TL;DR: It's unfair that men suffer from sexual strategy, but that doesn't make it okay to flip it and make women suffer instead. No one deserves to be emotionally abused.
Edit 3, to all those filling my inbox with "Not All RedPill" messages: I feel that I should point out that I do not wish to demonize any group of people. I do not mean to say that all those who participate in /r/TheRedPill or similar forums are dead inside. What I am speaking out against is the use of sexual strategy and emotional manipulation to render your partner compliant. Don't participate in that? Great. I don't have a problem with you. I chose /r/TheRedPill to point out in particular because when I went there, that was what the majority of the posts were about. I know there are other posts in that subreddit, some of which are downright praiseworthy. Obviously I don't feel the need to address those.
Edit 5: Please don't go flame /r/TheRedPill or any other subreddit, guys, that's immature behavior and counterproductive to constructive conversation.
Now, let's get started.
Foreword: I realize that this isn't your typical EMSK entry, but I view it as essential advice to any man who wants to be happy in a heterosexual relationship. Nothing against men who want to be in a non-hetero relationship either; this is just addressing those who may be getting pulled in by the "Red Pill" philosophy.
For the uninitiated, "Red Pill" is a term co-opted by the types of people who frequent /r/TheRedPill (enter at your own risk, lots of lady-hate in there). It's a reference to The Matrix, in which Morpheus offers Neo a choice of one of two pills... a blue pill, which will make him forget and allow him to contentedly go back to a life of brainwashed mediocrity, or a red pill, which will wake him up to an unpleasant truth but grant him great power.
The idea of the "Red Pill" as is commonly used now, is that men are constantly losing a war of what /r/TheRedPill users refer to as "Sexual strategy." Essentially the premise is that women have what we want (sex), and they can make us bend over backwards to get it. They have us wrapped around their little fingers. Those who "take the Red Pill" awaken to their true male potential and learn to get what they want without having to submit and forfeit their masculinity.
The subreddit is rife with success stories from men who claim they've gotten what they want out of their relationship. One guy claims (and I'm paraphrasing), "She does my laundry and dishes, we have sex whenever I want, and she knows that I don't belong to her, and if she ever slips up or takes me for granted, she’s gone."
It's not that I doubt what he's saying. I believe it. The problem is, what he's describing is emotional abuse. What the Red Pill advocates is taking advantage of common weak points in the typical female psyche (most of which are present in your typical male psyche as well; everyone has weak points, and most of them are common to all humans, though some are more pronounced in one sex or another) to put pressure on women and bend them to your will. Users advise doing things like keeping her guessing, changing what you want and then berating her for not keeping up with your whims. Several advise that you never show affection for her unless she’s done something to please you. You break them like you'd break an animal.
And it's damned effective in some cases. It'll get you what you want if you do it right.
But you shouldn't want that, and here's why.
The Red Pill subreddit is also full of "Blue Pill Stories," in which guys get emotionally abused by their girlfriends. They lament being used for their money, their homes, their emotional support, what have you, and then being left when they weren't "Alpha" enough to keep their girlfriends around. It's a shame, it really is. Nobody deserves that kind of abuse.
"Nobody" includes women, though. What the Red Pill strategy does is flip that power dynamic on its head. When it works, now it's the man who is in power and the woman who is suffering. The man gets the sex without having to commit any real effort to the relationship, aside from making sure that his SO's emotions are brutally crushed on a regular basis. You haven't fixed anything, you've only made sure it's your SO who's suffering and not you. And the reason she stays is the same reason Blue Pill guys stay in their relationships: They don't want to be alone.
And as long as you keep that power dynamic active, you will never know what love is. Because love means that you feel what your lover feels. If she hurts, you hurt. If you hurt her, you feel all of her pain and all of the shame for knowing that you're the one that caused it. If you really love someone, you'll never want to hurt them. And make no mistake, that's what the Red Pill is: cold, calculated, systematic emotional torture meant to produce a desired response. Methods like keeping your prisoner guessing, changing what you want, keeping them off balance, those are all interrogation techniques meant to break your prisoner down on a mental and emotional level and produce a compliant charge.
Put quite simply, someone couldn't ever do such a thing to someone they truly loved.
There is one thing that Red Pill has right. Sexual strategy sucks. But the solution isn't getting better at it than your SO is. The solution is agreeing with one another that you're not going to play the game. If a game is going to always suck for one player, and both players care about one another, they're going to find a better game to play.
You want a healthy, stable relationship that is going to be rewarding? Here's the secret. Remember that your SO is just as complex, intelligent and vulnerable a human being as you are. She has needs just like you do. While she might place different values on her various needs, while she might express them differently, they're every bit as important to her as yours are to you. Life is a war. But if you want to win it, you and your SO need to be on the same side.
You don't need to break your girlfriend or wife. You need to talk to them. If they're doing something that hurts you, you need to tell them. And not "I wish you would quit that." Tell them "This hurts me when you do that." If they care about you, they'll take action to prevent causing you pain. To position and strategize to get what you want out of your marriage is to deny your most potent asset: An intelligent human being who cares about you and wants to see you happy above all else, and who wants to be happy alongside you.
And if you don't have that in your SO, you either need to get to that point or get out. There are many, many worse things than being single. One of them is being in an abusive or emotionally vacant relationship (on either side, abuser or victim). Don't view your time as being single as a sexless desert. View it as a time to grow and realize who you are. You need to be able to define yourself as an individual before you’re ready for a relationship.
Human beings are as diverse as life on this planet. For every type, there is a countertype. There is someone out there for just about everyone. However, none of your relationships will work out in a healthy manner until you realize that women are people too, not animals to be broken. You don't need to be an Alpha. You're not a damned dog. You're a human being. Human beings can communicate complex concepts, rebel against their base instincts to find better ways of doing things, and above all, reflect on their actions and empathize. You don't need to establish dominance, you just need to find somebody that's willing to actively pursue your happiness alongside their own; and you need to be willing to do the same for them. If you're not ready to do that, you're not ready to have a healthy relationship.
But there's good news... Something else human beings are good at is changing. You want someone to be willing to change for you, you have to make sure you're willing to change yourself a bit. Everything's a two-way street. Just make sure you're changing for the better. Being willing to change doesn't mean flopping over and doing whatever is asked of you. Here, change is a bad word for this. Be willing to improve yourself. Nobody's perfect. Spot those places that need work (I assure you, they're there, and if you can't spot them, I guarantee the people around you can), and start improving on those things.
In order to have a healthy relationship, you have to be a healthy human being first. A healthy human being doesn't use sexual strategy. You'll only ever have a healthy relationship if both parties refuse to play that game.
I mentioned earlier that Morpheus's "Red Pill" was originally symbolism for awakening, both to truth and to power, while the "Blue Pill" was a metaphor for staying asleep and maintaining the status quo.
In truth, the Red Pill as they represent it isn't a true awakening at all. It's a capitulation to a false dichotomy. A true awakening is realizing that the people around you are more than just faces, that they all have their own stories, their own thoughts, hopes and dreams, and that they are just as complex as you are. A true awakening is realizing that you don't have to win the fight (and thereby habitually hurt someone you ostensibly care about), or lose it. That you can take your ball and go home.
The Morpheus of sexual strategy is offering you two pills: Red and blue. Win sexual strategy, or lose it.
Punch him in the face and tell him you're not playing his bullshit game.
Edit: /u/TheCrash84 pointed out that I had not used the proper subreddit name. It is /r/TheRedPill, not /r/RedPill as I had originally shared.
Edit 4: Moved the tl;dr and edit 3 to the top for visibility (seriously, I get it, not all /r/TheRedPill stuff is bad). Obligatory edit for holy cow thanks for my first Reddit Gold ever! And my second, third, fourth and fifth!
Edit 6: I'm floored, I've never seen this much gold in one place before! Thanks so much, and I'm glad I made enough of an impression to prompt such a response! And thanks for all the love I've been getting in my inbox! It helps me ignore the hate.
Edit 7: Thanks so much for all of the support! I intended for this to just be a one-shot article, but I've been getting some inbox messages and comments asking me to make a subreddit dedicated to the kind of relationship I outline here, and how to build and maintain them. Considering that there are subreddits dedicated to much more frivolous things, I hereby present... /r/PunchingMorpheus.
[–]_fuyumi10 points11 points12 points (0 children) | Copy Link
An amazing post and a really wholesome sub!
[–][deleted] (28 children) | Copy Link
[deleted]
[–]Immarrrtal[S] 7 points8 points9 points (27 children) | Copy Link
Red pill and MGTOW are for people who struggle with women, and although some of the things they say have truth, they end up fucking you over anyway with a toxic mindset. There will be a power imbalance if you're red pill or blue pill, MGTOW or simping, whatever the fuck you wanna call it.
The best way is to find a balance and do what you should in a relationship; treat each other as equals and respond fairly to each other's wants and needs. Not put your partner on a pedestal or be manipulative and controlling. Red pill has been ruined by incels, narcissists and genuine sociopaths while MGTOW was supposed to be a support group for men to build each other up and focus on themselves but has instead turned into woman hating misogynist pricks and bitter cunts.
They'll resort to name calling you cuck or simp or whatever regurgitated boring insult they have because that's all they can do. Some of them are too far gone.
[–]actuallythink0 points1 point2 points (25 children) | Copy Link
You just called them “incels, narcissist, and sociopaths” and “woman hating misogynist cunts” and then whined that they will call you a cuck or simp.
😂
[–]Immarrrtal[S] 0 points1 point2 points (24 children) | Copy Link
Cause that's the only two insults they have you dumbfuck. 😂
[–]actuallythink0 points1 point2 points (23 children) | Copy Link
Your line: “they’ll resort to name calling [...] or whatever boring regurgitated insult they have because it’s all they can do” is highly ironic.
[–]Immarrrtal[S] 0 points1 point2 points (22 children) | Copy Link
So is your username. Keep drinking the kool aid.
[–]actuallythink0 points1 point2 points (21 children) | Copy Link
Was that another “regurgitated insult”?
You’re a meme.
And probably a beta, cuck, simp meme at that 😂
[–]Immarrrtal[S] 0 points1 point2 points (20 children) | Copy Link
And you ain't shit, keep picking fights on Reddit with your lame ass cause it's all you can do to cope.
[–]actuallythink0 points1 point2 points (19 children) | Copy Link
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/kqilq3/clown_town_fuck_your_floppy_shoes/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Dance your dance; we are all laughing.
Edit: this sub is apparently for people who found TRP, stuck around long enough to learn TRP, and then rejected TRP.
TRP is for men who, for whatever reason, were never taught the value and virtue of masculinity but were taught that masculinity is subject to the values and virtues of femininity.
TRP is a coping mechanism for living in a shitty world as well as an opportunity to transform from living a life lead by others into living a life lead by oneself.
And for some reason, you found it, learned it enough to make an objective decision about it, and left it just to post hate about it on a sub that exists solely for those who failed the coping/transformation.
You are a massive projector. Like drive-in theatre massive.
[–]Immarrrtal[S] 0 points1 point2 points (18 children) | Copy Link
Talking shit on a post that's over a month old is the biggest cry for attention I've witnessed lately. Are you lonely or something? At least grow a pair and talk to me in DM's instead of embarrassing yourself like the manchild you are.
Edit: TRP is a warped view of masculinity coupled with a toxic mindset. It's not even about being a man, it's mostly about how to manipulate women and be bitter about them. All they talk about is women. It's gotten bad enough where idiots like you actively seek out posts like this and start talking shit because they get triggered about it. You're the only one whining about anything here.
[–]actuallythink1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
Dance, clown, dance.
Wtf do you wanna go to DMs for? That’s weird.
[–]Immarrrtal1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
Scared of confrontation? Its a lot easier to talk big and tough on and old thread you think nobody would respond to. Either way, go look for attention elsewhere ya bum.
[–]actuallythink1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
So you wanna bring it to your DMs because this is an old thread and your buddies won’t see it? Your logic doesn’t follow.
Look, I understand that “The Manipulated Man” startled you. I startled me the first time as well, but I powered through and learned a hell of a it about our world.
You’re like a student who dropped out of college halfway through his first semester because he didn’t understand the course material so he started hating on college students at his local failures bar.
[–]Immarrrtal1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
Well let's see, you target an old thread out of getting triggered and were probably not expecting a response. It's easier to bring it to DM's to continue this conversation rather than build up this spectacle on the off chance other people actually see the new responses on this thread, but whatever floats your boat.
You're like a typical redpiller that drank the kool aid and never let go of his resentment so now you go hating on random people on reddit that think differently than you because they trigger your hurt feelings and it's your only source of getting attention.
"Clown." 😛
[–]actuallythink1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
Are you talking in the mirror right now?
I would kindly refer you back to this very post and the comment to which I initially replied.
[–]Immarrrtal1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
So you're still triggered over my name calling? Keep crying about it, I couldn't care less.
[–]actuallythink1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
All I have been doing is pointing out that YOU are triggered. I don’t give a shit what you call me which is precisely why I have no need to go DM and hide from others’ opinions of our conversation—cuz I’m my own man, thanks to TRP.
I know you’re gonna project AGAIN and pretend I’m acting triggered, but you’re creating evidence and my evidence of your projection is this post in and of itself.
Pizza time with the fam, peace.
[–]Immarrrtal1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
I don't give a fuck either. I'm just telling it like it is. You misinterpreted my labeling as "whining" for some reason even though it's a pretty accurate descriptor of the worst kinds of people on TRP. Obviously, not all of 'em are like that. That's like saying all people of religion are extremists or something. It's not all absolutes. And then you think that I'm "whining" about being called names when I was clearly stating how boring and common those insults are. How you managed to think I was actually mad about that is mind boggling.
So, this whole thing basically started because you thought I was triggered over a couple of labels? Also, good for you, glad it helped you out. I retained plenty of useful information from TRP but I'd rather not associate with it because of how toxic its community is. You're exaggerating my leaving of that community like I failed this big life test or something.
[–]actuallythink1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
That’s the thing though: you left the community because you were placing arbitrary labels on a group and yourself, by proxy.
TRP is intentionally abrasive to help break the same social conditioning that leads you to believe that association with a group that has members who don’t toe the arbitrary line makes them a “bad” person and you by extension.
TRP is all about exposing the fact that morality and ethics are a reflection of a man’s creation and if you self-limit yourself using another man’s creation you are giving your individual power over your life and circumstances to another man. That’s why they call you a cuck—because you are allowing another man to take from you that which is sacred.
Are there “bad” people on TRP? Sure, by my standards. But as far as I’m concerned, there are “bad” people on /r/exredpill, /r/stoicism, and even the most wholesome subreddits you could find.
But my judgement doesn’t matter, because the imagined reality I use to create my morals, ethics, etc. doesn’t exist. The only thing that exists is the red pill: everything you think is real is nothing but the creation born from the imagination of another man—and that’s the “reality” that women live in because they have been given the privilege of being allowed to live sans reality with little to no consequence and so they live the life of women. So, we have the choice: realize the truth and live life as a creator or abandon reality and live under the power of other men, like women.
The pizza was great, thanks for asking. 🙃
[–]Immarrrtal1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
I left the community because of the people there. Too many bitter and resentful men, and too few men of true wisdom and virtue. Just cause you leave the dojo doesn't mean you completely abandon and forget its teachings. I'm not denying what female nature is and what power they potentially hold over men. It's evident how easy it is for them to get profit and attention from weak men, i.e. simps, just look at onlyfans and tiktok. It'll only get worse from there.
I've never been called a cuck, I was just pointing out how it was their go-to insult. They could at least get a little creative with it and come up with a few new insulting nicknames. Beta, cuck, simp, etc. is getting old, but that's just my opinion.
You're saying that by not following TRP, you're limiting yourself to a set of morals and ethics. But wouldn't following TRP mean you're just following a different set of morals and ethics? I understand that TRP is a huge part of your identity, I'm not taking away from that. But to say that anyone not following TRP is giving their power and their life to other men is a bit dramatic. It isn't that simple to have it as an absolute. Everyone that follows TRP doesn't magically become this mentally unbreakable and dominant alpha Chad, and everyone that doesn't follow TRP isn't automatically a weak beta bitch simp.
Personally I never gave a shit about following the status quo, chasing popularity or trying to be liked by others. I just did whatever the hell I wanted, spoke my mind and called people out on their bullshit, and I got a lot of respect for it. I respect that about you too, having the backbone to call me out on said arbitrary labels.
I have not forgotten the important things I need to know that I've learned from TRP. I agree with most of it, for sure, just not all of it.
Okay, I'll bite. What were the toppings on the pizza? Where'd you order it from?
[–]actuallythink2 points [recovered] | Copy Link
It means exactly that when you then go to another dojo to bitch about how mean the other students treated you. Very few members of TRP even understand TRP—it’s a process. And that answers your second point as well. The world itself is a process of feminizing men. TRP is one of the relatively very few processes that moves men in the other direction. You’ve divided everyone into two categories here: those following and those not following TRP. I say that neither of those categories exist. There are men who are progressing towards self-actualization and those who are sniffing around for a woman to complete them. TRP is a place for men to participate in the self-actualization process. Raging to your beta-friends about how immoral and unethical TRP is is framing the sub in a set of feminine values and virtues (I.e. morality, kindness, equality, etc) and it is absolutely antithetical to the self-actualization efforts of all men, including yourself. It’s close-mindedness; feminine.
TRP is no one’s identity. Ironically, TRP is the rejection of defined identity... a core principle you must have missed; maybe you called out that day due to sore arms from the gym the day prior.
But you’re right: everyone on TRP isn’t magically a chad and everyone who rejects it isn’t magically a beta; but both are progressing towards one of those extremes or the other.
THAT is TRP. TRP is a place where conversations like this can exist without censorship. Are there assholes? Yes. Are there beta simps that only take TRP far enough to get a girlfriend and then manipulate the shit out of her because he thinks THAT is what makes you a man? Yes. But shitting on the subreddit by posting crybaby “TRP WILL KILL YOU!!!!!” is shitting on the ability to throw-off the status quo, call out the fucking world for its bullshit and arbitrary labels, and be your own man.
Papa Johns. Italian Trio and a pepperoni/sausage for the kids.
[–]Immarrrtal1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
I saw that post on r/everymanshouldknow and was wondering what the peeps on r/exredpill thought about it. I don't know anybody here. I was looking to see if there was any insightful conversation to be had here. Have you read the post in full yet? Admittedly, I did go overboard on my labeling. Of course not all followers of TRP/MGTOW are sociopaths, narcissists or mysognist cunts.
It's not that I think TRP is immoral or unethical. It gets a lot of things right and spot on, it's just that some of the members interpret what it teaches in the worst ways, or twists it to fit their own selfish narrative. That's why so many red pillers and MGTOWs get hate. I don't have a problem with MGTOW or TRP, just the worst of the members that it attracts, that give all men a bad name. Similar to my problem with religious extremists as well as arrogant and rude atheists, as an agnostic. I have no problems with religion or atheism/secularism.
I think to some degree all men are looking for self-actualization, for purpose, some are just slower on that journey than others. The sooner men realize women are an accessory to life and not the focus, they'll be more at peace. Staying true to yourself at your core is the best thing any man can do. Remaining undeterred and unfazed in spite of all the clown shit going on in the world. They say you have two lives; the first starts when you are born and the second begins when you realize you only have one to live and make the most out of.
At it's core, the principles of TRP and MGTOW are to teach men to be men, to be a community to build each other up and seek virtue, wisdom, purpose. But it gets such a bad rep since the worst of its members tend to be the most boisterous and outspoken individuals. Perhaps all the people here in r/exredpill have truly rejected it for some reason, or only left because they were turned off by the toxicity. Who knows. It's been a long time since I've been active in any of those communities but perhaps things have changed for the better and might be worth rejoining.
And speaking of censorship, Reddit is starting to be effected. Just look at r/WatchRedditDie to find loads of examples. I can't believe the amount of sensitive snowflakes offended by every little thing feeling the need to cancel it. Excessive use of the internet, the popularity of pornography and simp culture via tiktok, onlyfans, etc. have made men today weaker than ever.
But hey. Maybe people like you and me will be the ones to change things for the better. Wake some of these men up, cause they sure as fuck need it. I'm very open minded with things and would love to see new perspectives and viewpoints. If TRP/MGTOW could be reframed and portrayed more accurately, with less stigma attached to it, it would be a lot more popular and get a lot less hate. Not that it matters what other people think of you or what you follow or believe in, but because of the potential it has to help a lot of young men out.
You have kids? I'm only 20 and I've got the best years ahead of me. I noticed you mentioned "The Manipulated Man" in one of your recent replies, and raise you "The Rational Male". There's a lot of good books out there for sure, and I'll have to add that one on the list and check it out later.
Haven't had Papa John's in FOREVER. Hopefully it tastes just as good as I remember.
[–]actuallythink1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
Bro, this whole sub was created to whine about another sub. If the rest of your comment doesn’t make the projection clear, no wonder you failed the biggest test of self-actualization you’ll ever be lucky enough to be given.
[–]Immarrrtal1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
Whatever works for you pal. The TRP community are full of weirdos in my opinion. I prefer r/stoicism and r/semenretention.
[–]actuallythink1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
Stoics wouldn’t run to a sub to express how much their feelings were hurt on TRP.
[–]Immarrrtal1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
I was acknowledging redpiller behavior. The only one with hurt feelings is you seeing how reactive you are about it, especially on an old ass thread.
[–]actuallythink1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
You even argue like a woman. I bet that really turns them on...
[–]Immarrrtal1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
Not sure if trolling or just really stupid.
[–]KurkTheMagnificent5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Not bad
[–]entrep44 points5 points6 points (4 children) | Copy Link
Finally, someone with a well thought out and decent argument. So fed up of all the posts on this sub like "red pill bad because I don't like it". Posts with no arguments at all. This one is actually a well reasoned argument.
[–]Half-Ice-Half-Fire4 points5 points6 points (2 children) | Copy Link
And yet y’all aren’t gonna listen anyway lol
[–]Immarrrtal[S] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
How so?
[–]entrep41 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Uh no actually I read the post and agreed with some points. Nice way to generalise...
[–]Immarrrtal[S] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, balance is essential in relationships. Don't put your partner on a pedestal or be controlling/manipulative, just treat them as an equal and make sure the needs and wants of both parties are met. Simple as that. People just love to overcomplicate things rather than communicate.
[–][deleted] (1 child) | Copy Link
[deleted]
[–]Half-Ice-Half-Fire0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Who exredpillers?
[–]Carloverguy201 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Very true, the problem with the Redpill is that you have some angry nerd who had his heartbroken and then they join the movement, becoming angrier and angrier at society and scorning at every woman they see, and then they end up worse, going to the blackpill and then they use Incel terminology such as Cope, stacy, mog, maxx, and turn into psychopaths.
[–]Sad-Percentage64941 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah it's hard sometimes even as a non-RP to not let your anger and fear of a girl mistreating you and how society keeps a man down, to seep into new girls you meet. Guess it's good I'm in my 30's and I no longer feel like I'm being kept down, otherwise I'd boil over into a possible Ted Bundy lol...just being honest
[–]Sad-Percentage64940 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
This is a really good post. I absolutely resonate with it when I hear Red Pillers advocate just mistreating girls- I don't want to say the target girls are "low self-esteem", because they may just want to get plowed by a guy lol. And yeah that requires domination.
My problem is i'm horny as hell and i just want to hook up sometimes. And I want to dominate physically and emotionally. And other times i just want someone to understand me. And be on my level. Then I'm stressed out. I'm all over the place but I'm also terrified a woman will just spend "platonic time" with me, and waste my time. If we're friends mutually, it's different.
My strategy though, isn't manipulation. I didn't like it when it was done to me by a lot of shitty women.
[–]egosforeveryone1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Work on yourself.
Change your mindset: Meditate, Think empowering thoughts.
Change your body: Lift weights, run, do yoga, get outside.
Change your spirit: Connect to your inner world and Love yourself.