*TL;DR, In my view, traditional gender roles controlled women’s worst instincts, while allowing men and women to play to their strengths, leading to a strong family unit, which can be a great source of meaning for men and women, and is the fundamental foundation of civilization, without which society continue to fall, and we will go extinct. I encourage you to read the whole post because I pretty thoroughly addresss the advantages of traditionalism, but I don’t want the length to prevent people from discussing so feel free to discuss without reading if you don’t have the time/desire. Are the problems men face caused primarily by feminism, and the destruction of tradition, or would you still GYOW even in a traditional society? *

My impression is that the old gender roles did a pretty good job of keeping the worst parts of female nature under control. Hypergamy was less of an issue because most women didn’t work for high status, so since most men were above them it was less of a problem. It’s pretty clear that once women make more than men on average, they just stop getting married due to this issue (this can be seen in many inner city black communities, as well as some rural white ones).

The social norms around monogamy kept them from sleeping away their prime years, only committing to a man once they’ve hit the wall, and “beta provider” has to do the providing he once did, without the benefits of enjoying her youth.

Norms around monogamy also made divorce exceedingly rare, mostly only occurring in extreme cases. Women wouldn’t leave just because they feel unhappy (which in all likelihood isn’t the man’s fault), or because they feel they could do better. They understood and respected their role as a mother and wife, and knew disrupting this family unit would be a very bad thing, and that running off with the kids would do the children a huge disservice (not to mention the father). Because they wouldn’t leave at the first sign of trouble, they were motivated to actually fix their marital woes. Jordan Peterson does a great job of explaining this—the point of marriage is to shackle yourself to another person, because you’re both deeply flawed, so if there’s always the option to leave, you won’t be truly honest with each other, and won’t be able to seriously address your problems, because some are so daunting that if you can leave, you will. I can find the link to this video if anyone is interested.

This low divorce rate also made issues of the corrupted family courts less of an issue, because it was so rare to end up in that situation in the first place unless someone did something truly fucked up (like cheating or abuse). I would guess that those courts may have been less biased as well before feminism, although I could be wrong about that.

The role of the father was also highly respected and valued, which makes it fulfilling for men, while nowadays you’ll be hard pressed to get anyone left of center to even admit that, all things being equal, it’s clearly better to have the father in the family, despite the mountains of social science showing this to be indisputably the case.

People were also pretty aware that women tend to be less logical and more emotionally driven, and as a result they understood that in major decisions it was best to allow the man to take the lead.

This allowed women to focus on what they’re actually good at, and evolved to do well: the nurturing of children, particularly small ones, as well as providing a sanctuary and emotional support for their husbands. IMO this is worth the trouble of working all day, particularly since I’ll be doing that anyway. If a family is strong, it seems easily worth the financial costs, because in my opinion, a sense of meaning/fulfillment is more important than having extra money to spend on entertainment. That has its role, but I don’t think it will sustain me through the trials of life nearly as much.

In a traditional society, having a family would also help you in old age, because families tended to live near each other, so they could support each other and stay connected. Being a grandparent living near your family seems like the best way to spend your elderly years which frankly could be quite depressing otherwise. But nowadays people move across the country from their grandparents, and put them in old folks homes, to only see them a few days a year. It’s no wonder their suicide rates are so high, particularly among men.

I’m sorry this is so long, but I wanted to cover all the major points so that you can better grasp my view. Do you think that in a traditional society marriage and family would be worth it?

I personally wish I could live in those days, but given the state of modern women Ill probably had to GMOW unfortunately, at least for now. I’m in college right now so almost all women I know are about the exact opposite of what I described, unfortunately.

Many traditionalists say that you just need to find a traditionalist wife. I hope this is a possibility, but I’m not so sure it is. Women are very much influenced by their social environment, far more than men, so even if a woman has traditional values, those may still be constantly undermined by the media, society, and her friends. It would take an extremely resistant woman to not be influenced by this, which is quite rare among their gender. Maybe I’ll get lucky, but sadly I’m not sure I will.

A related concern of mine is that the destruction of the family will lead to the existinction of the creators of developed countries, meaning whites, but also asians in some cases (see Japan). It seems to me that if we cannot end feminism and return to tradition, civilization itself is likely to collapse, by its own doing. Our nations will be swamped by the very high birth rates of the third world, who do not having these issues with declining birth rates, perhaps because they aren’t “educated” enough for feminism to really take hold over their traditional cultures. They can’t think their way out of their own survival the way supposedly educated whites and asians do. Perhaps in that case they deserve to overtake us, because we let out women ruin society.