Hi,

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my MGTOW moment was 2004, and i went through rough times back then. You have the Internet (and smartphones!), Youtube and Forums, back then it was impossible to communicate about this issues.

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But i learned over the years that the main problem i had, was a feminised and "Disney-traditional" worldview. Our culture was never like Disney (and others) portrayed it. I know you are asking "why have you ever thought this" but it was subconsciously.

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What i mean is, you can see the difference in old European poems and pre-Grimm fairy stories. (i am not an native English speaker, so not all words are written correctly i hate it if words are not written how you speak them...) One example: The Brothers Grimm changed the traditional stories - in some of them they changed the female antagonist to "Stepmother" but in the original story they where the mothers who forced the Father to send Hansel and Gretel into the Woods.... That's where it started, just to please woman who would buy Grimms Fairy story books in the 1800. Cruelty by woman was known and accepted as part of the reality, they where not "princesses".

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MGTOW is very strong in the US (and i am not from the US), but you have a "Disney view" on our western European culture- and then you want to throw away the plastic-image of western culture you think we had. I saw this in one comment about "trads" - believing that males did not had some power and rights over their woman in the mid-ages.

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That's just plain wrong. This people are just so far away, feminised and pussified that you can't even imagine that a father can (still!) push through the will of a woman and force her by authority (yes, some kind of PUA and "being alpha") to submit to some rules and how to behave. On the other side some don't understand that our traditional culture (which is just "culture", but i am writing "traditional" for you) has a huge MGTOW logic integrated into this. A man starts a family where he wants, with whom he wants and he is the head of family. He bears the responsibility yes, but he also gains something from this - and yes, it also having a family and children. Muslim "patriarchy" is a joke compared to this, but they show very efficient that it is possible.

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When i started to be a MGTOW it adjusted the focus on how the interaction between males and females should be. There is no symbiosis - this is for parents/kids until they are 5. (Disney!) Sex does not equals love, it just something that exists and can be enjoyed - but in traditional European culture, having sex was not separated from making kids and taking responsibility for the actions (so no abortions, no divorces, no sex before you have the woman you want to make kids with, no adultery!). I needed some years to remove the BS from our "culture" we have now - and see through it.

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Modern US-movies and comics about European culture and history are like cartoons. Totally wrong and sometimes idiotic (it starts with the stupid "X-mas" and "Santa Claus"). I know i repeat myself - but it is really more like a Disney movie, then reality. (In the real Rapunzel story, the guy fells down, looses his eyes in the thorns, and was alone for many years. Rapunzel came out of the tower, pregnant, gave birth to the kids (alone) and at the end they find each other and she rescues his eyes magically.)

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I really see that the US, as most powerful western nation - needs a massive influx and cultural reminder from Europe (so your TV stations stop to brainwash Europeans into zombies....), to remove this "Disney worldview" completely and replace it by the real thing.

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Lot's of MGTOWs just want to be alone, do their MGTOW thing, learn stuff (oh not doing crack and watching tv all day? - interesting....?) and build something, maybe a business. I understand this, and i went down the same path. Still working and building, while i have children and a wife now.

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Still MGTOW and divorce is not an option. ;) And she knows it, we had arguments (especially when children are completely consuming your energy for months and years), and "divorce" or "paying alimony" is something i laugh about. I can just go away, i can find somewhere another woman and make a new family. Or do something completely different.

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MGTOW is not just going away, but also being internal away knowing that we are all mortal and nothing is forever except God. This stance alone tamed a lot of the powerful barbaric energy woman have. And the knowledge about this is also needed to be forced down on the kids. I force gently and sometimes angry and powerful my view, my rules and my proceedings to my family because i am the head of the house - knowing that the woman and the kids are like lions, dragons, brawling emotional pots who try to overcome me and my stance. And i am pushing them to go to church every Sunday (in Latin!), so they can taste real culture, eternity and spirituality and don't fall into the profane stupid "hoe culture" we have everywhere.

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That's the normal western view on family. That's the 'pater familias', rooting in the roman and Greek culture, added by anglo-saxon and viking temperament combined with the greed for surviving. It is harsh, it is romantic (because it is harsh) and no Disney anywhere. Thorns are good, they test you.

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From my point of view, you are half the way down - i am very impressed and i learn every time i read here if i want to relax a bit.

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/a