If you want women to go back to pre-1960's attitudes you're an MRA not a MGTOW

nightday00 · 2017-08-11T16:43:42+00:00

I don't think MRA wants to put women in pre 1960 situation, MRA just want real equity between men and women (the same thing Feminist pretend to want).

The people who want women going back to 1960 situation are TradCon.

Of course, some MRA can also be TradCon, some MGTOW can also be disappointed TradCon.

The_Law_of_the_Land · 2017-08-11T15:03:17+00:00

This post is absolutely on-point. As our membership grows, so too does an influx of neo-nazi, "reconquer the West," "establish a 4th reich" memer memberships. "Sticking to your own kind" and "avoiding race-mixing" won't save you. What will save you is avoiding womyn, yes, even the cute blond ones with the nazi regalia.

This is not 4 Chan 2.0. You want that? Go to that website. Here, we're MGTOWs, and while we aren't all herbivores, we sure as fuck do not hold delusions of unicorns, or Great White Civilizations.

Mefic_vest · 2017-08-11T14:46:55+00:00

MGTOW is men realizing that we will never go back to the plantation, even if JUNE FUCKING CLEVER were handing out blowjobs while cooking breakfast naked.

I would go back for that, BJ's, clean house, good cooking, loyal loving wife. You're right I'm probably more of an MRA guy at heart.

BUT, I understand it's not happening even if it would be cool if it did, so the realist in me is MGTOW, it's the only option.

The_Law_of_the_Land · 2017-08-11T15:19:56+00:00

[deleted]

The_Law_of_the_Land · 2017-08-11T15:04:26+00:00

Excellent post. I opened the thread expecting much worse.

People excluding themselves because they fantasize about "the way things were", even though they were never actually like that ever, is a waste. As long as you are aware that it is pure fantasy and you do not act on it, a little deluded nostalgia is of no harm to you. We all have our foibles and weaknesses.

On the other hand, if you legitimately believe that it is possible to reason with contemporary feminism, then I would suggest your efforts are better spent elsewhere, though I personally am a big tent person and do not really care if people around me hold and express different viewpoints.

The only way out of this cultural madness is forward and through. The greatest crime of feminism is disseminating a painfully childish and self-serving version of history that denies the millennia-long trend of liberalization and technological advancement that every single human being on Earth is a part of. We are all victims of the unfeeling hand of cultural evolution, and only through conscious, rational and informed political effort do we gradually make the world a slightly better place for everyone each day.

Unfortunately we need the hard lesson of what regression really looks like, when people are hungry, scared and angry, and then we will remember why rational political discourse and the rule of law is so important, even if it will never be perfectly fair all the time.

I know some MGTOW bros have given up completely, and I absolutely respect that. I, however, have not, even though the coming reckoning that I foresee is probably worse than what they imagine. I have faith in our collective ability to learn from our mistakes, even if we need to endure extremely painful lessons to do so, and I mean the '10s of millions of dead' kind of lessons.

All that said, what comes after will definitely not be a reversion to some whitebread suburban mayonnaise commercial from the 1960s.

Ruby-xy · 2017-08-11T16:11:29+00:00

I think its good that women have freedom. The problem with feminism is that most of them are pro gynocentrism. It has not given women any responsibility or fixed gynocentrism. (Traditionalism = gynocentrism) The old system keeping women in check is removed, but the systems keeping men in check are still there. We have ended up in a society that is still gynocentrism at its core, but the reward for being a "real man" has been removed. Its now hard work and high risk, with low rewards. Its not worth the price. Going you're own way is the superior option.

2017-08-11T15:04:41+00:00

Back in the "good ole days" tobacco addiction was at an all time high among the working mules, I mean, Real Men™. A coping mechanism slowly eating away at men's health just so they could pretend to live a fulfilling traditional life, and then the sexual revolution happened but the slave was working.

sdgfgsdfgsdfdfgdgf · 2017-08-11T16:55:16+00:00

What a terrible fucking post.

This isn't your personal club where you define what is and isn't something that was around before you found it.

Go the fuck away. Where are all of these disgusting trashy feminists coming from? I feel like I need to take a shower after reading your shit. And it is shit. It's your ego. Nothing more.

MGTOW is NOT A MOVEMENT, IT IS NOT WHAT YOU WANT IT TO BE. IT IS NOT YOUR PERSONAL CLUB. Go the fuck back to xx and masturbate in your period blood. Stop trying to lead a bunch of people. You're not a leader. Stop being a fucking loser and go away.

Why do people feel the need to define what others are? We dont live in your neat little world dumb ass

Because they're insecure and controlling, basically women with penises. Completely feminized. All they do is make boxes all day long and draw lines in the sand to feel like they understand the world. They're fucking idiots.

HowlSkank · 2017-08-11T18:05:46+00:00

I understand the deeper point you're making about how feminism has "exposed" female nature, but in a larger sense I have to respectfully disagree 100% with at least the title of your post. Wanting society to return to normal that were the moral standards for thousands of years, and that allowed civilization itself to grow and flourish, does not make somebody an MRA. That's what a traditionalist male wants. And to say that female nature was not understood pre-1960 is totally misguided. I could point you to dozens if not hundreds of literary, scientific, or cultural references pointing their nature out, going back probably 3000 years. It's only been since 1960 that feminism has tried to bury that knowledge. We here have simply rediscovered it, if you will.

An MRA on the other hand wants equity for men and women in the eyes of the law (among other institutions), as they've correctly identified tremendous disparities that favor females within those systems. Sure, traditionalist men generally want this too, but for them it's only a very small part of the pantomime.

To say a traditionalist-style MGTOW man is really an MRA is like saying that anyone who dislikes Tom Brady is a Pittsburgh Steelers fan (to use a sports analogy). There is a name for that logical fallacy, but I don't know what it is right now & my lunch just got served so byeeeeee

wingplay · 2017-08-11T16:41:05+00:00

Just leaving this for the MRA's. In the 60's when women were still dependent on men, you did not get a chance to see their true colours except in exceptions, what MGTOWs have come to realise is that AWALT. Only issue is that women back then could not afford to openly AWALT.

Mefic_vest · 2017-08-11T17:02:37+00:00

I hate feminism for it's intrinsic rooting in hate but I applaud what it has done to women for men. It has pulled back the curtain on female nature and handed out red pills for every man willing to accept the truth.

On an unconscious level, I have come to the same conclusion.

And while I will still support MRA, for the simple fact that rights need to be fought for (true equality, ftw), I will not be doing it to “roll back the clock” or any such nonsense. Women have made their bed, let them learn how to sleep in it.

bonusfruit · 2017-08-11T17:31:17+00:00

MRAs protest anti male laws. Trad cons want women back in the 60s. There is a bit of overlap, but they are not the same

The_Law_of_the_Land · 2017-08-11T17:14:39+00:00

[removed]

2017-08-11T17:24:39+00:00

*tradcon

mordanus · 2017-08-11T19:03:57+00:00

I like to think of it in terms of a giant forest fire. Mra's are in the middle of a forest fire and arguing with the fire around them and planning to replant the forest. PUAs are trying to risk the fire to get pussy and consider the risk and good trade off. Mgtow is trying to run out of the forest far enough to turn around and watch it all burn down and laugh.

hottake_toothache · 2017-08-11T19:09:35+00:00

We MRAs call those people "trad cons." MRAs may have an alliance of convenience with them (against the greater enemy of feminism), but MRAs do not want to turn back the clock. (Pre-1960s? You mean when hundreds of thousands of men were being drafted and sent to war to be slaughtered, and nobody cared because men are disposable? No thank you.)

2017-08-11T19:37:07+00:00

Absolutely agree. Even in the best case scenario of a clean/cook/take care of the kids/blowjob + sandwich wife, at the end of the day you are still the workhorse that gets an apple maybe two. A rewarded utility with ever decreasing freedom. I have been seeing a lot of people commenting as of late, of how the so called modern woman was poisoned by feminism. They don't seem to get that feminism IS politicised and weaponized female nature.

Women were ALWAYS like this. Don't forget evo-psych ever.

Changing laws is necessary? Sure. But it seems to me that the message of MGTOW and the ideology in it point to a much more profound truth, women have one literally ONE true thing they are able to bring which is reproduction. Every single other thing a man can do better and by himself without the nagging and the drama bullshit.

If you want and are A-OK with being a rewarded workhorse that is fine, just keep it out of this forum.

2017-08-11T19:42:47+00:00

MGTOW will remain on the fringes, because you can't expect every man to overcome the strong forces of human sexual urges and see the reality. The penny will drop when it will.

It takes quite a bit of introspection to realise the frivolous nature of women. Took me 3/4th of my life!

SamCasey98 · 2017-08-11T14:50:27+00:00

Again I'm not looking to disenfranchise anyone;

Then stop imposing your ideas on others.

kp76 · 2017-08-11T15:30:10+00:00

Why do people feel the need to define what others are? We dont live in your neat little world dumb ass

Talkytalktalk · 2017-08-11T17:19:12+00:00

No. You're a tradcon

Red_Shambhala · 2017-08-11T18:12:45+00:00

Good post and glad to see that most comments are anti-tradcuck, too! With MGTOW growing it's just necessary to point that out every once in a while.

Not that I dislike people who wish that they could live a conservative lifestyle per se, I just don't want MGTOW to be taken over by people who essentially promote a religious fertility cult in which women of one's own race are worshiped as motherhood goddesses, and a "fertility war" against other races is promoted.

I mean, I feel for men who wish that it were still possible to live an old fashioned live, and I totally welcome them as long as they accept that other men might want to go other ways. If men are going their own way, they will inevitably go into different directions here and there. There's enough room for men who want / would want to go into a more "conservative" direction and men who want to go into a more "liberal" direction. Just don't turn YOUR way and wishes into the way all men of your race/nation/religion should go.

As far as I see it, MGTOW is not a venue to somehow reduce the supply/demand ratio in regards to women, believing it will make women realize their folly in not remaining loyal to males and then they can return and start mindlessly entering relationships and families again. Such men think the 1950’s will return if women just have an epiphany about men’s worth and we can unquestioningly accept Christianity once more. These guys are just one blowjob away from the plantation.

Itisforsexy · 2017-08-11T19:06:15+00:00

I disagree. If being in a fair marriage with a happy family (even if the woman's happiness is at least partially an illusion) makes you happy too, then so be it. You're going your own way too.

But only if you're doing it because you want to.

I've never wanted kids / marriage, even before realizing how poor the deal is for men. But that doesn't make me more MGTOW than anyone else. Let's not turn this group into one that requires purity tests.

TryDoingSomethingNew · 2017-08-11T19:49:27+00:00

If you want women to go back to pre-1960's attitudes you're an MRA not a MGTOW

I don't agree with this. Wanting things to be back like they were in more socially stable times is not exclusive to the MRA community. It is up to each individual, and is not necessarily ONLY an MRA idea.

...but I applaud what it has done to women for men.

There may be some (unintentional, they'll never acknowledge them) consequences of feminism that benefit men, but all in all it's a net negative, and the toxicity of it harms men, women, children, and much more.

I don't expect things can ever go back, sadly, but in my day dreams a man can have a normal life & relatively happy life like back in more sane times. Just not going to happen anymore.

I do agree about where you focus your time and energy; you only have a limited amount of both, so it's vital to put them where it will actually benefit you and you have a realistic chance of success/improving your situation. It is not realistic for anyone to think we can turn back things - western society is being dissolved at its very foundation. From here it's going to get even worse; possibly MUCH worse (think 1984 the novel).

Hikage-best-knaifu · 2017-08-11T20:05:31+00:00

What a fucking retarded post. I want one exclusive pussy for life, since that isnt possible I'm here.

grewapair · 2017-08-11T20:13:08+00:00

June Cleaver was Ward's slave. Ward was a wage slave, more a slave to the system than to her. He had to provide for her, or he would be ostracized, she had to work for him. If she failed to keep her end of the bargain, she was screwed.

I don't feel that women feel the man needs to be any less of a provider. The difference is that women don't have to give what they used to in order to have a provider provide for them. They can not participate at all in your happiness, and the government will step in to maintain your role as provider but not maintain her role as contributor to your happiness.

That's all well and good, women shouldn't be slaves, but the provider aspect has to end and it hasn't. Not by women and not by the government, so the only smart thing to do is to reject the deal as one sided.

fasterfind · 2017-08-11T20:25:28+00:00

A lot of people here are still deciding, it's a big decision that people struggle with, and take time with. You are telling them they don't have the right to be less absolute than YOU tell them to be.

You're also telling them that your definition of MGTOW, and the community is the ONLY definition they are allowed to accept.

Finally, you're telling them to be absolutely X, or they're not welcome here.

Let's start over.

The things excluded from MGTOW are defined on the sidebar. You don't get to redefine them.

MGTOW is MGTOW. The mods already defined it. You don't get to radically redefine it and you don't get to radicalize the community.

No individual gets to define MGTOW because MGTOW isn't about an individual leader. It's a philosophy. Nobody gave you authority to speak for the entire group or lead it, right? That includes defining who is and isn't welcome here. That's already defined in the sidebar.

MGTOW isn't a decision that people make instantly. Common sense dictates we give people space and time to think about it. If we're going to define /r/mgtow, then that might be a good point. This is a place where we think about MGTOW, discuss it, support each other.

Telling people to get lost unless they already made up their mind? Not good for the crusade.

2017-08-11T20:57:22+00:00

Exactly. Most MGTOW are still BP though, and cling to the fantasy of old.

A true MGTOW realises his freedom and embraces. MGTOW life is actually really good, just make sure you get some money socked away for yourself as well.

2017-08-11T21:12:52+00:00

Once you swallow the pill there really is no going back. Even if you want to.

stoicthrowaway51 · 2017-08-11T21:51:52+00:00

I'll quote what I wrote in another thread, because I think it fits this thread:

I believe men and women should be equal in rights and obligations, which is why I'm neither a feminist nor do I long for the return of this idyllic past that never existed in which men and women peacefully complied to their socially assigned gender roles. Feminism has been great to women. I really don't buy the idea that most women would find it fulfilling to have a stay at home/take care of children lifestyle. This is why there are so many XIXth century novels in which women cuck their husbands and hate life so much. I'm not saying that having a 9-to-5 job is great, but I believe most women would choose being independent. In any case, the current scenario is the best of both worlds for women: if they choose, they can work, be independent, have their income. At the same time, it is completely fine if they decide to be a housewife, since the man is still expected to support them. I think feminism liberated women, but didn't do the same for men. Women can be whoever they want. Men have to be men and are still bound to their role of providers.

PapaMGTOW · 2017-08-11T21:52:03+00:00

I Define Who I Am Not some shitposter

Teflon0819 · 2017-08-11T22:11:15+00:00

Technically that would make you a tradcon, not an MRA.

MRAs are just men who fight the futile battle of trying to give men some of the rights that women enjoy.

2017-08-12T00:08:57+00:00

MRA can never have the power 9000+ NFG that MGTOW embrace.
MGTOW enact and enable change in themsevles, daily. hoping to ever change others is folly.

Morb357 · 2017-08-12T01:02:23+00:00

The laws and family courts are the main problems that MRA's speak out about.

NoThirst · 2017-08-12T04:04:32+00:00

...it doesn't really matter...the genie is out of the bottle and it isn't going back. I guess I'm MGTOW as I could care less what the hell they do.

robowriter · 2017-08-12T05:16:15+00:00

The MRA thing won't work. The only thing to do to survive: mgtow.

Title	If you want women to go back to pre-1960's attitudes you're an MRA not a MGTOW
Author	The_Law_of_the_Land
Upvotes	100
Comments	93
Date	August 11, 2017 2:43 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/6t1l57/if_you_want_women_to_go_back_to_pre1960s/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW/if-you-want-women-to-go-back-to-pre-1960s.564960 https://theredarchive.com/post/564960

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