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Ob1000
[–]VanityKing 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
That question is honestly not very important in terms of understanding TRP philosophy. The point that is trying to make is that women are less likely to change their habits by that age as men are, likely because by then they (subconsciously) understand how to manipulate various aspects of their social interactions towards their benefit and rather than improve upon themselves and try to become better understanding individuals, they are led by mainstream media and the feminist movement to rationalize their behaviors as proper regardless of how irrational it may seem. It's always easy to blame someone else, much easier than actually taking responsibility and changing your ways.
[–]Ob1000[S] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Thank you, that was a very helpful explanation.
[–]VanityKing 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
No problem. Stick around or check out TRPwomen and you'll see that most of us aren't women hating mysoginists, but actually observe scientific and biological facts that lead us to logically come to these conclusions.
[–]Ob1000[S] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I can't edit the post cuz I'm not a member so I'll just say it here.
Thanks everyone for letting me pick your brains. This has been a bizarre yet very interesting discussion
[–]friendlysociopathic 4 points4 points4 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
As someone with a degree in Neuroscience from a world top 5 ranked department, it's utter bullshit and one of the ideas found in this sub I totally disagree with.
[–]Ob1000[S] 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
I'm relieved to hear that. Also, I like your username.
[–]scottbutcher2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Exactly. Some of the ideas on this sub are good, but they're the exception. (Insert clever pun about NAMALT here)
[–]friendlysociopathic1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thanks. I am what it says on the tin.
[–]Endorsed ContributorUrsusG1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link
don't mentally or emotionally mature past the age of 18
It's a useful oversimplification to help guys who are here to change their lives.
Most guys here are in their early to mid twenties. They need advice for dealing with women in the same age bracket. Saying "women are still teens emotionally" is a valid approximation for that purpose.
inb4 NAWALT and 'but I know this really mature and wise lady who...'
[–]Ob1000[S] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link
Thanks for the response, I see I may have read too literally. In that case, are you saying that calling the other sex less intelligent (even if it's not correct) is acceptable because it's motivational?
[–]clam61 2 points2 points2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Maturity and intelligence are two different things.
Look at the typical woman. Look at her interpersonal relationships (friends, boyfriends, family); by and large her behaviors here haven't changed much since 18 (or earlier).
There will still be a lack of accountability. A lack of ability to deal with stress. A lack of the ability to think rationally and control emotions.
[–]Ob1000[S] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link
That's my question. How do you defend the generalization that their emotional behaviors haven't changed over the years?
[–]Endorsed ContributorUrsusG2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
We don't defend it. We start by applying it to see if it produces desired results.
If it produces desired results then it can be passed on as advice to other guys.
[–]Ob1000[S] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Ah, I see. So does this change your initial behaviors with women? When you meet women, do you treat them like children? Or only after they display one of a particular list of behaviors?
[–]Endorsed ContributorUrsusG2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I'm not very redpill myself, therefore I still give women the benefit of a doubt and treat them as mature, fair and honest equals at first.
Like I would treat a guy.
It gets corrected really quick.
[–]Ob1000[S] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Well, I'm not sure what to say to that except that I hope you have better experiences in the future.
[–]clam612 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Via observation by having dated over 100 women from different walks of life, observing friends and girlfriends
[–]Endorsed ContributorUrsusG2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
Yes.
It is acceptable because it gets things done, especially for guys fresh out of blue pill indoctrination who are in dire need of simple explanations to makes sense of their failures.
There will be time for subtleties later.
[–]Ob1000[S] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
So if my friend is feeling bad, it's okay for me to tell her that ALL men are stupid and immature? Scapegoating half the population seems like an unhealthy approach to self-improvement.
[–]Endorsed ContributorUrsusG-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link
So if my friend is feeling bad, it's okay for me to tell her that ALL men are stupid and immature?
Isn't this exactly what goes on when girls talk to girls about 'guy problems'?
And yes, it's okay. Your friend will still fuck stupid and immature Chad and then complain about him.
Scapegoating half the population seems like an unhealthy approach to self-improvement.
It's not scapegoating. Once guys have been warned that women are 'emotional teenagers', the onus of responsibility to deal with it accordingly is on them.
It's all about results, not blame.
[–]Ob1000[S] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link
Um, no, it's not what we do. At least not the people I associate with. Because no, it's not okay. I would say, "CHAD is a dick. There are better guys out there."
This sounds more like a control issue, though honestly I haven't read enough about your alpha/beta stuff to really understand how you guys view that.
Edit: I said "Chad is a dick" but that's not the first assumption. Usually it's a communication issue, or her bad judgment.
[–]Endorsed ContributorUrsusG0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link
This sounds more like a control issue,
I don't really see how control plays into this.
It's purely about explaining women in simple terms in order to achieve desired results.
This is something women should understand easily:
Women don't care whether a statement is objectively true. They only care how that statement makes them feel. If it makes them feel good about themselves, it will be regarded as truth. If it makes them feel bad about themselves, it will be twisted, turned, and rationalized away until it stops making the girl feel bad.
By the same token, RP men don't really care if women actually do or don't mature past age 18. As long as this assertion gets them laid, they accept it as the truth, because it produces results for them (i.e. makes them feel good)
Anything more just turns into a philosophical debate.
[–]Ob1000[S] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
See, objective truth is extremely important to me. I'd rather be right than happy any day. Then again, women like me generally care less about sex, so I guess there's your catch-22.
[–]Risky_Clicks_NSFW0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
"The need to be right is a sign of a vulgar mind"
That did come across poorly :/ I didn't mean "right" as in "I win the argument!!!" but as in being that much closer to truly understanding what's going on. I would rather by saddened by the truth than be happy with a lie
[–]Risky_Clicks_NSFW1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
It is important for anyone grow wise and seek knowledge, the issue arises when the person uses wisdom and knowledge like a drunk uses a streetlight. For support rather than illumination.
[–]Risky_Clicks_NSFW0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This brings up an interesting point, the biggest part of the Red Pill Journey is understanding and internalizing that you are responsible for your life, your actions and your results. This is the hardest part for most who go on this journey to accept.
The Red Pill is a Risk Management tool set designed to weed out ANYONE who does not add value to YOUR life, and not sharing your journey. It sets a bar, for you as man to engage the other sex and set and manage expectations for the negotiations that happen in a relationship of any length. The whole point of this community is to share our experiences and create a high tide that will lift all ships, and improve the experience of life for them.
"If you build a better man, you will build a better society"
[–]ven5-2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
It is correct. Women's gain of emotional maturity falls off after 18. She can learn from exp... Oh wait there she goes off with another asshole after she said she was done with them.
It's a bad example, but experience should show you how strong cognitive dissonance is in women. Their ability to rationalize instead of change is also behind this "immaturity." It won't stop them from memorizing a book or a series of formulas, but it will hinder their performance in other areas.
[–]Ob1000[S] 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
"experience should show you how strong cognitive dissonance is in women"
Had to chuckle a little at that, since I am a woman. Frankly if we were going to label a group as having the most cognitive dissonance I would say religious people, which are both genders, but predominantly led by men. I'm not saying men have more dissonance, just a counterpoint.
[–]ven5-2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Of course, it's prevalent in every human at some point. What we do is understand enough only to make it work in our favor, not so much to try to rank people. We're not interested in dissecting women to figure out all truth about them and so it's pointless to ask, as much as it is pointless for a fish to ask a fisherman, the response will always be "that's only true / that only works for the stupid fish."
[–]Hoodwink3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
what is the reasoning behind this claim?
No one expects them to mature / holds them to it, and they generally get a free (pussy) pass for just about everything.
They don't suffer consequences. And if they do, they don't suffer hard - there will always be a dick to land on or women-only services available.
They also have less to understand in long-term relationships. Men aren't picky as a whole.
[–]Ob1000[S] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Can you clarify what you mean by "they have less to understand in long-term relationships?"
[–]fake72721 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
less to understand: they can talk shit, get irrationally angry, treat the man with disrespect and because men nowadays are desperate the man will usually just deal with her issues and not hold her responsible.
if the man DOES hold the girl responsible then the girl will either act like a child and run to her best friend/ beta buck to hear about how she is "like so right" or she will bow to your frame if you showed any in the relationship.
[–]Ob1000[S] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Well I disagree that most women behave that way, but I do agree that it's destructive behavior and not conducive to a healthy relationship. The second paragraph seems unrelated. It's an illustration of the fact that women tend to be more social than men and discuss everything with others, not just their problems.
[–]fake72720 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
after re-reading your question, I have another possible answer.
men are the gate keepers on commitment. because men are desperate, they will like a cute girl, get one-itus and then ask for a LTR. women nowadays have to do zero work in order to be considered LTR material in the eyes of 80% of men. (as long as they are good looking ofcourse).
[–]Ob1000[S] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Hm commitment-keepers that's an interesting phrase. I hope the 20% grows because I was in a LTR with a guy in the 80% once. Hit me pretty hard when I figured it out :/
[–]Hoodwink0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
The basic relationship men want with women is a trustworthy friend with sex (with a bit of 'mommy' for some men). There's very few 'games' men play in this line. There's no subterfuge. There's no figuring out what she actually means or why she's angry or why this dream upset her. There's no 'does this dress make me look fat?" tests. Men are just less demanding overall than women. Basically, the question is - can you be worthy, trustworthy friend to a male? They don't have to work for positives - they just have to work to get away from being negative. They don't need to be funny - they just need to get jokes. They don't need to have money, just not to be a total leech. They can be insecure for much, much longer - women will generally cut men off pretty early if there's insecurity.
Men as a whole don't make much demands except to keep their dress size intact. Men's expectations overall are pretty damn low as a whole.
[–]Ob1000[S] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I see what you're saying. And it sounds pretty irritating. A lot of those behaviors are holdovers from previous generations though. Taught behavior. They're gender roles, not something indicative of the nature of women themselves. Or was that what you meant?
[–]Hoodwink0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
I really don't think they're gender roles or taught behaviors.
They're just functions of the 'market'. Younger women are much, much higher in demand and men are in oversupply. It's the market of sex/relationships that makes men (as a whole) not demand anything from women and women to demand everything and not give much in return.
Feminism's victim complex also creates an interesting conundrum where the sex in an actual positional advantage in the Western world pretends to be a victim and utilizes to gain economic advantages without actually trading sex, but instead uses a narrative that blacks should have access to, but can't because they are actually in a disadvantaged position.
[–]SeasonalVisions 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Women are not held to the same standard as men. To understand this, you have to acknowledge that we are sexually dimorphic animals with a substantial difference in hormones such as testosterone and estrogen. This has to do with intensity of emotions as well as decision making ability and much more.
Also, don't mention you are a women, unlike real life your gender means nothing on the internet. It's a bit ironic since you are obviously aware that the pussy pass exists yet you say you cannot understand gender psychology.
[–]Ob1000[S] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago [recovered] (0 children) | Copy Link
I understand the differences between male and female. Also I stated my gender for context and so that I could use my personal experiences in the discussion.
[–]SgtBrutalisk0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I think that entropy is a fundamental principle that drives us to improve and be vigilant. It is the Father Time from antiquity who devours his children. I think that women are not able to deal with entropy like men do. So, past a certain age women simply start falling behind men. What you describe as lack of maturity is simply women giving up and being unable to keep pace with men. AWALT
Anyone who claims everything has nothing. So I heartily disagree, but I'm giving you an upvote for Father Time because that was a really good line.
[–]SgtBrutalisk1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
image
[–]GuitarHero07-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Here's something to consider. When a woman is stressed out even over relatively trivial matters, it is considered perfectly normal for her to cry. It is only considered normal for a grown man to cry about something very major (e.g. death of a loved one).
Even feminists who claim that it's okay for men to cry are very derisive towards male tears. For example, look back at the mockery John Boehner faced for crying when he became Speaker of the House.
I don't think it's just something that is cultural because universally, men cry less than women. Men and women both will mock men who cry unless it's something very serious. On the other hand, women almost universally recieve sympathy.
This would imply that society (both men and women) expects men to be more emotionally mature than women. It's perfectly normal for your girlfriend, sister or mother to cry on your shoulder after a stressful day or an argument. On the other hand, you won't receive much sympathy for the same thing as a man.
At the very least, the evidence points towards men being better able to control their emotions.
[–]Ob1000[S] 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Actually I totally agree with you on most of that. Women are more emotional, largely due to biology, but men are still emotional creatures. Shit happens to everyone, we feel happy, we feel sad, it comes out. I think it's wrong that our culture shames male emotional displays. It is a blatant double standard.
The only part I disagree with is the idea that stoicism is equal to emotional maturity. Less is not always better. For example, women tend to be more empathetic because they're more emotional. Hopefully everyone can agree that's a good thing.
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