~ archived since 2018 ~

Well i got banned for.. i actually dont know

LongDongKingKongSong

March 4, 2021

21 upvotes

/r/AntiFeminists

Download the post

Want to save the post for offline use on your device? Choose one of the download options below:

PDF TXT EPUB

Post Information

Title	Well i got banned for.. i actually dont know
Author	LongDongKingKongSong
Upvotes	21
Comments	18
Date	March 4, 2021 5:28 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/AntiFeminists
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/antifeminists/comments/lxq242/well_i_got_banned_for_i_actually_dont_know/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/AntiFeminists/well-i-got-banned-for-i-actually-dont-know.768536 https://theredarchive.com/post/768536

Comments

[–]Mewster1818 19 points20 points21 points 5 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]LongDongKingKongSong[S] 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]garvcrazy 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Greedyfr00b 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ElectBody -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mewster1818 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]ElectBody -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

You do realize mental illness is something that can be fixed. No one would chose to be trans, it just brings harassment, body discomfort and costs of you want to do procedures.

Science backs it up, trans people do have brains more similar to the gender they identify as. Trans people have existed for a very very long time, since humanity started existing.

Even if it was a mental illness, why is it so important to you to ‘deny reality’. Man and woman are just social things. “Reality” isn’t if you call someone he or she or what name they use, that’s made up stuff. “Reality” isn’t what clothes someone wear.

Why does it bother people so much? People doing stuff that makes them happier. Is that so bad? Thing is, you have very very likely met many trans people in your life without noticing. Would you start calling them their birth name if you found out? If so, why? You would’ve already gotten used to their name, why go out of your way to change behavior.

Going out of your way to make someone feel better isn’t something bad, adjusting can be tricky, but at least trying a little goes a long way.

Also, some transwomen have two X chromosomes, intersex people exist.

I can agree that transwomen aren’t females, it sucks but it’s true. You can get close but not female. But, woman is just a social role we have made up, why should we gatekeep it?

[–]Mewster1818 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Dude you're making a ton of assumptions about my stance on trans people that I've never said.

For example I do know several trans people. I have no problem with them, and I don't mind using their new names and pronouns. However if they were to come to me and say "I'm a biological male" then no, I'm not going to play along. If they demand people should date them or else, that's not okay either. If they demand the ability to control how other people think or feel, again that's not okay. Yes assholes exist, but that's universally true for everyone and it's much better to learn to deal with it than demand special treatment.

90% of trans people aren't stupid, they know they're different and they acknowledge it's a mental illness. If all they want to do is go about their normal lives and learn to accept what they can't change then most people genuinely wouldn't have an issue with trans people in general. However it's the people like you who spout of total nonsense, characterize everyone who doesn't agree with you as terrible people, and demand spe ial treatment that doesn't align with reality who actually makes it harder for trans people to just be seen and treated as normal people. You're the one treating them like they're incompetent to take care of themselves and manage their own well-being, not us.

Also mental illness is almost never cured. Treated? Yes, and I can see why transition would help, but it's not a cure. Trans people have similar mental crisis episodes, like suicide, after transition as they do before. To add a different example, I have my OCD under control due to treatment but it will always be there for life. That's simply how the vast majority of mental illness is, and it us the patient's responsibility to come to terms with that and do what they need to do, not demand the world change to accommodate their every whim.

And no intersex people are not trans... they're intersex. They have a genetic abnormality, not a mental illness. As for your trans gender brain studies, those are completely inconclusive. A brain scan cannot be used to accurately determine between males and females either: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00677-x

[–]ElectBody 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

I didn’t accuse you of saying anything except what you said, the majority of my message wasn’t directed at you.

I haven’t met a single trans person who demanded people to date them or to control others feelings. You can’t force anyone to date you.

I haven’t characterized you, you seem reasonable. I said for example “why does it bother people so much”, not you, people.

I respects people stances on whatever the heck they want. Mental crisis episodes are a thing for people of any group of people. Thing is that a load of studies show that this becomes way less common when trans people are accepted by family and friends.

I never demanded the world to change. Ofc the whole world shouldn’t accommodate to 1% of people. Never said that. However, being harassed isn’t and wanting that to stop isn’t trying to control the world, it’s wanting decency.

I don’t mind people who have an issue with the rare trans people who are loud and annoying, thing is that loud and annoying people are in every group of people.

Also, yes. Intersex people can be trans, I know some who are. Being born/assigned male for example and transitioning to a woman. Intersex can mean anything, my friend for example was basically male entirely except she has a higher amount of estrogen in her body and some slight differences physically, that doesn’t make her not trans. By all other points she is trans.

All intersex people aren’t trans, some are though.

And yes the brain scan isn’t a good source and it was dumb to bring up, my point is that many studies show that trans people are happier living as the gender they feel like, why not just play along even if you don’t agree? (Not directed at anyone specific, just didn’t know how to word it)

All the trans people I know are aware they aren’t biologically the same sex matching their gender. I haven’t heard them say that stuff. But sure, if they did you don’t have to play along with that. But if they don’t bring it up, then don’t do it yourself either.

[–]Mewster1818 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Thing is, you have very very likely met many trans people in your life without noticing. Would you start calling them their birth name if you found out? If so, why? You would’ve already gotten used to their name, why go out of your way to change behavior.

You definitely did imply that I act a certain way...

Intersex is not just a hormone imbalance, it's a variety of conditions where there is a discrepancy between the external genitals and the internal genitals (the testes and ovaries), most of which are caused by genetic anomaly. There is a reason why in the last 10-15 years there has been a push to not assign or treat these conditions early/at birth anymore because it can cause need for unnecessary correction surgeries later. This isn't the same as transitioning even if the surgeries and treatment are the same.

The line of thought you're defending "trans women are women" can't be taken out of the context of how it's overwhelmingly used. It's not a saying about how we should treat people with basic manners and decency, it's an attempt to re-write the definition of being a woman, which is synonymous with being female. The whole idea that being a woman or a man is entirely a social construct is absolutely ridiculous, and only works if you're clinging to sexist stereotypes and gender roles. The very definition of woman is "an adult human female"...

And it's hard for me to believe that you've never witnessed plenty of people demanding special treatment for trans people online. Heck, people are currently arguing that trans people's feelings are more important than women having fair competitions and equal opportunities, especially in sports. Do you really think people like Hannah Mouncey are part of a fair competition for women? You tell me how that's not special treatment for the sake of her feelings over the well-being of the rest if the athletes in her sport...

[–]ElectBody 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

That was a question, not an accusation.

Thing is, definitions change. Gay meant happy a few centuries back. Nowadays I think what chromosomes you have or what genitalia you were born with, is irrelevant to being called a woman or not.

As for sports, I’m not educated enough on sports to say anything. I just know that everyone is way different biologically. Height for example in basketball is an advantage. While yes, I’m tall, way taller than I’d like, I’m average by WNBA standards. Hormones and blocking testosterone makes a large difference, after that there are only some extremely slight differences that could differ between ciswomen as well. I’m not educated enough but honestly, ‘men’ aren’t ‘pretending’ to be women to win sports. It just results in harassment anyway.

Also, there was a thing with someone getting a fractured skull in mma. It got a lot of attention. Not saying you’re part of this but. It’s always a hard thing cause, if a trans woman and a cis woman with the exact same base strength and same chance to win. If the trans woman won, most people would say it’s because she’s trans, not cause she might’ve been better.

It’s very hard to ever know what’s because of them being trans or what’s because of skill and practice. That’s why trans sports are so hard. The problem with the fractured skull thing is that, it’s not an uncommon injury in mma.

[–]Mewster1818 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

The skull fracture thing was a big deal because Fallon Fox withheld the fact that she was transgender and robbed her opponents of being able to make informed consent to the fight. It also wasn't a small difference, Fox had the advantage of full male puberty prior to competing as a woman. Her competitors commented before knowing that she was trabs that they had never felt so physically overpowered in a fight before... do I understand why she chose to hide it? Yes, however I still find it inexcusable because ultimately she put her competitors in a situation where they were grievously harmed without them having the ability to fully consenting to what happened.

The reason why people are skeptical about MTF athletes is because they vastly over perform in the women's division as a group. We're not talking like small differences that come down to skill or practice, we're talking about a group of people who had the genetic and developmental advantages of being male. You can't erase bone structure, fetal development, childhood development, muscle reactions times, etc just by using HRT years later. Even assuming that we arrested the development of the child before puberty, there are many aspects that are going to be an innate, and unfair, advantage.

I'm not against them competing in coed divisions or even having their own divisions... but the activists don't want that because it means we're not treating them the same as other women or men, which could hurt their feelings. But the reality is they are not like normal women or men.

Just because you don't want to believe the definition doesn't mean the definition is wrong. Trans women are by definition not women, that's a reality that should be accepted. And just because it's a reality that makes them uncomfortable, doesn't mean that I'm advocating for anyone to treat them without basic human decency. Having a mental illness is an exercise in discomfort... it is the individual's responsibility to manage their own discomfort, not demand the world conform to their emotions.

[–]ElectBody 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Oh, sorry for mentioning that then, I didn’t know she withheld it, she should’ve mentioned it, since it’s a violent sport. If it was like a marathon it could be fine to mention after and the judges could decide if it was legitimate.

I do agree the subject needs more research before a decision can be made though. For now it might be best for cis and trans women to not compete together. Though, multiple studies say trans women should have no major advantages, not sure though, probably depends on the sport. In for example, gymnastics, not sure it would matter.

Don’t say all activists don’t want that. I’m an activist, I think your statement is fair. Before more research is done I think keeping it in different divisions is fair.

I will say though, I’m weaker than many cis women. My mom easily beats me in arm wrestling and is stronger in general. Lost to my other friend who’s also my age the other day in arm wrestling, I couldn’t do anything, she was simply stronger.

Trust me, managing discomfort is something everyone has to work on. But honestly. Definitions change, I doubt it’ll be classed as that in a 100 years. What’s so inherently wrong about calling someone a woman when they identify as one? Most transwomen look like women and act like them.

Ofc you can have different opinions, that okay. I’m male, I’m aware.

Though, when you are perceived as female by society, cause you look and act like one, aka passing. Then you have the same experience as ciswomen in almost every aspect. Being able to have a community and stuff is important.

I know this is besides the point and you didn’t say anything against this but. Many people say that transwomen can’t be women cause they didn’t experience the bad parts of womanhood as a child. I came out at 13 and I’ve been able to relate to everything my friends have said that sucks about being a girl.

Idk, I believe in a mix between science but also trying to make society the best for everyone involved. Maybe changing the definition for woman/man is worth it for the sake of trans people feeling healthier, it’s not like people have to go out of their way because of it.

[–]dethish 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]LongDongKingKongSong[S] 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Waste_Refrigerator65 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

that sub is basically just a hate sub for men, lgbtq really acts like their suppressed when everyone defends them, so they attack all men and act like straight men are trash but then act like their suppressed, its the same thing with women, men are always the one defending them but they meet one guy thats a man thats being rude, and suddenly all men are like this, women and ppl like this talk about being “suppressed” and “generalizing” when the only one doing these things are them, they think they are so much better then men, “you have to be confident” “funny” “intresting” “financially stable” “tall”, their so full of themselves, its no wonder men only want sex when their such egotistical toxic disgusting pieces of shit. And lgbtq ppl also act like little princesses and get everyone to attack you if you disagree with them, or say something wrong, so much for “freedom of speech” or ”equality” but if they disagree with you, they all defend them, and attack you.

[–]CookieFar4331 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]LongDongKingKongSong[S] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link