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These Numbers

Cleril_
April 22, 2014
0 upvotes
/r/RedPillWomen
Archived from /r/RedPillWomen

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Post Information
Title These Numbers
Author

Cleril_
Upvotes 0
Comments 28
Date April 22, 2014 11:19 AM UTC
(12 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/23o55t/these_numbers/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/these-numbers.165342
https://theredarchive.com/post/165342
Top posts by Cleril_

This Reddit's Thoughts on TheRedPill and RedPillWomen

9 upvotes
April 22, 2014
/r/MGTOW

Comments

[–]TempestTcup4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

There is a lot more subscribers to TRP because they have been around a lot longer and because, frankly, men have more to gain from taking the red pill.

The women here are only different because they are TRYING. Some of us are older and married, and have found that the red pill model of relationships, with Captain/First Officer, makes for a much more harmonious relationship.

This sub has a lot of young women who are lost and looking. They may or may not eventually get the relationship they are looking for, but at least they do have the building blocks for a decent future.

We aren't here for you to "trust"; as a man you have to be on your toes and take the lead (or not as a MGTOW), otherwise we won't respect you as much. If you get into a relationship with a woman you have to be the man, whether the woman is red pill or not.

One of the main things we advocate, besides not being a slut, is to add value to our relationships by looking good, being sweet, interesting, and non-confrontational (hahaha, the tough one!), serving our man, and being an enthusiastic helpmate.

[–]Cleril_[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

I think you missed the point a bit but I may have been unclear due to limited time to post. I can clearly see women here "trying" but I question the motive as to why women are trying. To my understanding it seems like TheRedPill (specifically just to reddit) is more of a pickup artist still playing a game (albeit a game they control maybe) but they still cater to women. I see RedPillWoman as basically being a woman who knows what she is and is fine with that.

The problem with that is that still doesn't help me understand how women would still be worth bothering with. That is, men give women the world, you give us pleasant company (which we can get from men) and sex (which we can do involuntarily do without).

I want to be clear that we're not opposing each other. I would love for a woman to come into my life and not be a leech. However, it seems that RedPillWoman is still leeching off of men.

MGTOW is taking the lead. The lead just doesn't involve women (although I currently am a MGTOW willing to be in a relationship so long as I'm the leader). What you said basically tells me that in order for you to respect me I have to not trust you? I have to be on my toes in order for you to respect me? What? I have to still walk on eggshells just so you'll have sex and not be a bother?

Still seems like a raw deal.

To my understanding men want a slut. We just want a private slut (unless the man is into swinging).

You add to the relationship by:

Looking good (which isn't remotely a challenge for you and something men have to work for via working out while you at best have to put on makeup which I personally don't care for)

Being sweet (I get this by default with men, why should I have to do anything to get it from you?)

Interesting (Even though all women are like that. Seems a bit hypocritical to say the least.)

Non-confronttational (You do realize there is a healthy way to be confrontational, right? The problem with women is that they only ever be difficult when being confrontational. Men are direct)

Serving our man (And what can you do besides cook, clean, and fuck? Two of these I can do myself)

Enthusiastic helpmate (What does that even mean? And is the enthusiasm genuine or just a ploy?)

Again, we're on the same team. As Patrice O'Neal said (I may be paraphrasing): "I want a woman to invade my world and not suck."

I'm failing to see how ultimately women here are worth any effort considering it still seems like you want to play a game. Even though the game is already over.

[–]TempestTcup7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Also, why do you care? If you are going your own way, then GO.

[–]Cleril_[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I care because I'd like to envision a future where women aren't extinct. If all men go our own way (and the number of us is growing) then ultimately you don't get a LTR.

And without a LTR you clearly suffer. Otherwise you wouldn't be here.

[–]TempestTcup4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I just don't see men GTOWing in huge numbers - there have always been some, of course, one of my uncles did. Maybe it is the difference between living in a city on a coast and living in the middle of flyover land, but where I live, in the middle of the country, I see TONS of long term successful relationships. I see a lot of men who enjoy being in relationships with women.

Maybe the women are different here; it is a lot more conservative; heck, we don't even have slut walks here, LOL!

[–]TempestTcup4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Sorry, I had to remove your post - what you are doing here isn't constructive to our girls, and you are really bitter and whiny. Also don't come on here saying you can buy women with money. That's gross.

[–]Cleril_[S] -4 points-3 points-2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I said fuck dolls and maids/mistresses can be bought.

Not women.

[–]TempestTcup4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Read the sidebar. Holy cow, everyone comes on here "what are you all about?" IT'S RIGHT THERE IN ALL THOSE LINKS ON THE SIDEBAR!!!!!!

[–]Cleril_[S] -3 points-2 points-1 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well the information there obviously isn't the end all of it. That's like me handing you the bible and saying "just read the foot notes of Genesis and that's all you need."

[–]sansurnt1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

In what what way does a man give a woman the world? I see both men and women giving themselves the world. It's there to take and experience together.

[+]Cleril_[S] -8 points-7 points-6 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Men give women the basis for living. Men created the world, invented the world, and maintain the world.

Let me put it this way:

Men are Kings, who they marry is brought up to their level, kings.

Women are Queens, who they marry is going to be the same exact thing that she married.

As the women said it themselves here, RPW are made.

Men? Men be. That grow and are refined, yes. However, they are not made by women.

Who invented TRP? Was it a woman? No.

Woman here again said it themselves, men have more to gain from the red pill than women do.

RPW are ONLY interesting for the man.

Men are interesting because they're men.

[–]sansurnt1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

But this does not apply in modern society. Women nowadays are making themselves as for the first time in forever they are economically independent. Women are no longer made by men. Men aren't made by women. This seems to be longing for a time long gone. Many women and men, particualrly in my generation (late teens, early twenties) no longer want to get married. Surely this shows that women no longer need men for status.

[–]Cleril_[S] -3 points-2 points-1 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Women still need men.

If all men chose not to work the world is straight fucked.

If women choose to not work. Well, not much of a loss there.

Women are quite literally made by men. RPW here are telling me just that. Without their leaders, they aren't women or at least what they want to be, RPW. I don't need anything to be a RPM/MGTOW.

I'm asking RPW to tell me if that is changing. It doesn't seem so considering their solution is to go back to traditional roles.

Men don't want to get married due to legal climate.

Women don't want to get married because they eat Feminist bullshit.

MGTOW don't want to get married because we fail to see how women can possibly be worth any effort at all.

I'm just asking RPW what makes them worth anything.

Telling me they're great cooks, bear kids, or service every male need doesn't tell me they're worth anything. It tells me they missed the point.

[–]sansurnt4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

So your mother who birthed you is not worth anything? This sounds like your hamstering towards some sort of inherent superiority which you really do not posses. What do you individually give a woman? You can't just point to other men who have given women something and say therefore I've done it as well. Women can make themselves nowadays for the first time ever and more are choosing to do so by the day. Women don't get married because they literally do not have to. There is plenty of men apart from politicians and police in this country which are worth nothing to women. That doesn't make them worthless on the whole.

[–]Cleril_[S] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

My mother is the same type of woman as the one's here. She's married to my father because she knows she can't live without him.

I'm not pointing to any other man by myself. I only speak for myself. I offer women the world. I mean that quite literally. No, I didn't create the world. However, for them, as said by the women here, I am her world.

More women are also failing at taking care of themselves. Please see modern day society.

Only politcians and police are worth anything to women? Speaks volumes, really, that you think that.

The garbage, construction worker, and coal miner are all worth something to women.

The circumcised babies, like me, are too. After all, I made their facial creams.

What have women done for me? Well, they've lied, abused, used, and disposed of me. That about covers anything. I'm not mad, no.

I'm asking these RPW how they really are different.

From what I'm seeing they're still using and lying to me. They're doing it of their own choice (or lack thereof) sure but they are still using and lying.

Take that as an attack if you will but I'd really like a response as to how they aren't using and lying to us. That's how I see it based on what I've read and based on what they've said.

[–]sansurnt2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You say you offer women the world and then get annoyed when they use it or you? You do not offer women the world, women offer themselves the world. Seriously, we're not in the past where a woman had to marry to be economically independent. From what I see in society around me (not some fantasy land) women do just fine on their own. There's women I know who out earn me and I'll admit seem to be having a happier life than I am. I don't see why they'd need me or any man in this day and age. They can still want a man but in all honesty they have no need. Your mother was born in a time where it was very favourable that women married because, yes, at that time they couldn't live alone or support themselves due to societal restrictions. Things have changed, get used to it.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

there are no "redpill" men or women. men are masculine, women are feminine--in the aggregate. we live in a culture that is distorting human sex differences and roles, that has freed up women to be as feral as their nature dictates, some men are reaping great rewards from this, others are suffering alone.

the question of "finding" redpill men and women are stupid. redpill is UNLEASHED. thats the whole reason behind the matrix allegory, the reality is ALREADY there, its your nature, the PILL just drops the scales from your eyes.

you will never have a "redpill" women unless you want to work at your relatonships and maintain them in the proper frame. even a woman who comes to you pre-redpilled up will lapse into sloth, torpor, disapproval and waspishness if you arent a strong leader. thats life. you can mgtow to not have to deal with it, or find some raw material wife her up and maintain your relationship. thats on you

edit: also, there were less than 1000 subscribers when i joined less than a year ago. for women to be mavericks and buck the herd is one of the hardest thing, they arent men. i tend to think mgtow are overly disappointed to discover women are in fact not little pretty weak men

[–]Cleril_[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And I'm asking whether the women here are really any less feral as their nature dictates.

Women will suck unless I make them not suck? Okay, I already knew that and can get behind that. What I can't get behind is that I have to be a "leader" but still conform to this notion of "game" and such to actually be your leader.

That's the problem. I'm leading you. You don't really get to play games let alone demand much of anything. If I don't lead you then you choose extinction (see: Feminism). You only win when I lead.

I don't see how I really win by leading you however. Especially given I still have to specifically do X/Y/Z in order to make you ultimately not suck.

And I'm using "suck" in the context of Patrice O'Neal. just to be clear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l_mRgSCBAQ

[–][deleted] 5 points5 points5 points 12 years ago | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]TempestTcup1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Very well stated.

[–]theskepticalidealist1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

But all you seem to be are traditionalists. The men that are in TheRedPill sub don't actually like acting that way, otherwise they'd just be PUA or be that way naturally and wouldn't need advice. Thats why so many of them are bitter and hateful about it. From something I read in a post from a user earlier it seem like you aren't against the attitudes and behaviors that piss off TheRedPill or MGTOW that are regularly discussed, and the reason for this sub just seems a selfish one where you believe you must be traditionalist in order to keep a man and keep him happy. It is admirable that you want to be more concerned with his needs but really you also aren't, because you only care to the point where he is fulfilling that traditionalist role you expect of him, still expecting him to fit that role of protector/provider and that if he doesn't you won't respect him. Speaking "as a man" that kind of pressure and expectation is what is going to put me off and want to leave the relationship. You apparent answer to this observation will be tough titties, that's how it is, just don't be in relationships with women. Which is the same exact dismissal you'll see from regular society. In mens rights circules you'll often hear how feminism is just a different form of traditionalism, and it's really no different here.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

responding more

It seems both still cater to women and RedPillWomen basically seem to espouse that "we're not so different" and basically sell themselves as the best fuck dolls

you could not have read our sub and come to this conclusion so i am going to assume you are another feminist-like spergatron who constructs strawmen over what you THINK you will disagree with and then gleefully sets about knocking them down.

we are about primarily successful LTR here, not being "fuckdolls". the publishing of this post is being reconsidered

[–]Cleril_[S] -3 points-2 points-1 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I assure you I am no Feminist. I could provide proof but then I'd be advertising my youtube channel.

I also assure you I'm on the same side. I would love for women to come into my life and be a fantastic addition to it.

All I see these two reddits advocating is straight traditionalism. That isn't really what I would agree is "red pill." I see TheRedPill still advocating to use game and RedPillWoman still advocating to be ultimately nothing more than good fuck dolls.

Take what TempestTCup said:

Looking good (which isn't remotely a challenge for you and something men have to work for via working out while you at best have to put on makeup which I personally don't care for)

Being sweet (I get this by default with men, why should I have to do anything to get it from you?)

Interesting (Even though all women are like that. Seems a bit hypocritical to say the least.)

Non-confronttational (You do realize there is a healthy way to be confrontational, right? The problem with women is that they only ever be difficult when being confrontational. Men are direct)

Serving our man (And what can you do besides cook, clean, and fuck? Two of these I can do myself)

Enthusiastic helpmate (What does that even mean? And is the enthusiasm genuine or just a ploy?)

Maybe you aren'y advocating to be fuck dolls. Maybe you're advocating to be maids/mistresses.

Either way, I can buy those with money, not what you seem to be asking for, which is time.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I said you were LIKE a feminist in your construction of strawmen, not that you were one

Nobody faults you for being mgtow, But my husband and most men are not mgtows. they actually enjoy being loved, adored, admired, smiled at, hugged and kissed, having a daily companion who listens to him and also sex on demand from a person who really knows him and what he likes. He Also knows how to inspire and maintain those things in women and doesn't feel like it's some big insurmountable burden in getting what he wants.

Good luck to you in your mgtow journey.

[–]theskepticalidealist1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

How can you talk about strawmen and then go and say that MGOTWs don't like affection from women? Really? Is that the picture you managed to glean from all this? You say you really know him (you partner) and maybe you do know him, but the point is women don't want to care or know men if they aren't fitting that protector provider role, where his worth is rooted in his ability to be useful to her.

If RedPillWoman want to change the game they should be progressive, not looking back at being the doting quiet respectful housewife that also enjoys being submissive and fragile. Men like if they can feel useful because they know that's all woman value them for. All you're doing is saying yes, thats true, and we're going to dial that expectation up to 11, but don't worry we'll offer you sex and housework in exchange. If we are going to take the Red Pill analogy and run with it, it is like if Neo took the Red Pill and then said he likes The Matrix and wants to go help the machines make an even better more efficient one.

[–]Cleril_[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I too enjoy being loved, adored, admired, smiled at, hugged, and kissed.

I'm asking why should I have to inspire and mantain a woman to get those things?

Feminism claims women are equal.

PUA say women are machines you can turn on and off.

MGTOW (at least me) says we expect more from women and please provide us a reason to care.

RedPillWoman seems to, as you just said, offer a daily companion who listens to him and provides sex on demand.

To me, a MGTOW, that doesn't sound like a companion. That sounds like a leech. As I said, I question the motivation behind TheRedPill and RedPillWomen. It all just seems like a variation of PUA which still caters to women and still allows women to provide less than what men are providing.

i.e, traditionalism.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

yes women also have their own wants needs and desires. neither men or women are just chesspieces on the other sexes board. men and women trade each others wants needs and desires to get a modicum of their own met. this is perfectly normal. you have to "inspire" it because thats how humans are made. again you are "like a feminist" "waaaa why should i have to look a certain way to get a man to love me!!! i should just be able to 'be myself' and be loved waaa". well, thats how the humans are, tough titty, you dont get loved for being you. if i gained 200 pounds and chopped my hair off and grew a mustache i wouldnt get loved for being me either. you are railing against human nature, we are accepting it and dealing with it so that men and women are able to get the most of what they want and need from each OTHER as they can.

like i said, mgtow it up, no one will judge you for it here, we understand, and most modern women are totally worthless.

[–]theskepticalidealist-1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Actually you would easily find lots of men who would love you if you did that. The question is what kind of man would you find, how would he look, what's his job, what's his status, etc.Men however do not have such luxury, they must fit the box. Here in RedPillWoman, all I see is a progation of the gender roles and expectations that created MGTOW and /r/TheRedPill in the first place. Yes, traditionalism offered men a reward, even back in the day, but it still sucked.

You say most modern women are worthless, implying what you advocate isn't. Id say it's only marginally better because you just offer a carrot to the workhorse once and awhile. This might impress regular men because they aren't used to having a carrot at all, but to people like us this is just more of the same.

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