health problems, even before contracting malaria in India, which only made things worse. He was known for being socially awkward - hardly a candidate for being alpha or having good genes.

However, Nelson had outstanding male role models in his uncle, captain Maurice Suckling and later Samuel Hood, John Jervis etc. Years of service among such men showed him importance of hard work, discipline, courage and genuine skill in his trade. He also naturally possesed burning desire to achieve and eventually became on of the greatest naval officers in history (keeping a couple of mistresses along the way).

Nelson's story doesn't mean that genes are not important, but it shows us that every man is given a set of cards (genes) to play with and nobody can tell, which one will eventually prevail (in nelson's case motivation and discipline). Thus, even if a man doesn't possess traits that are generally recognized as a prerequisite for reaching high position in social hierarchy, he must work hard and take advantage of all powers at his disposal to find out, if he can reach alpha status or not.

I see aroud me plenty of guys, who were naturally gifted as kids in various fields, but most of them never reached significance. Unlike Nelson, they didn't have strong male role models, who would show them ways to utilize their talents and climb up the social ladder (and thus become more attractive to females). This is where the red pill comes in.

2014-03-08T20:44:19+00:00

This is an excellent post. A bit of Red Pill for TRP sub. Game really can only take you so far, a lot of people can become discouraged by this. Let them, if you are discouraged by the truth then you are living in the wrong universe. Life isn't fair, and it largely doesn't give a fuck about you. You have to carve out your own way in the world, and play the hand you're dealt to the best of your ability. I enjoyed reading this post a lot. Thanks for writing it.

k6eqj · 2014-03-08T20:17:06+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Hughtub · 2014-03-08T22:48:00+00:00

This is good analysis.

RedPope · 2014-03-09T00:19:46+00:00

OP: Thank you for inspiring me to write. These thoughts have been on my mind for some time. I do not disagree with you. But there is a lot more to be said.

The Past

Prior to civilization, we lived by primate rules. Smaller groups. There was one and only one Alpha. He kept all the women. His reign was often brief, but he was usually the only male reproducing.

Excess males were outcast or killed young. The Alpha allowed only a couple young males to reach sexual maturity and remain with the pack. They were constant rivals, ready and waiting to take the Alpha spot, but the pack needed them. They helped to protect against other packs and rogue males.

Then came civilization. Humans defeated the wild. We surpassed the base limitations of hunger and survival. Populations exploded. Packs became tribes. More advances were made, and tribes became towns. Then cities, states, nations and empires. Now we're transitioning to globalization.

The Present

All those old instincts still exist and still govern our behavior. With one major exception: Excess males are no longer killed. They survive and grow to maturity. New societal concepts, such as marriage and monogamy, allowed more and more of these men to pass their genes along.

What prehistory labeled genetically gifted males are now commonplace. We are the winners. The product of the great breeding program of prehistory. The one Alpha is gone. The genetic bottleneck has been opened. Even in our modern society, with easy and effective birth control now available, 40% of males still manage to reproduce.

Once a privilege reserved to the one Alpha, reproduction is now claimed by 40% of all males. A club so easy to join, that many stumble into it by accident. A club so eager for members that women will trick, manipulate, and pressure you into joining.

Look again at OP's description of a genetically gifted male. Doesn't seem that extraordinary to me. I'd say the average guy has many or most of those traits. And since 40% are reproducing, clearly women agree. In our modern era, genetically gifted can be regarded as above-average.

The Red Pill

But here's the twist. Most of us are not trying to join that club. Reproduction is now a choice. A choice most of us have chosen to reject, or at least, to postpone. We are pursuing sex without reproduction. Sex without marriage. Sex for recreation. A game.

Genetically gifted males are common, so it isn't surprising that most men will have occasional success when pursuing recreational sex. But some men are having greater success. It has been well established that 20% of men are having 80% of sex. These top "players" are now being popularly labeled, incorrectly and misleadingly, as alphas.

What makes them better? When we compare our genetically gifted (aka above-average) male with occasional success, against this top player, what is the difference? Surprisingly, it isn't about who has the most genetic gifts. Once you surpass the baseline, it doesn't seem to matter who is the most gifted. Instead, the difference comes down to effort, skill, and behavior.

The Hopeless

Now, if the male is below-average, only possessing a few of the genetically gifted traits, he may have to work and sacrifice (beta bucks) for the opportunity to join that 40% Breeder Club the rest of us chose to scorn. Poor guy. Sex without reproduction is out of his reach entirely, right?

Not necessarily. Look at the list of genetically gifted traits again. Some are innate (symmetrical facial features and height), but others can be earned (muscular and intelligence) or at least improved (health and deep voice).

Can the below-average guy can work to become above-average? Absolutely. Thousands of success stories in our small community already. Below-average guys who worked hard and now obtain occasional success pursuing recreational sex.

Can the below-average guy work even harder and somehow become one of these top 20% of men? Maybe. There are a few success stories, but they're hard to prove and easily discredited. It would take a lot of work, and there's no guarantee of success.

Your innate genetics traits may ultimately limit how high you can climb, but until you hit that ceiling, the best strategy is to keep climbing. And if you do hit that ceiling, give it a few hard thumps. Maybe you can raise it, just a little bit more.

FortunateBum · 2014-03-09T01:07:52+00:00

I think I've looked at the same evidence you have and I have to disagree. I think all the evidence shows that women are overwhelmingly attracted to status. Status = more resources for their offspring. You should also study fetal development. The health of the child is overwhelmingly dependent on the health of the mother. The father has contributed genes, the mother everything else for 9 months.

Second, I think the scientific evidence for the dual mating strategy is not great. And, even if it does exist, why would chance of faked paternity go up as you go up the socio-economic ladder as much data suggest? Does rich = genetic superiority? I don't think this could possibly be true.

Symmetry. Look up the research. It's not very convincing. Some have even suggested that all the symmetry research is regressing to the mean. Not good.

Intelligence? Look up the data. Overwhelmingly the data suggests that women are turned off by intelligence. Intelligent men get laid less. The have fewer babies. More educated men (and women) have fewer babies. I would dare you to find one dataset that correlates intelligence with sex frequency, partner frequency or fecundity, because as far as I've seen, none do.

Sense of humor. There's absolutely no evidence that women like this trait except they say it. Even Patrice O'Neil doubted it.

Creativity. There is some evidence that "creative" people have more sex and more partners, but this could be due to their greater degree of openness. As someone who's hung out with artists, it only takes a few slutty artist chicks in a group to make every guy's average go up.

Height. Height is directly correlated with health, class, nutrition, status in other words. Height is clearly a status indicator in my opinion.

Muscularity. This could be considered a Veblen good. Again, a status indicator.

Deep voice. Ok, this one might be something genetic.

Game = signifying (or faking) your status. Most guys have a good degree of status if they're looking to fuck women. You just have to figure out how to advertise it properly. That's where game comes in. Most guys will benefit from game without even faking anything. You just have to understand that all women care about is status and game is advertising your status. A woman on your level will be attracted. I guarantee.

Title	A lot of you will hate me for saying this but I am being honest with you.
Author	k6eqj
Upvotes	5
Comments	17
Date	March 8, 2014 6:53 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1zwoku/a_lot_of_you_will_hate_me_for_saying_this_but_i/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/a-lot-of-you-will-hate-me-for-saying-this-but-i-am.12338 https://theredarchive.com/post/12338

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